[40K] Blood Angels Scout Squad / Space Marines Scout Squad
Jeremy Martin
have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
option?
Thanks.
--
Jeremy Martin
"It's either that or some disembodied electroplasm. I don't
believe in the supernatural."
- Pastor Frank, alt.atheism (08.31.2001)
St. Jason
>have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
>or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
>because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
>though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
>option?
Let me answer your question with another question.
Can I arm each and every memeber of my Imperal Guardsmen with Plasma Cannon? It
doesn't say I can't...
--
In nominae Santos Iasonvs
"I know I'm homophobic,
but not about gay guys.
It's straight guys who don't know they are gay.
They fuck my shit right up."
-King Missile, "Gay, Not Gay"
Just FAQ it: http://www.rgmw.org
Blue Raja
news:fm5jdvka6anmudqba...@4ax.com...
> If you are putting together a Blood Angels Scout Squad, do you
> have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
> or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
> because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
> though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
> option?
You've answered your own question: "the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing
doesn't have the option". Do you think that lets you use them?
Given there are so many *real* contradictions in the rules, how do
non-questions like this or the other favourite "can I take Land Speeder
Typhoon/Tornados in squadrons" even come up?
--
The Blue Raja
"GUARDIANS!!! INCREASE your SHURIKEN CATAPULT range by UP TO 3
INCHES!!!!!!!!" - Brad Hann
RGMW FAQ - By order of Yoda Bob
http://www.rgmw.org
Blue Raja
news:20030601033946...@mb-m16.aol.com...
> >If you are putting together a Blood Angels Scout Squad, do you
> >have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
> >or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
> >because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
> >though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
> >option?
>
> Let me answer your question with another question.
> Can I arm each and every memeber of my Imperal Guardsmen with Plasma
Cannon? It
> doesn't say I can't...
Doesn't say they aren't free either.
Now where did I put those metal Cadians...
Kurt
>>If you are putting together a Blood Angels Scout Squad, do you
>>have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
>>or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
>>because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
>>though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
>>option?
>
> Let me answer your question with another question.
> Can I arm each and every memeber of my Imperal Guardsmen with Plasma
> Cannon? It doesn't say I can't...
>
Welcome to "Chapter Approved According to John Hwang". I look forward to
fielding Hive Tyrants in Terminator armour.
--
K *Kill the nospam to reply*
To whom it may concern - clinical studies have shown that 89.3% of those
surveyed suggested that you might wish to try inserting a saguaro cactus
into one or more of your bodily orifices.
-- RGMW outtake
Jeremy Martin
>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>news:fm5jdvka6anmudqba...@4ax.com...
>> If you are putting together a Blood Angels Scout Squad, do you
>> have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
>> or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
>> because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
>> though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
>> option?
>
>You've answered your own question: "the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing
>doesn't have the option". Do you think that lets you use them?
>
>Given there are so many *real* contradictions in the rules, how do
>non-questions like this or the other favourite "can I take Land Speeder
>Typhoon/Tornados in squadrons" even come up?
Okay, so I'll take that as a no. We were contesting it, so I had
to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
play:
1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
have a much poorer weapon selection.
2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
buy a box of Death Company.
3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
Thanks for the answers.
--
Jeremy Martin
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural,
wholesome things that money can buy."
- Steve Martin
Kurt
> ("Blue Raja" <the_blue_ra...@iprimus.com.au>):
>
>>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>>news:fm5jdvka6anmudqba...@4ax.com...
>>> If you are putting together a Blood Angels Scout Squad, do you
>>> have to stick only to the unit listing in the Blood Angels codex,
>>> or can you give the Blood Angels Scout Squad sniper rifles
>>> because the regular Space Marine Scout Squads can have them,
>>> though the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing doesn't have the
>>> option?
>>
>>You've answered your own question: "the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing
>>doesn't have the option". Do you think that lets you use them?
>>
>>Given there are so many *real* contradictions in the rules, how do
>>non-questions like this or the other favourite "can I take Land Speeder
>>Typhoon/Tornados in squadrons" even come up?
>
> Okay, so I'll take that as a no. We were contesting it, so I had
> to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
> play:
>
> 1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
> difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
> have a much poorer weapon selection.
>
All chapters have a scout companies, it's where new recruits start out
before they become full brothers. BA don't use sniper rifles because they
aren't exactly renowned for their talents in sitting still and waiting.
> 2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
> buy a box of Death Company.
>
If it's not in the book, you can't do it. End of story. They could be
packed with barbed stranglers, doesn't mean you can use them.
> 3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
> consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
> when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
>
Can't help you there, don't have CA.
Jeremy Martin
>> 1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
>> difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
>> have a much poorer weapon selection.
>>
>All chapters have a scout companies, it's where new recruits start out
>before they become full brothers. BA don't use sniper rifles because they
>aren't exactly renowned for their talents in sitting still and waiting.
That's a fantastic, sensible response. Thanks.
>> 2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
>> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>> buy a box of Death Company.
>>
>If it's not in the book, you can't do it. End of story. They could be
>packed with barbed stranglers, doesn't mean you can use them.
This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
the plasma pistols in the sprue? I realize that they may be
against the rules, but why add confusion by placing them in the
sprues?
Thanks for the answers, though.
--
Jeremy Martin
"How cool would eating be if the normal practice would be to
hurl acid into your food so that you can DRINK it?"
