Gay Programmers Wanted
Dan Schramm
ideas? Are you gay too? We are looking for programmers for paid and
otherwise
compensated positions to complete a sophisticated and highly entertaining
online
game for a gay audience. This is the most sophisticated and expensive adult
oriented game ever created and the game engine has many other applications
beyond our particular game. This game is designed to be fun and
entertaining
for large numbers of players. We are designing the game for at least 1,000
simultaneous players. PC, PS2 and Dreamcast versions are planned for the
future.
The game is written in C++. Support programs are written in Visual Basic.
The
platform will be NT or WIN2000. Work at home and inhouse positions
available.
For more information, visit our website at WWW.REALITYSTREET.COM
Or write:
Reality Street Corporation
1618 North Jackson Street
Milwaukee, WI 53202-2004
seija sauvola
of gay guys? >=)
Dan Schramm <dsch...@gn1.net> wrote in message
news:38bc...@news2.mixcom.com...
Nathan Fenenga Yospe
: are friends of the gay community welcome? more specifically, chick friends
: of gay guys? >=)
Not all FLAG members are female...
Sorry to say, I have neither the time nor the faith to work on this...
--
Nathan F. Yospe - Born in the year of the tiger, riding it forever after
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe nathan.yospe#isearch.com yospe#hawaii.edu
Don't mind me, I'm just insane... there's someone else here in my brain.
H. McDaniel
>
> Are you tired of programming the same old muds, tired of the same old tired
> ideas? Are you gay too? We are looking for programmers for paid and
Soon all the gay programmers in muddom will be beaming up to the mother ship
and off to work where the grass is greener. I wonder if I can collect
consulting fees from this group since I'm a guy who acts like a lesbian. But
how would I "prove" I'm gay? Maybe use a name like Vicky or something
suspicous like Bo'nelly... I suppose "McDaniel" is asexual enough being a last
name and all.
-McDaniel
Jon A. Lambert
"Will they [police] or other prisoners rape you in jail?"
It sounds like barrels of fun.
--
--* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email: jlsy...@nospam.ix.netcom.com *--
--* Mud Server Developer's Page <http://jlsysinc.home.netcom.com> *--
--* "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson *--
Nick Bryant
saying "we are looking for heterosexual programmers"?
(wanders away mumbling about double standards)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
George Reese
: Can you imagine how much of a fuss there would be if a MUD advertised
: saying "we are looking for heterosexual programmers"?
: (wanders away mumbling about double standards)
It would make sense if you were opening a mud dealing with
heterosexual issues. Generally, there is not much need for such a
thing.
Although, one wonders about the need for a mud targetted at gays
since, face it, aren't all muds these days just a bunch of teenage
guys pretending to be women and having mud sex with each other?
--
George Reese (bo...@imaginary.com) http://www.imaginary.com/~borg
On meurt toujours trop tôt -- ou trop tard. Et cependant la vie est
là, terminée; le trait est tiré, il faut faire la somme. Tu n'es rien
d'autre que ta vie. -Jean-Paul Sartre, Huis Clos
Marc Bowden
<nicolas...@mswtech.com> wrote:
> Can you imagine how much of a fuss there would be if a MUD advertised
> saying "we are looking for heterosexual programmers"?
>
> (wanders away mumbling about double standards)
>
Heck, Nick, you should see the whining when we advertize that "we are
looking for adult programmers."
======================================================================
Marc Bowden - Soulsinger D R E A M S H A D O W
Human Resources Director --------------------------
The Legacy of the Three
dreamer.telmaron.com 3333 or 206.246.120.2 3333 ry...@merit.edu
"We did not choose to become the guardians, but there is no one else."
======================================================================
Marc Bowden
<bo...@imaginary.com> wrote:
> Nick Bryant <nicolas...@mswtech.com> wrote:
> : Can you imagine how much of a fuss there would be if a MUD advertised
> : saying "we are looking for heterosexual programmers"?
>
> : (wanders away mumbling about double standards)
>
>
> It would make sense if you were opening a mud dealing with
> heterosexual issues. Generally, there is not much need for such a
> thing.
>
> Although, one wonders about the need for a mud targetted at gays
> since, face it, aren't all muds these days just a bunch of teenage
> guys pretending to be women and having mud sex with each other?
>
You know, I wish I could argue with this, but I can't.
Lee
> looking for adult programmers."
And I still don't understand this mentality.
I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
I do not really understand what the fuss is about if a person under 18 is
mature enough and has the ability to work on and develop a MUD?
Yes, I know there are some teens who have incredibly bad spelling skills,
cannot communicate, want to wreck the environment after gaining privileges,
etc. But that is not a convincing argument because there are many others who
would love to work in a friendly environment at which they have the ability
to test out their skills and creativity.
For example, there was a MUD that my friend and I wanted to work at. They
had advertised at one of the mudconnector boards about finding some coders.
We both decided to apply, but did not after finding out that they had not
wanted any coders under 18 because some kid named "Raistlin" -- pretty
common -- decided to trash a previous MUD they had built. They were very
haughty (apparently because his wife went to DeVry -- one of those "tech
institutes") and were planning some "special stuff" -- as of yet, I have not
heard of their MUD. But what if my friend, who is a decent/excellent ROM
coder did help them out? He was only 15, but who knows? Maybe his skill
level could have helped make their ideas come to life.
Comments?
Lee
Fated
necessarily come from fear that they would not have the skills to complete
the job, but that they might be lacking a level of maturity that cannot be
gained from anything other than life experiences.
