Commercialization of MUD - part 2
Henry McDaniel
Heh heh. You guys just keep jabbing that philosophical B.S., while
some of us make money.
Some of us don't have free time (to build MU*s for free.) Some of us
have to -earn- a living. And some of us have put in our dues.. years
worth as implementors and administrators of free games.
I can understand if you feel hostile to someone completely clueless about
MU*s trying to get into it as a business. But really.
-McDaniel
Scott G Cowell
1996 will be the year of Internet Gaming because single-player PC games will
by then begin to offer Multiplay Gaming options via Internet. Initial wave
will use the server sites only for synchronizing with little or no
persistance. Next wave, probably spring 1997, will bring games which
'require' Internet connection and use more elaborate servers with
persistance. Up to this point, server use will be free. Game publishers
will make money selling software 'game-decks' with preloaded 'game-site'
information on CD. Servers will be freely distributed.
So far so good. 1998 will bring Internet Games at little or no cost and
little or no connection time charges. What it will bring is 'virtual'
commodities. You can play all you want for free but if you want to buy a
magical sword, you will have to pay real money for it. Wanna buy a castle?
Fine, pay up. How about a gang of tough mobs as bodyguards? Want revenge?
Pay $5 and we will kill the jerk who stabbed you in the back.
You don't think you will pay for such service? Of course not. You are not
rich and beside you can get those things by killing tough mobs. But don't
think well to do folks who can't afford to spend 10 hours day in the game
wouldn't want to.
There is another factor involved. Suppose you could convert MUD money into
'real' money? How would you like to pay your way through school by robbing
rich folks on the MUD? Of course, I will sit in the middle and take my
profit :). You can sell directly to others but then 'I' control the supply
don't I? I can make ten thousand magical swords in a second or destroy them
if there are too many. Maybe I'll just let them circulate but have the shop
owners not buy them cuz there aren't enough funds :).
You think I am dreaming. Think again while I laugh my way to the bank. You
think commercial MUD is stupid and disgusting? Maybe you should have a
different opinion before applying for that MUD administrator position.
Uh huh. MUD money to real money? Yes you're dreaming. Think you've subscribed
to the popular-culture view of cyberspace. Yes, there is a good chance that
MUDs and other virtual-environment gaming systems based off the same concept
stand a chance to be big profit makers for those with initiative and
creativity. Is this wrong? In the spirit of the 'old' internet, I suppose
so. In the spirit of what the internet will be in the future, no. Lets
face it - commercialization of the internet is unavoidable. As for Joe
Shmoe MUD admin being able to reap in profits - not likely. People don't
want to pay to play (a) a fly-by-night game that looks like 100 others out
there (b) a game with poorly designed worlds and mechanics (c) a game that
just looks sloppy. As half the muds out there violate all 3 of these, and
the other half usually violate at least one, there really isn't much profit
potential in your standard MUD. There are exceptions, however. Thinking
you can just download a DIKU/LP/etc. server, compile, run, and reap profits
is naive. IMO, it would take a team of dedicated ppl _working_ on the MUD
full time to really make such a concept work. Creating unique game mechanics,
creating a unique world/history, writing the server, admin'ing full-time,
etc etc etc.. not an undertaking to be taken lightly.
-sc
Brian Moore
: Previous message was a plea of sort to those who populate this newgroup.
: This message is to briefly explain how I see MUD as the next big Internet
: opportunity (after the Web).
: 1996 will be the year of Internet Gaming because single-player PC games will
: by then begin to offer Multiplay Gaming options via Internet. Initial wave
: will use the server sites only for synchronizing with little or no
: persistance. Next wave, probably spring 1997, will bring games which
: 'require' Internet connection and use more elaborate servers with
: persistance. Up to this point, server use will be free. Game publishers
: will make money selling software 'game-decks' with preloaded 'game-site'
: information on CD. Servers will be freely distributed.
