[40k] Codex: CSM Rumor Control
Playa
Hey,
I found this stuff while looking for Codex: Apocalypse rumors
(different post).
Of possible interest is 'Wraithlord's' chat w/ Gav at a con:
(Chaos) Codex will be 105-110 pages in size. This is due to rules
layout and background along with an extended version of alternate
colour schemes for CSM's that the GW crew have come up with.
Gav pointed out that the focus/feel of the codex will be more along
the lines of Renegade SM's than just the 9 Legions previously.
Fluffwise, the dev team feels that renegades would be in the majority
as it is too much of a stretch to imagine that all CSM's are literally
10,000 year war vets. Some will be, most will not.
The codex will be similar to the SM codex in that the undivided lists
will be represented in full (similar to codex astartes chapters) with
the cults represented in a manner similar to the craftworlds in the
new Eldar codex, ie, if you want World Eaters, give everything the
MoK.
GW is seriously considering making the 4 god specific cults into stand
alone books along the lines of BA, DA, BT, and SW's. This WILL NOT
happen any time soon nor is it actually in the works just yet,
however, if GW decides to go with this for them there will be no
conflicts with the upcoming codex, as the book is being designed with
this very possibility in mind.
Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the
guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect
what they originally envisioned it as (not a Chaos Basilisk
basically). The Defiler will have a quick movement mode and quite
possibly both an improvement in
armour along with a points reduction to make it more palatable to
gamers. Gav -really- didn't want to say too much on this topic though
so I got no more out of him on it.
"Thousand Sons players are going to be very happy". Direct quote from
the man here. No real specifics as to the meaning of this but more to
come on that in a minute.
One thing Gav talked about was the fact that the dev team deliberately
sat down and figured out what exactly each of the Cults was supposed
to be known for and how to achieve this rules wise. According to him,
World Eaters are possibly going to get even better in CC, Emperors
Children will be shooty from hell, Death Guard are getting -
significantly- tougher to kill (Gav's emphasis, not mine), and
Thousand Sons are going to be somewhere between EC and DG with a
massive focus on psychic powers.
Thousand Sons will still be crap in CC, however this will be countered
by very unique abilities for psychic powers and shooting. Gav
mentioned that TSons will have god blessed bolter rounds and powerful
spells, amoung other things, to offset this. Once again telling me
that Tson players are going to jump for joy.
Oblits are moving to HS in order to prevent the IW cheese lists as
well as to take Oblits out of competition with Terminators.
We are definitely losing the Chaos Armoury. All units will have a
listing of the available armoury stuff they are allowed but the days
of one single, all encompassing, armoury are long gone. Get used to
this idea as Gav said that was pretty much laid in stone now and is
the way of the future for all codices to come.
The codex is due out "this fall" (quoting Gav here) as is Apocalypse.
I asked about when the Orks are being released as well but all I got
out of him on that subject was "early next year".
+++
I remember that Codex CSM v3a was so awful it merited a class-action
lawsuit.
v3b was a little better, but certainly no sterling example of
professional writing.
Versions 3c and 3d were published secretly, apparently to further
confuse players.
So GW's got a bad track record re: CSM, making rumors the more
portentious.
Like these:
+++
* No more Ancient Enemies animosity restrictions
* No more 'Books of Chaos' for Cult lists
* Daemons standardized with a single stat line and use no FOC slots
* No more Armoury or Daemonic Gifts
* Daemon Weapons to become a single item w/ +d6S and +1S (don't roll a
1)
* No more restrictions with regard to Marks
* Huron Blackheart model to be added to line
* Abbadon's Drachnyen will no longer instakill
* Dreads to become Elite Units
* Obliterators will become HS Units and may be Marked
* Infiltration Skill to be for Vets only
* Marines count as having a Boltgun, Boltpistol, CCW *and* Frags
* Raptor Units will be unrestricted in number and may be Marked
* Defilers lose IF option, but may Fleet
* New Vindi model to be available in all CSM lists
* Basilisk removed from CSM Codex
* Havocs may no longer bear Cult weapons
* Cultists will be unavailable
* Heavy Weapons available only in full squads of 10
* Sacred Number benefits to be removed
* Possessed CSM abilities rolled-for on random table
* Spawn to be a new FA Unit
* Termi Units to be min 3 models
* No more Chosen Units
* No more Vet Skills
+++
Some of these rumors are horrifying, and not in a good way . . .
