I have read (in more than one place I think) that you can / should "wash"
your brushes after use. As in with soap. My question is (i) Does anyone here
wash there brushes with soap (and water I assume) after a painting session,
if so do you wash all your brushes? Only the 'sable' / hair brushes and / or
synthetic brushes too. And (ii) What kind of soap do you use? 'Normal' hand
washing soap (cake or liquid?), dishwashing detergent, laundry soap?
I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after about a
month of 'resonable' usage, Oh and I do know about not 'dunking' the brush
or letting paint get into the 'base' of the brush, although I will admit
that I still loose far too many brushes that way.
On a related note, how do you avoid letting inks/washes travel up the
bristles and accumulateing at the brush 'base', from my experiance this has
(over time) much the same effect as 'dunking' the brushes ie. spalyed and
usesless bristles.
Thanks for your advice
-TSG-
Nope - I typically only 'wash' my brushes with soap after I've worked
with some particularly dark color in large quantities (like
hand-priming black) or I've been using a lot of metallics. And then I
just wander into the bathroom and gather-up some soap off the bar
sitting along the sink and work it into the bristles. Get a good
lather, repeat if necessary and then just rinse it out under the tap
for a bit and it's good to go.
>
> I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after
about a
> month of 'resonable' usage, Oh and I do know about not 'dunking' the
brush
> or letting paint get into the 'base' of the brush, although I will
admit
> that I still loose far too many brushes that way.
This is something I do not get. I run a painting service - I paint
almost everyday for hours each day. And my brushes will last for at
least a year - often longer - before having to be replaced. I've got
some 2s that are seven years old and I use them almost every day.
What are people doing that are wearing out brushes in a months time?
This just baffles me entirely.
>
> On a related note, how do you avoid letting inks/washes travel up
the
> bristles and accumulateing at the brush 'base', from my experiance
this has
> (over time) much the same effect as 'dunking' the brushes ie.
spalyed and
> usesless bristles.
Actually - the soverign remedy for acrylic paint is rubbing
(isopropyl) alchohol. I keep a small, sealed glass jar on my painting
table. And when my brushes get clogged, I let them soak in the
alchohol bath for awhile. The dried paint just kind of dissolves away
and you can get your brushes back to their normal shape again.
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> -TSG-
>
>
You are welcome. I have other tips for the care and feeding of
brushes on my website.
MJB
--
Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://members.blueskyweb.net/mrt...@blueskyweb.net/
Look at this site. There is a lot of usefull advices for someone who paint.
http://www.paintingclinic.com/
The best site for painting miniatures.
P'yZ
Make sure to lay them down to dry. If you store them bristles up after
washing, water will travel into the "binding" of the brush, and dissolve the
glue, causing the brush to shed. Can't say I practise this with my paint
brushes - they get worn out for other reasons - but with makeup brushes, it's
almost religious ;)
/Anne
I wash them with normal liquid soap in the bathroom (yes where the bath is,
not the toilet). I put a smidgen of dishwashing liquid in my rinsing water.
I get a smidgen by running my finger over the stuff that has gone gungy by
the hole and then letting the water filling the cut run over my finger. I
occasionly soak them in "Handy Andy".
> I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after about
a
> month of 'resonable' usage, Oh and I do know about not 'dunking' the brush
> or letting paint get into the 'base' of the brush, although I will admit
> that I still loose far too many brushes that way.
>
> On a related note, how do you avoid letting inks/washes travel up the
> bristles and accumulateing at the brush 'base', from my experiance this
has
> (over time) much the same effect as 'dunking' the brushes ie. spalyed and
> usesless bristles.
I use cheap or plastic brushes for this.
> You are welcome. I have other tips for the care and feeding of
> brushes on my website.
Hey you know what happens to people who shamelessly plug their websites.
We're going to have to institute [SWP] as a tag soon.
If you do it, you will see the traces of paint coming out, compared with
what can be done with just plain water. If this not removed the paint will
harden on the brushes and ruin them. My brushes last 2 - 3 years each and I
would expect to paint 1,000 - 2,000 figures a year.
--
Justin Taylor
Veni Vidi Vici
Quality Transfers
http://www.3vwargames.co.uk
Yes, it is good practice that will remove paint you ordinarily would not get
out and should be done for all brushes. I use the liquid hand soap in the
bathroom.
>On a related note, how do you avoid letting inks/washes travel up the
>bristles and accumulateing at the brush 'base'
It is called capillary action (check you HS physics notes). A surfactant
(soap) in the wash will prevent this, or making sure the brush is wet with
clean water before dipping in the wash will help. I also prefer to use long
bristle brushes for this that also help avoid the problem.
