[paint] Could someone suggest......
trakad
brushes for a new WFB player. I've looked at GW and Reaper online but am
not sure. Any help would be great
Myrmidon
Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> I was wondering if anybody could suggest a good starter set of paints and
> brushes for a new WFB player. I've looked at GW and Reaper online but am
> not sure. Any help would be great
Well, there are a number of resources that can assist you on this
subject. If you look on RGMW's own web site you'll find an entire
section of links and articles on this very subject...
First question is - how much do you want to spend? I've tried a variety
of paints, and I'm not a huge fan of the GW range - especially the older
bottles that tended to dry out way to fast due to poor container design.
If you're trying to save money, there are many better priced
alternatives to most of the colors GW makes - I use 95% non-GW colors
when it comes to painting my own figures. I've used Vallejo and liked
them (especially their flesh tones) a lot, a bit of Reaper (mainly their
inks which are decent), Tamiya - mainly for their metallic colors, and a
great deal of the Plaid/Folk Arts craft paints - which surprisingly
enough provide solid colors and excellent value for the money. There's
even some excellent choices of gold and antique gold/copper in the craft
paint lines that are surprisingly good for the price. For brighter hues
and stronger colors like oranges and purples, there's even artists grade
acrylic paints like Liquitex that are a good value.
Once you're on the rgmw web site - check out the links to the various
painting 'how to' sites, as well as the 'brush care' article. You're
better off spending a bit more money on a quality paint brush set and
taking good care of it than you buying a cheapo set that will give poor
paint application results and wear out faster to boot.
Also, if you want enough minis painting conversation to make your eyes
bleed - check out the mini painter yahoo email group at...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mini-painter/
Hope that helps,
Myrmidon
--
#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.
- Eric Noland
# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army
- Roy Cox
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/gwprice/
****
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
Karyth Teel
"trakad" <tra...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:7hdKd.9241$IJ5.6617@okepread02...
> I was wondering if anybody could suggest a good starter set of paints and
> brushes for a new WFB player. I've looked at GW and Reaper online but am
> not sure. Any help would be great
Well, now that GW switched to the "flip-top" lids from the screw on sort, I
can recommend both GW and Reaper, paints as being completely serviceable.
That said, there are both better options and cheaper options that really
deserve a look. In the US, Delta Ceramcoat paints, Apple Barrel paints,
etc. can be found at Walmart, Micheals, JoAnn's and other craft stores for
less than a buck a bottle. With only a handful of exceptions (bright reds,
metallics, yellow) they work just as well as GW paints for far less money.
One there, pick up the Plaid Essentials paintbrushes for a very reasonable
cost as well.
If you're looking for quality, take a glance at Vallejo Model Color or Game
Color. While most places charge more for them, they're worth it IMO.
Poking around will net you their "kits," which are selections of colors in a
variety of themes.
For completely biased advice, I'd buy Vallejos for Metals, bright colors,
and anything that you really want to look sharp and craft paints for block
work.
Karyth Teel
Karyth Teel
"Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c6335db7...@news-server.woh.rr.com...
> In article <7hdKd.9241$IJ5.6617@okepread02>, trakad, tra...@cox.net
> Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> > I was wondering if anybody could suggest a good starter set of paints
and
> > brushes for a new WFB player. I've looked at GW and Reaper online but
am
> > not sure. Any help would be great
>
> Well, there are a number of resources that can assist you on this
> subject. If you look on RGMW's own web site you'll find an entire
> section of links and articles on this very subject...
>
> http://www.rgmw.org
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Myrmidon
It may just be mw, but it does seem that we get this question a lot, and the
conventional wisdom seems to be the same. Is there any way we could simply
type up a "how to buy paints" article? As an aside, I'd love to put up a
"how to start painting Minis for under $50" article that stresses the joys
of the Walmart craft aisle. While I'm slowly upgrading to Vallejo paints,
my initial discovery of Ceramcote allowed me to double my pallete for $20.
Karyth Teel
Robert Singers
> It may just be mw, but it does seem that we get this question a lot,
> and the conventional wisdom seems to be the same. Is there any way we
> could simply type up a "how to buy paints" article? As an aside, I'd
> love to put up a "how to start painting Minis for under $50" article
> that stresses the joys of the Walmart craft aisle. While I'm slowly
> upgrading to Vallejo paints, my initial discovery of Ceramcote allowed
> me to double my pallete for $20.
