Target Alpha Pinball repair
Robert Catania
ball drops instead of going to game over, the score motor keeps
running, the coin unit and the O relay pulse, I know the game over
relay works, because when I shut the machine off and turn it back on
again it will flash game over and the relay will be pulled in, what
sends power to that relay when needed?
Kerry Imming
Hi Robert, Welcome to rec.games.pinball!
Do you have schematics for the machine? The coil for the GAME OVER
relay is at 13E.
I suspect you're having trouble with the LAST BALL relay (BX). Make
sure that it's pulling in on the last ball for the last player.
The GAME OVER relay (Q) is controlled through a ORANGE-GREEN wire to
the COIN UNIT. On that machine the COIN UNIT steps down an extra time
to trigger Q. Controlling switches are:
1) BALL RETURN (O), the Normally Open switch with BLACK-YELLOW and
BLUE-WHITE-RED wires.
2) LAST BALL RELAY (BX), the Normally Open switch with BLUE-WHITE-RED
and ORANGE-SLATE wires.
3) SCORE MOTOR switch 2C.
Post back with what you find.
- Kerry
www.Team-EM.com
Robert Catania
> On Nov 24, 6:15 pm, Robert Catania <jacobrobert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Thanks for getting back to me, I do have the schematics and the
operation manual, but I'm still having some trouble. When I turn the
game on it will be at game over, I have 8v at motor 2c on the red
wire, 4v on the orange-blue wire on the coin unit and the wiper
contact is landed on the last rivit. the game over relay is pulled in.
On the BX relay, the NO switch between blue-white-red and orange-slate
is open.The orange blue wire on the hold relay has 4v on it but the
relay is not pulled in, I have 2v to the coil. When I push the contact
with the orange-blue wire on it while the machine is going crazy at
the end this will energize the game over relay.
When I reset the game and it's ready to play I still have my 8v on the
red wire on motor 2c , the NO switches on the BX relay look made but
there is no voltage on the wires blue-white and orange slate I do have
2v on the coils, on the O relay on the black-yellow wire, I have 2v.
contact not made to blue-white I do have 2v to this coil.
Robert Catania
> > ball drops instead of going to game over, the score motor keeps
> > running, the coin unit and the O relay pulse, I know the game over
> > relay works, because when I shut the machine off and turn it back on
> > again it will flash game over and the relay will be pulled in, what
> > sends power to that relay when needed?
>
> Hi Robert, Welcome to rec.games.pinball!
>
> Do you have schematics for the machine? The coil for the GAME OVER
> relay is at 13E.
>
> I suspect you're having trouble with the LAST BALL relay (BX). Make
> sure that it's pulling in on the last ball for the last player.
>
> The GAME OVER relay (Q) is controlled through a ORANGE-GREEN wire to
> the COIN UNIT. On that machine the COIN UNIT steps down an extra time
> to trigger Q. Controlling switches are:
> 1) BALL RETURN (O), the Normally Open switch with BLACK-YELLOW and
> BLUE-WHITE-RED wires.
> 2) LAST BALL RELAY (BX), the Normally Open switch with BLUE-WHITE-RED
> and ORANGE-SLATE wires.
> 3) SCORE MOTOR switch 2C.
>
> Post back with what you find.
>
Thanks for getting back to me.When I turn the machine on from the
switch on the bottom, I have 8v. on the motor 2c red wire, 4v on the
orange-blue wire on the coin unit, wiper is landed on this rivit. Game
over relay pulled in, orange-blue wire on the hold relay has 4v but
not pulled in, I have 2v to the coil.When I push on the contact with
the orange- blue wire on it, when the machine is pulsing at the end of
game, it will go to game over. The NO switch between the blue-white-
red and orange slate on the BX relay are open.
When I reset the game and it's ready to play,I still have my 8v on the
red wire on the 2c motor stack, the NO switch on the BX relay is now
made, but no voltage to the wires b-w-r and or-slate. I do have 2v. on
the coil.
