New Stern in Mono?? WTF!
alive-cds
backwards?? What does anybody else think? Granted there isn't much
stereo separation anyway with the speakers only 22 inches apart, but
this is 2006! You can buy an iPod shuffle for $90 and it's in stereo,
but a $4K pinball machine isn't?? I just don't get it. One of Stern's
weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by coming up with
mono sound. The only thing in my house that in mono is my clock radio
and even that I only set to buzzer and never listen to the radio
anymore.
Lloyd Olson
other pins and you have trouble even hearing it, stereo or not. LTG :)
"alive-cds" <aliv...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1138162233.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
frenchy
pinballs, most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference. I
assume my LOTR is supposed to be in stereo, if it's using the old sound
system, but I sure can't tell. Or isn't it? Does anybody have a Stern
or Data East where the stereo just stands out and would really be
missed? I can't recall myself playing one of these games and thinking,
wow, I can really hear that separation. If stereo systems depended on
speakers that were only about a foot apart, it would have flopped in
the 50's.
<<One of Stern's weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by
coming up with mono sound.>>>
All we've been hearing around here is 'make it sound like DCS!" I
don't know if this does now, but DCS ain't stereo.
gpc...@yahoo.com
Stern needs the home market
A new system with better audio would make the game that much more
attractive
What is the point of a "new system" if it doesn't do much of anything
better than the "old system" ... We've been hearing about this system
for years and what does it end up doing?
I am really bearish on the future of Stern Pinball
I think the future is going to be a step back into the past with lots
of great parts getting made up by Nappa and others that will allow us
to re-build the classic WMS games
I wouldn't buy another Stern
I used to really enjoy Elvis on location, but in a home environment, it
just feels so clunky
For just a little bit more money, CH can build you a "brand new" WMS
game
Gary.Arizona
kirb
AG&C games were in stereo and they sucked sound wise. It just wasn't
worth the added hardware.
I'd settle for higher quality sound boards that allow speaker upgrades
(you know they won't put in good speakers). An RCA jack line out on the
sound board would be SWEET so you could add clean sounding amps, but
that would be asking a lot.
Putting the final touches on the amped TZ....
Kirb
gpc...@yahoo.com
I thought the DMD would be in color
Sound would be better
More memory for better graphics and sound
It's early, but I see and hear none of that
Gary.Arizona
flynnibus
better sound with more space for sounds is where the money is. I mean,
does anyone care that NASCAR is stereo or not? no they care that the
music sound track sounds like ass.
And the sound system isn't the only thing for the 'new system'... sheez
give it some time already to get the details.
Or OMG.. it could be things.. like.. CHEAPER.. or gasp.. more reliable?
Yes, what a total waste this new system is because it doesn't have
stereo audio! Come on.. stop focusing on the minor things and think
bigger picture.
mnpinball
looking pinball machines of the 90's. The stereo effects are real nice.
Jason.
Andrew
"frenchy" <mf10...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1138163436.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Todd Tuckey
Have all of you forgotten the fabulous true full stereo sound of Laser Wars,
Time Machine, Phantom of the Opera, etc????? The early Data East games had
brilliant quality full stereo with those angled speakers...the sound sells
many Data East games for us---WHEN THE SOUND CAN BE TURNED UP to be
appreciated!! Todd from TNT Amusements
mnpinball
25th, Guns N Roses all have awesome stereo sound. I am a die hard
Williams guy, but I have to say Data East put some nice sounding pins
on the market.
Jason.
milt
>
> Sorry people, on the negative rant against the troll... I tried hard
> not to byte but I am extremely Happy That Stern is around
> and I am very supportive of their work, yes they have had some
> missus/duds but they have 2 top ten hits and I see more along the way.
>
I have to agree. I'm glad that Stern is still around also, at least
someone is still making pins. If/when Stern goes, there will be no one
making pins anymore and that would be the end of the new pinball market!
Mike
Nothing better than hearing "Secret Cervix, in digtal stereo." :)
-M
Daniel Tonks
> sound system, but I sure can't tell.
LOTR, TSPP, et al are mono. As far as I know the last DE/Stern game to use
stereo sound was Godzilla. The board design itself supports up to three
amplifiers - left/right/subwoofer - but since Godzilla the subwoofer
channel's components were costed out.
Right now in games like LOTR the left channel drives the two backbox
speakers and the right channel drives the subwoofer (it could also be the
opposite, I forget). Theoretically this would allow them to put different
sounds to the subwoofer versus the backbox speakers, however I do not know
if their sound engineers ever actually did this.
Hopefully the new design was *created* with the versatility to use more
channels, and they just opted to not do so yet.
- Dan
Manic
P2K had stereo...?
--
*Because John Shields HATES to see people's collections:*
M.M, C.V, N.G.G, T.O.M, J.Y, N.F, J.D, P.M, J.M,
Shad*w, C.F.T.B.L, A.F.M, F.T, W.W, L.O.T.R, T.S.P.P
"alive-cds" <aliv...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1138162233.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CornCob
I guess you'll have to wait and see what Wayne offers with his 4.1
speaker sound system. I don't know how important the sound system
really is? I play with the WMS tables all of the time in Pinmame and
the balance levels in Windows are bias to the left as I've only 1
speaker inside my computer. It does sound that bad and doesn't seem to
detract from the game (IMHO).
