Gottlieb EM Tech Question... Coin motor noise, but no credits
jonceramic
I have a Gottlieb Top Score (300) with a half moon credit counter. It
was originally working fine, but at some point, one side or the other
would sometimes not add credits. I can hear the motor turn, but
nothing triggers on either coin slot.
I'm a newbie, and I read my marvin3m (I'm kicking myself for not
setting up free play, but my daughter (4) loves to put quarters in!)
Any advice on where I should start looking? On the head and the
credit display mechanism, or at the scoring motor?
Another item that may or may not be related... The credit when I hit
a free credit/replay score doesn't trigger, no knock, no credit.
However, when I match, I do get a credit and a knock.
Finally, my game is set on 2 credits for 1 coin, and I have the
schematic (which I'm still learning how to read.)
TIA,
Jon
A...@team-em.com
Jon,
According to your sypmtoms (thanks for being so thorough) you can
probably eliminate the credit unit itself due to the reward at match.
If you open your schematic, you should be able to find an "Add Credit"
relay, which feeds the credit unit. There should be three paths of
switches that will trigger that relay.
[1] Match Unit - this one works so no need to go further on this path
[2] Replay Score - This one could be as simple as the score you exceed
(on the score card) is not the one that was selected by the plugs in
the back box (unless it worked before)
[3] Inserting Coins - This IMHO is the path to follow (I bet your
daughter will agree with me). Again, on your schematic, look for a
Coin Relay. If you can manually activate that with a non conductive
rod (Pencil or dowel works nicely) find out if that advances the
credit reel. If it does, your issue resides back towards the coin
door, connectors and switches. If not, odds are the issue is on that
relay or towards the credit unit.
Please report back if this helps (and especially if it doesn't)
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com
A...@team-em.com
>
> I have a Gottlieb Top Score (300) with a half moon credit counter. It
> was originally working fine, but at some point, one side or the other
> would sometimes not add credits. I can hear the motor turn, but
> nothing triggers on either coin slot.
Jon,
Whoops, just re-read your symptoms. If the motor turns when you coin
up, it's probably a switch set on the score motor (find the one that
is associated with the credit relay).
New tactic, lift the playfield, manually press the coin switch (on
the coin door) with your dowel and look at the credit relay. Is it
moving?
[yes] check switch contacts on that relay
[no] Move back towards the score motor.
Once again, let us know how this works out.
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM-com
bodean
Sounds like you're still enjoying that Top Score. Hopefully it's still
running solid except for this.
This machine did the same thing to me when I first got it. I can't
remember exactly what caused it, but I do remember it was caused by
one of two things. It was either(as Al says) a dirty or misadjusted
switch switch on the score motor, or something in the credit unit.
File and make sure all the switches on the credit unit are gapped
correctly (there aren't very many) Then check to see which switch on
the score moter fires the add credit coil. It usually runs through
another relay before it gets to the coil. Check the score motor first.
Good luck.
Bodean
PS Did you lose my emaill address? :)
jonceramic
Thanks Al, that's the guidance/logic I needed. I'll report back!
Note: Might be a while with all of the Easter Egg hunts, etc. that a
4 year old also like... :)
One question. I haven't been able to find Flexstones locally... Can
I safely substitute sandpaper with something thin/flat behind it?
Jon
bodean
Yes, you can use a fine grit sandpaper. The reason nobody does is
because it's a real pain to try to use it. It tends to slip and slide
and bunch up. I've used it in a pinch, but flexstones are much
easier.
I've never found them locally either.
Hey, you're about ready for machine #2, aren't ya? :) :)
Bodean
Steve Charland
business card works great. Just slip the card in place, pinch down on
the contact points and draw the card through. :) -S (CARGPB1)
jonceramic
Hey B! I tried a month back, but didn't get an email back. Maybe I
got it wrong? :) Basically, I was writing to say I'd fixed the weak
flipper. All it was - was the old "spring wound to tight" issue.
Unwinding it 2 screws back made it perfect like the other one. The
coil still hums some, but I think that's because one of the nuts is a
little loose.
Ah well, I'll check out what you mentioned. Just finished an Easter
Egg hunt and then dying eggs. And all I can think about is my pin and
my rotating monitor project on one of my arcade cabinets! My Mother
in Law is coming tomorrow, and she's a game junkie!
Jon
jonceramic
Boy, I am, but don't know about the wife/pocket book. My birthday's
coming up soon, so maybe? LOL At the St. Louis superauction last
weekend, there was a decent Excalibur that needed some serious
shopping and was faded and maybe had some board issues, but it played
and looked complete - my perfect project machine. It went for under
$400. I was dying! But, I was waiting on some arcade cabinets that,
ironically, I had to leave too early to even bid on. *argh*
But yeah, I'm kinda itching for more.
Jon
jonceramic
> Actually, paper is better and takes off much less material. An old
> business card works great. Just slip the card in place, pinch down on
> the contact points and draw the card through. :) -S (CARGPB1)
That's an awesome recommendation, Steve. I'm still an EM novice, but
my experience in preparing metallurgical mounts for my job has taught
me some things - the biggest being that I'm great at turning something
flat into something faceted like a diamond! (I let the other guys
polish - LOL)
Your idea makes a _lot_ of sense for 2 reasons. 1. The pinching with
the card will keep my polish flat/parallel. 2. "pull", not "push and
pull" is the concept I needed to give myself some control and not
bunch up the paper.
