ok... gather around kids... the story of the studio and the squats....
Darth Blackheart
Trader Compendium RIGHT???) at the Squat army list, you'll notice that
the list is credited to 3 people.
Those three people are Brian Ansell, Nigel Stillman and Graeme Davis.
now... where are those 3 people these days? none of them work for GW
anymore. Still is still vaguely associatd with Foundry and Warhammer
Ancient Battles.
But what happened to Ansell?
and what happened to Graeme Davis?
anyway... the story i've always heard is that one of the people that
was involved in writing that army (probably Graeme Davis) left the
studio on bad terms with Andy and Jervis and since the Squats was that
guys "pet army" (alot like the Eldar are Gav's pet army), Andy and
Jervis thought that it would be cool to stick it to that guy by
dropping his army from the game.
and that makes alot more sense to me than "we can't find a good idea
for the army"... not having a good idea didn't stop them from putting
out NeKorns, Battle Bitches and the "Anime Project"... putting Gav in
charge of anything was -definitely- not a good idea and they still did
it.. Letting Fat Bloke spill the beans about them fixing the
Armageddon campaign wasn't a good idea and they still did it...
let's see.... what other "not good ideas" have they had?
Blackheart
---------------------------
"We've inadvertently arrived back in the early 21st century over a place
called Afghanistan, captain." - Leonard Nimmoy
"Really? How we doin' for photon torpedoes?" - William Shatner (from the ST
episode: This Is How We Do It Downtown)
OrpheusITU
news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
<snip>
> and that makes alot more sense to me than "we can't find a good idea
> for the army"... not having a good idea didn't stop them from putting
> out NeKorns, Battle Bitches and the "Anime Project"... putting Gav in
> charge of anything was -definitely- not a good idea and they still did
> it.. Letting Fat Bloke spill the beans about them fixing the
> Armageddon campaign wasn't a good idea and they still did it...
Don't you be talkin' bad about my Bolter Bitches~!
--
OrpheusITU (Needs more Dom Nuns in his life)
Vombatus Ursinus Newbius
Questionably blessed by the RGMW Form Flame. Thanks, all~!
"Dingos aren't very snuggly, and their fur is too wiry. Wombats are much
better company on a lonely night..." -Kurt (RGMW outtake)
Darth Blackheart
<wmatth...@qwest.net> wrote:
>"Darth Blackheart" <blackh...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
>
><snip>
>
>> and that makes alot more sense to me than "we can't find a good idea
>> for the army"... not having a good idea didn't stop them from putting
>> out NeKorns, Battle Bitches and the "Anime Project"... putting Gav in
>> charge of anything was -definitely- not a good idea and they still did
>> it.. Letting Fat Bloke spill the beans about them fixing the
>> Armageddon campaign wasn't a good idea and they still did it...
>
>Don't you be talkin' bad about my Bolter Bitches~!
ugh... that whole "Bad Girl" thing is sooo 5 years ago...
Old Bear
"OrpheusITU" <wmatth...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:6gCx7.20$fo3....@news.uswest.net...
> "Darth Blackheart" <blackh...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
>
> <snip>
>
> > and that makes alot more sense to me than "we can't find a good idea
> > for the army"... not having a good idea didn't stop them from putting
> > out NeKorns, Battle Bitches and the "Anime Project"... putting Gav in
> > charge of anything was -definitely- not a good idea and they still did
> > it.. Letting Fat Bloke spill the beans about them fixing the
> > Armageddon campaign wasn't a good idea and they still did it...
>
> Don't you be talkin' bad about my Bolter Bitches~!
The only thing they are good for is the occasional Black Legion slapper...
--
Old Bear
"Make *this* so, Mr Chekov!" - William Shatner
P Bowles
writes:
>But what happened to Ansell?
>
>and what happened to Graeme Davis?
And did it happen before Titan Legions was released? If so, it is irrelevant as
Squats still had support until later than that.
>anyway... the story i've always heard is that one of the people that
>was involved in writing that army (probably Graeme Davis) left the
>studio on bad terms with Andy and Jervis and since the Squats was that
>guys "pet army" (alot like the Eldar are Gav's pet army), Andy and
>Jervis thought that it would be cool to stick it to that guy by
>dropping his army from the game.
So, if Gav left on bad terms would you expect them to drop the Eldar? Of course
not. I wouldn't put it past the Studio to act with a certain degree of
childishness, but that isn't the whole story by any means. You can argue about
the reasons, but it is simple fact that Squats didn't sell. The minimal fluff
was entirely derived from generic fantasy Dwarfs (not even specifically WFB
Dwarfs), the 40K range was ugly and ruleswise the army lacked troop selections
or a distinctive playing style compared with, say, the Orks. Perhaps bad
relations with a designer of the original army prompted the powers that be to
shelve the Squat project, but quite simply the entire concept - fluff, model
range and army theme - needed a complete rethink and if the only people at the
Studio with an interest in taking on that large a workload for the army's
benefit had left, it makes sense that the army would be dropped regardless of
Andy's or Jervis's feelings towards him.
>and that makes alot more sense to me than "we can't find a good idea
>for the army"... not having a good idea didn't stop them from putting
>out NeKorns, Battle Bitches and the "Anime Project"... putting Gav in
>charge of anything was -definitely- not a good idea and they still did
>it..
GW is hardly the only company in the world which likes to throw untested new
ideas around to see if there's a market. From their perspective, it's perfectly
logical - until they've tried releasing robots, Transformers or women with guns
they won't know that they aren't wanted, and in any case these products have a
history of being popular with certain audiences. What they do know is that
there is no appreciable market for Squats, and in order to change that they'd
need to put as much work into reinventing a dead army as they would into
inventing an all-new army, with the Squats' past making them an apparently less
viable candidate than the all-new Transformers.
>let's see.... what other "not good ideas" have they had?
Squats...
Philip Bowles
Darth Blackheart
and there's more people here that would call that statement bullocks
than ones that would agree with you...
so kindly get stuffed Phil...
Portia_EH
Thanks, Blackheart.
Courtesy of the Porsh'ster, you can have a freebie next time you're in the
Washington (Northwest, US) area. You're the man.
--
/ ========
"Sometimes you've just got to lift up the horse's tail
and stare the problem right in the face." -Lloyd Bingham
======== /
-EH (remove "no2spam~" for reply address)
Darth Blackheart
<ehou...@no2spamzipperint.com> wrote:
>Darth Blackheart <blackh...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
>[snip]
>
>Thanks, Blackheart.
>
>Courtesy of the Porsh'ster, you can have a freebie next time you're in the
>Washington (Northwest, US) area. You're the man.
>
thanks... feel free to light up PBowles for his statements elsewhere
in this thread...
Sick Jimi
What a load of rot!!
Jimi
FREE 40k card scenery - http://www.crosswinds.net/~astronomican/
40k3 - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/40k3/
40k Fluff - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/40k_fluff/
Astartes - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adeptus_astartes/
Grey Knights - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/greyknightchapter/
GW Design Rules - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gw-dr/
Imperial Guard - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imperial-guard/
Sons Of Russ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sons-of-russ/
Unforgiven - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unforgiven/
incrdbil
<ji...@astronomican.fsworld.co.uk> wrote:
>> but it is simple fact that Squats didn't sell.
>
>What a load of rot!!
>
Well let's see, did they get a chance in 2e? No fluff was pushed, no
dex made, no new miniatures--it's a sorta guarantee they won't do
well. Don't push the line, the line doesn't sell well. People ask why
the line was discontinued and isn't being pushed, they cite the lack
of sales.