Playa
Doctor Rock
"Playa" <hurlg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1180138018.1...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the
> guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect
> what they originally envisioned it as (not a Chaos Basilisk
> basically). The Defiler will have a quick movement mode and quite
> possibly both an improvement in
> armour along with a points reduction to make it more palatable to
> gamers.
a half-decent model would go a lot further towards making it "palatable" to
THIS gamer, but still. is it actually gonna lose the battlecannon, I
wonder? someone implied not long ago that Vindicators might end up in the
basic list for all CSM armies, rather than just Iron Warriors, in which case
I could see a Defiler with no artillery and enhanced assault ability being
viable.
> One thing Gav talked about was the fact that the dev team deliberately
> sat down and figured out what exactly each of the Cults was supposed
> to be known for and how to achieve this rules wise.
that's neat and all, but the only ones that actually NEED fixing are the
Thousand Sons.
> We are definitely losing the Chaos Armoury. All units will have a
> listing of the available armoury stuff they are allowed but the days
> of one single, all encompassing, armoury are long gone.
meh. another good idea which will come a little late to folks who've
already converted their squad leaders and veterans.
Desert Lurker
>
> Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the
> guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect
> what they originally envisioned it as (not a Chaos Basilisk
> basically). The Defiler will have a quick movement mode and quite
> possibly both an improvement in
> armour along with a points reduction to make it more palatable to
> gamers. Gav -really- didn't want to say too much on this topic though
> so I got no more out of him on it.
So the Defiler is going to be justr like it is in Dawn of War. I would not
be suprised for the Chaos list to look a lot like Dawn of War.
After all the Eldar book "felt" closer to DoW than the previous list.
Joe -2cents- Boster
Ward B.
> "Playa" wrote in message a half-decent model would go a lot further
> gonna lose the battlecannon, I wonder? someone implied not long ago that
> Vindicators might end up in the basic list for all CSM armies, rather than
> just Iron Warriors, in which case I could see a Defiler with no artillery
> and enhanced assault ability being viable.
*sigh*
>> One thing Gav talked about was the fact that the dev team deliberately
>> sat down and figured out what exactly each of the Cults was supposed
>> to be known for and how to achieve this rules wise.
>
> that's neat and all, but the only ones that actually NEED fixing are the
> Thousand Sons.
Even the current incarnation of the Thousand Sons isn't bad. There are all
Tzeentch builds that work quite effectively, if you're willing to play them.
I have this horrible suspicion they'll overcompensate and the TS list is
gonna end up as the new cheese-mongers wet dream.
>> We are definitely losing the Chaos Armoury. All units will have a
>> listing of the available armoury stuff they are allowed but the days
>> of one single, all encompassing, armoury are long gone.
>
> meh. another good idea which will come a little late to folks who've
> already converted their squad leaders and veterans.
Yeah, GW has obviously decided to take the nerf stick to all wargear lists.
The recent Codexes, especially Eldar and DA, have made it very clear that
they are drastically cutting back the available options. This makes things
easier for newbies, in two ways: First, there are fewer options so it makes
it easier to build an army list. Second, it cuts back on the number of
cheesy combinations. It also gives GW more control, in that they're
restricting army lists to fluffily appropriate combinations. However, I'm
not convinced any of these changes improve the game for experienced
players...
--
- Ward
wardcb at earthlink dot net
"Love is blind, but marriage sure is an eye-opener!"
- S. Tsuruda
Phil Bowles
> "Playa" <hurlgen...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1180138018.1...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the
> > guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect
> > what they originally envisioned it as (not a Chaos Basilisk
> > basically). The Defiler will have a quick movement mode and quite
> > possibly both an improvement in
> > armour along with a points reduction to make it more palatable to
> > gamers.
