What would *you* pay for an excellent mud?
Michael Sellers
("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
let me ask people here:
What would you be willing to pay for an on-line, graphical mud?
Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
I know some out there are violently opposed to paying anything, but I
suspect even some of them would plunk down *something* if the experience
was good enough.
Currently the ImagiNation Network charges $2/hour and up ($3.95 if you
exceed your hourly allotment), and Compuserve's new WorldsAway chat
service is supposed to cost something like $4/hour on top of basic
service.
So what do you think? WOuld you pay $2/hour or $1 or 50 cents?
At what point does an online graphical experience become too expensive?
Enquiring minds...
(Ah the joys of unscientific/Usenet "research" :-) )
Thanks folks.
--
Michael Sellers Terra Nova Interactive Corp. mi...@terranova.com
(503) 538-2745 FAX (503) 538-9517 http://www.terranova.com/~sellers
Email me for info on UI Design seminars: 2-5 days, in-house or public
Martian
==Okay, taking my life in my hands, donning my Mark IV Asbestos Suit
==("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
==let me ask people here:
==What would you be willing to pay for an on-line, graphical mud?
==Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
I wouldn't want to pay anything. First of all, I don't believe
I will like graphical muds, but most of all I think what makes
a mud a good one are its players. That is, the players are far
more important than anything else.
Since I would be one of the players I don't think paying would
be a good idea.
Abigail
Jason Newquist
: Okay, taking my life in my hands, donning my Mark IV Asbestos Suit
: ("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
: let me ask people here:
Heh.
: What would you be willing to pay for an on-line, graphical mud?
: Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
It seems to me that if *IF* I were to even consider paying for such a
thing, I'd insist on flat rates. $10/month sounds reasonable (since some
people are paying about twice that for mere *access* in the first place).
That price of admission buys you unlimited access during the month, as
well as any number of characters you want (up to the MUD maximum...say,
two or three active characters).
But charging per-use would definitely make me not even consider the
MUD. Witness sites that charge flat-rate access fees (and their success).
This is the way to go.
Hope this helps,
................................................
Jason Newquist UC Davis jrnew...@ucdavis.edu
http://maxwell.ucdavis.edu/~newquist/
j_ba...@wmc34c.wmc.edu
>Michael Sellers (sel...@teleport.com) wrote:
>: Okay, taking my life in my hands, donning my Mark IV Asbestos Suit
>: ("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
>: let me ask people here:
>
>: Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
>
>as $1/day or $30/month. Any more than that, and I'd be just as
>happy going back to free muds.
>
>--
>ck...@netcom.com
>-----------------
>Do unto others before they do unto you.
Pay? For a MUD? I couldn't care less if it was graphical (there are free ones
out there). I would never pay for a MUD. Why pay when you can{just play for
free?
Blueboy J_BA...@WMC34B.WMC.EDU
"I know that I don't have a nifty little qoute, but who cares?"
Darel Finkbeiner
: Okay, taking my life in my hands, donning my Mark IV Asbestos Suit
: ("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
: let me ask people here:
: What would you be willing to pay for an on-line, graphical mud?
: Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
: I know some out there are violently opposed to paying anything, but I
: suspect even some of them would plunk down *something* if the experience
: was good enough.
: Currently the ImagiNation Network charges $2/hour and up ($3.95 if you
: exceed your hourly allotment), and Compuserve's new WorldsAway chat
: service is supposed to cost something like $4/hour on top of basic
: service.
: So what do you think? WOuld you pay $2/hour or $1 or 50 cents?
: At what point does an online graphical experience become too expensive?
: Enquiring minds...
: (Ah the joys of unscientific/Usenet "research" :-) )
: Thanks folks.
: --
: Michael Sellers Terra Nova Interactive Corp. mi...@terranova.com
: (503) 538-2745 FAX (503) 538-9517 http://www.terranova.com/~sellers
: Email me for info on UI Design seminars: 2-5 days, in-house or public
Every mud that I get on I pay for. I spend my time and energy getting on
the mud. In fact, I pay for MUD's the same way I pay for network TV.