Death before dishonor,
Nothing before coffee
Shameless website Plug: Military Life on Saipan, 1944-1945
http://members.aol.com/RLobinske/Saipan.html
This is a cookie-free website
Oh and that's not a plug this \|/ is a plug!
--
Jim M
j...@hnjcomics.com
#4 of the sacred 115
Wearer of Green Hat #23
"I know what you're thinking. Did I fire six shots, or only five. Well,
being as this is a forty-four magnum pistol, and the most powerful handgun
in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you just got to ask
yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well do ya punk?"
WARNING~~~~~~~~~~WARNING~~~~~~~~~~WARNING
EVERYTHING YOU READ BELOW IS A SHAMELESS ATTEMPT TO
TRY AND GET YOU TO VISIT MY WEB-SITE! IF YOU ARE OFFENDED
BY SUCH BLATANT ADVERTISING PLEASE DO NOT READ FURTHER!
To go to my web site click on this link --------> http://www.hnjcomics.com
**new stuff added on 11-03-2001**
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~END WARNING~~~~~~~~~~
Hey what are you reading this for, the ad is up there! /|\
Yes - absolutely. If not, you already know what happens if they
get built up with dried pigment in the bristles.
> Only the 'sable' / hair brushes and / or
> synthetic brushes too.
Everything gets washed - but it's not only that you wash them, but
how and what you wash them with is extremely important to the life of the
brush too. See the answer below...
> And (ii) What kind of soap do you use? 'Normal' hand
> washing soap (cake or liquid?), dishwashing detergent, laundry soap?
Just so you know, I've got a Bachelors of Fine Arts degree and I
graduated with a dual major in Drawing and Painting. If you've never
bought professional grade Artist's water color and oil painting brushes -
especially the larger ones, then you probably aren't aware that they can
cost as much as $35 - $75 plus for just a single one of the larger
brushes. Needless to say, this alone induces most artists to very
quickly learn how to preserve their brushes. It used to be that the best
brushes were all natural hair - whether they were the bristle brushes for
oil painting, or the natural sables for oil, and water color, etc. These
days, fortunately, the synthetic brushes are much better (though not
always the equal of natural hair brushes) in paint application and will
stand up to a lot of abuse while costing less than the sables, etc.
That being said, you should still know a bit about caring for
natural and/or synthetic brushes. Brushes take on paint through
capillary action and draw pigment up into the bristles, where it's
applied to your painting surface through light contact. Obviously
enough, you don't want to let paint dry in the bristles as not only will
this cause them to splay out over time, it will also reduce the capillary
action, and make your brush leave streaks and uneven paint application on
the surface you're painting. So, it is vitally important to clean your
brush as best you can to keep it in good working order as long as
possible. But, what most people don't take into account is that most
brushes (pretty much all the natural hair brushes and some synthetics)
have oils in the bristles. You have naturally occurring oils in your
hair and skin that work to keep them healthy and preserve them. So do
good paint brushes - especially natural sable. If you use harsh cleaners
like gritty hand soaps or laundry detergents, you will strip all the oils
out of the bristles - which also can destroy the brush's capillary action
and ability to apply paint smoothly to your painting surface. Arrgh!
So, if you want to preserve your brushes in good working order for as
long as possible, here's what I'd recommend. First choice would be to
visit an Artist's supply store and find some professional brush cleaner.
Or find one on the net that will ship to you and order some. (I'm in the
U.S. and I use a product called "The Masters Brush Cleaner and Preserver"
by B.& J. It's meant for cleaning oil, acrylic, water color, and stains
from brushes.) These products are designed to clean brushes WITHOUT
stripping the natural oils from them. The other beauty of a good artist's
brush cleaner is that most are designed so that you can leave a little
bit of the soap in the brush and then shape the bristles and allow the
brush to dry - this also helps to prolong the useful life span of the
brush. 2nd choice would be a mild hand soap without degreaser in it. 3rd
(and not highly recommended) choice would be a mild bar form of hand
soap. I would NOT recommend any product like dish detergent or laundry
soap - which tend to have degreasers in them - for cleaning brushes,
especially natural hair brushes. Synthetics will take more of this type
of abuse, but even they stop working well eventually when treated with
harsh cleaners like this.
It should go without saying that once you've cleaned the brush
you'll want to lay the brush on a flat surface or stand the brush upright
with the bristles up to allow it to dry. I do see people who leave their
brushes tip down in their water buckets while painting or cleaning
(Grrr!) and then wonder why they end up with splayed bristles - Duh!