- Zebadaiah, SA Forums
Blue Raja
> 2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
> buy a box of Death Company.
IIRC that sprue has laspistols and autopistols as well, can you use those?
> 3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
> consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
> when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
Maybe a BA rule, but there's no general rule like that.
Kurt
>
>>> 1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
>>> difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
>>> have a much poorer weapon selection.
>>>
>>All chapters have a scout companies, it's where new recruits start out
>>before they become full brothers. BA don't use sniper rifles because
>>they aren't exactly renowned for their talents in sitting still and
>>waiting.
>
> That's a fantastic, sensible response. Thanks.
>
mainly because (IMHO) Scouts are an awesome poor man's assault squad, they
cost almost half as much, and only really miss out on the jump pack and 1pt
of armour. If you're the kind of person who takes Land Raiders but doesn't
transport much in them, they can take a ride in it.
>>> 2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
>>> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>>> buy a box of Death Company.
>>>
>>If it's not in the book, you can't do it. End of story. They could
>>be packed with barbed stranglers, doesn't mean you can use them.
>
> This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
> the plasma pistols in the sprue? I realize that they may be
> against the rules, but why add confusion by placing them in the
> sprues?
>
Back in the day you used to get all kinds of excellent crap on sprues.
Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be that at
the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified it was a
legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
Jeremy Martin
>It was twenty years ago today, Jeremy Martin taught the band to play
>> (Kurt <kur...@nospam.optushome.com.au>):
>>
>>>> 1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
>>>> difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
>>>> have a much poorer weapon selection.
>>>>
>>>All chapters have a scout companies, it's where new recruits start out
>>>before they become full brothers. BA don't use sniper rifles because
>>>they aren't exactly renowned for their talents in sitting still and
>>>waiting.
>>
>> That's a fantastic, sensible response. Thanks.
>>
>It would also be a fairly poor choice if the Black Rage descended, but
>mainly because (IMHO) Scouts are an awesome poor man's assault squad, they
>cost almost half as much, and only really miss out on the jump pack and 1pt
>of armour. If you're the kind of person who takes Land Raiders but doesn't
>transport much in them, they can take a ride in it.
Hey, that's a good thing for me to remember. Thanks.
>>>> 2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
>>>> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>>>> buy a box of Death Company.
>>>>
>>>If it's not in the book, you can't do it. End of story. They could
>>>be packed with barbed stranglers, doesn't mean you can use them.
>>
>> This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
>> the plasma pistols in the sprue? I realize that they may be
>> against the rules, but why add confusion by placing them in the
>> sprues?
>>
>Back in the day you used to get all kinds of excellent crap on sprues.
>Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
>that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be that at
>the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified it was a
>legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
See, that does make a lot of sense to me, but it's still a bit
frustrating, you know?
--
Jeremy Martin
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has
ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."
- Richard Dawkins
Kurt
> (Kurt <kur...@nospam.optushome.com.au>):
>>mainly because (IMHO) Scouts are an awesome poor man's assault squad,
>>they cost almost half as much, and only really miss out on the jump
>>pack and 1pt of armour. If you're the kind of person who takes Land
>>Raiders but doesn't transport much in them, they can take a ride in
>>it.
>
> Hey, that's a good thing for me to remember. Thanks.
>
assault rules it might even be feasible to slap a PF on a Vet Sgt.
>>Back in the day you used to get all kinds of excellent crap on sprues.
>> Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
>>that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be
>>that at the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified
>>it was a legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
>
> See, that does make a lot of sense to me, but it's still a bit
> frustrating, you know?
>
If it makes you feel better you can send them all to me.
Helicon_One
> (Kurt <kur...@nospam.optushome.com.au>):
> >> This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
> >> the plasma pistols in the sprue?
> >Back in the day you used to get all kinds of excellent crap on sprues.
> >Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
> >that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be that
at
> >the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified it was a
> >legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
>
> See, that does make a lot of sense to me, but it's still a bit
> frustrating, you know?
You're complaining about getting extras you can use elsewhere? Bitz For The
Bitz Box! :-)
Tim
--
----------------
Life is tough. It's tougher when you're stupid.
- Maka - Usenet out take
www.rgmw.org - the RGMW FAQ, ignore at your peril!
Jeremy Martin
>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>news:n4ljdv49ac94e59sg...@4ax.com...
>> (Kurt <kur...@nospam.optushome.com.au>):
>
>> >> This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
>> >> the plasma pistols in the sprue?
>
>> >Back in the day you used to get all kinds of excellent crap on sprues.
>> >Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
>> >that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be that
>at
>> >the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified it was a
>> >legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
>>
>> See, that does make a lot of sense to me, but it's still a bit
>> frustrating, you know?
>
>You're complaining about getting extras you can use elsewhere? Bitz For The
>Bitz Box! :-)
Honestly, it's my friend who is upset with it. I accept it as
being the rules--I was just asking to help clear it up, because I
figured I was right on it, but he wanted more people to comment.
:)
--
Jeremy Martin
"Scio me nihil scire."
- Socrates
LokPyrite
want more scouts they'll have to be BA scouts.
The Barbarian of WA!
LokPyrite
>to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
>play:
>
>1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
>difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
>have a much poorer weapon selection.
It limits you to only having one good scout squad, it's a game balance thang
>2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
>not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>buy a box of Death Company.
