Commercial MUD Feedback
Dopil Park
The MUD is called Jurassic Park and it runs on a number of private networks
in Korea. Players are charged for their access time and its author gets a
share. He is reportedly making 50 million won a month which translates
roughly to sixty thousand dollars. I do not know how accurate his figures
are but his game is running on multiple networks and reportedly full all the
time. It has drawn so much attention as an addictive game that there is
even beginning of talk about curbing the spread of MUD like games in Korea.
I have not looked at Jurassic Park's source so I do not know how much, if
any, of it is based on public-domain MUD engines.
RE: My predictions on commercialization of MUD
My predictions are based on my experiences in the industry and intuitions
stemming from them. I am aware that intuitions are called horseshit by
people who prefer hard numbers and logic over their softer cousins. I was
not trying to stuff unsubstantiated mumbo jumbo down your throat. Just to
make you guys see a different point of view and perhaps investigate.
RE: Bandwidth Problem
Internet as it is now will not support wide spread commercial use let alone
commercial MUD. I feel that commercialization of MUD will take two paths by
two different parties:
1. Private network companies running commercial MUD games based on pure text
or minimal graphics.
2. Consumer game companies expanding their IPX/SPX based multiplayer mode to
include WinSock based multiplayer playing. Syncronizing portion of the
games like Doom and Descent will eventually have to move to a server for
games to handle more than a few players at a time. Things will look
clearer in 1996 when Windows 95 with built-in TCP/IP support and
improved game graphics suport had a few quarters to make an impact in the
game industry.
Obviously the private network companies will not suffer from the bandwidth
problem as long as they balance things right financially. The game
companies will eventually run into problems. Improvements to the
communication code will reduce the bandwidth requirements but eventually
they will hit the wall (of network admistrators).
I think above predictions are fairly reasonable and in some cases already
taking place. What is not easy for most people to buy is what will happen
when the consumer game companies run into the network bandwidth problem. In
my mind, only one thing will happen. Consumer game companies will move to
private networks until private networks mesh with public networks (4-8
years?)
So what you might say. Whether the games are running on private networks or
off internet, MUD creators and administrators will be valued. How many
people on the net do you think have real knowledge of building and running
MUDs? 2000? Lets say 10000 (probably off by a factor). Of that 10000, how
many would be good enough to create and operate commercial MUDs? I'll say
10% or 1000. How many MUDs can 1000 of you create and operate? 100? How
many MUDs will each network companies operate? A new industry in which you
have only 999 others in the entire world to compete with is really really
good in my opinion.
RE: What am I wasting my breath?
I don't know. I was just annoyed by college kids making stupid flames.
Damn I feel old.
Don
"Master, I have learned everything there is about Zen. Why am I not a
master yet?", a student asked his master.
"Because, not everything is Zen.", his master replied as he sneezed.
Dave Austin
> RE: 60K a month royalty on commercial MUD.
>
> The MUD is called Jurassic Park and it runs on a number of private networks
> in Korea.
Hmm, I can easily accept that, I don't believe there are an internet MUDs
making that amount of money just yet. But with market segmentation (private
networks) and a large captive audience (possibly limited access to other
MUDs?) I can easily imagine a MUD taking that sort of cash, especially in
an economy like Korea.
> Internet as it is now will not support wide spread commercial use let alone
> commercial MUD. I feel that commercialization of MUD will take two paths by
> two different parties:
>
> 1. Private network companies running commercial MUD games based on pure text
> or minimal graphics.
>
> 2. Consumer game companies expanding their IPX/SPX based multiplayer mode to
> include WinSock based multiplayer playing. Syncronizing portion of the
> games like Doom and Descent will eventually have to move to a server for
> games to handle more than a few players at a time. Things will look
> clearer in 1996 when Windows 95 with built-in TCP/IP support and
> improved game graphics suport had a few quarters to make an impact in the
> game industry.
>
Well, I am glad you mentioned Microsoft, and as we are finally getting
to the crux of the matter. As I stated in a previous post (elsewhere),
there is obviously no way that Microsoft and Spielberg are teaming-up
to produce free access games. They are going to widen the market
tremendously and take a huge market share of MUDs, but they wont be
MUDs as we know them now, and they wont be called MUDs either.
(I am using MUD here as a general term to cover multi-user interactive
virtual environments.)