Advertisement. I watch ad's for this that and the other because I want
to use the service. If mud's would simply take advantage of this there
would be no need for pay muds. Think about it. How many thousands of
people visit muds every day?
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darel Finkbeiner <insert tagline here>
da...@primenet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Kerr
: Okay, taking my life in my hands, donning my Mark IV Asbestos Suit
: ("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
: let me ask people here:
: What would you be willing to pay for an on-line, graphical mud?
: Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
If the mud was really a step above the rest, I would go as high
Schultz, Russell
>Every mud that I get on I pay for. I spend my time and energy getting
on
>the mud. In fact, I pay for MUD's the same way I pay for network TV.
>Advertisement. I watch ad's for this that and the other because I want
>to use the service. If mud's would simply take advantage of this there
>would be no need for pay muds. Think about it. How many thousands of
>people visit muds every day?
>
>
You gain 500 experience points.
This mindless killing brought to you by "Liquid Drano!"
You raise a level!
Eat at Joe's, today!
<FooMUD, Home of the Whopper, HP:50, MANA: 100, MP: 93>
I can hardly wait ;^)
Kay-Yut Chen
: ==Okay, taking my life in my hands, donning my Mark IV Asbestos Suit
: ==("guaranteed to survive 24 hours in talk.religion.*" so they say),
: ==let me ask people here:
: ==What would you be willing to pay for an on-line, graphical mud?
: ==Okay, a *good* one, by whatever definition you choose to use.
Around $150, which is about the amount I am paying every month for
a on-line graphical MUD now.
--
=====================================================================
| A Traveler between dimensions | |
+ ------------------------------+ |
| |
| In the Kingdom of Drakkar, I am known as <Narius the Mentalist> |
| To the denizens of Britainnia, my name is <Seldon the Avatar> |
| The Terran Confederation pilots call me <One the Cat Slayer> |
| |
| <<Kay-Yut Chen>> |
| |
=====================================================================
David Fay David Fay
>
>
> suspect even some of them would plunk down *something* if the experience
> was good enough.
>
> Currently the ImagiNation Network charges $2/hour and up ($3.95 if you
> exceed your hourly allotment), and Compuserve's new WorldsAway chat
> service is supposed to cost something like $4/hour on top of basic
> service.
>
> So what do you think? WOuld you pay $2/hour or $1 or 50 cents?
> At what point does an online graphical experience become too expensive?
> Enquiring minds...
Um.. First of all you would only get users for a little while before other
muds just as could came without any charge. I would not even consider
going to your mud. Muds are for fun and shouldnt have to pay for them. For
your last question its to expensive as soon as it costs money. There are
many people who will make graphical muds with out any charge.
Avery Fay
Paul Frederiksen, Jr.
--
Name: Paul Frederiksen Jr.
E-Mail: kh...@flugzeug.svs.com
IRCNICK: Paul
"My opinion is the only opinion! Any questions?"
http://www.svs.com/users/pff
David Wohlferd
dw
Neal Dutta
>muds just as could came without any charge. I would not even consider
>going to your mud. Muds are for fun and shouldnt have to pay for them. For
>your last question its to expensive as soon as it costs money. There are
>many people who will make graphical muds with out any charge.
>
>Avery Fay
Do you know of any free graphic muds? Not Dragonspires, from what I hear all
you can do is look around, and it's a social mud.
>
Ryan Rager
Just wanted to invite everybody to come check out this mud that ive
been on for about the last 2 to 3 months. Its called CrimsonMud II:
: 6 classes, 23 races
: alias system (macros)
: Hunt/track ablilty
: about 100 different spells, with 20 or so skills
: pkilling is allowed.. but not encouraged
: ansi color
: theres been a new zone added atleast 1 very month
: and mainly its very cool and friendly.. theres usually about
20-30 people on so theres very little if any lag.
Hope to see you there,
Cryic the Avatar :)
Kay-Yut Chen
: dw
: >Around $150, which is about the amount I am paying every month for
: >a on-line graphical MUD now.
It is Kingdom of Drakkar on the MPGnet. SVGA FE, Ultima 6 style
graphics with multiple moveable (not resizeable) windows.
