Painting help???
Richard Petrin
all the GW painting guides, but I feel they leave a lot to be desired
when they talk about certain items. Like...
1) I have been working with inks, but when I do an ink wash over a
base coat I normally end up with the ink drying in splotches and just
dulling the base coat. The ink also seems to stay on the high points
instead of flowing into the crevices. Can anyone give me their input
on how best to get the coroners and crevices dark using ink or a paint
wash?
2) I have tried to subtly change colors along say a sword's length,
but I always end up with definite delimiters between the color mixes.
Can anyone give me their ideas on how to smoothly blend the colors so
they look like they are gradually changing?
I guess that is it for now. Any help is appreciated. For info I offer
the following. I use Citadel paints and inks almost exclusively. My
thinning formula is warm water with a touch of dish washing liquid in
it.
Please post answers in a slow step-by-step fashion. Assume I am an
idiot and please don't leave out steps. Don't just tell me to blend
the colors, try and give me a good idea of how YOU blend the colors to
get smooth textures. Thanx in advance
RPe...@Interserv.com
Acid spray
>base coat I normally end up with the ink drying in splotches and just
>dulling the base coat. The ink also seems to stay on the high points
>instead of flowing into the crevices. Can anyone give me their input
>on how best to get the coroners and crevices dark using ink or a paint
>wash?
Consistancy, consistancy, consistancy...... Try this, pre wet the area
to be inked with water. Make sure to use a brush with some firmness in it
bristles. you have to get the water into all the cracks an crevices
(chainmail being REALLY hard to get it inbetween the links). The figure
should be as if you dunked it.. but as if you have just base coated that
area with paint. Now take some ink, and with just a little on the brush,
touch the area to be inked, the ink should look like its getting SUCKED
out of the bristles and onto the model. The pre wetting one thins down the
ink a bit, and two helps the ink get into the dents.
>2) I have tried to subtly change colors along say a sword's length,
>but I always end up with definite delimiters between the color mixes.
>Can anyone give me their ideas on how to smoothly blend the colors so
>they look like they are gradually changing?
Blends aren't easy for beginers, and aren't easy to describe. The best way
I know for beginers to get blends down is to Dry brush. It takes some
practice, but the biggest trick is to have almost NO PAINT on the brush
(thats why its called dry brushing). If you want the subtle blends you
have to spend some time on them. Working from dark to light, one would
paint the darker of the to be blended colors first, then paint just the
tip of the other end with the other color (you might have to under coat it
with white, if its a really dark color, or work light to dark). Then comes
the dry brushing. with almost no paint on the brush, you lightly swipe the
brush back and forth over the area, starting at the second colors end and
working towards the first colors. As you go across, because you are
leaving some paint behind, the amount of paint your putting down should be
getting almost inpercievable. Thats how it works.. Practice it on a piece
of scrap thats been spray primered. If you can't paint it on the scrap,
you probably won't be able to do it on the model. If the brush has been
wiped off on a paper towel properly, you should be able to lightly stroke
it over you finger and only paint the tops of you finger prints..
Hope this helps
Isaac Tobin
>From: RPe...@ix.netcom.com (Richard Petrin)
>Subject: Painting help???
>Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:46:55 GMT
>I have a few questions about painting the miniatures. I have bought
>all the GW painting guides, but I feel they leave a lot to be desired
>when they talk about certain items. Like...
>1) I have been working with inks, but when I do an ink wash over a
>base coat I normally end up with the ink drying in splotches and just
>dulling the base coat. The ink also seems to stay on the high points
>instead of flowing into the crevices. Can anyone give me their input
>on how best to get the coroners and crevices dark using ink or a paint
>wash?
Thin the ink some more. And when your done, if it still is on the high points,
gently rub the with either you rfinger or some kleenex.
>2) I have tried to subtly change colors along say a sword's
length,>but I always end up with definite delimiters between the color mixes.
>Can anyone give me their ideas on how to smoothly blend the colors so
>they look like they are gradually changing?
When you paint on a band of color, dont just leave it. Take another slightly
damp brush, and pull the paint away to the tip of the sword. You can also use
the above rubbing technique.
>I guess that is it for now. Any help is appreciated. For info I offer
>the following. I use Citadel paints and inks almost exclusively. My
>thinning formula is warm water with a touch of dish washing liquid in
>it.