Heck, they ar least tossed a bone to Harlequins in the codex--the
absolute refusal to do so for squats (or use one of the many fan
lists) sounds a bit like petty payback to me.
incrdbil
Jim M
news:9q786c$ck5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > but it is simple fact that Squats didn't sell.
>
> What a load of rot!!
>
I chose to build a fantasy army of Dwarfs in 1988 & 89, because I didn't
want to have to go on a waiting list for the squat miniatures as they came
out. For an army that didn't sell they sure were snapped up quickly...
--
Jim M
j...@hnjcomics.com
http://www.hnjcomics.com
#4 of the sacred 115
Wearer of Green Hat #23
Scott Michaels
<ehou...@no2spamzipperint.com> wrote:
>Darth Blackheart <blackh...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
>[snip]
>
>Thanks, Blackheart.
>
>Courtesy of the Porsh'ster, you can have a freebie next time you're in the
>Washington (Northwest, US) area. You're the man.
Man, is that a wide-open statement. The comeback is just so obvious I
won't do it. rotflmfao
Scott Michaels
Doctor Faust
> now... where are those 3 people these days? none of them work for GW
> anymore. Still is still vaguely associatd with Foundry and Warhammer
> Ancient Battles.
>
> But what happened to Ansell?
He owns Foundry.
Doctor Faust
www.paintingclinic.com
Sick Jimi
No, but that doesnt mean the figures didnt sell - I know of a number of
opponents who still have squat armies. And I know of several people on the
Net who have them too.
Saying Squats dont sell is belittling the players who spent mucho money on
them - as an ex-Squat player, I paid a fair penny for my 3k Squat army from
GW and only sold it to concentrate on my SW/IG collections.
> Heck, they ar least tossed a bone to Harlequins in the codex--the
> absolute refusal to do so for squats (or use one of the many fan
> lists) sounds a bit like petty payback to me.
Exactly.
Sick Jimi
that
> I chose to build a fantasy army of Dwarfs in 1988 & 89, because I didn't
> want to have to go on a waiting list for the squat miniatures as they came
> out. For an army that didn't sell they sure were snapped up quickly...
Want me to scan in the Squat miniature adverts from WD??
Portia_EH
news:oqaestcu0tr7sfnjr...@4ax.com...
>
> Man, is that a wide-open statement. The comeback is just so obvious I
> won't do it. rotflmfao
>
hehehe. :)
I intended to show him my opening. Er, the opening in the post -- as part
of the thanks.
Jim M
--
Jim M
j...@hnjcomics.com
http://www.hnjcomics.com
#4 of the sacred 115
Wearer of Green Hat #23
"Sick Jimi" <ji...@astronomican.fsworld.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9q7bnc$jlg$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
John Hwang
>> Well let's see, did they get a chance in 2e?
>
>No, but that doesnt mean the figures didnt sell - I know of a number of
>opponents who still have squat armies. And I know of several people on the
>Net who have them too.
>
>Saying Squats dont sell is belittling the players who spent mucho money on
>them - as an ex-Squat player, I paid a fair penny for my 3k Squat army from
>GW and only sold it to concentrate on my SW/IG collections.
As Jervis and GW have clearly stated, there's nothing wrong with playing Squats
"treat as" IG or Orks or whatever. Using Squats as IG is no different than the
guys who make armies of puppets or winged fey or whatever.
>> Heck, they ar least tossed a bone to Harlequins in the codex--the
>> absolute refusal to do so for squats (or use one of the many fan
>> lists) sounds a bit like petty payback to me.
>
>Exactly.
No. There's a *huge* difference.
Harlies are *great* models, and so 'Eavy Metal has a great time painting them,
gets excellent results, and has no problem supporting them for sale.
Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
Squats will stay in the dustbin.
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Jim M
news:20011012153214...@mb-fr.news.cs.com...
day and would probably spend a great deal of time and money collecting them
if they were still supported...as it is when ever I see them I usually pick
them up...but refuse to pay the online auction prices for them...
Old Bear
"Jim M" <j...@hnjcomics.com> wrote in message
news:#Oa8i41UBHA.2140@cpimsnntpa02...
I'd certainly collect Squats if they came back.
Sick Jimi
Squats
> "treat as" IG or Orks or whatever. Using Squats as IG is no different
than the
> guys who make armies of puppets or winged fey or whatever.
Thats a shitty cop-out from GW and you know it. I wonder if people's
attitude would be different if GW said go and use the IG list to play Dark
Eldar??
> Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted.
Thus
> Squats will stay in the dustbin.
Does that mean the guys who paid hard-earned cash for their squat models
will get a refund?? Somehow I doubt it.
Jimi, has a big dislike for the squat enema routine from GW
Mario Tambay
then? or Since the squats are no longer bringing money to GW, what is to
prevent anyone from casting his own? The IP laws are meant to protect
from loss of revenue. Since they don't have any what objection do they
have?
Can anyone who has connections put the buzz in Foundry's ear on this?
Mario.
Vampy
news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
> anyway... the story i've always heard is that one of the people that
> was involved in writing that army (probably Graeme Davis) left the
> studio on bad terms with Andy and Jervis and since the Squats was that
> guys "pet army" (alot like the Eldar are Gav's pet army), Andy and
> Jervis thought that it would be cool to stick it to that guy by
> dropping his army from the game.
I've heard a lot of talk in the past about GW having some kind of beef with
Ansell, don't know the story to that though. Maybe they're pissed he sold
out.
Jim M
"Mario Tambay" <mta...@mtroyal.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:3BC76F6D...@mtroyal.ab.ca...
> Okay, I'll bite. What is to prevent Foundry from making a Squat range
> then? or Since the squats are no longer bringing money to GW, what is to
> prevent anyone from casting his own? The IP laws are meant to protect
> from loss of revenue. Since they don't have any what objection do they
> have?
>
> Can anyone who has connections put the buzz in Foundry's ear on this?
>
to anyone that tried...Plus all they have to do is mention the term in one
of their magazines once in a while to maintain those rights .
Doctor Faust
>
> I've heard a lot of talk in the past about GW having some kind of beef
with
> Ansell, don't know the story to that though. Maybe they're pissed he sold
> out.
More like the other way around. Don't expect any business deals between
those two companies EVER. Period!
Doctor Faust
www.paintingclinic.com
>
>
Really SICK fog
>
> "Mario Tambay" <mta...@mtroyal.ab.ca> wrote in message
> news:3BC76F6D...@mtroyal.ab.ca...
> > Okay, I'll bite. What is to prevent Foundry from making a Squat range
> > then? or Since the squats are no longer bringing money to GW, what is
to
> > prevent anyone from casting his own? The IP laws are meant to protect
> > from loss of revenue. Since they don't have any what objection do they
> > have?
> >
> > Can anyone who has connections put the buzz in Foundry's ear on this?
> >
> GW still owns the rights, so they would probably be like Disney and stick
it
> to anyone that tried...Plus all they have to do is mention the term in one
> of their magazines once in a while to maintain those rights .
CJ comes to mind, on this one. Between E40K and the Squat = IG list, I
don't think *anybody* will be producing SpaceStunties any time soon.
--
b
Old Bear
> then?
How about a codex to work from?
Old Bear
"Doctor Faust" <drf...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9q8e6d$s59$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> >
> > I've heard a lot of talk in the past about GW having some kind of beef
> with
> > Ansell, don't know the story to that though. Maybe they're pissed he
sold
> > out.
>
> More like the other way around. Don't expect any business deals between
> those two companies EVER. Period!
That's odd. I thought Foundry and GW were rather tight?
HAL
> GW still owns the rights, so they would probably be like Disney and stick it
> to anyone that tried...Plus all they have to do is mention the term in one of
> their magazines once in a while to maintain those rights .
