[40k][Paint]Copper?
Silver Sorcerer
edition Codex for marines. The "Sons of Hephestus." Lot's of Techmarines and
Adepts of the Machine god and the like. Lots of Bionics. For the Color
scheme I have decided on a Beaten Copper look, with Black shoulderpads with
Silver trim, with Black Eagles and Cabling. MY question is this, How does
one Paint A whole figure copper? I.E. I'm mainly wondering what to basecoat
and Drybrush/Ink with to make it look decent. I know this is a rather basic
painting question, but I asked around work and they didn't seem to have any
Idea. Thanks in advance!
John Hwang
Wow, just like Maka...
>The "Sons of Hephestus." Lot's of Techmarines and
>Adepts of the Machine god and the like. Lots of
>Bionics.
OK. Play as an Iron Hands successor.
>For the Color scheme I have decided on a Beaten
>Copper look, with Black shoulderpads with
>Silver trim, with Black Eagles and Cabling.
I would use yellow or gold trim in the pads, keeping the edging in copper. I
don't think silver would look quite so good directly against copper.
>MY question is this, How does one Paint A whole
>figure copper?
There's always the NMM approach... If you do it, and do it well, I practically
guarantee that you win Best Painted in any event.
From a more practical standpoint, I'd prime black, preshade bright orange,
basecoat Tin Bitz (brown metal), drybrush Gold, Orange wash, feather highlight
Gold.
Personally, I don't think that the warm/dark metallics suit the SM models very
well. How about: white armour (shade SW pale blue-grey), orange shouldpads w/
black insigna, copper trims (shoulderpad trim, skulls, eagles, helmets), black
weapons, metallic blue eyes and blue cabling contrasts. This gives you
black-white and orange-blue contrasts, with the emphasis on the orange/copper;
the orange/copper will jump out more.
--
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Silver Sorcerer
> OK. Play as an Iron Hands successor.
Was going to do as much. Mind reader. :)
> I would use yellow or gold trim in the pads, keeping the edging in copper.
I
> don't think silver would look quite so good directly against copper.
I think I may go with Gold...
> There's always the NMM approach... If you do it, and do it well, I
practically
> guarantee that you win Best Painted in any event.
NMM? Whats this? Or can I dig it up in the Faq?
John Hwang
>> OK. Play as an Iron Hands successor.
>
>Was going to do as much. Mind reader. :)
See??? :)
>> I would use yellow or gold trim in the pads, keeping
>>the edging in copper. I don't think silver would look
>>quite so good directly against copper.
>
>I think I may go with Gold...
OK. You might try test painting a few models to see which schemes you like
better and find easier.
>> There's always the NMM approach...
>NMM? Whats this? Or can I dig it up in the Faq?
Non-Metallic Metal.
NMM is the "hot" painting technique that's all the rage among miniatures
painters. It is a highly-involved painting technique developed by painters for
painters. It takes somewhere between 3 to 10 times as long as normal, yet is
indistinguishable to the layman.
NMM uses non-metallic paint to represent a metallic object. Like an oil
painting.
IMHO, if you have to ask what NMM is, you shouldn't consider it.
Silver Sorcerer
> IMHO, if you have to ask what NMM is, you shouldn't consider it.
Fair enough. My thanks for the info.
doug houseman
primer, you can use them. There is even aged copper available at most
large paint stores. Since I do not have an air brush and I paint
hundreds of mini's - I use a lot of spray paint that was designed for
other purposes... Test what ever paint you buy on some left over sprue -
paint it like you did the figure with the primer, then do a test and let
it dry.
Doug
In article <YQruc.26439$Ly.946@attbi_s01>,
Robert Singers
Base coat with green or black. Do a heavy dry brush with copper. Mix a
little silver in and lightly drybrush where you want highlights. If you
have to wash with a flesh or chestnut ink. However you probably want to
stay away from washes and do very fine blacklining instead.
--
Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Blue Raja
news:20040530164723...@mb-m06.news.cs.com...
> NMM is the "hot" painting technique that's all the rage among miniatures
> painters. It is a highly-involved painting technique developed by
painters for
> painters. It takes somewhere between 3 to 10 times as long as normal, yet
is
> indistinguishable to the layman.