I personally would not have a problem hiring someone under 18 if they were
articulate, creative, intelligent, honest and dedicated. Then again, those
criteria must be met by all I hire, regardless of age. Believe me, there is
a horse load of "grownup" types that you can't trust for anything.
Then there's the "issues" of what is appropriate for children (those under
18 are still kiddies according to most laws)....and our imm channel can get
pretty full of base (or is that debased?) humor....and I have a problem with
subjecting anyone under 43 to that sort of debauchery...and to be honest,
that is probably my biggest hold back when making the decision to hire
someone under the legal age of smack-talk. :)
"Lee" <mud...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8a1j15$khu$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
Jon A. Lambert
> Marc Bowden wrote:
>> Heck, Nick, you should see the whining when we advertize that "we are
>> looking for adult programmers."
>
[snip]
>I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
[snip]
>-- as of yet, I have not heard of their MUD.
>
>Comments?
Marc, are these the characteristic warning signs of "THE SAVIOR"?
Jon A. Lambert
>
>It would make sense if you were opening a mud dealing with
>heterosexual issues. Generally, there is not much need for such a
>thing.
I don't know about need. But I'm quite certain there is a huge market
for similar adult-oriented graphic sex muds.
>Although, one wonders about the need for a mud targetted at gays
>since, face it, aren't all muds these days just a bunch of teenage
>guys pretending to be women and having mud sex with each other?
Well, sure...but there are interesting NEW features in this mud.
How many muds have NPCs that will rape you, that you can seduce,
and as a bonus for getting to first base will send you nude pictures of
themselves to DL?
This earthshaking use of the latest in NLP and AI technology will lessen the
workload of those administrators who find themselves spending too much
time seducing and raping their players. Instead they can devote their time
to coding and spicing up old areas. In Smurfville, one could make Papa
Smurf a rapist and Smurfette a prostitute. And there's the potential for
new quests and avenues to gain experience points. I mean what budding
Casanova would shrink at the daunting challenge of getting into Marshall Diana
of Ofcol's platinum armor? And what mudder wouldn't be proud to earn nekkid
pictures of the Grande Mistress of the Tower of Sorcery. There needs to be
more danger lurking in New Thalos, like nomad merchants who operate as
pimps and sell player captives as sex slaves, and perhaps the Royal Guard
has a tendency to bugger their prettier prisoners.... The possibilities are
endless.
Oh these are exciting and wonderful times we live in. ;-)
Marc Bowden
<jlsy...@nospam.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
You were frightened by Liberace as a child, weren't you?
H. McDaniel
>
> Nick Bryant <nicolas...@mswtech.com> wrote:
> : Can you imagine how much of a fuss there would be if a MUD advertised
> : saying "we are looking for heterosexual programmers"?
>
> : (wanders away mumbling about double standards)
>
> heterosexual issues. Generally, there is not much need for such a
> thing.
>
> since, face it, aren't all muds these days just a bunch of teenage
> guys pretending to be women and having mud sex with each other?
You know I was going to make that point originally... but only
implied it with the thing about name changes. Not that playing a
character of a different sex than your rl one necessarily means the
player is gay mind you.
Funny thing is, as I recall, questions of whether one is gay or
not in a MUD never came up back in the old days. People just played
whatever character they wanted to and stayed in role or even stated
that they were really a woman playing a male or a guy playing a female.
It wasn't a big deal. Mind you, it may have been had they (or anybody
else) made unwanted sexual advances within the MUD on someone without
a sense of humor.
-McDaniel
Lars Duening
>> Heck, Nick, you should see the whining when we advertize that "we are
>> looking for adult programmers."
>
>And I still don't understand this mentality.
>I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
Which doesn't mean that your good at it. And a big part of 'being
good' is having hard-earned experience which takes years to acquire.
--
Lars Duening; la...@bearnip.com
http://www.bearnip.com/
H. McDaniel
>
> > Heck, Nick, you should see the whining when we advertize that "we are
> > looking for adult programmers."
>
> And I still don't understand this mentality.
> I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
> mature enough and has the ability to work on and develop a MUD?
I wouldn't want Doukie Houser operating on me ;)
For a lot of people having control over others is part of what they like
about running a MUD. Maybe they enjoy telling you, no. And maybe too many
immature punks have come along before you and mucked things up. I don't
at all think age alone should mean much though, since there are plenty
of adults that act like 11 year olds.... It could also be that all of the
people working on the games in question are adults and they wish to only
socialize with other adults, people mature in age and experience at MUDs.
Perhaps there should be a maturity test a la the startup to cheesy video
games intended for adults (Police Quest, comes to mind). So here's a
maturity test:
1. When you are upset with someone do you:
a.) Say what comes to mind immediately
a.) Consider the circumstance before saying anything
b.) Punch him or her to make sure they know it
2. Is Raquel Welch a babe?
a.) There is no such person
b.) Yes
c.) No
3. MTV's Real World is:
a.) Show about kids in need of adult supervision.
b.) Show about intelligent and funny people living together.
4. When attempting to do something new you:
a.) Just do it because life is short
b.) Ask people with more experience their opinion
5. Being a volunteer means:
a.) Getting free things
b.) You can do as little work as you like
c.) Participating in a cooperative effort
6. PMS probably means
a.) Pre Microsoft
b.) Be very nice to your girlfriend
c.) Public MUD Server
[...]
> For example, there was a MUD that my friend and I wanted to work at. They
> had advertised at one of the mudconnector boards about finding some coders.