GW owns the right to use the term "squats". Any other company could sell
miniatures labeled "space dwarfs" or "star stunties" or "galactic nabots" or
anything else. Harlequin and Fenryll had produced a few models, but I really
don't understand why no one wants to produce a complete range of space dwarfs; A
lot of money is to get from all the 40k players that want them to be back.
Foudry could do it - They have recently designed some beautiful fantasy dwarves.
I keep the faith, but don't really believe it...
HAL
Jim M
news:3BC81A01...@infonie.fr...
futuristic science fiction games, if we can prove that they will at least
make back their cost on every figure produced, I suspect they would listen.
The thing is we would also need a game for them to go with, as it would be
obvious that GW isn't going to allow us to use them in their
tournaments...Perhaps we could all co-write it and get it published as an
"official RGMW sanctioned" game.
Nah it would never sell...
incrdbil
wrote:
>>Saying Squats dont sell is belittling the players who spent mucho money on
>>them - as an ex-Squat player, I paid a fair penny for my 3k Squat army from
>>GW and only sold it to concentrate on my SW/IG collections.
>
>As Jervis and GW have clearly stated, there's nothing wrong with playing Squats
>"treat as" IG or Orks or whatever.
Good then--so they shouldn't bother making an Eldar Exodites o
Harlequin list. Just play them as dumn eldar--or as Squats!
>
>Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
>Squats will stay in the dustbin.
>
because GW won't try and make new squat models--or even feature the
old ones. Funny, there were some other lines that had not-so-great
models, but they got re-sculpts.
Heck--they are still pressing on with the Necrons--and look at their
initial models--all horrid--not top mention a boring list with no
fluff--yet they get pushed.
incrdbil
incrdbil
<f...@blueridge.net> wrote:
>
>CJ comes to mind, on this one. Between E40K and the Squat = IG list, I
>don't think *anybody* will be producing SpaceStunties any time soon.
>--
>b
>
fitts right in witht e petty vendetta theorey too....
incrdbil
Craig Little
Perhaps we could all co-write it and get it published as an
> "official RGMW sanctioned" game.
>
> Nah it would never sell...
>
> --
between them they could come up with something sellable. Now all it needs is
for someone to set up a games company......
Darth Blackheart
<ji...@astronomican.fsworld.co.uk> wrote:
>> but it is simple fact that Squats didn't sell.
>
>What a load of rot!!
>
yeah I know... they were only my best friends favorite army... and the
reason most of my friends quit GW when the studio pulled that stunt..
but then again... having a brain and expecting quality product made GW
decide that they didn't want us around anyway... especially when they
can gte a new batch of sycophants that will praise any pile of shit
Thorpe churns out...
Blackheart
---------------------------
"We've inadvertently arrived back in the early 21st century over a place
called Afghanistan, captain." - Leonard Nimmoy
"Really? How we doin' for photon torpedoes?" - William Shatner (from the ST
episode: This Is How We Do It Downtown)
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
>No. There's a *huge* difference.
>
no.. you're slipping into the realm of tard-dom...
>Harlies are *great* models, and so 'Eavy Metal has a great time painting them,
>gets excellent results, and has no problem supporting them for sale.
>
Harliquins are -passable- models...
btw: the second part of the above story i construed also deals with
the Harliquins... the other army the studio member worked on was the
Harliquins and the only reason they even got a half assed job in the
CJ is because they're Gav's pet Eldar... they'll never get anything
more...
>Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
>Squats will stay in the dustbin.
that opinion coming from someone who thinks the Eldar are the only
balanced army in the game...
btw: I'd much rather paint Squats than Eldar.. which is why my eldar
are buried in a box in my closet... well that and because they're
total cheese and I refuse to be associated with the Eldar player
base...
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
>
>"Doctor Faust" <drf...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:9q8e6d$s59$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
>>
>> >
>> > I've heard a lot of talk in the past about GW having some kind of beef
>> with
>> > Ansell, don't know the story to that though. Maybe they're pissed he
>sold
>> > out.
>>
>> More like the other way around. Don't expect any business deals between
>> those two companies EVER. Period!
>
>That's odd. I thought Foundry and GW were rather tight?
>
I think it's more because the Perry's are still in good with Jervis
and Rick and since they have a stake in Foundry and GW doesn't want to
do Jervis and Ricks Historical stuff... it goes out through Foundry...
and notice that Ansell's name doesn't appear on any WAB stuff...
but actually I think the target of Andy and Jervis' wrath is Graeme
Davis...
Darth Blackheart
<drf...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> now... where are those 3 people these days? none of them work for GW
>> anymore. Still is still vaguely associatd with Foundry and Warhammer
>> Ancient Battles.
>>
>> But what happened to Ansell?
>
>He owns Foundry.
>
ok... then what ever became of Graeme Davis?
HAL
> So let's make a petition to Foundry to produce dwarfs for use with futuristic
> science fiction games, if we can prove that they will at least make back their
> cost on every figure produced, I suspect they would listen.
Foundry has a special email adress where you can send suggestions on the
miniatures to design or anything else you want to say to the sculptors. It is :
sugge...@wargamesfoundry.com
Foundry listen to his clients, that is for sure - Mor than GW in any case... So,
I think... I hope that sending a petition to them would make sense... Maybe.
> The thing is we would also need a game for them to go with, as it would be
> obvious that GW isn't going to allow us to use them in their
> tournaments...Perhaps we could all co-write it and get it published as an
> "official RGMW sanctioned" game.
>
> Nah it would never sell...
You can play 40k with your squats. You can create your own codex or use one of
those posted on the internet. The real (an only) problem is... the absence of
miniatures !
HAL
Mario Tambay
> How about a codex to work from?
Now that would be an infringment they mind (I asked). Given that some
people made their own Squat Codex, Foundry could tap into a ready market. I
really don't know about this but it couldn't be worse than some of the more
obscure historical lines they produce.
Why can't GW and Foundry work together on this, it's a win-win. GW produce
the Codex and Foundry the minis. A: more money for both and B: it's a
mutually supporting collaboration. All the arguments about GW production
schedule just wouldn't apply (or limited to a Codex). Partnerships are
dynamite for business. Personality conflicts? Hey, business in business,
you don't have to sleep with partners, just work with them.
Mario.
'Cartago Delendum est', err sorry, wrong life, I meant 'Salvete Hellions'
Kermit
beef
> >> with
> >> > Ansell, don't know the story to that though. Maybe they're pissed he
> >sold
> >> > out.
> >>
> >> More like the other way around. Don't expect any business deals between
> >> those two companies EVER. Period!
> >
> >That's odd. I thought Foundry and GW were rather tight?
> >
>
> I think it's more because the Perry's are still in good with Jervis
> and Rick and since they have a stake in Foundry and GW doesn't want to
> do Jervis and Ricks Historical stuff... it goes out through Foundry...
> and notice that Ansell's name doesn't appear on any WAB stuff...
>
> but actually I think the target of Andy and Jervis' wrath is Graeme
> Davis...
>
although maybe that's just fantasy
Kermit
> Trader Compendium RIGHT???) at the Squat army list, you'll notice that
> the list is credited to 3 people.
>
> Those three people are Brian Ansell, Nigel Stillman and Graeme Davis.
>
> now... where are those 3 people these days? none of them work for GW
> anymore. Still is still vaguely associatd with Foundry and Warhammer
> Ancient Battles.
>
> But what happened to Ansell?
>
>
> was involved in writing that army (probably Graeme Davis) left the
> studio on bad terms with Andy and Jervis and since the Squats was that
> guys "pet army" (alot like the Eldar are Gav's pet army), Andy and
> Jervis thought that it would be cool to stick it to that guy by
> dropping his army from the game.
