Future MUDs (not the Future of mudding)
Dredd
there such a lack of Sci-Fi muds? is it just personal preference, lack of
originality, or some coding problems that I have yet to see or run across?
--
"Nobody is innocent; there are merely varying degrees of guilt"
--Dredd
M. Nielsen
Dredd wrote:
My bet is on originality. Im sure that once there is a futuristic source
available, more sci-fi related muds will appear, just look at the SMAUG based
SW source, which spawned a few other muds, most sadly unoriginal towards the
original. As for coding problems, I have worked on a sci-fi mud for close to
20 months and i dont think that it offers any trouble that cannot be solved
with coding skills and creativity.
All in all, the reason for the domination of fantasy muds are that so few mud
creators has the time and stamina to design or re-design an entire source, its
much easier to put a stock mud up and promise that in a few weeks, its going
to be the best <add theme> mud in the world.
I know of 3 or 4 muds that will open within the next year and a half that
focuses on a total futuristic design, so its just a question of time before
the sources are available and we can have a new generation of stock muds aimed
towards other themes.
Dex.
Miroslav Silovic
> Ok, I may have posted this before, but I have a simple question: why is
> there such a lack of Sci-Fi muds? is it just personal preference, lack of
> originality, or some coding problems that I have yet to see or run across?
If you want coded combat, then futuristic MUD takes MUCH more than a
simple kill monster / you hit / you miss / you hit / it's dead
routine. It just doesn't scale well to spaceships. And once you start
to simulate crashing life support, beam weapons, and interplanetary
travel, you end up with a simulation game that uses fair bit of real
physics in its code - not to mention the CPU cost of tracking of
dozens of moving objects (physically moving, not just room-ro-room).
Try btech.ecst.csuchico.edu 3030 (BattleTech) - that's the one example
I could drop on a short notice.
--
I refuse to use .sig
H. McDaniel
>Ok, I may have posted this before, but I have a simple question: why is
>there such a lack of Sci-Fi muds? is it just personal preference, lack of
>originality, or some coding problems that I have yet to see or run across?
I think everyone who wants to make a sci-fi is working on it or plans
to. It takes a lot more work to build a sci-fi so the development
phase tends to be longer than with other games and that probably
reduces the chances of a paricular sci-fi project making it to the public
and playable stage.
-McDaniel
K.L.Lo-94
: Ok, I may have posted this before, but I have a simple question: why is
: there such a lack of Sci-Fi muds? is it just personal preference, lack of
: originality, or some coding problems that I have yet to see or run across?
Assuming you mean a combat mud where the idea is to plug a large proportion
of your valuable time repetitively killing things and generally being zonked.
There are a number of sci-fi mushes and mux and things.
Maybe it is the lack of dominant theme in a sci-fi setting. After all, it
is speculative and not based on myths. For fantasy, the general theme is
influenced by Lord of the Rings, D&D and folklore. For sci-fi, there's
the following to choose from:
a) Star Trek - Can't really make a combat mud out of it. Not on a personal
level anyway (exception, see below). Besides, there is far too much
Star Trek stuff.
b) Star Wars - Been done... Lots of times.
c) Babylon 5 - Political intrigue on a combat mud. Er.
d) Dune - Done.
e) Battletech/Heavy Gear - Been done but they seem to be beyond the average
stock mud admin. More wouldn't hurt, given their popularity.
f) Starship Troopers - Come on guys, this one is *dying* to be made into a
mud. Nukes, vast numbers of dying arachnids, powered armour, saving the
Earth. What more do you want?
The other problem with basing a mud on any of the above themes is that you
are basing a mud on that theme and it puts off others starting their own
mud with the same theme. With fantasy having such a generic blurred theme,
you can start another identical to the one next door but no one will accuse
you of copying.
An astute mud designer would examine some of the more well known themes
carefully and pick out aspects on which to base the mud on. Computer games
do this already. Klingon Honour Guard rings a bell? The limitation is
that you are restricted by whatever era and place you chose. That's where
being imaginative helps. Unfortunately, some smartass is bound to come
along and annoy you with things like: "According to the technical manual,
page 2315672, paragraph 4, line 12, a multi-phased modulated giga-retro
rust-protected quantum hyper diskdrive has a throughput of 1.5 Gb/ns, not
1.4 Gb/ns."
The alternative is inventing your own theme which no one can relate to so
no one will play. A big part of sci-fi seems to be visual (as well as
boys' toys). Novels are the exception coz they entertain ideas and concepts
you cannot explore in other settings (good sci-fi novels anyway). I still
have difficulty visualising a Motie.
