[40K] Tactica Walkers
Erik Setzer
for beginners mainly, as well as veterans (after all, beginners need
tactics more than veterans!).
-Erik
TACTICA WALKERS
Walkers are one of the most unique classes of vehicle in the Warhammer
40,000 game. Their role is almost always one of support, but they can
just as easily be used to lead an assault, or hold a location. Walkers
are ideal for accompanying infantry as they march forward, eventually
reaching combat, were most walkers (but not all) excel.
While the tactics usable by a walker vary according to which army it
belongs to, some apply to all walkers. In any army, a walker is useful
support for your troops. It can march alongside them, lending its weapons
fire, and then assault when the troops are ready to, or protect the
troops from an assault. Similarly, the walker can protect the troops
from ranged attacks by providing a screen for them. You have to remember,
though, that while your opponent's troops can't fire through your
walker, neither can your troops. This is a somewhat dangerous job for
the walker; even as it protects the infantry behind it from light arms
fire, it also takes the brunt of any heavy weapons.
Walkers can also be used to "anchor" the flanks of your army. This gives
you protection from assaults to the sides of your army, as well as adding
some stability and spreading out your heavy weapons to give them more
targets.
The rest of this tactica is broken down by army, sometimes placing a few
armies together where it is best to do so.
SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
game. Their armour will protect them from small arms or light heavy
weapons (with the exception of their rear armour, which should be watched
carefully), they have a great selection of weapons, and they're able to
perform assaults wonderfully.
Dreadnoughts are well suited to any of the tactics listed above.
However, Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
assault role, whether its supporting your infantry or leading its own
assault, and Chaos Space Marine Dreadnoughts should be left a safe
distance from the rest of your troops, making their own attacks on the
opposing army. A special note here should be made about Space Wolves
Venerable Dreadnoughts. Veing able to soak up a lot of fire and having
better stats makes them a prime candidate for leading an assault. Don't
use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
never.
The way you arm your Dreadnought depends on the army you'll be facing,
and the role you want it to perform. A Dreadnought that will see action
against heavily armoured troops, other Dreadnoughts, or vehicles should
use stronger heavy weapons and be armed with a powerfist. A twin-linked
lascannon works well for this, or a plasma cannon. Against lighter troops
or vehicles, and acting in an infantry support or anchor role, weapons
such as the missile launcher, assault cannon, and powerfist work well. If
you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
IMPERIAL GUARD
The Imperial Guard Sentinel is a light walker, lightly armed, and as such
should probably be used in any role other than leading an assault. The
light armour will give it problems tryingto screen your troops from fire,
so don't do this unless it's absolutely necessary. It is worth noting
that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some
troops, but should not be used in any assault in which it might be
overwhelmed.
The weak armour of the Sentinel resigns it somewhat to a support role. It
can also be used for a forward thrust if you're feeling particularly
aggressive, or for flank attacks, using the extra pre-game move to get
started on its way. While these are both risky maneuvers with your
Sentinels, they can pay off well, possibly taking your opponent by
surprise - especially with Catachan Sentinels, which can assault a rather
surprised enemy and cause havoc!
The choice of weapons you have for your Sentinels is limited to three
weapons: a multi-laser, a heavy flamer, or a lascannon. The heavy flamer
is only good if you want to protect your troops from assaults or go on an
assault with the Sentinel, as its low range prevents it from being useful
in any other role. Also, the relatively low strength keeps it from
harming most vehicles. The multilaser is only useful against light
vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties. The
lascannon is your best bet for going after heavy vehicles and heavy
troops, with high strength and AP. It's also the most expensive. Use it
for a fire support role. APCs should be your prime target, keeping your
troops from being assaulted by enemy troops too quickly.
ORKS
Orks have two choices of walkers. First up is the Ork Dreadnought, which
is similar in function to the Space MArine Dreadnought. However, the Ork
Dreadnought is more useful for assaults than shooting, although it can do
rather well with firepower. Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
vehicles, pairing up a big shoota with a skorcher or rokkit launcher
respectively. You can take two of the same weapon, allowing you to have a
twin-linked weapon. This is practically useless with a skorcher,
marginally useful with a big shoota, and extremely useful with a rokkit
launcher (assuming you want a pure anti-vehicle Deadnought).
Ork Dreadnoughts, and to a certain extent the Killer Kanz, work rather
well in an assault. However, don't try to take either of them against a
character or another Dreadnought. The low Initiative, as well as the
Killer Kanz' light armour, will make your walkers quite vulnerable.
Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
can kill them before they can strike back. Assaulting tanks is the best
way to take them out in an Ork army, and their walkers excel at the job.
Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
Avoid combats with groups of strong models, or enemy Dreadnoughts. Killer
Kanz best work for protecting the flanks and launching assaults, but are
rather weak in a screening role.
TAU
The Tau have two types of walker. The first type is the Broadside
Battlesuit. The Broadside's sole job is to fire at opposing vehicles and
heavy infantry and take them out. It can either move forward supporting
your infantry, or sit back and take out vehicles. Don't waste your
Broadside by using them as a screen or trying to perform assaults with
them, as all Tau battlesuits (with the exception of Commander Sho'vah, a
special character) are weak in assaults. Flank defense is also a waste,
unless your opponent sends his APCs down the flanks. They're one of the
greatest dangers to your army, so you'll want to take them out early,
which is relatively easy with the twin linked light rail guns.
The second type of walker for the Tau is the Crisis Battlesuit. These
are always taken in groups, and should use the same weapons. Plasma
rifles and burst cannons are great for taking out infantry, as are the
missiles. If you want to take out enemy vehicles with your Crisis suits,
give them fusion cannons. Crisis suits work in any role, with the
obvious exception of assaulting the enemy. I suggest using them to back
up your Fire Warriors.
Two special notes should be made about the Tau. First, they can assign
shield drones to protect their walkers, and this will keep them from
being destroyed too quickly and easily. Second, and quite important, is
the matter of your battlesuitÜequipped commander. Even though he is in a
Crisis battlesuit and can be equipped with a range of weapons and
wargear, don't try to use him as you would a normal walker. Instead, keep
him back with your Fire Warriors and protect them as well as giving them
the benefits of having their leader close by.
BIG GUYS
Many armies include models that resemble walkers in function, but don't
use the same rules. These include Eldar Wraithlords, Dark Eldar Talos,
Greater Daemons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures, etc. Use them as you would
a walker, but remember that they are more vulnerable to small arms and
heavy weapons fire (the exception being the Eldar Wraithlord) and can
take a few more hits generally. These "Big Guys" can be grouped into two
classes: Assault and Combined Attack.
The Assault category of "Big Guys" includes those models whose sole role
is to fight in hand to hand combat. These models should be used to head
your assaults on enemy units and vehicles, being able to do massive
damage up close. Don't bother holding them back, because unlike walkers
these models are not armed with long ranged heavy weapons.
The Combined Attack category includes models that are great in an assault
but also have some form of ranged weaponry - much like true walkers. They
work in any role you'd assign to a walker, excelling at none. It's
usually best to get the "Big Guys" into the thick of it, as they're a bit
vulnerable to ranged attacks. Use them to support your infantry or watch
the flanks as you move forward, then assault the opposing army as soon as
you're in range.
CONCLUSION
Hopefully this article has opened your eyes to some ideas for what to do
with your walkers and similar models. This is by no means a definitive
listing of all of the tactics you can perform with your walkers, but it
should give you a good start in finding out just what is best for you and
your particular tactics. With new rules such as Force Marching and the
Vehicle Design Rules creeping up quite often in Chapter Approved, it
would be impossible to cover every situation. I suggest you try out all
of the ideas outlined above before sticking to any particular tactic, and
changing how you use your walkers between some of your games to keep your
opponents on their toes.
--
Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Astral Projections
http://www.geocities.com/kaptingavrin
"You can't make a cosmic omelet without breaking a few world eggs."
James Sutherland
Phillip Manning
> The way you arm your Dreadnought depends on the army you'll be facing,
> and the role you want it to perform. A Dreadnought that will see action
> against heavily armoured troops, other Dreadnoughts, or vehicles should
> use stronger heavy weapons and be armed with a powerfist. A twin-linked
> lascannon works well for this, or a plasma cannon. Against lighter troops
> or vehicles, and acting in an infantry support or anchor role, weapons
> such as the missile launcher, assault cannon, and powerfist work well. If
> you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
> combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
Survey says......*buzzer*. You get ONE of the big guns per dread there
Sparky. At least I am dead certain that is the rule for CSMs, and I am
pretty sure it holds true for SMs as well (at least vanilla). And as far as
the powerfist goes, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt a dread come
with a CCW that acts as a powerfist (i.e. raising str to 10) unless you
replace it with a missile launcher? I do suppose of course you could be
making a VDR dread, but even then it would be a dread CCW. Sorry, but at
that point, any credibility I would have lent this piece just went bye-bye.