MPGnet runs ad in CGW and i wrote a review for KoD at the Game
Domain WWW site. The review is kind of out of date since at
the time, I am only using the old VGA FE, not the new one. But
the game is the same.
d...@netcom.com
: Hello fellow mudders :>
I'm sure this MUD is very nice and all... but, uh, where the hell IS it?
An address would be nice :)
OPIUM
d...@netcom.com
Tan Bock Hoe
: Hello fellow mudders :>
: Just wanted to invite everybody to come check out this mud that ive
: been on for about the last 2 to 3 months. Its called CrimsonMud II:
Can u include the address too =) thanks
--
___Joe_Tan__NUS_DISCS____email:tanb...@iscs.nus.sg__________________
| |
| o \o/ __o \ __| \ / |__ / o__ \o/ o |
| /|\ | /\ --o \o | o/ o-- /\ | /|\ |
| / \ / \ /\ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ /\ / \ / \ |
| |
|__P.E.a.C.E._oN_E.a.R.T.H._________________________________________|
Ed Snible
>It is Kingdom of Drakkar on the MPGnet. SVGA FE, Ultima 6 style
>graphics with multiple moveable (not resizeable) windows.
>
>MPGnet runs ad in CGW and i wrote a review for KoD at the Game
>Domain WWW site. The review is kind of out of date since at
>the time, I am only using the old VGA FE, not the new one. But
>the game is the same.
That sounds interesting, is there a screen shot somewhere?
Slash
esn...@goodnet.com
David Wohlferd
dw
j_ba...@wmc34c.wmc.edu
so I don't know how good it is (I only have 2400 baud!). If I find the
address, then I'll be sure to send it!
Also, what the first post meant was not that there are but that there will
has to remember that MUDding is not our constitutional right. Show me
the last time where congress passed a bill saying that "All MUDs must be
free!"
Don't forget that the administration on the MUD you are playing is putting
alot of time, and even more money (usually) into making something fun for
you. You also have to pay to go to the movies (that's fun isn't it)?
Blueboy
be tons of free grahical MUDs. Which I definetly believe! But he also
Ryan Rager
>
>Ryan Rager (cy...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: Hello fellow mudders :>
>: Just wanted to invite everybody to come check out this mud that
ive
>: been on for about the last 2 to 3 months. Its called CrimsonMud II:
>: : alias system (macros)
>: : Hunt/track ablilty
>: : about 100 different spells, with 20 or so skills
>: : pkilling is allowed.. but not encouraged
>: : ansi color
>: : theres been a new zone added atleast 1 very month
>: : and mainly its very cool and friendly.. theres usually
about
>: 20-30 people on so theres very little if any lag.
>
>: Hope to see you there,
>: Cryic the Avatar :)
>
>
>I'm sure this MUD is very nice and all... but, uh, where the hell IS
it?
>An address would be nice :)
>
>OPIUM
>d...@netcom.com
Ack.. sorry guys (and gals) the adress is 128.222.159.144 4000
Hope to see you there.
none
da...@primenet.com (Darel Finkbeiner) wrote in rec.games.mud.misc:
>Every mud that I get on I pay for. I spend my time and energy getting on
>the mud. In fact, I pay for MUD's the same way I pay for network TV.
>Advertisement. I watch ad's for this that and the other because I want
>to use the service. If mud's would simply take advantage of this there
>would be no need for pay muds. Think about it. How many thousands of
>people visit muds every day?
You WATCH the ads? I mean, you sit right there and stare at them and think
about them?? I despise ads. I hate ads so much that I mute the TV, and
when the advertisers insist on trying to ruin my damn TV tube for their
gain by strobing it with annoying color flashes, I *blank* it.
I hate ads SO much, that Usenet itself is turning into a sewer as far as
I'm concerned. Little kids, and adults with little-kid minds, running
around spamming all the time like we're going to actually BUY their shit,
or read their ads or even care if they live or die.
I rarely watch TV any more; is this what you're proposing? Killing off
muds? Choking the net as we shit in our own backyards? I don't buy
magazines or newspapers. Why bother? There's little information in there,
and the ads make the magazines/newspapers difficult to handle... and the
WASTE. The things must be 85% trash, and I'm going to *pay* to be annoyed
and fill up dumps? I don't think so.