So, umm, what's the point?
--
The Blue Raja
"Besides, true evil never shows itself by trying to legitimizing itself.
Take 'Raja, for example. He's an EVIL little bastard and doesn't have to
announce it to the world. He decimates the millions with polite,
conversation and leaves a wake of devastation in his path." - Butch
RGMW FAQ - By order of Yoda Bob
http://www.rgmw.org
Robert Singers
wisdom
> "John Hwang" wrote
>> NMM is the "hot" painting technique that's all the rage among miniatures
>> painters. It is a highly-involved painting technique developed by
>> painters for painters. It takes somewhere between 3 to 10 times as long
>> as normal, yet is indistinguishable to the layman.
>
> So, umm, what's the point?
Dude. The way John sees, grey is a vibrant colour and the indigenious
people of Australia are blonde. What do you expect he'd make of NMM!!
Pope Jubal
> "Silver Sorcerer" silversorcer...@insightbb.com wrote:
> >> OK. Play as an Iron Hands successor.
> >
> >Was going to do as much. Mind reader. :)
>
> See??? :)
>
> >> I would use yellow or gold trim in the pads, keeping
> >>the edging in copper. I don't think silver would look
> >>quite so good directly against copper.
> >
> >I think I may go with Gold...
>
> OK. You might try test painting a few models to see which schemes you like
> better and find easier.
>
> >> There's always the NMM approach...
>
> >NMM? Whats this? Or can I dig it up in the Faq?
>
> Non-Metallic Metal.
>
> NMM is the "hot" painting technique that's all the rage among miniatures
> painters. It is a highly-involved painting technique developed by painters for
> painters. It takes somewhere between 3 to 10 times as long as normal, yet is
> indistinguishable to the layman.
Some nice examples of NMM are
http://www.coolminiornot.com/51136
and
http://www.coolminiornot.com/34773
> NMM uses non-metallic paint to represent a metallic object. Like an oil
> painting.
Specifically, you make the NMM areas look like metal by painting on
extreme highlights from very dark to white or almost white to
represent the reflectivity of metal.
> IMHO, if you have to ask what NMM is, you shouldn't consider it.
I'd disagree that it's indistinguishable to the layman (although if
done well, it can be hard to tell in a photo) because the imaginary
light source used in NMM doesn't change when you move the mini, but
the effects can be quite striking when done well. I would absolutely
agree that you shouldn't consider NMM until you're already very
comfortable with a brush in your hand. I do think it's a nice tool to
add to the toolbox, though.
Pope Jubal
---
John Hwang
>"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote ...
>> NMM is the "hot" painting technique that's all the rage
>> among miniatures painters. It is a highly-involved
>> painting technique developed by painters for
>> painters. It takes somewhere between 3 to 10 times
>> as long as normal, yet is indistinguishable to the layman.
>
>So, umm, what's the point?
If you're painting for painters, then they'll go absolutely nuts over it. IOW,
it's for competition / showcase models.
If you're just gaming, leave it alone.
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote...
>> "Silver Sorcerer" silversorcer...@insightbb.com wrote:
>> >NMM? Whats this? Or can I dig it up in the Faq?
>>
>> Non-Metallic Metal.
>>
>> NMM is the "hot" painting technique that's all the rage
>> among miniatures painters. It is a highly-involved painting
>> technique developed by painters for painters. It takes
>> somewhere between 3 to 10 times as long as normal, yet
>>is indistinguishable to the layman.
>
>Some nice examples of NMM are
>
>http://www.coolminiornot.com/51136
IMO, this is looks enameled, not NMM.
>http://www.coolminiornot.com/34773
There's metallics in there???
>> NMM uses non-metallic paint to represent a metallic
>> object. Like an oil painting.
>
>Specifically, you make the NMM areas look like metal by
>painting on extreme highlights from very dark to white or
>almost white to represent the reflectivity of metal.
IMO, this usually looks "flinty".
In most NMM, they use a conventional Sky-Earth technique with a reflected
horizon..
