LegendMud Opening
Fisdon Crowley
ARE YOU TIRED OF KILLING ORCS?
OF SEEING MIDGAARD?
OF MUDS THAT CONFINE YOU TO UNNATURAL CLASS SYSTEMS?
Announcing the Official Opening of LegendMUD, a classless mud with
ALL NEW areas! *stimpy.washcoll.edu 4000 or 192.146.226.4 4000*
LegendMUD is a history-based mud--instead of wandering in fantasy-land
you get to explore the history of the Earth--not as it was, but as it was
believed to be at the time. See where the legends came from as you visit
Roman Britain, the Arabian Nights, and the Middle Ages. Be a Tai-Pan on
the China Tea Trade in 1841, or help fight Rommel the Desert Fox in World
War II North Africa.
Our classless system and dozens of skills allow you to build your character
exactly the way you want based on a percentile stat system. Our stat system
more accurately reflects the things you most need to know about your
character. Our special practice system eliminates the cumbersome juggling
of percentages you've become used to.
We have three eras of time with 1500 rooms open to the public, and more
entering the game constantly. Our code is stable -- no constant crashes
or lags. And we're DIFFERENT: we promise to be a mud unlike any other you've
played. Come learn our herb-based magic system, with over 100 possible
affects and associated spells!
We research the historical periods for our areas in both fact-based and
fanciful books. Our mobs are INTELLIGENT, with a wide range of reactions
to what you say and do. Play blackjack with notorious criminal Big Jim
Southland on the seamy side of London in the mid 19th century. Try to
solve the riddle of the lamp and win Aladdin his princess!
LegendMUD is a school-sponsored mud located at stimpy.washcoll.edu 4000
(192.146.226.4 4000) and will be open to the public by 6 pm Valentine's Day.
Come see what MUDs should have been all along! A challenge for the mind
and the sword arm, a feast for the imagination, and of course, plain fun.
LegendMUD: 192.146.226.4 4000
stimpy.washcoll.edu 4000
Implementors: Charity & Sadist
Other immortals: Ptah, Kaige, Flagg, Breton, Chocorua, Fionn, Mania, Ulath,
Pan, Talesian
Current areas: Arabian Nights, Roman Britain, Ancient Ireland, Ancient Nazca,
Medieval Kleinstadt, St. Denis Cathedral, the Black Forest,
Sherwood Forest, Viceroyal Peru, Pirates of the Caribbean,
Port of London 1841, Sargasso Sea, China Tea Trade from
London to Bengal, Macao, and South Seas, Casablanca, and
World War II North Africa.
Highly modified Merc. New skills. Classless system with new stat system.
Extensive herb-based druidic magic. Full proprietary room and mob acts.
Mounts. Social channels. Socials operate on items! Furniture items.
A clan pkill system (in progress). Many quests for all level players.
COME SEE WHAT THE REAL WORLD CAN OFFER
Russ Taylor
*sigh*
Why does EVERY dime-store mud programmer claim to be able to create
'intelligent' mobs? Trust me, if you could, you'd be rich and famous.
Hell, I doubt any mud out there can even outdo ultima :)
--
The opinions put forth in this article are not necessarily the opinions of
the poster. They might just be here to piss you off.
Damion Schubert
Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>
>*sigh*
>
>Why does EVERY dime-store mud programmer claim to be able to create
>'intelligent' mobs? Trust me, if you could, you'd be rich and famous.
>Hell, I doubt any mud out there can even outdo ultima :)
Have you tried LegendMUD?
I thought so. Perhaps you should log on and try it before you flame. I
personally applaud attempts to make muds more than what your average diku
is: a collection of mobs that sit there and wait blithely to be killed.
--Heretic, of CarnageMUD (128.227.133.214 4000) - the ORIGINAL intelligent mob
diku
Russ Taylor
> In article <2jmrmf$9...@pith.uoregon.edu>,
> Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> >
> >*sigh*
> >
> >Why does EVERY dime-store mud programmer claim to be able to create
> >'intelligent' mobs? Trust me, if you could, you'd be rich and famous.
> >Hell, I doubt any mud out there can even outdo ultima :)
> Have you tried LegendMUD?
> I thought so. Perhaps you should log on and try it before you flame. I
> personally applaud attempts to make muds more than what your average diku
> is: a collection of mobs that sit there and wait blithely to be killed.
