Review - Codex: Chaos Space Marines
PM Bowles
Here we go again...
INTRODUCTION
Including the all-important 'Why Collect a Chaos Space Marine Army?'
Because, we are told, "A Chaos Space Marine army is very similar to a
normal Space Marine army". I'm glad to find I didn't waste my money
getting Codex: Space Marines.
ARMY LIST
Special Rules: There are no special rules which apply to the Chaos force
as a whole, only a limitation on the HQ choices you can take (Lord or
Daemon Prince, not both) and rules for daemonic summoning and
possession, the latter having the potential to be a noticeable drawback.
Armoury: Little that's new in the wargear section, and several pieces of
Marine equipment (thunder hammers, storm shields, iron halos, force
weapons etc.) are missing. On the other hand, there are a lot of Chaos
Gifts, with Nurgle getting the largest selection. There are four psychic
powers for a Sorcerer to choose from (one for each Power except Khorne
and one undivided). Gifts count towards the wargear limit but Marks of
Chaos do not. There are also vehicle gifts, one for each Power and one
undivided, as well as the Marine upgrades (the hunter-killer missile has
been replaced by a Havoc missile launcher, a dreadnought upgrade which
acts as a heavy 2 version of the frag missile but explodes on a 1).
Chaos doesn't have access to apothecaries, so no reductors. Unlike DE
and SM, therefore, Chaos has no way of gaining bonus victory points
beyond those allowed by the scenario.
HQ: Chaos Lord, Retinue, Daemon Prince, Chaos Sorcerer, Greater Daemon.
As any good warband leader should, the Chaos Lord determines what is in
his army - depending on his Mark he can have a retinue of Plague
Marines, Berserkers, Thousand Sons, Noise Marines or Veterans (he can
take Veterans with any Mark). His Mark also allows him to use troops of
this type as Troops rather than Elites (Veterans can only be taken as
Troops if the Mark is Undivided). As he is the only model allowed a
retinue (and that can have any number of Aspiring Champions unless it is
Thousand Sons, so you can have a sqaud of power weapon-armed Berserker
Champions, for example), I would say that he is always a better option
than the Daemon Prince, who also can't take wargear or weaponry (though
he can have wings which function as a cheap jump pack). A LOrd can be
either an Exalted Champion or a Mighty Champion (-1 wound, 15pts
cheaper than Exalted), and can become a Sorcerer Lord for +10pts (but
still buys a Mark and psychic power separately).
The other HQ options are the Chaos Socererer, who looks reasonable at
30pts but has to pay at least 20 to get a Mark and Psychic Power to go
with it, and the Greater Daemons. These haven't changed from the
rulebook, so a GUO can still be destroyed by a single D-Cannon shot
while the others are as tough as an Avatar. The Daemons (except the
Bloodthirster) get the psychic power of their Power, and cannot take
extra marks, gifts, weapons or wargear. This means they work out quite
cheaply as what you see in the points box is all they are ever going to
cost you (except possibly the odd character they eat). The drawback is
that they must wait to be summoned, and if they don't get summoned they
start looking for one of your characters to possess - follow the example
in WD 230 and get a lot of Aspiring Champions.
ELITES: Chaos Terminators, Chaos Space Marine Veterans, Khorne
Berserkers, Plague Marines, Thousand Sons, Possessed Marines
Chaos Terminators are 6pts cheaper than their counterparts but less well
armed, though they have a variety of options. Possessed Marines
are expensive, but their three rolls on the Possessed Marine chart could
get them jump packs, power weapons, an invulnerable save or a variety of
characteristic bonuses.
The other units are ones which can be taken as Troops if your lord has
an appropriate Mark. I do not, as a non-Chaos player, have a problem
with the idea of taking these troops as Elites - it is in character for
a Lord to lead his Death Guard Plague Marines rather than generic
Marines, and after all this time there will probably be more Veterans
than untried Chaos Space Marines lurking around the Eye of Terror. Nor
do I have a problem with the fact that every Berserker has 3 attacks, or
that Plague Marines get blight grenades for a fifth of the
price of a character's. My problem is with the Chaos Space Marine
Veterans. For the cost of a basic Marine Veteran, these people can
infiltrate. Rather than having the option to take one weapon from a list
of heavy weapons and one from a list of special weapons, Veterans get to
pick two weapons from a combined list so can have, for example, two
heavy weapons. None of the other Elite Troops get any, and if anything
is going to stop people playing basic Chaos Marines, it will be these.