> We both decided to apply, but did not after finding out that they had not
> wanted any coders under 18 because some kid named "Raistlin" -- pretty
> common -- decided to trash a previous MUD they had built. They were very
This is good training for the real world because you'll find companies
with insane hiring requirements, like demanding 10 years of experience in
some technology that has only been publicly known for 3 years. Or you'll
have all the qualifications and not get hired because the manager doesn't
like the way you part your hair. And if you're real "lucky" you'll have
some ug-lee Human Resources chick staring at your crotch during the whole
interview.
> haughty (apparently because his wife went to DeVry -- one of those "tech
> institutes") and were planning some "special stuff" -- as of yet, I have not
> heard of their MUD. But what if my friend, who is a decent/excellent ROM
> coder did help them out? He was only 15, but who knows? Maybe his skill
> level could have helped make their ideas come to life.
If I were running a MUD development project right now, I'd give you
a chance. My thing has always been to seek out people who are highly
motivated and give them a chance. Motivated people are often worth more
than those who know more but do little work.
So basically, find a MUD that you like the concept or theme of so much
you really, really wouldn't mind working there for a year or more and
let the admin know that. Stress how motivated you are to work. This should
help. But DO NOT forget that this is a two way street: you shouldn't just
work for any MUD but find one that offers you something you want too.
-McDaniel
Jonathan White
> > looking for adult programmers."
> coder did help them out? He was only 15, but who knows? Maybe his skill
> level could have helped make their ideas come to life.
>
> Comments?
In my experience, the sort of maturity you are describing is very rare in
those under the age of 18 - in fact, in my opinion its lacking in most under
20 year-olds. Sure, there are exceptions, and perhaps you and your friend
are such, but a lot of MUD admins (myself included) have had a bad
experience (or several bad experiences) working with young programmers and /
or builders. For that reason, they are very hesitant about giving coding
positions to youngsters, especially when that involves giving access to the
shell account.
As for our Mud, we don't trust the code to anyone - the only people with
access to the shell account are people known personally to the Imps - in
fact, in addition to the Imps, the only people with shell access are two
ex-Implementors, who have for various reasons "retired" but are still known
and trusted. We'll take builders of any age, providing they can meet our
fairly rigorous standards in area creation. We do operate a "probation"
scheme which gives makes ALL new builders create a test area first - a small
area which we can use to assess their skills. Once we're happy with that,
they'll get the full set of immortal commands - this has been reasonably
successful at weeding out builders who get bored before they do anything
positive!
Jon
Marc Bowden
<jlsy...@nospam.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Lee wrote in message <8a1j15$khu$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net>...
> > Marc Bowden wrote:
> >> Heck, Nick, you should see the whining when we advertize that "we are
> >> looking for adult programmers."
> >
>
> [snip]
> >I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
>
> [snip]
> >-- as of yet, I have not heard of their MUD.
> >
> >Comments?
>
>
> Marc, are these the characteristic warning signs of "THE SAVIOR"?
>
You know, Jon, I was going to let the kid wrist off and let his attention
span run down... =P
========================================================================
Marc Bowden - Soulsinger D R E A M S H A D O W
Human Resources Director --------------------------
The Legacy of the Three
dreamer.telmaron.com 3333 or 206.246.120.2 3333 ry...@merit.edu
"We did not choose to become the guardians, but there is no one else."
========================================================================
tel...@xenon.triode.net.au
> 1. When you are upset with someone do you:
> a.) Say what comes to mind immediately
> a.) Consider the circumstance before saying anything
> b.) Punch him or her to make sure they know it
>
> 2. Is Raquel Welch a babe?
> a.) There is no such person
> b.) Yes
> c.) No
> 3. MTV's Real World is:
> a.) Show about kids in need of adult supervision.
> b.) Show about intelligent and funny people living together.
d.) I think MTV plays music or something
> 4. When attempting to do something new you:
> a.) Just do it because life is short
> b.) Ask people with more experience their opinion
d.) Everything I do is new
>
> 5. Being a volunteer means:
> a.) Getting free things
> b.) You can do as little work as you like
> c.) Participating in a cooperative effort
d.) Not getting paid
> 6. PMS probably means
> a.) Pre Microsoft
> b.) Be very nice to your girlfriend
> c.) Public MUD Server
d.) Are the real questions coming soon?
> This is good training for the real world because you'll find companies
> with insane hiring requirements, like demanding 10 years of experience in
> some technology that has only been publicly known for 3 years.
This is their little way of saying they want to hire someone dishonest.
> So basically, find a MUD that you like the concept or theme of so much
> you really, really wouldn't mind working there for a year or more and
> let the admin know that. Stress how motivated you are to work. This should
> help. But DO NOT forget that this is a two way street: you shouldn't just
> work for any MUD but find one that offers you something you want too.
Naaa, just start your own.
- Tel
Jon A. Lambert
>
> You were frightened by Liberace as a child, weren't you?
>
No, but then Liberace didn't use rape to entertain and titillate his audience.
KaVir
SPAMMERS.wolfenet.com>, "H. McDaniel" <haji@DEATH-TO-
SPAMMERS.wolfenet.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Perhaps there should be a maturity test a la the startup to
>cheesy video games intended for adults (Police Quest, comes to
>mind). So here's a maturity test:
Nifty!
>1. When you are upset with someone do you:
> a.) Say what comes to mind immediately
> a.) Consider the circumstance before saying anything
> b.) Punch him or her to make sure they know it
a, a, b? :P How about:
c.) Eat his goldfish.
