[GW] Bring back the Squats!
Playa
Hey,
A new Citadel Space Dorf:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=5100027a
I'm not sure it's worth a WD sub to get one though.
Wait, no - I'm sure . . .
Pla - Greytchin - ya
Fin
Still resisting accrueing a Squat army off ebay.... Been close to
doing it a few times.
Seriously though, how hard is it to do a PDF codex or WD mini codex
and release mail order boxes of the old moulds. Charge a good whack
and roll in profit?
Fin
Matt C
72e8ff...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
I'm VERY sure.
Crap figure.
Richard Busby
> I'm not sure it's worth a WD sub to get one though.
> Wait, no - I'm sure . . .
No need to subscribe... just buy the Squ... er Space Dwarf.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=&prodId=prod450005a
Blackheart
because they just plain don't want to.
Caving in to your customers? that's apparently bad to GW.
Myrmidon
@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
Oh come on, GW knows everything, they're just waiting for the
right time to tell us...
Myr :)
--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."
-- Moramarth
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Blackheart
> In article <ed857728-eeec-4e09-a48d-72e8ff932a57
>
>
>
> > Hey,
>
> > A new Citadel Space Dorf:
>
> >http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=5100027a
>
> > I'm not sure it's worth a WD sub to get one though.
> > Wait, no - I'm sure . . .
>
> > Pla - Greytchin - ya
>
> Oh come on, GW knows everything, they're just waiting for the
> right time to tell us...
>
kinda like they're waiting for the "right time" to release the final
3rd of the 40K rules? you know.. 1/3 of the rules is in th big book.
1/3 is scattered through the codexes. The last 3rd? Who knows? maybe
it's in Jervis' "spirit of the game" or whatever he calls the GW Hive
Mind.
Playa
Hey,
On Nov 3, 7:17 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> GW knows everything, they're just waiting for the
> right time to tell us
Long story from the now-defunct Epic board shortened:
+++
(The) reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in
the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had
failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation.
From the name of the race ... through to the short bikers motif, we
had managed to turn ... a proud and noble race in Warhammer ... into a
joke race in 40K. We only fully realised what we had done when we were
working on the 2nd edition of 40K. Try as we might, we just couldn't
work up much enthusiasm ... we just couldn't figure out a way to
update them and get them to work that we felt was good enough. The
'art' of working on an army as a designer is to find the thing that
you think is cool and exciting about an army, and work it up into a
strong theme. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us, and so, rather than
bring out a second-rate product simply re-hashing the old background,
we kept doing other army books instead, with stuff we did feel
inspired by ... this led to a realisation that we were going to have
to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form ... there is a certain
predudice these days to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross
them over to 40K ... so it may be that the Squats/Demiurg end up
remaining a footnote.
- Jervis Johnson 28JUL04
+++
Pla - somebody make a drinking game out of this - ya
Doctor Rock
"Playa" <johnpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:772e0425-520e-46c1...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Hey,
On Nov 3, 7:17 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> GW knows everything, they're just waiting for the
> right time to tell us
Long story from the now-defunct Epic board shortened:
+++
(The) reason that the Squats were dropped was because the creatives in
the Studio (people like me, Rick, Andy C, Gav etc) felt that we had
failed to do the Dwarf 'archetype' justice in its 40K incarnation.
From the name of the race ... through to the short bikers motif, we
had managed to turn ... a proud and noble race in Warhammer ... into a
joke race in 40K.
=====
or just to introduce a more dialectical approach here, because i'm old
enough to remember: maybe it was actually that the squats comprised the only
40k race that WASN'T taken progressively MORE seriously between 1987-92.*
back when Rogue Trader was released, none of the "races" (or their
equivalents in WFB, for that matter) were portrayed with anything like the
dire earnestness JJ is trying to allude to here. in point of fact, most of
the humour WAS invested in stereotypes (and their occasional subversion).
squats weren't "turned into" anything; it's simply that 40K was initially a
very tentative venture of whose success GW was far from certain, and took a
couple years to find its feet. maybe the squats just got "left behind" in
comparison to the development the other races underwent.
in which case-- at least according to Jervis' logic as set out above-- it
was the CONCEPT of squats that was flawed from the get-go, because they
clearly failed to inspire studio authors/designers sufficiently.
* incidentally, i don't think this is true either; look at the development
that was done on them in Space Marine for evidence.
Insane Ranter
> "Playa" <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote in message
GoGo Squats live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Playa
Hey,
On Nov 4, 3:18 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> maybe it was actually that the squats comprised the only
> 40k race that WASN'T taken progressively MORE seriously between 1987-92.*
Seriously or not, Squats were taken NOWHERE.