Write it and send it to me.
--
Rob Singers RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Brad Hann
> can recommend both GW and Reaper, paints as being completely serviceable.
I've found that the GW paints in the current-style flip-top lids are
incredibly watery and don't provide decent coverage even with six or
seven coats. It's not just one or two in a bad batch, it's every single
pot I've bought since the new lot came out.
Brad
--
Don't bother with the yahoo address - I never read it.
bjhann at hotkey dot net dot au
Janet Quick
Teel" <sp...@case.edu> wrote:
>
> It may just be mw, but it does seem that we get this question a lot, and the
> conventional wisdom seems to be the same. Is there any way we could simply
> type up a "how to buy paints" article? As an aside, I'd love to put up a
> "how to start painting Minis for under $50" article that stresses the joys
> of the Walmart craft aisle. While I'm slowly upgrading to Vallejo paints,
> my initial discovery of Ceramcote allowed me to double my pallete for $20.
>
You could add to this...
http://www.rgmw.org/paint/paint.html
janet
--
I am open to conviction on all points except dinner and debts. I hold that
the one must be eaten and the other paid. Those are my only prejudices.
George Eliot
Karyth Teel
"Brad Hann" <lunta...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c6425075...@news.individual.net...
> > Well, now that GW switched to the "flip-top" lids from the screw on
sort, I
> > can recommend both GW and Reaper, paints as being completely
serviceable.
>
> I've found that the GW paints in the current-style flip-top lids are
> incredibly watery and don't provide decent coverage even with six or
> seven coats. It's not just one or two in a bad batch, it's every single
> pot I've bought since the new lot came out.
Thanks for the head's up. I mainly use Vallejos, with some Reapers and
Deltas thrown in. I still can dig out some old school Ral Parthas, but
those are all in the process of being retired. The only GW paint I still
use is the "Bronzed Flesh" from the old Coat D'Arms days, and that's only
because I got it free from a buddy of min.
> Brad
Karyth Teel
Myrmidon
@case.edu Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
Hell, if you want to get the ball rolling and type up the initial
verison(s) and post it here, I'd be glad to give it a look and offer up
anything helpful that I can. I'm sure others would do the same. I can
at least offer up some technical stuff about acrylic paint
characteristics, as well as my favorite craft paint colors, etc. I'm
quite certain that we could submit it to Mr. Singers and persuade him to
add it to RGMW.
Myrmidon
--
[Paint] [Rant] Do NOT lick your paint brush...
I've been licking my paintbrushes for years, and it hasn't
jklse jhlka hnbjktr jskl jnkl;sg.
- Brad Hann
MJB
> brushes for a new WFB player. I've looked at GW and Reaper online but am
> not sure. Any help would be great
>
Got my opinions on both paints and brushes. And in the painting tips
section of my website I detail 'em.
--
MJB
Mr. Tin's Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
Robert Singers
> Thanks for the head's up. I mainly use Vallejos, with some Reapers and
> Deltas thrown in. I still can dig out some old school Ral Parthas, but
> those are all in the process of being retired.
If you have any Paladin Blue then you can retire it in my direction.
Robert Singers
> Hell, if you want to get the ball rolling and type up the initial
> verison(s) and post it here, I'd be glad to give it a look and offer up
> anything helpful that I can. I'm sure others would do the same. I can
> at least offer up some technical stuff about acrylic paint
> characteristics, as well as my favorite craft paint colors, etc. I'm
> quite certain that we could submit it to Mr. Singers and persuade him to
> add it to RGMW.
What Myr actually send me a submission????????
Myrmidon
rsin...@finger.hotmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
> Out from under a rock popped Myrmidon and said
>
> > Hell, if you want to get the ball rolling and type up the initial
> > verison(s) and post it here, I'd be glad to give it a look and offer up
> > anything helpful that I can. I'm sure others would do the same. I can
> > at least offer up some technical stuff about acrylic paint
> > characteristics, as well as my favorite craft paint colors, etc. I'm
> > quite certain that we could submit it to Mr. Singers and persuade him to
> > add it to RGMW.
>
> What Myr actually send me a submission????????