>
myself about 6 months ago
Moramarth
<blackh...@home.com> writes
>I think it's more because the Perry's are still in good with Jervis
>and Rick and since they have a stake in Foundry
They, Copplestone, Ochman, and others ceased their contribution with
several ranges incomplete....
>
Cheers,
>Blackheart
>
>
>
--
Moramarth
St. Jason
>the reasons, but it is simple fact that Squats didn't sell.
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I've heard this line dozens of times and have
*NEVER* seen any support for it.
The only time that I've never seen them sell (Look on E-bay and bartertown!
They move like light!) is when GW purposely went and cut support for them. Cut
thier lines to nothing, pretty much banned them from White Dwarf... Gee, no
minis and no mention... that might influence sales, no?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ <cut here> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
(Evil, well not really evil. More of malcontent) St. Jason [MCoPE]
Honored bearer of Green Hat #
475136421584187195275016842987168216575462198721547846216854651687
estarriol
<toms...@theuk.freeuk.com> writes
beneath him in a hostile takeover.
--
estarriol
Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God's great Judgement Seat;
But there is neither East nor West,Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the
earth!
Old Bear
"Moramarth" <Mora...@moramarth.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:oJ7ZaJAd...@moramarth.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3bc86546.37691307@news>, Darth Blackheart
> <blackh...@home.com> writes
> >I think it's more because the Perry's are still in good with Jervis
> >and Rick and since they have a stake in Foundry
> The Perrys and Foundry have got a divorce recently.
> They, Copplestone, Ochman, and others ceased their contribution with
> several ranges incomplete....
How come?
Old Bear
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2001 09:21:33 +0100, "Old Bear" <ki...@enterprise.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Doctor Faust" <drf...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >news:9q8e6d$s59$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I've heard a lot of talk in the past about GW having some kind of
beef
> >> with
> >> > Ansell, don't know the story to that though. Maybe they're pissed he
> >sold
> >> > out.
> >>
> >> More like the other way around. Don't expect any business deals between
> >> those two companies EVER. Period!
> >
> >That's odd. I thought Foundry and GW were rather tight?
> >
>
> I think it's more because the Perry's are still in good with Jervis
> and Rick and since they have a stake in Foundry and GW doesn't want to
> do Jervis and Ricks Historical stuff... it goes out through Foundry...
> and notice that Ansell's name doesn't appear on any WAB stuff...
>
> but actually I think the target of Andy and Jervis' wrath is Graeme
> Davis...
Whatever happened to him? Might be interesting to contact him and get an
opinion...
Old Bear
"Kermit" <Kermy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9q9vd1$mt625$1...@ID-97419.news.dfncis.de...
If it's true then I'd not be having nice thoughts about either of them.
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>>>Saying Squats dont sell is belittling the players who spent mucho money on
>>>them - as an ex-Squat player, I paid a fair penny for my 3k Squat army
>>>from GW and only sold it to concentrate on my SW/IG collections.
>>
>>As Jervis and GW have clearly stated, there's nothing wrong with playing
>>Squats "treat as" IG or Orks or whatever.
>
>Good then--so they shouldn't bother making an Eldar Exodites o
>Harlequin list. Just play them as dumn eldar--or as Squats!
Um, explain how Harlequins could possibly play as Eldar, given that the wargear
and such is totally different.
And the notion as playing as "Squats"? Huh? What's that? Some stupid made-up
thing that someone got off the Internet?
>>Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
>>Squats will stay in the dustbin.
>>
>because GW won't try and make new squat models--or even feature the
>old ones. Funny, there were some other lines that had not-so-great
>models, but they got re-sculpts.
Yeah, but the Nid line was crap and needed the resculpt.
There were other linesthat had great models, and *they* got re-sculpts.
*cough* V2 Eldar *cough*
>Heck--they are still pressing on with the Necrons--and look at their
>initial models--all horrid--not top mention a boring list with no
>fluff--yet they get pushed.
>incrdbil
The Necron Immortals weren't bad. Certainly better than the recent interim SW
Scouts or the current Eldar Scorpions. Or L******s.
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Sick Jimi
> wargear and such is totally different.
Ignore the fact that the Harlies have an army list and then re-read Inc's
comments. More Squat minis were sold than Harlie minis yet GW did an army
list for the Harlies so why not the Squats??
> And the notion as playing as "Squats"? Huh? What's that? Some stupid
> made-up thing that someone got off the Internet?
I see you have humour impairment at the moment - dont worry, it will pass.
Jimi
FREE 40k card scenery - http://www.crosswinds.net/~astronomican/
40k3 - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/40k3/
40k Fluff - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/40k_fluff/
Astartes - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adeptus_astartes/
Grey Knights - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/greyknightchapter/
GW Design Rules - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gw-dr/
Imperial Guard - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/imperial-guard/
Sons Of Russ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sons-of-russ/
Unforgiven - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unforgiven/
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>>No. There's a *huge* difference.
>
>no.. you're slipping into the realm of tard-dom...
S'OK -- you're most of the way there already...
>>Harlies are *great* models, and so 'Eavy Metal has a great time
>>painting them, gets excellent results, and has no problem supporting
>>them for sale.
>
>Harliquins are -passable- models...
Still beat most of the stuff coming out the the studio lately.
>btw: the second part of the above story i construed also deals with
>the Harliquins... the other army the studio member worked on was the
>Harliquins and the only reason they even got a half assed job in the
>CJ is because they're Gav's pet Eldar...
Yet, despite this, the Hariles have what is arguably the weakest army list in
the entire game... Some favoritism shown here.
>they'll never get anything more...
So are you saying you'd rather have a half-assed Squat list to make the Squats
the new "low man on the totem pole"?
If that's the case, I'm sure there are a number of GW designers who would be
happy to oblige you with an even weaker, yet more overpriced list with less
overall capability... The studio could bill it as "A true challenge for the
experienced gamer".
>>Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
>>Squats will stay in the dustbin.
>
>that opinion coming from someone who thinks the Eldar are the only
>balanced army in the game...
Back that with a quote, please. Otherwise, you're just talking out your ass.
Perhaps you ought to work on your reading comprehension. I've stated time and
again that I consider Eldar (in general) to be roughly average, compared with
vanilla SM, which are *defined* as average.
Unlike you, I'm happy enough to play either side of any army list. I play
several 40k armies against a wide variety of opponents, and I don't seem to
have a problem with any of them on either side of the game.
>btw: I'd much rather paint Squats than Eldar.. which is why my eldar
>are buried in a box in my closet... well that and because they're
>total cheese
Whatever. You could always be a man and play a "non-cheesy" Eldar army,
whatever that means.
I'll even do you the favor of starting you off with an army list: Farseer w/
Storm of Destruction; Wraithguard; Dire Avengers; Jetbikes; and Fire
Prisms, HS Falcons for Transport.
>and I refuse to be associated with the Eldar player base...
Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the whiny "Eldar are
cheese" player base. Which says to me that you're simply not good enough to
deal with certain tactical problems.
St. Jason
>don't understand why no one wants to produce a complete range of space
>dwarfs; A
>lot of money is to get from all the 40k players that want them to be back.
..because GW slapps multiple lawsuits on just about anyone who tries, and then
lets them go bankrupt in court? (Look for Enigma/Atlantis games for an example)
St. Jason
>Squats
>the
>guys who make armies of puppets or winged fey or whatever.
Crap again. Especially as about half of all official events don't consider them
"Official GW models" even if you show them the little flange on the bottom that
says "GW 1987"
>>> Heck, they ar least tossed a bone to Harlequins in the codex--the
>>> absolute refusal to do so for squats (or use one of the many fan
>>> lists) sounds a bit like petty payback to me.
>>
>>Exactly.