JJ simply explains why nothing occurred: apathy.
That's what happened and why - there's no mystery.
> back when Rogue Trader was released, none of the "races" (or their
> equivalents in WFB, for that matter) were portrayed with anything like the
> dire earnestness JJ is trying to allude to here
Consider the earnestness with which JJ characterizes his JOB -
"Nothing could be done if even we 'creatives' were at a loss".
Now Google "Codex Squats"; it returns >100,000 hits.
> maybe the squats just got "left behind" in
> comparison to the development the other races underwent
There's no 'maybe'. As JJ explains:
Devs worked only on what they wanted.
No one wanted the Squat project, so it didn't get done.
> in which case-- at least according to Jervis' logic as set out above-- it
> was the CONCEPT of squats that was flawed
Ref the Google search above.
The 'concept' has inspired thousands.
It's just that none of them are GW employees.
Playa
Myrmidon
ea8a4a...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com
says...
that if the accountants were inspired, there'd DAMN WELL be some
inspired <ahem> designers to go with them. After all, GW is a company
'of gamers - for gamers'.
Myr
--
RGMW has always been brutally honest. It's probably why we're
considered the scum of the GW gaming community.
- Fog
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Christ...@web.de
> In article <2e552dd7-8e98-488b-86d3-
> ea8a4a9d7...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
Might sound strange today, but was it here on RGMW that I read aboout
squat boxes being given away for free at GW stores when they did not
sell properly? Today they would sell pretty well, so it's still a
mystery why they are not put back into production. On the other hand
who would really want the reincarnation of 4' beardy Space Marines as
long as there are 8' beardy Space Wolves?
Christof
Doctor Rock
>
>> in which case-- at least according to Jervis' logic as set out above-- it
>> was the CONCEPT of squats that was flawed
>
> Ref the Google search above.
> The 'concept' has inspired thousands.
> It's just that none of them are GW employees.
hence my citation of Jervis' logic. his argument is predicated on the
assertion that there was no "creative avenue" for squats, or at least not
one "unique" enough to make them viable.
it's proven false not only by the (many) external sources you mention above,
but also by *the studio's own work* on Ork & Squat Warlords. squats were,
in fact, developed into an "unique" and self-contained army... in Space
Marine.
(i do agree with him is that retaining the name "squat" post-RT was a bad
call. it just gives me the impression that Rick Priestley couldn't come up
a good name for "space dwarfs" in 1985, and picked up a thesaurus instead--
which is always a bad idea).
Doctor Rock
<Christ...@web.de> wrote in message
news:a1f1bc8d-d4a7-43d6...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
======
that is, indeed, the legitimate objection to latter-day development of
squats-- the fact that the whole "nordic" theme was cornered by the Space
Wolves in 1991.
but really, that only serves to prove my point: if, having recognised that,
they couldn't come up with any OTHER basis from the background for a squat
"theme", what does that say about the levels of "creativity" to which JJ
refers?
Christ...@web.de
> <Christof_B...@web.de> wrote in message
t4 high leadership with heavy armour/weapons, axes and some tanks?
Space Wolves with the leman russ tank stil included are pretty much a
squat army list. I guess that the lack in creativity had a lot to do
with the question how to really make them different to Spacemarines
(more than just chapter special rules). But then they released
necrons...
>
> but really, that only serves to prove my point: if, having recognised that,
> they couldn't come up with any OTHER basis from the background for a squat
> "theme", what does that say about the levels of "creativity" to which JJ
> refers?
I'm still think they just didn't want to continue the space dwarf
miniature line. Otherwise they would have done so without any
creativity copying whatever space dwarf background/design they can
find as they still do with other armies today.
Christof
Blackheart
> In article <2e552dd7-8e98-488b-86d3-
> ea8a4a9d7...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
see Brad.. that's the problem we all know that is just plain not true.
in fact, I think if you go back and look at things, The designers
(especially Priestly and Jervis) stopped being inspired about the
games around about the time that they lost control of GW as a company.
I might be wrong.. but I don't think I am...
Blackheart
1) GW does not want to admit they were wrong.
2) GW does not want to admit we were right.
3) GW does not want to expand the army list (beyond MOAR MARIENZ
HURR!)
4) if there had never been Squats before and they put them out now
with all of that Crazy huge stuff they had in epic as FW pieces,
things would be alot different.
Playa
Hey,
On Nov 4, 12:26 pm, Blackheart <blackheart666_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 4, 7:16 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <2e552dd7-8e98-488b-86d3-
> > ea8a4a9d7...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
> > says...