Smart new things from Stern's boardset now include USB firmware
upgrades. Now thats something I'll not miss on my WMS machines;
Pissing around with my EEPROM programmer, mixing ROM images and
wondering why it's not working.
12brightness levels (including off) on the DMD. Who needs LEDs when
Sterns crew work there magic with what we've got.
Coin battery in socket like on PC motherboard. Not like those heavy,
large surface area AA batterys which leak on the PCB as used by the
other manufacturers.
I guess we've got to remember that not all changes to the machine
design are for us as it's easy to see that Stern will save money with
this new design if only by virtue of the fact that theres now less
PCB's to make.
Picture of the new boardset in action:
http://tinyurl.com/bnc67
Ping
nomad
speaker sound system
You're kidding about this right? We'll have the ability to have a
pinball machine wet-wired into our brains by the time D'wayne produces
a pinball machine;)
nomad
CornCob
By the sound of some on this post a few have already given up on Stern
just because his new boardset may or maynot be in Mono. Who else is
making a machine for you guys who don't like Mono Sterns?
BTW: I emailed Wayne recently asking if I'll see him at ATEI in London
but no reply as yet and seeing as the show's already started I guess
not. I remember in one of his old posts he said he wants to attend;
Seeing as his 1st machine is to be released this year according to the
publicity on his website then it would have been this year's show he
should have gone to.
Ping
Abby Normal
thing! :-)
MarcelG
(multichannel digital playback). That system was monaural, and it was
the bomb. I would assume Stern just needs to install better good audio
output components? I'm pretty sure the audio designers have been
working to the hardware's limits.
Someone mentioned that early Data East games had awesome stereo sound.
Probably with headphones! I played them many a times and to be honest I
could not make out the stereo hardly. It's a cool noticeable effect in
P2K though (DCS2 audio) since the speakers where staring right at you.
Oh heck.. just bring the old pre-DCS FM chipset back.. lol
Marcel
Eric Schmitt
I dont know if Sega did, mine only had one speaker, I dont think Stern has
done a single Stereo machine yet, correct me if I'm wrong. LOTR is not.
--Eric
Eric Schmitt
--Eric
TheKorn
news:1138162233.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Back when this board was in development, here's what I told Stern:
* If you give me the choice of double the sample resolution (i.e. 16 or
8 bit) vs. double the sample rate, give me double the sample rate.
(you'll HEAR that on location)
* If you give me the choice between stereo with half the samples and
mono with twice the samples, *duh* take mono with twice the samples!
* If you give me the choice between stereo with crappy speakers, and
mono with slightly upgraded speakers, take the slightly upgraded
speakers.
So there, you can all crucify me now. :)
What I think is hilarious is that nobody has thought through the
ramifications of having the DMD power supply *seperate* from
*everything*...
...almost as if it was tacked on...
...now why would Stern do that? hMMMmmMMmmMmmM?
(sorry to beat people with the clue stick, but COME ON PEOPLE!! THINK!!)
TheKorn
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
You're nuts. The sound *quality* on GnR is *abysmal*! In terms of
fidelity, it sounds worse than an AM radio.
In terms of sound *content*, it's good. But in terms of *fidelity*, I've
heard more accurate reproductions come from squeaking my schoes across the
floor.
kirb
Your inside sources failed you again.
Kirb
John Wart, jr
well, that sounds cool but is the technology there? What is the cost? I'm
excited about TOPS being built in, and the ability to upgrade the firmware
through a thumb drive. A 2 board design is nice. It has its drawbacks, but a
larger board set does too.
Components on the whitestar boards were likely becoming obselete. That seems
to be the main driver of the new board set.
These boards probably cost less, too. Stern is saving money this way, and
having a better chance of staying afloat. Nothing wrong there!
--
http://www.myhomegameroom.com
<gpc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138165579.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
John Wart, jr
OUCH! Stop it Korn, that smarts
I got the hint, OK? :)
Dave Pauk
Aww Kirb, you must know that with the constant barrage of phonecalls
and emails Gary gets from his "inside sources", he's bound to get mixed
up every now and then ;-)
With all those calls and emails, I don't know how he even finds the
time to post here....
=)
Koz Pinlicious
TheKorn wrote:
> "alive-cds" <aliv...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:1138162233.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > So the new Stern pinball machines will be in Mono! Isn't that a step
> > backwards?? What does anybody else think? Granted there isn't much
> > stereo separation anyway with the speakers only 22 inches apart, but
> > this is 2006! You can buy an iPod shuffle for $90 and it's in stereo,
> > but a $4K pinball machine isn't?? I just don't get it. One of Stern's
> > weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by coming up with
> > mono sound. The only thing in my house that in mono is my clock radio
> > and even that I only set to buzzer and never listen to the radio
> > anymore.
>
> Back when this board was in development, here's what I told Stern:
>
> * If you give me the choice of double the sample resolution (i.e. 16 or
> 8 bit) vs. double the sample rate, give me double the sample rate.
> (you'll HEAR that on location)
>
> * If you give me the choice between stereo with half the samples and
> mono with twice the samples, *duh* take mono with twice the samples!
>
> * If you give me the choice between stereo with crappy speakers, and
> mono with slightly upgraded speakers, take the slightly upgraded
> speakers.
>
> So there, you can all crucify me now. :)
i am just glad stern listened to you at all, i mean, god forbid they
DIDN'T do what you told them to do. just glad you had the final word on
the whole -sound- decision making process. if the game sounds like
shit, i'll be sure to egg your house next time i am in chicago since it
is all your fault ;-)
Pinlicious ( ...there is no spoon.)