Don't make me come over there! I'd love to get some stuff done,
but I'm in the midst of a huge terrain making project so as to replace
my 15+ year old hills with new ones that aren't age worn, and to get the
ones I promised to Toaster finished as well. Along with that I've still
got a metric ton of Nid stuff to finish for both my army and Toaster's
as well. After that I want to do the 'how to' shots for the magnetic
dread conversion 'in progress' when I do my 2nd Dread as well as the
magnetic mounts for the IG heavy weapons crews. I think my wife should
let me quit my job so I can spend a year or two finishing up my 40K
stuff. ;)
Myr :)
--
I thought it was the FUCKING Steam tank? Or has the official spelling
changed and I have to change my AB files again?
-- KMarkusV
smithdoerr
> In article <Xns95EC85C426650rsingers@IP-Hidden>, Robert Singers,
> rsin...@finger.hotmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
>
> Don't make me come over there!
It's "Don't make me come DOWN there." Remember, he lives in upside-down
land where all the blood rushes to their heads and makes them say weird
stuff like "wombat" and "crickey!". I don't think that hole in the ozone
layer is helping any either.
--
-smithdoerr
Robert Singers
> It's "Don't make me come DOWN there." Remember, he lives in
> upside-down land where all the blood rushes to their heads and makes
> them say weird stuff like "wombat" and "crickey!". I don't think that
> hole in the ozone layer is helping any either.
That's northern hemisphere bigotry and it's all lies. South is actually
up, and I'm at the very start of the world. Those wombat fellas are
actually a couple of hours behind.
Robert Singers
> Don't make me come over there! I'd love to get some stuff done,
> but I'm in the midst of a huge terrain making project so as to replace
> my 15+ year old hills with new ones that aren't age worn, and to get the
> ones I promised to Toaster finished as well. Along with that I've still
> got a metric ton of Nid stuff to finish for both my army and Toaster's
> as well. After that I want to do the 'how to' shots for the magnetic
> dread conversion 'in progress' when I do my 2nd Dread as well as the
> magnetic mounts for the IG heavy weapons crews. I think my wife should
> let me quit my job so I can spend a year or two finishing up my 40K
> stuff. ;)
What a feeble excuse. All of us see the 200 line posts you make in reply
to the simplest question. If you've got time to do that you've got time to
actually do something important.
smithdoerr
"Robert Singers" <rsin...@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95EC926A0B35Drsingers@IP-Hidden...
> Out from under a rock popped smithdoerr and said
>
>> It's "Don't make me come DOWN there." Remember, he lives in
>> upside-down land where all the blood rushes to their heads and makes
>> them say weird stuff like "wombat" and "crickey!". I don't think that
>> hole in the ozone layer is helping any either.
>
> That's northern hemisphere bigotry and it's all lies. South is actually
> up, and I'm at the very start of the world. Those wombat fellas are
> actually a couple of hours behind.
Nah, if south were up I would have fallen off the planet long ago. Look,
I'm not even holding on or anything! <jumps up and down> See?
--
-smithdoerr
Karyth Teel
> Out from under a rock popped Karyth Teel and said
>
> > It may just be mw, but it does seem that we get this question a lot,
> > and the conventional wisdom seems to be the same. Is there any way we
> > could simply type up a "how to buy paints" article? As an aside, I'd
> > love to put up a "how to start painting Minis for under $50" article
> > that stresses the joys of the Walmart craft aisle. While I'm slowly
> > upgrading to Vallejo paints, my initial discovery of Ceramcote allowed
> > me to double my pallete for $20.
>
> Write it and send it to me.
here it is, in a raw, unformatted, probobly barely coherent form. It's
effectivly two bits: the first is a simple "what paints should I use" essay,
and the second explains what exactly to buy to have a decent paint bench for
$50 US. Feel free to amend, edit, counter, etc. anything in here, it's
meant to be a Group response to a Group question, but I'm sure my personal
leanings showed. Also, I wrote it in a casual first person style, that can
easily be changed to a more formal style that speaks for the group.
****************Start Essay*****************
What paints should I use?
The question is often asked around here, as folks take a look at GW paints
and wonder if there is an alternative. To save time for the regulars around
RGMW, the "conventional wisdom" was codified for future generations to
enjoy.
