How to get started painting? (Washes?)
Lars
Just recently started painting some Orc models (my first painting), and am
realy enjoying it... However - seeing some of the html-links to painted
models in here really shows me that I have go a lot to learn :-)
Can anyone recomend how to get some good "basic tips" for painting?
I could really use a beginners guide or somethnig like that!
Is there somewhere on the net? any books to be recomended?
Also - I have been experimenting with finishing my models by giving them a
quick paint with a very thin (and slightly darker) paint. The point being
to let the thin, dark paint go into all the difficult to reach cracks etc,
and create a shadow effect. I belive this is called "Washing"??? - and I
must be doing something wrong, as the paint does NOT only go into the
cracks and folds, but also everywhere else... Any ideas for what I am doing
wrong? How are you doing yours?
Is the paint still to thick? - Should I use Ink instead of paint? etc.
Any feedback would be nice
Kind Regards,
Lars (DEN)
Ancient Gamer
is to dry brush the highlights back in with the original color. To dry
brush get some paint on your brush and then wipe it off, use the residue
to lightly go over the area that is left.
something else you might try is to wash with a paint the same color but a
darker shade. once again you will need to hit the highlights with your
original color, or even use a lighter shade of the color. So Here is the
idea for Orks...
Primer and then base coat the skin a medium shade of green, wash with a
dark green and then drybrush with a light green.
--
Jim M
posted on this day, the 3628th of September in the year 1993...
To reply by e-mail catch the ZZZZZZ's in my addy...
"I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound they make as
they go flying by." -- Douglas Adams
"Look alive. Here comes a buzzard." -- Walt Kelly (Pogo)
"Watch it, I have a bar of soap...and I'm not afraid to use it!"
Paraphrasing myself
Robert Singers
> Hi Everyone
>
> Just recently started painting some Orc models (my first painting),
> and am realy enjoying it... However - seeing some of the html-links to
> painted models in here really shows me that I have go a lot to learn
> :-)
>
> Can anyone recomend how to get some good "basic tips" for painting?
> I could really use a beginners guide or somethnig like that!
> Is there somewhere on the net? any books to be recomended?
Go and check the links in the Paint section of rgmw.org.
> Also - I have been experimenting with finishing my models by giving
> them a quick paint with a very thin (and slightly darker) paint. The
> point being to let the thin, dark paint go into all the difficult to
> reach cracks etc, and create a shadow effect. I belive this is called
> "Washing"??? - and I must be doing something wrong, as the paint does
> NOT only go into the cracks and folds, but also everywhere else... Any
> ideas for what I am doing wrong? How are you doing yours?
> Is the paint still to thick? - Should I use Ink instead of paint? etc.
I use ink because basically I find it easier. You can use paint but I'd
advise thinning it with cold boiled water from your kettle (or distilled
water) with the smallest drop of dish washing liquid added. DWL is a
*wetting agent* and helps the wash settle into all the cracks.
If you want to get ink then I suggest you get Windsor and Newton Apple
Green, Burnt Sienna, and Nutbrown. I've read many people lately saying
that GW inks are W&N so buying the W&N inks gives you better bottles at
a cheaper price.
Now how to paint your Orcs.
First I hope you're cleaning off all the flashing, gluing it together,
washing it in DWl to remove finger and mould grease. Then using a
decent primer. I do mean primer not a coloured paint that someone like
GW calls A primer. Now there's the whole Black vs White primer
argument. I don't hold with any of that. I use Tamiya Fine grey
primer. I highly recommend it.
Next step the base coat. Paint all of the mini not worrying too much
about keeping within the 'lines'. You're really only interested in
blocking in the various colours and not doing any detail work.
When this is dry wash the green skin with Apple Green ink and the rest
of the mini with Nut brown. When this dries you should have a mini that
looks as good or better than a lot of people's finished attempts.
Prime, basecoat, and wash is also a got way to paint a whole squad or
two of minis.
Ok now for the highlighting. Looking at the mini you should see that
the Nut brown has done a good job of highlighting the armour and other
clothes. It works well on leather, fur, chain and paint. You should be
able to clean up any bubbles of ink that have dried in the wrong place
and then highlight points using a slightly lighter shade than the
basecoat. Fur should be dry brushed with two lighter tones. Make sure you
also clean up anywhere you've 'gone over the links'.