[snip]
>6. PMS probably means
> a.) Pre Microsoft
> b.) Be very nice to your girlfriend
> c.) Public MUD Server
d.) The head implementress is going to ban you again.
[snip]
>This is good training for the real world because you'll find
>companies with insane hiring requirements, like demanding 10
>years of experience in some technology that has only been
>publicly known for 3 years. Or you'll have all the
>qualifications and not get hired because the manager doesn't
>like the way you part your hair. And if you're real "lucky"
>you'll have some ug-lee Human Resources chick staring at your
>crotch during the whole interview.
That's right - most of the nasty things which muds get flamed
about go on in the real mud, such as trolling other muds for
players (aka "headhunting", in the real world), offering perks
in return for sexual favours, taking donations (bribes), etc,
etc. In many ways muds are good practice for the real world.
[snip]
>So basically, find a MUD that you like the concept or theme of
>so much you really, really wouldn't mind working there for a
>year or more and let the admin know that. Stress how motivated
>you are to work. This should help. But DO NOT forget that this
>is a two way street: you shouldn't just work for any MUD but
>find one that offers you something you want too.
Agreed. Furthermore, unless the mud is desperate, I wouldn't
recommend just asking to be recruited outright - most mud admin
are sick of people doing that. A better approach would be to
offer to help out with little things, eg "Hey, I noticed you
didn't have any helpfiles on X, Y or Z, so I've written some up
and sent them in". Or "I noticed on your to-do list you had the
'darkblessing' spell for Antipaladins - well, I coded it last
night, thought it might save you some time - here's the code,
it should work on your mud but if not I can always convert it
for you". Make yourself useful to them and the chances are
they'll recruit you.
KaVir.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Henry McDaniel
> > 6. PMS probably means
> > a.) Pre Microsoft
> > b.) Be very nice to your girlfriend
> > c.) Public MUD Server
> d.) Are the real questions coming soon?
>
Ha. These were better than those old Police Quest/ Lesiure Suit Larry ones. And
um, you'd be surprised how many young punks have never heard of Welch. Or
*anybody*
that was alive prior to the 1990s. My, I'm starting to sound like an old
geezer.
> > This is good training for the real world because you'll find companies
> > with insane hiring requirements, like demanding 10 years of experience in
> > some technology that has only been publicly known for 3 years.
>
> This is their little way of saying they want to hire someone dishonest.
Or: "Mr. McDaniel, I see that your last employer laid you off. Downsizing it
says.
And after you'd taken a pay cut too. So, you don't have any ill feelings
towards
your prior employer do you?"
Don't get me started on the whole honesty thing. Sigh. I'll say something that
makes me sound bitter.
-McDaniel
Marc Bowden
Artimus...@127.0.0.1 wrote:
> tel...@xenon.triode.net.au wrote:
>
> > > 6. PMS probably means
> > > a.) Pre Microsoft
> > > b.) Be very nice to your girlfriend
> > > c.) Public MUD Server
> > d.) Are the real questions coming soon?
> >
> Ha. These were better than those old Police Quest/ Lesiure Suit Larry
ones. And
> um, you'd be surprised how many young punks have never heard of Welch. Or
> *anybody*
> that was alive prior to the 1990s. My, I'm starting to sound like an old
> geezer.
>
Join us.....join us.....
Lee
Lambert and Bowden:
Sorry guys, didn't mean to come off like some arrogant little 13-year-old
who had nothing better to do than mouth off. Actually, to tell you the
truth, I don't even know who "THE SAVIOR" is -- he's probably before my time
or I haven't been around that much or I just missed him (I've been playing
MUDs for about 4 years and doing dev work for 3 years).
Btw, Mr. Lambert -- I'm not sure if you're related, but there's a famous guy
named "d'Lambert" or something who helped work on _the_ encyclopedia (i.e.
the one made during the Enlightenment w/ Diderot).
H. McDaniel:
> I wouldn't want Doukie Houser operating on me ;)
I used to watch that. I wonder what happened to that guy... it was actually
an okay show...
> For a lot of people having control over others is part of what they like
> about running a MUD. Maybe they enjoy telling you, no. And maybe too many
> immature punks have come along before you and mucked things up. I don't
> at all think age alone should mean much though, since there are plenty
> of adults that act like 11 year olds.... It could also be that all of the
> people working on the games in question are adults and they wish to only
> socialize with other adults, people mature in age and experience at MUDs.
I agree, but... your point on maturity...
why couldn't a child (like Dougie Houser or someone) have a high level of
maturity?
> Perhaps there should be a maturity test a la the startup to cheesy video
> games intended for adults (Police Quest, comes to mind). So here's a
> maturity test:
Hrm... didn't think PQ series was "mature" -- I played that all the time
when I was about ten years old.
> 1. When you are upset with someone do you:
> a.) Consider the circumstance before saying anything
Yes, sounds pretty amazing doesn't it? But I'm usually dealing with
authority figures (since I'm a kid) and this is always the best choice
(except when I talk to my parents ;-)
> 2. Is Raquel Welch a babe?
who?
> 3. MTV's Real World is:
I don't watch MTV.
> 4. When attempting to do something new you:
> a.) Just do it because life is short
> b.) Ask people with more experience their opinion
Both.
> 5. Being a volunteer means:
> a.) Getting free things
> b.) You can do as little work as you like
> c.) Participating in a cooperative effort
Depends on what I'm volunteering for, but truthfully, mainly a & c, and
sometimes b.
> 6. PMS probably means
> b.) Be very nice to your girlfriend
... or any other woman for that matter ...