Okay, you fucking moron. Maybe YOU should learn something about the state
of the art in AI, neural net, and parrallel processing machines. Modern
computer programming is not even CLOSE to reproducing intelligence in
a computerized system, not even to the level of C. elegans, in fact!
The simple fact is AI is so far beyond current computing technology that we
may not see anything beyond the levels of inverterbate life for decades longer!
If someone could EVER program an intelligent system (even learning systems
take more processing power than most people have to throw at a mud, aside
from the relatively trivial genetic algorithims -- I'm talking extrapolating
systems vs. adapting systems), they would be quite famous in the computer
world!
Carnage MUDS claim of 'intelligent' mobs is equally ludicrous. Making a
monster run to a more sophisticated program is laudable, but hardly
intelligent. An intelligent mobile would adapt to it's situation without
further programming, be capable of making predictive actions based on
uncertain data, and above all be able to exceed the limitations of the
instructions programmed into it. These are just the simplest criteria I
can up with, mind you. The folks next door in Neuroscience would probably
find my conditions ridiculously simple. So can your ego act and admit that
what you have is a better PROGRAM -- i.e. set of instructions, not AI.
(I find it hard to believe there are people at Carnage ignorant enough
to claim they wrote AI. Bah. I'll introduce them to some C. elegans modelling
programs over in Neuroscience if they want to see the limitations of
neural modelling these days)
Russ Taylor,
Computer programmer and biology researcher
(lest you doubt my credentials)
Damion Schubert
Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>Damion Schubert put forth into the Codex of Shub-Internet:
>> In article <2jmrmf$9...@pith.uoregon.edu>,
>> Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>> >Why does EVERY dime-store mud programmer claim to be able to create
>> >'intelligent' mobs? Trust me, if you could, you'd be rich and famous.
>> >Hell, I doubt any mud out there can even outdo ultima :)
>
>> Have you tried LegendMUD?
>
>> I thought so. Perhaps you should log on and try it before you flame. I
>> personally applaud attempts to make muds more than what your average diku
>> is: a collection of mobs that sit there and wait blithely to be killed.
>
>Okay, you fucking moron.
I beg to differ. You may think you're talking to someone who still gets his
mother to wipe his ass for him. I would think that you would know better by
now, since this fallacy has cost you in the past. The fact that you take this
so personally suggests to me that perhaps you need to get out more. Your
knowledge on this subject suggests to me that perhaps you should get off ROM
and explore, or play as a player for a while.
Meanwhile, perhaps you should remember something. Insulting language does
NOT make you right. A blatantly dumb post makes you even less so.
>Maybe YOU should learn something about the state
>of the art in AI, neural net, and parrallel processing machines. Modern
>computer programming is not even CLOSE to reproducing intelligence in
>a computerized system, not even to the level of C. elegans, in fact!
I know plenty about the current technology of AI, and I know what level we're
at. If this is what you suggest is what we should be looking for, then you've
defined 'intelligent mobs' in such a fashion that we could not hope to see
them for quite some time. Not even on Ultima.
However, the mudding community has defined 'intelligent mobs' in a different
fashion. Sure, they don't cook your dinner, nor do they sit around and stroke
your ego, and they don't have complicated philisophical discussions. No one
who logs onto a mud expects that when they see 'intelligent mobs' in an
advertisement.
On the other hand, they DO respond to questions (using the same keywords that
Ultima uses), they DO have unique fighting strategies, and they DO move a diku
away from being a simple hack-and-slash to involving thought and planning. A
well-planned mob system can give the muds creator's an infinite amount of
possibilities, designed to delight and horrify the players who encounter them,
and a good creator will design intelligent mobs that will reward the
intelligent player more than the hack-and-slasher. Most other imps out there
think that this would be a good end to aim for. Will the mobs pass a turing
test? Who really gives a flying fuck?
PLAYERS: If the mobs on your mud stand in one place and wait for you to kill
them, over and over again, you're missing out on what a mud can be. You're
probably also bored as hell. Try 'CarnageMUD' or 'LegendMUD' (can't vouch
for it, I've never played it, but their ad started all of this =) for a while,
and see if you don't like thinking for a change.
[mucho deletia]
>Russ Taylor,
>Computer programmer and biology researcher
>(lest you doubt my credentials)
'lest I doubt your credentials'? Do you really talk like that?
--heretic
Naved Surve
> So, what have YOU written lately, asshole?