>Please post answers in a slow step-by-step fashion. Assume I am an
>idiot and please don't leave out steps. Don't just tell me to blend
>the colors, try and give me a good idea of how YOU blend the colors to
>get smooth textures. Thanx in advance
>RPe...@Interserv.com
-Isaac (is...@aloha.com)
http://www.aloha.com/~isaac/ plus one of the following:
My homepage = nothing needed WH40K=wh40k.htm
Tobin Graphics=tg.htm Necromunda=necro.htm
"I see it---coming here---hell-wind---titan blur---black wings---Yog-Sothoth save me---the three-lobed burning eye. . . ."
P. Ullrich
> base coat I normally end up with the ink drying in splotches and just
> dulling the base coat. The ink also seems to stay on the high points
> instead of flowing into the crevices. Can anyone give me their input
> on how best to get the coroners and crevices dark using ink or a paint
> wash?
One thing to try is what M. McVey called "splotching" in one of the
recent WDs. You don't put very much wash onto the figure. You coat the
end of your brush with ink, and dab (or splotch) it on. You can
experiment with the amount of paint until you get the effect you want.
It may also have somehting to do with your basecoat, some types of paint
don't handle washes very well. Seems to me that GW paints handle washes
well. One way to get the crevices dark is to prime the figure black and
paint or drybrush the corners, raised edges while leaving the crevices
black, or some other dark color.
> 2) I have tried to subtly change colors along say a sword's length,
> but I always end up with definite delimiters between the color mixes.
> Can anyone give me their ideas on how to smoothly blend the colors so
> they look like they are gradually changing?
Lot of ways to do this. One easy way is to paint the sword a very dark
version of the main color, then dry brush on a lighter shade of the
color, but don't cover the entire surface of the swrod, let some of the
first dark color show. Then mix an even lighter shade, and drybrush that
on, but don't put on as much as the previous colors., continue with these
increasingly lighter shades as much as you want, always putting lesspaint
on than you did in the last coat. You can also do this w/o drybrushing,
just by painting a lighter shade on, mixing an even lighter shade,
painting it on, etc., etc.
> I guess that is it for now. Any help is appreciated. For info I offer
> the following. I use Citadel paints and inks almost exclusively. My
> thinning formula is warm water with a touch of dish washing liquid in
> it.
I've never used a thinning formula.
Phil
S94
Inking - you thin your inks with warm water and a touch of _dish
washing liquid_? Not quite sure exactly where you got that idea from,
or what purpose it's for, but I suspect that may be a source of part
of your problem of the ink drying in splodges. Ok, here's how I'd do
some inking. The first thing to realise is that there are two ways
of inking - you can glaze or you can ink. Glazing is where you apply
a complete ink coat over an already painted bit. This brings out a
depth and feel that is superior to just putting the paint on. Here's
a good example - undercoat your miniature, then paint red gore onto
part of it. I'll use Gobbla (Skarsnik's giant Squig) as an example,
but it applies to anything. I gave him a coat of red all over to
start with. (I happen to like red). Red Gore is a good bright red,
much better than Blood Red, but it may have changed its name now!
Anyway, I've not got a nice red coat. Now, I take my Plasma Red ink,
it might be called just Red now, and dip my brush in and simply paint
all over the red gore. You will see a clear difference when it is
dry and you will be able to see which bits you haven't done yet.
The red glaze gives it a depth and color unlike a standard paint.
It's probably worth re-capping at this point on what I use when
painting:
1. An area to paint with. I use an area about 50cm by 50cm at most.
I keep my paints nearby, and have a few models in this area so I
can concentrate on these.
2. A good light source. Daylight is probably best, but I, like many
others, have little time so paint at night (I happen to like this
way anyway) so have a good 100W adjustable lamp.
3. A pot of water which I clean regularly. By this I mean I clean it
after I've finished painting for the night (or day!) and empty it
out. Use fresh water each session, and clean every now and then
whilst painting, especially if using light colors (eg: yellow,
which is very prone to discolouring).
So, Glazing is:
Applying a coat of ink over a base coat.
But it's not just that! Remember to give a good coat of ink, just like
you were painting with normal acrylics, and you may want to use more
than one glaze - the more glazes, the more the colours stand out (up
to a point of course!). Try out a glaze on a simple model.
Ok, so you've got the idea, so we can move on to washes. Washes are a
very simple way of getting effective looking models without doing much,
like drybrushing. I suspect that the washes you've been applying that
have been drying in patches have been over flat areas - washes are _not_
good at this - they are better at areas which are not flat, eg: hair,
beards, contoured surfaces (faces), etc.
