You read it here first!
Greg Chung
netrek history, and since there is NOTHING going on now worth mentioning, it
might as well be dug up.
First of all, some major events that Will Not Go Away:
Paulsen stating UP would not be genocided
Spaceace! reaching 500 hours on bronco
chi clones out the butt
Duck Dodgers quitting and joining every team in the INL at one point
Ged develops the "3rd Space Base" tactic
SYM pulls a stunning upset over LT, Spaceace! leaves CMU to meditate
Tool's first starbase, Tool carrying armies attemping to fight a Stiletto SB,
Tool ogging Akira
Team Rankscum substituting ZZnew guy for Valckurai
Yeapig!!!!! accused of being CMU-Army joint AI project
The original incarnation of Hells' Bagels, Team With No Name
1000 Ratio Base
Dynix Object Oriented SHell
Lyodav's .plan picture, Amazing's .plan Simpsons picture
Mojo Raisin, Mojo Red Shirt, Mojo Balton
Scotland Yard still doesn't have feta cheese
Akira "I will never captain again" Bernatz cocaptains XG, LT
MUCUS PIG the first CMU admiral at bezier
INL before UDP
"GOD->ALL The Romulans have 5 minutes left." "F4->ALL Admiral Warlock is now
F4." "R1->ALL We win! We win!"
Physical descriptions of everyone
DD's etemp cooling increase, bav stops usings DDs
And now, we've all seen silly player rankings on raw skill... but here's
a better ranking system.
Disadvantaged Dogfighting (DDF: fighting while hurt to stall opponents, etc.)
Tactical Awareness (TAW: going to escort someone you see get a kill, etc.)
Galactic Awareness (GAW: going to the right places at the right time, etc.)
Strategic Team Play (STP: leadership and good organizing of your team, etc.)
Creative Play (CRP: being unpredictable, planet fakes, decoys, "coming out from
nowhere.", etc.)
Intelligent Sacrifices (INS: smart ogging, bombing, mutualling, protecting,
knowing you'll die, etc.)
Overall Team Worth (OTW: effort and effectiveness in team play)
You'll notice that the "standard" rankings aren't used, like ogging and phaser-
locking. This is because when it all comes down to crunch time, these skills
don't win games. Effectiveness is a measure of lots of things, and these are
just a few "global" measures. Rankings are based on a 0 (demonstrates no skill
in this area) to 5 (a prime example). I've gone thru and ranked some people
based on how they were playing during "crunch time."
DDF TAW GAW STP CRP INS OTW
Stiletto 3 4.5 4 4.5 3 3.5 4
Akira 4 4 2.5 3.5 4 4 4
Spaceace! 5 4.5 3.5 4 4.5 4 4.5
56 5 4.5 4.5 3.5 3 4.5 4.5
Mojo Riser 3.5 4 4 4 4 4 4
Phantom 4.5 4 3.5 4.5 3 4.5 4
ZZnew guy 3 3.5 3.5 3.5 5 3 3.5
Yea boy!!!!! 5 4 4 4 3 3 4
Wreck 3 4 5 3.5 3 3 3.5
Red Shirt 3.5 4.5 5 4.5 4 4.5 5
DDF TAW GAW STP CRP INS OTW
ensign 5 5 4 4 3 4.5 4.5
ryche 4.5 4 3.5 4 3 4 4
Exodus 3 4.5 4 4 3 3 4
MUCUS PIG 3 3 4 3.5 4.5 4 3.5
Spaceman Spiff 3 3 3.5 3 3.5 4 3.5
EEK!! 2.5 3 2.5 2.5 3 3 3
Sandia 4 4 4 3.5 4 4.5 4
Hector 3.5 4 3.5 3.5 3.5 4 3.5
bav 3 3.5 3.5 3 4 3 3.5
Mr. Wizard 3 3 3 3.5 4 3.5 3.5
DDF TAW GAW STP CRP INS OTW
That's just a short list... I'm sure everyone else can go and rank their
own personal Netrek Heroes (tm).
In any case, there are quite a few common misconceptions about the "best"
people out there. In order to clarify this, here are a few winners:
Most Overrated Strategist: Akira. Sure, he's a "published" author in the
archives, but when it comes to game time, he concentrates too much on the
tactical and not on the game. He also has leadership problems. None-the-less
he was one of my mentors.
Best Individual Player, Worst Team Player: MUCUS PIG. He's got (had) great
skills but didn't really work too well in a team. Probably due to his unwill-
ingness to give up the old "out-dated imperialist dogma" of ogg.
Most Crowd-Drawing Player: Hero 4 Hire, aka flying hotel. Remember, "Space-
ace! always carries." He gets escort because people want to scum kills from
the hordes which try to ogg him.
Most Inspiring Player: Surprisingly to most, this would be Freekill. His
individual talent might not warrant huge escort, but his reputation somehow
always got him huge escort... so he never died, thus artifically inflating
his skills.
Most Controversial: Well, that's obvious. Despite my best attempts to win
this, awards go to Heimdall for all those damn stunts he pulled.
And individual honors go to West for Best Space Controller, Worst Planet Taker.
Well, that's all. I hope you got through it all in one piece.
Kevin M Bernatz
You should have included 'desire to win' as a stat....since there are some
players (Rob, Tom (mojo) for example) that will do anything that they feel is
necessary to win, no matter what it is (ie. ogging, scout bombing, planet scumming,
basing, etc.).
-KB
leadership problems... more likely team_listening problems :)
Huaiqing Wang
[ important netrek events to tell your grandchildren about ]
Err, I believe you forgot a few, Greg. :-)
Terence leaves, the death and resurrection of Bronco (tm).
one word, sunscreamer.
12AM, first @large team worthy of challenging CMU.
Human Target/Offensive Tackle.
Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
Chunging (yes, Greg, something named after you).
-- Oldie
Dennis K Lee
Hey what does Stiletto do nowadays?
He still posts but HE DOES NOT PLAY!?!?!
I think Greg is still living in the 'good ole' days :)
COME ON GET A LIFE!!! PLAY NETREK!!! :)
-SpaceGhost
---
Electrical Engineering |
University of North Carolina at Charlotte |
Charlotte, North Carolina |
|
email: dek...@uncc.edu |
Joseph E. Beck
> Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
It was only 5 captains. Balton would have lived. Hell, I'd probably
live.
> Chunging (yes, Greg, something named after you).
Great way of promoting yourself to admiral!
No-look Pass!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
earth is 98% full. Please remove any excess inhabitants.
GCS/M/SS d- p- c++ l u+ e- m+(--) s/++ n-@ h f+ g+ w++ t+ r y?
Steven Sierb
: Hey what does Stiletto do nowadays?
: He still posts but HE DOES NOT PLAY!?!?!
: I think Greg is still living in the 'good ole' days :)
: COME ON GET A LIFE!!! PLAY NETREK!!! :)
: -SpaceGhost
Hahahahhahahahahhaaaaaa...
"get a life play Netrek"... hehehehe... I had to laugh at that one!
I am tempted to say that I have that atttitude... EVEN though it might
cost me my girlfriend!!!
ack ack ack... got to get grip...
.. must fight... willpower........... MUST BE STRONG........
ahh what the Hell...
netrek -h netrek.uml.edu....