>
Death Company can only be armed with bolters or bolt pistol/CCW
>3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
>consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
>when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
>
You lost me there, I don't even know where that came from
>Thanks for the answers.
>
>--
>Jeremy Martin
>
>"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural,
>wholesome things that money can buy."
>- Steve Martin
>
>
The Barbarian of WA!
P Bowles
>difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
>have a much poorer weapon selection.
It's supposed to be a balancing factor that makes standard Marine armies look
more attractive than a BA cheesefest; that, and the thematic lack of heavy
weaponry in a Blood Angels army.
It doesn't work, not least because sniper rifle-armed Scouts aren't the world's
best deal to begin with, but mostly because the overpowered assault army has no
need for slow-firing anti-infantry heavy weapons anyway.
>2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
>not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>buy a box of Death Company.
Welcome to the wonderful world of GW packaging - I suspect those are the
Assault Marine arm sprues, thrown in the box for the close combat weapons and
bolt pistols. If the rules don't say that DC are allowed plasma pistols, they
aren't allowed them.
>3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
>consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
>when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
This makes no sense at all. You'll need the 2003 Annual for the new assault
rules anyway, and the answer to whatever question this is will be in there.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
>>> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>>> buy a box of Death Company.
>>>
>>If it's not in the book, you can't do it. End of story. They could be
>>packed with barbed stranglers, doesn't mean you can use them.
>
>This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
>the plasma pistols in the sprue? I realize that they may be
>against the rules, but why add confusion by placing them in the
>sprues?
Because GW hasn't made a specific Death Company sprue, but uses the plastic
close combat sprue it made for the Assault Marine box. It's the same reason
that the new Eldar Storm Guardians have shuriken catapults on the sprue, and
why Grey Slayers are packaged with a power fist they can't use. I believe
Devastators may have a flamer in their box too...
Philip Bowles
Jeremy Martin
>>3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
>>consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
>>when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
>
>You lost me there, I don't even know where that came from
Same here, the guy I was playing with claims there is some rule
like that in Chapter Approved, but I'm just not buying it. It
would be beyond dumb for their to be a rule to see if you can
move you characters within 2" of each other.
--
Jeremy Martin
"Someday, when I am rich, I will pay myself to severely
restructure your skeleton in a fashion most non-ergonomic."
- Bailey, PlanetCrap
Jeremy Martin
>>3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
>>consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
>>when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
>
>This makes no sense at all. You'll need the 2003 Annual for the new assault
>rules anyway, and the answer to whatever question this is will be in there.
It's actually not supposed to be an assault rule, but a rule for
whenever a unit is out of coherence. I'm still not buying that
the rule exists, and I'm waiting for him to find it today by
asking his other WH40K buddy where that rule was. (Granted, this
same guy he is asking happened to fuck him over on the rules
before..)
--
Jeremy Martin
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the
same box."
- Italian Proverb
Andrew Gray
>
> You've answered your own question: "the Blood Angels Scout Squad listing
> doesn't have the option". Do you think that lets you use them?
>
> Given there are so many *real* contradictions in the rules, how do
> non-questions like this or the other favourite "can I take Land Speeder
> Typhoon/Tornados in squadrons" even come up?
Because the rules are designed in such a manner that it looks as though
there are general sets: (Space Marine Scouts) or (Land Speeders), and
subsets: ((Blood Angel) Space Marine Scouts) and ((Tornado) Land
Speeders).
If this is the case, it's reasonable to assume properties propagate down
unless stated otherwise - (Space Marines) have power armour, so
therefore ((Devastator) Space Marines) do as well.
However, this isn't the case - (Tornado Land Speeders) are a different
set to (Land Speeders), not a subset, and thus rules don't propagate.
(Blood Angel Space Marine (Scouts)) are a different group to (Space
Marine (Scouts))... it's just worded in a manner liable to cause
confusion.
[Did this make sense to anyone? I can draw diagrams and talk about
inherent properties and implicit versus explicit permissions if need
be...]
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
P Bowles
<andre...@durham.ac.uk> writes:
>> Given there are so many *real* contradictions in the rules, how do
>> non-questions like this or the other favourite "can I take Land Speeder
>> Typhoon/Tornados in squadrons" even come up?
>
>Because the rules are designed in such a manner that it looks as though
>there are general sets: (Space Marine Scouts) or (Land Speeders), and
>subsets: ((Blood Angel) Space Marine Scouts) and ((Tornado) Land
>Speeders).
>
>If this is the case, it's reasonable to assume properties propagate down
>unless stated otherwise - (Space Marines) have power armour, so
>therefore ((Devastator) Space Marines) do as well.
Bad example, as Devastators' stat line does specifically mention their 3+ save.
In the BA Scouts case, since the army list specifically states that Blood
Angels can only take one Space Marine Scouts squad, it makes no sense at all to
suppose that Blood Angels Scouts have the same characteristics. Likewise, the
Land Speeder Tornado and Typhoon entries specifically state that a unit
consists of one Speeder with the listed armament, while the Land Speeder entry
states that a unit consists of three Speeders - looking at the 'Weapons'
section, we find that these are armed with a single weapon each.