RGP's awesome. Thanks for the advice, guys.
Jon
Carl Witthoft
I second that. Barring severe pitting on the contacts, business cards
are fantastic tools.
In article <4617C634...@comcast.net>,
Steve Charland <ccha...@comcast.net> wrote:
--
Team EM to the rescue! mailto:ca...@Team-EM.com http://www.team-em.com
TimMe
battery-operated Dreml-type tool with the small wire-wheel
attachement. It makes all the other methods obsolete as far as I am
concerned.
However, I would not use this method on the gold-plated contacts of an
early solid-state game. For those, I agree that the business card
method is the best for cleaning.
- TimMe, Team-EM (CARGPB3)
"Spamming RGP with incessant postings about... pinball."
A...@team-em.com
> One question. I haven't been able to find Flexstones locally... Can
> I safely substitute sandpaper with something thin/flat behind it?
Jon,
I gotta go with the gang on this one, otherwise they'd beeat me up at
our next meeting ;-). 1/4" strips of business cards make great
universal cleaning tools. EM or SS.
Flexstones (for EMs only) are available from Pinball Resource and
other pinball parts vendors.
For the big Tungsten contacts on hi-arc items like flipper cabinet
and EoS switches, you might also try an automotive points file. Or if
you really need a hobby, you can use a burnishing tool.
(and don't tell anyone I told you this, 'cause they'll really start
yelling at me, but "in a pinch" a half inch strip of 400 grit
sandpaper scored down the center and folded and glued to create a 1/4"
double-sided strip and the pulled through the contacts, will work on
points that have gone past the effectiveness of card stock.)
AL CARGPB 33(1/3)
www.Team-EM.com
jonceramic
Okay, I finally got underneath, and behind, and, well, it's working
again, but I'm not sure how or what I fixed exactly. But, Bodean, I
think you were right about it being the credit unti.
Here's the steps I went through.
1. Manually triggered the coin mechanism to make sure it fired just
like an actual coin. Yep.
2. Looked through diagram and start tracing back to the score motor.
Scratched head a few thousand times when I got to the 3/5 ball setting
pins, etc. (B, did you ever figure out which pin block was missing
and soldered together permanently? I'm assuming it was the 2 credits
per coin one. The solder looked old, old, old.)
3. Look at the score motor, and back to the diagram.
4. Get confused as hell and went straight to the score motor.
5. Broke out the business cards.
6. Watched it over and over again. Didn't get out my multimeter, but
noted that there were 2 stations that had a nice green flash ever
time. 7. Tried the business card trick on what I thought was maybe
the bank related to the credits, but basically was really confused.
Also tried to focus on the relays with the flashes. Didn't get much
off the cards, and didn't touch the flashes at all.
8. No help, no change. Frustrated. Gave up on score motor.
Went to the credit unit...
9. Figured out how the steps step, and how the 3 switches all either
engage or disengage if credit is available or not.
10. Put a business card to the switches back there. Now these were
dirty, dirty, dirty. One was indeed misaligned so that it wasn't
swiping well. (I didn't try to align it.)
11. Put a few credits on manually, and it worked.
12. Ran the credits out, and dropped coin - worked fine!
So, I will only assume that one of two things happened...
1. Cleaning the contacts worked.
2. Something else was off. When the contacts were made to show
credits, it bypassed that and allowed the coin drops to register.
When the credits went to 0, whatever didn't work the last time, worked
this time. So, the actual issue is still a mystery.
I'm guessing #2 because when I got to the back, the credit unit had
all 3 switches open. Since they were already open, cleaning them
shouldn't have helped the issue. So, it was the make of the contacts
which somehow "helped".
Jon
Jon
bodean
pretty well frozen when I got it. I unfroze it and it worked fine. I
thought I cleaned those contacts, but maybe not? You're right, one
wasn't making correctly.
Anyway, if it does it again, you know where to look.
Bodean
jonceramic
Hmm, the whole mechanism sure looks like it got cleaned well, and it
seemed to still be lose and move well. But, it seems like those
credit switch contacts are picking up extra grime back or something?
None of the other contacts in the entire game seem to be as dirty as
those 3. They have what seems like black soot all around them. It's
like those credit switches are dirt magnets or something? Could it be
that the one switch that could be adjusted is the source?
(Just so you all know, Bodean's a GREAT guy. I was looking for a
starter, low end, mostly playable EM machine for my budget, and he
read my RGP post and offered me up his Top Score, let me know how far
he'd got on shopping it (100% playable as it turned out!), and was
completely upfront about what he hadn't gotten to fixing yet. It's
been the perfect machine for a newbie. Exacly what I wanted and I
couldn't be happier. I love playing it and learning EM tech on it.)
Jon
bodean
I betcha I didn't clean those switches. I'd put a good cleaning on
them and make sure they're adjusted correctly and you shouldn't have
any more problems. Keep us posted.
BTW, thanks for the kind words.
Bodean