Like all basic Chaos Marines the Veteran squad has the option of being
armed with either a boltgun or a bolt pistol and close combat weapon.
So, your Undivided Lord could therefore have Veterans with close combat
weapons and bolt pistols, including plasma pistols, who have either
infiltrated or been stuck in a Rhino, or he could have half a Devastator
squad's worth of heavy weaponry - again in a squad of infiltrators. I
have visions of Chaos armies in which all the Troops set up halfway
across the board. The Veterans are a prime example of how not to make an
Elite unit; for 3pts more than a basic Chaos Marine, there is absolutely
nothing they can't do at least as well and usually better.
The other squads are arguably less abusive, and give the army a specific
character. Berserkers are short-range monsters, with each model having 2
attacks (3 for Aspiring Champions) in addition to their bonus for having
two close combat/pistol weapons. However, they and the other units are
completely devoid of heavy weaponry so Lords with the Marks of Khorne,
Nurgle and Tzeentch at least will still want basic Marines handy. The
Plague Marines and Thousand Sons are pretty much as described elsewhere,
with the Sons arguably getting the worst deal (23pts and no weapon
options, as well as no improvement over basic Marine characteristics -
just their special rules).
TROOPS: Chaos Space Marines, Daemon Packs, Nurglings
Should I bother mentioning Chaos Space Marines? With the stupidly
versatile Veterans at a Lord's disposal, there is absolutely no reason
to take these. With other troops, even Noise Marines with their low AP
weapons, the Chaos Marines provide useful firepower (but then, you could
still take Veterans as Elites). They can be equipped either with bolters
or bolt pistols and close combat weapons, and like other Chaos infantry
they have no access to the plasma cannon (though they do get an
autocannon option). The Daemons retain their generic status, and the
indictment of their performance in WD 230 seems fairly accurate; I can't
imagine why you would want these rather than a basic Marine as the
Power-specific bonuses (other than perhaps the Tzeentch pseudo-shuricat)
aren't that great and while Daemons get 2 attacks, so do Marines with
two close combat weapons/pistols. Nurglings might be a better option;
they aren't summoned, are cheap (and, admittedly, puny) and have loads
of attacks (3 each).
FAST ATTACK: Daemonic Beasts, Daemonic Cavalry, Chaos Space Marine
Bikers, Juggernauts of Khorne, Chaos Raptors
Beasts are Flesh Hounds, Fiends or Flamers but not, curiously, Beasts of
Nurgle. Like Daemon Packs, Beasts share the same profile with minor
changes depending on their Power. They are, in fact, largely identical
to Daemons except that they count as cavalry and have one less attack
each. Since Daemons with all their attacks seem weak, I doubt a faster
version with fewer attacks will be any better. Daemonic Cavalry consists
of Daemons riding one or other monster (Horrors on Discs, Plaguebearers
on Beasts - what a model that should be - and Daemonettes on Steeds).
Basically, Daemonic Cavalry is a cavalry version of the basic Daemon
with different abilities. Here is where a rules quandary crops up:
Although the Daemon riders are Plaguebearers etc., there is no mention
of them getting the normal bonuses for their Daemon type. Do they get
this bonus on top of the bonus for their mount, or just the mount bonus?
The Bikers as we all know by now have an extra attack - and cost 5pts
more than Loyalists for the privilege. They can upgrade their bike
weapon to a plasma gun or meltagun (independent characters riding Chaos
bikes also get the option to upgrade their weaponry, but only to a
meltagun or flamer). As with the Dark Eldar Succubus, because these
weapons are bike-mounted rather than part of the rider's weapon fit, an
Aspiring Champion can ride a bike with an assault weapon.
Juggernauts are frankly hideous, being half as tough as most Greater
Daemons (ie, T6, W2, invulnerable 5+ save) and having an insane fighting
ability (4 attacks at S5) all for 45pts, and a unit can consist of as
few as one model. They are not counted as cavalry, however. Note that
this is different from a Jugger Chaos Gift, which simply confers +2 A
and +2 T on its rider.
Raptors are improved Assault Marines; as others have mentioned they
automatically cause a unit they have beaten in hth on the turn they
charge to fall back, and can voluntarily leave combat. They are,
however, 10pts more expensive than a basic Assault Marine.