Point 1: I rarely mix up portions of ink with water to thin them down.
Why? Because it is rare to use a lot of ink and you can far too easily
thin the inks down too much! They are already pretty thin as it is!
So, how do I wash my models then? I dip my brush into the lid of the
ink pot (you know, the lid you open has a little bit which will have
ink in it) and then I dip my brush once into my water pot. Then I
apply the ink onto the model where I want to wash it. It is important
to note that it is not necessary even to thin them down - let's take
a few examples:
The dwarf from Advanced Heroquest (or just about any dwarf for that
matter) - I did his beard by first painting with a bronzed flesh
color, and then I took some Chaos Black, mixed it with some water
and applied it as a wash.
Point: You do not _have_ to use inks to wash!
I would probably nowadays (since I'm more experienced) use Black Ink
(unthinned, not much on the brush, fine brush) to first put the ink
in the crevasses in his beard. The black may look very dark indeed.
Point: Inks, especially darker ones, can look very different when dry!
Then, I'd get brown ink, dip my brush in water once or twice and
apply over the beard itself to give the beard a brownish-look. The
black gives the impression of depth behind the beard. Hmm, cunning!
Point: Experimentation is the key here! Use small amounts of ink at
first, dip lightly into water to thin down. As your confidence
grows you can alter how you do it.
Another example I think. I'll use a Minotaur Lord I did (a very
striking model, done with very few colors) a while ago. I first
undercoated him in Bestial Brown to give a good solid brown feral
feel to him. This was the darkest brown I had, but I wanted it to
be darker, a more sinister, menacing look was needed. So, I got
out the brown ink, paused, and then put it back. No, brown wasn't
right here - I wanted to make the black darker, not enhance it's
feel and depth.
Point: The same/similar colour ink over a paint coat will enhance
that color's depth and feel, but not change the color itself.
I got out the trusty black (I paint a lot of Skeletons) and thought
again about the watering down and the washing.
Point: Take time with your models. Don't just put the paint on if
you think it'll go, think before you do it. Stand back if you
want to, walk around and take another look at it.
I decided that I'm going to need a bit of washing here so got out
my mixing tray (well, an old blister pack plastic bit) and put a
couple of bits of ink in it using my biggest brush. Then I added
some water and tried the effect out on a piece of wood that I use
to put my models on when I'm painting. (Anything'll do for this -
newspaper whatever) It was too dark so I lightened it a bit more
with some more water. Perfect. Now, I appplied it to the model,
starting from the top, tracing my brush along the contours of the
model, keeping it at the deepest part of the model's muscles (my
this minotaur's got big shoulders!). Ok, first bit done now, so
take a breath, pause, and let that ink dry a bit.
Right, next step. The main areas still looked very light, and
I wanted them darker so, having done quite a bit of the deep bits
I got some of the thinned ink, dipped it in water to thin it even
more and then applied it over the entire brown bits. The highly
thinned ink flowed everywhere, and was beginning to show that
tendency to dry unevenly. Solution - first quickly dry my brush,
and then use it to 'move' the still-drying ink that wasn't drying
evenly into the depths or anywhere where it would look good as
opposed to the crap look I was getting. Right, having done that,
I waited for the model to dry, dried my brush, and got some more
of the thinned ink. This time I very carefully dipped the very
end into the water to thin it just that little bit more and then
applied it over the model. Perfect this time.
Ok, finished? No, get some ink (unthinned) and apply it very
carefully into the very deepest contours (inbetween his fingers
in his clenched fist for example). Right, now I drybrushed his
mane (?) on his back and painted the studs he had silver. Result:
one cool model.
Ok, got all that? Hopefully you've tried your hand at glazing,
got the idea and have had a go at washing. The real trick is to
take your time very slowly. Don't try and do lots of things at
once - have a go at glazing, and then try washes. But when
doing washes, start with just the ink alone to work the depths
of the model using small amounts. Get used to the way the ink
flows, and how it dries and the color it gives. Note that you
can turn a model upside down if you want the ink to run that
way! With me so far? Congrats for staying with me till now.
Onto blending, but first, take a break, get a cup of tea or
whatever and have a rest for a bit. This is important.
Blending
Blending is a very subtle technique used over very small areas.