And since I mud maybe once a month (less lately), I certainly wouldn't pay
to have some S.O.B. flapping his gums at me, or cramming stuff onto my
screen or mailbox. No way.
(Go to mud, come back 1 hour later and find 50 megs of ads in your
mailbox... or better yet, your 5-meg disk allotment is used up by the ads,
and your friends' letters are all bouncing. Oh yeah, THIS is the way to
go).
Michael Sellers
: I rarely watch TV any more; is this what you're proposing? Killing off
: muds? Choking the net as we shit in our own backyards? I don't buy
: magazines or newspapers. Why bother? There's little information in there,
: and the ads make the magazines/newspapers difficult to handle... and the
: WASTE. The things must be 85% trash, and I'm going to *pay* to be annoyed
: and fill up dumps? I don't think so.
: And since I mud maybe once a month (less lately), I certainly wouldn't pay
: to have some S.O.B. flapping his gums at me, or cramming stuff onto my
: screen or mailbox. No way.
I'm not in favor of TV-style advertising on MUDs (if there's to be any at
all), but you ought to realize that views like yours are hardly the
mainstream. *Most* people watch TV, including cheerfully watching the
ads. Many people page right past the print ads in Newspapers, but enough
don't that it's worth the advertisers' while to print them.
I don't know if advertisting will come to muds, but iconoclastic views
about modern media are surely no defense.
tsa...@netcom.com
Michael Sellers <sel...@teleport.com> wrote:
>I'm not in favor of TV-style advertising on MUDs (if there's to be any at
>all), but you ought to realize that views like yours are hardly the
>mainstream. *Most* people watch TV, including cheerfully watching the
>ads. Many people page right past the print ads in Newspapers, but enough
>don't that it's worth the advertisers' while to print them.
>
>I don't know if advertisting will come to muds, but iconoclastic views
>about modern media are surely no defense.
You can't have just a little advertising. Either you agree to be
blasted into kingdom come with it, or you decide enough is enough.
I'm sure advertising will come to everything on the net. I'm equally sure
it will be much, much worse than it is on TV right now (and right now, 1/3
of a show is advertising, sometimes more. Give up trying to get absorbed in
anything... every 6-8 minutes, there's another four- or five-minute ad
break). I don't have to lay down and take it passively, though.
I don't claim to represent the morons that sit there with spittle hanging
from their mouths while the ads roll past. I don't claim to represent
anyone except myself. I hardly think I'm alone, though. And mainstream
Americans are a bunch of drooling, overbreeding, undereducated idiots,
apparently. They must be, if they're so joyously willing to embrace
something so obnoxious.
j_ba...@wmc34c.wmc.edu
Dr. Cat
: I'm not in favor of TV-style advertising on MUDs (if there's to be any at
: all), but you ought to realize that views like yours are hardly the
: mainstream. *Most* people watch TV, including cheerfully watching the
: ads. Many people page right past the print ads in Newspapers, but enough
: don't that it's worth the advertisers' while to print them.
: I don't know if advertisting will come to muds, but iconoclastic views
: about modern media are surely no defense.
So here's a defense. Telecommunications systems make possible a broad
range of new forms of marketing and promotion of products. Given that
existing forms such as TV advertising are considered annoying by a
significant percentage of consumers, and are skipped over by many others,
if more effective forms are possible online they will come to dominate
instead. I maintain that more effective, less annoying forms of
marketing are indeed possible. I would point to the games from Apogee,
Id, and Epic Megagames as an example. Their shareware episodes are
essentially their "advertisement" - and yet it is an ad that people are
not annoyed by, but go out of their way to get copies of.
Any company that tries to bring TV style advertising techniques online,
on MUDs or elsewhere, is likely to fail. Witness the immense negative
reaction to Prodigy's use of that kind of model. Any advertising that
does succeed on the MUDs is likely to take a very different form.
***********************************************************************
Dr. Cat / Dragon's Eye Productions ** Come play DragonSpires!