HEAVY SUPPORT: Chaos Havocs, Noise Marines, Chaos Obliterators, Chaos
Dreadnought, Chaos Predator, Chaos Land Raider
Havocs are the closest thing to Devastators in this army, having up to
three heavy weapons. Once again, I find them lacking when compared with
Veterans - on the one hand Havics are cheaper anhd can have one more
weapon, while on the other they can't infiltrate or take special
weapons.
The Noise Marines are basically the same as they were in the rulebook,
though the Doom Siren and Blastmaster have since changed. Both are now
variable strength (D6+4) AP5 weapons with different effects - one is a
flamer weapon, the other a 48" range blast weapon. The sonic blaster has
identical characteristics whether used as an assault 2 or a heavy 3
weapon. The low AP and high rate of fire makes Noise Marines a dedicated
ati-infantry squad, and up to three of its weapons can be blastmasters
and/or doom sirens.
60pts is a lot to pay for any model, but Obliterators seem very good.
Capable of deep strike, armed with a variety of weapons of your choice
(but may not duplicate weapons in the squad except for twin-linked
heavy bolters, power weapons and power fists). THeir weapon options
include weapons not normally available to Chaos such as the multimelta
and assault cannon. If anyone engages them in close combat, they can
change weapons in the assault phase (to give them power weapons +
fists), they have S5 and two attacks. However, they aren't allowed to
make assault moves themselves and can never advance if they defeat their
opponents.
The Chaos Dreadnought has similar characteristics to the Imperial
version, but a different selection of weapons (Including the otherwise
elusive plasma cannon) and occasionally goes mad and either runs towards
the enemy or shoots them twice in a turn. The other Chaos vehicles are
similar to the Imperial versions, though the Predator wording suggests
that you can have a different weapon in each side sponson
WARGEAR LIST
SPECIAL CHARACTERS: Abaddon the Despoiler, Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
(who has three psyhic powers and can potentially use all of them
several times a turn), Doomrider (a Biker Lord), Cypher (taken as an
Elite rather than an HQ choice, may be taken by either Chaos Space
Marines or Imperial Guard, gives you Fallen Angels - Chaos SM Veterans
affected by "They Shall Know No Fear", he has an invulnerable 4+ save
taken on 3D6 (???) against death, and he can use both his
master-crafted plaspistol and his master-crafted bolt pistol in the
same turn), Kharn the Betrayer (Gorechild is a power weapon that hits on
2+), Fabius Bile (see WD 230).
CHAOS GIFTS/MARKS OF CHAOS
DESCRIPTION OF SOME TRAITOR LEGIONS
CHOOSING A CHAOS SM ARMY
PAINTING CHAOS SMS
Conclusion: Well, I'll be off to get those 6 Veteran squads I need for
my Troops selections...On balance, I wouldn't call the Chaos army
'cheesy'. It has a lot of units and several of them (Veterans,
Berserkers, Plague and Noise Marines and Raptors spring to mind) are
very good. Most of the rest are nothing special. The Chaos army's main
strengths are in its assault capabilities, but it can provide a
formidable amount of heavy firepower as well and like the Marine army
it is low on actual weaknesses. On the other hand, it has no real
advantages over them - it is better at hth than basic Marines and
better at range than the Blood Angels, but I wuldn't say that going on
first impressions it is better than either of them.
Philip Bowles
Saxit
thinking a while to start collecting chaos just because of that one =)
Thanks for the review, but how about a preview on Eldar? Or Ill send my pet
snotling after you!
/Saxit
PM Bowles wrote in message ...
incrdbil
>The Veterans are a prime example of how not to make an
>Elite unit; for 3pts more than a basic Chaos Marine, there is absolutely
>nothing they can't do at least as well and usually better.
Well, from what I have seen here, I have to agree with you. The increase of cost is so
negligible, that all I envision is Veterans..veterans as far as the eye can see. Well,
since they are in the eye of terror, I guess their basic training period might be a bit
longer..oh a thousand years or so? Whats time matter? :)
>
>
>60pts is a lot to pay for any model, but Obliterators seem very good.