Any nails or teeth should painted your bone colour of choice. I find
with orcs that lilac type colours make great lips and that orange and
blue are great for scars and tattoos. Wash the base of the claws and
teeth, the tounge, and the weapon blade edge with Burnt Sienna.
Following these guidelines should give you an Orc that's of decent table
top quality. As you improve you can then look at using other techniques to
paint even better.
--
Rob Singers
RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
John Hwang
>Can anyone recomend how to get some good "basic tips" for painting?
>I could really use a beginners guide or somethnig like that!
>Is there somewhere on the net? any books to be recomended?
Try Google, both here, in RGMW, and also across the web.
Here's my version:
"http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c385d34a.0304270934.4c54afc6%40posti
ng.google.com"
>Also - I have been experimenting with finishing my models by giving them a
>quick paint with a very thin (and slightly darker) paint. The point being
>to let the thin, dark paint go into all the difficult to reach cracks etc,
>and create a shadow effect. I belive this is called "Washing"??? -
Yup.
>I must be doing something wrong, as the paint does NOT only go into the
>cracks and folds, but also everywhere else... Any ideas for what I am doing
>wrong? How are you doing yours?
1. Thin the paint more.
2. Add a bit of detergent to break surface tension. .
3. "Paint" the wash into the cracks, rather than just dipping the model.
>Is the paint still to thick? -
Probably.
>Should I use Ink instead of paint? etc.
Depends on the effect you're going for. Ink is inherently thinner than paint,
and will usually flow more; ink is also much "deeper" in color intensity.
--
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
P Bowles
<Lsm...@worldonline.dk> writes:
>Also - I have been experimenting with finishing my models by giving them a
>quick paint with a very thin (and slightly darker) paint. The point being
>to let the thin, dark paint go into all the difficult to reach cracks etc,
>and create a shadow effect. I belive this is called "Washing"??? - and I
>must be doing something wrong, as the paint does NOT only go into the
>cracks and folds, but also everywhere else... Any ideas for what I am doing
>wrong? How are you doing yours?
There are two ways round this - the GW-recommended way is to clear up the rest
with tissue paper, but I prefer to apply the wash to the basecoated model
*before* adding the final coats, so as to cover any 'smudges', while being
careful to avoid painting over cracks etc. Try to apply a wash as you do other
paints, by being as precise as possible in painting it on - ie, over the area
you want washed rather than the whole model (an exception is where the entire
model is textured so that you'll want most of it washed - say, a Wood Elf
Dryad). I've found that sometimes this can look a bit artificial as the
difference between a wahsed area and an unwashed area can be very sharp,
especially on smooth-surfaced models like a Falcon Grav Tank, and the answer is
drybrushing or, again, washing before applying the main colour.
Philip Bowles
Bart
I went from a hopeless painter to quite reasonable mainly online by using
this site
as it has some serious inspiration value and also some very useful guides
that include photographs and detailed explanations.
Prob. need cablemodem for general use, 56k could use the guides.
Bart
Andy
<<>>
>
> If you want to get ink then I suggest you get Windsor and Newton Apple
> Green, Burnt Sienna, and Nutbrown. I've read many people lately saying
> that GW inks are W&N so buying the W&N inks gives you better bottles at
> a cheaper price.
I read that n all.
Not so sure this is right.
Apple and nut brown by W&N are not acrylic inks, they're water
soluble.
Remain so even when dry.
Medium is shellac rather than acrylic.
Maybe W&N also make GW acrylic inks.
FI would be my recommendation for alternative inks.
Not particularly cheap though.
Cote d'arms are the "old" GW inks.
Also, miniature paints do some but dunno how widely available outside
the UK.
<<>>
> Next step the base coat. Paint all of the mini not worrying too much
> about keeping within the 'lines'. You're really only interested in
> blocking in the various colours and not doing any detail work.
I'd advise people to always try and be neat.
Unless you're going to black line after then it's easier to paint
within the lines and not have to fix stuff later.
Maybe I missed something in Rob's method.
Hot Friday afternoons are not my finest hours.
You could also try mixing a bit of acrylic varnish with your ink.
Particularly if you're using WN water soluble.
Johnson's Kleer floor varnish is good. Cheap as well.
Here's another method relies on transparency and hence pre-shading.
Prime black.
