[Paint] Painting fire / flames?
Alan Wilkinson
I'm about to start work on a Balrog and I remember there was recently quite
a discussion in the group on this topic of fire / light sources. The
particular reference I remember had comparison shots of the "correct" way
and GW's painting guides.
I've done a google search but came up fairly blank.
Any help would be appreciated.
Alan
Robert Singers
Myr posted a good guide here about a month ago. Use google to
search this group.
Myrmidon
rsin...@naespam.hotmail.com, Robert Singers shouted out the following
words of wit...
And here it is again - by unpopular demand :)
Re: [PAINT] [40K] Flames
In article <xB4u8.20965$C21.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
hindu...@yahoo.KEINESPAM.com, Craig Little shouted out the following
words of wit...
>
> What's the best way of painting trails of flame on vehicles? Specifically on
> the side of a Razorback Turret? On my marines I've been blending red ink
> into still-wet Fiery Orange paint, but I don't think this would work over
> larger areas.
> --
If you're going to do blending with acrylics over larger areas -
you'll want a retarding agent to slow the drying process. I use
Liquitex "slow-dri Gel Retarder", but a;.m (arrrgh! The black lab is
attacking!) but as I was saying there are a number of similiar products
available - try an artist's supply store or a good craft store. I'd
suggest putting your orange paint on what ever you use for a paint
pallet, and mix in some of the retarder. Paint the orange as normal.
Get out your red acrylic, and mix in some retarder to it as well. Blend
the two together on the pallet or on the model as per your regular
painting style. It will take longer for the paint to dry leaving you a
larger window of opportunity to blend and shade.
Hope that helps...
Myrmidon
In article <ks5u8.21158$C21.4...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
hindu...@yahoo.KEINESPAM.com, Craig Little shouted out the following
words of wit...
>
> "Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1722ac944...@news-server.woh.rr.com...
>
> <snip>
>
> > larger window of opportunity to blend and shade.
> >
> > Hope that helps...
> >
> > Myrmidon
> >
> Thanks. It does, though I was really looking for alternatives to blending,
> as I don't think my primitive technique would work on larger details
Ahhh, in that case I might suggest the following. If you're doing
large areas of flame on a vehicle, first underpaint the flame design on
your vehicle in white paint and let it dry completely. (If for some
reason your white paint doesn't adequately cover the area, apply
additional coats of white as needed until you get the desired coverage.)
Once you have your white under-painting done, cover the whole of the
flame shape with your yellow. (Yellow is often very transparent, thus
the white underpainting helps to reflect more light back up through the
yellow making it look brighter.) Let the yellow dry completely. Now
you do your blending - break out the gel retarding agent if you need it,
but take some of your yellow paint and add a tiny bit of your orange to
it (retarder really is a help with blending and gives you more time -
especially if you're painting something larger like flames on a
vehicle). Paint the highest areas of the inner flame with your yellow
orange mix. Keep adding in more orange to your mix (and eventually red
if desired) as you work your way down to the base of the flames. By
adding and blending the orange to your yellow and slowly blending it
together on your model, hopefully you'll end up with a smooth gradiation
from yellow tops and edges to deep red centers on your flames.
I'm in the process of slowly working on 3 tac squads and 1 assault squad
of 'Legion Of The Damned' as well as an LOTD speeder and eventually a
Rhino. It's a slow process of doing all the highlights and all those
flames on black armor - what was I thinking?
Hope that helps you a bit better now that I have an idea of what you're
painting flames one... First my Rhino, and next my car...
Myr
Hope that helps you too, Alan. :)
--
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"To paint your miniatures, to see them driven before you on the table,
and to hear the lamentation of the cheese-mongers!"
- Del Webb
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
Robert Singers
> And here it is again - by unpopular demand :)
Damn you're vain. If you want to clean those up I'll post them.
SWNMG is getting sick of the sight of me so more computer time.
smithdoerr
"Alan Wilkinson" <Alanrwi...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ac0740$fgk$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
Here's a couple links I posted before:
http://www.newwavegames.com/minis/rackham/confrontation/elementals/color/elf
e01.jpg
This is the way GW usually paints flame; dark at the center and light on the
edges. To me this makes the flame look like a solid object with a light
source shining onto it (well duh, it's made of solid metal).
http://www.newwavegames.com/minis/rackham/confrontation/gallery/elementals/l
gimages/dirkstiller2.jpg
This one has flame painted the "correct" way. Lightest/hottest at the
bottom and darkest/coolest on the edges. It looks like the light source is
the flame itself rather than an outside source.
http://images.google.com/images?q=fire&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Sea
rch
Here's some pictures of real flame. As you can see real fire is lightest
near the center, darkest on the edges.
--
-smithdoerr
smithdoerr
> hopefully you'll end up with a smooth gradiation
> from yellow tops and edges to deep red centers on your flames.
Good tips, but you might want to add that for stylized flames (flames
painted on vehicles, banners etc. as opposed to "real" flames when painting
a torch) contrast with your background is most important when decided
whether to go from red center/bottom to yellow edges/top or the other way
around. For black LOTD red center to yellow edges looks best but if you had
a light background then yellow center to red edges looks best.
--
-smithdoerr
Mark Story
<snip>
>>
> If you're going to do blending with acrylics over larger areas -
> you'll want a retarding agent to slow the drying process. I use
> Liquitex "slow-dri Gel Retarder", but a;.m (arrrgh! The black lab is
> attacking!) but as I was saying there are a number of similiar products
> available - try an artist's supply store or a good craft store. I'd
> suggest putting your orange paint on what ever you use for a paint
> pallet, and mix in some of the retarder. Paint the orange as normal.