TheKorn
news:1138199781.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>> So there, you can all crucify me now. :)
>
> i am just glad stern listened to you at all, i mean, god forbid they
> DIDN'T do what you told them to do. just glad you had the final word on
> the whole -sound- decision making process. if the game sounds like
> shit, i'll be sure to egg your house next time i am in chicago since it
> is all your fault ;-)
I didn't say that at all. But they did take a bunch of my suggestions, so
yeah, I feel good about that. They definitely didn't take all of them,
that's for sure.
ldnayman
it isn't in stereo and nobody cares (except when they are trying to
convince us that DE's Secret Service is a good game).
frenchy
stereo since they weren't even Stern yet - Godzilla? - then whining
about it now sounds like a bunch of bunk. It sure doesn't sound like
something that has been missed or to be crying about it being gone,
since it apparently wasn't there to begin with the last 4 or 5 years.
Brian Smith
theatre sound in, or dolby 5.1 with environmental effects, screw the cost.
At $4000 US for the machine, I'm sure we're willing to pay the extra money
for something that sounds 'good' as opposed to what they have been packaging
lately (Nascar).
"Koz Pinlicious" <pinli...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1138199781.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
TheKorn
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
??? I didn't tell them to make it stereo, I told them NOT to make it
stereo! My exact words were that it was a "waste of sample space".
Besides, the old DE's weren't really in full stereo anyway. IIRC, the only
things that could differentiate between the speakers were the *synth* chip,
not the DACs.
frenchy
As complex as these pin systems have gotten, stereo would be on the
bottom of my list of things to worry about while trying to design a fun
game without bugs.
frenchy
side speakers, the speakers are a foot apart, a woofer that has to
point at the floor underneath you. Sort of like having a color display
on a cellphone and wondering how good HDTV would look on it.
Koz Pinlicious
just yanking your chain korn ;-)
who took your suggestions and what other ones did you make that they
ignored?
does anyone have any info on the flippers? was there ANYTHING changed
that would make them better?
MarcelG
gpc...@yahoo.com
it makes Stern's costs cheaper?
That is a different way of looking at things
I am only interested in a new system if it does things dramatically
better
Otherwise, who cares ...
Gary.Arizona
frenchy
flynnibus
Who cares? how about people that want Pinball machines being made??
If pinball isn't profitable, they will not be able to sustain
themselves and then we have NO new machines.
So yes.. lets ignore important concepts like sustainability. What a
pure genius you are
Please make sure you personally send all this feedback to Gary Stern
via your flury of emails and phone calls you are buried under
TheKorn
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I hear HD AM radio is in the works..
Already deployed! Head on over to Naples if you want to hear DAM.
(digital AM... my "pet" name for '''hd''' (note the TRIPLE QUOTES around
HD!!) AM.)
http://www.ibiquity.com/hdradio/hdradio_hdstations.htm
...not that there are a lot of people who actually have the equipment to
*listen* to HD radio... yet. :)
Ron Donohue
produce the board set (a requried element of the game) at a reduced
cost, it gives them the ability to keep the selling price down or
allocate dollars to others parts of the game, such as improved
components, extra features and so forth. Perhaps the designers will
end up with a few more dollars to allocate on the playfield, higher
resolution graphics can be supported and so forth. For me, it is
always about game play, but I think that reallocating dollars from
Board costs to other parts of the game may produce changes that are
appreciated by both operators and home users. I know that keeping the
prices down seems to be important to most potential buyers.
I may be in the minority, but it seems to me that being able to update
the game ROMS without burning new chips is a pretty big improvement.
Ron
Karl
alive-cds wrote:
> So the new Stern pinball machines will be in Mono! Isn't that a step
> backwards??
I say as long as it has a kickin' (as the kids say) or bumpin' (as the
brothas say) sub,. then stereo seems like it's sort of just gimmicky. I
mean, it's one of those things that sounds better to say you have it
than it actually sounds in this case.
Lose the stereo, trade it for a nice big sub, amp and crossover. "More
bang for the buck".
Karl.
TheKorn
news:KqydnYfkuK1DDEre...@adelphia.com:
> hmmmm based on TheKorn, I think you should've just told them to put
> true THZ theatre sound in, or dolby 5.1 with environmental effects,
> screw the cost. At $4000 US for the machine, I'm sure we're willing to
> pay the extra money for something that sounds 'good' as opposed to
> what they have been packaging lately (Nascar).
Why?
I could have also told them to stud the lockdown bar with diamonds; screw
the cost!
But the point is, why bother? The speakers are close enough together and
far enough away from the player that unless you're really *looking* to hear
stereo out of them, you're not going to. Heck, P2K had the speakers almost
a full foot forward of where they are on a Stern, and most people STILL
don't know they were in stereo! (Despite RFM doing some ultra-wide stereo
pans to almost show off that they had stereo!)
So instead, put the money where it'll do the most good. People notice
sound quotes, and at least some people notice sound quality. So it makes
sense to put the money there, where it'll help *sell* the game!
kirb
flynnibus wrote:
> Who cares? how about people that want Pinball machines being made??
> If pinball isn't profitable, they will not be able to sustain
> themselves and then we have NO new machines.