I am mostly interested to see how they intend (if indeed they do) to keep
the socialising and communication element while circumventing keyboard use
in their graphical interface. I think even some of the very big fish may
make some huge mistakes in this area.
> RE: What am I wasting my breath?
>
> I don't know. I was just annoyed by college kids making stupid flames.
> Damn I feel old.
>
Well, I hope my comments are not taken as flames but constructive debate.
However, you can keep on calling me a stupid college kid as much as you
like! I am feeling younger already!
Dave Austin
--
+ - Legends Never Die - Avalon.co.uk (193.132.124.2) - +
Bob Farmer
>Da...@davros.demon.co.uk (Dave Austin) writes:
>
>>I am mostly interested to see how they intend (if indeed they do) to keep
>>the socialising and communication element while circumventing keyboard use
>>in their graphical interface. I think even some of the very big fish may
>>make some huge mistakes in this area.
>
>Jurassic Park as one), will impose many new challenges beyond the technical
>requirements. Balancing a commercial MUD game will be at least an order of
>magnitude harder than free MUD games. There will be a lot of new ideas
>which merits discussions. For example, how to balance money purchased power
>against time and knowledge purchased power? How to manage player abilities
>and equipments independent of a particular game? What to do with players
>hitting the level ceiling?
Boggle, what makes you think there would necessarily be concepts such as
money, equipment, levels, etc? What makes you think any good commercial
game would be anything like the free internet muds we play today?
What is the point of this entire thread? I seem to have forgotten (?).
--
Bob Farmer ucs...@pip.shsu.edu
University Computer Services, Sam Houston State Univ. (409)294-3546
Dave Austin
> Boggle, what makes you think there would necessarily be concepts such as
> money, equipment, levels, etc? What makes you think any good commercial
> game would be anything like the free internet muds we play today?
>
What makes you think they will be any different? If you are modelling
a virtual world (and lets face it, MUDs have been doing it for years)
you are probably going to want to include commerce, possessions and
perhaps some sort of social hierarchy. At the moment these tend to
transpire into money, equipment and levels, broadly speaking. There
may be new ideas as well, but I wouldn't bank on too many that we
haven't seen in MUDs already. A lot of thought and time has gone into
the making of all the various MUDs, but commercial or not, the writers
will draw on their real world observations for inspiration, resulting,
I believe, in the same broad based concepts being the foundation for
ANY virtual world.
> What is the point of this entire thread? I seem to have forgotten (?).
>
Self evident, I would have thought.
Kay-Yut Chen
look at the commercial online gaming industry now. It is certainly
brooming.
MPGnet, INN, GEnie, Compuserve and Novalink all run commercial
multi-player games. Some has multi-player CRPGs with or without
graphics. So commercial MUDs already exist.
Most of them are very successful. For example, the only service
MPGnet was providing for a long time was their graphical MUD.
They do not only survive but expanding too. New business are
also starting in this area (Total Entertainment Network comes
to my mind). MUD2 is also a profitable venture.
Of course most of the users on these networks (especially the
ones who play heavy) are people who have jobs and stable income.
But the fact that they are aware of free MUDs and often have
access to them indicates that some people do find additional
values in commercial MUDs over free ones.
It is really moot to argue whether commercial MUDs will or will
not be successful since they already are.
The more interesting question comes in what happen when players
are throwing REAL money to advance their characters. This
phenomenon has already been happening on the MPGnet.
Since game money essentially equals to game time (since each
player can make a certain amount per hour by hacking in a dungeon)
many people are selling game money for real cash. Many lower
level characters do not have the ability to kill big monster
for their treasure, some high level characters will do it
for them at a price. It used to the transaction is all in
game money. But since there is a "conversion" between game and
real money, you can buy items will real money now. Furthermore,
some players are impatient so they plainly just buy a ready made
character. (since building up a level 18 character may take
a few months to a year). You probably save money that way too.
All of the transaction at this point is strictly between users.
But who says that will remain forever. As long as people want
some stuff, whether it is virtual or real, sooner or later there
will be a market for it.
Some of the people reading this group (poor students) will
probably not get into commercial mudding because of the price.
But after you graduate and get a professional job, spending
a hundred or so dollars every month for a hobby will not seem
so much.