On the O relay , the black- yellow wire has 2v. contact not made to
blue-white. I have 2v to the coil
After the 3rd ball, the score motor keeps running, the o relay bangs
on and off, and the coin units top coil is pulsing back and fourth. I
will try to get some more info
Thanks
Rob
Kerry Imming
>
> Thanks for getting back to me.When I turn the machine on from the
> switch on the bottom, I have 8v. on the motor 2c red wire, 4v on the
> orange-blue wire on the coin unit, wiper is landed on this rivit. Game
> over relay pulled in, orange-blue wire on the hold relay has 4v but
> not pulled in, I have 2v to the coil.When I push on the contact with
> the orange- blue wire on it, when the machine is pulsing at the end of
> game, it will go to game over. The NO switch between the blue-white-
> red and orange slate on the BX relay are open.
> When I reset the game and it's ready to play,I still have my 8v on the
> red wire on the 2c motor stack, the NO switch on the BX relay is now
> made, but no voltage to the wires b-w-r and or-slate. I do have 2v. on
> the coil.
> On the O relay , the black- yellow wire has 2v. contact not made to
> blue-white. I have 2v to the coil
> After the 3rd ball, the score motor keeps running, the o relay bangs
> on and off, and the coin units top coil is pulsing back and fourth. I
> will try to get some more info
> Thanks
>
> - Show quoted text -
I assume this is set up for 3 balls? I'm not sure the voltages you're
measuring are going to be helpful, but before I can understand them at
all I need to know what you referenced them to. I assume you're
measuring AC voltage... do you always have the negative lead connected
to the BLACK wire?
Is the ORANGE-BLUE wire you're "pusing on" at the BX relay? If so,
then try to manually trip the BX relay instead and see if it goes to
GAME OVER.
Finally, I may be reading your post wrong, but I think you said that
when the game is reset and ready to play (first ball in the shooter
lane) the BX relay switch with ORANGE-BLUE and BLUE-WHITE-RED is
CLOSED. This is wrong and still seem to indicate that the trouble is
with the BX relay not latching correctly at reset.
- Kerry
www.Team-EM.com
Robert Catania
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey Kerry,
I went back and focused on my BX relay, looking down at it, I have 7
sets of contacts, the 2 up front, I guess NO and 5 toward the back.
When I turn the machine on, the 2 contacts in the front are open, the
5 in the back are closed.
When I reset the game and it's ready to play, the 2 contacts in front
are closed, and the 5 in back are open
When the game should end,after the third ball, the 2 contacts in the
front are open, and the 5 in back are closed.
I have been checking voltages with my multimeter (AC), I've been
grounding my black lead to a big screw on the bottom board,
and seaching for a path with my red lead.
It was actually the (R) Hold relay is where I pushed the contact with
a orange-blue wire on it,this will get the game to go to game over.
Thanks again for all the help !
Rob
Kerry Imming
> Hey Kerry,
> I went back and focused on my BX relay, looking down at it, I have 7
> sets of contacts, the 2 up front, I guess NO and 5 toward the back.
> When I turn the machine on, the 2 contacts in the front are open, the
> 5 in the back are closed.
> When I reset the game and it's ready to play, the 2 contacts in front
> are closed, and the 5 in back are open
> When the game should end,after the third ball, the 2 contacts in the
> front are open, and the 5 in back are closed.
> I have been checking voltages with my multimeter (AC), I've been
> grounding my black lead to a big screw on the bottom board,
> and seaching for a path with my red lead.
> It was actually the (R) Hold relay is where I pushed the contact with
> a orange-blue wire on it,this will get the game to go to game over.
> Thanks again for all the help !
>
> - Show quoted text -
First, I don't think the voltage readings are going to be useful. The
"big screw" on the bottom is likely not connected to anything
electrically. It would be better to connect the black lead to the
black wire that is common to almost all of the coils.
That said, let's try a different approach.
The root problem is that the GAME OVER (Q) relay doesn't energize
after the last ball enters the outhole. From your description of the
BX relay it seems to be working correctly although there could still
be a switch not working correctly on BX. Normally, Q pulling in at
end-of-game will shut off the BALL RETURN (O) relay, which will stop
the SCORE MOTOR.