>
> I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after about a
> month of 'resonable' usage, Oh and I do know about not 'dunking' the brush
> or letting paint get into the 'base' of the brush, although I will admit
> that I still loose far too many brushes that way.
The base of the brush is called the "ferrule" - the term derives
it's origins from the old metal bracelets the Celts liked to wear around
their forearms. It generally means "a ring or cap (usually) of metal put
around a slender shaft (such as a hand tool) to strengthen it or prevent
slipping.."
>
> On a related note, how do you avoid letting inks/washes travel up the
> bristles and accumulateing at the brush 'base', from my experiance this has
> (over time) much the same effect as 'dunking' the brushes ie. spalyed and
> usesless bristles.
Mad Mad Propz to Richard Lobinske who wrote the following...
"It is called capillary action (check you HS physics notes). A
surfactant (soap) in the wash will prevent this, or making sure the brush
is wet with clean water before dipping in the wash will help. I also
prefer to use long bristle brushes for this that also help avoid the
problem."
Now you know why I recommended the artist's brush clear -where the
soap can be left in the bristles in small amounts without harming the
brush. If you don't have/can't get a good brush cleaner, then by all
means use the 'wet brush in clean water first' method.
>
> Thanks for your advice
>
> -TSG-
>
Glad to help! And nothing teaches one to properly care for your
brushes faster than seeing a College Instructor ripping another student a
new orifice... "What the HELL are you doing??? That's a $50 brush you're
destroying! I ought to beat you with a 2x4 full of rusty nails!"
Meanwhile every other student in the vicinity is cringing in fear. Ahhh,
the joy of college.
--
Myrmidon - [Use tags or DIE!] RGMW Tag Nazi Extraordinaire
(Flamer of most things untagged - Grrr!!!)
Wearer of Green Hat #9. Coj - official keeper of the shrunken
troll heads collection.
What exactly are you trying to create here - Codex: Fromage??
- Jimi
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"To paint your miniatures, to see them driven before you on the table,
and to hear the lamentation of the cheese-mongers!"
- Del Webb
Touter of the RGMW FAQ - Learn to read or prepare to bleed!
RGMW FAQ: http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
www.slownewsday.net Watch the fall from greatness in full
technicolour
Stop it! Stop it now you shameless plug pig!
-Northy
"I R Lum fanboi!"
IGNORE THE SETZER OR FACE THE WRATH OF THE SKULLCRUSHER!
Let me get this straight -
Someone asks a question. I answer it. Because I have more
information on a website about the same subject I point that out
rather than repeat all the information in a usenet posting.
And you complain about it?
I assume you're just jerking my chain because this is the RGMW and not
RGMH? And that's NOP for the 'hammered NG?
Hehe. No, I think he's yanking your chain because someone (stupid newb
weenie) was giving Jim M crap about the fact that he's got his sites in
his sig. Things have gone from there. It's gotten to the point of a
running joke by now. Though it's always possible Rob missed the joke..
or maybe not. At any rate, I wouldn't worry much about it - besides,
it's just Rob Singers. He probably lives in a mud and waddle hut in
Swindon...
Myrmidon (who's now diving into his fall-out shelter) :)
NAH, it's kind of a running joke now. I got flamed for "Shameless Self
Promotion" by some noob because I happened to post a lot, and often
mentioned my store or web-site. This is only the second week, so there are
still a lot of references to it. That is also why I made the change to that
massive sig file warning. You just got sucked into the whirlwind...
--
Jim M
j...@hnjcomics.com
#4 of the sacred 115
Wearer of Green Hat #23
"What the hell are you playing here..."
"It's called a Strategy game, each of these little pieces of cardboard
represents a unit..."
"Hell, a good sneeze can wipe out half your army..." ---Conversation
between me and my dad circa 1966...
Nope. I usually clean with water, occasionally with lacquer thinner.
>if so do you wash all your brushes?
Sometimes.
>Only the 'sable' / hair brushes and / or synthetic brushes too.
All of my brushes are finest red sable. The others don't paint as well.
>And (ii) What kind of soap do you use? 'Normal' hand
>washing soap (cake or liquid?), dishwashing detergent, laundry soap?
N/App.
>I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after about a
>month of 'resonable' usage, Oh and I do know about not 'dunking' the
>brush or letting paint get into the 'base' of the brush, although I will admit
>that I still loose far too many brushes that way.
Part of this is painting technique. *Never* "push" with a brush. Always
"pull" backwards, or "slide" sideways. "Pushing" is what destroys brushes.
If you ever *need* to "push", make and use a "stippling" brush: cut down an
old brush so that it's only somewhat longer than it is wide.