--
=====================================================================
| A Traveler between dimensions | |
+ ------------------------------+ |
| |
| In the Kingdom of Drakkar, I am known as <Narius the Mentalist> |
| To the denizens of Britainnia, my name is <Seldon the Avatar> |
| The Terran Confederation pilots call me <One the Cat Slayer> |
| |
| <<Kay-Yut Chen>> |
| |
=====================================================================
Henry McDaniel
>In article <3m2vti$c...@pip.shsu.edu> ucs...@pip.shsu.edu "Bob Farmer" writes:
>> Boggle, what makes you think there would necessarily be concepts such as
>> money, equipment, levels, etc? What makes you think any good commercial
>> game would be anything like the free internet muds we play today?
>>
>What makes you think they will be any different? If you are modelling
>a virtual world (and lets face it, MUDs have been doing it for years)
>you are probably going to want to include commerce, possessions and
>perhaps some sort of social hierarchy. At the moment these tend to
>transpire into money, equipment and levels, broadly speaking.
You can make a game be a lot of things. The point is to entertain
or provide a virtual verse for people to entertain themselves in
(such as by communicating with other players.)
Money is not necessary. Equipment could be extremely rare.
>There
>may be new ideas as well, but I wouldn't bank on too many that we
>haven't seen in MUDs already. A lot of thought and time has gone into
>the making of all the various MUDs, but commercial or not, the writers
>will draw on their real world observations for inspiration, resulting,
>I believe, in the same broad based concepts being the foundation for
>ANY virtual world.
No. Once I designed a virtual world who's only relationship to the
real everday world was that people could communicate. But characters
were balls of light. The mud space was for all practical purposes
boundless. There were no rooms, merely points in space. The balls
of light could go to any point in space instantly. So to have a meeting
balls could agree on a place ahead of time and go there.
There was another game I designed which is WHOLLY different in operation
than any MUD in existance, yet looks at first glance like a superb
RPG (any setting.) Hee hee. And there was no commerece.
What you're really talking about is the sort of game you'd like to
see. Nothing wrong with that, though.
Dopil Park
>I am mostly interested to see how they intend (if indeed they do) to keep
>the socialising and communication element while circumventing keyboard use
>in their graphical interface. I think even some of the very big fish may
>make some huge mistakes in this area.
Now you are on the ball. Large scale commercial MUD systems (I do not count
Jurassic Park as one), will impose many new challenges beyond the technical
requirements. Balancing a commercial MUD game will be at least an order of
magnitude harder than free MUD games. There will be a lot of new ideas
which merits discussions. For example, how to balance money purchased power
against time and knowledge purchased power? How to manage player abilities
and equipments independent of a particular game? What to do with players
hitting the level ceiling?
I would very much like to discuss issues like those related to commercial
MUD in this newsgroup without folks screaming "Blood Suckers!" around me.
>Well, I hope my comments are not taken as flames but constructive debate.
>However, you can keep on calling me a stupid college kid as much as you
>like! I am feeling younger already!
*chuckle* Dave, I do not count you as a stupid college kid and I did not
call others stupid college kids for that matter :). What I said was that I
was annoyed by stupid flames. I often do say stupid things also but I do
not think I am stupid. I just wish more people would try to see what I mean
rather than what I am saying. I have no desire to suck blood off poor
students or fight against free MUD. I think this is a new area which merits
discussion that is all.
Don
-- You really think I can get paid for playing music? What would my
comrades think? I'll be called a capitalist pig and executed on the spot as
a traitor to the people. --
Dave Austin
mcda...@u.washington.edu "Henry McDaniel" writes:
>
> Money is not necessary. Equipment could be extremely rare.
>
> No. Once I designed a virtual world who's only relationship to the
> real everday world was that people could communicate. But characters
> were balls of light. The mud space was for all practical purposes
> boundless. There were no rooms, merely points in space. The balls
> of light could go to any point in space instantly. So to have a meeting
> balls could agree on a place ahead of time and go there.
>
This is why I was careful to say *broadly* speaking. I am aware that
there are exceptions to the rule. However, I do believe that the
commercial MUDs of the future, in the main, will include those elements
mentioned.
Henry McDaniel
Frank Crowell
doesn't call it a mud though); some form may be available by
the end of the year. There will be no commerical use restriction
on the server. The server/client package is probably intended
for LBE (location based entertainment), but internet use
will be possible.
There is also some LBE in England that sounds very much like
the muds that we are familiar with except it uses some serious
VR equipment.
Of course there are already nongraphical muds that are commerical.
Certainly some of the WebMuds will go commerical, but I don't
know of any that will be "game" muds.