>> IMHO, if you have to ask what NMM is, you shouldn't
>> consider it.
>
>I'd disagree that it's indistinguishable to the layman
Have you tried something NMM-flavored and shown them to a layman? I did. I
painted a couple of Empire Greatswords, one in traditional higlighted
metallics, the other following NMM black-white, as you described above. I
didn't manage to take it to a true Sky-Earth, as I was running out of time. In
any case, my girlfriend said the two looked teh same.
>(although if done well, it can be hard to tell in a photo)
>because the imaginary light source used in NMM doesn't
>change when you move the mini, but the effects can be quite
>striking when done well.
Again, it's totally lost on the layman.
>I would absolutely agree that you shouldn't consider NMM
>until you're already very comfortable with a brush in your
>hand. I do think it's a nice tool to add to the toolbox, though.
Definitely. But given that the average person looking at it has absolutely no
idea how hard it is, it's wasted on them,
Blue Raja
> Have you tried something NMM-flavored and shown them to a layman? I did.
I
> painted a couple of Empire Greatswords, one in traditional higlighted
> metallics, the other following NMM black-white, as you described above. I
> didn't manage to take it to a true Sky-Earth, as I was running out of
time. In
> any case, my girlfriend said the two looked teh same.
Ok, now scan them and show us!
Duke Merc Atreides
"Silver Sorcerer" <silversorcer...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:oUquc.27581$n_6.15886@attbi_s53...
base it black, drybrush with beaten brass, and then brown ink, makes a
failrl good copper colour
Qrab
johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
> mike_...@ghrsystems.com (Pope Jubal) wrote:
> >Some nice examples of NMM are
> >
> >http://www.coolminiornot.com/51136
>
> IMO, this is looks enameled, not NMM.
>
> >http://www.coolminiornot.com/34773
>
> There's metallics in there???
Yes, many parts of the model are metallic. Perhaps the technique isn't
just lost on the layman.
> >> NMM uses non-metallic paint to represent a metallic
> >> object. Like an oil painting.
> >
> >Specifically, you make the NMM areas look like metal by
> >painting on extreme highlights from very dark to white or
> >almost white to represent the reflectivity of metal.
>
> IMO, this usually looks "flinty".
>
> In most NMM, they use a conventional Sky-Earth technique with a reflected
> horizon..
The irony.
> >> IMHO, if you have to ask what NMM is, you shouldn't
> >> consider it.
> >
> >I'd disagree that it's indistinguishable to the layman
>
> Have you tried something NMM-flavored and shown them to a layman? I
> did. I painted a couple of Empire Greatswords, one in traditional
> higlighted metallics, the other following NMM black-white, as you
> described above. I didn't manage to take it to a true Sky-Earth, as
> I was running out of time. In any case, my girlfriend said the two
> looked teh same.
It isn't a fair comparison to show her two models that you painted at a
Games Day paint & take. I bet that if your girlfriend was shown a NMM
model painted by a professional/experienced painter she'd notice the
difference.
> >(although if done well, it can be hard to tell in a photo)
> >because the imaginary light source used in NMM doesn't
> >change when you move the mini, but the effects can be quite
> >striking when done well.
>
> Again, it's totally lost on the layman.
>
> >I would absolutely agree that you shouldn't consider NMM
> >until you're already very comfortable with a brush in your
> >hand. I do think it's a nice tool to add to the toolbox, though.
>
> Definitely. But given that the average person looking at it has
> absolutely no idea how hard it is, it's wasted on them,
What does this have to do with NMM being a nice tool to add to the
toolbox?
--
Be seeing you-
Qrab
sugarman
<the_blue_ra...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message
>news:20040606000329...@mb-m07.news.cs.com...
>> Have you tried something NMM-flavored and shown them to a layman? I did.
>I
>> painted a couple of Empire Greatswords, one in traditional higlighted
>> metallics, the other following NMM black-white, as you described above. I
>> didn't manage to take it to a true Sky-Earth, as I was running out of
>time. In
>> any case, my girlfriend said the two looked teh same.
>
>Ok, now scan them and show us!