Short Answer:
Don't buy GW paints, instead buy craft paints (Delta Ceramcoat, Plaid Apple
Barrel) for most paints, and Vallejo paints for Metallic shades. Craft
paints are available in Wal-Mart, Michael's Crafts, and Joann Fabrics for
under a buck a 2oz bottle, and Vallejo's are available in most hobby shops.
Longer Answer:
For a beginning painter, there is a bewildering array of paint ranges to
choose from. Realistically, there's only a handful that the average painter
needs to concern himself with:
Citadel Color Paint (GW Brand):
In a word, mediocre. At $2.50 a 12ml pot, they're average in price, and
they've recently switched to a longer lasting "Flip top" lid that prevents
the nearly instant dry out of the old pots. That said, they color coverage
isn't very good, many report that the paint is watery and thin, and their
color range, while adequate, isn't exactly breathtaking (it lacks a strong
neutral grey and their browns tend to be reddish.) For the most part, the
colors are clumped into groups of three for easy highlighting/shading. Many
painters use the color names as standard keys for describing a paint job.
Pros: Not as bad as they used to be two years ago, convenient, easy to
find,
Cons: Not as good as they were eight years ago, cost high for average
quality.
Delta Ceramcoat/ Plaid Apple Barrel
http://www.deltacrafts.com/Paint/Ceramcoat/
Craft paints widely available at discount stores in the US, Delta paints
provide the highest value for the cost of any paint brand, and their actual
quality is comparable if not equal to Citadel, Reaper, etc. The large, 2oz
(60ml) bottles have both a flip top lid and a screw off cap, making them
easy to use. Larger 4oz and 8oz sizes are available in basic colors. The
color range is almost 300 shades, though they skew far more to pinks and
purples than most gamers are used to. At an average of $1 a pot, they're a
fantastic bargain. Sample kits are available for even cheaper.
There are some problems, however. Their reds are uneven, but the comparable
Apple Barrel Bright Red is excellent. Metallics are generally poor, and
should be avoided. The range of flesh tones is generally too cartoony to be
of much use.
Pros: Low Cost, Huge range of colors, convenient pots, wide availability
Cons: Poor Metallics and bright reds, inadequate flesh tones.
Reaper Pro Paints
Reaper recently released a new line of Master Paints that I have
yet to use, but their Pro Paints are still available and are often
encountered. As a range, Reaper is decent, with strong colors, nice
consistency, and a neat molded skull as a shaking bead. Their color range
is limited, but their price of $2.50 for 3/4oz (22.5 ml) is quite
reasonable. Their metallics are among the finest available for the price.
Pros: Slightly better and cheaper than GW, very nice metallics, cool shaker
bead
Cons: Uneven quality across range, limited availability
Vallejo Model Color / Game Color
A range of roughly 200 colors designed for use by the military
modeling community, though miniature painters have flocked to this brand for
it's top shelf quality, consistency, color range, and bottle design. A
large majority of painters use and adore these paints, and nearly all who
try them prefer them to Citadel Paints. The new Game Color line is an exact
copy of Citadel's color chart, in case you're stuck on a certain GW color.
Prices range around $3 a 17ml pot, which isn't cheap by any means, but
actually cheaper than Citadel paints. Many painters outside of 'Eavy Metal
are switching, meaning that many clinics and tutorials will begin cropping
up refrencing these paints. Further, while the Game Color range is an exact
match, the following link contains a chart that provides euivilencies:
http://home.att.net/~katamaran/vallejo.html
Outside of cost (some retailers charge far more than online
vendors) and availability, there is very little downside to the Vallejo
range. Any painter serious about the hobby and willing to pay the price
should seriously consider these paints:
Pros: Highest Quality, Convenient Bottles, huge range, excellent metallics
Cons: Limited (but growing) availability, often high cost
How to Start Painting for under $50 bucks:
Every Painter, bare minimum, needs a brush, some water, a mixing surface,
and five paints: White, Black, Red, Blue, and Yellow. In practice, you need
far more colors, and most likely several brushes. If you're new to "The
Hobby" and are looking for a cheap way in, here's some hints, tips, and even
a shopping list.