There are other indications that muds and mud-variants
will be very commerical within the next couple of years.
I would be interested in pursuing this discussion, but I
don't think that rec.game.mud.* is ready for this.
One possiblity is to set up a mail list with the expressed
interest of "how to commericalize muds"; this would include
both entainment applications and industrial-grade applications.
The list should be able to accommodate text-based, graphics-based
(possibly Dragonspire style), 3D, Web, and whatever else
is appropriate.
Some of the issues could include:
-copyrights and licensing
-concept development (gamers version of business plan)
-LBE vs nonLBE
-marketing & pricing
-technology
-world design (and game design)
-frank
--
___________________________________________________
Frank Crowell fra...@maddog.com
maddog's studio http://www.maddog/.com
Kev
> RE: 60K a month royalty on commercial MUD.
>
> The MUD is called Jurassic Park and it runs on a number of private networks
> share. He is reportedly making 50 million won a month which translates
> roughly to sixty thousand dollars. I do not know how accurate his figures
> are but his game is running on multiple networks and reportedly full all the
> time. It has drawn so much attention as an addictive game that there is
> even beginning of talk about curbing the spread of MUD like games in Korea.
> I have not looked at Jurassic Park's source so I do not know how much, if
> any, of it is based on public-domain MUD engines.
>
> RE: My predictions on commercialization of MUD
>
> My predictions are based on my experiences in the industry and intuitions
> stemming from them. I am aware that intuitions are called horseshit by
> people who prefer hard numbers and logic over their softer cousins. I was
> not trying to stuff unsubstantiated mumbo jumbo down your throat. Just to
> make you guys see a different point of view and perhaps investigate.
>
> RE: Bandwidth Problem
>
> commercial MUD. I feel that commercialization of MUD will take two paths by
> two different parties:
>
> 1. Private network companies running commercial MUD games based on pure text
> or minimal graphics.
>
> 2. Consumer game companies expanding their IPX/SPX based multiplayer mode to
> include WinSock based multiplayer playing. Syncronizing portion of the
> games like Doom and Descent will eventually have to move to a server for
> games to handle more than a few players at a time. Things will look
> clearer in 1996 when Windows 95 with built-in TCP/IP support and
> improved game graphics suport had a few quarters to make an impact in the
> game industry.
>
> problem as long as they balance things right financially. The game
> companies will eventually run into problems. Improvements to the
> communication code will reduce the bandwidth requirements but eventually
> they will hit the wall (of network admistrators).
>
> I think above predictions are fairly reasonable and in some cases already
> taking place. What is not easy for most people to buy is what will happen
> when the consumer game companies run into the network bandwidth problem. In
> my mind, only one thing will happen. Consumer game companies will move to
> private networks until private networks mesh with public networks (4-8
> years?)
>
> So what you might say. Whether the games are running on private networks or
> off internet, MUD creators and administrators will be valued. How many
> people on the net do you think have real knowledge of building and running
> MUDs? 2000? Lets say 10000 (probably off by a factor). Of that 10000, how
> many would be good enough to create and operate commercial MUDs? I'll say
> 10% or 1000. How many MUDs can 1000 of you create and operate? 100? How
> many MUDs will each network companies operate? A new industry in which you
> have only 999 others in the entire world to compete with is really really
> good in my opinion.
>
>
> I don't know. I was just annoyed by college kids making stupid flames.
> Damn I feel old.
>
I think you're forgetting one major thing in this. Any mud
that uses public sources and charges money is breaking copyright law.
No matter how much it's modified, unless you make it from scratch by
yourself, it's illegal. Check out r.g.m.diku for the arguments going
on about Medevia. They're taking donations, because of all the hard
work they say they've done. This has caused a huge problem, and many
people have stopped playing medevia because of this.
Plus, it wouldn't be fun if I had to worry about deadlines
because I'm getting paid to have the mud up. Sorry, just not my
thing.
-Kevin
Kev
reason TSR decided not to pursue legal action against muds out there
was because muds are non-profit. They do have trademarks on some things
that are used in muds everyday.
-Kevin(again)
email:wi...@nku.edu
wi...@wkuvx1.wku.edu
Michael Sellers
: MPGnet, INN, GEnie, Compuserve and Novalink all run commercial
: graphics. So commercial MUDs already exist.
: Most of them are very successful. For example, the only service
: MPGnet was providing for a long time was their graphical MUD.