Gary Cubeta has sworn off Stern and predicts that they won't make more
than 3 new games after WPT.
He doesn't have the balls to make a bet to that fact, but he sure does
spout off this nonsense constantly.
Kirb
stom...@gmail.com
TheKorn wrote:
> "alive-cds" <aliv...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
> news:1138162233.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> ramifications of having the DMD power supply *seperate* from
> *everything*...
>
> ...almost as if it was tacked on...
>
>
> ...now why would Stern do that? hMMMmmMMmmMmmM?
>
> (sorry to beat people with the clue stick, but COME ON PEOPLE!! THINK!!)
probably because the DMD high power board didn't change from the old
system???. it's always been a separate board just a fancy cover on
top now...
TheKorn
>
> TheKorn wrote:
>> "Koz Pinlicious" <pinli...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:1138199781.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> So there, you can all crucify me now. :)
>> >
>> > i am just glad stern listened to you at all, i mean, god forbid
>> > they DIDN'T do what you told them to do. just glad you had the
>> > final word on the whole -sound- decision making process. if the
>> > game sounds like shit, i'll be sure to egg your house next time i
>> > am in chicago since it is all your fault ;-)
>>
>> I didn't say that at all. But they did take a bunch of my
>> suggestions, so yeah, I feel good about that. They definitely didn't
>> take all of them, that's for sure.
>
> just yanking your chain korn ;-)
>
> who took your suggestions and what other ones did you make that they
> ignored?
You know I don't name drop like that. If it really *matters*, I'll tell
you via email.
My suggestion was to use mpeg4 encoding for the sounds, so you could
squeeze as many samples as possible into the same RAM space. Further, my
suggestion was not to spend the development time writing their own sound
routines, but rather take GPL routines and modify them.
AFAIK, neither route was taken. That's their call; no offense was taken
by it.
(I also suggested strobing the switch matrix out of sequence to reduce
capacitance coupling between the switch lines, but I don't know if they
took that idea or not.)
> does anyone have any info on the flippers? was there ANYTHING changed
> that would make them better?
Lots of loose talk, but I don't know anything on that subject.
kirb
Or at least make it easy to ADD these items...
Kirb
TheKorn
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Did someone say that we should be excited about the new system because
> it makes Stern's costs cheaper?
DUH! Yes!
Every dollar that you DON'T spend on X means that's another dollar you
CAN spend on Y. So if you don't do stereo sound, you can instead have
another playfield toy. That's how the economics *work*!
Besides, if you increase the cost, then that decreases the customer base.
Econ 101!
(yes, I know the counter point, and I'm sure you'll take it.)
> I am only interested in a new system if it does things dramatically
> better
>
> Otherwise, who cares ...
Exactly right. You don't play the "system" that the game is based on.
You only perhiperally (via dots and sounds) interact with it.
In other words, the content is king, not what delivers the content.
Nwojedi
and addicting, that's what's going to matter. One or two speakers
isnt' going to make or break it...especially on location which you can
barely hear it half of the time anyway. I think 95% of pins I play on
location are turned so low, you have to lean into the machine to
actually make anything out. Location owners probably get sick of the
sounds after while and have the distributer turn them down. For home
use, you want better sound. But I don't think we buy most of the pins
yet.
BTW KORN, hilarious stuff on your DVD. I personally like the complex
set designs. :)
Fred Kemper
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
=================================
i'm happy-talky-talking tina, here's your extra ball
sound is mono thow. even thow the speakers are so close, you can still
tell stereo sound compared to mono. its crisper/ more treblish and
lower bass tones. alot more too it that just being "seperated"
compare am to fm, same thing.
TheKorn
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> all the sound issues dont' really amount to shit. If the game is fun
> and addicting, that's what's going to matter. One or two speakers
> isnt' going to make or break it...especially on location which you can
> barely hear it half of the time anyway. I think 95% of pins I play on
> location are turned so low, you have to lean into the machine to
> actually make anything out. Location owners probably get sick of the
> sounds after while and have the distributer turn them down. For home
> use, you want better sound. But I don't think we buy most of the pins
> yet.
True, to a point. More to the point, if you're in a situation where you
*can* hear the sound, you don't want to be embarassed by it, a la NASCAR.
Besides, if you have double (or better!) the sample space, then hopefully
the game's sounds won't get *that* annoying. (One can only hope!)
> BTW, hilarious stuff on your DVD. I personally like the complex set
> designs. :)
Haha, thanks! Well, the shooting budget was nonexistent, so had to kind
of use what was around...
...and what's around? Why, I have a ton of them thar new fangled pinball
machines! :)
TheKorn
<who...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:1138214580.698608.46210
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> all you have to do is connect a stereo encoder.
*bARf* Fake stereo encoders are worse than a genuine mono signal, IMHO.
> that is odd that the
> sound is mono thow. even thow the speakers are so close, you can still
> tell stereo sound compared to mono. its crisper/ more treblish and
> lower bass tones. alot more too it that just being "seperated"
> compare am to fm, same thing.
Umm, you're comparing apples and oranges there. If done correctly, if
you have a mono signal and feed it to two identical speakers, it'll sound
identical. (not theoretical; has been done to death!)
What I think may be confusing you is that WMS games have a (crappy)
crossover built into them. So what happens is they don't feed the same
signal into the left and right panel speakers, so you can notice a
difference in the left/right output if you listen for it even though the
game is mono. Not the same thing as true stereo.
runner1717
Crappy 4 color screened playfields that wear at the drop of a hat?
