[PAINT]Acrylic Mediums and Paint Extenders
Hemlocke
becoming a TIMO!
I'm looking to get input on what is the best way to wet blend colours on
a mini or model. I've tried doing different layers dry but I can't get the
nice smooth look for robes or cloth that way. I've been told wet blending is
a good way to get the look I want but the paint always seems to dry out on me
too quickly so any tips would be useful. Sorry in advance if this is an old
topic but I haven't really seen it discussed while I've been lurking here
(I've seen Myr mention it once in a while but with no real explanation). At
the same time what works best for you guys...should I just go to the art
store and buy a bottle of Acrylic medium?
Thanks in advance,
Hemlocke
(remove the nospams to reply)
Myrmidon
hemnosp...@noshawspam.ca says...
An art supply store is a good place to start (or look on line,
there are a number of places on line that sell art supplies and what
you're looking for - you just need the right terminology to ask for what
you want.) What you want is a 'retarding agent' - not so much acrylic
medium. Acrylic Medium is simply acrylic paint (as in the paint vehicle
or body) without any pigment. There's a variety of 'Acrylic Mediums'
and they're used for a variety of purposes. It can serve to make
regular acrylic paint more transparent by mixing in with paint and
diluting the pigment to binder (acrylic medium) ratio. It can also make
paint thicker and allow the user to make textures on a surface. Some
acrylic mediums even come with sand and other particles mixed in for
texture. In addition it can be applied as a transparent (gloss or matt)
layer on top of a work to protect it (much like varnish is often used on
minis). And it can also be used for blending (to a limited extent) as
you asked, but there are better products for what you want to do.
The items you're most likely looking for would be 'retarding agents' -
which are formulated to slow down the rate at which acrylic paint dries
and becomes unworkable. I use Liquitex's "Slow-Dri Gel Retarder" -
which is thick and requires a bit of distilled water and a lot of
stirring with a toothpick to completely mix into one's paint. The other
product you'd likely be looking for is commonly called a 'Flow-aid'
which keeps the paint smoothly flowing from your brush to the paint
surface. (It keeps the pigment particles from clumping up which is a
problem for some pigments - IIRC organic pigments are the worst for
this).
The hard part of explaining 'paint blending' is that it's part visual
(technique and color theory) and part paint chemistry. The chemistry
isn't so hard to explain in simple terms, but the other requires a web
site, and I just haven't got the time to plow through learning HTML and
setting up a site at the moment.
A good place to start would be the:
"New Artist's Handbook" by Ray Smith
DK Publishing (www.dk.com)
ISBN 0-7894-9336-5
(Printed in Spain)
It's 380+ pages and while there's a lot of material you won't likely
ever need or use - there's sections on paint chemistry and pigments,
color theory, safty, etc. (Check and see if you can find it at your
local/college library or through an inner library loan before buying
it.)
The other thing is being willing to try some practice blending on a
stiff piece of white card or poster board. The paint won't always
handle the way you think it will (pigments will react with each other,
different paint formulas will do odd things, etc) and the colors that
'sounded great' or 'looked great in your mind's eye' just won't work out
in reality. (The reason you want to practice on a good bright white
surface is because colors next to your painted areas will influence the
final appearance - but that's a whole other discussion on vision and
human optic nerves.) It's far better to use a bit of paint learning
it's characteristics prior to working than spending a life time wasting
paint.
Hope that helps, and don't hesistate to ask if you've got more
questions.
Myrmidon
--
Re: (40k) Spacewolves, how are they?
**best waiter impersonation**
They're very good this evening Sir, I recommend them with the
side serving of cranberry sauce.
-- Jon Hedge
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
twitch
>Hi Group! Long time lurker, first time poster...and I'm trying to avoid
>becoming a TIMO!
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5) Do you own one or more of the following: kneepads. Protective eye goggles.
6) Are you able to distinguish brand and colour of paint residue by taste?