--
*************************************************************************
* Everyone Responds To Pain *
* Lord Of Chaos *
* si...@umdsun2.umd.umich.edu *
*************************************************************************
=========================================================================
|| Donuts, Is there anything They Can't Do? ||
=========================================================================
Andrew Markiel
> wa...@db.toronto.edu (Huaiqing Wang) writes:
> > Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
> It was only 5 captains. Balton would have lived. Hell, I'd probably
> live.
It was 6 captains. zeesh, humans just have *no* memory.
-Grey Elf
P.S. He did live.
P.P.S. 5? You have a decent shot. 6? I doubt it.
Brian Odom
>Well folks, I was recently thinking over many of the interesting points in
>netrek history, and since there is NOTHING going on now worth mentioning, it
>might as well be dug up.
[rest deleted]
you know, this is sounding so much like baseball. i think it's putting the
older players on a high pedestal and not crediting newer players. i don't know
most of the people you stated in your post, but i'm sure most of you know about
them. but let's discuss who's good now. or better yet let's have a poll:
1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
better than the major players of today? if so, do you think they were/are
significantly better? and if so, why?
2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
3) if somehow we could assemble a dream team of sorts, who would win? older
players or newer players?
4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
5) most overrated? most underrated? most talented? most skilled? most
clued? best ogger? best dogfighter? etc....
players i respect of today:
dan@ohio-state
botelle@upenn
ronk@iastate (don't laugh)
jive@spanky (too bad he's gone)
jiangwu@berkeley
madpit@mit
this is just a short list of players i can think of off the top of my head
right now who i would consider in the upper echelon of players today (damn,
i didn't even mention not one cmu player....) ok, possibly el0g or he04
who would you consider the best players of today and all-time?
--
Dhalsim
Sub-Zero
SHUT UP AND DIE :)
--
GCS?: -d+ p c(+++) u+ e++ s++/- n(---) h* f? !g w++@ t? r-- y+@
Dennis K Lee
>1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
>better than the major players of today? if so, do you think they were/are
>significantly better? and if so, why?
The older players have Godlike status :) because at the time they were MUCH MUCH
better than the other players out there...as time passed everybody started getting
better. I was fortunate enough to play in some of those Bronco afternoon games,
and there was great since of team work (even better than some inl teams I have
played on). Still whenever you see Akira, Spaceace, or Fill you can count on
escort and ogging.
>2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
Newer players have the physical skills but not the finer points of clue. Without
saying Akira or Spaceace will leave a wounded player floating around instead of
killing them when it is strategically important. I was escorting someone on calvin
and had added up my phasor hits PERFECTLY to leave the only rom between us and
Tau wounded at warp 2...The carrier freaking decides to shoot him and dies at
Tau from the the freshly resurected rom...
>3) if somehow we could assemble a dream team of sorts, who would win? older
>players or newer players?
We have a dream team of sorts...The Heros...kick off Crowbar, And Elvis and add
woof, Akira, Red Shirt, and Crunchy Frog (Jay and cress are gonna flame me!)
(egads!! I added a usc person to the list :)
>4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
Beats me.
>5) most overrated? most underrated? most talented? most skilled? most
>clued? best ogger? best dogfighter? etc....
Most overrated: SpaceGhost...he has no clue what is going on and cannot dogfight
worth shit but always volunteers to space control ;)
Most underrated: Tywong...not that he is any good but he has consistent locks.
Most talented: Spaceace...not really talent but just SHEER hours and experience.
Most skilled: at what?
Most clued: Red Shirt...not really clue...but I think he is innovative in some
respects...and he just doesn't tell me I fucked up...but WHAT exactly
I should have done.
Best ogger: Beats me...it's a lost art :)
Best Dogfighter: Fill...cause he won the tourney :)
>players i respect of today:
>dan@ohio-state
A little overrated...
>botelle@upenn
Whatever happened to TEAM HECTOR! and those hector clones??
>ronk@iastate (don't laugh)
HAHAHA!! he has good physical skills (p-locks, dogfighting) but makes
REAL bad decisions on regular basis.
>jive@spanky (too bad he's gone)
Good player.
>jiangwu@berkeley
hmm not that good is he?? have not trekked with him much.
-Dennis SpaceGhost
Greg Chung
>you know, this is sounding so much like baseball. i think it's putting the
>older players on a high pedestal and not crediting newer players. i don't know
>most of the people you stated in your post, but i'm sure most of you know about
>them. but let's discuss who's good now. or better yet let's have a poll:
That's fine. Since I really haven't played since last April, I can't tell you
about the "new guys". 8-)
>1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
>better than the major players of today? if so, do you think they were/are
>significantly better? and if so, why?
There's a difference between myself and the likes of Akira, MUCUS PIG, etc.
By the time I started, they already had upwards of 200 hours of experience.
They're also (although Akira will deny it!) "conservative" and set in their
ways... I believe the relatively few-but-significant troubles of LT were due
to the 'old-school' minded-ness of the bulk of the players.
On a whole, however, I'd have to say that new players will ALWAYS be better
than old players, provided that they are willing to suffer the "trial by fire"
and learn from the old guys, plus discover new strategies as the game evolves.
For example, in the last INL season I played (SYM), ogging truly died IMHO, and
zone/space control became more important. Thus Red Shirt quoted me to his
team: "Ogging is obsolete."
>2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
Certainly with time, individual skills will be as good as any. The only
advantage I can give is that when you talk about the "old players" you mainly
mean the large player bases that came from CMU and UCB. Obviously, if twenty
good players go to your university, you can learn a lot more team skills...
hell, we at CMU used to discuss strategy over dinner... try doing that you're
the sole player at your site. (Don't REALLY try this, you'll get strange
looks.)
>3) if somehow we could assemble a dream team of sorts, who would win? older
>players or newer players?
Again, I'd have to pick the older players based on the previous reasons. The
only thing you would want to look out for (other than rusty skills) is the lack
of "progressive thinking" that some guys might be hindered by... guys like that
(cough Akira cough) you don't always want in leadership roles, but can be great
team players. Were I to assemble a dream team of 8 people whom I've had the
honor of playing with, my list would probably be the same as many others' from
CMU. Assuming that you could pick everyone at the peak of their skill, you
would have to mention people like Spaceace!, Red Shirt, ensign, Quar, Phantom,
Yea Boy!!!!!, Val Ckurai, etc... I think such a team would win mostly because
of the cohesion developed between people at one site. [*]
>4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
Every major player has left his or her mark on the game... it's hard to make
a list because the game has changed so much. As far as a total package, I'd
have to stick behind my main man, Red Shirt (gasp). Why? Because he's such
a no-nonsense team player who isn't out for individual glory (except as Fish).
Remember that a lot of great team players are great because they fit such a
perfect team like pieces in a puzzle. An example is (was) ryche, who worked
well in any team. (The antithesis may quite possibly have been ZZnew guy,
not because he wasn't personable, but because he was too "progressive".)
>5) most overrated? most underrated? most talented? most skilled? most
>clued? best ogger? best dogfighter? etc....
Hell, I'd like to say that I was pretty underrated because most people saw my
pick-up game attitude 8-). Most everyone in the netrek hall of fame deserves
their fame through many hours clicking the mouse. If I *had* to pick someone
overrated, I might be tempted to say Mr. Wizard simply because his reputation
exceeded him after his skills deteriorated. (Alternately, Morning Glory aka
<I forget...>)
>players i respect of today:
>botelle@upenn
>jive@spanky (too bad he's gone)
>jiangwu@berkeley
[...others deleted...]