> This is good training for the real world because you'll find companies
> with insane hiring requirements, like demanding 10 years of experience in
> some technology that has only been publicly known for 3 years. Or you'll
> have all the qualifications and not get hired because the manager doesn't
> like the way you part your hair. And if you're real "lucky" you'll have
> some ug-lee Human Resources chick staring at your crotch during the whole
Pun inteneded with the "lee" or just emphasis?
> If I were running a MUD development project right now, I'd give you
> a chance. My thing has always been to seek out people who are highly
> motivated and give them a chance. Motivated people are often worth more
> than those who know more but do little work.
Thanks!
Lee
Lee
Lars Duening <lars...@bearnip.com> wrote in message
news:38c541e6.664183705@news...
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 16:32:09 -0800, "Lee" <mud...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Which doesn't mean that your good at it. And a big part of 'being
> good' is having hard-earned experience which takes years to acquire.
Yeah, I'll agree. I've only been doing dev work for about 3 years and I
still suck at it (though not as much as when I started).
Lee
Jon A. Lambert
>Reponse to the previous three posts.
>
>Lambert and Bowden:
>Sorry guys, didn't mean to come off like some arrogant little 13-year-old
>who had nothing better to do than mouth off.
I don't believe you really want to know why someone has developed a
particular criteria in hiring builders. Rather... I surmise you wish for them
to defend it, and ultimately change it. I'd suggest that mud owners or
implementors need to have no special justification or rational for even
the most arbitrary criteria in selecting people they are going to work with.
There is no commonly agreed criteria, nor will there ever be. It's not unfair.
You might as well try to argue D. Schramm out of his criteria that his
programmers have certain sexual perversions. He has every right to
establish any sort of hiring criteria. As well as do I or you. If you feel strongly
enough about the age issue, you might do well to establish a mud where one
of your hiring criteria is that builders be 18 or less. Sort of a showcase of
young talent. Maybe you could call it ManutoMud or something. ;-)
> Actually, to tell you the
>truth, I don't even know who "THE SAVIOR" is -- he's probably before my time
>or I haven't been around that much or I just missed him (I've been playing
>MUDs for about 4 years and doing dev work for 3 years).
This is just a reference to Mr. Bowden's seminal draft thesis on anti-patterns
in mud administration. It's likely that future generations of mud administrators
might refer to him simply as GOO (or gang of one).
Marc Bowden
<mud...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Reponse to the previous three posts.
>
> Lambert and Bowden:
Anyone who was raised on country music like me, and remembers "Pinkert
and Bowden" is having the same flashbacks I am. Don't attempt to operate
heavy machinery. Lie quietly and the screaming will pass.
> Sorry guys, didn't mean to come off like some arrogant little 13-year-old
> who had nothing better to do than mouth off. Actually, to tell you the
> truth, I don't even know who "THE SAVIOR" is -- he's probably before my time
> or I haven't been around that much or I just missed him (I've been playing
> MUDs for about 4 years and doing dev work for 3 years).
It's a reference to a posting I did some time ago drawing out the
characteristics of some of the more common species of applicant. There's
no way to convey the subtext without sharing some of the mail I get...
From: Gary Kirsch <kir...@xxx.com>
To: Marc Bowden <ry...@merit.edu>
Subject: Need Help!
Date: 2/26/00 12:26 AM +0000
Hello to whoever it may concern,
I have been on your mud DreamShadow and I think you could use my help.
I have helped to make over 6 diffrent muds and they have all turned out
pretty good, If you think you could use my help or need info on my self or
anythin email me at [address that doesn't even resemble the 'from' line]
Thanks and I hope I can help;
That would be a 'Savior' type. In a few years you're going to start
interviewing for jobs, and will realize what an awe-inspiring idiot it
takes to believe that you can walk in an be hired (much less taken
seriously) if the first words out of your mouth are, "What a dump. Hi, I'm
here to save you."
> I agree, but... your point on maturity...
> why couldn't a child (like Dougie Houser or someone) have a high level of
> maturity?
>
Don't confuse technical knowledge with maturity. "Maturity" include
several factors - when to fight, when to walk away, and not having a
tantrum and trying to (and I had one officer actually say this to me)
"take as many of you with me as I can."
>
> > 1. When you are upset with someone do you:
> > a.) Consider the circumstance before saying anything
> Yes, sounds pretty amazing doesn't it? But I'm usually dealing with
> authority figures (since I'm a kid) and this is always the best choice
> (except when I talk to my parents ;-)
>
This isn't a popular attitude among the children of the 90s, although I
applaud you personally for having developed the ability to forsee the
long-term consequences of your actions.
In *general* the 'kids' (a generic term for players of any age - become
an administrator and this will need no explanation) react badly to any
rule or statute that interfeeres with their favorite bug, or keeps them
from bulldozing over the NPCs, other players, large, inanimate objects,
etc. They generally react by trying to "stick it to the man." This is
ammusing from where we ("the man") sits, and we watch as the poor
picked-on player starts a campaign of propoganda, slander, misdirection,
and whining that would do any homecomin committee proud.
> > 2. Is Raquel Welch a babe?
> who?
>
*Marc begins to openly sob*
> > 5. Being a volunteer means:
> > a.) Getting free things
> > b.) You can do as little work as you like
> > c.) Participating in a cooperative effort
> Depends on what I'm volunteering for, but truthfully, mainly a & c, and
> sometimes b.
>
If you ever become an administrator or department head, you will find an
entire chunk of the population under your perview who answered 'b'.
Welcome to our particular hell.