>
>No. There's a *huge* difference.
>
>Harlies are *great* models, and so 'Eavy Metal has a great time painting
>them,
>gets excellent results, and has no problem supporting them for sale.
Harlies have some great models. About half the Mimes/Haliquins are mediocre.
The characters are nifty, though. The Death Jesters aren't really that great.
>Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
>Squats will stay in the dustbin.
The Squats had some really nice models. I personally love the Exo-Armor, and
quite a few of the models (the Hearthguard on a bike, for example) are
excellent. Granted, they had their share of duds, but what line didn't?
St. Jason
>>Harlequin list. Just play them as dumn eldar--or as Squats!
>
>Um, explain how Harlequins could possibly play as Eldar, given that the
>wargear
(drums fingers and waits for John to get it)
incrdbil
wrote:
>
>Um, explain how Harlequins could possibly play as Eldar, given that the wargear
>and such is totally different.
How could Squats possibly play as orks as......get it?
>
>And the notion as playing as "Squats"? Huh? What's that? Some stupid made-up
>thing that someone got off the Internet?
okm take the feeling you got being told to play Harlies as somethign
you didn't know or care about. Now, try some empathy here....
>
>>incrdbil
>
>The Necron Immortals weren't bad.
that's the best thign you could say about the original Necron
line--compared to the rest, they didn't make you want to gouge your
eyes out.
incrdbil
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
>Um, explain how Harlequins could possibly play as Eldar, given that the wargear
>and such is totally different.
>
>And the notion as playing as "Squats"? Huh? What's that? Some stupid made-up
>thing that someone got off the Internet?
>
WHOOOOOSH
>>>Squats are ugly models, no fun to paint, not interesting once painted. Thus
>>>Squats will stay in the dustbin.
>>>
>>because GW won't try and make new squat models--or even feature the
>>old ones. Funny, there were some other lines that had not-so-great
>>models, but they got re-sculpts.
>
>Yeah, but the Nid line was crap and needed the resculpt.
>
So then.. if the Squats were "crap" just like the Tyranids, they
should have gotten a resculpt....
or are you working on a doule standard?
>There were other linesthat had great models, and *they* got re-sculpts.
>*cough* V2 Eldar *cough*
>
>>Heck--they are still pressing on with the Necrons--and look at their
>>initial models--all horrid--not top mention a boring list with no
>>fluff--yet they get pushed.
>>incrdbil
>
>The Necron Immortals weren't bad. Certainly better than the recent interim SW
>Scouts or the current Eldar Scorpions. Or L******s.
well.. if "they weren't bad" means they didn't cause blindness on
viewing...
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>>Um, explain how Harlequins could possibly play as Eldar, given that
>>the wargear and such is totally different.
>
>How could Squats possibly play as orks as......get it?
Jervis has already gone over this point. In detail, with a full list of
"counts as".
But getting back to the "treat as' Eldar... Notionally, a Harlie army is a
couple dozen models. The closest Eldar match is Banshees for the basic
Harlies, Jetbikes as Jetbikes, and a Farseer for the Shadow Seer. OK. But how
to treat the Great Harlequin or Solitaire commanders? We're *well* short on
points. Those same couple dozen models aren't even *close* to making a 1500
point army as normal.
>>And the notion as playing as "Squats"? Huh? What's that? Some stupid
>>made-up thing that someone got off the Internet?
>
>okm take the feeling you got being told to play Harlies as somethign
>you didn't know or care about.
Actually, if the list were balanced and the models a reasonable match, I
wouldn't have a problem with it.
>Now, try some empathy here....
Nah. I'll pass. I'm far too annoyed with Blackie to muster any such thing at
the moment.
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
> blackh...@home.com (Darth Blackheart) wrote:
>>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>>>No. There's a *huge* difference.
>>
>>no.. you're slipping into the realm of tard-dom...
>
>S'OK -- you're most of the way there already...
>
funnily enough the only people that would agree with you on that are
Bateau and Shitzer... nice company you keep...
>>>Harlies are *great* models, and so 'Eavy Metal has a great time
>>>painting them, gets excellent results, and has no problem supporting
>>>them for sale.
>>
>>Harliquins are -passable- models...
>
>Still beat most of the stuff coming out the the studio lately.
>
yeah... and so does those old Squats...
>>btw: the second part of the above story i construed also deals with
>>the Harliquins... the other army the studio member worked on was the
>>Harliquins and the only reason they even got a half assed job in the
>>CJ is because they're Gav's pet Eldar...
>
>Yet, despite this, the Hariles have what is arguably the weakest army list in
>the entire game... Some favoritism shown here.
>
the point you missed is that the only reason they got a half ass job
in CJ is because of Gav's Eldar fixation and because he's made a
career out of being Jervis and Andy's boytoy now that Tuomas is
gone...
>>they'll never get anything more...
>
>So are you saying you'd rather have a half-assed Squat list to make the Squats
>the new "low man on the totem pole"?
>
if it brought back those molds that GWUK destroyed so I could get the
Squats that I would use in my RT games, fuck yeah....
>If that's the case, I'm sure there are a number of GW designers who would be
>happy to oblige you with an even weaker, yet more overpriced list with less
>overall capability... The studio could bill it as "A true challenge for the
>experienced gamer".
>
they can bill it as the fucking cure for cancer for all I care...
>Whatever. You could always be a man and play a "non-cheesy" Eldar army,
>whatever that means.
>
it's almost as simple as you... no wraithlords, no starcannons
>I'll even do you the favor of starting you off with an army list: Farseer w/
>Storm of Destruction; Wraithguard; Dire Avengers; Jetbikes; and Fire
>Prisms, HS Falcons for Transport.
>
>>and I refuse to be associated with the Eldar player base...
>
>Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the whiny "Eldar are
>cheese" player base. Which says to me that you're simply not good enough to
>deal with certain tactical problems.
oh yes... imagine that... anyone that disagrees with you is "whiny"...
incrdbil
wrote:
>>How could Squats possibly play as orks as......get it?
>
>Jervis has already gone over this point. In detail, with a full list of
>"counts as".
and what makes you think that squat owners are goign tobe any more
satisfied than the Harlie/Eldar..swap?
>
incrdbil
RT Maitreya
> >Jervis has already gone over this point. In detail, with a full list of
> >"counts as".
>
> and what makes you think that squat owners are goign tobe any more
> satisfied than the Harlie/Eldar..swap?
Sure, field the squats with bolters as. .
oh, but the hearthguard make great. . .
no, wait, my exo armored models fit in the IG list, erm,
trikes?
bikes?
FUCKING ANYTHING?
RTM
RT Maitreya
> Crap again. Especially as about half of all official events don't consider them
> "Official GW models" even if you show them the little flange on the bottom that
> says "GW 1987"
Come play squats in L.A., as we Californians aren't hung up
about the upper GW management pissing contests.
RTM
Doctor Faust
> Ummmm he didn't sell out, he was bought out by the management team
> beneath him in a hostile takeover.
The last story I heard (and there are tons of rumors about Ansell-era GW and
what happened) was Ansell had some terrible disease and was near death. He
sold GW and gave Foundry to his father, then went to his home and basically
waited to die. After a few years he recovered to full health (to the amaze
of his doctors) and either took back, or is a strong silent partner, in
Foundry. I THINK he tried to get back a part of GW, but they told him to get
stuffed. Can't remember for sure if that was it, but something started up
some bad blood there.
I also vaguely remember something about GW not being allowed to make or
remake certain games or figures from the Ansell era. The Trolls in the
Pantry-type games fell into that category. Maybe Squats are also involved.
Just a guess. Its been years since I heard the full story.