> Get out your red acrylic, and mix in some retarder to it as well. Blend
> the two together on the pallet or on the model as per your regular
> painting style. It will take longer for the paint to dry leaving you a
> larger window of opportunity to blend and shade.
>
mmmmmm retard...
<snip>
> Ahhh, in that case I might suggest the following. If you're doing
> large areas of flame on a vehicle, first underpaint the flame design on
> your vehicle in white paint and let it dry completely. (If for some
> reason your white paint doesn't adequately cover the area, apply
> additional coats of white as needed until you get the desired coverage.)
> Once you have your white under-painting done, cover the whole of the
> flame shape with your yellow. (Yellow is often very transparent, thus
> the white underpainting helps to reflect more light back up through the
> yellow making it look brighter.) Let the yellow dry completely. Now
> you do your blending - break out the gel retarding agent if you need it,
> but take some of your yellow paint and add a tiny bit of your orange to
> it (retarder really is a help with blending and gives you more time -
> especially if you're painting something larger like flames on a
> vehicle). Paint the highest areas of the inner flame with your yellow
> orange mix. Keep adding in more orange to your mix (and eventually red
> if desired) as you work your way down to the base of the flames. By
> adding and blending the orange to your yellow and slowly blending it
> together on your model, hopefully you'll end up with a smooth gradiation
> from yellow tops and edges to deep red centers on your flames.
Another technique for blending large areas would be to bust out the oil
paints or even some alkyds and use them, they stay wet anywhere from 5
hours - 8 months depending on how thick the paint is applied. But
unless you are putting the stuff on an inch thick it should dry within a
few hours. And that drying time beats retarded acrylic (had to do that)
hands down. Problem is oils are a bitch to clean (mmm... turpentine
/mineral spirits) and are highly toxic. (mmmm.. toxic) But other than
that they should work fairly well, also if you are going to use oils,
make sure that you are not using an acrylic based primer, as the paint
most likely won't stick.
Lastly, if you have an airbrush use that..
-Mark
--
RGMW FAQ - Read the darn thing, or don ye asbestos suit knave
http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
Myrmidon
pheldd...@subdimension.com, Mark Story shouted out the following
words of wit...
> Myrmidon wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Another technique for blending large areas would be to bust out the oil
> paints or even some alkyds and use them, they stay wet anywhere from 5
> hours - 8 months depending on how thick the paint is applied. But
> unless you are putting the stuff on an inch thick it should dry within a
> few hours. And that drying time beats retarded acrylic (had to do that)
> hands down.
Depends on the type of acrylic retarding agent you're using. Some
will keep acrylics in a workable state for very long periods of time.
Even for a large model - do you really need 5 hours of time to blend
flame patterns? Only if you're terminally slow...
> Problem is oils are a bitch to clean (mmm... turpentine
> /mineral spirits) and are highly toxic. (mmmm.. toxic) But other than
> that they should work fairly well,
Except for a few other problems you didn't mention.... First
problem with oils is that if you do more than blend, such as paint over
other colors in transparent layers, you have to use the 'lean to fat'
technique where you paint the undercoats in thinner and faster drying
layers. Otherwise you run the risk of having cracks in the paint
surface at the top layer drys faster than the layer(s) below. You also
fail to mention that you then have to worry about varnishing the minis
once the oil is completely dry as oil paints are NOT designed for
surfaces that are handled a lot - such as minis. The second problem is
that oil paints are more likely to react with varnish or sealants and
can cause a yellowing of the mini with age, and can even crack if the
oil paint underneath isn't completely dry when the sealant is applied.
(Remember that long drying time you were speaking of...) Yet another
draw back to oil paint is the fact that certain insects find the
pigments or other materials in oil paints to be very tasty. More than a
few old paintings have been destroyed by insects. (Ever wonder why good
'archival quality' modern water color paper like 'Arches' smells bad
when you first wet it? It's got mold inhibitors and insecticides in it
- Oh Joy!)
> also if you are going to use oils,
> make sure that you are not using an acrylic based primer, as the paint
> most likely won't stick.
I have no clue where you got this notion of not using oil over an
acrylic base from, but it's just plain incorrect. Most modern oil
painters use Gesso - which is nothing more than an acrylic base without
any pigment - to seal their canvas surfaces before painting on them.
Otherwise the materials in oil paint will destroy the fibers of the
canvas itself over time. In the old days artists used rabbit skin
sizing (ie rabbit skin glue) to seal oil painting canvases before
painting on them. More than a few artists employ the technique of
underpainting with acrylics before using oils to great effect. They
paint their images on the canvas like a black and white photograph using
acrylic paints. They then paint over the underpainting with multiple
thin layers of transparent oil paint. This lets light pass through the
oil paint to the surface underneath and back out again to the eye giving
a really deep, rich, and lusterous look to the painting. Another
alternative that works well is contrasting underpainting. An example
would be painting an apple on your canvas with Green acrylics before
painting over it with various shades of red oil paint. (The tiny
amounts of green showing through the red would be almost invisible to
the naked eye, and yet cause the contrasting red paint on top to appear
much more striking due to the almost subconsious interplay of the
contrasts.)
>
> Lastly, if you have an airbrush use that..
>
> -Mark
>
Hey, if you've got an airbrush - send it to me! I'd love to get
one, but just don't have the extra $$$ to do it at the moment.
Later,
Myrmidon