: They do not only survive but expanding too. New business are
: also starting in this area (Total Entertainment Network comes
: to my mind). MUD2 is also a profitable venture.
Does anyone have any idea how well these are really doing? And
does anyone have any info, phone numbers or telent addresses for
MPGnet, Total Entertainment, etc/? Good or bad reviews/experiences?
: The more interesting question comes in what happen when players
: are throwing REAL money to advance their characters. This
: phenomenon has already been happening on the MPGnet.
I agree. I don't know what to make of this phenomenon, but it's
going to be interesting to watch.
--
Michael Sellers New World Designs sel...@nworld.com
(503) 538-2745 2913 N. Aspen Way, Newberg, Oregon 97132
User Interface Analysis, Design, Evaluation, and Training
Frank Crowell
[stuff I said about a commerical mud list]
: I second this opinion. As I am using my system for development work, I
: can't host the list server. Any volunteers? Should we ask EIT or one of
: the CommerceNet members for assistance?
: Don
Well I doubt the commerical mud mail list will have nearly the
traffic that inet list has, but its worth a try. I can set up
an unmoderated list with no problem; in the future I can provide
some ftp space and even links into my home page.
The basic charter of the list would be to discuss, create, and
demonstrate Muds as Businesses. So unless someone has an alternate
plan, I will go ahead a setup the list.
-frank
--
___________________________________________________
Frank Crowell fra...@maddog.com
maddog's studio http://www.maddog.com/
Kay-Yut Chen
: : MPGnet, INN, GEnie, Compuserve and Novalink all run commercial
: : multi-player games. Some has multi-player CRPGs with or without
: : graphics. So commercial MUDs already exist.
: : Most of them are very successful. For example, the only service
: : MPGnet was providing for a long time was their graphical MUD.
: : They do not only survive but expanding too. New business are
: : also starting in this area (Total Entertainment Network comes
: : to my mind). MUD2 is also a profitable venture.
: Does anyone have any idea how well these are really doing? And
: does anyone have any info, phone numbers or telent addresses for
: MPGnet, Total Entertainment, etc/? Good or bad reviews/experiences?
Number of MPGnet is 1-800-GET-GAME. TEN is only in beta now. However
their finances are probably commercial secrets. INN and MPGnet are
games-only network. I based my conclusion on the fact that they
are running for a few years already and couple with the fact taht
MPGnet is expanding (more services, more games), I think that
they should have some degree of success (commercially).
: : The more interesting question comes in what happen when players
: : are throwing REAL money to advance their characters. This
: : phenomenon has already been happening on the MPGnet.
: I agree. I don't know what to make of this phenomenon, but it's
: going to be interesting to watch.
Yeah. And we are not talking about small amount. I know certain
items can sell for say $200-$300. A character can sell for up to
$3000. We are talking about real US dollars here.
Ed Snible
: I think you're forgetting one major thing in this. Any mud
: that uses public sources and charges money is breaking copyright law.
: No matter how much it's modified, unless you make it from scratch by
: yourself, it's illegal.
copyrighted and freely distributable, but who says that is the only code
base out there? Second, someone owns the DIKU license, and it is the
original DIKU creators and I have heard a persistant rumor that they have
a for-pay DIKU running in Europe. Finally, you can *today* get
digital-cash packages and run your MUD in a country that doesn't isn't in
the UN, say Libya. _Quake_ was mentioned earlier in this thread, I have
heard that id (People that make Doom) are going to be giving away their
server, though you may have to pay for their zones and client software.
In terms of for-pay MUDding, DIKU isn't where it is at. It's
text-based. Some of you old-timers might remember free public sources
for text-based adventure games like "Collosal Cave" or "Scott Adams". We
used to shell out big-money for those games, today no one would buy a
single-user adventure game that didn't come on at least *2* CD-ROMs. I'm
sure that in 5 years, r.g.m.d will be about as popular as
rec.games.int-fiction is today, and you will still be able to play for
free, but if you want to play something graphical that requires a team of
graphics artists and camera-men and CAD designers to create, then you
will have to pay.
Dennis Miller (the comedian) likes to say that if you can come up with a
Virtual Reality system where 'Joe Sixpack' can f*** Claudia Schiffer for
$19.95, no one will even *remember* crack. I'm sure the same will be
true of us.
I think that the work that some of us are doing in terms of smarter
mobiles, interesting puzzles, and new methods of human-human interaction
will be a part of these games. I'm sure that the gridlike zones we
create and 'tintin' will be blurry memories.