Though they have similar characteristics, Land Speeders and Land Speeder
Tornados are as obviously different from one another as Tactical Space Marines
and Devastator Space Marines - you may as well ask whether a Tactical squad can
include four heavy weapons. The units have similar names, but then so do Tau
Pathfinders and Alaitoc Pathfinders, yet they are very dissimilar.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
<mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> writes:
>(pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles)):
>
>>>3) Is there a new rule in Chapter's Approved that makes
>>>consolidation no matter automatic, and you have to make a roll
>>>when you get within 2" to see if you're consolidated?
>>
>>This makes no sense at all. You'll need the 2003 Annual for the new assault
>>rules anyway, and the answer to whatever question this is will be in there.
>
>It's actually not supposed to be an assault rule, but a rule for
>whenever a unit is out of coherence.
Ah, that makes more sense (in the context of your question, not ruleswise) than
consolidation, but I've never heard of a rule like that.
Philip Bowles
Tanker
A quick trip to Codex: BA provided the following, that any model in
the squad can replace thier bolt pistol/CCW with a bolter or combat shotgun.
However it is noted further down the page, a listing for a regular scout
squad. The way I've understood it, when you see this, refer to the regular
Codex: SM, these guys can use sniper rifles. In essence you have a vanilla
scout squad painted in BA colors. In either case, both types are similiar
due to the "infiltrate" rule and "move thru cover". Where they differ, any
BA scout squad may "rage" from time to time and the sniper rifles will allow
you to pin as opposed to the shotguns. After reading all this however, I
wasn't able to find any information as to the AP of a shotgun. Anyone have
any ideas?
Tanker
Jimi
> wasn't able to find any information as to the AP of a shotgun. Anyone have
> any ideas?
Weapons table in Codex Space Marines, page 15 - as it happens, shotguns have
no AP.
Jimi
40k3 Mailing List - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/40k3/
My Ebay Auctions - http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/astronomican/
Jeremy Martin
I'm just hoping he doesn't come back today saying that his friend
verified it for him, because I'm not going to believe it until
they show me a page in CA where it says that there is something
extra you have to do to get back into coherency besides restoring
the 2" link.
--
Jeremy Martin
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
Jeremy Martin
It makes perfect sense to me, as it was the reason why my
question was asked.
--
Jeremy Martin
"There is no sense to me in elevating somebody above everybody
else just because they show their tits off."
- Bobby, SA Forums
Jeremy Martin
So, you don't roll for Black Rage if you take a regular Space
Marines Scout Squad, even though they're all decked out in Blood
Angels colors and are part of that army? I assumed that they
would roll, because they are BA.
--
Jeremy Martin
"A man's conscience, like a warning line on the highway, tells
him what he shouldn't do - but it does not keep him from doing
it."
- Frank A. Clark
Jimi
> Marines Scout Squad, even though they're all decked out in Blood
> Angels colors and are part of that army? I assumed that they
> would roll, because they are BA.
They do roll for Black Rage.
Jimi
> squad. The way I've understood it, when you see this, refer to the regular
> Codex: SM, these guys can use sniper rifles. In essence you have a vanilla
> scout squad painted in BA colors.
Nope.
Its bad wording courtesy of GW. What they are saying is that the generic BA
scout squad has bp and ccw and may be upgraded according to the weapon
options in that entry. The inclusion of the SM scout squad entry allows you
to have a scout squad with greater variation of weaponry (sniper rifles,
heavy weapons).
But they are all BA squads and follow normal BA rules.
Tanker
"Jimi" <sp...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:NPqCa.1230$P%5....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
> > After reading all this however, I
> > wasn't able to find any information as to the AP of a shotgun. Anyone
have
> > any ideas?
>
> Weapons table in Codex Space Marines, page 15 - as it happens, shotguns
have
> no AP.
>
>
> Jimi
>
Did note that, thanks, and discovered the same thing in the main rule
book. Was also informed by my eldest son, with regards to lack of shotgun
AP, that any target hit by such a weapon just takes their regular armor
save. He being more informed of these kinds of things, (hmmm......may
explain why my BA get their butts handed to them by his DA on a regular
basis). Again, thanks.
Tanker
Tanker
> ("Tanker" <4k...@cox.net>):
>
> >
**SNIP** That which was before.
> > A quick trip to Codex: BA provided the following, that any model in
> >the squad can replace thier bolt pistol/CCW with a bolter or combat
shotgun.
> >However it is noted further down the page, a listing for a regular scout
> >squad. The way I've understood it, when you see this, refer to the
regular
> >Codex: SM, these guys can use sniper rifles. In essence you have a
vanilla
> >scout squad painted in BA colors. In either case, both types are similiar
> >due to the "infiltrate" rule and "move thru cover". Where they differ,
any
> >BA scout squad may "rage" from time to time and the sniper rifles will
allow
> >you to pin as opposed to the shotguns. After reading all this however, I
> >wasn't able to find any information as to the AP of a shotgun. Anyone
have
> >any ideas?
>
> So, you don't roll for Black Rage if you take a regular Space
> Marines Scout Squad, even though they're all decked out in Blood
> Angels colors and are part of that army? I assumed that they
> would roll, because they are BA.
>
> --
> Jeremy Martin
>
They stand a chance to "rage" like the rest of the army.
Tanker
Tanker
> > However it is noted further down the page, a listing for a regular scout
> > squad. The way I've understood it, when you see this, refer to the
regular
> > Codex: SM, these guys can use sniper rifles. In essence you have a
vanilla
> > scout squad painted in BA colors.
>
> Nope.