7) Give the proper spelling of one or more of the following:
a) A certain Blood Angels chaplain sculpted by McVey
b) A certain lord of necromancers sculpted by Morley
c) An ill-concieved set of rules about an Empire armored vehicle
8) Do you think Blank_Dave *can* build a bigger form flame?
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Andy O'Neill
news:Xns9485EF6A72143he...@24.71.223.159...
> Hi Group! Long time lurker, first time poster...and I'm trying to avoid
> becoming a TIMO!
> I'm looking to get input on what is the best way to wet blend colours
on
> a mini or model. I've tried doing different layers dry but I can't get the
> nice smooth look for robes or cloth that way. I've been told wet blending
is
> a good way to get the look I want
I think you might find coolminiornot interesting.
IIRC there's some stuff on there about blending in one of the articles.
Even if there isn't, you'll find something makes the effort worthwhile.
I like using a pre-shade technique as a starter.
Maybe that'd help.
See web site.
For wet blending I just go with speed.
If I apply a stain over pre-shading the hi-lights are the major thing left..
Stains are fairly fluid anyhow so usually take a while longer to dry and no
additive is necessary.
The key to the way I do this isL
Have the paint ready on your palette.
Practice so you're confident.
Load the brush lightly with a stain as the hi-lite.
Having said that.
Layering is easier and I couldn't usually be arsed taking the time to use
more complex effects.
I think one of the best products GW do is their new book on painting.
--
Regards,
Andy O'Neill
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm
or, for no javascript and a faster load...
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sitemap.htm
Myrmidon
aon14noc...@lycos.co.uk says...
> "Hemlocke" <hemnosp...@noshawspam.ca> wrote in message
> news:Xns9485EF6A72143he...@24.71.223.159...
> > Hi Group! Long time lurker, first time poster...and I'm trying to avoid
> > becoming a TIMO!
> > I'm looking to get input on what is the best way to wet blend colours
> on
> > a mini or model. I've tried doing different layers dry but I can't get the
> > nice smooth look for robes or cloth that way. I've been told wet blending
> is
> > a good way to get the look I want
>
> I think you might find coolminiornot interesting.
> IIRC there's some stuff on there about blending in one of the articles.
> Even if there isn't, you'll find something makes the effort worthwhile.
>
> I like using a pre-shade technique as a starter.
> Maybe that'd help.
> See web site.
>
should include more about the brush care with the bit about fixing
brushes. Two more brush care tips - one is cleaning them with a good
brush soap that cleans out the paint but doesn't strip out all the
beneficial oils in natural hair brushes (and even good synthetics). The
other tip that goes along with fixing ragged brushes is to use hair
conditioner. Mix up warm water and hair conditioner in a shallow
plastic tray and let the bristles soak in it for a while. (Folks -
don't just take a jar and stand the brushes in them bristles down - this
is part of the reason they get all ragged and splayed out in the first
place.) Once they've soaked for a bit - either leave the conditioner
in, and shape the brush and let it dry in pointed shape again (retrains
the bristles) or use a good brush cleaning soap and again leave a bit of
the soap in and let the brush dry. (Good brushes often come with a bit
of soap or gel in the bristles to help them keep their shape while
they're in the bin before being sold.) Simply wash the brush in warm
water again before using it next.
> For wet blending I just go with speed.
Yeah, but most people are oddly reluctant to practice blending
prior to actually painting a mini with that technique. Unfortunately
the key to speed is confidence and a bit of knowledge of the paint
characteristics. I hear 'I don't want to waste paint' a lot as a reason
not to practice on a test sheet. Simple answer - it wastes more time,
effort, and paint to screw up a mini and have to redo it than it does to
practice paint blending on a piece of disposable card before hand.
> If I apply a stain over pre-shading the hi-lights are the major thing left..
> Stains are fairly fluid anyhow so usually take a while longer to dry and no
> additive is necessary.
> The key to the way I do this isL
> Have the paint ready on your palette.
> Practice so you're confident.
> Load the brush lightly with a stain as the hi-lite.
>
> Having said that.
> Layering is easier and I couldn't usually be arsed taking the time to use
> more complex effects.