Phillip
"Iron Within, Iron Without."
Phillip Manning
Here's a question. How the hell do you know all this? I mean, can you give
weapon specs and all that fun stuff? Or is this from your own Tau codex?
Phillip
RT Maitreya
> SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
> you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
> combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
What?
Either read the codices more carefully, or explain this better.
You failed in one of the two.
Your second weapon option for SM Dreads is ONE OF THE FOLLOWING.
One, not zero, not two, not anything else at all:
CC + Storm Bolter
CC + Heavy Flamer
Missile Launcher
That's it; no other alternative at all for your second weapon.
RTM
James Sutherland
Phillip Manning wrote:
Naaa, it's from Shitzer's ass.
Evil_is_fun_incrdbil
wrote
>
>
>SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
>
>Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
>game.
then you need to read Codex: Eldar.
Don't
>use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
>never.
and this is based on what?
>
>The way you arm your Dreadnought depends on the army you'll be facing,
>and the role you want it to perform. A Dreadnought that will see action
>against heavily armoured troops, other Dreadnoughts, or vehicles should
>use stronger heavy weapons and be armed with a powerfist. A twin-linked
>lascannon works well for this, or a plasma cannon
the plasma cannon works decently versus light vehicles or power armor,
but not reliably against real vehicles, and features more range
problems--making the TL LC a very wirthwhile option.
If
>you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
>combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
>cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
>and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
Perhaps you should delete the second ediiton rules segment from this
article.
incrdbil
-= EVIL JIMI =-
In other words, its another pathetic piece of drivel from a 'tard who knows
nothing about 40k3.
> This is for beginners mainly, as well as veterans (after all, beginners
need
> tactics more than veterans!).
Perhaps if you had anything worthy to convey to beginners then it would be
worthwhile to do so - sadly, your tactica articles are nothing but 'Janet
and John' books set in a sci-fi environment. Hell, even 'Spot' books are a
better read and offer more info!!
> Similarly, the walker can protect the troops from ranged attacks by
> providing a screen for them.
Only to a select few who actually hide behind the walker itself - try
screening a 10-man squad with a single walker.
> Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
> game.
I'm glad its just your opinion - have you ever looked at a Wraithlord?? Do
you know what one is??
> A special note here should be made about Space Wolves
> Venerable Dreadnoughts. Veing able to soak up a lot of fire and having
> better stats makes them a prime candidate for leading an assault. Don't
> use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
> never.
Dont play SW, do ya??
> The way you arm your Dreadnought depends on the army you'll be facing,
And in every 40k game, you know exactly who you'll be facing??
> A twin-linked lascannon works well for this, or a plasma cannon.
PC is ST7 - not much cop against tough vehicles. Funny how you placed the
missile launcher in the 'against lighter troops and vehicles' category when
its ST is better than the PC. I suggest you read up on weapon stats asap!!
> Against lighter troops
> or vehicles, and acting in an infantry support or anchor role, weapons
> such as the missile launcher, assault cannon, and powerfist work well.
Ass-cans, twin-autocannons and twin-heavy bolters make short work of lightly
armoured troops and vehicles. A reading of the weapon stats list would show
this.
> If
> you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with
> a combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
Aint gonna happen unless you use the VDR system - stop reading 2nd Ed
material and concentrate on the current system, 40k3.
> The Imperial Guard Sentinel is a light walker, lightly armed, and as such
Forgot about the lascannon version, didnt ya, brainiak??
> It is worth noting
> that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some troops
As can any Sentinel.
> but should not be used in any assault in which it might be overwhelmed.
Duh!! Spot the obvious why dont you!!
> The choice of weapons you have for your Sentinels is limited to three
> weapons: a multi-laser, a heavy flamer, or a lascannon.
Only someone who's spent the last 10 years on Mars doesnt know this.
> The heavy flamer
> is only good if you want to protect your troops from assaults or go on an
> assault with the Sentinel
Dont go on the assault with sentinels but go on the assault with a sentinel
with a heavy flamer?? Which is it, brainiak??
<snip common-knowledge Ork stuff>
> TAU
Who did you leech this stuff from??
> CONCLUSION
Apart from you not having a clue??
> Hopefully this article has opened your eyes to some ideas for what to do
> with your walkers and similar models.
Nope - just showed what a waste of space this article is.
> This is by no means a definitive listing of all of the tactics you can
perform
> with your walkers
What tactics?? All you did was gloss over the weapon fits for walkers (and
got that wrong for SM dreads!!) and mention what certain weapons do. Wheres
the tactics??