>
> Its bad wording courtesy of GW. What they are saying is that the generic
BA
> scout squad has bp and ccw and may be upgraded according to the weapon
> options in that entry. The inclusion of the SM scout squad entry allows
you
> to have a scout squad with greater variation of weaponry (sniper rifles,
> heavy weapons).
>
> But they are all BA squads and follow normal BA rules.
>
>
> Jimi
>
Agreed, seems I may have closed the barn door before I put the horse
in.
Tanker
Jimi
No probs.
Jeremy Martin
>They stand a chance to "rage" like the rest of the army.
That's what I figured, but this part of your post confused me,
which is why I asked:
"Where they differ, any BA scout squad may "rage" from time to
time"
Thanks. :)
--
Jeremy Martin
"As soon go kindle fire with snow, as seek to quench the fire of
love with words."
- William Shakespeare
Jeremy Martin
>Okay, so I'll take that as a no. We were contesting it, so I had
>to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
>play:
Hey, I remembered another one.
My friend said that under the new assault rules, if a unit can't
make a sweeping advance because they are still in combat with
another unit that didn't retreat, they can still attempt to beat
the 2d6" fall back roll and, if so, they "hold" the unit in
combat.
Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
could fudge with rules to his advantage?
--
Jeremy Martin
"The combined IQ of everyone in PETA still wouldn't compete with
the shaving cream coated lab rats they dedicate their lives to
freeing."
- Livestock, SA Forums
Jimi
> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
There is a very simple answer to his "rules".....
....ask him to point the rule out in the rulebook! If it doesnt exist then
you know he's lying.
Jeremy Martin
>> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
>> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
>
>There is a very simple answer to his "rules".....
>
>....ask him to point the rule out in the rulebook! If it doesnt exist then
>you know he's lying.
Well, I have yet to play with the guy that I think may just be
making shit up. My friend says he'd actually try to keep the
rulebook away from you so you couldn't look up rules while
playing, and all that. "Oh, I need to look something up, give it
back.."
--
Jeremy Martin
"I think Bigfoot is blurry, that's the problem. It's not the
photographer's fault. Bigfoot is blurry. And that's extra scary
to me, because there's a large, out-of-focus monster roaming the
countryside. Run. He's fuzzy. Get outta here."
- Mitch Hedberg
Jimi
> rulebook away from you so you couldn't look up rules while
> playing, and all that.
To beat some people, always have your own rulebook and then you can confront
his BS.
Jeremy Martin
>> My friend says he'd actually try to keep the
>> rulebook away from you so you couldn't look up rules while
>> playing, and all that.
>
>To beat some people, always have your own rulebook and then you can confront
>his BS.
The Chapter Approved book is what I need to get, because that's
what he said it's in. Since we didn't have one, we really
couldn't look it up. I'll definitely be ordering that one..
doesn't it have a lot of new missions in it, too?
--
Jeremy Martin
"The American government has clothed itself in a technicolor
garment of lies ever since the first day Jesus got off his UFO
and proudly stated, 'don't mess with Texas.'"
- Lowtax, Something Awful
Helicon_One
> > My friend says he'd actually try to keep the
> > rulebook away from you so you couldn't look up rules while
> > playing, and all that.
>
> To beat some people, always have your own rulebook and then you can
confront
> his BS.
Even better, get your own rulebook and bind it in a nice heavy solid folder,
so if somebody starts making up rules you can smack them over the head with
it.
Tim
--
----------------
Life is tough. It's tougher when you're stupid.
- Maka - Usenet out take
www.rgmw.org - the RGMW FAQ, ignore at your peril!
Blue Raja
news:20030601114101...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> >2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
> >not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
> >buy a box of Death Company.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of GW packaging - I suspect those are the
> Assault Marine arm sprues, thrown in the box for the close combat weapons
and
> bolt pistols.
IIRC the DC box hasn't been updated since 2nd Ed. I wouldn't complain
though, that's the second best weapon sprue around (best being the Eldar
one).
--
The Blue Raja
"GUARDIANS!!! INCREASE your SHURIKEN CATAPULT range by UP TO 3
INCHES!!!!!!!!" - Brad Hann
RGMW FAQ - By order of Yoda Bob
http://www.rgmw.org
Blue Raja
<snip>
> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
Just go download the Trial Assault Rules from the GW site and read them for
yourself.
Blue Raja
news:slrnbdkb...@compsoc.dur.ac.uk...
I understand what you mean, but I can't think of any implicit rules
declarations, eg Devastators have power armour because their entry says they
have power armour, not because they're a subset of Space Marines (who happen
to have power armour).
Since there are no implicit declarations, instead having each units' rules
spelled out discretely in their entry, I don't see any reason to assume
inheritance of attributes.
Blue Raja
> Bad example, as Devastators' stat line does specifically mention their 3+
save.
> In the BA Scouts case, since the army list specifically states that Blood
> Angels can only take one Space Marine Scouts squad, it makes no sense at
all to
> suppose that Blood Angels Scouts have the same characteristics.
Additionally, the structure of C:BA is a mix of references to C:SM and new
entries, thus it's implied that the new entries in C:BA override those in
C:SM.
Blue Raja
> It makes perfect sense to me, as it was the reason why my
> question was asked.
So, as Phil said, do you think you can give Tactical squads 4 heavy weapons?
Blue Raja
news:hEqCa.57220$%42.39890@fed1read06...