>
> a half-decent model would go a lot further towards making it "palatable" to
> THIS gamer, but still. is it actually gonna lose the battlecannon, I
> wonder? someone implied not long ago that Vindicators might end up in the
> basic list for all CSM armies, rather than just Iron Warriors, in which case
> I could see a Defiler with no artillery and enhanced assault ability being
> viable.
I can't see them redoing the model, so it will still have a big gun,
but I could see them not making it a battlecannon - after all, who
would want an AV12 Leman Russ?
I think it shows just how little connection GW has with the people who
actually play the game, and an indication of how extensively they
playtest, that they gave the think a battlecannon and indirect fire in
the first place and claim to be surprised that players used it as an
artillery piece.
Phil
Phil Bowles
wrote:
> "Playa" <hurlgen...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1180138018.1...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hey,
>
> > Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the
> > guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect
> > what they originally envisioned it as
*sigh* I said GW's justification for changing this would be "The model
looks fighty". And I thought I was being sarcastic...
Phil
Phil Bowles
>
> news:1180138018.1...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hey,
>
> > Defiler is going to be a fast moving CC monster now. Gav said that the
> > guys on the dev team feel that the Defiler rules simply do not reflect
> > what they originally envisioned it as
*sigh* I said GW's justification for changing this would be "The model
Playa
Hey,
An amendment and an update from the interweb thingy:
> +++
> * Daemon Weapons to become a single item w/ +d6S and +1S
This should have read "+d6A and +1S". My bad.
> +++
Excerpts from a followup posted elsewhere by 'Wraithlord':
The changes to deamons are HUGE, especially greater daemons.
GDs are dirt cheap, I mean REAL cheap.
The generic profile for Daemons is better then the last edition.
Summoning lesser daemons works more like Deep Striking where any icon
is the homer.
Daemons can assault after summoning, but not move.
CSMs with icons get no Morale benefit, unless it's an icon called
'Chaos Glory'.
When a GD becomes available from reserve, you simply replace any
Aspiring Champion, Lord, etc.
If you have no models available, the GD is lost (no more possessing a
dead host.)
Icons also act as non-scattering homers for terminators and
obliterators.
Models with Wings will always have a chance to scatter if they
Deepstrike.
Terminators can take an Icon of Tzeentch which will grant them a 4+
Inv save.
You can give Chosen the Icon of Khorne which will give all of them +1
attack.
Chosen cannot exchange their veteran skill. It's Infiltrate only.
Havocs are CSMs that can take 4 special/heavies.
Thus Havoks of Khorne = 4 special weapons and 3 attacks each.
Noise Marines can take a heavy weapon with only a 6-strong squad.
Only the Champ can get a DSiren.
1 Blastmaster per NM squad.
Obliterators have S4/T4 for the same points, and no projectile
weaponry.
Abbaddon is very expensive, has the equivalent of every mark, and is
immune to ID.
No retinues of any kind are listed.
There are no longer a 0-1 limit on Raptor Units.
Parasitic drops vehicle BS to 3, no longer makes a vehicle non-
transport, and is cheaper.
Defiler comes with fleet, is no longer a monstrous creature, and has
Dread CCWs.
Spawn don't take up any FOC slots, are deployed like Fast Attack, are
more expensive and lose their save.
They have S&P, so roll 1d6 in the movement phase, but as beasts, roll
1d6 for movement in the shooting phase.
Note that 'Wraithlord' claims to have been given a prepress copy of
the dex, not word-of-mouth info.
Playa
manickZe
> Spawn don't take up any FOC slots, are deployed like Fast Attack, are
> more expensive and lose their save.
>
I heard they are going to be 40 points and more crapper...yay...ggf
nerfstick.
OTOH if dreadnaughts are going to be Elites I get to take Dreads in my
LATD army...way cool
CheezHankrn
Playa wrote:
> Hey,
>
>
> An amendment and an update from the interweb thingy:
>
> Daemons can assault after summoning, but not move.