: So far so good. 1998 will bring Internet Games at little or no cost and
: little or no connection time charges. What it will bring is 'virtual'
: commodities. You can play all you want for free but if you want to buy a
: magical sword, you will have to pay real money for it. Wanna buy a castle?
: Fine, pay up. How about a gang of tough mobs as bodyguards? Want revenge?
: Pay $5 and we will kill the jerk who stabbed you in the back.
A MUD where your abilities are dictated by how much cash you throw at it?
Uh-huh. Rich Twinks will be the only ones who would pay for that, and
even then, they'd quickly get bored.
: You don't think you will pay for such service? Of course not. You are not
: rich and beside you can get those things by killing tough mobs. But don't
: think well to do folks who can't afford to spend 10 hours day in the game
: wouldn't want to.
And don't think they'd find it dull after wasting the first $100.
: There is another factor involved. Suppose you could convert MUD money into
: 'real' money? How would you like to pay your way through school by robbing
: rich folks on the MUD? Of course, I will sit in the middle and take my
: profit :). You can sell directly to others but then 'I' control the supply
: don't I? I can make ten thousand magical swords in a second or destroy them
: if there are too many. Maybe I'll just let them circulate but have the shop
: owners not buy them cuz there aren't enough funds :).
Uh-huh: fuck with an artificial economy and I'm sure those you are trying
to make dependent on it would take a hike.
: You think I am dreaming. Think again while I laugh my way to the bank. You
: think commercial MUD is stupid and disgusting? Maybe you should have a
: different opinion before applying for that MUD administrator position.
Hallucinating != dreaming.
Learn a bit about game design: making things based more on money than
skill is a surefire way to make a game fail.
Kay-Yut Chen
: little or no connection time charges. What it will bring is 'virtual'
: commodities. You can play all you want for free but if you want to buy a
: magical sword, you will have to pay real money for it. Wanna buy a castle?
: Fine, pay up. How about a gang of tough mobs as bodyguards? Want revenge?
: Pay $5 and we will kill the jerk who stabbed you in the back.
: You don't think you will pay for such service? Of course not. You are not
: rich and beside you can get those things by killing tough mobs. But don't
: think well to do folks who can't afford to spend 10 hours day in the game
: wouldn't want to.
: There is another factor involved. Suppose you could convert MUD money into
: 'real' money? How would you like to pay your way through school by robbing
: rich folks on the MUD? Of course, I will sit in the middle and take my
: profit :). You can sell directly to others but then 'I' control the supply
: don't I? I can make ten thousand magical swords in a second or destroy them
: if there are too many. Maybe I'll just let them circulate but have the shop
: owners not buy them cuz there aren't enough funds :).
: You think I am dreaming. Think again while I laugh my way to the bank. You
: think commercial MUD is stupid and disgusting? Maybe you should have a
: different opinion before applying for that MUD administrator position.
You are NOT dreaming. On Kingdom of Drakkar running on the MPGnet,
players ARE trading game stuff in real money. In fact, you can buy
game money with real money.
--
=====================================================================
| A Traveler between dimensions | |
+ ------------------------------+ |
| |
| In the Kingdom of Drakkar, I am known as <Narius the Mentalist> |
| To the denizens of Britainnia, my name is <Seldon the Avatar> |
| The Terran Confederation pilots call me <One the Cat Slayer> |
| |
| <<Kay-Yut Chen>> |
| |
=====================================================================
Wheel of Fish!
: Some of us don't have free time (to build MU*s for free.) Some of us
: have to -earn- a living. And some of us have put in our dues.. years
: worth as implementors and administrators of free games.
and some of us continue to do so because we enjoy it not because we think
we can make a profit. and the majority of mudders I would expect sure as
hell wouldn't toss you a quarter a day let alone some $1/hour for a mud
when there are so many excellent *free* muds out there waiting to be
discovered and played. I won't even kick out $5/month for BBSs when
there are 40 more free ones to replace the idiot that thinks he can make
money off of his/hers.