The results you get beat any other technique though it is a
difficult thing to master. The 'sword with a burst of color over
it' is a favourite for blending and will remain so. Capes, etc
are all good subjects for this technique as is, in fact, basically
anything. Here's how you do it. Note that I've not mastered
blending yet, and, since I've not painted for a while, am getting
back into things slowly. Blending at first will produce very poor
looking results, and can take a while to master. So here we go:
First off, put your base coat on, starting with the lightest color
of the graduation (eg from red to orange/yellow I'd put on yellow
or orange). Reason: you don't want to discolor your later colors.
Unless, of course, you want that type of effect (eg green over
Chaos Black gives a darker green, but yellow and reds I find are
difficult to put on over black, if at all, without making a mess).
Let's take a plain sword, going from yellow (at tip) to red. There
are two ways of doing this:
1. Paint your bands of color on, blending the paints whilst wet to
form graduations.
2. Paint very very small bands, lightened/colored as appropriate.
Let's deal with case 1:
I'll put on a bit of yellow at the tip, now with a tiny bit of a
yellow/orange mix, I add this to the end of the yellow bit whilst
it is still wet, blending very carefully the two together to get
a gradual tint. The other end of the orange/yellow mix I paint
down the sword. This gives a yellow tip which goes into a yellow/
orange mix gradually. By blending I mean mix the two paints
together, a little way down from the actual point where you want
the blend to be and then make the mix slow down. This is rather
difficult to describe, and watching someone is much easier!
This is then repeated down the sword. Eg: Next I might use a
yellow/orange mix with a greater degree of orange. etc.
Case 2 takes far more time:
You paint a very small band of yellow at the tip. Now make a mix
of yellow/orange, which is slightly different to the yellow and
paint that next to it. Increase the orange mix each time. This
gives a nice transition, but you must make very small bands each
time. This is very difficult.
That's about all I can help with. The best thing to do is to watch
people and experiment. Hope I've helped.
gaz
Kenneth Creta
>I have a few questions about painting the miniatures. I have bought
>all the GW painting guides, but I feel they leave a lot to be desired
>when they talk about certain items. Like...
>
>base coat I normally end up with the ink drying in splotches and just
>dulling the base coat. The ink also seems to stay on the high points
>instead of flowing into the crevices. Can anyone give me their input
>on how best to get the coroners and crevices dark using ink or a paint
>wash?
What I do is ink as you say. I then go BACK with the base coat over all but the
crevasses. Looks really good.
>
>2) I have tried to subtly change colors along say a sword's length,
>but I always end up with definite delimiters between the color mixes.
>Can anyone give me their ideas on how to smoothly blend the colors so
>they look like they are gradually changing?
Use what's called Extender (Crafts shop). It keeps you acrylics from drying so
fast. So paint on the first color (say black). then paint on the second part (say
red). There is a definite delimiter as you say but as long as the paint is still
wet, you're good. Now clean off your brush and leave it a little wet and blend the
two wet colors together. Works like a charm. Same technique without Extender but
you have to work MUCH faster.
If I wasn't clear enough (been known to happen :) email me back.
Ken
P. Ullrich
> >they look like they are gradually changing?
> Use what's called Extender (Crafts shop). It keeps you acrylics from drying so
> fast. So paint on the first color (say black). then paint on the second part (say
Mixing in plain water will also keep paints from drying fast.
Phil
Conrad Edward John Gonsalves
>I have a few questions about painting the miniatures. I have bought
>all the GW painting guides, but I feel they leave a lot to be desired
>when they talk about certain items. Like...
>1) I have been working with inks, but when I do an ink wash over a
>base coat I normally end up with the ink drying in splotches and just
>dulling the base coat. The ink also seems to stay on the high points
>instead of flowing into the crevices. Can anyone give me their input
>on how best to get the coroners and crevices dark using ink or a paint
>wash?
>2) I have tried to subtly change colors along say a sword's length,
>but I always end up with definite delimiters between the color mixes.
>Can anyone give me their ideas on how to smoothly blend the colors so
>they look like they are gradually changing?
I think the key to all the painting probs you have are how much you
water down the colours - don't use the colours straight from the pot
or container as they will not spread easily.
COnrad
>I guess that is it for now. Any help is appreciated. For info I offer
>the following. I use Citadel paints and inks almost exclusively. My
>thinning formula is warm water with a touch of dish washing liquid in
>it.
>Please post answers in a slow step-by-step fashion. Assume I am an