<snip>
> After reading all this however, I
> wasn't able to find any information as to the AP of a shotgun. Anyone have
> any ideas?
Shotguns have AP of null, meaning any wounded model may take its save (if
any).
Jeremy Martin
>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>news:3jskdv4il6l81o5d8...@4ax.com...
><snip>
>> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
>> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
>
>Just go download the Trial Assault Rules from the GW site and read them for
>yourself.
I'm trying to find it on their site now, but I can't find it. Can
you point out where it is? Maybe I'll find it in the mean-time,
though..
--
Jeremy Martin
"If upon penetration you feel a prostate, you are actually
having sex with a man, and a dirty rotten lying man at that."
- JRE, jre.hostingcheck.com
Jeremy Martin
>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>news:mdfkdv4dmaoa87dha...@4ax.com...
>> It makes perfect sense to me, as it was the reason why my
>> question was asked.
>
>So, as Phil said, do you think you can give Tactical squads 4 heavy weapons?
I don't. Like I've already said, I asked that question for my
friend.
--
Jeremy Martin
"When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by
this sign; that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
- Jonathan Swift
Jeremy Martin
>("Blue Raja" <the_blue_ra...@iprimus.com.au>):
>
>>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>>news:3jskdv4il6l81o5d8...@4ax.com...
>><snip>
>>> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
>>> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
>>
>>Just go download the Trial Assault Rules from the GW site and read them for
>>yourself.
>
>I'm trying to find it on their site now, but I can't find it. Can
>you point out where it is? Maybe I'll find it in the mean-time,
>though..
I didn't find it on GW's site, but I found it somewhere else.
Technically, he couldn't pull that since we weren't using the
Trial Assault rules, but I definitely want to switch over to
them. Makes assaults go much faster, it looks. Thanks, Blue Raja.
--
Jeremy Martin
"I've got a free butt plug for the first one of you to say
'takes one to know one.' [...] Actually, it's just a cork. But
I'll sand down the edges before mailing it to the winner."
- Shadarr, PlanetCrap
Blue Raja
> I didn't find it on GW's site, but I found it somewhere else.
> Technically, he couldn't pull that since we weren't using the
> Trial Assault rules, but I definitely want to switch over to
> them. Makes assaults go much faster, it looks. Thanks, Blue Raja.
It also gives more power to squad upgrade characters (like Veteran Sergeants)
who can no longer be singled out in combat, making previously useless models
like Vet Serge w/ PF *much* more survivable.
Jeremy Martin
>"Jeremy Martin" <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> wrote in message
>news:2h9ldvkdifarnudqa...@4ax.com...
>> I didn't find it on GW's site, but I found it somewhere else.
>> Technically, he couldn't pull that since we weren't using the
>> Trial Assault rules, but I definitely want to switch over to
>> them. Makes assaults go much faster, it looks. Thanks, Blue Raja.
>
>It also gives more power to squad upgrade characters (like Veteran Sergeants)
>who can no longer be singled out in combat, making previously useless models
>like Vet Serge w/ PF *much* more survivable.
It also weakens independent characters, as they can no longer
single out those pesky models with the power weapons. I'm a bit
torn on how I feel about that, but overall I rather like the 4th
edition rules, if just to speed that phase of the game up.
--
Jeremy Martin
"[T]he tobacco industry has been facing an uphill legal battle
ever since the FDA realized the fact that cigarette companies
were mass manufacturing devices which murder people over a long
period of time. This is one of the main hazards of being in a
business that bases its business model around addicting people
to your product and then forcing them to die."
- Lowtax, Something Awful
P Bowles
<the_blue_ra...@iprimus.com.au> writes:
>IIRC the DC box hasn't been updated since 2nd Ed. I wouldn't complain
>though, that's the second best weapon sprue around (best being the Eldar
>one).
Bleh. Found a spare one lying around yesterday - the power axe and fist are
good, but I much prefer the newer-style plasma pistol, and exactly what use can
you find for a hand flamer these days?
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
<mrbu...@pattonisgod.com> writes:
>My friend said that under the new assault rules, if a unit can't
>make a sweeping advance because they are still in combat with
>another unit that didn't retreat, they can still attempt to beat
>the 2d6" fall back roll and, if so, they "hold" the unit in
>combat.
>
>Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
>could fudge with rules to his advantage?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this but the sweeping advance rules have
been completely changed and work as follows:
The loser takes a Morale test and, if he fails, attempts to flee 2D6". The
winner can consolidate or advance - if he advances, he rolls 2D6" and, if he
equals or beats the fleeing troops' score, they remain in combat, otherwise the
winner stays where he is and the enemy unit flees the full distance.
I think that's what you were trying to say so, yes, this is the way the rule
now works. The idea was to stop assault troops gaining the huge bonus of the
free sweeping advance moves - presumably, once the troops realise their enemy's
got away, they see no point in rushing after them.
Philip Bowles
Blue Raja
> >IIRC the DC box hasn't been updated since 2nd Ed. I wouldn't complain
> >though, that's the second best weapon sprue around (best being the Eldar
> >one).
>
> Bleh. Found a spare one lying around yesterday - the power axe and fist are
> good,
Power sword is ok too, if a bit thick.
> but I much prefer the newer-style plasma pistol,
Eh. Also it converts into a plasmagun well.
> and exactly what use can
> you find for a hand flamer these days?
Conversion for regular flamer? "Count as" flamer? Seraphim w/ 2 hand
flamers?