>Capable of deep strike, armed with a variety of weapons of your choice
>(but may not duplicate weapons in the squad except for twin-linked
>heavy bolters, power weapons and power fists). THeir weapon options
>include weapons not normally available to Chaos such as the multimelta
>and assault cannon. If anyone engages them in close combat, they can
>change weapons in the assault phase (to give them power weapons +
>fists), they have S5 and two attacks. However, they aren't allowed to
>make assault moves themselves and can never advance if they defeat their
>opponents.
Yeesh. 60 points at least, if not needing a tad more. Still, thery are not anything a
Battlecannon or two can't fix.
>that you can have a different weapon in each side sponson
>
>WARGEAR LIST
>
>SPECIAL CHARACTERS: Abaddon the Despoiler, Ahriman of the Thousand Sons
>(who has three psyhic powers and can potentially use all of them
>several times a turn), Doomrider (a Biker Lord), Cypher (taken as an
>Elite rather than an HQ choice, may be taken by either Chaos Space
>Marines or Imperial Guard, gives you Fallen Angels - Chaos SM Veterans
>affected by "They Shall Know No Fear", he has an invulnerable 4+ save
>taken on 3D6 (???) against death, and he can use both his
>master-crafted plaspistol and his master-crafted bolt pistol in the
>same turn),
Well, so much for keeping Special characters in balance. I assume Cypher still has some
limitation to that save? He sued to "bug out" if he had to use it, but didnt count as
killed IIRC.
>PAINTING CHAOS SMS
>
l. The Chaos army's main
>strengths are in its assault capabilities, but it can provide a
>formidable amount of heavy firepower as well and like the Marine army
>it is low on actual weaknesses. On the other hand, it has no real
>advantages over them - it is better at hth than basic Marines and
>better at range than the Blood Angels, but I wuldn't say that going on
>first impressions it is better than either of them.
>
>Philip Bowles
Is it flexible enough to do BOTH at the same time? Te inherent wider variety of options
would appear to be a leg up at least on their loyalist counterparts.
I keep wondering how this codex escalation will peak? And just what my nearly last
released Space Wolves will look like :)
>
PM Bowles
On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Saxit wrote:
> The jugger model with a chaos lord is one of my favo units, Ive been
> thinking a while to start collecting chaos just because of that one =)
> Thanks for the review, but how about a preview on Eldar? Or Ill send my pet
> snotling after you!
Well, I only saw a draft; the book hasn't been made and so the rules are
still provisional - it's release date so far as I can tell is July. The
army seems to emphasise squad-level characters, in that several Warrior
Powers and Warlock psychic powers are purchased as character upgrades
which affect the entire squad (A squad led by a Warlock with the
Conceal ability counts as being in cover permanently, for example -
Warlock powers are permanently in effect and they don't take psychic
tests). On the subject of squad-level characters, Exarchs now come
as an upgrade rather than an addition to an Aspect Warrior squad. There
are a LOT of Eldar weapons, many of which are ranged weapons that can
also be used in close combat and most of which are power weapons of one
sort or another. An Eldar weakness has been addressed with the
introduction of a lot of weapons capable of pinning opponents - Ranger
longrifles, plasma missiles from the Eldar Missile Launcher, the
Vibro-Cannon (I think), shadow weaver and D-Cannon barrages and I think
one other weapon. I am not going to divulge more specific information
except occasionally where it is relevant (such as the Diresword/Force
Weapon comments).
Philip Bowles
PM Bowles
On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, incrdbil wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:28:58 GMT, PM Bowles <pb6...@bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Well, so much for keeping Special characters in balance. I assume Cypher still has some
> limitation to that save? He sued to "bug out" if he had to use it, but didnt count as
> killed IIRC.
The only limitation is that he can only use it against attacks which
would reduce him to 0 wounds.
> l. The Chaos army's main
> >strengths are in its assault capabilities, but it can provide a
> >formidable amount of heavy firepower as well and like the Marine army
> >it is low on actual weaknesses. On the other hand, it has no real
> >advantages over them - it is better at hth than basic Marines and
> >better at range than the Blood Angels, but I wuldn't say that going on
> >first impressions it is better than either of them.
> >
> >Philip Bowles
>
> Is it flexible enough to do BOTH at the same time? Te inherent wider variety of options
> would appear to be a leg up at least on their loyalist counterparts.
It is, but then the basic loyalist Marines are similarly versatile -
they just have more firepower than assault troops, while with Chaos it
is the other way around.