: I can understand if you feel hostile to someone completely clueless about
: MU*s trying to get into it as a business. But really.
but really what? when you're 'raking in the bucks' come talk to us, until
then.. I'll be here laughing my ass off at you and every other putz that
tries to make a living writing a mud.
Zool
--
'''
(o o)
+---------oOOO--(_)------------------+
| If this were an actual tagline |
| It would be funny. |
| pir...@shell1.best.com |
+----------------------oOOO----------+
|__|__|
|| ||
ooO Ooo
Fredrick J Strelzoff
: Previous message was a plea of sort to those who populate this newgroup.
: This message is to briefly explain how I see MUD as the next big Internet
: opportunity (after the Web).
: 1996 will be the year of Internet Gaming because single-player PC games will
: by then begin to offer Multiplay Gaming options via Internet. Initial wave
: will use the server sites only for synchronizing with little or no
: persistance. Next wave, probably spring 1997, will bring games which
: 'require' Internet connection and use more elaborate servers with
: persistance. Up to this point, server use will be free. Game publishers
: will make money selling software 'game-decks' with preloaded 'game-site'
: information on CD. Servers will be freely distributed.
: So far so good. 1998 will bring Internet Games at little or no cost and
: little or no connection time charges. What it will bring is 'virtual'
: commodities. You can play all you want for free but if you want to buy a
: magical sword, you will have to pay real money for it. Wanna buy a castle?
: Fine, pay up. How about a gang of tough mobs as bodyguards? Want revenge?
: Pay $5 and we will kill the jerk who stabbed you in the back.
Hmm I sorta wish muds remain free. IM a poor college student.
: You don't think you will pay for such service? Of course not. You are not
: rich and beside you can get those things by killing tough mobs. But don't
: think well to do folks who can't afford to spend 10 hours day in the game
: wouldn't want to.
: There is another factor involved. Suppose you could convert MUD money into
: 'real' money? How would you like to pay your way through school by robbing
: rich folks on the MUD? Of course, I will sit in the middle and take my
: profit :). You can sell directly to others but then 'I' control the supply
: don't I? I can make ten thousand magical swords in a second or destroy them
: if there are too many. Maybe I'll just let them circulate but have the shop
: owners not buy them cuz there aren't enough funds :).
: You think I am dreaming. Think again while I laugh my way to the bank. You
: think commercial MUD is stupid and disgusting? Maybe you should have a
: different opinion before applying for that MUD administrator position.
: Don Park
:
Well .. Paying for muds is a good idea if some blood sucking jurk gets a
team of super coders together and codes up something 10 times better than
dworkin's driver. I can see graphical clients being sold in stores like
electronic boutique to be used over internet also though. In fact I see
that luckily here at the right place at the right time because nobody
really knows how to market the internet. I think that soon this will all
cost us shitloads of fucking money. *sigh* Lets try and prevent it.
How can we prevent it?
-Fred Strelzoff
,--------------------------------------------------------,
| . Fred Strelzoff . |
| . University of Massachusetts @ Amherst . |
| . Department of Computer Engieering . |
| . da...@titan.ucs.umass.edu . |
-______________________________________________________-
Dopil Park
>and some of us continue to do so because we enjoy it not because we think
>we can make a profit. and the majority of mudders I would expect sure as
>hell wouldn't toss you a quarter a day let alone some $1/hour for a mud
>when there are so many excellent *free* muds out there waiting to be
>discovered and played. I won't even kick out $5/month for BBSs when
>there are 40 more free ones to replace the idiot that thinks he can make
>money off of his/hers.
If never entered my mind that you or anyone populating this newgroup would
be form the backbone of commercial MUD customer base. The problem is that
you and others like you have already got it for free and thus expects it for
free. The reason commercial MUD seems to be appearing and operating
profitably in Internet-poor countries like Korea and Japan is because they
never got it for free.
>but really what? when you're 'raking in the bucks' come talk to us, until
>then.. I'll be here laughing my ass off at you and every other putz that
>tries to make a living writing a mud.