You may want to mix some dark brown (umber) in if you do this by hand.
Damp brush white.
This is easiest if you do two passes through a bunch of models at a
time.
Colour in.
Work from the inside out.
For each colour.
Mix the same colour paint with acrylic ink and water.
Liquitex acrylic paint is particularly suitable for this.
Stain appropriate area(s) on each model in the batch in turn.
Apply fairly thinly and evenly and avoid pooling.
Fix and re-inforce lo-lites with a dark shade of your colour.
Apply hi-lights.
Some people at our club have experimented with blocking in and then
just using ink for lo-lights.
This looks OK on 15mil figures but I'm not so sure about larger scale.
Their method is.
White undercoat the model.
Block in colours with paints using deliberately slightly brighter than
you intend the model to look.
Wash over with winsor newton nut brown or peat.
In some cases I noticed they seemed to have reinforced particularly
obvious shadows with a light black line technique.
Their results were pretty good iirc.
I think they also must touch em up a bit later.
Rob Singers
wisdom
> Robert Singers wrote
>>
>> If you want to get ink then I suggest you get Windsor and Newton
>> Apple Green, Burnt Sienna, and Nutbrown. I've read many people
>> lately saying that GW inks are W&N so buying the W&N inks gives you
>> better bottles at a cheaper price.
>
> I read that n all.
> Not so sure this is right.
> Apple and nut brown by W&N are not acrylic inks, they're water
> soluble.
> Remain so even when dry.
> Medium is shellac rather than acrylic.
>
> Maybe W&N also make GW acrylic inks.
>
> FI would be my recommendation for alternative inks.
> Not particularly cheap though.
> Cote d'arms are the "old" GW inks.
> Also, miniature paints do some but dunno how widely available outside
> the UK.
I can find no evidence that HMG Ltd of Manchester that (I believe) makes
the old GW paints, Coat d' Arms, and most likely the Foundry Paint
Systems also makes the GW inks.
I also don't know why you think that GW inks are acrylic inks rather
than shellac inks. In my experience both GW ink and W&N behave the
same. I could be wrong. I'm basing my opinion completely on
observation.
So in reality the better bottles for the better price and a better
colour range puts W&N above GW in terms of what I recommend people
purchase. J Wirth from Renaissance Ink posts in the mini news groups
and I've never seen bad reviews of his inks so they are also a
possibility. Barring him sending me some product to test I can't
personally endorse it. Other regs here might be able too.
>
> <<>>
>> Next step the base coat. Paint all of the mini not worrying too much
>> about keeping within the 'lines'. You're really only interested in
>> blocking in the various colours and not doing any detail work.
>
> I'd advise people to always try and be neat.
> Unless you're going to black line after then it's easier to paint
> within the lines and not have to fix stuff later.
> Maybe I missed something in Rob's method.
> Hot Friday afternoons are not my finest hours.
What you're missing is comprehension of what I'm saying. I've been
painting minis for about 20 years. One of the things I know very well is
how not to get a mini finished. I've also spent tens of hours painting
an Orc chief, creating textured effects with the paint, only to have the
paint job destroyed when a GF knocked it off the mantelpiece.
I've also in the last eight or so years had to spend a lot of time
training people in their first job or working in IT for the first time.
One of the things that I've learned from that is to help them see
progress in a reasonable amount of time. Learning painting is the same.
You need to see the desired result but you need to actually have to see
progress. You get better over time through experience so the important
thing is to help people get a squad painted. When they see it on the
tabletop they'll be able to see where they need to improve but if they
spend two weeks putting the first coat of paint on they're likely never
to improve.
Hence "not worrying too much" is the important part of that sentence.
Here's another technique if you're interested.
Prime with Tamiya fine grey primer.
Wash with Black W&N ink mixed 50:50 with water (with a dash of DWL).
When dry paint _up_ from the shaded areas with between one and three
shades of the desired colour, dark to light.
This is actually a very good test method if you have a bunch of the same
(or similar) mins and you can't quite picture the finished mini, and
hence are stuck on how to start. It relies solely on the geometry of
the mini.
One you see the final result you can then make better decisions on how
to paint the rest.
Myrmidon
rsin...@finger.hotmail.com, Rob Singers shouted out the following words
of wit...