A lot of really skillful oil painters I've seen use the same type
of techniques. For example they'll do a portrait with the person's
image done in gray-scale (like a black and white picture - much like you
describe on your sit with the dark stain and then white highlighting) as
the first step of the process. Once the under image is done, they apply
numerous thin transparent coats or washes of color to the image. It can
take a lot of effort (like 30 - 50 coats of color for a given area) -
but the depth and richness of the colors is stunning. (One of the more
common methods is to do the under-paint/gray scale part in acrylics
which dry quickly and accept oil paints well, and then apply thin layers
of oils, which dry much more quickly than thick layers of oil paint, and
has a deep luscious look to it when layered well.)
> I think one of the best products GW do is their new book on painting.
>
Ok, I'll bite - which book is that? Got a title and ISBN number
or a link to it on GW's site?
Myr
--
#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.
- Eric Noland
# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army
- Roy Cox
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****
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Or...
Your name
news:MPG.1a8bbc6f4...@news-server.woh.rr.com:
<<SNIP>>
> The items you're most likely looking for would be 'retarding agents' -
> which are formulated to slow down the rate at which acrylic paint dries
> and becomes unworkable. I use Liquitex's "Slow-Dri Gel Retarder" -
> which is thick and requires a bit of distilled water and a lot of
> stirring with a toothpick to completely mix into one's paint. The other
> product you'd likely be looking for is commonly called a 'Flow-aid'
> which keeps the paint smoothly flowing from your brush to the paint
> surface. (It keeps the pigment particles from clumping up which is a
> problem for some pigments - IIRC organic pigments are the worst for
> this).
Thanks Myr, I have several pretty good quality art stores near my home that
sell the full Liquitex line and a variety of other types so I'll definitely
check that out for the paint retarder and I'll have to do a search on that
'Flow-aid' product
> The hard part of explaining 'paint blending' is that it's part visual
> (technique and color theory) and part paint chemistry. The chemistry
> isn't so hard to explain in simple terms, but the other requires a web
> site, and I just haven't got the time to plow through learning HTML and
> setting up a site at the moment.
>
> A good place to start would be the:
>
> "New Artist's Handbook" by Ray Smith
> DK Publishing (www.dk.com)
> ISBN 0-7894-9336-5
> (Printed in Spain)
>
> It's 380+ pages and while there's a lot of material you won't likely
> ever need or use - there's sections on paint chemistry and pigments,
> color theory, safty, etc. (Check and see if you can find it at your
> local/college library or through an inner library loan before buying
> it.)
I learned the basic theory in my Watercolour classes and some high school
art classes but I could definetly use a brush up on the subject...I'll see
if my library has it.
> The other thing is being willing to try some practice blending on a
> stiff piece of white card or poster board. The paint won't always
> handle the way you think it will (pigments will react with each other,
> different paint formulas will do odd things, etc) and the colors that
> 'sounded great' or 'looked great in your mind's eye' just won't work out
> in reality. (The reason you want to practice on a good bright white
> surface is because colors next to your painted areas will influence the
> final appearance - but that's a whole other discussion on vision and
> human optic nerves.) It's far better to use a bit of paint learning
> it's characteristics prior to working than spending a life time wasting
> paint.
>
> Hope that helps, and don't hesistate to ask if you've got more
> questions.
>
> Myrmidon
never thought of poster board as a practice surface...and I think they do
make it in black as well (I work from black primer rather than white).
Thanks again Myr
Your name
news:20040205082256...@mb-m21.aol.com:
>>
>>Hi Group! Long time lurker, first time poster...and I'm trying to avoid
>>becoming a TIMO!
>
> Before you can post again, you must fill out this application:
>
> 9) Have you ever top-posted?
>
> Welcome to the RGMW entry application. In order to become a functioning
> member of this newsgroup, you must fill out the following form. Failure
> to do so will result in pain, agony, discomfort, and perhaps even
> shunning. You have been warned.
>
>
> 1) How do we know what sort of deviant you are?