I prefer the latter then back it up with lots of art on the webpage and,
cross my fingers, a mud client that can display pictures.
Oh, and don't forget ranged combat. Ever seen that done well in a room-based
mud? Me neither.
It seems certain themes are really suited to a certain type of game. Like
space strategy games go down a storm. Rpgs tend towards fantasy and stuff.
Stupidly, the current crop of "original" computer games are games that take
a genre and sets it in a theme that hasn't been done before. Like that one
which is basically C&C in space.
I digress.
On the other hand, where are the muds based on the rest of the world's history
and myths? Where are the pharaohs and caesars? What about the Incas, Inuits,
Hans, Ottomans? I don't see many shogans, Napoleans and tsars. Nor
godfathers, palas and ghurids.
Bloody hell, what I am I doing? I'm assuming your average mud designer
actually thinks about his mud before coding it. Doh!
--
| Ling (bugger me, this post is long)
_@_@_ Teardrops in my eyes, next time I'll be true.
rric...@lanminds.com
wrote:
>Maybe it is the lack of dominant theme in a sci-fi setting. After all, it
>is speculative and not based on myths. For fantasy, the general theme is
>influenced by Lord of the Rings, D&D and folklore.
>
And the trouble with things like copyrights and licenses. No one
holds a copyright on "Celtic Mythology".
>On the other hand, where are the muds based on the rest of the world's history
>and myths? Where are the pharaohs and caesars? What about the Incas, Inuits,
>Hans, Ottomans? I don't see many shogans, Napoleans and tsars. Nor
>godfathers, palas and ghurids.
>
People run what they are familiar with. For example, if I were going
to set an RPG in a modern setting, I would pick a city that _I_ knew
for the main area. (Doesn't matter if the players don't know the city
well, but you need to in order to be able to make it realistic.)
Glitches that don't match reality will be much more noticable in a
game with a modern setting or futuristic one than in one where
everyone agrees that it is all made up. Now, not having a degree in
physics or astronautics, nor having been to Japan or Egypt, I would
feel a lot less secure about making a world that involved any of that.
Kira Skydancer
Remove "not" when replying by email
K.L.Lo-94
: On 27 Jun 1999 18:24:52 GMT, K.L....@student.lboro.ac.uk (K.L.Lo-94)
: wrote:
: >Maybe it is the lack of dominant theme in a sci-fi setting. After all, it
: >is speculative and not based on myths. For fantasy, the general theme is
: >influenced by Lord of the Rings, D&D and folklore.
: >
: And the trouble with things like copyrights and licenses. No one
: holds a copyright on "Celtic Mythology".
I don't really think copyrights and licences, as a rule, stop any hobby mud
admin. I know of people who are writing their own mud lifting whole systems
without so much as rewording it. Then there are the existing muds that are
based on themes such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Wheel of Time,
Battletech and Transformers. Aren't they flaunting the rules?
: People run what they are familiar with. For example, if I were going
: to set an RPG in a modern setting, I would pick a city that _I_ knew
: for the main area. (Doesn't matter if the players don't know the city
: well, but you need to in order to be able to make it realistic.)
: Glitches that don't match reality will be much more noticable in a
: game with a modern setting or futuristic one than in one where
: everyone agrees that it is all made up. Now, not having a degree in
: physics or astronautics, nor having been to Japan or Egypt, I would
: feel a lot less secure about making a world that involved any of that.
I would argue that having a degree in physics or astronautics would actually
hamper your creativity. I have a very strong science background which
discourages me from inventing things without thinking it through. A game
design I've been working on reads more like Megatraveller than Star Wars.
I find it hard to give a sci-fi theme a space opera setting whereas I can
happily go with the flow of magic with no logic to it.
Historical settings, tho, are a competely different category of fish.
So long as it is fun.
--
| Ling
_@_@_ You've got perfect motion.
Nathan Fenenga Yospe
: rric...@lanminds.com wrote:
: : On 27 Jun 1999 18:24:52 GMT, K.L....@student.lboro.ac.uk (K.L.Lo-94)
: : wrote:
: : >Maybe it is the lack of dominant theme in a sci-fi setting. After all, it
: : >is speculative and not based on myths. For fantasy, the general theme is
: : >influenced by Lord of the Rings, D&D and folklore.
: : >
: : And the trouble with things like copyrights and licenses. No one
: : holds a copyright on "Celtic Mythology".
: I don't really think copyrights and licences, as a rule, stop any hobby mud
: admin. I know of people who are writing their own mud lifting whole systems
: without so much as rewording it. Then there are the existing muds that are
: based on themes such as Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Wheel of Time,
: Battletech and Transformers. Aren't they flaunting the rules?