> Andy startled all and sundry by ejaculating the following words of
> wisdom
> > Robert Singers wrote
> >>
> >> If you want to get ink then I suggest you get Windsor and Newton
> >> Apple Green, Burnt Sienna, and Nutbrown. I've read many people
> >> lately saying that GW inks are W&N so buying the W&N inks gives you
> >> better bottles at a cheaper price.
> >
> > I read that n all.
> > Not so sure this is right.
> > Apple and nut brown by W&N are not acrylic inks, they're water
> > soluble.
> > Remain so even when dry.
> > Medium is shellac rather than acrylic.
> >
> > Maybe W&N also make GW acrylic inks.
> >
> > FI would be my recommendation for alternative inks.
> > Not particularly cheap though.
> > Cote d'arms are the "old" GW inks.
> > Also, miniature paints do some but dunno how widely available outside
> > the UK.
>
> I can find no evidence that HMG Ltd of Manchester that (I believe) makes
> the old GW paints, Coat d' Arms, and most likely the Foundry Paint
> Systems also makes the GW inks.
>
saying that just as they made the older GW paints, they may have made the
older GW inks as well.
> I also don't know why you think that GW inks are acrylic inks rather
> than shellac inks. In my experience both GW ink and W&N behave the
> same. I could be wrong. I'm basing my opinion completely on
> observation.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there. I can look, but from
personal experience there isn't any such thing as an 'acrylic' ink.
Acrylic is a polymer based plastic, which don't have anywhere near the
same flow characteristics that shellac and/or other pigment vehicles would
that are a necessity for ink work. It's why there's generally a
discernible difference between ink washes and acrylic washes. Ink is
generally very fine pigment particles designed to be used in a much more
liquid vehicle. Acrylic particles don't have to be nearly as finely
ground (though the really expensive artists paints are) since they're
being suspended in a polymer plastic vehicle.
>
> So in reality the better bottles for the better price and a better
> colour range puts W&N above GW in terms of what I recommend people
> purchase. J Wirth from Renaissance Ink posts in the mini news groups
> and I've never seen bad reviews of his inks so they are also a
> possibility. Barring him sending me some product to test I can't
> personally endorse it. Other regs here might be able too.
>
The RI stuff from Jay Wirth has gotten extremely good reviews from
Dr. Faust. (On a side note: - Damn can he paint! I got to see some of
his stuff up close {some sweet looking Eldar} at the Brookhurst Hobby
booth at GenCon. The man has a definite eye for color and a talent for
fine detail work.)
> >
> > <<>>
> >> Next step the base coat. Paint all of the mini not worrying too much
> >> about keeping within the 'lines'. You're really only interested in
> >> blocking in the various colours and not doing any detail work.
> >
> > I'd advise people to always try and be neat.
> > Unless you're going to black line after then it's easier to paint
> > within the lines and not have to fix stuff later.
> > Maybe I missed something in Rob's method.
> > Hot Friday afternoons are not my finest hours.
>
> What you're missing is comprehension of what I'm saying. I've been
> painting minis for about 20 years. One of the things I know very well is
> how not to get a mini finished. I've also spent tens of hours painting
> an Orc chief, creating textured effects with the paint, only to have the
> paint job destroyed when a GF knocked it off the mantelpiece.
>
> I've also in the last eight or so years had to spend a lot of time
> training people in their first job or working in IT for the first time.
> One of the things that I've learned from that is to help them see
> progress in a reasonable amount of time. Learning painting is the same.
> You need to see the desired result but you need to actually have to see
> progress. You get better over time through experience so the important
> thing is to help people get a squad painted. When they see it on the
> tabletop they'll be able to see where they need to improve but if they
> spend two weeks putting the first coat of paint on they're likely never
> to improve.
>
> Hence "not worrying too much" is the important part of that sentence.
>
Hehe, I've seen the same in a lot of fine art classes. Good people
who were afraid to 'ruin' a good piece of paper or canvas by making bad
art. To quote one of the more useful art instructors I studied with -
"You have to dare to suck." In other words, the only way to learn to
paint is BY PAINTING. Sure, you can ask for help and view others
solutions to technical problems - but until you actually 'go through the
process' you don't really 'know the process' and have it internalized, you
simply know of it.