Crappy 4 color huge dot resolution screening on the plastics?
Crappy 4 color huge dot resolution screening on the cabinets?
Frequent maintenance problems?
Displays that go bad way to quick?
Weak flippers that are of such bad design to the point where you can't make
half the shots after awhile?
Cheap black leg, rails and that funky lockdown bar?
Now we have cheap MONO sound?
I know it's not the 90's and Bally/WMS is gone. See what happens when there
is no competition? I just can't bring myself to cheer on mediocrity.........
Mike
frenchy
Centaur. Does anybody make some low-cost gizmo that the speaker output
could be fed into from a game, get reverbed and then fed back to the
speakers? Might be fun to have something like that to play with on old
and newer games. Granted with the larger amount of sounds coming out
of modern games compared to a Centaur you wouldn't want to have the
reverb turned up very much but it could be cool. Some games I think
would be good with this... Blackout... Black Hole... Haunted House
(make it spookier with an echo like an old haunted house!)
Frenchy
frenchy
I am not seeing them wear out. Maybe if they switch to those late 80's
early 90s horseshit Williams playfield where all the insert lettering
disappeared after one year on route they'll have something.
<<Frequent maintenance problems? >>
There still more reliable than Willams or Gottliebs.
<<Displays that go bad way to quick?>>
They don't make the displays.
<<Now we have cheap MONO sound?>>
If I can find a post where you or anybody else EVER referred to any
Williams/Bally/Gottlieb as being only in "cheap mono" I'll die a happy
man.
ldnayman
frenchy wrote:
> <<Crappy 4 color screened playfields that wear at the drop of a hat? >>
>
> I am not seeing them wear out. Maybe if they switch to those late 80's
> early 90s horseshit Williams playfield where all the insert lettering
> disappeared after one year on route they'll have something.
>
Frenchy why do you always respond to criticism of Stern by trashing 20
year old Williams games? I don't get it, it's completely irrelevant.
kin...@aol.com
Stern's new system. Our new game, WPT (my design) is the first pinball
on the new system.
The system is a huge improvement over the old system, you just don't
know it yet. Here's the highlights:
The game never misses switch hits. You get every point and far fewer
disappointments while playing. This will be noticed, but not by all,
simply because that's the way any pinball machine should work.
Anyone, anywhere can download WPT updates, anytime. Just plug in a
flash rom, press a few buttons, unplug the flash rom and the new
software is installed. The software will be available to download
online. This is a huge advance. No more trips to the distrib for
eproms. Saves operators and owners' money, gas and time.
The system has vastly expanded memory which in turn allows us to create
far MORE of everything, rules, DMD effects, light effects, sounds,
speech, music, and far better and smoother interaction between each of
the above components. The difference is staggering and will be
immediately noticed on WPT.
With the system memory expanded, it allows us to create far BETTER
rules, DMD effects, light effects, sounds, speech, music and physical
action on the playfield. Processing speed seems to be faster, ball
response is faster & sharper, and the play is crisp and smooth. Again,
the difference is absolutely noticeable on WPT. Nothing is skimped-on.
We don't have to eliminate frames from dmd effects, or limit anything
in software. Speech, sound, and music are far better because we are
recording and playing back at higher rates. None of this has been true
to WPT's degree on any system in the past.
The sound system is remarkably better. I touched on reasons why it is
much higher quality, but the system actually working in WPT is
spectacular. Everyone will notice the difference, and I will be
astounded if anyone says they don't like it. Of course, it didn't hurt
that Chris Granner has produced his finest sound package in years, in
both technical and musical terms. I also knew what I wanted to hear
and feel while playing WPT, and he delivered in spades. Keith has had
his input as well, and his timing and sound choreography are superb.
Fidelity is far superior. Crisp highs and big bass. I am slowly going
deaf, but I can hear what's going on in this game far better than any
other, any time... Come to think of it, Korn's BK2K might be the
exception!!
TOPS is included in every WPT. The self-contained tournament system
outputs to the DMD or you can purchase the back-box-top optional large
colored-dot display. Press a few buttons, plug in a switch, and
*Viola'*..any WPT is instantly TOPS ready.
WPT contains multiple languages and multilingual speech in it's memory.
It may help popularize our pins, and we have high hopes for a broader
player base, especially our Spanish-speaking friends. This should be
important to anyone who loves pinball. Expansion of our player base is
key to the health and well-being of pinball, and it's continued
production. It's a great piece of work by Lonnie Ropp.
Every fuse has an LED associated with it, and you can see a blown fuse
at a glance.
No more diodes on coils. I had to live down being famous for putting
the most diodes on backwards of anyone in engineering for years. Glad
they are gone...
I have probably left some things out, but these are the bullet points.
The system isn't stereo, because true stereo means double memory, and
the difference while playing a stereo game is negligible. It has been
tried and tested at Williams, and the truth is, no one cares. There
has never been enough separation between the speakers to fully utilize
stereo. Stereo has never added anything to the coinbox. Good sound
quality and content absolutely adds to the coinbox!!