Not the original poster, but I found a really good example:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/index/imgid/43693/m/GW
Mostly the blades.
--sugarman--
Robert Singers
> It isn't a fair comparison to show her two models that you painted at a
> Games Day paint & take. I bet that if your girlfriend was shown a NMM
> model painted by a professional/experienced painter she'd notice the
> difference.
http://www.larryleadhead.org/index.html
John Hwang
> johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
>> mike_...@ghrsystems.com (Pope Jubal) wrote:
>
>> >Some nice examples of NMM are
>> >
>> >http://www.coolminiornot.com/51136
>>
>> IMO, this is looks enameled, not NMM.
>>
>> >http://www.coolminiornot.com/34773
>>
>> There's metallics in there???
>
>Yes, many parts of the model are metallic. Perhaps the
>technique isn't just lost on the layman.
I had something completely different (mostly woodlands with a single model with
a metal weapon) come up when I tried to view this the first time.
>> Have you tried something NMM-flavored and shown them to
>> a layman? I did. I painted a couple of Empire Greatswords,
>> one in traditional higlighted metallics, the other following
>> NMM black-white, as you described above. I didn't manage to
>> take it to a true Sky-Earth, as I was running out of time. In any
>> case, my girlfriend said the two looked teh same.
>
>It isn't a fair comparison to show her two models that you painted
>at a Games Day paint & take.
For similar scale of effort, sure it is.
>I bet that if your girlfriend was shown a NMM
>model painted by a professional/experienced painter she'd
>notice the difference.
That is very hard to say. You would be amazed how little the layperson can
tell when they look at minis.
>> Definitely. But given that the average person looking at it has
>> absolutely no idea how hard it is, it's wasted on them,
>
>What does this have to do with NMM being a nice tool to add
>to the toolbox?
Oh, itt's nice from an academic standpoint. However, I look at this like my
knowledge of Thermodynaics and Fluids. Stuff that one knows, but is useless in
normal situations. There's little point in spending so much effort if nobody
will appreciate it.
This is why I consider NMM strictly a technique to be used to impress other
painters. It is utterly useless for normal miniatures painting.
Some of us have a lot of minis to paint. If the payoff is small compared to
the time investment, why bother?
Qrab
johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
> Qrab qr...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> > johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) wrote:
> >> mike_...@ghrsystems.com (Pope Jubal) wrote:
> >
> >> >Some nice examples of NMM are
> >> >
> >> >http://www.coolminiornot.com/51136
> >>
> >> IMO, this is looks enameled, not NMM.
> >>
> >> >http://www.coolminiornot.com/34773
> >>
> >> There's metallics in there???
> >
> >Yes, many parts of the model are metallic. Perhaps the technique
> >isn't just lost on the layman.
>
> I had something completely different (mostly woodlands with a single
> model with a metal weapon) come up when I tried to view this the
> first time.
That explains that then.
> >> Have you tried something NMM-flavored and shown them to a layman?
> >> I did. I painted a couple of Empire Greatswords, one in
> >> traditional higlighted metallics, the other following NMM
> >> black-white, as you described above. I didn't manage to take it
> >> to a true Sky-Earth, as I was running out of time. In any case,
> >> my girlfriend said the two looked teh same.
Damn, I forgot to get this dig in:
All your stuff looks gray anyway, I'd been surprised if your girlfriend
could have seen a difference between the two!
> >It isn't a fair comparison to show her two models that you painted
> >at a Games Day paint & take.
>
> For similar scale of effort, sure it is.
No it's not. You've already admitted that you don't have a lot of
experience using the NMM technique. For your skill level, a paint & take
is not the proper environment for producing NMM results that would be
appreciable by a non-painter.
> >I bet that if your girlfriend was shown a NMM model painted by a
> >professional/experienced painter she'd notice the difference.
>
> That is very hard to say. You would be amazed how little the
> layperson can tell when they look at minis.
Funny, I've shown NMM models to a couple of different non-painters &
they've all been able to see the difference. The reason being is that I
showed them good NMM.
> >> Definitely. But given that the average person looking at it has
> >> absolutely no idea how hard it is, it's wasted on them,
> >
> >What does this have to do with NMM being a nice tool to add to the
> >toolbox?