And later, Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>Okay, you fucking moron.
That attitude will get you nowhere. Admittedly I am not the nicest
person on the net, but your posts of late have made me cringe.
Related to the posts which I have not quoted, I have not tried out
LegendMUD and, until I do, I am not going to say a thing about their
intelligent mob system. Personally, I don't care if their mobs don't
have the intelligence of C. elegans. Considering that the current
intelligence level of most MOBs rates around that of a Ball o' Dirt,
any advancements at all are welcome. I do not expect mobs with the
intelligence of You to be developed overnight, but the effort is
commendable.
-Naved
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Naved A. Surve | The Johns Hopkins University
sur...@server.cs.jhu.edu | Baltimore, Maryland
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
jsc...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
Russ, Russ, Russ, first off, the force of one's arguement is not proportional
to the number of profanities used therin.
Secondly, if you thought anyone out there thought that 'intellegent mobs'
ranked ANYWHERE NEAR THE LIKES OF AI, then you have really underestimated
the intelligence of the readers of this group.
As just about anyone here would tell you, intellegent mobs = mobs with more
and better selected pre-programmed responses. (And, after all, isn't that
about all that's required to reach the intellegence level of many players?)
Russ, need I remind you that the appearance of intellegence is not that hard
to do, or have you never heard of ELIZA before?
jsc...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
neural net into a mob.
"From the birthplace of HAL" Blackstaff
Tim Devlin
>Computer programmer and biology researcher
>(lest you doubt my credentials)
One thing im sure no one doubts.....your ego!
Christ, all he said was that the mobs were intel. not in (im sure EVERYONE
else under stood it) the more simple of terms, he did not claim that is was
some new breakthough in AI programming etc. etc. etc. bleh bleh bleh...
good god, get off you soapbox and go take a pill....
Geez..some people.
Herbert Kremser
|Have you tried LegendMUD?
Intelligent mobs sounds really good. This would be a totally new aspect in mudding.
But actually i couldn't believe it's possible yet, so of to a telnet session and
try it out.
I couldn't connect to LegendMUD, so no chance to proof any intelligence there :(.
So off to "the ORIGINAL intelligent mob diku" CarnageMUD.
This time i got a connection, I played around a bit, not very long i admit, but
no sign of intelligent mobs at all.
Why don't you just admit you have no intelligent mobs? Do we really need this,
my mud is better than your mud, attitude?
Why don't you just say, CarnageMUD has more mob actions than most other diku-muds.
This is already a big advance, but no you must claim mobs are intelligent.
So why should we be surprised if announcements of new muds/features are flamed
or simply not believed, when they most of the time don't keep what they claim.
I think it's better to tell people the truth.
Herbert
--
Yesterday I was a dog. Today I'm a dog. Tomorrow I'll probably still
be a dog. Sigh! There's so little hope for advancement.
-- Snoopy
John Brothers
>In article <2jn7of$f...@pith.uoregon.edu> rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>
>>Okay, you fucking moron. Maybe YOU should learn something about the state
>>of the art in AI, neural net, and parrallel processing machines. Modern
>>computer programming is not even CLOSE to reproducing intelligence in
>>a computerized system, not even to the level of C. elegans, in fact!
>
drivel drivel drivel... Sounds like you're the one with a bad case of
Penis envy here.
The word "intelligent" is being used in thousands of products , basically
anything that has a microchip in it. Networks, HW drivers, etc, etc.
Given this terminology, I find his use of the term "intelligent" perfectly
reasonable. Mobs that ditch useless weapons and pick up better ones are
more "intelligent" than those that don't. Mobs that cast spells effectively
are more "intelligent" than those that don't. The list goes on and on.
If he had said that the mob was artificially intelligent, then you have an
issue. But he said that the mobs were intelligent, which is much less
rigorous, much broader, and much overused and over-generalized.
Given that, its obvious that you are the one who is wrong, because you failed
to really know what you were talking about. You owe him an apology.
John
>
--
John Brothers | These statements do not represent the opinions of BNR. In fact
(404)246-2830 | if they did, the Spanish Inquisition would come and take me aw-
John Brothers
>>
>>Okay, you fucking moron. Maybe YOU should learn something about the state
>>of the art in AI, neural net, and parrallel processing machines. Modern
>>computer programming is not even CLOSE to reproducing intelligence in
>>a computerized system, not even to the level of C. elegans, in fact!