Last I checked, these guys have been around for a while...
>who would you consider the best players of today and all-time?
"Best" is pretty ambiguous... As I mentioned earlier, I'm thinking along the
lines of "all-time." There have been rankings before for individual skills,
like best ogger, bomber, etc. Sorely lacking has been judging of leadership
qualities.
In addition, lots of players have been truly "revolutionary". Examples being
Terence Chang (Exxon Valdez) and Craig Boas (Balton). Hugh Moore (ZZnew guy)
deserves honorable mention for being "revolutionary". Individual skill honors
go to the usuals (Spaceace!, etc.), Exodus and others. Perhaps one of the
most controversial but possibly best leader has been Mojo Riser [**]. Really,
Mojo Riser.
And some punks at CMU also deserve honors for implementing the term "netrek
purist" towards Rob Heeeel after he disallowed jousting and victory laps. 8-)
[*] Of course such a team of large egos would need a natural leader. I
volunteer my services, naturally.
[**] Ob. asshole.
Beware: Jai-Alai will sweep the nation come March 8.
Christopher Bruce Kidwell
Greg Chung <gch...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>CMU. Assuming that you could pick everyone at the peak of their skill, you
>would have to mention people like Spaceace!, Red Shirt, ensign, Quar, Phantom,
>Yea Boy!!!!!, Val Ckurai, etc...
Already been done with Team Wizard, arguably the most powerful team in INL
history -- and still has the record with a 6 minute, 50 second genocide.
>their fame through many hours clicking the mouse. If I *had* to pick someone
>overrated, I might be tempted to say Mr. Wizard simply because his reputation
>exceeded him after his skills deteriorated. (Alternately, Morning Glory aka
><I forget...>)
Gee thanks, Greg... :) You are quite correct, however. My skills have been
declining since the '92 season due to decreasing amounts of free time. But,
look on the bright side... think of all those Wiz-points I've saved up! Guess
I'll have to cash them in when we play Heroes in the playoffs...
Wiz
Steven R. Sheldon
>older players on a high pedestal and not crediting newer players. i don't know
>most of the people you stated in your post, but i'm sure most of you know about
>them. but let's discuss who's good now. or better yet let's have a poll:
You have to understand. Whenever someone from CMU starts getting
sentimental, just nod your head, and say "yes, we understand, now go back
and play with your keyboard".
>1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
>better than the major players of today? if so, do you think they were/are
>significantly better? and if so, why?
I don't think most of these older players are all that great individually.
But when you put them all in a team together, they rewl.
>2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
They don't work in a team. I know I work much better in a team, but my
problem is that I can't get together a team I can work great with.
>3) if somehow we could assemble a dream team of sorts, who would win? older
>players or newer players?
Depends on how far back you go. :)
>4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
player or team? I haven't been around for long myself, but I though Seven
Samurai was probably the best team I've seen.
>5) most overrated? most underrated? most talented? most skilled? most
>clued? best ogger? best dogfighter? etc....
well, let me look at your list:
>players i respect of today:
>dan@ohio-state
Probably underrated.
>botelle@upenn
Difficult. When I'm on bigbang, Justin is never any good unless the rest
of his team is doing good. If he's by himself with unclued players, he goes
off in third space and pouts. Thus, I think he's overrated, but has a *LOT*
of hours.
>ronk@iastate (don't laugh)
I won't comment, cause he'll get mad. :)
>jive@spanky (too bad he's gone)
Definately good, and fun to play with.
>jiangwu@berkeley
Hmm, don't know this one too well.
>madpit@mit
Oh, I don't know as if I respect him. He stopped a clue game last fall
because a couple players were flying DD's, and he thought they were stupid.
Meanwhile he was taking his crunchy SC up to the front and giving away
kills. But, a good player, yes, and usually does well.
I think you forgot:
he...@andrew.cmu.edu
el...@andrew.cmu.edu
Definately two players who do well, and are usually fun to play with in
pickup games.
And you should include mcma...@iastate.edu.
Oh, also me and Spaceghost because we are stupid enough to reply to your
post. :)
>this is just a short list of players i can think of off the top of my head
>right now who i would consider in the upper echelon of players today (damn,
>i didn't even mention not one cmu player....) ok, possibly el0g or he04
There ya go!
And ok, typically if Spaceace! comes in, you have guaranteed scumming and
escorting.
>who would you consider the best players of today and all-time?
Don't really care anymore.
--
Steve Sheldon [These are my own opinions]
Iowa State University ICSS Resource Facility by day
she...@iastate.edu ProMap, Inc. by night
Joseph E. Beck
mar...@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:
> > > Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
> > It was only 5 captains. Balton would have lived. Hell, I'd probably
> > live.
> It was 6 captains. zeesh, humans just have *no* memory.
> P.S. He did live.
Well, we never got to test Balton. Had to settle for this upstart,
twinky base named Videodrome.
> P.P.S. 5? You have a decent shot. 6? I doubt it.
These ARE captains (as stipulated in original post). Also, the task
is rather ill defined. Do they get more than 1 wave? Is there a time
limit or can they just plink? Do they get infinite time to setup the
wave (encircling base perfectly)?
Joseph E. Beck
bo...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom) writes:
> 1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
> better than the major players of today?
are few players who started in the last couple years who can compare
to Spaceace!, Akira, zoom, Red Shirt, (insert your favorite non cmu
hero if you have one :-), etc. Major players of "today" (I'll define
as started in last 2 years), hmm...56 obviously. Some the better MIT
players are getting towards that list. [no insult to west coast
players, there is little clue on wormhole, and i don't get to calvin
much]. The "yale borgs" can compare in terms of skill, still not
quite there yet imo.
> if so, do you think they were/are significantly better? and if so, why?
Yes. Why? Scoreboard. Haven't seen a team without several dinos win
the championship. Then there was this obnoxious team that would even
play down a man, yet few teams could even force OT.
> 2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
Not as skillful, usually not as clueful. Also, I don't know. When I
play against someone really good I'm left wondering "how did they do
that?" (Rob more than anyone else).
> 3) if somehow we could assemble a dream team of sorts, who would win? older
> players or newer players?
Define "newer".
> 4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
Among active players 56 and Spaceace! are in their own class.
Counting non active, I'd have to add Fill.
> 5) most overrated?
Mojo. No offense Tom, you are a GOOD player, but most pickup players make
you our to be godlike.
> most underrated?
choker, lab, tywong (not saying he is great, but is certainly better
than many give him credit for), and many people who aren't on INL
teams (true to sports form, there has to be a long list of "most
underrated" players).
> most skilled?
With so many aspects hard to say. I'd want Rick for basing, Red Shirt
for bombing, and 56 for space controlling. If can find Homer56Shirt
who can do all three at once I'll give him the nod.
> most clued?
I'll let Bert and Erik argue it out.
> best ogger?
The local ones (depends where obviously)
> players i respect of today:
> dan@ohio-state
Yep.
> botelle@upenn
I guess you're defining "of today" as "still around". Justin has been
playing a long time...
> ronk@iastate (don't laugh)
I sort of equate respecting someone with listening to them, don't
think I'd put him on this list.
> jive@spanky (too bad he's gone)
Also quite a dino.
> jiangwu@berkeley
Not sure how long Daneel's been around, good player though.