Brushes:
First off, you need some brushes. While verteran painters have dozens (I
know I do), most find themselves using the same brushes over and over. The
roles most called for are: Terrain brush, Vehicle/Base Brush, Workhorse,
Detail, Eyeballer, and Dry brush. The teraain brush is for painting terrain
and isn't even a craft brush. Get this one a Home Depot. The Vehicle Base
brush is your large, indiscriminate brush for when you need to put a lot of
paint on something. Typically a Size 1-3, buy the brush size that you like
best.
Workhorse: this is the brush that you could paint nearly an entire model
with. Never, ever skimp on this brush, as it's going to be in your hand a
lot of the time. Sizes vary from a slim 0 to a fat 3/0, and for this brush
I highly recommend springing for Fox Hair or Golden Nylon. Simply ask the
hobby store for a good brush in the size range you're interested in.
Detail/Eyballer: These are small, typically 3/0 or 5/0 for details and a
10/0 or smaller for eyeballs. Use them sparingly and they'll last. I
sometimes prefer to use cheap nylon brushes in these sizes and replace them
often, though a high quality 5/0 brush can be cared for well into a couple
of years life.
Dry Brush: any old brush, but for now, buy a pack of cheap brushes. Dry
Brushing ruins bristles, so use an old or cheap brush for this task.
While hobby stores carry fine selections of paint brushes, you can get cheap
nylon brushes at discount craft stores, often in a bundle for much less.
To start, I'd buy the following:
Floquil (or equivalent) Size 1 and Size 10/0 [~$10 for both]
Plaid Essentials Brush Set (size 2, 4, 6, 3/0) [~$5]
Paints:
If you're on a budget, or are simply open to a bargain, then Acrylic Craft
paints are the solution to your paint needs. Instead of paying $3 for a
half ounce or less of hobby paint, you can get a 2oz bottle for under a
buck. You can find these paints in Wal-Mart, JoAnn's fabric, Michaels, and
many other discount craft stores. You'll find a wall of paints from which
to choose in a variety of brands and colors. I prefer the Delta Ceramcoat
for all but Bright Red, for which I use the Apple Barrel color. Obviously
the colors you need are dependent on your project, but here's a great
starting Palette:
White
Black
Light Grey
Dark Grey
Bright Green
Forest Green
Camo Green/Olive drab
Yellow
Orange
Bright Red (consider Apple Barrel over Delta)
Dark Red
Purple
Royal Blue
Navy Blue
Tan/Khaki
Leather Brown
Dark Brown
..And any colors that strike your fancy
As for the rest of the colors, go back to the hobby store, and buy Vallejo
paints for your metallics. I've never had great luck with Delta's
metallics, and Vallejo has a great range. Pick up the following:
Steel
Gunmetal
Brass
Copper
Silver
~20 Delta Ceramcoat Paints [~$20]
5 Vallejo Paints [~$15]
And there you have it, a reasonably well stocked paint bench for $50, and
only two stops. Of course, you'll want to expand as time goes on, but that
can be done a couple of colors at a time for a few bucks a week. Enjoy your
painting, and welcome to the hobby!
***********************End Essay*************************
Karyth Teel
Karyth Teel
> Out from under a rock popped Karyth Teel and said
>
> > Thanks for the head's up. I mainly use Vallejos, with some Reapers and
> > Deltas thrown in. I still can dig out some old school Ral Parthas, but
> > those are all in the process of being retired.
>
> If you have any Paladin Blue then you can retire it in my direction.
>
> --
> Rob Singers
Haha, not a chance. I still haven't found a better dark blue, so my 2/3 of
a pot is jealously guarded. Have you tried the new Iron Wind Metals stuff?
Anyway, if I can find a suitable replacement it's yours.
Karyth Teel
Myrmidon
@case.edu Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
>
> "Robert Singers" <rsin...@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95EC7D8B96AC4rsingers@IP-Hidden...
> > Out from under a rock popped Karyth Teel and said
> >
> > > It may just be mw, but it does seem that we get this question a lot,
> > > and the conventional wisdom seems to be the same. Is there any way we
> > > could simply type up a "how to buy paints" article? As an aside, I'd
> > > love to put up a "how to start painting Minis for under $50" article
> > > that stresses the joys of the Walmart craft aisle. While I'm slowly
> > > upgrading to Vallejo paints, my initial discovery of Ceramcote allowed
> > > me to double my pallete for $20.
