A new way to diagnose and repair WMS CPU boards
beaver
System 3-11 WMS boards:
http://www.edcheung.com/album/album05/pinball/cpu.htm
It functions similarly to the ones that were in use by the WMS
factory, and are really emulators for the rest of the pinball
machine. In other words, these testers provide indicators and
switches to stimulate the CPU board under test so that it is more
convenient and safer than testing in a machine. The difference is
that my tester is much smaller and lighter because it does not need
high voltage.
I have been using one of these testers to repair boards for years, and
recently encountered an especially difficult to repair candidate. It
caused me to develop a new tool that improves testing these boards
(IMO). The basic problem with the previous method is that it required
the CPU chip to be able to run the code in the ROMs. However, if this
mechanism is corrupted, it is almost impossible to diagnose the board.
In the new method, I plug in a module into the CPU chip's socket, and
that allows the user to examine the board. This should allow
debugging even the most dead boards.
Note that this module is designed for 6802 as well as 68B09 boards, so
it should handle all of System 3-11, WPC, Data East, and some sound
boards as well.
This is still in development, so feedback and discussion would be
welcomed. Here are the details:
http://www.edcheung.com/album/album09/pinball/pic68/pic68.htm
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
seymour-shabow
Ed, if this will work with the earlier boardsets like classic stern 6800
(or be made to work with it) I'd love to have one. I know you're
saying system 3-11, but system 3-6 is 6800, not 6802 (is the pinout the
same/would it work?)
It would be very nice to have pinmame running through the board to the
machine so that I could debug in real time on the machine itself.
-scott CARGPB#29
beaver
All that matters is the pinouts. If they are the same, even if some
control lines are scrambled, it will work. In the latter case, it
would just require some low level software changes. Similar to how I
handle 68B09 from the 6802.
Thanks for the comment!
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
beaver
used on those CPU boards.
But I will look for 6800 and check.
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
seymour-shabow
> BTW, my System 4 and 6 schematics (Flash and Lazerball) show 6802 is
> used on those CPU boards.
>
> But I will look for 6800 and check.
>
That's entirely possible I'm usually up to my ears in stern/bally
boardsets though, they're definitely 6800.
If you even just make it so that I can pluginto the cpu with the rom
images saved onto your helper board that would help me out A LOT. I
waste a lot of time burning chips sometimes for a 1 byte change to try
something out, and just having a cpu+rom on a small board would be worth
most of the cost of admission.
I'll even beta test it for you if you want - I have a test mule set up
in the basement now for exactly this purpsoe (testing rom changes)
-scott CARGPB#29
Borygard
so I'm not sure what's up there.
Very cool stuff Ed!! Can't wait to see more!
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
www.LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
"beaver" <e...@edcheung.com> wrote in message
news:a5165585-b204-49cb...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
beaver
on it? That would allow me to know if there are pinout differences
that matter.
From looking at the Flash schematics, my module would work on that
just fine. The two chips (6800 and 6802) are similar in pinouts, but
not the same. I suspect they are equivalent.
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
Borygard
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
www.LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
"beaver" <e...@edcheung.com> wrote in message
news:4981eec4-08f6-48b9...@31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
seymour-shabow
> Can you or Scott send me the schematics of a board that states "6800"
> on it? That would allow me to know if there are pinout differences
> that matter.
>
> From looking at the Flash schematics, my module would work on that
> just fine. The two chips (6800 and 6802) are similar in pinouts, but
> not the same. I suspect they are equivalent.
>
Well one major difference is the 6802/08 has the clock circuit on the
chip. The 6800 is externally clocked so that might make a huge
difference in the design.
-scott CARGPB#29
Jazman
WPC boards. Are you hoping to sell a few of these things down the road?
Also, been meaning to ask you if you're planning on going to Expo.
Jaz
beaver
Unfortunately, I will not be going to Expo anytime soon. I usually
attend Allentown and York every year.
Thanks for the comments!
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
2MNEHOBEZ
Ed, you are one amazing person! After looking thru your website I find
myself in awe. From the computer work, to restoration, to outer
space...Wow!
Kudos to you for what you do for this hobby and for being just an all
around great guy!
Jeremy
Damian Parrino
regards,
Damian
CEG
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hope to see you at York this year Ed! BTW, great work!!
Chas
beaver
externally clocked. This happens to be similar to the 68B09, which I
will work on next. In both these cases, the PIC will sample the input
clock at a fast rate, and change the address and control line at the
correct time.
It appears that System 3 is 6800, Rob tells me that there were only
five that used this board set. So I will work on WPC next, and I will
see how much effort it would be to handle 6800 as well.
In either case, the application you have is better suited for a ROM
emulator. My system does not run the ROM image, and you would need to
find a 6800 emulator to run on the PC, which would then communicate to
the PIC. I would be glad to talk more about it.
Edward Cheung CARGPB26
seymour-shabow
> Well, you hit it on the head. The difference is that the 6800 is
> externally clocked. This happens to be similar to the 68B09, which I
> will work on next. In both these cases, the PIC will sample the input
> clock at a fast rate, and change the address and control line at the
> correct time.
>
> It appears that System 3 is 6800, Rob tells me that there were only
> five that used this board set. So I will work on WPC next, and I will
> see how much effort it would be to handle 6800 as well.
>
> In either case, the application you have is better suited for a ROM
> emulator. My system does not run the ROM image, and you would need to
> find a 6800 emulator to run on the PC, which would then communicate to
> the PIC. I would be glad to talk more about it.
>
Rom emulators are expensive ;) I'll live with 2 minute burn per eprom
rather than spend $$$ on that (although I'd love to have one that I plug
in via USB on my pc and then plug into the machine...... I'd need 2
though unless I replace the cpu chip/passthrough setup)
It's not TOO bad burning now, I just play a game or 3 while I'm waiting.
It would be even less if I moved my burning operation to my office, I
could surf the net/RGP while waiting. No room for the extra dos based
rom burning machine there though (although..... I could have it on my
network instead of using floppies to move the rom files.....)
What I'd REALLY want to do is use a device to simulate what pinmame
debug is doing on the pc, but in the real machine, i.e. I have a real
time debugger online at any point.
-scott CARGPB#29
Mark Hooks
Edward,
I have a stack of the various Williams versions that I'd love to try
this out on. If you need a beta tester let me know. I can even build
the unit if needed.
Mark Hooks
850-321-8783
beaver
know.
Thanks to Jaz, Jeremy, Chas (CU@York), and Damian.
Edward Cheung CARGPB26