Doctor Faust
www.paintingclinic.com
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
>Nah. I'll pass. I'm far too annoyed with Blackie to muster any such thing at
>the moment.
>
can I file that under "One more for the good guys"?
DellCry
Blackheart) wrote:
> the point you missed is that the only reason they got a half ass job
> in CJ is because of Gav's Eldar fixation and because he's made a
> career out of being Jervis and Andy's boytoy now that Tuomas is
> gone...
Not that I miss him or his unbalanced forces, but what happened with
Tuomas? He seemed to be the new darling of the studio, then was gone. Did
they have a falling out, was he fired, or did he find another gig and
bail?
RT Maitreya
> Not that I miss him or his unbalanced forces, but what happened with
> Tuomas?
He's me.
RTM
-Or at least that's what 3 different people at the LAGT said
about me from a distance. . . unnerving profile resemblance-
P Bowles
incr...@diespammersdie.flinthills.com (incrdbil) writes:
Because Squats were barely more than Orks with lasguns in the first place?
Philip Bowles
Jim M
news:3BC932F0...@speakeasy.org...
make since, and even those lists don't work very well...
--
Jim M
j...@hnjcomics.com
http://www.hnjcomics.com
#4 of the sacred 115
Wearer of Green Hat #23
Darth Blackheart
riiiiiight.....
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
he got a gig at a computer game company over there... he couldn't deal
with the hostility he was getting from certain segments of the
population....
so he went into computer games.... guess he never saw how the Dev
Teams for UO and Evercrack got treated,,,
Hogshead Publishing
<blackh...@home.com> writes
>ok... then what ever became of Graeme Davis?
Went into computer game design, now working -- I believe -- for
VR1/Microsoft, and freelancing in the RPG biz. Still writes and edits
material for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay: he compiled "Apocrypha 2" for
us last year. Also wrote some notable products for White Wolf, including
the first edition of "Mummy". Generally recognised as one of the
friendliest people in the games biz.
--
James Wallis ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk
Director, Hogshead Publishing Ltd http://www.hogshead.demon.co.uk
18-20 Bromell's Road, London SW4 0BG UK T-0207 207 5490 F-0207 207 5491
NOT A HOAX! NOT AN IMAGINARY BOOK! REALMS OF SORCERY IS OUT THIS AUTUMN!
DRAGONMEET 2001 - London's gaming event - 1 December - www.dragonmeet.com
Old Bear
> Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the whiny "Eldar
are
> cheese" player base. Which says to me that you're simply not good enough
to
> deal with certain tactical problems.
Like cheesy army lists, you mean...;>)
Old Bear
> DellCry wrote:
>
> > Not that I miss him or his unbalanced forces, but what happened with
> > Tuomas?
>
> He's me.
Pirinen is the new Head Boy?
Old Bear
"Doctor Faust" <drf...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9qbctu$m07$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> > Ummmm he didn't sell out, he was bought out by the management team
> > beneath him in a hostile takeover.
>
> The last story I heard (and there are tons of rumors about Ansell-era GW
and
> what happened) was Ansell had some terrible disease and was near death. He
> sold GW and gave Foundry to his father, then went to his home and
basically
> waited to die. After a few years he recovered to full health (to the amaze
> of his doctors) and either took back, or is a strong silent partner, in
> Foundry. I THINK he tried to get back a part of GW, but they told him to
get
> stuffed. Can't remember for sure if that was it, but something started up
> some bad blood there.
>
> I also vaguely remember something about GW not being allowed to make or
> remake certain games or figures from the Ansell era. The Trolls in the
> Pantry-type games fell into that category. Maybe Squats are also involved.
> Just a guess. Its been years since I heard the full story.
I think that whatever is true if we were to open GW's cupboard we'd be
crushed by a bone avalanche...
Craig Little
Old Bear <ki...@enterprise.com> wrote in message
news:9qcho9$sg6$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> I think that whatever is true if we were to open GW's cupboard we'd be
> crushed by a bone avalanche...
>
> --
> Old Bear
Could I proxy those for a regular snow avalanche?
incrdbil
>
>Because Squats were barely more than Orks with lasguns in the first place?
>
>Philip Bowles
Suuuure. Ok--Harlequins are just goofy Eldar then, and Exodites--well,
being savage lvves, they can use the Fwerla Orks codex..makes as much
sense.
Squats are out not because of sales, but because that's the way the
studio members want it. Armies get made, and treated, accordign to the
pet status of studio members--that's been plainly evident for a long
time. Catachans were the lead IG regiment because the studio like the
look (they spout some BS about sales figures, but I've never seen a
shred of evidence to back that)
in the case of the Squats, it's the studio saying "fuck you" to
players and former employess--while wasting our time with worthless
crap like the Tau or the current Necrons.
incrdbil
HAL
> Squats are out not because of sales, but because that's the way the studio
> members want it.
Exactly.
> Armies get made, and treated, accordign to the pet status of studio
> members--that's been plainly evident for a long
> time.
Ex-act-ly.
Chambers doesn't like the squats, he won't never release a codex : Squats.
Chambers is tired of hearing guys crying : "Bring back the squats ! Please Andy
!" he writes a fluff article depicting how the squats have been killed by the
nides.
Really a cool guy. Really.
> in the case of the Squats, it's the studio saying "fuck you" to players and
> former employess--while wasting our time with worthless crap like the Tau or
> the current Necrons.
As long as Chambers will be the 40k boss at GW, squats won't be back. As long
as Chambers can prove he is useful to GW (by bringing enough money to Kirby),
Chambers will be the boss.
HAL
Kermit
> > >
> > > But what happened to Ansell?
> > >
> > > and what happened to Graeme Davis?
> > >
> > > anyway... the story i've always heard is that one of the people that
> > > was involved in writing that army (probably Graeme Davis) left the
> > > studio on bad terms with Andy and Jervis and since the Squats was that
> > > guys "pet army" (alot like the Eldar are Gav's pet army), Andy and
> > > Jervis thought that it would be cool to stick it to that guy by
> > > dropping his army from the game.
> > >
> > Just thought I'd (sort of) corroborate this story, by saying I'd heard
it
> > myself about 6 months ago
>
> If it's true then I'd not be having nice thoughts about either of them.
>
On reading my comment again, I thought I'd better try again...
I heard the story about 6 months ago, however the people named from the
studio (Andy and Jervis) weren't named. As the person I heard it from worked
for GW, and didn't really want to be "naming any names in case it wasn't
strictly true". Or quite possibly as he didn't want to stir things up with
GW
Old Bear
"Craig Little" <lost.my.heart.to....@outer.space> wrote in
message news:Reky7.23225$oE5.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
LOL. Absolutely.
vermillian
> On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 07:13:03 -0600, "OrpheusITU"
> <wmatth...@qwest.net> wrote:
>
> >"Darth Blackheart" <blackh...@home.com> wrote in message
> >news:3bc6e6ec.1271996@news...
> >
> ><snip>
> ugh... that whole "Bad Girl" thing is sooo 5 years ago...
Try, like, 25 years ago...
~SV
St. Jason
>
>Try, like, 25 years ago...
...which is why I find it refreshing and interesting to have an army of fully
armored (not chainmail bikini) sensibly shoed (show me one animae female armor
that doesn't have high heels) women that actually look like warriors. SOB look
great and are senseable (at least for the 40k world...)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ <cut here> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
(Evil, well not really evil. More of malcontent) St. Jason [MCoPE]
Honored bearer of Green Hat #
475136421584187195275016842987168216575462198721547846216854651687
St. Jason
Play in an official event? Ewww...