>On a related note, how do you avoid letting inks/washes travel up the
>bristles and accumulateing at the brush 'base',
Continuously clean (and re-point) your brush. That's what water and paper
towel is for. I clean my brush every other time I dip it into paint.
That and the occasional series of rounds letting lacquer thinner soak into the
bristles to *really* clean the brushes.
>from my experiance this has (over time) much the same effect as
>'dunking' the brushes ie. spalyed and usesless bristles.
Don't ever "dunk" a brush. You'll ruin it.
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
>> I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after
>>about a month of 'resonable' usage,
>
>This is something I do not get. I run a painting service - I paint
>almost everyday for hours each day. And my brushes will last for at
>least a year - often longer - before having to be replaced. I've got
>some 2s that are seven years old and I use them almost every day.
>
>What are people doing that are wearing out brushes in a months time?
>This just baffles me entirely.
Agree. My current set of brushes have lasted *years* now. Now granted that I
don't paint as intensely as you do, but still, a decent brush should be good
for hundreds of minis.
I wonder if perhaps it's the brushes he's using? The GW brushes are crap, and
I refuse to use them except for occasional basecoating. My *good* artists
brushes have held up *much* better.
>>I ask after seeing my millionth 'favorite brush' disitergrate after about a
>>month of 'resonable' usage, Oh and I do know about not 'dunking' the brush
>>or letting paint get into the 'base' of the brush, although I will admit
>>that I still loose far too many brushes that way.
>
>Make sure to lay them down to dry. If you store them bristles up after
>washing, water will travel into the "binding" of the brush, and dissolve the
>glue, causing the brush to shed. Can't say I practise this with my paint
>brushes - they get worn out for other reasons - but with makeup brushes,
>it's almost religious ;)
FWIW, I store all of my brushes upright. However, I'm religious about drying
my brushes on blotter paper/paper towel before storing them, so this hasn't
been a problem for me.
Also, I'm pretty sure that normal paint brushes do not use water-based glue.
:)
Agreed - I paint epic / 6mm scale, 15mm, 25mm and 28 mm figures with
the same set of brushes. And they last for months and months.
>
> I wonder if perhaps it's the brushes he's using? The GW brushes are
crap, and
> I refuse to use them except for occasional basecoating. My *good*
artists
> brushes have held up *much* better.
Went over to my painting table - of the eight brushes laying on the
table top for handy use, six were Lowell Cornell black handled acrylic
brushes. All of them are so used that the gold paint has been worn
off the black-painted handles - but they still keep their point and
they still provide good service. And are no where near ready to be
replaced.
They aren't particularly cheap - maybe 4 or 5 dollars each (certainly
not as expensive as sable-haired brushes!). But I wait until
Michael's arts & crafts has their semi-regular artist paint sale and
buy-up all I can affoard at 20 or 30% off. Craft's stores work for
me!
Cheers,
>/Anne
--
Moramarth
Oh god. It's nothing kinky - just regular use, heavy drybrushing, clumsy
boyfriend who paints in a splattery manner, etc etc.
/Anne
>
>Also, I'm pretty sure that normal paint brushes do not use water-based glue.
That's true. Still, the water gets into the wood - unless you use plastic
brushes - causing it to expand and deteriorate. No good. :) Anyway. I store my
brushes upright also, but I usually let them dry before.
/Anne
Jim M was abused by some idiot for "shamelessly promoting" when he answered
someone else's question, much as you did. Now he has a shameless promotion
in his .sig. I was just joining in the fun, but I kinda like [SWP].
--
Robert Singers
Homo Coffea
Evil Genius (2nd Class)
http://www.freewebz.com/rgmw
I store mine sideways, but that is for medical reasons... ; )
Best brushes to get are the ones with the wax coating over the wood, and
under the metal bit with the bristles. Just resist the urge to bite them as
it wrecks the purpose, but then I can't resist putting anything I find in my
mouth.
They smell good too. Anyways the brand is.... um.... Hell I foget, I will
repost when I go home, they are fat and triangular at top, lil skinny bit
were the brush is, maroon gold top. Anyways I always find em at a train
shop nearby, they are cheaper than GW brushes and generally survive much
longer in my experience. They also come in sizes from *wee* to *FRICKING
'UGE!!!*...
Brushes survive long if you just flush them out good after each use, don't
dunk em in the paint, meaning don't get paint stuck up the metal bit,
brushes don't like that. I leave mine on my window sill to dry out. Stick
lil plastic covers on em to hide the bristles, and throw them in my paint
box sideways.
T