> > > On Nov 4, 3:18 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > according to Jervis' logic as set out above-- it
> > > > was the CONCEPT of squats that was flawed
> > > The 'concept' has inspired thousands.
> > > It's just that none of them are GW employees.
> > Correction - none of them are GW accountants. I can gaurantee
> > that if the accountants were inspired, there'd DAMN WELL be some
> > inspired <ahem> designers
> that is just plain not true
Untrue *because* Bean Counters merely set Development's budget.
They're unqualified to set its agenda - or productivity standards.
Mr. Johnson now supervises those particular areas.
Everyone's okay with how that's worked-out so far . . .
> Priestly and Jervis) stopped being inspired about the
> games around about the time that they lost control of GW
Rick's original vision for RT was Space Fleet/ BFG-ish.
He was grudgingly talked into helping with "FB in Spaaace".
Priestly has stated that a 40k army then comprised @12 models.
In '87, the idea that The Hobby would cost kids >US$50 was 'silly'.
Lack of a viable $500 model line now makes Squats 'silly'.
Ref: those 'silly' Big Hats.
Playa
Insane Ranter
> In article <2e552dd7-8e98-488b-86d3-
> ea8a4a9d7...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
Correction GW is a company of gamers - for lining their pocketbooks
from gamers"
Playa
Hey,
On Nov 4, 2:08 am, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pla - somebody make a drinking game out of this - ya
Easy Rules:
1. Pick a drink, pick a film you can quote to mock bad writing.
2. Drink until you run out of any two of the above.
The film I chose was Full Metal Jacket.
Beverage is Molson Golden Ale
Aaand ... begin!
The ... reason that the [Brotherhood] Squats were dropped was because
the creatives in the Studio [Divine Worship is at 0800] (people like
me [you think you're Mickey Spillane?], Rick, Andy C, Gav [Vanish,
Joker - mos' ricky-tick] etc) felt that we had failed [here you are
all equally worthless] to do the Dwarf 'archetype' [one piece and
short] justice in its 40K incarnation [that's Confirmed]. From the
name of the race [it ain't 'too-goddam-beaucoup'] ... through to the
short bikers motif [there's definitely something wrong with that], we
had managed to turn [these people we wasted here today] ... a proud
and noble race in Warhammer [the finest human beings we will ever
know] ... into a [not even in-country] joke race in 40K. We [the phony
tough and the crazy brave] only fully realised what we had done [dick]
when we were working on the 2nd [Mary Jane Rottencrotch] edition of
40K. Try as we might, we [pukes] just couldn't work up much enthusiasm
[me love you too much] ... we [unorganized grabasstic pieces of
amphibian shit] just couldn't figure out a way [not having anyone
around that's worth shooting] to update them and get them [at 0930] to
work that we [non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve] felt was
good enough [for ten dollars]. The 'art' of working [my thoughts drift
back] on an army [good for me, good for you] as a designer [he's silly
and he's ignorant] is to find [a JELLY DOUGHNUT!] the thing that you
think is cool [poontang] and exciting [sucking buttermilk] about an
army [stimulating people of an ancient culture], and work it up into a
strong theme [kill them]. This 'muse' didn't strike any of us [don't
lead 'em so much], and so, rather than bring out a second-rate product
[wipe that stupid-looking grin off your face] simply re-hashing the
old background [something that you do well], we kept doing [everyt'ing
you wan'] other army books instead, with stuff we [learn by the
numbers] did feel inspired by [your hard-earned money] ... this led to
a realisation that we were [jerkin' off ten times a day] going to have
to drop the Squats in their 'Squat' form [Five dollars is all my Mom
allows me to spend] ... there is a certain predudice these days [the
Jungian thing] to simply taking races from Warhammer and cross them
over to 40K [remember this was all just a bad dream] ... so it may be
that the Squats/Demiurg end up remaining a footnote [The dead know
only one thing: it is better to be alive].
- Jervis Johnson, Epic board 2004
- [Stanley Kubrick, FMJ 1987]
Pla - hammered - ya
Insane Ranter
Run boys and girls!!!! Its the wall of text monster. Man the paragraph
and period guns!! Wait till you can see the white of its beady little
eyes!!
FIRE!
Spack
"Richard Busby" <rich...@hatespam.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:hcpc23$dfc$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
And how do you manage that without an "Add to Cart" button on the page? You
ring one of the phone numbers in the description, who will ask for your WD
subscription details before allowing you to purchase it ...
Matt C
69.16.176.253:
On the other hand, I just walked into GW Liverpool and bought one off the
shelf, no questions asked.
In the cupboard til it's OOP and then on Ebay.