You said that the switch with the ORANGE-BLUE wire on the HOLD (R)
relay triggered Q. I can't find an R switch with an ORANGE-BLUE wire
on the schematics... but my copy isn't all that clear. Anyway... this
is strange because the R relay should ALWAYS be energized. The R
relay just drops power out if any of the slam switches are opened.
After your start a game manually OPEN the R relay to make sure that it
was energized. Check the switches on it to make sure they make good
contact when the relay actuates.
If that doesn't fix anything, the next thing I'd try is a jumper wire
to find out which switch is blocking Q from energizing. You need a
fairly heavy guage wire, ideally with an aligator clip on one end.
Clip it to the RED-WHITE wire that runs most everywhere. What you're
going to do is manually "play" a game with the playfield up until the
end of ball 3. Then you briefly contact the other end of the jumper
to points along the circuit starting at the coil and working to the
right (schematic-wise) until the coil doesn't fire.
1. ORANGE-GREEN wire on Q coil. This should work because the relay
does energize sometimes.
2. BLACK-YELLOW wire on the COIN UNIT.
3. BLACK-YELLOW wire on O.
4. BLUE-WHITE-RED wire on O.
5. BLUE-WHITE-RED on BX.
6. ORANGE-SLATE wire on BX.
7. ORANGE-SLATE wire on SCORE MOTOR switch 2C.
The point were Q stops working is where the open circuit/switch is.
Remember that the outhole switch must be closed as if a ball were
there. If needed you can pull the plug/service jack on the score
motore to stop it while you test. You may need to restart the game
between measurements to get the game over condition set up again.
I hope my explanation was clear.
- Kerry
www.Team-EM.com
Robert Catania
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hey Kerry
I played till the end of game and pulled power to the score motor
First I jumped red-white to black-yellow on the O relay, this pulled
in my game over relay
Second, I jumped red-white to blue-white (located behind black yellow
on the O relay) I'm guessing the red faded off, this energizes the
game over relay
Third , the BX relay, red white to blue-white energizes game over
There are two wires with orange, I'm not shure what orange-slate is,I
have what looks like orange-blue behind the blue-white
jumped to red-white, it will go to game over, the other is orange with
zig-zag black running through it, this does nothing when jumped to red-
white
The only black-yellow I see on my coin unit looks like it's grounded
to the coil housing ? Should it be on the wiper blade?
I'm not exactly shure where motor 2C is , I see the number 2 in the
score motor, I thought A stack was the closest to the bottom, B stack
was in the middle and the C stack was on the top? The only wires with
orange on them are in the middle stack?
Thanks again for all the help.
Rob
Kerry Imming
> Hey Kerry
> I played till the end of game and pulled power to the score motor
> First I jumped red-white to black-yellow on the O relay, this pulled
> in my game over relay
> Second, I jumped red-white to blue-white (located behind black yellow
> on the O relay) I'm guessing the red faded off, this energizes the
> game over relay
> Third , the BX relay, red white to blue-white energizes game over
> There are two wires with orange, I'm not shure what orange-slate is,I
> have what looks like orange-blue behind the blue-white
> jumped to red-white, it will go to game over, the other is orange with
> zig-zag black running through it, this does nothing when jumped to red-
> white
> The only black-yellow I see on my coin unit looks like it's grounded
> to the coil housing ? Should it be on the wiper blade?
> I'm not exactly shure where motor 2C is , I see the number 2 in the
> score motor, I thought A stack was the closest to the bottom, B stack
> was in the middle and the C stack was on the top? The only wires with
> orange on them are in the middle stack?
> Thanks again for all the help.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Excellent. What we now know is that the circuit path is good through
the O switch and through the COIN UNIT. The BLACK-YELLOW wire on the
COIN UNIT must be connected correctly because it's part of what you've
tested as working.