> madpit@mit
Which one? Subby or Warsong? Does it matter? :-)
> right now who i would consider in the upper echelon of players today (damn,
> i didn't even mention not one cmu player....) ok, possibly el0g or he04
This IS a joke, right? I thought you were listing newer players who
were good. Why do the teams with those silly id's like el0g, he04,
rh3b, nm0w, and wn0a win all those games? If you're listing "true
greats" the only name I'd take from your list is jive. If you'd take
Tywong or Daneel over over el0g you are confused.
> who would you consider the best players of today and all-time?
Dream team of today (in no particular order):
Spaceace! Akira
56 Rick
Red Shirt zhangz
Phantom choker
Interestingly, you didn't mention any of these player in your "true
greats". A further item of note is that these players are on the 2
teams that will probably fight for the championship (as are most of
the people I was considering putting down on this list).
Of all time? Add: Fill, ensign. Drop: Phantom, zhangz. Didn't get
to see Duck in his prime, and don't remember much about terence
(except some newbies at cmu whining the only reason he was good was
that he had less lag than we did :-)
Alec Habig
>Most everyone in the netrek hall of fame deserves
>their fame through many hours clicking the mouse.
So what if we had a Netrek Hall of fame, for kicks? We could use the baseball
rules (mentioned on at least 80% of the ballots, everybody gets 5(?) votes).
Of course, we couldn't limit it to retirees, of course, because that's famously
nebulous around here. Needs tuning - maybe 60% and we all get 8 votes? Run a
vote each semester intead of each year.
We'd need an automatic vote sorting machine - Leonard, you still got the NBR
stuff? Or it could be added to the Xmosaic site.
Alec
(Entropy)
Kevin M Bernatz
first! Brian Od...@silver.ucs.in (1714)
ok, possibly el0g or he04
who would you consider the best players of today and all-time?
--------
I'm sorry, but anyone who doesn't put Spaceace! (rh3b) in the top 1
(no.. not top 1% and not top 10), just doesn't even deserve to speak
about clue.
-KB
Akira
P.S. How about 'most obnoxious', 'most disliked' and 'biggest asshole'?
I bet I win more of these than Tom :).
Andrew Markiel
> 1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
> better than the major players of today? if so, do you think they were/are
> significantly better? and if so, why?
yes, yes, see next question.
> 2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
practice, practice, practice. You get better by playing lots and lots. In
particular, if you play very much in a short period of real time then you
will be a lot better, since you get your timing perfected. Combat especially
requires lots of practice time.
The older players tended to be real die-hards. Spaceace used to not be very
good; he got better by playing pretty much every evening for a year or so.
Try doing anything for an hour every day and find out how good you get. Rob's
really been plummeting lately, because he doesn't have as much time to play
as he used to, and you can see his dogfighting getting worse. Naturally he's
still really good, but not as dominating as he was a while back.
Nowadays there are few people, even among the older players, who really play
a lot. Erik's an obvious exception, which is how he got so good so fast. I
don't know any other players who are really packing in the hours. The game
is attracting a lot of people who do other things besides netrek, and thus
don't have the time to devote huge amounts of time to be the best. Because
of this, they play well but don't reach that level of complete domination you
get by playing 300, 400, 500+ hours a year.
Of course, raw hours aren't everything (see tywong ;) you also need something
extra, some raw talent and clue. However, you need to practice to develop the
potential.
> 4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
Oh, this is so hard. There are a lot of players who were really great, really
dominating, for the short time that they were practicing a lot. There are
fewer players who are consistently good over a long period of time.
Gaiden was the raw best player I ever saw, yes, including Spaceace. Gaiden
would play at CMU from Berkeley, over TCP, and kick the crap out of everyone.
I've never seen anyone so completely crush everyone. Of course, I played with
him last year in a game, apparently after he'd been gone for a while, and he
wasn't really any good at all. You lose it if you don't play.
For best over an extended time, here would be my list:
Duck Dodgers has always been the best ogger. He's just amazing, my motto
is "Duck never misses". Probably the best player for the longest period
of time.
Outside the Berkeley group, the two best have to be Spaceace and Red Shirt.
Both have simply raked in the hours and have played consistently well for
years. I miss the days when they were Ensigns and I could walk through them
with impunity ;)
I can't think of any other people who really stand out as equally incredible.
For every notch you drop you add in another half dozen people, but for the
absolute best that have affected the game for the longest, I think these
three stand out above everyone else.
-Grey Elf
mar...@callisto.pas.rochester.edu
Tom Holub
Joseph E. Beck <jb...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
)
)mar...@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel) writes:
)> > > Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
)> > It was only 5 captains. Balton would have lived. Hell, I'd probably
)> > live.
)> It was 6 captains. zeesh, humans just have *no* memory.
)Do you have any articles from the original thread lying around?
No, but we do have a hard copy of a Postscript document someone created to
work on their Postscript fu which shows 6 captains ogging a base, and is
captioned "This is 6 CAPTAINS! --Balton"
-Tom
5150
Steven Sierb <si...@elvis.umd.umich.edu> wrote:
>"get a life play Netrek"... hehehehe... I had to laugh at that one!
>I am tempted to say that I have that atttitude... EVEN though it might
>cost me my girlfriend!!!
So get her to play. Or get a girlfriend that already plays.
5150
--
Hardly language. Just Beckwith.
- Pope Clifton I, Royston
Felix Sebastian Gallo
>Joseph E. Beck (jb...@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:
>> wa...@db.toronto.edu (Huaiqing Wang) writes:
>> > Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
>> It was only 5 captains. Balton would have lived. Hell, I'd probably
>> live.
>It was 6 captains. zeesh, humans just have *no* memory.
>-Grey Elf
>P.S. He did live.
He did? I thought it was never attempted on Balton (although
I do remember everyone from CMU saying he would win no problem).
I think Wreck or someone tried and was vanquished pretty summarily,
even when it was pure ogging with no plinking.
>P.P.S. 5? You have a decent shot. 6? I doubt it.
Especially not if the 6 included Ged, rjones, Crowbar, myself,
and so forth, as it did at that time.
Justin Botelle
>
>>1) do you think the older players (Akira, MUCUS PIG, Stiletto, etc.) were/are
>>better than the major players of today? if so, do you think they were/are
>>significantly better? and if so, why?
>
>The older players have Godlike status :) because at the time they were MUCH MUCH
>better than the other players out there...as time passed everybody started getting
>better. I was fortunate enough to play in some of those Bronco afternoon games,
Or maybe they were MUCH MUCH better than you? And you've improved?
>and there was great since of team work (even better than some inl teams I have
>played on). Still whenever you see Akira, Spaceace, or Fill you can count on
>escort and ogging.
>
Uh, yeah, sure :)
If you see Jeeves, yes (and Garcon' too :)
>>2) what exactly makes the newer players not good as their older counterparts?
>
>Newer players have the physical skills but not the finer points of clue. Without
>saying Akira or Spaceace will leave a wounded player floating around instead of
>killing them when it is strategically important. I was escorting someone on calvin
>and had added up my phasor hits PERFECTLY to leave the only rom between us and
>Tau wounded at warp 2...The carrier freaking decides to shoot him and dies at
>Tau from the the freshly resurected rom...
So you're proving your point by using a random twink who doesn't necessarily
even have the "physical skills" per above.
>>3) if somehow we could assemble a dream team of sorts, who would win? older
>>players or newer players?