Spare us your pretensions.
The word "intelligent" is extremely common in today's microchip-driven
product development lingo. It is rather overused, but a fair description
would be: anything that is more adaptive and robust than the original
You're the one who made the mistake here, by assuming that intelligent had
only one meaning. If he had said "artificially intelligent" then perhaps
you would have had an issue, although the enthusiasm of your attack makes
me believe that you're the one with a touch of penis envy.
In any case, you were wrong, and you owe the person you insulted an apology.
Kevin M. Hebert
>Damion Schubert put forth into the Codex of Shub-Internet:
>> In article <2jmrmf$9...@pith.uoregon.edu>,
>> Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>> >Why does EVERY dime-store mud programmer claim to be able to create
>> >'intelligent' mobs? Trust me, if you could, you'd be rich and famous.
>> >Hell, I doubt any mud out there can even outdo ultima :)
>> Have you tried LegendMUD?
>> I thought so. Perhaps you should log on and try it before you flame. I
>> personally applaud attempts to make muds more than what your average diku
>> is: a collection of mobs that sit there and wait blithely to be killed.
>Okay, you fucking moron. Maybe YOU should learn something about the state
This is how Russ likes to deal with conflict. He dealt with it on
the same way in his Mud.
He couldn't just refute Damion's statement, he had to lash out at him.
And, he has never tried LegendMUD (neither have I, but I don't
start having a fit over what basically is irrelevant).
Russ is a smart guy, but I wonder if he has what it takes to live in
the real world.
This is no flame, just a careful observation of what I've seen from
Mr. Taylor in the past. He did great stuff on ROM, but he also did
a lot of bad stuff, too.
-- Kevin Hebert
--
Peckham
>> In article <2jmrmf$9...@pith.uoregon.edu>,
>> Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >*sigh*
>> >
>computer programming is not even CLOSE to reproducing intelligence in
>a computerized system, not even to the level of C. elegans, in fact!
>
>The simple fact is AI is so far beyond current computing technology that we
>may not see anything beyond the levels of inverterbate life for decades longer!
>If someone could EVER program an intelligent system (even learning systems
>take more processing power than most people have to throw at a mud, aside
>from the relatively trivial genetic algorithims -- I'm talking extrapolating
>systems vs. adapting systems), they would be quite famous in the computer
>world!
>
>Computer programmer and biology researcher
>(lest you doubt my credentials)
I think any of us that code realize this... I think you should
be wacking on these 'I don't know any C, I just want to run a MUD'
type posts more.
Just for the hell of it... I did download rom2... to see if there was
anything slick I could use, it turned out I couldn't use anything
in my application (a majorly feature stripped merc 'genocide-style'
pk mud), but his code was not bad...
I don't know if he lost his site, or if he just got sick of non-coders
whining about stuff (and I never actually logged onto ROM, just read
the code...), but if you don't code, you shouldn't be raggin on his code...
I probably won't respond to anyone who flames this, as you probably
won't have arguments worth the time... I will respond to all
email flames, as this site eats mail so I don't recieve any of it ;)
Rip
Peckham
>
>PLAYERS: If the mobs on your mud stand in one place and wait for you to kill
>them, over and over again, you're missing out on what a mud can be. You're
>
Let me rephrase that into a more accurate statement:
PLAYERS: If you actually get ANY challenge out of ANY mob on ANY mud, you
are truly pathetic, go play a good PK mud. (More into to follow on
T-MODE in the future... after I gets all the bugs out of it...
believe me, your adversaries here kill kick your ass...)
Kirk Andrew Munro
:Intelligent mobs sounds really good. This would be a totally new aspect in mudding.
:But actually i couldn't believe it's possible yet, so of to a telnet session and
:try it out.
:I couldn't connect to LegendMUD so no chance to proof any intelligence there :(.
:So off to "the ORIGINAL intelligent mob diku" CarnageMUD.
:This time i got a connection, I played around a bit, not very long i admit, but
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You don't have to admit that. It's rather obvious. I've tried many muds, with
Carnage being one if them, and CarnageMUD DOES have intelligent mobs. If you
took the time to play a bit more, explore a little, you may think of or see
some things that you might want to ask certain mobs about. No, a mob will not
sit down and talk to you like a player would, but having it answer questions
and not simply sit there with a target on its forehead waiting to be killed,
in my opinion, would classify a mob as being intelligent. I'm not one to say
that soandso mud is better than all of em, I just find ones I like and play
em, but to give an opinion of a mud relevant to what kind of different
features it has after playing around a bit, but not long enough to see what
capabilities it has doesn't make it a valid opinion at all. Heck, if I posted
about every mud that I only played for a very short time and found didn't have
what I was looking for, there would be many, many posts on here from me. I've
tried lots.