Lyman Sheats is the champion of the new system, and his work has been
tireless and excellent. Not only is his operating system working very
well; he has created some major improvements in diagnostics and
countless other areas. Most players will never see or appreciate what
he has done in this area, but operators and techs will. Very
importantly, Lyman has been the hardware watchdog, making sure that the
electronics work well and give the best performance of any pinball
system, ever. He has succeeded. Only a few people on rgp might grasp
what it takes to make a new pinball system, (nearly 2-1/2 years of
Lyman's work), especially a system as great as this. Lyman has made a
huge contribution to PINBALL with this system.
Lyman, Keith Johnson, Lonnie, and others have worked like dogs to make
this system great. Lyman has written a completely new operating
system, and it is a beautiful thing. All the programmers had to learn
this new language, and it's my perception that for Keith, it has been
like learning Mandarin in one year with someone busily changing many
word's definitions at the same time as developing a remarkably fun
pinball machine.
Keith's work in this area has been tireless and diligent, and extremely
creative. Keith has been the system guinea pig, finding bugs trying
out Lyman's stuff and has worked closely with Lyman to prove out the
system. He's made a great ruleset that is fun and very original while
accomodating guys like me who don't play that well. (Incidently, Keith
has been instrumental in making WPT my personal favorite to play since
ST:TNG. He's intelligent and very talented, and WPT is probably his
best work. The rules are deep, plentiful and he is writing more rules
as I type this!!! He has been responsive to input as we all have been
on this game, making a very special pinball machine. Working with
Keith has been one of the most fun pinball project experiences in my
career. He never backs down or cheaps-out with his effort. His total
focus is that of a seasoned pinball professional, knowing that
everything he does targets making players happy and satified. His
ruleset is open-ended. It will be tough to master everything he has
created. WPT isn't going to get boring anytime soon.)
Stern Pinball is alive and well both here in Melrose Park, and *here*
in our hearts. We have a bright future, and the new system is a part
of that future. The Stern team has worked very hard to make the best
pinball machine possible. Everyone from Gary Stern to the factory
workers is dedicated to making good pinball machines that are
profitable, fun, and entertaining. The company is small, and it is
hard to hide incompetence. What's left is a hardcore group of industry
professionals with long histories in coin-biz lore and success. I am
proud of WPT. I think you will find that WPT has a nice solid feel
that you might appreciate. I will say no more, because it isn't my
place to tout my design.
I am not posting this to be defensive about our system or WPT. The
product and system speak for themselves.
I am posting this because your grossly unfounded criticism before
seeing, understanding, or hearing the system is unacceptable on an
information level and based on wildly inaccurate data. Should anyone
take your post(s) seriously, I am merely establishing the truth.
I do not speak for Lyman, Keith or any other person here at Stern, but
I am pretty sure they will do nothing more than chuckle when they read
your post. As always, it is hard to take your posts seriously, because
you spew misinformation frequently and infamously. This is a sad state
of affairs, and deserves my rebuttal at least this once. I truly
believe many rgp'ers are rejoicing that I call you on your repeated
spreading of disinformation. This kind of behavior detracts from
pinball, and is especially harmful to people new to the hobby who may
take your data at face value. Is this your intention? I was wondering
if I might ask you to stop posting disinformation. Will you please
stop, Gary?
It's been said before, but this is my version:
Every one of us is entitled to our opinions and the right to post
anything we want, but we all might keep in mind that the internet has
provided each of us with the ability to look like fools as often as we
like, before an audience of millions, for a millenium.
Regards,
Steve Ritchie
gpc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> The game should be in stereo
>
> Stern needs the home market
>
> A new system with better audio would make the game that much more
> attractive
>
> What is the point of a "new system" if it doesn't do much of anything
> better than the "old system" ... We've been hearing about this system
> for years and what does it end up doing?
>
> I am really bearish on the future of Stern Pinball
>
> I think the future is going to be a step back into the past with lots
> of great parts getting made up by Nappa and others that will allow us
> to re-build the classic WMS games
>
> I wouldn't buy another Stern
>
> I used to really enjoy Elvis on location, but in a home environment, it
> just feels so clunky
>
> For just a little bit more money, CH can build you a "brand new" WMS
> game
>
> Gary.Arizona
pinsane
in line for a movie, and is forced to listen to a blowhard wax on
authoritatively about Marshall McLuhan's view of the media, produces
McLuhan who says "I heard what you were saying. You know nothing of my
work."
"Boy, if life were only like this"--Woody Allen.
Thanks Mr. Ritchie for your well presented comments.
steve SDTM
Lloyd Olson
<kin...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1138224788....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Ron Donohue
Thank you very much for sharing all of this information in a classy and
articulate manner. Your thoughtful and infomative response is a great
counterpoint to unfounded speculation and guessing, which we see all
too often on this forum. I also greatly appreciate the manner in which
you posted, providing facts and concrete examples. I have always found
fact based responses like you made infinitely more convincing and
preferable to "opinions" not grounded in fact or experience. Everyone
is entitled to an opinion, but I would be furious if my work were
questioned in a permanent public forum by someone who had not seen or
used that work. My hat is off to you for your civility, which I am not
sure I could have matched..
I have never bought a NIB machine, but listening to your description,
it sounds like WPT may be a well deserved exception. I look forward to
playing the game and feeling/seeing the difference. Then, I will be
able to make a reasonable purchase decision.
Congratulations to you and your colleagues, particularly Lyman and
Keith, on the Herculean effort you made. Only time will tell how
players respond to the changes, but I for one am excited about a new
pin for the first itme in several years. Thank you for that, if for
nothing else.