The wire I thought was ORANGE-SLATE may be ORANGE-BLUE (it's not very
clear on my schematics). The wire you are looking for is the other
side of the switch that the BLUE-WHITE (missing RED) wire. That's the
same wire you'll be looking for on SCORE MOTOR switch 2C.
The map to find the SCORE MOTOR switches is on the bottom left of the
schematics. Be careful because the switches run perpendicular to what
you might think from the drawing. That is, the #2 switches will run
from the bottom left across the bottom of the score motor. There's
another drawing that shows the A,B,C,D,E positions... C is the third
stack of switches from the bottom. Ignore the sequence chart for now,
that's for the advanced course :-) From you description it sounds
like you might have found the right stack of switches.
You're getting close.... hang in there.
- Kerry
www.Team-EM.com
Robert Catania
>
> - Show quoted text -
O.K. I think I'm really close, I played through a game, jumped red-
white to the orange-blue on the score motor stack, it went to game
over
Went through another game, this time I checked voltage from the black
wire on the score motor coil to the blue-white on the score motor, I
have 5 volts, I see that it is trying to pass the 5 volts across to
the orange-blue, I cleaned the contacts, but it did not help, I do
have a Gotlieb contact adjuster but I wanted to check with you before
I did anything.
Thanks
Rob
Kerry Imming
> O.K. I think I'm really close, I played through a game, jumped red-
> white to the orange-blue on the score motor stack, it went to game
> over
> Went through another game, this time I checked voltage from the black
> wire on the score motor coil to the blue-white on the score motor, I
> have 5 volts, I see that it is trying to pass the 5 volts across to
> the orange-blue, I cleaned the contacts, but it did not help, I do
> have a Gotlieb contact adjuster but I wanted to check with you before
> I did anything.
> Thanks
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Rob... the voltage won't tell you anything because the circuit is
pulsed for a very short time through SCORE MOTOR switches 2C and 1A.
While the score motor is running at the end-of-game you could short
out JUST switch 2C to make sure that's the problem, but at this point
I'd just clean & adjust it. With the power off, rotate the score
motor to watch the switch. Run a flexstone file between the points
5-10 times while holding the switch closed (fine sandpaper will work
too). Check the gap; you want about 1/16" of gap when it's open.
When it closes the moving blade/contact should move the fixed blade a
small amount. Adjust only the fixed blade by bending it right at the
secured end. It only takes a very tiny adjustment, so make very small
adjustments, check, and repeat if necessary.
- Kerry
http://www.Team-EM.com
Robert Catania
Wow ! it worked ! I cleaned the contacts again and adjusted the gap a
little closer and it worked. I can't thank you enough.
I had almost given up on this machine, now I'm glad I stuck it out. I
do have another question though, Every now and then, I 'll be playing
a single game, then it will go to player 3 or 4 out of the blue ? I've
read some other postings and it sounded like the wiper rivits on the
coin unit needed cleaning, I've done this, but it still happens once
in a while? is this correct?
Thanks again Kerry, you have been a tremendous help !
Rob
Robert Catania
issues, sometimes while playing one player, it will all of the sudden
go to player three ? I'm pretty sure it is the coin unit , but I have
already cleaned the rivits, is it time for some type of lubrication?
also one of my pop up targets is stuck in the up position, I tried to
wiggle on it thinking it was bound up but it won't move at all, is it
time to disassemble the whole unit? Any help would be appreciated.
Kerry Imming
I'm assuming this happens when advancing to the next ball. Normally
the PLAYER UNIT should step past players 2,3,& 4 and go to the next
ball on player 1. The COIN UNIT doesn't step during this, but could
cause the PLAYER UNIT to stop early if the contacts aren't making a
good connection.
The first thing I'd check though is PLAYER UNIT switches P2G, P3G, and
P4G... they're the top ones on the stacks and can easily get bumped
out of adjustment.
Does it always stop too early? That is, next player on the same
ball... or does it sometimes go to next player, next ball?
Any pattern to which player/ball it skips?