>
>We have a dream team of sorts...The Heros...kick off Crowbar, And Elvis and add
>woof, Akira, Red Shirt, and Crunchy Frog (Jay and cress are gonna flame me!)
>(egads!! I added a usc person to the list :)
(1) Add an e.
(2) The first 3 were considered but for various reasons didn't want to.
(3) I'd rather have jay and cress bombing than woof and Akira. Really.
>
>>4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
>
>Beats me.
>
There's no one answer. Do you want ogger, base, scum, all around, etc.
>>5) most overrated? most underrated? most talented? most skilled? most
>>clued? best ogger? best dogfighter? etc....
>
>Most overrated: SpaceGhost...he has no clue what is going on and cannot dogfight
> worth shit but always volunteers to space control ;)
>Most underrated: Tywong...not that he is any good but he has consistent locks.
He has a bad reputation, and his posts haven't helped him any...
>Most talented: Spaceace...not really talent but just SHEER hours and experience.
This is hard to refute.. :)
>Most skilled: at what?
>Most clued: Red Shirt...not really clue...but I think he is innovative in some
> respects...and he just doesn't tell me I fucked up...but WHAT exactly
/Bert can be very inconsistent. Some of his strategies have been great, others
have been disastrous (see Shannon's CMU-Laggu game)
> I should have done.
>Best ogger: Beats me...it's a lost art :)
>Best Dogfighter: Fill...cause he won the tourney :)
I'd say it wasn't even close. He was just a step beyond anyone. Of course,
that was just recently ;)
>>players i respect of today:
>>dan@ohio-state
>
>A little overrated...
Not by me :) He really isn't as clueless as I tell him he is. He has
some good skills, and just needs some high-clue/INL time to smooth
the edges.
>>botelle@upenn
>
>Whatever happened to TEAM HECTOR! and those hector clones??
What you think all 15 chars on bigbang were started by just one player.
>>ronk@iastate (don't laugh)
>
>HAHAHA!! he has good physical skills (p-locks, dogfighting) but makes
>REAL bad decisions on regular basis.
Ego. Desperately afflicted with the need to be accepted. Trying too
hard to do well (overestimating yourself) will make you look clueless
(I know :)
>
>>jive@spanky (too bad he's gone)
>
>Good player.
Good? Good? At the "end" he even started to be a great taker. Considering
his hours, and rob's lack of, I wouldn't hesitate to say he surpassed rob.
>
>>jiangwu@berkeley
>
>hmm not that good is he?? have not trekked with him much.
Excellent dogfighter. Been playing a *long* time.
>-Dennis SpaceGhost
Justin
Justin Botelle
>gch...@eden.rutgers.edu (Greg Chung) writes, in the midst of much deletia:
>>Most everyone in the netrek hall of fame deserves
>>their fame through many hours clicking the mouse.
>
>So what if we had a Netrek Hall of fame, for kicks? We could use the baseball
>rules (mentioned on at least 80% of the ballots, everybody gets 5(?) votes).
>Of course, we couldn't limit it to retirees, of course, because that's famously
Hmm.. that was my idea, cept that I would have been more aristocratic about it
(hand selecting the people who would actually vote and require that the
nominees had been retired at least 18 months).
>nebulous around here. Needs tuning - maybe 60% and we all get 8 votes? Run a
>vote each semester intead of each year.
I see an immediate problem. There are 13 Heroes.
>
>We'd need an automatic vote sorting machine - Leonard, you still got the NBR
>stuff? Or it could be added to the Xmosaic site.
>
> Alec
> (Entropy)
Justin
(sorry to be a snob, but I"m not sure I'd like a system where a twink like
Lynx gets the same vote as Spaceace!)
Justin Botelle
>> 4) who do you think is the all-time best netrek player(s)?
>Among active players 56 and Spaceace! are in their own class.
Uh oh. Better call Scott Drellishak. Joe's so far up Erik's butt, we need
SFOP to get him out.
>Counting non active, I'd have to add Fill.
>> 5) most overrated?
>> most underrated?
This is assuming there's some consensus on these players.
>> most skilled?
>With so many aspects hard to say. I'd want Rick for basing, Red Shirt
>for bombing, and 56 for space controlling. If can find Homer56Shirt
>who can do all three at once I'll give him the nod.
Hmmm. Rick needs some base practice (sorry, rick, but I've seen you take
waves like the one TA threw at you (I killed 2, locked 3) without any
escorts and without even scratching your hull.
I'd rather have Tiny bombing, and for space controlling? I like Blojo.
Fill, of course, when he finally scums himself some net access.
>> most clued?
>I'll let Bert and Erik argue it out.
They're good arguers :)
>> best ogger?/
>The local ones (depends where obviously)
I think effective ogging requires 2 players. One to flush, or cut off (or
both)
>Not sure how long Daneel's been around, good player though.
One of the dino of dinos.
>This IS a joke, right? I thought you were listing newer players who
>were good. Why do the teams with those silly id's like el0g, he04,
>rh3b, nm0w, and wn0a win all those games? If you're listing "true
Well, nm0w alone is 3 players :) They've all been on different teams
(was SS the only one they played together). But for SS, look at
the competition... Most of the at large teams were in disarray, which
is part of the reason that Heroes came to be.
> No-look Pass!
Justin
(who's just plain stupid [tm] for even replying to this thread, esp
on joe's post)
Erik Lauer
> player or team? I haven't been around for long myself, but I though Seven
>Samurai was probably the best team I've seen.
Best two teams I have seen are WhatEver and Side Salad - never saw
team Wiz though.
David Lyon
My top 5 at the beginning of '94:
1: BB-4 (FITB)
2: el0g
3: rh3b
4: Akira
5: Tiny Elvis!!!!!!
West coast players kiss tywong's ass. None of the top 20 players are
from the west coast, except Tom some days. Probably because they learn on
calvin, weenie capital of the world. The top 20 weenies are evenly
distributed, though.
WeenieBlaster
Oh yeah:
20: WeenieBlaster
William Katz
>> > > Balton vs 8 Captain debate.
>> > It was only 5 captains. Balton would have lived. Hell, I'd probably
>> > live.
>> It was 6 captains. zeesh, humans just have *no* memory.
>Do you have any articles from the original thread lying around?
>
>> P.S. He did live.
>Well, we never got to test Balton. Had to settle for this upstart,
>twinky base named Videodrome.
I think he got nailed with fewer than 6 ships. With no escort,
... was it 4 ships? Wasn't it also at CMU so rick could get
decent lag?
>
>> P.P.S. 5? You have a decent shot. 6? I doubt it.
>These ARE captains (as stipulated in original post). Also, the task
>is rather ill defined. Do they get more than 1 wave? Is there a time
>limit or can they just plink? Do they get infinite time to setup the
>wave (encircling base perfectly)?
We should have kept the posts back then, because all those "captains"
are now Admiral-level reasonable clue in the INL. The thing that
was constantly neglected back then was CLUE != RANK, and when it
comes to base ogging the experience mostly comes in when avoiding
the base escort (which was absent in the test) and uncloak syncing.
-Vlad (aka D'Spayre)
Dennis K Lee
> My top 5 at the beginning of '94:
>1: BB-4 (FITB)
>2: el0g
>3: rh3b
>4: Akira
>5: Tiny Elvis!!!!!!