> I keep wondering how this codex escalation will peak?
Well, Codex: Craftworld Eldar looks balanced, if possibly weakening
several units ("Where's my D-Cannon gone", I hear Wraithlords cry in
anguish. Just before they say "Hey, get that melta-bomb off my foot."
BOOM!) That's due in July, after DA, Orks, Guard and possibly someone
else.
Philip Bowles
Farseer
conversions I'd rather not have to call "close combat weapons"
BAZ!
PM Bowles wrote in message ...
>
>
>
>> On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:28:58 GMT, PM Bowles <pb6...@bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Well, so much for keeping Special characters in balance. I assume Cypher
still has some
>> limitation to that save? He sued to "bug out" if he had to use it, but
didnt count as
>> killed IIRC.
>
>The only limitation is that he can only use it against attacks which
>would reduce him to 0 wounds.
>
Not the only limitation, in that even if he makes the save (and let's face
it, that'll be most of the time) he disappears from the battlefield, so you
can no longer use him. Basically the only purpose of this save is to deny
your opponent the victory points for Cypher (if he fails the save you get
the VP's, if he makes the save he doesn't die but is whisked away, denying
you the VP's for a 151 point mini, which makes him proportionately more
important in smaller games but only when using VP's).
BAZ! : ' >
PM Bowles
On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Farseer wrote:
> Have Daemon Weapons, Axes of Khorne, and Plagueswords returned?
The Daemon Weapon has gone. The Axe of Khorne allows you to roll to hit
again every time you successfully hit something, the Plaguesword is a
power weapon and kills its target on a 4+ (otherwise it just causes 1
wound). I think the Axe is also a power weapon, but I'm not certain.
Philip Bowles
Reaver
Wraithlords, an Avatar and a squad of Banshees. Have you any idea if this is
gonna change - I mean will it still be legal to switch your Guardians for
Wraitguards and Wraithlords? Otherwise I'm gonna end up with a couple of
Wraithlords which I cannot use du to the limits of heavy squads.
----------------------------------------------------
Reaver
----------------------------------------------------
bloodt...@khorne.dk
rea...@vejlegruppen.dk
http://www.vejlegruppen.dk/reaver
----------------------------------------------------
'Only the weak are afraid to die.
The strong conquers death'
- Reaver -
----------------------------------------------------
It has recently been discovered
that research causes cancer in
laboratory rats.
----------------------------------------------------
PM Bowles
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Reaver wrote:
> I'm in the process of building a Ghost army. It conists mostly of
> Wraithlords, an Avatar and a squad of Banshees. Have you any idea if this is
> gonna change - I mean will it still be legal to switch your Guardians for
> Wraitguards and Wraithlords?
There's no mention of any of the Craftworld-specific armies, but then I
just saw the army list, not any Appendices. I can tell you, however,
that Wraithlords have been weakened somewhat and the Wraithguard have
been weakened severely.
Philip Bowles
Reaver
It is truly a sad day for the damned race. May the Laughing God seek revenge
upon the infidels.
I hop ethey compensate for the weakening with points reduction. I admit that
in it's current form the Wraithlord is an awsome opponent: T7 W3 and 3A.
VERY hard to kill. And then mount a D-cannon. Bye-bye tank.
Thanks for giving me an idea of the future. Maybe I should consider my Eldar
army until the Codex arrives to see what has changed.
----------------------------------------------------
Reaver
----------------------------------------------------
bloodt...@khorne.dk
rea...@vejlegruppen.dk
http://www.vejlegruppen.dk/reaver
----------------------------------------------------
'Only the weak are afraid to die.
The strong conquers death'
- Reaver -
----------------------------------------------------
It has recently been discovered
that research causes cancer in
laboratory rats.
----------------------------------------------------
PM Bowles <pb6...@bris.ac.uk> wrote in message
Pine.SOL.3.95q.99012...@sis.bris.ac.uk...
PM Bowles
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Reaver wrote:
> Are they weakening the Eldar craftmanship AND their spirits????
>
> It is truly a sad day for the damned race. May the Laughing God seek revenge
> upon the infidels.
>
> I hop ethey compensate for the weakening with points reduction. I admit that
> in it's current form the Wraithlord is an awsome opponent: T7 W3 and 3A.