The theme of both the old text based Singularity and the intended sample
game for Physmud, if I ever get around to finishing it (c'mon, guys, I'm
working on serious big-time professional stuff now... medical R&D, after
a career in orbital tracking... where do you *think* my time goes?) used
a blend of hard physics rules (I *do* have a degree in physics) and this
starwarsesque space opera society. I used a particular wormhole thing to
get around the relativistic limitations, though I made them timewise not
too stable...
In any case, the world of Singularity is actually well defined, and even
documented online on a web page that might still be up somewhere, and it
featured a host of playable nonhumanoid races, plus humans, each with an
elaborate social background and the conditioning of starting the game in
the ruins of your homeworld, fighting your way free of the occupying bug
forces (well, I *had* to... only actually bugs for humans; others got an
equivalent horror by their society's standards...) and getting narrative
commentary from their "memories" that outlined the histories of the land
and its people, and what has happened to it... On the web page (and much
more prominantly right behind the text on the client for Physmud) are an
assortment of graphical representations of each race, done in my cartoon
style (well, I'm a cartoonist, and rather good, and any attempt to apply
another medium would come out abstractish...) with social background. In
order to maintain a perspective, all of the initially available races on
Singularity were close enough to human that sensory input was almost the
same (one species had one other sense) and similar limbs (one had wings,
another had fore-hinged hind legs and tended to "run" with fore and back
legs, though slower motion was bipedal... one had a tail, and initially,
had had four legs. That proved too hard to handle, becuase climbing made
an essential aspect of the game...)
Combat was closer range, mostly... players were troopers, and I used the
artifice of visual range and large rooms... weapons were energy and some
projectile, flamethrowers and plasma arcs, and were mostly governed both
by ammunition and by the power available in capacitors (for discharging)
and by the recharge rate of the baby-fusion source they charged from. In
essence, this was a violent aggression game. Oh, there was a lot of code
for politics and commerce and intrigue... wars are great for that... but
no one used it, of course.
: : People run what they are familiar with. For example, if I were going
: : to set an RPG in a modern setting, I would pick a city that _I_ knew
: : for the main area. (Doesn't matter if the players don't know the city
: : well, but you need to in order to be able to make it realistic.)
: : Glitches that don't match reality will be much more noticable in a
: : game with a modern setting or futuristic one than in one where
: : everyone agrees that it is all made up. Now, not having a degree in
: : physics or astronautics, nor having been to Japan or Egypt, I would
: : feel a lot less secure about making a world that involved any of that.
: I would argue that having a degree in physics or astronautics would actually
: hamper your creativity. I have a very strong science background which
: discourages me from inventing things without thinking it through. A game
: design I've been working on reads more like Megatraveller than Star Wars.
: I find it hard to give a sci-fi theme a space opera setting whereas I can
: happily go with the flow of magic with no logic to it.
: Historical settings, tho, are a competely different category of fish.
: So long as it is fun.
Nah, I'm out to create the perfect simulation AI and a novel quality NLP
output AI.
--
Nathan F. Yospe - Born in the year of the tiger, riding it forever after
B.S. Physics, U.H. Manoa; Programmer, Scientist... Textron Systems Corp.
I can only say, when one problem is gone, something worse is on the way.
yospe#hawaii.edu http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe Non commercial email only
Malcolm Valentine
<snipped>
>Maybe it is the lack of dominant theme in a sci-fi setting. After all, it
>is speculative and not based on myths. For fantasy, the general theme is
>influenced by Lord of the Rings, D&D and folklore. For sci-fi, there's
>the following to choose from:
>
>a) Star Trek - Can't really make a combat mud out of it. Not on a personal
> level anyway (exception, see below). Besides, there is far too much
> Star Trek stuff.
>b) Star Wars - Been done... Lots of times.
>c) Babylon 5 - Political intrigue on a combat mud. Er.
>d) Dune - Done.
>e) Battletech/Heavy Gear - Been done but they seem to be beyond the average
> stock mud admin. More wouldn't hurt, given their popularity.
>f) Starship Troopers - Come on guys, this one is *dying* to be made into a
> mud. Nukes, vast numbers of dying arachnids, powered armour, saving the
> Earth. What more do you want?
>
>The other problem with basing a mud on any of the above themes is that you
>are basing a mud on that theme and it puts off others starting their own
>mud with the same theme. With fantasy having such a generic blurred theme,
>you can start another identical to the one next door but no one will accuse
>you of copying.
>
>An astute mud designer would examine some of the more well known themes
>carefully and pick out aspects on which to base the mud on. Computer games
<snipped>
The line between science fiction and fantasy can become very blurred.