: I think it's better to tell people the truth.
Just because I didn't like em in the first little while does not make what
someone else told me about that mud wrong. If I can't take the time to see what
I am looking for, how can I judge them and say that they didn't tell me the
truth?
Nystul
Herbert Kremser
|You don't have to admit that. It's rather obvious. I've tried many muds, with
|Carnage being one if them, and CarnageMUD DOES have intelligent mobs. If you
|took the time to play a bit more, explore a little, you may think of or see
|some things that you might want to ask certain mobs about. No, a mob will not
|sit down and talk to you like a player would, but having it answer questions
|and not simply sit there with a target on its forehead waiting to be killed,
|in my opinion, would classify a mob as being intelligent. I'm not one to say
Answering questions could be intelligent, depends on the answer. When you
constantly get "I don't know anything about that." until you ask the right
question, this is not intelligent. What the mud does is waiting for the
right trigger (depends on the parser, how exact you have to match the
trigger value), and react with a special action to this. Intelligence is
something completely different.
|that soandso mud is better than all of em, I just find ones I like and play
|em, but to give an opinion of a mud relevant to what kind of different
|features it has after playing around a bit, but not long enough to see what
|capabilities it has doesn't make it a valid opinion at all. Heck, if I posted
|about every mud that I only played for a very short time and found didn't have
|what I was looking for, there would be many, many posts on here from me. I've
|tried lots.
I didn't gave any judgement how good or not good CarnageMUD is, for this
i stayed there too short. Question was, someone from there claimed to
have "intelligent" mobs, and i already know enough from muds to know
there isn't any such beast in any mud around. But i wanted first
to check before flaming. But you are welcome to tell me which mob there
you call intelligent, then i can try again and make some simple tests
of intelligence with it, and would have again a proof of non-intelligent
mobs.
On the other hand, there actually exist people who DID call ELIZA
intelligent, so why do i upset about this.
|: I think it's better to tell people the truth.
|Just because I didn't like em in the first little while does not make what
|someone else told me about that mud wrong. If I can't take the time to see what
|I am looking for, how can I judge them and say that they didn't tell me the
|truth?
Again, "intelligent" mobs are not state of the art. You can ask anybody which
is concerned with AI, that it's not possible to simulate intelligent mobs
with our possibilities, especially when thinking of the rather simple code
which is behind muds.
So everybody who does tell you there are intelligent mobs on my mud, is
not telling you the truth.
|Nystul
Naved Surve
Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>Naved A. Surve put forth into the Codex of Shub-Internet:
>> In article <2jsg6s$h...@pith.uoregon.edu>, (Russ Taylor) writes:
>> >BTW I've made no claims that aren't based on muds I've tried, unlike
>> >you I prefer to form my opinions from experience rather than conjecture.
>
>> Hmm... Didn't this whole flamewar, oops thread start when you flamed a
>> mud called LegendMUD and later admitted to never having played or even
>> logged onto that mud even once? Oh, sorry, that was the other thread.
>
>I don't have to log onto a mud to know it doesn't have functioning AI :)
>I keep up with computer journals for that one.
Strictly speaking, this statement contradicts the one you made in
article <2jsjpk$j...@pith.uoregon.edu> (see reference above). You are
implying that you know LegendMUD sucks, even without trying. How can
you say this and at the same time claim to have "made no claims that
aren't based on muds I've tried."
>And actually, yeah, I did telnet to it from my work machine (while it was
>up), the mobiles aren't intelligent (surprise!)
You know, this is the first time you admit to telnetting to LegendMUD
since this thread has started. Why coudn't you have started out by
saying something like this (without the sarchasm). In fact, in
article <2jn4jc$l...@huey.cc.utexas.edu>, Damion Schubert asks you,
"Have you tried LegendMUD?" Your response, a classic one at that,
was, "Okay, you fucking moron." (See article <2jn7of$f...@pith.uoregon.edu>)
Had you instead replied with something like, "Yeah, I tried it out,
and it didn't really impress me." I'm sure the 'net would not have
reacted so negatively.