Ron
king...@aol.com wrote:
> Gary, a few things need to be cleared up for you and others about
> Stern's new system. Our new game, WPT (my design) is the first pinball
> on the new system.
>
> The system is a huge improvement over the old system, you just don't
> know it yet. Here's the highlights:
>
> The game never misses switch hits. You get every point and far fewer
> disappointments while playing. This will be noticed, but not by all,
> simply because that's the way any pinball machine should work.
>
> Anyone, anywhere can download WPT updates, anytime. Just plug in a
> flash rom, press a few buttons, unplug the flash rom and the new
> software is installed. The software will be available to download
> online. This is a huge advance. No more trips to the distrib for
> eproms. Saves operators and owners' money, gas and time.
>
> The system has vastly expanded memory which in turn allows us to create
> far MORE of everything, rules, DMD effects, light effects, sounds,St
pinballjim
operating on, I highly doubt that any money saved on these boards is
going to be used towards other aspects of the machines. While the
capabilities of enhanced sounds, graphics, and rules are great - the
reality is that there's only so much time to work on a game and only so
much money to pay people to do it.
To be frank, I think the reality will be more like, "we didn't have to
remove anything" versus "there's tons of additional depth and polish".
All this being said, playing this game for the first time is definetely
going to be one of the highlights of my year.
frenchy
20
year old Williams games? I don't get it, it's completely irrelevant.
>>>
It doesn't have anything to do with it being a Williams or being 20
years old. It's called perspective. Someone says Stern playfields
wear out like crazy, which they don't, and I point out a horrid example
of what real wear REALLY is. Probably the worst example in history, I
don't care if they were Williams or Gencos, they stunk. Do you have
worst example of playfields having huge wear problems in the middle of
the playfield, other than say an EBD that had 200,000 games on it? I
don't see ebay loaded with insert label kits for Sterns or Data Easts,
do you? And when do you ever complain about something on a Stern
without comparing it to a Williams?
Well that, and I know it pisses you off ; )
kirb
Steve, once again thank you for taking the time to clear the air, point
out some great improvements, and give back to pinball even more than
you do everyday. It's not a secret that I dig your games.
I would also like to personally thank you for correcting Gary. I always
get a chuckle when people in the know give him a big STFU. I think this
post pretty much kills the speculation in this thread.
I can't wait to try out the new system and WPT.
Kirb
(thanks for 1/2 of my modern collection, BTW...)
PT
Thank you so much for your expert behind the scenes information. Seems
like there is more of a buzz over this game than any other in recent
memory. I've been thinking this will be my first NIB purchase. I'll
probably go "all in" on one soon.
The new system looks great. So many improvements! What about the
flippers? Any change there?
Thanks for the well-deserved body slam on Gary. Maybe he'll go back
into his hole for a few months.
John
P.S. Think I'll go play a game of Hyperball!
Joe Blasi
I have lost some good games to bug in the games that made game reboot and
thay were fixed in newer roms that where out at the time
A other thing that is needed is Player Volume Control What is point of
haveing good sound in a game when you can't hear it.
frenchy
do it.
I have lost some good games to bug in the games that made game reboot
and
thay were fixed in newer roms that where out at the time >>
All they can do is make it easier, they can't make operators unstupid.
<<<A other thing that is needed is Player Volume Control What is point
of
haveing good sound in a game when you can't hear it. >>>
A better idea might be to add a cheap microphone to the game that
monitors the average of the surrounding noise, and adjusts the sound
level accordingly.
Lloyd Olson
perhaps location accessible so they can raise or lower to accomodate players
and other customers. LTG :)
"Joe Blasi" <Jbl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:anTBf.3530$2O6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
metallik
"the next pin" but your list of system improvements is amazing.. Even
moreso considering how well the gameplay seems to be.. this might be
the "next" pin instead. "Best since TNG..." That speaks volumes. Very
much looking forward to finding one on location to try!
kin...@aol.com wrote:
> Gary, a few things need to be cleared up for you and others about
> Stern's new system. Our new game, WPT (my design) is the first pinball
<snip>
Donnie Barnes
glad you did! :-)
I'm also about 4 times more excited than I was to get my game. That's
pretty hard to do. I can't wait to play this thing.
--Donnie
--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
kin...@aol.com
features, and we didn't have to remove anything either. A new system
always offers new capabilities, and this one has been a long time
coming. Those capabilities have been exploited in WPT.
kin...@aol.com
always offers new capabilities, and this one has been a long time
our ability.
twilightzonepinball
sound, stereo is of course not applicable to pinball.
One thing that stikes me is that someone at Stern is replying to a
discussion group troll........whoa!
-Tom
http://mysite.verizon.net/vze8f4tt/tomstwilightzonepinballmachineaccessories/index.html
pinballjim
king...@aol.com wrote:
> Nope. There's TONS AND TONS of additonal depth, polish, speech calls,
> features, and we didn't have to remove anything either.
If you're lying to me, I promise to whine to you in person if I ever
meet you.
;)
Sounds great, looking foward to this one!
kin...@aol.com
kin...@aol.com
that?) I like to hear where I fail. Then I try not to
repeat the mistakes. Lying about what we did on WPT seemed fun, so...I
lied. :<)) I think you won't be whining.
kin...@aol.com
No one has the right to critcize the new system until they play it.
After
witnessing all the hard work Lyman and the rest have done, they
don't deserve to be disrespected by someone who perpetuates bad data
and inflammatory comments. The new system is a nice piece of work.