Sure, making fewer mistakes means spending less time correcting them later
- but you make fewer brush handling mistakes by becoming physically adept
at handling a brush. In other words you have to paint to learn how to
handle a paint brush. Granted a good teacher can save you a lot of trial
and error, but in the end one still has to pick up the brush to learn.
> Here's another technique if you're interested.
>
> Prime with Tamiya fine grey primer.
>
> Wash with Black W&N ink mixed 50:50 with water (with a dash of DWL).
Try 'flow aid' by Liquitex. It's a material designed to do what you
want it to (as in act as a surfactant or surface agent) but it'll have a
lot less potential to cause problems with your paint (like pigment
clumping, etc.)
>
> When dry paint _up_ from the shaded areas with between one and three
> shades of the desired colour, dark to light.
>
> This is actually a very good test method if you have a bunch of the same
> (or similar) mins and you can't quite picture the finished mini, and
> hence are stuck on how to start. It relies solely on the geometry of
> the mini.
>
> One you see the final result you can then make better decisions on how
> to paint the rest.
>
Actually, if you're a true mini painting die-hard, you could do the
entire mini in gray scale (i.e. from black to white) and then color it by
applying lots of thin washes to various areas to build up layers of color.
Oil painters do it with human portraits and still lifes with tremendously
good results.
Myrmidon
--
...unless of course you are a total cheese stick and want to
exploit the wording of rules to do something stupid and turn
your gaming experience into counting the number of frowny
faces looking at you, as opposed to enjoying a good ol sci fi
wargame.
GW games. Common sense not included.
--SupAmaN
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
Andy O'Neill
news:MPG.199e1d59e...@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> In article <Xns93D26FCF5...@202.20.93.13>,
<<>>
> > > FI would be my recommendation for alternative inks.
Should read FW.
> > > Not particularly cheap though.
> > > Cote d'arms are the "old" GW inks.
> > > Also, miniature paints do some but dunno how widely available outside
> > > the UK.
> >
> > I can find no evidence that HMG Ltd of Manchester that (I believe) makes
> > the old GW paints, Coat d' Arms, and most likely the Foundry Paint
> > Systems also makes the GW inks.
The Cote d'arms range includes product corresponds to the "old" GW inks.
The word "old" was intended to differentiate between the previous range of
inks and the current.
My assumption being that "everyone" knew GW had changed suppliers.
I'd be very surprised if it was the same company makes the current GW inks
as the Cote d'arms ones.
> >
> I don't think he means they make the current GW inks - I think he's
> saying that just as they made the older GW paints, they may have made the
> older GW inks as well.
Indeed.
>
> > I also don't know why you think that GW inks are acrylic inks rather
> > than shellac inks. In my experience both GW ink and W&N behave the
> > same. I could be wrong. I'm basing my opinion completely on
> > observation.
>
> Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there. I can look, but from
> personal experience there isn't any such thing as an 'acrylic' ink.
I misrecalled the name of the inks.
Sorry about that.
Daler-Rowney FW acrylic ink.
3.10 for 29.5ml
Definitely, acrylic.
See
http://www.daler-rowney.com/prod_catalogue/disp_Products.asp?category=6&brand=16
Both these and miniature paints acrylic inks have a very fine particulate
settles out which you have to shake up.
Miniature paints acrylic inks are 95p for 15ml.
Winsor Newton inks are 2.10 for 14ml.
Can't find a price online for cote d'arms
The old GW washes and hence cote d'arms are definitely acrylic inks.
The only new style ink I've used is the flesh wash and this appears to be
acrylic to me.
Let some dry and see if it still dissolves in water.
If it does then it's shellac based, if it doesn't then it's probably acrylic
ink.
Rob Singers
of wisdom
>> > I can find no evidence that HMG Ltd of Manchester that (I believe)
>> > makes the old GW paints, Coat d' Arms, and most likely the Foundry
>> > Paint Systems also makes the GW inks.
>
> The Cote d'arms range includes product corresponds to the "old" GW
> inks. The word "old" was intended to differentiate between the
> previous range of inks and the current.
> My assumption being that "everyone" knew GW had changed suppliers.
> I'd be very surprised if it was the same company makes the current GW
> inks as the Cote d'arms ones.
Let me rephrase that. I can find no evidence that HMG ever made inks. If
anyone has any evidence (no conjecture) that they make inks as well as
paints I'll be interested to hear it.
I don't dispute that GW changed suppliers for the paint.