> VERY hard to kill. And then mount a D-cannon. Bye-bye tank.
>
> Thanks for giving me an idea of the future. Maybe I should consider my Eldar
> army until the Codex arrives to see what has changed.
Neither unit has changed in PV or characteristics. The following changes
have been made:
Wraithguard: Special rule - Ghostvision. Unless accompanied by a Farseer
or Warlock, roll a D6 for the squad at the start of the turn. On a 1 it
can do nothing that turn.
Wraithcannon: Range 12". Always kills on 4+ (useful against Greater
Daemons, significantly worse than the meltagun against most infantry),
causes a glancing hit on a vehicle on 4 and a penetrating hit on 5+ (ie,
as though it was S8+D6 AP vs. AV 12 - again a worse deal than the
meltagun).
Wraithlord: Weapon options - Shuriken cannon, scatter laser, Eldar
missile launcher, brightlance, starcannon (no D-Cannon).
Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
Wraithlord in close combat.
Philip Bowles
Mista Bitch
the goddamn topic?
fucker..
BAZ!
Mista Bitch wrote in message <01be498c$78282ae0$6f5817cf@nurgle>...
>Hey fuckface.. when you post your bitchass eldar shit, why don't you change
>the goddamn topic?
>fucker..
>
<sarcasm> ROFL Hey, that was great. Can we hear some more of your
undeserving "flames". No, really, that one truly reaches the height of
Alecdom, I'm sure everyone will agree. <deactivate sarcasm>
BAZ! : ' >
BTW, did you pick your name because it sounded good or are you really a
lady-boy?
Brian D. Schenck
wrote:
>Hey fuckface.. when you post your bitchass eldar shit, why don't you change
>the goddamn topic?
>fucker..
Hey smart guy! Why don't you include the text you were actually
replying to! Better yet, why don't you cut out the cursing!
Muncher...
--
Brian D. Schenck
mail to: shr...@wam.umd.edu
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Orion/2976/
"Poit! Zort! Narffff...." - From the collected sayings of Pinky
Join the fight against SPAM! Visit http://www.cauce.org and lend your
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Read the RGMW FAQ! - http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
His Divine Shadow
>the goddamn topic?
>fucker..
>
hey, calm down. why get worked up about a stupid little thing like that?
especially when there are many more important thinks to get worked up about,
like overpouplation, people starving all over the world, global warming,
depleting oil reserves, civil wars and ethnic conflicts. hell, our entire
galaxy could just be taken out like that <snaps fingers>. lets have a bit
of perspective here.
His Divine Shadow
(formerly superdave)
UIN: 1751797
http://www.deathsdoor.com/thesump
----------------------------------------
The day cannot save them,
And we own
The Night
- Warmaster Horus, before the assault on the Imperial Palace
----------------------------------------
Ville Salo
>Hey fuckface.. when you post your bitchass eldar shit, why don't you change
>the goddamn topic?
>fucker..
Caution! Area infested with frenzied chaos followers. Caution!
--
If you find yourself offended by this message, please
don't flame me, I wasn't serious. I never am. Sorry.
Ville Salo remove "removthis" to reply
Rob Fungsang
Mista Bitch wrote in message <01be498c$78282ae0$6f5817cf@nurgle>...
>the goddamn topic?
>fucker..
>
Rob Fungsang,
if you can't understand the sarcasm, then go find ROBPCW1. You two can have
an intelligence-free conversation.
Kharne
PM Bowles wrote:
> Well, I only saw a draft; the book hasn't been made and so the rules are
> still provisional - it's release date so far as I can tell is July.
Wow, that far away! According to two game store owners I know, the Codex: Chaos
is due out in late February. Are you sure its July?
PM Bowles
So I've been told. There's no way it will be February as there are at
least three Codices coming before it (Dark Angels, Orks, Imperial
Guard), and we may not even be seeing one next month (no mention of one
in WD 230).
Philip Bowles
Darryl Hills
the Chaos Codex. The GW guys running the comp said it would be available in
Feb. That is in Australia.
PM Bowles wrote in message ...
>
>
Duo Maxwell
>> > Well, I only saw a draft; the book hasn't been made and so the rules
are
>> > still provisional - it's release date so far as I can tell is July.
>>
>> Wow, that far away! According to two game store owners I know, the
Codex: Chaos
>> is due out in late February.