> >
> > Write it and send it to me.
>
> here it is, in a raw, unformatted, probobly barely coherent form. It's
> effectivly two bits: the first is a simple "what paints should I use" essay,
> and the second explains what exactly to buy to have a decent paint bench for
> $50 US. Feel free to amend, edit, counter, etc. anything in here, it's
> meant to be a Group response to a Group question, but I'm sure my personal
> leanings showed. Also, I wrote it in a casual first person style, that can
> easily be changed to a more formal style that speaks for the group.
<massive Ker-snip!>
You see! You see! Look Singers! Someone who's name isn't
Myrmidon or Bowles wrote a post with more than 200 lines - and in record
time. ;) Is it my fault if the rest of the news group is composed
largely of illiterate banana slugs and/or hairless tree sloths?
Besides, I have to be quick to survive in the zoo I live in - nearly
lost a finger to the Bobcat in our barn during feeding time with the
critters. (The duffus horse being stubborn about going in his stall
didn't help either - Bobby kept getting out. Hard to grab a cat that
doesn't want to be grabbed and hold onto a large horse at the same
time.)
This is an excellent start Karyth. I think you've done a decent job and
I don't see anything wrong with the tone of the writing. There are
definitely some pointers I can add. I think a short bit about warm and
cool hues of color would be worth while as most beginners will want to
start with 3 warm colors, I.e. warm red, blue, and yellow as their
beginning pallet so that any color mixing won't turn muddy or neutral
mess (which is frustrating as heck if you're an unsuspecting beginner).
I'd also add a short note about the fact that adding 'black' to a color
pushes it towards a neutral or muddy value rather than creating a darker
hue, and that white pushes a color towards pastel. Next up is the
section on brushes - you do a nice job describing their use, but I would
suggest adding information about how 'art supply' stores describe
various types of brushes as well to avoid confusion if the new painter
decides to invest in something other than the GW/Craft store variety of
paint brushes. (Like I said, quality brushes will definitely deliver
better painting results and last for years if properly cared for.) I'll
take a shot at writing up some additional material for this over the
weekend. I'm about to go and put gesso on the last batch of hills so I
can start painting them - woot!
Later (and thanks!)
Myrmidon
--
I'll have you know that I am equivalent to *at least twice* my
bodyweight in Snotlings.
-- Brad Hann
Myrmidon
>
> > Don't make me come over there! I'd love to get some stuff done,
> > but I'm in the midst of a huge terrain making project so as to replace
> > my 15+ year old hills with new ones that aren't age worn, and to get the
> > ones I promised to Toaster finished as well. Along with that I've still
> > got a metric ton of Nid stuff to finish for both my army and Toaster's
> > as well. After that I want to do the 'how to' shots for the magnetic
> > dread conversion 'in progress' when I do my 2nd Dread as well as the
> > magnetic mounts for the IG heavy weapons crews. I think my wife should
> > let me quit my job so I can spend a year or two finishing up my 40K
> > stuff. ;)
>
> What a feeble excuse. All of us see the 200 line posts you make in reply
> to the simplest question. If you've got time to do that you've got time to
> actually do something important.
Good point! Time to go finish off the gesso stage on the last of
my hills and revetments. Then the painting! I'll have to repaint my
old gaming table too, looking at the pictures of the last game I just
played (lost to those gay space elves too!) it looks rather ratty in
places and needs a new paint job. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised,
the surface is nearly as old as my kids.
Myrmidon
I have gaming suppliments older than Craig Little and his kids!
--
Here's a thought that might help: it's alright to take units
because you like them, even though they aren't the most
effecient for their designated role. No one is going to take
away your powergamer license if you field a less effecient
counter assault unit in your IG army.
- Qrab
John Hwang
If you're going cheap, buy a GW starter paint set ($20?).
Otherwise, buy a starter set of Vallejo ($50?).
Either way, buy some decent all-sable (non-synthetic) brushes from Vallejo or
your local art supply store, sizes 0 and 3/0.
--
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
John Hwang
>> Well, now that GW switched to the "flip-top" lids from the
>>screw on sort, I can recommend both GW and Reaper,
*Why?* For the same price, I'd much rather get Coat D'Arms. For a bit more,
I'd get Vallejo.