******************************************** ftp.eden.com pub/dspire
Dragonspires is a graphic mud for PCs. ** has everything you need!
***********************************************************************
** http://www.realtime.net/~gauntlet/dspire.html for more info **
***********************************************************************
Night Child
>
-[snippage]-
>Any company that tries to bring TV style advertising techniques online,
>on MUDs or elsewhere, is likely to fail. Witness the immense negative
>reaction to Prodigy's use of that kind of model. Any advertising that
>does succeed on the MUDs is likely to take a very different form.
>
The way I see it there are two types of advertising. One is the annoying
in-your-face style typical of TV and radio, where you pretty much have to
pay at least a little attention because you are waiting for your show to
come back on. People have tried this on the net and instead of braindead
consumers they get intelligent people who are very angry at having their
normal activities interrupted by crap. The kind of advertising that does
work is more passive. In fact there is one place on the net where
advertising is rampant and nobody minds: The World-Wide-Web. The reason is
because people CHOOSE to view the WWW page because a non-invasive little
link interested them so they clicked on it. IMHO the WWW is almost perfect
advertising. You only see it if you want to, and if you do want to you can
select what information you want on the product right off the page. Now, IF
advertising ever came to MUDs (*shudder*) the best form would be something
like a bulletin board that the user chooses to look at, and it might contain
a SMALL blurb and maybe a WWW link for more info. For graphical muds it they
could do something like click on a company name and have the ad pop up on
the screen.
- Night Child
Doug Goldner
service. I don't think the advertising they do is wonderful, but their
business model certainly works.
Doug
Dave Austin
[snip]
> marketing are indeed possible. I would point to the games from Apogee,
> Id, and Epic Megagames as an example. Their shareware episodes are
> essentially their "advertisement" - and yet it is an ad that people are
> not annoyed by, but go out of their way to get copies of.
>
If you look at this from a total marketing point of view then this is
a very old, tried and tested technique of marketing called 'sampling',
also known as "Hey! Try this, and if you like it you can buy
some more over here". Nothing wrong with it in my opinion, in fact
I prefer to try something before I buy it, generally.
Dave Austin
--
+ - The Legend Lives - Avalon-rpg.com 23 (204.248.237.2 23) - +
+ - - http://www.avalon.co.uk - - +
Minstrel Alien
: If you look at this from a total marketing point of view then this is
: a very old, tried and tested technique of marketing called 'sampling',
: also known as "Hey! Try this, and if you like it you can buy
: some more over here". Nothing wrong with it in my opinion, in fact
: I prefer to try something before I buy it, generally.
Actually, with ID games I think it has more in common with drug dealing.
"Hey! Kid/Adult/Dog! Try this awesome new game for free!"
<play play play>
"That was great...but I feel kinda shaky now...I need MORE!"
"That will cost you."
I have nothing against them, don't get me wrong, I love their games and
their distribution system for them. But after I played Doom, it wasn't
as if I had a choice about buying it. I was hooked.
<shriek!> I lack a .sig, whatever shall I do?
Dave Austin
thea...@netcom.com "Minstrel Alien" writes:
> Actually, with ID games I think it has more in common with drug dealing.
>
> "Hey! Kid/Adult/Dog! Try this awesome new game for free!"
> <play play play>
> "That was great...but I feel kinda shaky now...I need MORE!"
> "That will cost you."
>
> I have nothing against them, don't get me wrong, I love their games and
> their distribution system for them. But after I played Doom, it wasn't
> as if I had a choice about buying it. I was hooked.
>
Well, as I said, it's an old, tried and tested technique. But it only
works if you have a good product. You don't see many people selling
'miracle cure' potions, for example, saying, "Sure, take it away and try
it and then if you like it you can come back and buy some for your
sick old Granny."
Dr. Cat
: Do you consider Prodigy a failure? It is the largest commercial online
: service. I don't think the advertising they do is wonderful, but their
: business model certainly works.