Marc Bowden
<jlsy...@nospam.ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Actually, to tell you the
> >truth, I don't even know who "THE SAVIOR" is -- he's probably before my time
> >or I haven't been around that much or I just missed him (I've been playing
> >MUDs for about 4 years and doing dev work for 3 years).
>
> This is just a reference to Mr. Bowden's seminal draft thesis on anti-patterns
> in mud administration. It's likely that future generations of mud
administrators
> might refer to him simply as GOO (or gang of one).
>
Who, the Savior or me?
Marc Bowden
<Richard.Wool...@RSUK.rsd.de.invalid> wrote:
>
> That's right - most of the nasty things which muds get flamed
> about go on in the real mud, such as trolling other muds for
> players (aka "headhunting", in the real world), offering perks
> in return for sexual favours, taking donations (bribes), etc,
> etc. In many ways muds are good practice for the real world.
>
Though, to draw a counterpoint, this sort of behavior isn't practiced by
us old-timers or the real professional administrators. It's mainly the
perview of kids who couldn't get positions anywhere else (or were removed
for cause) and finally found DGD for Windows 95 or something as silly and
will put up a MUD for maybe 3-6 months, get bored, and go back to trying
to cheat at UO or EverQuest.
Marc Bowden
<gawd...@excite.com> wrote:
> I think the hesitancy many admin feel about hiring staff under 18 doesn't
> necessarily come from fear that they would not have the skills to complete
> the job, but that they might be lacking a level of maturity that cannot be
> gained from anything other than life experiences.
>
> I personally would not have a problem hiring someone under 18 if they were
> articulate, creative, intelligent, honest and dedicated. Then again, those
> criteria must be met by all I hire, regardless of age. Believe me, there is
> a horse load of "grownup" types that you can't trust for anything.
>
> Then there's the "issues" of what is appropriate for children (those under
> 18 are still kiddies according to most laws)....and our imm channel can get
> pretty full of base (or is that debased?) humor....and I have a problem with
> subjecting anyone under 43 to that sort of debauchery...and to be honest,
> that is probably my biggest hold back when making the decision to hire
> someone under the legal age of smack-talk. :)
>
Ours stems from the unique situation our officer cast are in - that they
have real authority and can actually adminstrate the game, add things in
without oversight, and generally make life hell for the players and
support staff if they go berserk. The age thing then is a starting point;
to wit, they need to be 18 for more legal practical reasons than any
sadistic whim of mine. We'll take under-18 under a very specific set of
circumstances (parental permission and their membership doesn't interfere
with their schoolwork) if they actually seem capable of understanding what
they're getting into.
The real show-stopper is always the interview. "I'll follow your rules
as long as they're convenient for me." is always a conversation starter,
yessir. Idiocy isn't magically eliminated at 18, but it's harder to find
qualified applicants capable of cause-and-effect analyses and any measure
of social responsibility below it.
Heck, the pickings below *25* tend to be slim....
Nick Bryant
> > That's right - most of the nasty things which muds get flamed
> > about go on in the real mud, such as trolling other muds for
> > players (aka "headhunting", in the real world), offering perks
> > in return for sexual favours, taking donations (bribes), etc,
> > etc. In many ways muds are good practice for the real world.
> >
>
> Though, to draw a counterpoint, this sort of behavior isn't
practiced by
> us old-timers or the real professional administrators. It's mainly the
> perview of kids who couldn't get positions anywhere else (or were
removed
> for cause) and finally found DGD for Windows 95 or something as silly
and
> will put up a MUD for maybe 3-6 months, get bored, and go back to
trying
> to cheat at UO or EverQuest.
I'm not, in general, disagreeing with you, but why are you quite so
down on "DGD for Windows 95"? Are you a UNIX bigot, a MudOS bigot, or a
non-LP bigot? :-)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kevin Craig
wrote:
<snipped other, unimoprtant stuff>
>> > 2. Is Raquel Welch a babe?
>> who?
>>
>
> *Marc begins to openly sob*
Yeah, I realize it's off topic, and that the rest of the
concersation that I snipped was what kept it on topic, but I can't
help it or hold back my comments any longer.
Raquel Welch is a BABE. What's really scary (well, perhaps not to
you, Mark, but to me) is that she's STILL a babe - and she's gotta be
in her late 50's by now. The younger generation will discover her -
they'll be sitting around one day in 15 years watching TV while their
wife is out shopping, flip to TBS or somewhere playing an old 60's
movie, and about come off of the couch at the sight of her. They'll
understand then.
Kevin
Aristotle
> Raquel Welch is a BABE. What's really scary (well, perhaps not to
>you, Mark, but to me) is that she's STILL a babe - and she's gotta be
>in her late 50's by now. The younger generation will discover her -
>they'll be sitting around one day in 15 years watching TV while their
>wife is out shopping, flip to TBS or somewhere playing an old 60's
>movie, and about come off of the couch at the sight of her. They'll
>understand then.
I agree wholeheartedly. It is amazing what a babe she STILL is, not to mention
what a babe she WAS. And btw, I think she is actually in her 60s believe it or
not!