Seriously, though. I've heard this too many times to disregard. Many times
people with old minis (Squat or no) get turned away...
bthom37
Blackheart) wrote:
>On Sun, 14 Oct 2001 01:00:21 -0700, del...@ix.netcom.com (DellCry)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <3bc91ffe.85498282@news>, blackh...@home.com (Darth
>>Blackheart) wrote:
>>
>>> the point you missed is that the only reason they got a half ass job
>>> in CJ is because of Gav's Eldar fixation and because he's made a
>>> career out of being Jervis and Andy's boytoy now that Tuomas is
>>> gone...
>>
>>Not that I miss him or his unbalanced forces, but what happened with
>>Tuomas? He seemed to be the new darling of the studio, then was gone. Did
>>they have a falling out, was he fired, or did he find another gig and
>>bail?
>>
>
>he got a gig at a computer game company over there... he couldn't deal
>with the hostility he was getting from certain segments of the
>population....
And wanted to make real money. He asked for residuals on WHFBv.6,
didn't get any. In fact, the only GW employee who gets residuals
(IIRC) is Goodwin.
smithdoerr
"St. Jason" <black...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011014201847...@mb-cs.aol.com...
> >> ugh... that whole "Bad Girl" thing is sooo 5 years ago...
> >
> >Try, like, 25 years ago...
>
> ...which is why I find it refreshing and interesting to have an army of
fully
> armored (not chainmail bikini) sensibly shoed (show me one animae female
armor
> that doesn't have high heels) women that actually look like warriors. SOB
look
> great and are senseable (at least for the 40k world...)
Plus the SOBs don't suffer from FLBS (Freakishly Large Breasts Syndrome).
--
- smithdoerr
Download the free Warhammer 40k-Wound Calculator ver1.01 at:
http://www.geocities.com/smithdoerr/40k/WoundCalculator.html
bthom37
<smith...@NOSPAMPLEASEpipeline.com> wrote:
>
>"St. Jason" <black...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20011014201847...@mb-cs.aol.com...
>> >> ugh... that whole "Bad Girl" thing is sooo 5 years ago...
>> >
>> >Try, like, 25 years ago...
>>
>> ...which is why I find it refreshing and interesting to have an army of
>fully
>> armored (not chainmail bikini) sensibly shoed (show me one animae female
>armor
>> that doesn't have high heels) women that actually look like warriors. SOB
>look
>> great and are senseable (at least for the 40k world...)
>
>Plus the SOBs don't suffer from FLBS (Freakishly Large Breasts Syndrome).
I wasn't aware that FLBS was something that caused suffering.
Jim M
"smithdoerr" <smith...@NOSPAMPLEASEpipeline.com> wrote in message
news:9qdgip$471$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> "St. Jason" <black...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20011014201847...@mb-cs.aol.com...
> > >> ugh... that whole "Bad Girl" thing is sooo 5 years ago...
> > >
> > >Try, like, 25 years ago...
> >
> > ...which is why I find it refreshing and interesting to have an army of
> fully
> > armored (not chainmail bikini) sensibly shoed (show me one animae female
> armor
> > that doesn't have high heels) women that actually look like warriors.
SOB
> look
> > great and are senseable (at least for the 40k world...)
>
> Plus the SOBs don't suffer from FLBS (Freakishly Large Breasts Syndrome).
>
>
Yeah...Darn it...
http://jimac.tripod.com/minis/
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>> blackh...@home.com (Darth Blackheart) wrote:
>>>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>>>>No. There's a *huge* difference.
>>>
>>>no.. you're slipping into the realm of tard-dom...
>>
>>S'OK -- you're most of the way there already...
>
>funnily enough the only people that would agree with you on
>that are Bateau and Shitzer... nice company you keep...
I'll never know on this point, as they're both in the bin. But given that
you're the one who seems to be overreacting here, starting with the
name-calling, well... difficult for me to conclude otherwise.
>>>>Harlies are *great* models, and so 'Eavy Metal has a great time
>>>>painting them, gets excellent results, and has no problem supporting
>>>>them for sale.
>>>
>>>Harliquins are -passable- models...
>>
>>Still beat most of the stuff coming out the the studio lately.
>
>yeah... and so does those old Squats...
There's no accounting for taste.
>>>btw: the second part of the above story i construed also deals with
>>>the Harliquins... the other army the studio member worked on was the
>>>Harliquins and the only reason they even got a half assed job in the
>>>CJ is because they're Gav's pet Eldar...
>>
>>Yet, despite this, the Hariles have what is arguably the weakest army
>> list in the entire game... Some favoritism shown here.
>
>the point you missed is that the only reason they got a half ass job
>in CJ is because of Gav's Eldar fixation and because he's made a
>career out of being Jervis and Andy's boytoy now that Tuomas is
>gone...
So perhaps I might complain about Ork and SM "fixations" as well?
Or perhaps the Arbites and Genestealer Cults?
>>>they'll never get anything more...
>>
>>So are you saying you'd rather have a half-assed Squat list to make
>> the Squats the new "low man on the totem pole"?
>
>if it brought back those molds that GWUK destroyed so I could get the
>Squats that I would use in my RT games, fuck yeah....
Be careful what you wish for...
>>If that's the case, I'm sure there are a number of GW designers who
>>would be happy to oblige you with an even weaker, yet more overpriced
>> list with less overall capability... The studio could bill it as "A true
>>challenge for the experienced gamer".
>
>they can bill it as the fucking cure for cancer for all I care...
>
>>Whatever. You could always be a man and play a "non-cheesy" Eldar
>>army, whatever that means.
>
>it's almost as simple as you... no wraithlords, no starcannons
Sure, I have no problem with this, provided that my opponents do likewise.
If you give up your underpriced units, I'll be happy to give up mine. IOW,
play Vanilla without Tacticals or Transports.
>>>and I refuse to be associated with the Eldar player base...
>>
>>Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the whiny
>>"Eldar are cheese" player base. Which says to me that you're simply
>>not good enough to deal with certain tactical problems.
>
>oh yes... imagine that... anyone that disagrees with you is "whiny"...
Nope. Anyone who makes broad and unfounded statements about entire armies
being "cheese" is what I'd call whiny.
As for disagreement, I think you'll find I've disagreed with plenty on the NG,
and not had to resort to name-calling. But then it's becoming very clear to me
that you don't bother to do your homework before disagreeing..
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
John Hwang
>> Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the
>> whiny "Eldar are cheese" player base. Which says to me that
>> you're simply not good enough to deal with certain tactical
>> problems.
>
>Like cheesy army lists, you mean...;>)
Heh. Example, please.
I've yet to see an Eldar army list which can't be beaten by a balanced SM (or
other) list in a variety of missions with a variety of objectives and on a
variety of terrain.
"Cheese" is situational and narrow, hence, I do not consider it to be a problem
for a good player.
BTW, if you're saying that even 3 WLs in 1500+ points is cheesy, I'd counter
with 4+ Tactical squads with 4+ Transports. Similar effective net undercosts
on both sides of the board.
The only difference is that the SM have the benefit of being the "official"
cost basis. Using just about anything else short of a DE Warrior and basic SM
are well underpriced for what you get.
John Hwang
>>>How could Squats possibly play as orks as......get it?
>>
>>Jervis has already gone over this point. In detail, with a full list of
>>"counts as".
>
>and what makes you think that squat owners are goign tobe any more
>satisfied than the Harlie/Eldar..swap?
No idea. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I imagine that "treat
as" army of Harlies as Eldar would be more playable than Hariles as CJ
Harlies...
Sad, really.
John Hwang
>incrdbil wrote:
>> >Jervis has already gone over this point. In detail, with a full list of
>> >"counts as".
>>
>> and what makes you think that squat owners are goign tobe any more
>> satisfied than the Harlie/Eldar..swap?