>
>So I've been told. There's no way it will be February as there are at
>least three Codices coming before it (Dark Angels, Orks, Imperial
>Guard), and we may not even be seeing one next month (no mention of one
>in WD 230).
Eldar maybe, but Chaos is out next month. WD 229 had it for advance order.
Scott Marshall
> Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
> Wraithlord in close combat.
How do the grenades work against it, unless they change it back into a vehicle.
Lee Marshall
The net is vast and infinite.
PM Bowles
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Darryl Hills wrote:
> One of the guys at the comp I was at on the weekend had an advance copy of
> the Chaos Codex. The GW guys running the comp said it would be available in
> Feb. That is in Australia.
I have Codex: Chaos. That is in England. The draft I referred to (for a
Codex due in July) was that for Codex: Craftworld Eldar (obviously the
fact that no one changed the header is confusing people).
Philip Bowles
PM Bowles
Chaos is out now; Eldar is definitely a while away - the comments about
seeing a draft were for Codex: Eldar. I have Codex: Chaos.
Philip Bowles
Pertti Rassi
>
>So I've been told. There's no way it will be February as there are at
>least three Codices coming before it (Dark Angels, Orks, Imperial
>Guard), and we may not even be seeing one next month (no mention of one
>in WD 230).
>
due in February.
JasonALang
In article <01be498c$78282ae0$6f5817cf@nurgle>, "Mista Bitch"
<lmau...@dowco.com> writes:
>Hey fuckface.. when you post your bitchass eldar shit, why don't you change
>the goddamn topic?
>fucker..
Ya gotta admire a fuckin guy who can fuckin say fuckin every fuckin other
fuckin word. Shows fuckin lots of fuckin intelligence.
_______________________________________________________
St. Jason of Huale.
'You're older then you've ever been, and now you're even older...'
SPoKOS (Society for the Prevention of Killing Off Squats)
http://members.aol.com/jasonalang/SPoKOS.html
PM Bowles
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Scott Marshall wrote:
> The message <Pine.SOL.3.95q.99012...@sis.bris.ac.uk>
>
> > Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
> > Wraithlord in close combat.
>
> How do the grenades work against it, unless they change it back into a vehicle.
They just get to make an attack against it with the grenade's strength.
I didn't actually think to check how haywire could affect it, but it
isn't a vehicle.
Philip Bowles
Reaver
he had to be unpolite.
----------------------------------------------------
Reaver
----------------------------------------------------
bloodt...@khorne.dk
rea...@vejlegruppen.dk
http://www.vejlegruppen.dk/reaver
----------------------------------------------------
'Only the weak are afraid to die.
The strong conquers death'
- Reaver -
----------------------------------------------------
It has recently been discovered
that research causes cancer in
laboratory rats.
----------------------------------------------------
19990129032444...@ngol01.aol.com...
Reaver
lack of changeing the Subject can stir you that much. Seek help
----------------------------------------------------
Reaver
----------------------------------------------------
bloodt...@khorne.dk
rea...@vejlegruppen.dk
http://www.vejlegruppen.dk/reaver
----------------------------------------------------
'Only the weak are afraid to die.
The strong conquers death'
- Reaver -
----------------------------------------------------
It has recently been discovered
that research causes cancer in
laboratory rats.
----------------------------------------------------
01be498c$78282ae0$6f5817cf@nurgle...
Reaver
construction. It's got mechanical and electrical parts which can be blown by
a haywire. If havnen't read the new rules for a haywire, but I suppose it
affects a common Dread as well?
----------------------------------------------------
Reaver
----------------------------------------------------
bloodt...@khorne.dk
rea...@vejlegruppen.dk
http://www.vejlegruppen.dk/reaver
----------------------------------------------------
'Only the weak are afraid to die.
The strong conquers death'
- Reaver -
----------------------------------------------------
It has recently been discovered
that research causes cancer in
laboratory rats.
----------------------------------------------------
Scott Marshall <go...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
199901282...@zetnet.co.uk...
>The message <Pine.SOL.3.95q.99012...@sis.bris.ac.uk>
>
>> Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
>> Wraithlord in close combat.
>
>How do the grenades work against it, unless they change it back into a
vehicle.
>
Baz
PM Bowles wrote in message ...
>
>
>
>>
>> > Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
>> > Wraithlord in close combat.