>So take your post and shove it, because I've been there and they ain't
>smart.
I will have to take your word on that one because I have never played
on Legend, nor am I particularly interested in getting involved in
playing that mud (or any other for that matter) at the present.
-Naved
(fear my quoting in this article)
Peter Finin
>> >'intelligent' mobs? Trust me, if you could, you'd be rich and famous.
>> >Hell, I doubt any mud out there can even outdo ultima :)
>Okay, you fucking moron. Maybe YOU should learn something about the state
>of the art in AI, neural net, and parrallel processing machines. Modern
>computer programming is not even CLOSE to reproducing intelligence in
>a computerized system, not even to the level of C. elegans, in fact!
>If someone could EVER program an intelligent system (even learning systems
>take more processing power than most people have to throw at a mud, aside
>from the relatively trivial genetic algorithims -- I'm talking extrapolating
>systems vs. adapting systems), they would be quite famous in the computer
>world!
>intelligent. An intelligent mobile would adapt to it's situation without
^^^^^ ^^ ^^ ^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^
>further programming, be capable of making predictive actions based on
^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^
>uncertain data, and above all be able to exceed the limitations of the
^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>instructions programmed into it. These are just the simplest criteria I
>Russ Taylor,
It strikes me, that if the mobs really where "intelligent" by your
definition, you migh start having some problems. Would they be
concious? Would it be ok to kill them?
Maybe they would decide they
didn't like being simple mobs, and petition for more computing power,
or start threatening to crash systems if they aren't offered
protection for power-crazed mudders.
Having "intelligent" things around isn't very safe.
I think it is much safer to keep mobs fairly stupid,
although they could stand some improving.
Mark A Filetti
> to claim they wrote AI. Bah. I'll introduce them to some C. elegans modelling
> programs over in Neuroscience if they want to see the limitations of
> neural modelling these days)
>
> Russ Taylor,
> Computer programmer and biology researcher
> (lest you doubt my credentials)
>
Not only do i doubt your credentials but i also doubt you can
really read ! I didn't read anywhere anyone claiming that any
mudcoder (or wannabe) on Carnage or anywhere else wrote AI !
You probably needed to look up in the dictionary how to spell AI.
If you were a coder and/or mudder you would know that 'intelligent mobs'
mean that the mobs don't just sit around all day and wait to get killed
all over again. Some mobs are of more help when you talk to them
and try to trigger an action (and kill them after that :) ).
Now get of your daddie's account before he spanks you.
> --
>
> The opinions put forth in this article are not necessarily the opinions of
> the poster. They might just be here to piss you off.
--
The opinions put forth in this article ARE the opinions of the poster.
No dictionary available so lotsof errors possible :)
Caramon of Carnage (and Legend and....)
Mark A Filetti
> We have three eras of time with 1500 rooms open to the public, and more
> entering the game constantly. Our code is stable -- no constant crashes
> or lags. And we're DIFFERENT: we promise to be a mud unlike any other you've
> played. Come learn our herb-based magic system, with over 100 possible
> affects and associated spells!
>
WOW ! That is risky...Haven't seen a lagfree mud yet...nor a crashfree one.
You really have to be careful with these claims. Players will remember
your words when it lags or crashes. You should have said 'site-lag'...
Who protects you from worldwide netlag ???
> We research the historical periods for our areas in both fact-based and
> fanciful books. Our mobs are INTELLIGENT, with a wide range of reactions
> to what you say and do. Play blackjack with notorious criminal Big Jim
> Southland on the seamy side of London in the mid 19th century.
Uhh..I hope that blackjack thing is not your primary proof for
intelligent mobs...The Go player is standard in any LPmud since ages.
BTW this is supposed to be a nice post :)
It's not a flame or something like that :)
Caramon
David Gay
In article <2k55u0$6...@genesis.ait.psu.edu> M...@ECL.PSU.EDU (Mark A Filetti) writes:
In <2jn7of$f...@pith.uoregon.edu> rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu
> (I find it hard to believe there are people at Carnage ignorant enough
> to claim they wrote AI. Bah. I'll introduce them to some C. elegans modelling
> programs over in Neuroscience if they want to see the limitations of
> neural modelling these days)
>
> Russ Taylor,
> Computer programmer and biology researcher
> (lest you doubt my credentials)
>
Not only do i doubt your credentials but i also doubt you can
really read ! I didn't read anywhere anyone claiming that any
mudcoder (or wannabe) on Carnage or anywhere else wrote AI !