Slash
e...@indirect.com
http://www.indirect.com/user/ecs/mzf.htm for DIKU building info and links
to Quake and Dragonspires (graphical MUD info) pages.
Frank Crowell
: I think you're forgetting one major thing in this. Any mud
: that uses public sources and charges money is breaking copyright law.
: No matter how much it's modified, unless you make it from scratch by
: yourself, it's illegal. Check out r.g.m.diku for the arguments going
: on about Medevia. They're taking donations, because of all the hard
: work they say they've done. This has caused a huge problem, and many
: people have stopped playing medevia because of this.
You statement is only partial true. It definitely applies to
LP/Diku/Aber muds; their license is too restrictive. However,
in one of these mud newsgroups I just posted a list of servers
and databases where it would be acceptable to charge money.
Then there is DGD which includes a commerical license for the server;
the database would have to be written from scratch.
One of the first task of anyone who wants to commericalize a mud is
to do a complete copyright and license study, including the database,
objects, monsters, and settings. I would start off with some base
such as LambdaMOO, Cool, or Cold. Then I would build a database
core that that was under the same license as the server.
I like idsoftware's philosophy about not putting commerical restrictions
on their servers; in fact they would like hundreds, many thousands
of Quake centers set up all over the world.
: Plus, it wouldn't be fun if I had to worry about deadlines
: because I'm getting paid to have the mud up. Sorry, just not my
: thing.
: -Kevin
Well, a customer is a customer. I don't think the fact that they
play for free or pay should really make a difference. All muds
are in the business of providing high value entertainment.
The big difference is that the more successful pay muds will be
able to provide more in game design, programming, artwork, and
so on.
Dopil Park
> I think you're forgetting one major thing in this. Any mud
>that uses public sources and charges money is breaking copyright law.
>No matter how much it's modified, unless you make it from scratch by
>yourself, it's illegal. Check out r.g.m.diku for the arguments going
>on about Medevia. They're taking donations, because of all the hard
>work they say they've done. This has caused a huge problem, and many
>people have stopped playing medevia because of this.
No, I did not forget about the public sources. Morally, legally, and
technically, use of public sources for commercial MUD is simply a bad
decision. I do not know how Jurassic Park was implemented but it is up the
authors of public mud systems to investigate. I am interested in seeing
commercial quality MUD systems being developed, not just hacked up public
mud systems. It would be like building a house on sand.
Don
Dopil Park
>The more interesting question comes in what happen when players
>are throwing REAL money to advance their characters. This
>phenomenon has already been happening on the MPGnet.
Thanks for the info. I guess I'll have to pay MPGnet a visit. I hope I
don't get audited next year because I am already having a hard enough time
explaining how I spend $500 a year on regular games to do 'research' :).
To others: I am sorry if I sounded sensationalistic or egotistic. I was
part of the Macintosh 'movement' which made be somewhat 'evangelistic' about
things I am interested in. I guess my enthusiasm also needs a bit of
tuning for this audience.
Don
Dopil Park
>I would be interested in pursuing this discussion, but I
>don't think that rec.game.mud.* is ready for this.
>One possiblity is to set up a mail list with the expressed
>interest of "how to commericalize muds"; this would include
>both entainment applications and industrial-grade applications.
>The list should be able to accommodate text-based, graphics-based
>(possibly Dragonspire style), 3D, Web, and whatever else
>is appropriate.
I second this opinion. As I am using my system for development work, I
Scott Anderson
Kev <wi...@wkuvx1.wku.edu> wrote:
> I think you're forgetting one major thing in this. Any mud
>that uses public sources and charges money is breaking copyright law.
>No matter how much it's modified, unless you make it from scratch by
>yourself, it's illegal. Check out r.g.m.diku for the arguments going
>on about Medevia. They're taking donations, because of all the hard
>work they say they've done. This has caused a huge problem, and many
>people have stopped playing medevia because of this.
Not if you're using DGD. You have to make a licensing arrangement with
Dworkin, but that's it.
-scott
Frank Crowell
up a lot of resources this week, but I am trying to get
the mail list up.
Btw, how about getting some muds into Internet World '96?
I went to Internet World '95 this afternoon and saw some
public access systems set up. Wouldn't it be fun to
redirect a few to some mud sites? I also think there
is going to be an Internet World '95 Fall edition
in the eastern US.