>>
>> How do the grenades work against it, unless they change it back into a
vehicle.
>
>I didn't actually think to check how haywire could affect it, but it
>isn't a vehicle.
>
>Philip Bowles
>
So it can still be autokilled by a Plaguemarine if he rolls a 6 in H-2-H?
BAZ! : ' >
Baz
Reaver wrote in message <36b19...@news.euroconnect.dk>...
>If you think about it the Wraithlord is a Dreadnaught, also in its
>construction. It's got mechanical and electrical parts which can be blown
by
>a haywire. If havnen't read the new rules for a haywire, but I suppose it
>affects a common Dread as well?
I thought they were grown by warp spiders in some way, in the same way as
the wraithbone which makes up the craftworlds? Anyway, the point is that
although everyone knows the Wraithlord is a vehicle, it is actually
represented by trooper stats, so whereas a haywire might cause the vehicle
to roll on the damage table, this approach would not work for the wraithlord
so they would need new rules to establish in what way haywire does affect
the Eldar dread.
BAZ! : ' >
>
>----------------------------------------------------
>Reaver
>----------------------------------------------------
>bloodt...@khorne.dk
>rea...@vejlegruppen.dk
>http://www.vejlegruppen.dk/reaver
>----------------------------------------------------
>'Only the weak are afraid to die.
>The strong conquers death'
>- Reaver -
>----------------------------------------------------
>It has recently been discovered
>that research causes cancer in
>laboratory rats.
>----------------------------------------------------
>Scott Marshall <go...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>199901282...@zetnet.co.uk...
>>The message <Pine.SOL.3.95q.99012...@sis.bris.ac.uk>
>>
>>> Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
>>> Wraithlord in close combat.
>>
>>How do the grenades work against it, unless they change it back into a
>vehicle.
>>
Rob Fungsang
PM Bowles wrote in message ...
>
>
>On Thu, 28 Jan 1999, Scott Marshall wrote:
>
>>
>> > Special rule - Melta-bombs, krak and haywire grenades affect a
>> > Wraithlord in close combat.
>>
>> How do the grenades work against it, unless they change it back into a
vehicle.
>
>I didn't actually think to check how haywire could affect it, but it
>isn't a vehicle.
>
>Philip Bowles
>
Rob Fungsang
PM Bowles
I doubt it; the Talos' being a skimmer will probably be used to justify
this if anyone asks.
Philip Bowles
PM Bowles
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Reaver wrote:
> If you think about it the Wraithlord is a Dreadnaught, also in its
> construction. It's got mechanical and electrical parts which can be blown by
> a haywire. If havnen't read the new rules for a haywire, but I suppose it
> affects a common Dread as well?
If it's immobile; it is 'clamped' to vehicles in the same way as a krak
grenade or melta-bomb, it is simply a (potentially) more powerful
version.
Philip Bowles
PM Bowles
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999, Baz wrote:
>
> Reaver wrote in message <36b19...@news.euroconnect.dk>...
> >If you think about it the Wraithlord is a Dreadnaught, also in its
> >construction. It's got mechanical and electrical parts which can be blown
> by
> >a haywire. If havnen't read the new rules for a haywire, but I suppose it
> >affects a common Dread as well?
>
>
> I thought they were grown by warp spiders in some way, in the same way as
> the wraithbone which makes up the craftworlds? Anyway, the point is that
> although everyone knows the Wraithlord is a vehicle, it is actually
> represented by trooper stats, so whereas a haywire might cause the vehicle
> to roll on the damage table, this approach would not work for the wraithlord
> so they would need new rules to establish in what way haywire does affect
> the Eldar dread.
Actually, since the haywire grenade is not dependent on armour value it
is theoretically possible to use one against something without one -
you'd still use the tables to find out what happened. However, this
approach would be unreasonably powerful against something with three
wounds and a toughness too high to allow instant killing by
conventional methods.
Philip Bowles
Baz
PM Bowles wrote in message ...
>
>
Not to mention the fact that, currently, the Wraithlord can't be
immobilised, so the bomb could be used immediately I suppose (I've been told
the haywire only works against immobilised vehicles), without having to
damage it initially as you would with a standard dread.
BAZ! : ' >
PM Bowles
True, but at least with krak and melta you will be able to attack a
mobile Wraithlord as of the Codex.
Philip Bowles