After how much coding can you release your own dist.
Leo Biname
Here's an interesting question a friend asked me the other day. After
how much code revision/changes before you can release a distribution? Since
I have seen Derek Snider on this list, I'll use Smaug as an example. Say I
have a Smaug based distribution, and have altered it so that pretty much all
that remains original is the area format? Its funny because I don't code
for any mud, as I prefer to play, and I only program for fun. However, a
friend has seen the changes I have made and thinks I should release it to
general public. I don't think I will, but I was looking through the license
files, and didn't find anything there that could answer the question.
--
Gorion
flet...@post.queensu.ca
> After how much code revision/changes before you can release a distribution?
the name changing and so forth. You cannot release new versions of SMAUG
code. Only Derek Snider can do that. You cannot release new versions of
ROM code, only Russ Taylor and the ROM consortium can do that. However,
if you change nothing and just repackage it with a new name, there's no
point (and it's inconsiderate to the original authors). The important
things that you must do when releasing new code distributions is to ensure
that all of the credit to _prior_ works in the code are there.
For example, if you are basing your distribution off of Smaug, you must
ensure that you properly credit _everyone_ that Derek Snider does. Say
that you also added in some memory code from ROM to replace the SMAUG
stuff. Now you have to credit the author of the memory code. And so it
goes.
Ae.
KaVir
>release a distribution?
There is no defined amount, although there is little point in
releasing a derivative that is practically the same as it's
parent codebase.
>Since I have seen Derek Snider on this list, I'll use Smaug as
>an example. Say I have a Smaug based distribution, and have
>altered it so that pretty much all that remains original is the
>area format?
If you release it, it becomes a Smaug derivative, bound by the
Diku license, the Merc license, the Smaug license and your own
license.
>Its funny because I don't code for any mud, as I prefer to
>play, and I only program for fun. However, a friend has seen
>the changes I have made and thinks I should release it to
>general public. I don't think I will, but I was looking
>through the license files, and didn't find anything there that
>could answer the question.
If you've got something original you'd do better off opening it
up as a mud. Smaug, Ack! and GodWars were originally all muds
that only released their code (thus becoming codebases) because
the code had already been stolen anyway, and the authors wanted
to at least have some control over the distributions.
Personally I've yet to see a fourth generation Diku-Merc
codebase that contained anything worthwhile, except perhaps
for RoT or UltraEnvy (which are basically just enhanced
versions of their parent codebase). The third generation muds
on the other hand (Smaug, Ack!, ROM, Envy, NiMUD, GodWars, etc)
are all very different from each other.
KaVir.
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George Reese
: Hey There,
: Here's an interesting question a friend asked me the other day. After
: how much code revision/changes before you can release a distribution? Since
: I have seen Derek Snider on this list, I'll use Smaug as an example. Say I
: have a Smaug based distribution, and have altered it so that pretty much all
: that remains original is the area format? Its funny because I don't code
: for any mud, as I prefer to play, and I only program for fun. However, a
: friend has seen the changes I have made and thinks I should release it to
: general public. I don't think I will, but I was looking through the license
: files, and didn't find anything there that could answer the question.
Part of it depends on the license under which you are operating. Some
works do not allow for the development of derivative works. Others are
in the public domain (which means they expressly contain the phrase
"this work released into the public domain", NOT that you can get it
from a public ftp site). Anything in the public domain can be used and
twisted any way you like. The only public domain mud code I know of is
Dead Souls, which is useless without MudOS, which is not public
domain.
If you are working with a non-PD work that allows derivatives, then
any work you create from that is considered a derivative work under
copyright law. That means you own the derivative work, but that the
original author still has rights to it as well--namely the portions
created by the original author. As such, you cannot use the derivative
work in any way that violates your right to use the original work. For
example, changing 50% of the SMAUG code and then calling it SMAUG-a
(which I understand to be a violation of the SMAUG license). In that
case, you have violated your right to use the original code and can no
longer user that code. I believe you are also subject to a certain
level of compensitory damages.