Jeremy Martin
I finally found a copy of the 4th edition assault rules, and I
understand it all quite a bit better. Though, technically, he
couldn't "hold" my troops in the game I played the other night
since we were not using the 4th edition assault rules.
I'm definitely switching over to them, though. I like how they
streamline things and make the assault go faster. I'm actually
starting to like the idea that independent characters will be
knocked down a notch with the rules, as well.
--
Jeremy Martin
"One wonders what would happen in a society in which there were
no rules to break. Doubtless everyone would quickly die of
boredom."
- Susan Howitch
P Bowles
<the_blue_ra...@iprimus.com.au> writes:
>"P Bowles" <pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030602043427...@mb-m29.aol.com...
>> >IIRC the DC box hasn't been updated since 2nd Ed. I wouldn't complain
>> >though, that's the second best weapon sprue around (best being the Eldar
>> >one).
>>
>> Bleh. Found a spare one lying around yesterday - the power axe and fist are
>> good,
>
>Power sword is ok too, if a bit thick.
I've obviously used that one, since it isn't on there.
>> but I much prefer the newer-style plasma pistol,
>
>Eh. Also it converts into a plasmagun well.
Using what as the base?
>> and exactly what use can
>> you find for a hand flamer these days?
>
>Conversion for regular flamer? "Count as" flamer?
With so many plastic flamers floating around, what's the point?
Seraphim w/ 2 hand
>flamers?
Given that you need a metal Seraphim base model to make it work, there's no
point - just use the one that exists.
Philip Bowles
Blue Raja
> >> but I much prefer the newer-style plasma pistol,
> >
> >Eh. Also it converts into a plasmagun well.
>
> Using what as the base?
Bolter w/ no magazine or lasgun.
> >> and exactly what use can
> >> you find for a hand flamer these days?
> >
> >Conversion for regular flamer? "Count as" flamer?
>
> With so many plastic flamers floating around, what's the point?
Variety :o)
> Seraphim w/ 2 hand
> >flamers?
>
> Given that you need a metal Seraphim base model to make it work, there's no
> point - just use the one that exists.
IIRC metal bp/bp Seraphim are cheaper to buy than hf/hf ones.
M Roberts
news:bbe1ou$10d$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> Even better, get your own rulebook and bind it in a nice heavy solid
folder,
> so if somebody starts making up rules you can smack them over the head
with
> it.
Now that has just got to be the best suggestion I've heard in a long while
:-)).
Surely this qualifies as an outtake ?
Cheers,
--
Martyn Roberts
RGMW Lurker
"No one in their right mind would ever want to play Necrons" - P Bowles
"Usenet - open mouth, insert foot, echo internationally" - Seen on Usenet
TombWorld4 - http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/~mrobs/
Helicon_One
They're good for making combi-flamers.
Blank Dave
> >> Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
> >>that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be
> >>that at the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified
> >>it was a legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
> >
> > See, that does make a lot of sense to me, but it's still a bit
> > frustrating, you know?
> >
> If it makes you feel better you can send them all to me.
Fuck that, send them to me!!! Space Wolves need plasma pistols by the ton!
--
Blank Dave
The above message is close captioned for the thinking impaired.
Keep the gene pool clean: Kill an idiot!
Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhoea ...Massive,
difficult to re-direct, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement, when you least expect it.
Gene Spafford
If you can't figure out how to e-mail me, I wouldn't want to talk to you
anyhow.
Andras Otto Schneider
pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) wrote:
Hand flamer= additional close combat weapon
AOS
"Those blast points are far too accurate
for Imperial Stormtroopers. Only Imperial
Special Effects Technicians are so precise"
Kurt
>> > See, that does make a lot of sense to me, but it's still a bit
>> > frustrating, you know?
>> >
>> If it makes you feel better you can send them all to me.
>
> Fuck that, send them to me!!! Space Wolves need plasma pistols by the
> ton!
>
But I'm more photogenic!
BTW, I need a copy of the Form Flame (preferably with me on it).
--
K *Kill the nospam to reply*
To whom it may concern - clinical studies have shown that 89.3% of those
surveyed suggested that you might wish to try inserting a saguaro cactus
into one or more of your bodily orifices.
-- RGMW outtake
Andrew Gray
The fuel bottles make excellent grenades, as always, and the body itself
can probably be used to make a half-decent core for a BFG scratchbuild
light cruiser (strap four of them together sans handles, do a little
carving & some detailing, and there's your stern...)
--
-Andrew Gray
shim...@bigfoot.com
Hobbes
news:Xns938DCD...@210.49.20.254:
> It was twenty years ago today, Jeremy Martin taught the band to play
>> (Kurt <kur...@nospam.optushome.com.au>):
>>
>>>> 1) Why is there even a Blood Angels Scouts Squad? The only
>>>> difference between it and the vanilla Scout Squad is that they
>>>> have a much poorer weapon selection.
>>>>
>>>All chapters have a scout companies, it's where new recruits start
>>>out before they become full brothers. BA don't use sniper rifles
>>>because they aren't exactly renowned for their talents in sitting
>>>still and waiting.
>>
>> That's a fantastic, sensible response. Thanks.
>>
> It would also be a fairly poor choice if the Black Rage descended, but
> mainly because (IMHO) Scouts are an awesome poor man's assault squad,
> they cost almost half as much, and only really miss out on the jump
> pack and 1pt of armour. If you're the kind of person who takes Land
> Raiders but doesn't transport much in them, they can take a ride in
> it.