> West coast players kiss tywong's ass. None of the top 20 players are
>from the west coast, except Tom some days. Probably because they learn on
>calvin, weenie capital of the world. The top 20 weenies are evenly
>distributed, though.
So...where exactly do you play netrek?? only 4 places are popular nowadays
calvin, wormhole, uml, and bigbang...the first two are west coast...and I
don't see you on the last two. WHERE DO YOU PLAY?? GARNET??
>WeenieBlaster
>Oh yeah:
>20: WeenieBlaster
So you would not put Crunchy Frog, Sandia, Hell Peacock, Duck, or Cookie Monster
in the top 20?? Not to mention a whole slew of others...
-SpaceGhost
David M F Brewster
>In article <Feb.21.07.01...@eden.rutgers.edu>,
>Greg Chung <gch...@eden.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>>CMU. Assuming that you could pick everyone at the peak of their skill, you
>>would have to mention people like Spaceace!, Red Shirt, ensign, Quar, Phantom,
>>Yea Boy!!!!!, Val Ckurai, etc...
>Already been done with Team Wizard, arguably the most powerful team in INL
>history -- and still has the record with a 6 minute, 50 second genocide.
I don't think it should count unless you play against another team :)
>Wiz
David DOA
(I just had my disc quota reduced to 1 MB for playing netrek. The
fascistic administrator needs adjusted)
(Btw, Torvill and Dean should CLEARLY have won...if i see any of those
judges on a server i'll ogg them out the game )
Steven R. Sheldon
>> West coast players kiss tywong's ass. None of the top 20 players are
>>from the west coast, except Tom some days. Probably because they learn on
>>calvin, weenie capital of the world. The top 20 weenies are evenly
>>distributed, though.
>So...where exactly do you play netrek?? only 4 places are popular nowadays
>calvin, wormhole, uml, and bigbang...the first two are west coast...and I
>don't see you on the last two. WHERE DO YOU PLAY?? GARNET??
netrek.neosoft.com, dude! :)
Actually, the way things have been working on bigbang, I swear my iastate
server has got to have less lag.
>So you would not put Crunchy Frog, Sandia, Hell Peacock, Duck, or Cookie Monster
>in the top 20?? Not to mention a whole slew of others...
Hmm, Crunchy Frog and Duck maybe. Sandia and Hell Peacock ought to retire
and live a life of luxury dreaming about ogging Exodus!!!. :)
Of course, we must not forget that DrDeath deserves his place in the top
ten.
Steve
What you haven't heard of DrDeath?
Greg Chung
>> player or team? I haven't been around for long myself, but I though Seven
>>Samurai was probably the best team I've seen.
>Best two teams I have seen are WhatEver and Side Salad - never saw
>team Wiz though.
Heh... Seven Samurai is essentially WE and SS, and to an extent AA.
The main reason why those teams were exceptional was the cohesion brought about
by the hours and hours of common play by the "core" players: starting with AA
there were Rob, Rick, Ray, Bert, Court?, John, Hugh, etc.
The "Dinner Club" idea developed after AA to form a strong core of players.
(*) The SS team was mostly Rob, Rick, Ray, Court, John, etc... along with
Scorn! and Duck and Bill and Ceri. The SS core was split into LT (Rob, Bill)
and SYM (Ceri, Rick, plus Scorn! and John) while LT picked up the remnants of
the XG team (Kevin, Joo, Chris, Nanci, Bert, Brian, Tom). Then the "core"
reformed into WE and 7S. The common thread here is probably Rob was his own
group of followers 8-) (**)
IMO, this is probably the main cause of the recent CMU dominance despite
increasing individual skill by externals and decreasing play by CMU internals.
Ensign Second Coming
(*) Yes, I still hold a grudge.
(**) ...Not to compare Rob to Hugh...
joseph rumsey
: >So...where exactly do you play netrek?? only 4 places are popular nowadays
: >calvin, wormhole, uml, and bigbang...the first two are west coast...and I
: >don't see you on the last two. WHERE DO YOU PLAY?? GARNET??
: netrek.neosoft.com, dude! :)
Which is where? Someone guessed Texas. Just curious, since the
motd doesn't give any hint at all where it is. Have noticed that lag
is better for west coasters, or maybe we just complain less since
we're used to bigbang and uml lag ;-)
: Actually, the way things have been working on bigbang, I swear my iastate
: server has got to have less lag.
Yeah what happened to bigbang? I used to be able to play there
almost as smoothly as calvin, but it's gone downhill(still better than
UML though)
Joe
Andy McFadden
>> player or team? I haven't been around for long myself, but I though Seven
>>Samurai was probably the best team I've seen.
>
>Best two teams I have seen are WhatEver and Side Salad - never saw
>team Wiz though.
Anybody remember The Horsemen! ? Had names like Pestilence!, Plague!,
and so on? I think they won the all-time signal-to-noise ratio award...
--
fad...@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
"Our UNIX is bigger than your UNIX"
[ These are my opinions, not Amdahl policies. ]
Herbert Enderton
gunes "zogg"
yarvin
"Your Mother"
jkelley
ch4g, mcb1, yc0d(?), & other unheralded cmu players
"Dog Tags"
chafey
chclee
Also underrated even though people think they're good (they're great):
ronk/tywong (though he was better as a pure DD scum)
britta
"BB-1"
ztfeng
xwuw
hn0d
That's just off the top of my head -- I'm sure there are lots more
people I would list if I happened to think of them.
-- Red Shirt (overrated)
Justin Botelle
>In article <khOLba600...@andrew.cmu.edu> Erik Lauer <el...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Anybody remember The Horsemen! ? Had names like Pestilence!, Plague!,
>and so on? I think they won the all-time signal-to-noise ratio award...
Horsemen? Horsemen? Oh, they were the team that played the Sportsmen!
to a draw. (Of course one could conclude that their lab really wasn't
filling up when we were pushing on their front line :)
>fad...@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
>
>"Our UNIX is bigger than your UNIX"
>[ These are my opinions, not Amdahl policies. ]
Justin
Jonathan Hardwick
Sure looks that way:
~ $ whois neosoft.com
NeoSoft (NEOSOFT-DOM)
3408 Mangum
Houston, Texas, 77092
Jonathan H., j...@cs.cmu.edu Keeper Of The Netrek Archives
If you use WAIS, try the netrek-ftp db on port 6000 of gourd.srv.cs.cmu.edu.
If you have a WWW client, wais://gourd.srv.cs.cmu.edu:6000/netrek-ftp has an
index. http://www.cs.cmu.edu:8001/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jch/www/home.html has
the text. If you have AFS, look in /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jch/netrek. If you
have none of these, use anonymous FTP to gs69.sp.cs.cmu.edu (128.2.206.167).
Gregory L Yantz
|> Underrated players (you'll likely say "who?" but they kick butt):
|> gunes "zogg"
|> yarvin
Does he even play anymore? Make sure you know where he is when you're
carrying...
|> "Your Mother"
|> jkelley
|> ch4g, mcb1, yc0d(?), & other unheralded cmu players
There is still a reason they are unheralded. Close, but not quite.
|> "Dog Tags"
Fine SC player, except he tries to fight CA's too much.
|> chafey
|> chclee
I know Chris. He is skilled, but has no idea yet what team play is about.