-Aristotle@Threshold
--
VISIT THRESHOLD - Online Roleplaying at its Finest. Player run clans, guilds,
legal system, economy, religions, nobility, and more in a world where roleplay
is required! Roleplay online with thousands of people from all over the world.
http://www.threshold-rpg.com -**- telnet://threshold-rpg.com:23
Marc Bowden
<nicolas...@mswtech.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not, in general, disagreeing with you, but why are you quite so
> down on "DGD for Windows 95"? Are you a UNIX bigot, a MudOS bigot, or a
> non-LP bigot? :-)
>
I'm a card-carrying member of the "I hate Bill" club. ;)
- Marc, sadly, MCP+I
Henry McDaniel
>
> Raquel Welch is a BABE. What's really scary (well, perhaps not to
> you, Mark, but to me) is that she's STILL a babe - and she's gotta be
> in her late 50's by now. The younger generation will discover her -
> they'll be sitting around one day in 15 years watching TV while their
> wife is out shopping, flip to TBS or somewhere playing an old 60's
> movie, and about come off of the couch at the sight of her. They'll
> understand then.
Well last year (or two ago?) she was on the new Superman show and I
*think* she was on Buffy the Vampire Slayer too. But of course the
youngins never know how old she really is. And actually she's way
older than 50 isn't she? I seem to recall that people were marveling
about her turning 59ish in 1991. But you're right.. unless she gets
hit by a train she'll be doing sexy woman parts for a long, long time.
Come to think of it she played a vixen along side 20 year olds during
a special First Rock from the Sun a few years back that tied into
Super Bowl Sunday.
Sophia Loren can just about fit in a girl scout's uniform too. But itme
was not so kind to her husband.
-McDaniel
Daniel A. Koepke
> And actually she's way older than 50 isn't she? I seem to recall that
> people were marveling about her turning 59ish in 1991.
Assuming I can still do math -- and that's somewhat suspect -- for her to
have been 59 in 1991, she would have to have been born in 1932, and thus
would have made her feature film debut in Roustabout (with Elvis Presley!)
in 1964 at the age of 32. This doesn't seem quite right to me, since that
would put her at 37 in 100 Rifles (with Jim Brown!). As much as a babe as
she continues to be, she probably wasn't so old when she did One Million
Years B.C. (with... er... strategically placed strips of fur!). In fact,
I think I recall seeing her on Entertainment Tonight (or one of those
other crap television shows that you end up watching in shame) last year
around late August, early September. I think she was 58, then, so that'd
put her at 59 this year.
> Sophia Loren can just about fit in a girl scout's uniform too. But itme
> was not so kind to her husband.
The Lolita Complex Early-Detection System just exploded.
-dak : Remove the S...P...A...M...! to e-mail me.
Henry McDaniel
>
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Henry McDaniel wrote:
>
> > And actually she's way older than 50 isn't she? I seem to recall that
> > people were marveling about her turning 59ish in 1991.
>
> Assuming I can still do math -- and that's somewhat suspect -- for her to
> have been 59 in 1991, she would have to have been born in 1932, and thus
> would have made her feature film debut in Roustabout (with Elvis Presley!)
> in 1964 at the age of 32. This doesn't seem quite right to me, since that
> would put her at 37 in 100 Rifles (with Jim Brown!). As much as a babe as
As a point of reference... (did I mention this before?) I knew a woman who
could easily pass for 18 or 19 and she was in her 50s! And no it wasn't some
magical makeup. She drinked and smoked too. I guess it's genetic.
> she continues to be, she probably wasn't so old when she did One Million
> Years B.C. (with... er... strategically placed strips of fur!). In fact,
> I think I recall seeing her on Entertainment Tonight (or one of those
> other crap television shows that you end up watching in shame) last year
> around late August, early September. I think she was 58, then, so that'd
> put her at 59 this year.
Okay. BTW, supposedly we may all have the chance to live say 150 years and
look young due to recent genetic experiments on extending the life and
increasing the health of some simple worm. Well, either that or we'll all
be infested with immortal ring worms, I don't know. Anyhow if you had
the $10,000 a month such a fountain of youth is likely to cost and you
bought the pills.. or enema kit or however it's delivered: would you
have any motivation to not just binge on twinkies, smoke five packs
five packs of cigarettes a day or do any of the stuff now considered
unhealthy? And if you didn't wuld that be good... would it be bad? I
don't know.. just curious about folk's opinion here. We'll think of a MUD
tie in say 15 messages down in the thread of course.
> > Sophia Loren can just about fit in a girl scout's uniform too. But itme
> > was not so kind to her husband.
>
> The Lolita Complex Early-Detection System just exploded.
Be sure to towel off then. Hee hee. Couldn't resist.
-McDaniel
NEIL M HILDE
> > [snip]
> > >I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
> >
> > [snip]
> > >-- as of yet, I have not heard of their MUD.
> > >
> > >Comments?
> >
> >
> > Marc, are these the characteristic warning signs of "THE SAVIOR"?
> >
>
> You know, Jon, I was going to let the kid wrist off and let his
attention
> span run down... =P
I thought I'd stop being an eavesdropper for a moment to point out that
anyone who can code has got to have a pretty good attention span...I know. I
tried it in high school myself. That was a few years ago...4?...5?...(shrug)
Neil (Kestryll)
'No sig?'
'Too lazy...'
NEIL M HILDE
> >Lambert and Bowden:
> >Sorry guys, didn't mean to come off like some arrogant little 13-year-old
> >who had nothing better to do than mouth off.
>Maybe you could call it ManutoMud or something. ;-)
I don't get it...But, that's typical of me...
>
> > Actually, to tell you the
> >truth, I don't even know who "THE SAVIOR" is -- he's probably before my
time
> >or I haven't been around that much or I just missed him (I've been
playing
> >MUDs for about 4 years and doing dev work for 3 years).
"Oh, Dear GOD!" comes to mind....