>
> Oh, itt's nice from an academic standpoint. However, I look at this
> like my knowledge of Thermodynaics and Fluids. Stuff that one knows,
> but is useless in normal situations. There's little point in
> spending so much effort if nobody will appreciate it.
Just because your girlfriend doesn't appreciate your NMM efforts at a
paint & take does not mean that everybody else in the world won't
appreciate your NMM efforts if you sat down in the proper environment &
spent the needed time.
> This is why I consider NMM strictly a technique to be used to impress
> other painters. It is utterly useless for normal miniatures
> painting.
Bull. The non-painters I've shown good NMM to have been every bit as
impressed as I am with it.
> Some of us have a lot of minis to paint. If the payoff is small
> compared to the time investment, why bother?
When you do it right the pay off isn't small. Anyway, you're comments
are based on one person's comments - not very scientific if you ask me.
Maka
> > compared to the time investment, why bother?
>
> When you do it right the pay off isn't small. Anyway, you're comments
> are based on one person's comments - not very scientific if you ask me.
What do you know about science, you're not an Engineer.
-Maka
Qrab
M_St...@hotmail.com (Maka) wrote:
And for that I'm thankful!
Robert Singers
>> What do you know about science, you're not an Engineer.
>
> And for that I'm thankful!
LOL. You guys.
--
Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
John Hwang
>Damn, I forgot to get this dig in:
>
>All your stuff looks gray anyway, I'd been surprised if
>your girlfriend could have seen a difference between the
>two!
I'll have you know I just finished basecoating my Inquisitorial / Fallen Angels
Land Raider. It's Panzer Gray.
:)
>> For similar scale of effort, sure it is.
>
>No it's not.
Sure, it is. The NMM model is painted to a basic Confrontation standard, just
as the metal model is painted to a basic GW standard. And yes, it looks just
as "flinty" as Confrontation "metal".
>You've already admitted that you don't have a lot of
>experience using the NMM technique. For your skill level,
>a paint & take is not the proper environment for producing
>NMM results that would be appreciable by a non-painter.
Both of these are basic techniques. If I were to take the NMM to sky-earth, to
be comparable, I would have to take the metallic to a simiarly high level.
Indeed, one might even want 3rd model using MNMM (Metallic NMM) for comparison.
>> That is very hard to say. You would be amazed how
>> little the layperson can tell when they look at minis.
>
>Funny, I've shown NMM models to a couple of different
>non-painters & they've all been able to see the difference.
>The reason being is that I showed them good NMM.
Were you comparing identical models with identical paint schemes, and similar
levels of effort? If not, the comparison isn't valid.
>> There's little point in spending so
>> much effort if nobody will appreciate it.
>
>Just because your girlfriend doesn't appreciate your
>NMM efforts at a paint & take does not mean that
>everybody else in the world won't appreciate your
>NMM efforts if you sat down in the proper
>environment & spent the needed time.
True. And as I've consistently noted, NMM is great for minis that are being
painted for painters. It is not for rank-and-file models.
>> This is why I consider NMM strictly a technique to be
>> used to impress other painters. It is utterly useless
>> for normal miniatures painting.
>
>Bull. The non-painters I've shown good NMM to have
>been every bit as impressed as I am with it.
You've got an Empire army, right? You're telling me that you're going to paint
all of those Empire Knights in NMM to a level that would impress non-painters?
If so, I've got about 100 DoW and Empire minis in full plate / barding that I'd
be more than happy to let you take a crack at painting to a high NMM standard.
I have yet to see anybody field NMM models en masse, and until I do, I will
continue to state that NMM is for painting competitions.
>> Some of us have a lot of minis to paint. If the payoff is
>> small compared to the time investment, why bother?
>
>When you do it right the pay off isn't small.
OK. I can't wait to see all of yourEmpire cav demonstrating "good" sky-earth
NMM technique when next we meet. :)
>Anyway, you're comments are based on one person's
>comments - not very scientific if you ask me.
True, but at least I tested with identical minis in identical schemes, and
similar levels of effort.