>
>Sure, field the squats with bolters as. .
Lasguns, obviously. Just like how Banshee laspistols got upgraded to
Shuripistols, and Guardians with Lasguns got upgraded to Shuricats.
>oh, but the hearthguard make great. . .
Stormtroopers.
>no, wait, my exo armored models fit in the IG list, erm,
Ogryns.
>trikes?
Sentinels.
>bikes?
Rough Riders.
Someone else can do the Orky "treat as" for the above.
I find it odd how you were so good with coming up with WFB translations, but
have such trouble with your Squats. :P
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>
>>Nah. I'll pass. I'm far too annoyed with Blackie to muster any such
>>thing at the moment.
>
>can I file that under "One more for the good guys"?
You can do whatever you darn well please with it.
And what exactly makes you one of the "good guys" again?
incrdbil
wrote:
>
>No idea. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I imagine that "treat
>as" army of Harlies as Eldar would be more playable than Hariles as CJ
>Harlies...
>
>Sad, really.
>
I'm wondering how they woudl force Harlequins into a deathtrap..err,
Venom anyway....
incrdbil
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
>I find it odd how you were so good with coming up with WFB translations, but
>have such trouble with your Squats. :P
probably becuase he has to tone down the big words for you...
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
> blackh...@home.com (Darth Blackheart)
>>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>>
>>>Nah. I'll pass. I'm far too annoyed with Blackie to muster any such
>>>thing at the moment.
>>
>>can I file that under "One more for the good guys"?
>
>You can do whatever you darn well please with it.
>
>
>And what exactly makes you one of the "good guys" again?
the shining example I set as a kind and good natured human being....
Darth Blackheart
wrote:
>
>So perhaps I might complain about Ork and SM "fixations" as well?
>Or perhaps the Arbites and Genestealer Cults?
>
the only thing the Orks have going for them is the KoS list.. which
only wins on misions with reserves around here...
>>>>they'll never get anything more...
>>>
>>>So are you saying you'd rather have a half-assed Squat list to make
>>> the Squats the new "low man on the totem pole"?
>>
>>if it brought back those molds that GWUK destroyed so I could get the
>>Squats that I would use in my RT games, fuck yeah....
>
>Be careful what you wish for...
>
hey... I'm wishing baby.. uz then it would be one less army i have to
finish and one closer army to being able to finally tell GW to fuck
off...
>Sure, I have no problem with this, provided that my opponents do likewise.
>If you give up your underpriced units, I'll be happy to give up mine. IOW,
>play Vanilla without Tacticals or Transports.
>
I don't use transports anyway.. but feel free to let me know which
units are undercosted in the Chaos list as that's my main army... as
it is.. I don't use Raptors, Veterans, Obliterators, Noise Marines,
Thousand Sons, Daemons or Sorcerors... and rarely use terminators...
which means I use, Berserkers, Khorne Lords, Plague Marines, Plague
Marine Lords, Havocs and normal CSMs and occasioanlly a dread or
predator...
>>>>and I refuse to be associated with the Eldar player base...
>>>
>>>Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the whiny
>>>"Eldar are cheese" player base. Which says to me that you're simply
>>>not good enough to deal with certain tactical problems.
>>
>>oh yes... imagine that... anyone that disagrees with you is "whiny"...
>
>Nope. Anyone who makes broad and unfounded statements about entire armies
>being "cheese" is what I'd call whiny.
>
>As for disagreement, I think you'll find I've disagreed with plenty on the NG,
>and not had to resort to name-calling. But then it's becoming very clear to me
>that you don't bother to do your homework before disagreeing..
why bother to do the homework when you've already seen the answers?
mention Eldar and John flips out.. happens every time... you can set a
fucking watch by it...
"Eldar are Cheesy"
3....2....1
*John flips out*
Old Bear
"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message
news:20011015000343...@mb-mg.news.cs.com...
> "Old Bear" ki...@enterprise.com wrote:
> >> Of course not. You're too busy associating yourself with the
> >> whiny "Eldar are cheese" player base. Which says to me that
> >> you're simply not good enough to deal with certain tactical
> >> problems.
> >
> >Like cheesy army lists, you mean...;>)
>
> Heh. Example, please.
Eldar. Next question.
>
> I've yet to see an Eldar army list which can't be beaten by a balanced SM
(or
> other) list in a variety of missions with a variety of objectives and on a
> variety of terrain.
You need to get out more.
>
> "Cheese" is situational and narrow, hence, I do not consider it to be a
problem
> for a good player.
Absolutely not. On a 4' deep table, you're in combat in round two anyway. I
maintain that the word 'tactics' when referring to 40K should be outlawed
for anybody using less than a 5' deep table.
>
> BTW, if you're saying that even 3 WLs in 1500+ points is cheesy,
I am.
I'd counter
> with 4+ Tactical squads with 4+ Transports. Similar effective net
undercosts
> on both sides of the board.
I don't see standard Tac squads as being as effective as WL's.
>
> The only difference is that the SM have the benefit of being the
"official"
> cost basis.
You forgot the free 'We Never Run Away' rule.
incrdbil
Blackheart) wrote:
>
>>Sure, I have no problem with this, provided that my opponents do likewise.
>>If you give up your underpriced units, I'll be happy to give up mine. IOW,
>>play Vanilla without Tacticals or Transports.
Am I the only person laughing their ass off at this--an Eldar player
accusing Vanilla marines of having undercosted units?
incrdbil
incrdbil
wrote:
>
>>
>> BTW, if you're saying that even 3 WLs in 1500+ points is cheesy,
>
>I am.
It is.
>
>
> I'd counter
>> with 4+ Tactical squads with 4+ Transports. Similar effective net
>undercosts
>> on both sides of the board.
>
>I don't see standard Tac squads as being as effective as WL's.
I'm wondering what crack induced haze led him to think tac squads are
undercosted--or as effective as wraithlords.
>
>
>> The only difference is that the SM have the benefit of being the
>"official"
>> cost basis.
>
>
>You forgot the free 'We Never Run Away' rule.
which GW changed to 'we run away if anyone gets close to us'
>
incrdbil
Darth Blackheart
I was rolling on the floor until I found a piece of a plastic space
marine I dropped... the hard way...
Ned Leavitt
Eldar player! Undercosted my shapely but somewhat hairy ass!
-NEd
Listed in the RGMW Form Flame, and Pathetically Proud Of It
"People who are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history"
-J Danforth Quayle
"Words are like leaves / And where they most abound
Much fruit of sense beneath / is rarely found"
-Alexander Pope
Puns are the highest AND lowest form of humour.
Old Bear
"Ned Leavitt" <nlea...@uoguelph.ca> wrote in message
news:9qeugu$5ng$1...@testinfo.cs.uoguelph.ca...
> In article <3bcaf20...@usenet.flinthills.com>,
incr...@diespammersdie.flinthills.com (incrdbil) wrote:
> >On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 05:07:03 GMT, blackh...@home.com (Darth
> >Blackheart) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>>Sure, I have no problem with this, provided that my opponents do
likewise.
> >>>If you give up your underpriced units, I'll be happy to give up mine.
IOW,
> >>>play Vanilla without Tacticals or Transports.
> >
> >Am I the only person laughing their ass off at this--an Eldar player
> >accusing Vanilla marines of having undercosted units?
> >
> >
> >
> >incrdbil
> >
> >
> I know I'm not laughing - Let me at him! I don't have to take that from an
> Eldar player! Undercosted my shapely but somewhat hairy ass!
Alright Ned, leave it! (get it? Ned, leave it...Ned Leavitt!!!
..............I'll get me coat)
Jim M
news:3bcaf20...@usenet.flinthills.com...
kept his brush wet with water...