He is actually a terrible influence on new players at MIT. We all cringe
when we see Chris at work on a new player... remember "dossy" and "stussy"?
|> Also underrated even though people think they're good (they're great):
|> ronk/tywong (though he was better as a pure DD scum)
If he knew anything about the game except how to make his stats look
good, he would be truly impressive.
|> britta
Really? I have never seen anyone play from that account with any skills.
Needs his entire INL team to help him/her scum on pickup servers...
|> "BB-1"
|> ztfeng
Everyone knows about him. Funny, but he actually is harder to kill when he
turns off his auto-features. Remarkable.
|> xwuw
Suddenly goes from being a total freekill twink to being a devastating
killing machine (but still a twink). Is the major reason we all KNOW
the Yale players use borgs on pickup servers.
|> hn0d
|> That's just off the top of my head -- I'm sure there are lots more
|> people I would list if I happened to think of them.
|>
|> -- Red Shirt (overrated)
Greg / choker (I made Joe's dream team! I'm a somebody! ;)
Mark Mach Stoltzfus
Jonathan Hardwick <jc...@cs.cmu.edu> wrote:
>jru...@ucrengr.ucr.edu (joseph rumsey) writes
>> Which is where? Someone guessed Texas.
>Sure looks that way:
>~ $ whois neosoft.com
>NeoSoft (NEOSOFT-DOM)
> 3408 Mangum
> Houston, Texas, 77092
800 ms pings to Bigbang(intermittent). Something is rotten in the state of
Delaware.
Mark
-Mangy Dogg
Pearl Jelly
>Hey what does Stiletto do nowadays?
>He still posts but HE DOES NOT PLAY!?!?!
>I think Greg is still living in the 'good ole' days :)
>COME ON GET A LIFE!!! PLAY NETREK!!! :)
is it true? Is Master Greg Chung still Mudding? (Rumors overheard)
Wondering?
-Thor
5150
>Underrated players (you'll likely say "who?" but they kick butt):
> gunes "zogg"
Who? (i don't play enough. i'm working on it)
> yarvin
Not underrated by me. Good dogfighter. Good plocker.
> jkelley
Good for morale. New, but sharp.
> ch4g, mcb1, yc0d(?), & other unheralded cmu players
I never underestimate any CMU player. ch4g (Jizzlobber) is a good escort.
> chafey
Best new Chico player.
> chclee
Too scummy. :)
>Also underrated even though people think they're good (they're great):
> ronk/tywong (though he was better as a pure DD scum)
I will always think he's no good simply because he's a poor team
player. Like sechang@usc; very skilled, but little team skills.
> britta
Which britta? Dandelion or wedgie?
> "BB-1"
I liked him better before he became a Buddy.
> ztfeng
Underrated??? ARE YOU NUTS?
> xwuw
A tfeng clone. Not as good, but good enough.
> hn0d
Isn't he JOKER? Like, one of the best bases nowadays?
> -- Red Shirt (overrated)
Me too. I played the other day and came to the conclusion i'm sucking
worse than ever. Now that i actually WORK to live instead of spending
all day playing, it's just sad...
5150
are all of you idiots doing your best to promote netrek in your
workplace/school to get more new players?
--
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way.
Zuwei T. Feng
The following people impress me a lot, but they are not known to many:
t...@cs.brown.edu / Scamp / used to be the best space controller on SNL,
a Phantom II in skill and style.
ari...@eng.umich.edu / buehgler / very high-clued player, good at many
roles, from space controlling to agressive scout bombing.
beust?@???.fr / Rael / if he plays in the US, he'll be the best ogger.
Rococo / Odysseus
(underrated myself...)
Herbert Enderton
veitzer "Acetocholine"
orendorf (only seen him once)
Fuzzy Bunny
addisonp (best SC player)
mascarin, madisett, other SC players other than Crunchy
lab (best in Europe)
mcfadden "Shadowspawn"
Charity
yangq (borg :))
stoltzfus "Mangy Dogg"
rabid dog (haven't seen him around)
ruggie
Mojo Riser (unless you think he's God)
Clarifications from my last such post:
"wedgie" was the britta player I was thinking of
forget I said ztfeng
yes hn0d is JOKER, but I like him better as a scum than as base
-- Red Shirt
Jay Thaler
>More underrated players:
>
>lab (best in Europe)
Beware.. this "best in Europe" will soon be an import. He will be
taking up residence in Ann Arbor, Michigan (or there abouts). I warn
you, he is even better when the lag isn't a factor. Plus he's a nice
guy in real life.
> -- Red Shirt
-Jay / Crowbar
"There are nice guys in real life?"
Michael Moore
People who don't cry **DOOSH** or otherwise scream their glory to
the ALL board after killing a carrier.
People who compliment their teammates when they do something
good.
People who don't give a shit about dying with armies so long as
they tried their best to get them to their destination.
People who respect their teammates, even if they suck.
People who don't use macros every five seconds.
Imposing netrek personalities that don't treat you like shit one
day and the next attempt flattery to appease you.
People who realize even though they have two kills, so does everyone
else on their team and they should stay at the front anyway.
Starbases who use the third-space distraction, and teams that know
how to use it.
Starbases who don't mind dying so the carrier can take that central
agrii.
New players with the humility to admit they don't know what the
hell they're doing.
Starbases that don't yell *KCAMS* or other such explicatives to the
ALL board everytime they hit something with a plasma.
Players who stick to their team for richer or poorer.
People playing over SLIP that are still sane.
And most of all ::::::::::::::::
People who don't ever, EVER, EVERRRRRRR say "Balton would have lived".
-Michael (Ged ... an older player who's lost his edge, and is
reminded of it constantly by his former counterparts ...
God->ALL R2 (Ged) was kill 4.0 for F1 (Crowbar)
R2->F1 Sigh
F1->R2 You suck, Ged.
)
James Ivey
Ged raises his prehistoric voice :
[Details of who sucks and why..]
11110111100101
Hm.. only scored 10/14. I suck.
> -Michael (Ged ... an older player who's lost his edge, and is
> reminded of it constantly by his former counterparts ...
> God->ALL R2 (Ged) was kill 4.0 for F1 (Crowbar)
> R2->F1 Sigh
> F1->R2 You suck, Ged. )
God->ALL pesky (SC) was kill 1.00 for Ged (DD)
God->ALL pesky (SC) was kill 2.00 for Ged (DD)
God->ALL Ged (DD) was kill 1.20 for pesky (SC)
God->ALL pesky (SC) was kill 1.12 for Ged (DD)
God->ALL pesky (SC) was kill 2.12 for Ged (DD)
pesky->pesky This sucks. huh huh
God->ALL Ged (DD) was kill 1.21 for Goliath (BB)
God->ALL Ged (DD) was kill 2.21 for Goliath (BB)
God->ALL Ged (DD) was kill 3.21 for Goliath (BB)
Goliath->Ged You suck, Ged.
Gregory L Yantz
|> In article <CLroB9...@cs.cmu.edu> hd...@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton) writes:
|> >More underrated players:
|> >
|> >lab (best in Europe)
|>
|> Beware.. this "best in Europe" will soon be an import. He will be
|> taking up residence in Ann Arbor, Michigan (or there abouts). I warn
|> you, he is even better when the lag isn't a factor. Plus he's a nice
|> guy in real life.
Yup. In the ET-FL game, we couldn't kill him. He was often seen running
around in an 11-kill CA. And the lag wasn't bad for us.