Aw. that really screws up the deathchicken.
I wonder what my CSM army will be like when this gets released.
I might even be in a 40k mood again by then.
Playa
Hey,
CheezHankrn wrote:
> I wonder what my CSM army will be like when this gets released.
I wonder about mine too, since there's a prevailing sentiment that -
To punish the Tourney IW players, all Undivided Legions were
neutered.
(Standard GW overkill to 'rebalance' cheese-that-doesn't-exist?)
AL? Hosed (again) - never mind nerfed Cultists. This time, none at
all!
IW? Buh-bye, now. You've been naughty, so here's your comeuppance -
No more favouritism for you! Thanks for all the Basilisk money,
though!
Night Lords are conspicuously absent in any of the "quotes" posted.
WB? What are they without a Chaplain? Black Legionnaires like the
rest?
Ugh. If you're a Cult player, rejoice. Apparently, TS are the new IW.
And Cult Champs are all getting a new model with Khorne arriving
first.
Like everyone else, I'll wait and see. But it doesn't look good for
MoCU lists.
Playa
CheezHankrn
Playa wrote:
> Hey,
>
> CheezHankrn wrote:
> > I wonder what my CSM army will be like when this gets released.
>
> I wonder about mine too, since there's a prevailing sentiment that -
>
> To punish the Tourney IW players, all Undivided Legions were
> neutered.
>
>
>
> No more favouritism for you! Thanks for all the Basilisk money,
> though!
Well I hope I still get to build my scratch build treat as basilish
daemon engine for my LatD army.
>
> Night Lords are conspicuously absent in any of the "quotes" posted.
no 0-1 raptors. So easily play without being 'special.'
> WB? What are they without a Chaplain? Black Legionnaires like the
> rest?
Cuorious on that one too.
> Ugh. If you're a Cult player, rejoice. Apparently, TS are the new IW.
I may actually play TS for once. But more likely it looks like I'll be
adding more Tzeentch to my MoCU army.
>
> And Cult Champs are all getting a new model with Khorne arriving
> first.
I may get some new models, maybe the new possessed but my CSM army is
pretty finished.
> Like everyone else, I'll wait and see. But it doesn't look good for
> MoCU lists.
>
Well I play MoCU for all 3 of my lists.
So lets make wild guesses.
I've read the point is to make post heresy regenades easier. Which is
a large part of my warband.
Negasonic MoCU
HQ:
Slanneshi winged DaemonPrince. Well see what happens to him. Good
thing the model isn't finished.
Think'll be ok.
Tzeentch Sorc on Disk with winds of chaos
hope the spells are good.
Red squad 2xPG w infil. MoCU, champ
will have to become elite chosen.
Blue Chosen MoCU, Sorc, 3meltas. champ with PF+PP.
infil or rhino. same? may merge with Red if can only have one infil
squad.
Might turn into a 1ksons squad. uses old mutant 1ksons models.
2x 6man LC moCU.
same?
raptors with 2LC champ.
same. ?
2x Oblits
nerfed. but probably still use. mobile LC and tlPGs are good.
termies.
doubt I'll bring into major rotation still.
furies.
probably drop. main advantage was wings to be able to HtH upon
summoning.
daemonettes or horrors or bloodletters.
might be new summoned unit
Dread
same?
Looks like some changes. if possessed drops BS might make more HtH.
khorne blessing?
So my core CSM army is looking pretty similar.
maybe helped by drop inadversaries rule. minor changes needed.
My 2nd army is LatD so can't say about that yet.
My 3rd tho is in for major changes.
Hellapallosa. Ex-demon bomb army.
Lord with stature, speed/treads
gone?
3x infil MoCU.
doubt I can do this now. ex-demon targets.
furies, bloodletters, daemonettes.
Can't be summoned on the infils. can't move so less likely to attack
1st turn.
Indirect defiler.
Well thats gone.
Dread.
same?
Not a lot left there.