You probably needed to look up in the dictionary how to spell AI.
If you were a coder and/or mudder you would know that 'intelligent mobs'
mean that the mobs don't just sit around all day and wait to get killed
all over again.
Conversely, were I an intelligent human being I would think that
'intelligent mobile' meant that the mobile behaved intelligently.
David Gay - Now I couldn't just let this flamewar die, could I ?
dg...@di.epfl.ch
Russ Taylor
> In <2jn7of$f...@pith.uoregon.edu> rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu
> > (I find it hard to believe there are people at Carnage ignorant enough
> > to claim they wrote AI. Bah. I'll introduce them to some C. elegans modelling
> > programs over in Neuroscience if they want to see the limitations of
> > neural modelling these days)
> >
> > Russ Taylor,
> > Computer programmer and biology researcher
> > (lest you doubt my credentials)
> >
> Not only do i doubt your credentials but i also doubt you can
> really read ! I didn't read anywhere anyone claiming that any
> mudcoder (or wannabe) on Carnage or anywhere else wrote AI !
> You probably needed to look up in the dictionary how to spell AI.
> If you were a coder and/or mudder you would know that 'intelligent mobs'
> mean that the mobs don't just sit around all day and wait to get killed
> all over again. Some mobs are of more help when you talk to them
> and try to trigger an action (and kill them after that :) ).
> Now get of your daddie's account before he spanks you.
Computer intelligence is AI, that simple. Intelligent mobs are a hype claim
along the lines of 'better than the other leading brand' on television
commercials. Triggering actions? *yawn* that's not exactly difficult, you
know. For 'intelligent' mobiles I want to see some tactics (not bloody
liking on a mud).
Yes, I'm a mudder. And a coder. I wrote a mud that gets around 100 player
maximum attendance, and has been used (since I released it last week) for
at least 4 other sites. So, what have you done in mud coding lately,
little boy?
> Caramon of Carnage (and Legend and....)
Oh boy! Can't even get your own names?
(always thought book names were kinda lame)
--
Cerebus wonders what he is doing looking at foppish cloth when he has
gold for ale.
jsc...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
Alternately, were you an intelligent human being, you would be able understand
the concept of 'context'. As in 'taken out of context'. You know, what
Russ did in starting this flame-war.
"This putting some stupid remark before my name thing is getting old" Blackstaff
--
"The seeker after truth must, once in the course of his life, doubt everything,
as far as is possible. What is doubtful should even be considered as false.
This doubt should not, meanwhile, be applied to ordinary life."
-- 1-3rd Principles of Human Knowledge (R. Descartes)
Ogawa / Taro Stephen (ISE)
>LegendMUD is a history-based mud--instead of wandering in fantasy-land
>you get to explore the history of the Earth--not as it was, but as it was
The only minor problem with this is that the monsters are in general
animals and humans. This leads to several problems - Not least of which is
that 2 1st level characters got killed by a rat, 1 by a cat, and 1 by a
squirrel that I have seen (None of them mine BTW). There is something sad
about a character who has no chance of killing a mangy, skeletal dog...
>entering the game constantly. Our code is stable -- no constant crashes
>or lags.
Heh Heh - are we playing the same game here - even when u stopped
compiling, it was not totally lag free.
on the Upside there were no crashes.
>And we're DIFFERENT: we promise to be a mud unlike any other you've
>played. Come learn our herb-based magic system, with over 100 possible
>affects and associated spells!
true - tons of brownie points for making a Merc MUD WITHOUT the cage room :)
>We research the historical periods for our areas in both fact-based and
>fanciful books. Our mobs are INTELLIGENT, with a wide range of reactions
They are??
Certain mobs Flee when low in HP
Certain mobs follow pre-scripted little dramas - the rough equivalent of
the mayor on stock Mercs
Certain mobs have a VERY limited vocabulary - the sort of vocabulary that
differentiated really simple adventure games from Infocom i-f.
Certain mobs have simple interactive routines with the player.
Mobs have a mob memory - how good this is I haven't tested (IE: if a
monster remembers you AFTER another character has attacked it and fled)
this doesn't even come close to ELIZA or Parry.
>to what you say and do.
>Play blackjack with notorious criminal Big Jim
>Southland on the seamy side of London in the mid 19th century. Try to
Yes....Well.... I won and he took my winnings. That's Intelligent.