And he's coming here? Cool. :)
|> > -- Red Shirt
|>
|> -Jay / Crowbar
|> "There are nice guys in real life?"
Greg / Sir Charles
Jonathan Kelley
carriers, help needed, etc? I know I personally have a tendency to overuse
my 3 macros (help@this planet, this planet@2 armies, and SC bomber needed).
^^^
generally a useless macro which I use too much
> Starbases who use the third-space distraction, and teams that know
>how to use it.
(Let me preface: I don't really know much of anything.)
Now, is this REALLY all that much of a great tactic? I've only seen
you do it (once, as I'm new) on bigbang, and you were drawing 3 guys who
were obviously not very organized, and not very skilled. We could have had
them contesting takes, sure, but having them out in 3rd space also meant
3 free kills that we weren't getting. I'd much rather have the army storage
that a front-line base gives (I remember we weren't getting too heavily
bombed, but if we had been...) Sure I know, we'll supposedly crush the
other team on sure numbers since we have a two-man advantage, but I'm
still unconvinced... Could you (or anyone else) explain in more detail
about this tactic, and if it is worth it?
> -Michael (Ged ... an older player who's lost his edge, and is
> reminded of it constantly by his former counterparts ...
> God->ALL R2 (Ged) was kill 4.0 for F1 (Crowbar)
> R2->F1 Sigh
> F1->R2 You suck, Ged.
> )
-Jonathan Kelley (aka Ulysses, Snoop Oggy Ogg)
jke...@cco.caltech.edu
Michael Moore
>
>Is this helpful in the long run? As a base I'll take a lot of damage
>to escort an important take, but I won't go if I expect to die. If the
>base had to die to take the planet, will the team be able to hold it
>without a base?
>
It depends on the situation. If your team is relatively even
or slightly better than the opponent, the SB may be the only way to assure
a hard take. In such cases, your team should be expected to be capable of
defending the agrii once the SB explodes.
If your team is significantly worse than the enemy, it's probably
not a good idea. In fact, if your team is that bad off you might consider
hoarding armies and staying slightly behind the front... minimize the
damage which will inevitably ensue as much as possible.
If your team is better, then who needs the SB at all?
My assertion is based on my observations in netrek games I've
played in. I've seen scores of games won because an agrii take stuck
(Of course this comes no where near the running total of games won
because of clue fluctuation).
To summarize, my intention was to praise those who are willing to
die for an agrii when it matters. There are a vast number of starbases who
are extremely excellent players, but who have this notion that dying in
an SB is always bad unless you take the other SB with you. I disagree
with this idea.
-Michael (Ged)
Michael Moore
>
> Do you mean annoying 5-line macros to All, or team macros on
>carriers, help needed, etc? I know I personally have a tendency to overuse
>my 3 macros (help@this planet, this planet@2 armies, and SC bomber needed).
Sorry, I meant five-line macros to the all board.
>you do it (once, as I'm new) on bigbang, and you were drawing 3 guys who
>were obviously not very organized, and not very skilled. We could have had
>them contesting takes, sure, but having them out in 3rd space also meant
>3 free kills that we weren't getting. I'd much rather have the army storage
>that a front-line base gives (I remember we weren't getting too heavily
>bombed, but if we had been...) Sure I know, we'll supposedly crush the
>other team on sure numbers since we have a two-man advantage, but I'm
>still unconvinced... Could you (or anyone else) explain in more detail
>about this tactic, and if it is worth it?
I don't know that I can elaborate any further than what you just
said. Your points and counter-points are pretty much what I'd mention.
The question is whether or not the net gain is better. I say it is,
and I've gathered data enough to feel confident in that. Even without
a team capable of orchestrating with a distraction into third-space,
I've more often watched my team gain two or three planets than lose them.
This I attribute to the numbers-advantage the team is enjoying for the
duration of my distraction. At first I was worried it was just coincidence,
but after at least 60 tries, I think it's more than that.
Big problems arise when people decide to help the SB. This really
ruins the whole tactic.
I can only dream of what a team which could orchestrate with this
tactic would be like. Perhaps I should find an INL team willing to work
with it and find out just how impactive it is in a high-clue game (I have
virtually no data for this situation).
Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
-Michael (Ged - who's popularity just plummeted further in his
clandescent admittance of a disposition towards country
music)
Tom Holub
John F Carr <j...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
)In article <2kkvbh...@hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu>,
)Michael Moore <m...@cis.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
)
)> Starbases who don't mind dying so the carrier can take that central
)>agrii.
)
)Is this helpful in the long run? As a base I'll take a lot of damage
)to escort an important take, but I won't go if I expect to die. If the
)base had to die to take the planet, will the team be able to hold it
)without a base?
Bases are useful for 3 things:
1) Space control/safe haven
2) Army storage
3) Forward fuel and refit
It's also sometimes useful to have a base if the "good" players on the
other team are the type that always ogg the base, but I'll discuss the
general case. I also will ignore transwarp because it sucks.
Whenever you are thinking about sacrificing the base, you need to consider
that you will lose the above advantages. On a pickup server, 2) is usually
not important, since if your team is winning the other team probably isn't
bombing. 3) depends on the planet layout; if there are good fuel and repair
planets, it's not that important. 1) can be useful, but in my experience
space control becomes a non-issue in pickup games once a team loses its
last AGRI. So I think it's a good move to sacrifice the base to take
the last AGRI assuming the other team has no free armies. After I died
I would get a SC and remain on bombing duty until we'd scout-dropped them
enough that the AGRI was safe.
New Mojo Policy: send :ita to anyone who argues about "which planet to
save for LPS," or maybe just quit out, because if the "clued" players on
your team are spending time worrying about that, they almost certainly
have no clue how to genocide.
-Tom
Justin Botelle
>New Mojo Policy: send :ita to anyone who argues about "which planet to
>save for LPS," or maybe just quit out, because if the "clued" players on
>your team are spending time worrying about that, they almost certainly
>have no clue how to genocide.
Sometimes I'll try to explain that if they're not spending any effort
defending a planet, then they don't deserve to own it (and it's army
production).
And of course there's nothing worse than to be on a team that finally is
able to take the home planet under heavy fire and then realizes that
now that Den is the last planet, it's just as hard to take...
I've even seen a team hang onto Rig against Orions after llosing everything
else, and saving up to take Alp agri.
> -Tom
Commander Nicest Guy!(tm)
Tom Holub
Justin Botelle <bot...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
)In article <dooshCL...@netcom.com> do...@netcom.com (Tom Holub) writes:
)
)And of course there's nothing worse than to be on a team that finally is
)able to take the home planet under heavy fire and then realizes that
)now that Den is the last planet, it's just as hard to take...
)
)I've even seen a team hang onto Rig against Orions after llosing everything
)else, and saving up to take Alp agri.
A couple weeks ago Ginsu, who should know better, was arguing (we were
Rom vs. Fed) that we should leave El Nath (in Orion space) for LPS since
it would be so much easier to take than the Fed core.
Nevermind the fact that we never got anywhere near the Fed core.
-Tom
Daniel E Damouth
>In <roneCLp...@netcom.com> ro...@netcom.com (5150) writes:
>>> "Your Mother"
>I believe this is jscj. Nice guy. Unfortunately a data point in the "ratings
>plus GPA equals constant" survey.
>
Actually, I think the poster meant marcush from umich, a good player who's been getting
better and better. He also plays as "Your Father", a more offensive character :)
Charity