After the system is out there and played, serious criticism is always
taken seriously by me, at least. I cannot speak for Stern; I am a
consultant,
but the programming team is smart and didligent and some of us are
always watching rgp. If something comes up we want to know about it.
kin...@aol.com
and I am happy tonight!
Woodsy
the comments here. too much of a "good thing" ?
"alive-cds" <aliv...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1138162233.1...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> So the new Stern pinball machines will be in Mono! Isn't that a step
> backwards?? What does anybody else think? Granted there isn't much
> stereo separation anyway with the speakers only 22 inches apart, but
> this is 2006! You can buy an iPod shuffle for $90 and it's in stereo,
> but a $4K pinball machine isn't?? I just don't get it. One of Stern's
> weaknesses was the sound system and they improve it by coming up with
> mono sound. The only thing in my house that in mono is my clock radio
> and even that I only set to buzzer and never listen to the radio
> anymore.
>
kin...@aol.com
diddling gently! Or maybe it's a noun = diddling gentleman.
kin...@aol.com
twilightzonepinball
thing......you're above it by far.
-Tom
Brian Smith
system...
"kirb" <kirb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1138227808....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
twilightzonepinball
Brian Smith
USB jack on the outside of the cabinet!!! LOL
"Joe Blasi" <Jbl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:anTBf.3530$2O6....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Brian Smith
preferable, to me, if rather than having 88200 mono sound, if the game had
44100 stereo sound. I'm in the minority of course, and will; wait until the
next system is available. While I wait I get to find a WPT to check out
somewhere.
"Woodsy" <woo...@comNONSPAMcast.net> wrote in message
news:D4GdnZzeWb3...@comcast.com...
gpc...@yahoo.com
I didn't know we had to get permission from you and Gary Stern to voice
opinions up here
Understand this, I state opinions
I am not doing a newscast like Dan Rather or Brian Williams
You guys get this mixed up all the time ....
I don't know anything about your new system ... I was asking a question
and voicing some rather small opinions
It's really simple ... Steve Ritchie works for us ... We are his
customers ... He won't be telling me what I can and can't say ... I
have 7 of his machines in my house ... My support has helped his career
(granted in a small way, but every customer counts)
I hope the Stern guys keep on going, but designing games like the
Sopranos (great theme, lousy ) and this Poker thing are not
going to help
and after all, if they were so busy over there in Chicago, why would
they be so worried about little old insignicant me?
Donnie Barnes gets the brown nose trophy once again
my opinions all ....
=)
Gary.Arizona
pinballjim
Oh yeah? Then I got one. Granted it's minor, but here goes.
I haven't played it yet, but I understand that the game doesn't feature
multiple musical soundtracks. It drives *me* nuts to hear the same
thing OVER AND OVER at the start of every game.
I've bored Keith about this to no end. There is *plenty* of public
domain music that could have been midi'ed and stuck in this game. I
think the new system could handle this.
A few games in the early 90s offered multiple soundtracks, but you had
to slog through selecting them each time. Give a game 5 soundtracks,
have it automatically cycle through them each game. Keep the voice
calls and effects the same.
Joe Blasi
> You couldn't have player controlled volume ( for commercial purposes ) but
> perhaps location accessible so they can raise or lower to accomodate players
> and other customers. LTG :)
>
> "Joe Blasi" <Jbl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
or it times out.
Do any other games have this?
Fred Kemper
The switch matrix improvements are most
welcome, and I'm sure the sound system will
rock!
Thanks for the *personal* update, too. :)
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************
<kin...@aol.com> wrote in message news:1138224788....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Gary, a few things need to be cleared up for you and others about
> Stern's new system. Our new game, WPT (my design) is the first pinball
> on the new system.
>
> The system is a huge improvement over the old system, you just don't
> know it yet. Here's the highlights:
<snipped>
Fred Kemper
Learn how to do the updates. Teach them how if they
are willing to learn.
Volunteer to do the updates for them for free.
Do it.
--
Fred
TX
CARGPB#8
******************
"Joe Blasi" <Jbl...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
Joe Blasi
gum and other carp in to.
I was once at this arcade that used play cards and this one game had
card reader on a angle and it not reading the card because some had put
a coin in it.
Brian Smith
coin door, but those crazy spanish manufacturers, I'm pretty sure the volume
controlls could be drilled through the cabinet to allow player control with
the coin door closed? :)
In reality, I think having more stuff accessible to the player would just
mean more stuff to break so I wouldn't personally see this as a feature with
very high priority to consider.
"Joe Blasi" <Joeb...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:DKVBf.14314$_S7....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
flynnibus
Just to say.. thank you for taking time out of your schedule to
participate in the community, provide us details on things we eagerly
await to play, and for giving us such personal input from where you
stand.
Knowing Keith from when he played with us back in MD.. watching his
passion for the game.. I'm sure working with him in such a innovative
area is quite fun.. and probably challenging too! His expectations are
high, and I'm sure he pushes himself and others to meet the
expectations as if he were the player.
Looking forward to finding WPT on location!
-Steve
kin...@aol.com wrote:
> Gary, a few things need to be cleared up for you and others about
> Stern's new system. Our new game, WPT (my design) is the first pinball
> on the new system.
>
> The system is a huge improvement over the old system, you just don't
> know it yet. Here's the highlights:
>