If I wanted to simply make a living, I would get a job as a bank teller and
move to a trailer park.
Why do you think I am even posting these message? So I can somehow make
money off Internet using public-domain MUD code while bring the net traffic
down to 300 baud? What a laugh.
Don
Dave Austin
da...@titan.oit.umass.edu "Fredrick J Strelzoff" writes:
> Hmm I sorta wish muds remain free. IM a poor college student.
>
I think that there are always going to be free MUDs out there, just as
there are always going to be poor college students out there. I also
think that the majority of new MUDs that come along from now on
(new as in new code base) will be commercial, but that many of them may
well launch with free access in their initial stages, getting them
play-tested for free if you want a cynical view.
Dave Austin
--
+ - Legends Never Die - Avalon.co.uk (193.132.124.2) - +
Brandon Gillespie
> There is another factor involved. Suppose you could convert MUD money into
> 'real' money? How would you like to pay your way through school by robbing
> rich folks on the MUD? Of course, I will sit in the middle and take my
> profit :). You can sell directly to others but then 'I' control the supply
> don't I? I can make ten thousand magical swords in a second or destroy them
> if there are too many. Maybe I'll just let them circulate but have the shop
> owners not buy them cuz there aren't enough funds :).
>
> You think I am dreaming. Think again while I laugh my way to the bank. You
> think commercial MUD is stupid and disgusting? Maybe you should have a
> different opinion before applying for that MUD administrator position.
My my my, somebody sure is having a power trip. Can we sucessfully document
this as "twink.admin who lives to lord over his players" in the creation?
--
/\ Brandon Gillespie (http://www.declab.usu.edu:8080/~brandon/) /\
|| "They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape ||
\/ those who dream only by night." - Edgar Allan Poe \/
Henry McDaniel
>Henry McDaniel (mcda...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>: Some of us don't have free time (to build MU*s for free.) Some of us
>: have to -earn- a living. And some of us have put in our dues.. years
>: worth as implementors and administrators of free games.
>and some of us continue to do so because we enjoy it not because we think
>we can make a profit. and the majority of mudders I would expect sure as
>hell wouldn't toss you a quarter a day let alone some $1/hour for a mud
>when there are so many excellent *free* muds out there waiting to be
>discovered and played. I won't even kick out $5/month for BBSs when
>there are 40 more free ones to replace the idiot that thinks he can make
>money off of his/hers.
>: I can understand if you feel hostile to someone completely clueless about
>: MU*s trying to get into it as a business. But really.
>but really what? when you're 'raking in the bucks' come talk to us, until
>then.. I'll be here laughing my ass off at you and every other putz that
>tries to make a living writing a mud.
Hmm. I have no doubt in my ability to create entertaining and highly
desirable MU* atomospheres. The objective is not to "rake in bucks"
but to cover expenses (do you think its free to get a site all to
one project with a large fraction of a T1?)
At some point the objective for me may become to "rake in bucks,"
but that doesn't (in my mind) involve overcharging -- rather it
involves offering a wider menu of services to a wider audience.
Prices stay low for the individual, but more people are paying and
playing.
Putz? Hee hee. Hey if you say so. Um. Just who are you, anyhow?
-McDaniel
Brandon Gillespie
> Why do you think I am even posting these message? So I can somehow make
> money off Internet using public-domain MUD code while bring the net traffic
> down to 300 baud? What a laugh.
Its amazing how many clueless sensasionalistic freaks this group attracts
(gotta love people not only measure internet bandwidth in baud (I think they
need to get off their modem and find a real connection), but who also think
they can clog the internet traffic with a bunch of telnet sessions).
BTW, as far as graphical muds/VES, I'd say your timeline is a little off. At
this very moment VRML (Virtual Reality Modelling Language) is being integrated
into several M**'s. I myself have been working on the design of one from
the base level for the past few months (rather than building ontop of a worn
out design like MOO), using ColdMUD.
---