>
> 2) Have you at any time in your life, actually and seriously used
> hacker caps to communicate?
>
> 3) Smithdoerr or not Smithdoerr?
>
> 4) In three words or less, define homopyronecropedobaziphilia.
>
> 5) Do you own one or more of the following: kneepads. Protective eye
> goggles.
>
> 6) Are you able to distinguish brand and colour of paint residue by
> taste?
>
> 7) Give the proper spelling of one or more of the following:
> a) A certain Blood Angels chaplain sculpted by McVey
> b) A certain lord of necromancers sculpted by Morley
> c) An ill-concieved set of rules about an Empire armored vehicle
>
> 8) Do you think Blank_Dave *can* build a bigger form flame?
>
>
>
9) I avoid that flame trap like I try to avoid grammar nazis (no offense to
the grammar nazis intended...keep up the good work you guys and gals)
1) Only time will tell but the fact that I'm involded in the same hobby as
Fat Bloke should tell you I'm a glutton for punishment.
2) um...please God let the pain of Hax0r speak stop
3) unknown at this time (and yes I looked him up on Google)
4)homopyronecropedobaziphilia - flaming pants
5)nope
6)nope...still to new at the paint side
7) a) L*********S
b) Z*******S or M*****D because I like neither of them
8)I'm sure he could but why would he want to?
Your name
news:MPG.1a8c5a4ee...@news-server.woh.rr.com:
<<snip>>
> Like the info about fixing ragged brushes - but I do think you
> should include more about the brush care with the bit about fixing
> brushes. Two more brush care tips - one is cleaning them with a good
> brush soap that cleans out the paint but doesn't strip out all the
> beneficial oils in natural hair brushes (and even good synthetics). The
> other tip that goes along with fixing ragged brushes is to use hair
> conditioner. Mix up warm water and hair conditioner in a shallow
> plastic tray and let the bristles soak in it for a while. (Folks -
> don't just take a jar and stand the brushes in them bristles down - this
> is part of the reason they get all ragged and splayed out in the first
> place.) Once they've soaked for a bit - either leave the conditioner
> in, and shape the brush and let it dry in pointed shape again (retrains
> the bristles) or use a good brush cleaning soap and again leave a bit of
> the soap in and let the brush dry. (Good brushes often come with a bit
> of soap or gel in the bristles to help them keep their shape while
> they're in the bin before being sold.) Simply wash the brush in warm
> water again before using it next.
Dang, have to get more brush soap...keep forgetting to pick some up...wish
hobby shops would carry it but I'd hate to see the price GW would charge
for it if they charge $7.00CAN for a bottle of super glue
<<SNIP>>
>> I think one of the best products GW do is their new book on painting.
>>
> Ok, I'll bite - which book is that? Got a title and ISBN number
> or a link to it on GW's site?
>
> Myr
>
Is that the "How to paint Citadel Minatures" book?
Myrmidon
hemnosp...@noshawspam.ca says...
> Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1a8c5a4ee...@news-server.woh.rr.com:
> <<snip>>
> > Like the info about fixing ragged brushes - but I do think you
> > should include more about the brush care with the bit about fixing
> > brushes. Two more brush care tips - one is cleaning them with a good
> > brush soap that cleans out the paint but doesn't strip out all the
> > beneficial oils in natural hair brushes (and even good synthetics). The
> > other tip that goes along with fixing ragged brushes is to use hair
> > conditioner. Mix up warm water and hair conditioner in a shallow
> > plastic tray and let the bristles soak in it for a while. (Folks -
> > don't just take a jar and stand the brushes in them bristles down - this
> > is part of the reason they get all ragged and splayed out in the first
> > place.) Once they've soaked for a bit - either leave the conditioner
> > in, and shape the brush and let it dry in pointed shape again (retrains
> > the bristles) or use a good brush cleaning soap and again leave a bit of
> > the soap in and let the brush dry. (Good brushes often come with a bit
> > of soap or gel in the bristles to help them keep their shape while
> > they're in the bin before being sold.) Simply wash the brush in warm
> > water again before using it next.