>I've found that the GW paints in the current-style flip-top
> lids are incredibly watery and don't provide decent
>coverage even with six or seven coats.
So now we've figured out how GW is able to afford the changeover to new lids...
>It's not just one or two in a bad batch, it's every single
>pot I've bought since the new lot came out.
You're aware of the defintion of "insanity", right?
John Hwang
>I'd love to put up a "how to start painting Minis for under
>$50" article that stresses the joys of the Walmart craft aisle.
Mmkay... Tho you should throw in a caveat that craft paint isn't the same as
hobby paint. The pigment isn't ground as finely, so people shouldn't expect
the same smoothness in the final product.
> While I'm slowly upgrading to Vallejo paints,
> my initial discovery of Ceramcote allowed me to double my
> pallete for $20.
The sad thing is that you could have gotten another 7 or 8 droppers of Vallejo
for that $20. It's not a good use of limited money to re-buy your paint. Why
not just buy the right paint at the start? Particularly as Vallejo is designed
to be mixable.
John Hwang
This is an OK start, but AFAIC, there's a lot of pennywise advice that I would
change.
>****************Start Essay*****************
>
>What paints should I use?
>Citadel Color Paint (GW Brand):
>Pros: Not as bad as they used to be two years ago,
>Cons: Not as good as they were eight years ago,
Overall Value: POOR.
>Delta Ceramcoat/ Plaid Apple Barrel
>Pros: Low Cost,
Cons: You get what you pay for.
Overall Value: FAIR.
>Reaper Pro Paints
>Pros: Slightly better and cheaper than GW,
>Cons: Uneven quality across range, limited availability
Overall Value: MARGINAL.
None of the above are seriously recommended for the paint itself, merely: GW
is convenient, Craft is cheap, and Reaper isn't utter crap.
>Vallejo Model Color / Game Color
>top shelf quality, consistency, color range, and bottle design.
+ Highly mixable and blendable
>Pros: Highest Quality, Convenient Bottles, huge range
>Cons: Somewhat higher cost
Overall Value: VERY GOOD
Note that the higher cost is a bit of a red herring.
1. The cost is only 20% higher per bottle, so you only give up 1/6 colors.
There is relatively little difference in having 15/18 or 20/24 colors to work
with.
2. Not having paints dry out easily covers for having to rebuy for evaporation
and consistency shifts over the paint's lifetime.
3. This is an Internet FAQ, so we can reasonably presume everybody can (and
will) buy from Warstore or eBay or some other discount source to bring the
final price in line.
>How to Start Painting for under $50 bucks:
>
>Every Painter, bare minimum, needs a brush, some water, a mixing
> surface,
FWIW, I only rarely use a palette.
>and five paints: White, Black, Red, Blue, and Yellow. In practice, you need
*want*
>far more colors, and most likely several brushes.
>Brushes:
>
>First off, you need some brushes.
Buy the highest quality pure sable brushes you can afford. Windsor & Newton
and Vallejo are good choices.
Avoid throwaways (e.g. nylon or "taklon") like the plague. You can buy
cocktail stirrers for pennies, so don't waste your money on $5+ stirrers.
>While verteran painters have dozens (I know I do), most find themselves
>using the same brushes over and over.
Because they are the *good* brushes and the rest are crap.
For vehicles / terrain, get a 2 or 4.
For general purpose, get a 1 or 0.
For details, get a 3/0 or 5/0.
>Detail/Eyballer: These are small, typically 3/0 or 5/0 for details and a
>10/0 or smaller for eyeballs. Use them sparingly and they'll last.
Nope. Take care of them, and they'll last. Always "pull" your paint, never
"push" and they'll last a surprisingly long time.
I'd guess that, over the past several years, I've painted some 500-600 28mm
minis with the same pure sable brushes. They're all still quite serviceable
because I took care of them.
The various nylon and other cheap brushes generally get thrown away within
weeks, if not *days* of use.
>I sometimes prefer to use cheap nylon brushes in these sizes and replace
>them often,
If you're painting on the cheap, you can't afford to throw brushes away
willy-nilly.
>though a high quality 5/0 brush can be cared for well into a couple
>of years life.