- Kerry
Robert Catania
> On Dec 13, 4:14 pm, Robert Catania <jacobrobert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Hey Kerry,
I found and cleaned those contacts on the player unit, and I think
that was it, I've been playing the crap out of the machine, trying
one, two, three players and it's been good so far, I've got one last
thing I have to address, one of the drop targets on the top of the
play field is jammed, I tried to push it manually, then pull from the
bottom, it's stuck, I have some books to show me the beakdown, I was
thinking about replacing all ten while I have apart, I 'm a little
nervous about taking it apart. any tips?
Rob
mrcrazy
pinball running, guys!!! very good job!!
Greg
Kerry Imming
>
> Hey Kerry,
> I found and cleaned those contacts on the player unit, and I think
> that was it, I've been playing the crap out of the machine, trying
> one, two, three players and it's been good so far, I've got one last
> thing I have to address, one of the drop targets on the top of the
> play field is jammed, I tried to push it manually, then pull from the
> bottom, it's stuck, I have some books to show me the beakdown, I was
> thinking about replacing all ten while I have apart, I 'm a little
> nervous about taking it apart. any tips?
>
> - Show quoted text -
Great job getting your Target Alpha running.
Here's a link to Jim "Gott Lieb"'s write-up on drop target
replacement... see if that helps. As I recall it wasn't that bad on
my So76... but it only has 4 drops per bank.
- Kerry
Robert Catania
wrote:
Hey Kerry,
My Target Alpha has been playing great, I do have one small problem,
When I play two players, the player two light is not lit, when the
machine is first turned on it will light, so I know it's not the bulb,
it did light once that I saw, I know it's a dirty contact
somewhere,any idea where I should look ?
Thanks
Rob
Todd Newman
I would start with the contacts on the stepper in the back. (Player
unit, brass rivets)
Kerry Imming
> My Target Alpha has been playing great, I do have one small problem,
> When I play two players, the player two light is not lit, when the
> machine is first turned on it will light, so I know it's not the bulb,
> it did light once that I saw, I know it's a dirty contact
> somewhere,any idea where I should look ?
As Todd pointed out, the player score reel lights are controlled by
the rivets on the PLAYER UNIT in the back box.
But, I believe you're talking about the 1, 2, 3, or 4 players can play
lights at the bottom of the backglass. Those are controlled by the
rivets on the coin unit. I can't read my copy of the schematics there
very well, but I think it's an ORANGE wire that goes to the 2nd player
light; it's B6 on the schematics. You can probably find it fastest by
starting a 2-player game and pressing down on the coin unit contacts
to see if one is not making contact.
- Kerry
http://www.Team-EM.com
Robert Catania
> On Feb 12, 5:55 pm, Robert Catania <jacobrobert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
Thanks for getting back to me, it was the light by the score wheel, I
went over those rivits a few times but I will check them again. I have
something else I tried to tackle with no sucess, my brother has a 63
WILLIAMS shuffle ally, when I push the reset, it stays at game over,
I do have the schematics, any suggustions where to start?
Kerry Imming
>
> Thanks for getting back to me, it was the light by the score wheel, I
> went over those rivits a few times but I will check them again. I have
> something else I tried to tackle with no sucess, my brother has a 63
> WILLIAMS shuffle ally, when I push the reset, it stays at game over,
> I do have the schematics, any suggustions where to start
Player 2 score wheel lights are controlled by the PLAYER UNIT in the
back box, switch P2F. It's the second cam in when looking into the
back box. Switches start at A closest to the CAM. F is probably the
second switch from the top. Clean & Adjust that switch.
On the shuffle alley, it would be best to start a new thread labeled
"TECH EM: Williams Shuffle Alley reset". Provide whatever details you
can about what happens at startup. Do the score reels reset, is there
a score motor that keeps running, any lights active? Any machine
history you know is helpful also... was it working?, has it been in
storage?, just got the machine, etc.
I'd be glad to look at the schematics to see what to check if you e-
mail me a set of six or so slightly-overlapping digital pictures. I'm
kcimming at magnaspeed dot net.
- Kerry
http://www.Team-EM.com