: Doug
I consider Prodigy's advertising model a failure, and Prodigy's overall
business model somewhat more successful. The fact is, their original
projections called for a very large portion of their revenues to come
from selling advertising, but they discovered in practice they weren't
able to sell NEARLY as much ad space as they had forecast. Whereas the
level of usage of their bulletin boards turned out to be something they
had hugely underestimated. They ended up greatly expanding the number of
bulletin boards they had, improving the user interface to them, and
starting to charge an hourly rate for using them rather than allowing
people unlimited access for a flat monthly fee. And they changed their
business plans so they weren't presuming they would be getting all those
advertising revenues any more. When people HATE a particular form of
advertising, when it does not generate enough added sales to justify the
cost of placing the ad, you will not see old businesses renewing their ads,
or new businesses rushing in to advertise the same way.
aim...@digital.net
access, unless it is oh, Daggerfall gone Multi user in
which case I would up it to $20. To put it bluntly, I
am not rich and will NOT pay more for a service
than I make in an hour in Ocala, Florida. I use AOL
exactly five hours a month, because anything more
than that is like flushing money down a rat hole. I
would use it more, but wont until they come up with
a flat rate. They even have a neat online game,
"Federation" but to play it would bankrupt me.
FourSpace
: Me, I would pay maybe $10 a month for unlimited
I would pay $0 to play an excellent mud. Simply because there are
plently of excellent free muds!
Fireball
Kay-Yut Chen
: access, unless it is oh, Daggerfall gone Multi user in
: which case I would up it to $20. To put it bluntly, I
: am not rich and will NOT pay more for a service
: than I make in an hour in Ocala, Florida. I use AOL
: exactly five hours a month, because anything more
: than that is like flushing money down a rat hole. I
: would use it more, but wont until they come up with
: a flat rate. They even have a neat online game,
: "Federation" but to play it would bankrupt me.
I have been paying around $150 every month for the
online CRPG Kingdom of Drakkar. I have bene doing that
for around 3 yrs now.
sdf
Ask yourself what would *you* pay to go see a movie.
I doubt that any one would say $7.25! $2.40/hr!
What would you pay for a hardback book!
$26?
$3/hr?
What would you pay for a weekend at Gencon?
hotel, food, transportation, entrance..
$/hr?
If the corrolary is that you'll pay $0 for your entertainment, that's
one statement. It's not meaningful to ask for a roleplaying
environment to be provided at no cost, however. All the reputable
services these days pay their GM's in one form or another and have
overhead.
Beyond that I won't argue the 'which is the higher quality' question.
Taste is something that can't be argued one way or another.
The sole point I did wish to convey, though, is that all othe rforms
of entertainment have steadily been going up and multiplayer on-line
games have steadily been going down <from $6/hr + in 1992 to $1.80/hr
in 1995, some lower, some higher.. but generally in the $1.5-$3/hr
range.. which when you average out everything else is fairly standard
for all forms of entertainment, if not low>.
Steve
FourSpace (re...@msstate.edu) wrote:
: aim...@digital.net wrote:
: : Me, I would pay maybe $10 a month for unlimited
: : access, unless it is oh, Daggerfall gone Multi user in
: : which case I would up it to $20. To put it bluntly, I
: : am not rich and will NOT pay more for a service
: : than I make in an hour in Ocala, Florida. I use AOL
: : exactly five hours a month, because anything more
: : than that is like flushing money down a rat hole. I
: : would use it more, but wont until they come up with
: : a flat rate. They even have a neat online game,
: : "Federation" but to play it would bankrupt me.
: I would pay $0 to play an excellent mud. Simply because there are
Darren Hebden
>Beyond that I won't argue the 'which is the higher quality' question.
>Taste is something that can't be argued one way or another.
Just don't ask us to justify it for you. If someone believes they have
a service worth paying for, let them try. People will soon show
whether they are right or not.
But trying to equate it to going to the cinema or purchasing books is
a whole different kettle of fish and doesn't really stand as an
argument.
Bye.
Darren S. Hebden d...@skoardy.demon.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------
Check out my backdrop tiles on any Simtel site/mirror!
look out for - SimTel/win3/desktop/brains10.zip
Diablo
Hebden) wrote:
> But trying to equate it to going to the cinema or purchasing books is
> a whole different kettle of fish and doesn't really stand as an
> argument.