I can get several years use out of a brush, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm
sure the vast majority of true professional painters buy top quality brushes
and take excellent care of them, so that they last for years and years.
>Dry Brushing ruins bristles, so use an old or cheap brush for this task.
No, it doesn't. I drybrush *extensively*, and my brushes are none the worse
for the wear. Because I "pull" the paint from the brushes.
OTOH, if you grind the brushes down, of *course* they'll be ruined. Which
makes me wonder what kind of idiot would knowingly and deliberately do that to
their brushes?
>To start, I'd buy the following:
I'd raise the investment to $65 and put it all into brushes
$20 in Brushes:
Vallejo Painters set (#2,1,0)
$40 in Paint:
Vallejo Basic set (16 colors).
[ Reflective Green, Azure Blue, Ochre, Black, White, Yellow, Flesh, Orange,
Red, Purple , Blue, Green, Buff, Brown, Gold, Silver ]
More colors and brushes can wait until later. In the mean time, you can mix
paints or overwash to lighten or darken as necessary.
>Acrylic Craft paints are
Absolutely *great* for terrain and bases. $5 in brown craft paint, sand, and
green flock will take care of you for a long time.
>***********************End Essay*************************
Robert Singers
>> If you have any Paladin Blue then you can retire it in my direction.
>
> Haha, not a chance. I still haven't found a better dark blue, so my
> 2/3 of a pot is jealously guarded. Have you tried the new Iron Wind
> Metals stuff? Anyway, if I can find a suitable replacement it's yours.
I know it's a seriously freaking good colour. I've got about a 1/4 pot
left. IWM say there paints are the same formula and I might be tempted to
take the hit on ths shipping when I have even less. I actually use the
Steel colour a lot too.
Myrmidon
Hwang, johnhw...@cs.com.no.com Varfed out the following in Timo
speak...
> "trakad" tra...@cox.net wrote:
> >I was wondering if anybody could suggest a good starter
> >set of paints and brushes for a new WFB player. I've
> >looked at GW and Reaper online but am not sure. Any help
> >would be great
>
> If you're going cheap, buy a GW starter paint set ($20?).
No... He said the point was to buy a starter set cheaply - not to
buy a cheap starter set. GW paints still are NOT a great value for the
money, even with the better bottles. Some of their colors like the
bright purples and greens are good, but their yellows and reds aren't
the greatest by any means, and those are 2/3 rds of their primary color
range.
>
> Otherwise, buy a starter set of Vallejo ($50?).
>
> Either way, buy some decent all-sable (non-synthetic) brushes from Vallejo or
> your local art supply store, sizes 0 and 3/0.
>
Agreed - presently Sable brushes are still the best out there, though
there are some seriously nice synthetics available as well these days.
Myr
--
#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.
- Eric Noland
# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army
- Roy Cox
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/gwprice/
****
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
John Hwang
> "trakad" <tra...@cox.net> wrote ...
>
>>I was wondering if anybody could suggest a good starter set of paints and
>>brushes for a new WFB player. I've looked at GW and Reaper online but am
>>not sure. Any help would be great
>
> Got my opinions on both paints and brushes. And in the painting tips
> section of my website I detail 'em.
If I'm motivated, I'll update my Painting Notes:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.miniatures.warhammer/msg/b05db5fb7d8ee72b
Nearly 2 years since the last update, but still a decent article.
--
--- John Hwang "JohnHwang...@cs.com.no.com"
manickZe
Robert Singers
> <massive Ker-snip!>
>
> You see! You see! Look Singers!
Sorry I have a short attention span for anything that doesn't have breasts,
you lost me at the second see.
--
Rob Singers
RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Foemina Erit Ruina Tua
Robert Singers
> here it is, in a raw, unformatted, probobly barely coherent form.
> It's effectivly two bits: the first is a simple "what paints should I
> use" essay, and the second explains what exactly to buy to have a
> decent paint bench for $50 US. Feel free to amend, edit, counter,
> etc. anything in here, it's meant to be a Group response to a Group
> question, but I'm sure my personal leanings showed. Also, I wrote it
> in a casual first person style, that can easily be changed to a more
> formal style that speaks for the group.
I've dropped it into the paints directory on my dev site. I'll merge it
with the exisiting page. Probably early next week when I've kicked the
flu'