>
>>>> 2) Can Death Company be armed with plasma pistols? The rules do
>>>> not mention them, yet they come attached to the sprue when you
>>>> buy a box of Death Company.
>>>>
>>>If it's not in the book, you can't do it. End of story. They could
>>>be packed with barbed stranglers, doesn't mean you can use them.
>>
>> This, on the other hand, completely baffles me. Why even include
>> the plasma pistols in the sprue? I realize that they may be
>> against the rules, but why add confusion by placing them in the
>> sprues?
>>
> Back in the day you used to get all kinds of excellent crap on sprues.
> Maybe they had a spot to fill and nothing planned, so added something
> that's just generally useful. Hard to say really. It may also be
> that at the stage that the figures were sculpted and being sprue-ified
> it was a legal choice in the Codex, but was then edited out.
>
>
Thats not like GW to include extra parts that could be useful.............
Jeremy Martin
>Thats not like GW to include extra parts that could be useful.............
In my last order, they threw in a bunch of extra bases, and two
Servo-Skulls for free. (Six dollar value, it was on the invoice
as everythign as being free.)
That wins my heart..
--
Jeremy Martin
"It's scary to think that the person with his finger on the biggest nuclear arsenal also is a firm believer in the world ending in a violent, fiery conflagration."
- Mr. Vega, on George W. Bush, alt.atheism
Butch I Spit On Your Grave
> "Helicon_One" <helic...@yahoo.co.spam.uk> wrote in message
> news:bbe1ou$10d$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Even better, get your own rulebook and bind it in a nice heavy solid
> folder,
> > so if somebody starts making up rules you can smack them over the head
> with
> > it.
>
> Now that has just got to be the best suggestion I've heard in a long while
> :-)).
>
> Surely this qualifies as an outtake ?
Outtake? That's just standard operating procedures.
--
b
r.g.m.w. FAQ at www.rgmw.org - Just read the damn thing.
"Flee, the Stoic Riders of Saim-Hann are upon us!
Our bolters are no match for their good posture!" -- Blue Raja
"I know you miss the Wainwrights, Bobby, but they
were weak and stupid people--and that's why
we have wolves and other large predators."
-- Gary Larson, The Far Side
Butch I Spit On Your Grave
> (Jeremy Martin <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com>):
>
> >Okay, so I'll take that as a no. We were contesting it, so I had
> >to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
> >play:
>
> Hey, I remembered another one.
>
> My friend said that under the new assault rules, if a unit can't
> make a sweeping advance because they are still in combat with
> another unit that didn't retreat, they can still attempt to beat
> the 2d6" fall back roll and, if so, they "hold" the unit in
> combat.
>
> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
Check GW's site, Jeremy. I think the latest "4th ed." assault rules are
still up there.
Jeremy Martin
>Jeremy Martin, (mrbu...@pattonisgod.com) wrote...
>> (Jeremy Martin <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com>):
>>
>> >Okay, so I'll take that as a no. We were contesting it, so I had
>> >to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
>> >play:
>>
>> Hey, I remembered another one.
>>
>> My friend said that under the new assault rules, if a unit can't
>> make a sweeping advance because they are still in combat with
>> another unit that didn't retreat, they can still attempt to beat
>> the 2d6" fall back roll and, if so, they "hold" the unit in
>> combat.
>>
>> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
>> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
>
>Check GW's site, Jeremy. I think the latest "4th ed." assault rules are
>still up there.
Yeah, I got this sorted out a bit ago. We played two games last
night using the latest version of the fourth edition assault
rules, and I have to say I like them quite a bit better.
--
Jeremy Martin
"The best way to quell your temptations, is to give in to them."
- Oscar Wilde
Butch I Spit On Your Grave
They have their good points but, really screw with alot of the Space
Wolves' unique abilities.
Jeremy Martin
>Jeremy Martin, (mrbu...@pattonisgod.com) wrote...
>> (Butch "I Spit On Your Grave" Hobson <f...@rgmw.org>):
>>
>> >Jeremy Martin, (mrbu...@pattonisgod.com) wrote...
>> >> (Jeremy Martin <mrbu...@pattonisgod.com>):
>> >>
>> >> >Okay, so I'll take that as a no. We were contesting it, so I had
>> >> >to ask. So now, I have three more questions that came up during
>> >> >play:
>> >>
>> >> Hey, I remembered another one.
>> >>
>> >> My friend said that under the new assault rules, if a unit can't
>> >> make a sweeping advance because they are still in combat with
>> >> another unit that didn't retreat, they can still attempt to beat
>> >> the 2d6" fall back roll and, if so, they "hold" the unit in
>> >> combat.
>> >>
>> >> Is that a rule, or something his dumbass friend made-up so he
>> >> could fudge with rules to his advantage?
>> >
>> >Check GW's site, Jeremy. I think the latest "4th ed." assault rules are
>> >still up there.
>>
>> Yeah, I got this sorted out a bit ago. We played two games last
>> night using the latest version of the fourth edition assault
>> rules, and I have to say I like them quite a bit better.
>
>They have their good points but, really screw with alot of the Space
>Wolves' unique abilities.
This I wouldn't know, as I don't know anything about the Space
Wolves. :)
--
Jeremy Martin
"You know there ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk."
- Tom Waits