Why is that? All three are forms of entertainment. If you are willing to
pay 3 bucks an hour to see a movie, why not pay 3 bucks an hour to play a
game?
Michael Sellers
: In article <30bf4d46.394745@pubnews>, d...@skoardy.demon.co.uk (Darren
In fact this is a common measure of what people will pay for
entertainment for those who worry about such things. It's amazing how
well the $3/hour estimate holds across different forms of entertainment,
though there has been a _slight_ downward trend in computer games recently.
--
Michael Sellers Terra Nova Interactive Corp. mi...@terranova.com
(503) 625-4385 http://www.terranova.com/~sellers (New and Improved!)
Interactive entertainment software like you've never seen before.
Darren Hebden
>In article <30bf4d46.394745@pubnews>, d...@skoardy.demon.co.uk (Darren
>Hebden) wrote:
>
>> But trying to equate it to going to the cinema or purchasing books is
>> a whole different kettle of fish and doesn't really stand as an
>> argument.
>
>Why is that? All three are forms of entertainment. If you are willing to
>pay 3 bucks an hour to see a movie, why not pay 3 bucks an hour to play a
>game?
Ok, ok. I'll bite. First of all, I can't ever remember seeing a Mud
with a budget of over $40 million solely to entertain me.
Secondly. Even though I've spent a hell of a lot of money on books,
I've still got every single one (and a creaking bookcase). Each time
I return to a book, I don't have to pay for it again. Apart from
keeping logs of online time, I don't see how it could compare.
So fair enough, people will play. I know a friend from the village who
spends 20 quid a week on lottery tickets, has done since the start and
hasn't won a bean. Whatever butters your toast....
But what I'm saying is don't expect to come up with this magical
reason to justify it all so that all the little punters will wipe the
sleep from their eyes, weeping "How could we have been so blind, this
is excellent value for money" and you get that wonderful tingly
feeling from knowing this is how it should be. (Probably curing cancer
in the process too... *grin*)
ByeBye...
kper...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
: In article <30bf4d46.394745@pubnews>, d...@skoardy.demon.co.uk (Darren
: Hebden) wrote:
: > But trying to equate it to going to the cinema or purchasing books is
: > a whole different kettle of fish and doesn't really stand as an
: > argument.
: Why is that? All three are forms of entertainment. If you are willing to
: pay 3 bucks an hour to see a movie, why not pay 3 bucks an hour to play a
: game?
If alternative movies of comparable quality were available for free,
very few would pay $3/hour to see a movie. People wouldn't pay
$3/hour to play a mud unless that mud was $3/hour _better_ than
the best available free mud. Maybe it is possible to make such a
mud, but I doubt it.
Those who want to create pay muds would do well to set a flat monthly
fee rather than an hourly fee. No one wants to have to ration their
hours, *especially* if the game is great (and if it isn't _great_ they
will simply play a free mud).
sdf
doing a professional job of it. These projects are akin to where the
aerospace industry was 40 years ago: a group of inspired, dedicated
individuals can create one. These days, the projects are getting larger,
but they're still not on such a scale that one person or a small group
of individuals can't come together and put something out that has 'Just
*try* to do better than this.'
In the 1930's <?> and earlier there were airshows, and teams worked
on faster engines and sleeker designs. It was an expensive bit of
work for those folks, I'm sure, but they were creating something.
I don't think that our satisfaction from taking something from an glimmer
in our eyes all the way to conception and graduation and seeing it grow
old is necessarily that difficult to grasp. These games are a kind of
performance art. I saw an interview with Wyntan <sp?> Marsalis on
C-SPAN recently, where he was discussing jazz as a uniquely democratic
art form.. where listening is critical, and where harmony emerges
through conflict.. where the notes haven't been worked out in advance.
This is that kind of an art form, especially in its roleplaying form.
If it is done well, it also is hellaciously good entertainment.
The cure for cancer I leave to others.