>
> Dang, have to get more brush soap...keep forgetting to pick some up...wish
> hobby shops would carry it but I'd hate to see the price GW would charge
> for it if they charge $7.00CAN for a bottle of super glue
>
preserver. And yeah, it's expensive - about $7.00 US for a 2.5 ounce
tub, but it lasts a long time and greatly extends the working life of
good brushes so it more than pays for itself in the long run. It comes
in smaller pastic containers for transport when one is out painting on
site (land scape painting) etc.
> <<SNIP>>
> >> I think one of the best products GW do is their new book on painting.
> >>
> > Ok, I'll bite - which book is that? Got a title and ISBN number
> > or a link to it on GW's site?
> >
> > Myr
> >
>
> Is that the "How to paint Citadel Minatures" book?
>
Hopefully Andy will pop back in and reply. It may well be, but
I'm not 100% certain. The cover is new and has more recent minis like
the plastic 40K Dread, and the Grey Knights figures, but I'm not sure
that it's all new content compaired to the old book they had out.
Myrmidon
Hemlocke
news:MPG.1a8c76bc...@news-server.woh.rr.com:
<<SNIP>>
>> Is that the "How to paint Citadel Minatures" book?
>>
> Hopefully Andy will pop back in and reply. It may well be, but
> I'm not 100% certain. The cover is new and has more recent minis like
> the plastic 40K Dread, and the Grey Knights figures, but I'm not sure
> that it's all new content compaired to the old book they had out.
>
> Myrmidon
>
I took a look at it and it appeared to be mostly their 'eavy Metal
massterclass paint sections from WD some newer minis in it but I never looked
at the old version so I can't compare the two.
fog
mess you see below...
Find a copy of 'Eavy Metal, published in '93 (I think). That with a
little tutoring from an artsy fartsy friend of mine helped more than
anything else. While its blending section is a bit sparse in
instruction, the horse guide and highlighting techniques in it are right
on the mark. It's also got a nice section on converting.
--
b
r.g.m.w. FAQ at www.rgmw.org - Just read the damn thing.
"Flee, the Stoic Riders of Saim-Hann are upon us!
Our bolters are no match for their good posture!" -- Blue Raja
"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they
were weak and stupid people--and that's why
we have wolves and other large predators."
-- Gary Larson, The Far Side
Qrab
Hemlocke <hemnosp...@noshawspam.ca> wrote:
> Hi Group! Long time lurker, first time poster...and I'm trying to avoid
> becoming a TIMO!
<snip>
> Thanks in advance,
In addition to the advice given my Myrmidon and Andy, another prospect
is to use a 'wet pallete'. I think I saw an article about this on
coolminiornot.com. The short version is a plastic container (like a
Confrontation blister), artist's pallete paper cut to size, a sponge cut
to size and some water. The sponge, paper & water keep the acrylic paint
moist enough to work. Never tried it myself, but I've got the raw
materials to do so.
--
Be seeing you-
Qrab
Mark
"Your name" <hemnosp...@noshawspam.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns94868703BF4F4he...@24.71.223.159...
> Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote in
> news:MPG.1a8c5a4ee...@news-server.woh.rr.com:
> <<snip>>
> > Like the info about fixing ragged brushes - but I do think you
> > should include more about the brush care with the bit about fixing
> > brushes. Two more brush care tips - one is cleaning them with a good
> > brush soap that cleans out the paint but doesn't strip out all the
> > beneficial oils in natural hair brushes (and even good synthetics). The
> > other tip that goes along with fixing ragged brushes is to use hair
> > conditioner. Mix up warm water and hair conditioner in a shallow
> > plastic tray and let the bristles soak in it for a while. (Folks -
> > don't just take a jar and stand the brushes in them bristles down - this
> > is part of the reason they get all ragged and splayed out in the first
> > place.) Once they've soaked for a bit - either leave the conditioner
> > in, and shape the brush and let it dry in pointed shape again (retrains
> > the bristles) or use a good brush cleaning soap and again leave a bit of
> > the soap in and let the brush dry. (Good brushes often come with a bit
> > of soap or gel in the bristles to help them keep their shape while
> > they're in the bin before being sold.) Simply wash the brush in warm
> > water again before using it next.