>Come see what MUDs should have been all along! A challenge for the mind
>and the sword arm, a feast for the imagination, and of course, plain fun.
* Another major problem is that the world is rather Fragmented:
Players start off in one of 5 cities, which are spread over 3 eras -
each of which is rather difficult to get to. This is less of a problem,
of course, when one has Players.
MUME, for instance has 4 starter towns - HOWEVER each of them are
reachable from each other, though distant.
Similarly with Armaggeddon - the Cities are widely separated, but
reachable (But take a friend or 4.. ;)
* The Interface is NOWHERE near as enjoyable to use as ROM's - annoying
little things like 'k' being kiss and not kill, lack of autocommands
beside autoexit etc.
* On the subject of Realism, or Subjective realism - a chinese junk costs
47 gold in bengal. As well, Bengal can be reached from London in about two
ticks. As well, ships can be carried. I realise that to make the journey
any longer would be a prime inducer of boredom though :)
Verdict: Definitely worth a look, but needs much work.
** Flame Away ** :)
Ohara, passwordless Grandmaster thief of the land of OZ
("Zump, Zump, Whereforeart thou Zump")
--
___ __ __ ___ ____ ___
Taro Ogawa: u93...@student.canberra.edu.au / \| | |/ \| \ / \
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= | =+= | =+= | =+= | =+= | =+= | =+
"Reality is the sign of a idmn." \___/|__|__|__|__|__|\_\__|__|
Christophe W Proctor
So in conclusion. Calling ROM a stripped DIKU or MERC is
completely unjustified. I am happy someone finally looked at the code
before opening their mouths for a change though.
I'm not going to say ROM is the best or the worst. The code
however is cleanly written, well documented, and well thought out. The
only complaint anyone can possibly have with Alander's code is that it
isn't completed. That's life. No code is ever really completed. There
are alot of options left wide open by Alander's coding style, and I
personally think it takes a fool and not a coder to look at it and go "Gee
it doesn't have any neato, whammy, cool-spiffed up features that I want to
steal." I'm waiting for someone to finally look closely and go ,"Hey that
gives me an idea. Thanks Alander."
PS: Thanks Alander. I know you don't know me, but I am very
grateful for the work you put into your code. I imagine many people are,
but it is human nature to try and tear down what you are incapable of
yourself.
Most sincerely,
Christopher W Proctor
Flames, misquotes, and people who are utterly clueless will get no reponse
from me.
Intelligent follow-ups will be taken seriously, and maturely.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Imitation is sincerest form of flattery,
How many people will put up identical copies of your mud
when you finally release the code?
Think about it 8)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher R. Boggs
Russ.......Shut the fuck up. =]
We know what to expect from you now and it is getting stale.
-Chris
--
[ Christopher R. Boggs - Senior | gt9...@prism.gatech.edu ]
[ Georgia Institute of Technology | baph...@hobbes.linfield.edu ]
[1988 Suzuki GSX600F Katana DoD# 2100 - "Atlanta Braves in 1994!" ]
[ "If God had meant for us to be naked, we'd have been born that way" ]
Russ Taylor
> Russ.......Shut the fuck up. =]
> We know what to expect from you now and it is getting stale.
Is that supposed to be a flame?
*boggle*
Lay off the beers, Chris, they're destroying your ability to post.
Edward Ouellette
Russ Taylor <rta...@cie-2.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>Christopher R. Boggs put forth into the Codex of Shub-Internet:
>
>> Russ.......Shut the fuck up. =]
>
>> We know what to expect from you now and it is getting stale.
>
>Is that supposed to be a flame?
>
>*boggle*
>
>Lay off the beers, Chris, they're destroying your ability to post.
Ah, come on, Russ... aren't all flames usually more biting when they
have a smiley in them?
Ed O.
Christopher R. Boggs
>>Is that supposed to be a flame?
>>
>>*boggle*
>>
>>Lay off the beers, Chris, they're destroying your ability to post.
No no no.....Beer is _nasty_. I don't think I could choke down enough to
get drunk. I'll stick to my Rum and Coke or some other mixed drink. =]
>Ah, come on, Russ... aren't all flames usually more biting when they
>have a smiley in them?
Well....My flame was rather weak. But I also expected more from Russ in
response. Weak reply for a weak flame eh.....
ObSmiley: =]