Steve
Darren Hebden (d...@skoardy.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: On 4 Dec 1995 23:19:48 GMT, dia...@wwa.com (Diablo) created:
: >In article <30bf4d46.394745@pubnews>, d...@skoardy.demon.co.uk (Darren
: >Hebden) wrote:
: >
: >> But trying to equate it to going to the cinema or purchasing books is
: >> a whole different kettle of fish and doesn't really stand as an
: >> argument.
: >
: >Why is that? All three are forms of entertainment. If you are willing to
: >pay 3 bucks an hour to see a movie, why not pay 3 bucks an hour to play a
: >game?
: Ok, ok. I'll bite. First of all, I can't ever remember seeing a Mud
Tobias Benjamin Koehler
> Why is that? All three are forms of entertainment. If you are willing to
> pay 3 bucks an hour to see a movie, why not pay 3 bucks an hour to play a
> game?
Because I spend 80% of my time waiting out the net-lag?
--
tobias benjamin koehler ,-/o"O`--.._ _/(_
t.ko...@tu-bs.de _,-o'.|o 0 'O o O`o--'. e\
un...@tigerden.com (`o-..___..--''o:,-' )o /._" O "o 0 o : ._>
``--o___o..o.'' :'.O\_ ```--.\o .' `--
can be found somewhere `-`.,) \`.o`._
in central europe fL `-`-.,)
Melissa
: Diablo (dia...@wwa.com) wrote:
: > Why is that? All three are forms of entertainment. If you are willing to
: > pay 3 bucks an hour to see a movie, why not pay 3 bucks an hour to play a
: > game?
: Because I spend 80% of my time waiting out the net-lag?
What about you favorite 80% straight out of the box mud asking for
donations so the imp can buy himself a faster computer "for the mud". I
thought that muds were shareware and someone making money off the code
was a no-no whether it be a voluntary asked for donation or not?? Am I
wrong?
Diablo
> What about you favorite 80% straight out of the box mud asking for
> donations so the imp can buy himself a faster computer "for the mud". I
> thought that muds were shareware and someone making money off the code
> was a no-no whether it be a voluntary asked for donation or not?? Am I
> wrong?
Not all mud code is shareware. Some people (like myself) don't use the
standard mud drivers and either write their own or use a driver written
for the express purpose of making a pay mud.
--matt
Sebastian Andersson
>What about you favorite 80% straight out of the box mud asking for
>donations so the imp can buy himself a faster computer "for the mud". I
>thought that muds were shareware and someone making money off the code
>was a no-no whether it be a voluntary asked for donation or not?? Am I
>wrong?
Of course you are.
As far as I know no mud's code is shareware but if one mud's code where
shareware it would mean nothing when it comes to whether or not you
can use it as a to provide a service and charge money for that service.
What you are talking about applies to diku muds and diku derivates but
there are many more types of mud servers like dirt, aber, dumii, mud2,
lpmud, dgd, mudos, moo, mush, muck, mymud, untermud, ubermud, ...
Some of their authors require them to be "free for the players" while
others don't care and others just want their "fair share" of the cash
and some you have to buy and/or you have to pay royalties per player which
kind of forces you to make the players pay.
At least one mud server has the gnu public license which means the users
of it can do (almost) whatever they want to with it, except to sell
binaries without making the buyer able to get the source for no extra
cost (except for the media cost or something like that).
/Sebastian
--
---> Play DUMII at telnet://dum.ts.umu.se:2001 <---
Money wants to be free! Give them to me and I'll liberate them!
OB DISCLAIMER: Pepsi, the Devil, made me do it.
Dave Austin
>than I make in an hour in Ocala, Florida. I use AOL
>exactly five hours a month, because anything more
>than that is like flushing money down a rat hole. I
>would use it more, but wont until they come up with
>a flat rate. They even have a neat online game,
>"Federation" but to play it would bankrupt me.
For gods sake, why use AOL if you are not rich? And if you think
Federation is neat you are really missing out.
The answer to the question posed in the subject of this thread is
simple. No need to pay more than 50 pence per hour for the highest
excellence in Muds, Avalon. I thank you.
Dave Austin
+ - Avalon; Legends Never Die. Telnet: Avalon-RPG.com 23 - +