>
> This is just a reference to Mr. Bowden's seminal draft thesis on
anti-patterns
> in mud administration. It's likely that future generations of mud
administrators
> might refer to him simply as GOO (or gang of one).
Okay...I missed that one...And probably a lot of those types of things...
> --* Mud Server Developer's Page <http://jlsysinc.home.netcom.com>
*--
> --* "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson
*--
Course, if ya cut of their hands, they still have use of their arms. And,
they be a lot less dangerous too...
Jon A. Lambert
>
>>Maybe you could call it ManutoMud or something. ;-)
>I don't get it...But, that's typical of me...
>
they reached the ripe old age of 16. Ricky Martin was a former
member of Manuto.
And getting back on the thread topic for a moment...
How about that Ricky Martin, eh? What a babe! What a hottie!
> --* "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson
>*--
>Course, if ya cut of their hands, they still have use of their arms. And,
>they be a lot less dangerous too...
Socialists are like Pokemon. Once they have all the guns,
they evolve into Communists and Nazis.
Free men ought to be considered dangerous.
--
--* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email: jlsy...@nospam.ix.netcom.com *--
Leo Biname
> Manuto was a popular latin pop group that kicked out members when
> they reached the ripe old age of 16. Ricky Martin was a former
> member of Manuto.
I believe its "Menudo".... not that anyone cares... I just thought it was
funny, because that group was popular over here back when I was 11 or so...
about 19 years ago. Never could stand them.
--
Gorion
KaVir
100...@hoodoo.koepke.org>, "Daniel A. Koepke"
<dkoepke@ScalPifoArniMa.c!om> wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Henry McDaniel wrote:
>
>> And actually she's way older than 50 isn't she? I seem to
recall that
>> people were marveling about her turning 59ish in 1991.
>
>Assuming I can still do math -- and that's somewhat suspect --
for her to
>have been 59 in 1991, she would have to have been born in 1932,
and thus
>would have made her feature film debut in Roustabout (with
Elvis Presley!)
>in 1964 at the age of 32. This doesn't seem quite right to me,
since that
>would put her at 37 in 100 Rifles (with Jim Brown!). As much
as a babe as
One Million
>Years B.C. (with... er... strategically placed strips of
fur!). In fact,
>I think I recall seeing her on Entertainment Tonight (or one of
those
>other crap television shows that you end up watching in shame)
last year
>around late August, early September. I think she was 58, then,
so that'd
>put her at 59 this year.
See: http://webhome.idirect.com/~dmeraska/RW/rw_bio.html
Not that I knew who she was, until I did a search (and yes, I've
seen One Million Years B.C.)
NEIL M HILDE
Think you're closer....I do remember the group now. Think it was something I
caught as I flipped past VH1...
"Leo Biname" <gori...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38cd0...@news.sysads.com...
--
Neil
(Kestryll)
Kestryll's Land
www.geocities.com/kestryll.geo
Kestryll's MUD List
pages.prodigy.net/kestryll
Greg Miller
>
> Are you tired of programming the same old muds, tired of the same old tired
> ideas? Are you gay too? We are looking for programmers for paid and
> otherwise
> compensated positions to complete a sophisticated and highly entertaining
> online
> game for a gay audience. This is the most sophisticated and expensive
Ohhh.... OK. It's for a gay audience. When I saw "and otherwise
compensated" I thought maybe *that* was why it specified gay
programmers.
--
http://www.classic-games.com/
History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
*** Please limit .sigs to four lines and avoid HTML mail or posts. ***
Greg Miller
>
> > Heck, Nick, you should see the whining when we advertize that "we are
> > looking for adult programmers."
>
> And I still don't understand this mentality.
> I code better than the C++ teacher at my high school.
> mature enough and has the ability to work on and develop a MUD?
I suppose it's not a problem as long as you present your maturity
certification card.
> Yes, I know there are some teens who have incredibly bad spelling skills,
> cannot communicate, want to wreck the environment after gaining privileges,
> etc. But that is not a convincing argument because there are many others who
> would love to work in a friendly environment at which they have the ability
> to test out their skills and creativity.
Why should a mud developer risk dealing with the former just to be fair
to the latter?
scott guzman
=I believe its "Menudo".... not that anyone cares... I just thought it
was funny, because that group was popular over here back when I was 11
Where exactly is 'here'? Anyway, Menudo sounds much better. It actually
means something in spanish and from my vague remembering of what it
actually means, it seems like it would be ok for a pop band name.
Daniel A. Koepke
> Where exactly is 'here'? Anyway, Menudo sounds much better. It actually
> means something in spanish and from my vague remembering of what it
> actually means, it seems like it would be ok for a pop band name.
You do not have a good memory. Menudo is a type of soup, noted because a
major ingredient is tripe. Tripe. As in, the stomach of an animal.
Yep, tripe soup sounds like a good pop band name to me.
-dak
scott guzman
a major ingredient is tripe. Tripe. As in, the stomach of an animal.
No, it's not that I have a bad memory, it's that there's another meaning
for it. Though it may have originated from tripe. Besides, with groups
like "Garbage", it's clear that not -everyone- wants a big shiny name.
Fyre
people to make a band... boy are we off topic or what from the original off
topic subject! :)
"scott guzman" <sha...@writeme.com> wrote in message
news:38EE21...@writeme.com...
scott guzman
=I believe that "Menudo" can also mean "a mix"...=
exactly :-)! I think something like a pel mel mix :-).
=so a mix of different people to make a band...=
:-)
=boy are we off topic or what from the original off topic subject! :)=
lol :-)