>
> Dang, have to get more brush soap...keep forgetting to pick some up...wish
> hobby shops would carry it but I'd hate to see the price GW would charge
> for it if they charge $7.00CAN for a bottle of super glue
>
<SNIP>
I could really do with some information about where to buy good, cheap
brushes for painting miniatures. Up till now I have been using GW brushes. I
have had problems with their fine detail brush, which I use for facial
detail and other fiddly bits. In my experience, it does tend to splay after
a small amount of use, and I end up having to point it before every
brushstroke. The brush cost Ł2 a go. If anyone knows of a good alternative I
would be grateful.
Mark
Andy O'Neill
news:c00fl2$89s$1...@oyez.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk...
<<>>> I could really do with some information about where to buy good, cheap
> brushes for painting miniatures.
Historex agents
Usually have an advert in the front of military modelling.
Do kolinsky sable reasonably cheap.
Andy O'Neill
news:MPG.1a8c5a4ee...@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> In article <deuUb.10692$%i5....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>,
<<>>
> I do think you
> should include more about the brush care with the bit about fixing
> brushes.
I think I prefer fabric conditioner to hair conditioner.
You get less hassle.
There's too little of my hair to be conditioning it.
Must take another look at my site.
Thought I put that sort of stuff in.
Although I'd have said just wash in regular soap and dip in fabric
conditioner.
<<>>
> > For wet blending I just go with speed.
>
> Yeah, but most people are oddly reluctant to practice blending
> prior to actually painting a mini with that technique. Unfortunately
> the key to speed is confidence and a bit of knowledge of the paint
> characteristics. I hear 'I don't want to waste paint' a lot as a reason
> not to practice on a test sheet. Simple answer - it wastes more time,
> effort, and paint to screw up a mini and have to redo it than it does to
> practice paint blending on a piece of disposable card before hand.
Just drawing the brush across a palette should give a fair idea how the
paint'll come off on a figure.
There's this nonsense about dabbing the brush on a damp rag some seem to
like.
I can't see how the trouble of having a damp rag there can outweigh the 1
minute of your life it takes to learn how to load a brush right.
For practice.....
I'd suggest get 2 metal figures.
One which has it's own stand and a big cape or whatever with big folds.
And.
A cutesy girl like out the old ral partha range with lots of fine folds in a
dress.
Pre-shade.
Try out your technique.
Lob em in a pan of boiling water.
Paint comes off.
Repeat.
<< Pre shading >>
> A lot of really skillful oil painters I've seen use the same type
> of techniques.
This is where it comes from.
I'm less talented than those really skillful guys so I use more like a sepia
scale with umber and black mix instead of grey.
Up to white.
Mid and hi-lights are more important than lo-lights.
Oil is a very forgiving medium.
I could never be arsed doing water-colour.
The guys paint 90 mil figures tend to use oils over acrylics.
> > I think one of the best products GW do is their new book on painting.
> >
> Ok, I'll bite - which book is that?
It's fairly new and costs 12 quid, don't actually own a copy so...
>Got a title and ISBN number
> or a link to it on GW's site?
Nope.
On CMON I'd particularly recommend anything by chrispy.
Some of the other articles aren't so hot.
Dr Faust's site is good as well.
Andy O'Neill
news:qrab-A381C0.1...@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
<<>>
> In addition to the advice given my Myrmidon and Andy, another prospect
> is to use a 'wet pallete'.
More trouble than it's worth, IMO.
Wet blotting paper or kitchen towel.
Stick in a plate or something.
Lob a piece of greaseproof paper on top.
Use as a palette.
The cost of the paper etc must approach what you save on paint though.
<shrug>
Mark
"Andy O'Neill" <aon14noc...@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:znQUb.4842$u47....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
Thanks for the information. I will pop down the newsagent and see if I can
find such a magazine.