Of course, I am not a lawyer and if you are daring to dive into the
ethically unclean waters of challenging the original intents of an
author of free software, you should consult one.
--
George Reese (bo...@imaginary.com) http://www.imaginary.com/~borg
On meurt toujours trop tôt -- ou trop tard. Et cependant la vie est
là, terminée; le trait est tiré, il faut faire la somme. Tu n'es rien
d'autre que ta vie. -Jean-Paul Sartre, Huis Clos
Derek Snider
"Leo Biname" <gori...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38bcc748.0@scratchy...
> Hey There,
> Here's an interesting question a friend asked me the other day. After
> how much code revision/changes before you can release a distribution?
Since
> I have seen Derek Snider on this list, I'll use Smaug as an example. Say
I
> have a Smaug based distribution, and have altered it so that pretty much
all
> that remains original is the area format? Its funny because I don't code
> for any mud, as I prefer to play, and I only program for fun. However, a
> friend has seen the changes I have made and thinks I should release it to
> general public. I don't think I will, but I was looking through the
license
> files, and didn't find anything there that could answer the question.
As everyone else has said, there is no official state at which a code base
becomes significantly changed enough to be considered a suitable new
derivative. A lot of the derivatives out there contain very few changes
from the parent, and likewise quite a few contain considerable changes.
Personally I'd say that the code should involve at least a couple months
of serious work (not just patching in code snippets) before you should
be able to say, "This is a new derivative XYZ Mud based on ABC Mud".
The time spent on the code is relative to your skill level.
Leo Biname
involved in my code. Pretty much any that remains original format is the
OLC interface, though I removed all the OLC menus, and area structures.
Everything else is pretty much redone. I never used any snippet as I felt
that plugging and playing of other peoples code was not right, and it never
just fit in. As I said, I just like programming for fun and to create a
place that I enjoyed. The whole spell system has been rewritten and doesn't
follow standard diku/merc/smaug types. I don't plan on releasing it to the
public, at least not anytime soon, I've only been working on it for about 2
years now. I just love the idea of programming for the pure enjoyment of
it, without having to be responsible to anyone else. In some of the *.c
files, only thing there from original code is SMAUG's license files. Once I
get done with this code, maybe I will spend another two years on another
base and check out their different coding styles.
--
Gorion
"Derek Snider" <de...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:3%Vu4.158721$B6.10...@quark.idirect.com...
Tanzelax
I was wondering, after reading some of these postings...
If I were playing numerous envy, smaug, circle, and other
muds, and then downloaded the ack codebase and basically
ported everything I liked (coding it myself, using
knowledge from just playing under the corresponding muds),
would I be subjected to the licenses of the codebases I
took ideas from?
-Tanzelax
--------------------------------------------------------
| "Veni, Vidi, Fugi" "I came, I saw, I retreated" |
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| Email: tanzelax(at)reviewpe.com ICQ: 19298000 |
|========================================================|
| Eve was not the first to pluck and || "God Emperor |
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| first and he learned by this to put || -Frank |
| the blame on Eve. || Herbert |
--------------------------------------------------------
George Reese
je...@cc239354-c.catv1.md.home.com
You may not be legally required to do so, but crediting (in the credits)
the ideas you used to their codebases/authors is always at least a classy
idea. And it's always a good idea.
*shrug* You aren't subjected to the license agreements unles syou actually
use code from those bases.
Derek Snider
you've changed it.
"Leo Biname" <gori...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38bd5653.0@scratchy...
news.sysads.com
will make a posting on this group, and invite people to come take a look. I
have to admit that the main reason why I left the areas and OLC alone is
because I can't build worth anything, and its so much easier to edit it
online when you just want to make changes. However, I would like to state
that I have no problems with SMAUG, I just chose it to edit since it had a
good OLC. :) But right now, programming is too much fun to actually put it
up for outside access.
--
Gorion