If my soldier carries a thin wooden-looking wand, can I call it a laser
pistol or a wand of lightning? Asking for a sci-fi mud does not really
suggest what the OP was actually after.
I think a distinction should be drawn between the physical theme and the
"feel" of a mud. The names of items and locations (and players) are part of
a muds physical theme, whether those items are light sabers or long swords.
I would say (as you have above) that the designer of an interesting mud
would pick out aspects of available themes and plant them within their
mud to create a unique "feel".
If I make a "vampire" mud, do I just have to worry about modelling vampires.
What about the beings they prey upon? Do they all react to the threat of
vampires in the same way? Will some of them turn and flee whilst others
gather their garlic and band together?
If my mud world includes forms of slavery, do the NPC slaves react differently
to characters who are also slaves? The fact that these slaves are in a fantasy
mud as opposed to a sci-fi mud, would make very little difference I feel.
In my fantasy mud, can I not model my dwarven race upon the Klingons.
A static mud can have whatever physical theme you like, but it will never
have any "feeling". An interactive mud world is limited only by the creators'
imagination (and CPU), and despite a limiting physical theme, it can offer
unlimited depth.
As for your sci-fi suggestions, why are they so limited? Many science fiction
books/series go to great lengths creating an entire world(universe) most of
which are unique and offer plenty to the imagination.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_
Instruction comes from another, ZZZzzzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
understanding from your self. |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Howard Gilbraith
> a) Star Trek - Can't really make a combat mud out of it. Not on a personal
> level anyway (exception, see below). Besides, there is far too much
> Star Trek stuff.
> b) Star Wars - Been done... Lots of times.
> c) Babylon 5 - Political intrigue on a combat mud. Er.
> d) Dune - Done.
> e) Battletech/Heavy Gear - Been done but they seem to be beyond the average
> stock mud admin. More wouldn't hurt, given their popularity.
> f) Starship Troopers - Come on guys, this one is *dying* to be made into a
> mud. Nukes, vast numbers of dying arachnids, powered armour, saving the
> Earth. What more do you want?
>
just wanted to say that if anyone does a Starship Troopers Mud, they damn well
better read the book. The movie was crap in comparison.
White Flame (aka David Holz)
>just wanted to say that if anyone does a Starship Troopers Mud, they damn
well
>better read the book. The movie was crap in comparison.
Having never read the book, I can honestly say that the movie was crap by
itself! :)
--
White Flame (aka David Holz)
http://fly.to/theflame
Skorpion
White Flame (aka David Holz) <white-fl...@geocities.KillTheParrot.com>
wrote in message news:7m0r0e$pp3$1...@barad-dur.nas.com...
> Howard Gilbraith wrote in message <3780C0DB...@earthlink.net>...
> >just wanted to say that if anyone does a Starship Troopers Mud, they damn
> well
> >better read the book. The movie was crap in comparison.
>
> Having never read the book, I can honestly say that the movie was crap by
> itself! :)
>
reason I don't think the effects would translate into a MUD too well!) And
anyway, I thought most of the cast did well considering the script.
Skorpion
K.L.Lo-94
: White Flame (aka David Holz) <white-fl...@geocities.KillTheParrot.com>
: Skorpion
Been away for a while so I have no idea what messages preceeded this one.
When I scribbled the above down, I was actually thinking about the board
game, although I've read the book and seen the movie (hint: to enjoy a
movie, never compare it with the book).
I suppose none of you guys can remember the boardgame. :)
Damn, at 23, I feel old.
--
| Ling
_@_@_
mwi...@my-deja.com
K.L....@student.lboro.ac.uk (K.L.Lo-94) wrote:
> Been away for a while so I have no idea what messages preceeded this
> one. When I scribbled the above down, I was actually thinking about
> the board game, although I've read the book and seen the movie (hint:
> to enjoy a movie, never compare it with the book).
The movie was crap on it's own merits. My wife and I went to see it,
not having heard the scuttlebutt about Ginny having sued to get Bob's
name taken off of the title. After seeing it, I can understand why.
The special effects were ok, but nothing groundbreaking. I've seen
better in episodes of Babylon 5 or Star Trek. The combat scenes were
something better suited to a slasher flick than a war story. Fields
full of men shot and dead or dying is one thing. Hundreds of guys being
torn into pieces in front of a camera is just disgusting.
> I suppose none of you guys can remember the boardgame. :)
I've still got copies of it. When I was a teenager, I asked the
relatives for anything by Heinlein as presents one holiday. I didn't
get the novel, but I did get two copies of the game.
> Damn, at 23, I feel old.
At 27, I feel older. ;)
--
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