> should give you a good start in finding out just what is best for you and
> your particular tactics.
Yup - stay away from Setzer tactica articles, you'll learn more by avoiding
them!!
> it would be impossible to cover every situation.
Good, shut up now.
> Floridiot Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
Brown shirts ahoy!!
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Funny how you mouthed off at everyone who are called 'regs' and now you call
yourself one - you must really have a need to be accepted here, pity it wont
happen.
> "You can't make a cosmic omelet without breaking a few world eggs."
"You cant make a war hero out of a fake SEAL called Thomas Setzer - but some
'tard loser like Erik will always try!!"
Jimi
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Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
out most of the numerous mistakes Erik's made, so I'll leave 'em to it... :)
--
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Blue Raja
>Walkers
>are ideal for accompanying infantry as they march forward, eventually
>reaching combat, were most walkers (but not all) excel.
Let's see, (currently released) walkers are: SM and CSM dreads (we'll count
them as one, since they're very similar and you also counted them as one),
Wraithlords, War Walkers (neither of which are mentioned properly),
Sentinels. That's 4, of which 2 are good at HtH, and 2 downright suck.
Hardly most. Also, since the 2 the aren't good at HtH are cheaper, they
would expectedly be more numerous, thus "most" walkers do not excel in HtH.
>This is a somewhat dangerous job for
>the walker; even as it protects the infantry behind it from light arms
>fire, it also takes the brunt of any heavy weapons.
Especially since Sentinels are barely more capable of taking hits than the
guardsmen they'd be screening
>SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
>
>Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
>game.
Before Wraithlords?
>Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
>assault role,
I thought with 2 powerfists I'd just sit back, happily maximising their cost
by sniping with the storm bolters...
>If
>you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
>combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
>cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
>and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
Erm... sure...
>It is worth noting
>that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some
>troops, but should not be used in any assault in which it might be
>overwhelmed.
So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a unit of
3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
>The multilaser is only useful against light
>vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
>good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
>damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
>they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties.
You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign maybe.
>Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
>you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
>vehicles,
Since mixing anti-infantry and anti-armour weapons is always a good idea...
>Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
>can kill them before they can strike back.
Nice standard idea that can be applied anywhere.
>Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
>least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
>since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
Although we should mix weapons on Dreads?
>BIG GUYS
>
>Many armies include models that resemble walkers in function, but don't
>use the same rules. These include Eldar Wraithlords,
Ah, here it is.
Dark Eldar Talos,
I probably wouldn't group this with walkers considering that IT DOESN'T HAVE
ANY LEGS!
>Greater Daemons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures, etc. Use them as you would
>a walker, but remember that they are more vulnerable to small arms and
>heavy weapons fire (the exception being the Eldar Wraithlord) and can
>take a few more hits generally.
So they're more vulnerable but can take more hits... huh?
--
The Blue Raja
"If anything, I think the NG would collectively describe you as "the village
idiot", rather than a "regular"." - John Hwang to Erik
Your local friendly [Tag Nazi]
RGMW FAQ - I LEIK MILK!
http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
RT Maitreya
> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a unit of
> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
Sorry, but this is a really good quote.
> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign maybe.
They're better agains marines than big shootas.
RTM
EVIL Craig Little
Erik Setzer <er...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.15d50497e...@news.jacksonville.net...
> Here's something I just wrote up. Let me know what you think.
Gladly.
This is
> for beginners mainly, as well as veterans (after all, beginners need
> tactics more than veterans!).
<Blakemore>Plus from you're previous 'Tactica' it's obvious you don't know
shit about Veteran tactics</Blakemore>
> -Erik
>
>
> TACTICA WALKERS
>
> Walkers are one of the most unique classes of vehicle in the Warhammer
> 40,000 game.
Unique: "One and only, unusual" in this context one of the one and only
classes makes very little sense.
> Their role is almost always one of support, but they can
> just as easily be used to lead an assault, or hold a location.
If this is the case WHY are they almost always used as support? could it be
that *gasp* this is one of their tactical strengths? If so this Tactica
should maybe mention it and the reasosn behind it...
>Walkers
> are ideal for accompanying infantry as they march forward, eventually
> reaching combat, were most walkers (but not all) excel.
In fact a little under half are good in CC, which is a starnge definition of
most, unlike say "most active posters to RGMW signed a list to state their
dislike of Erik Setzer" which is a factually accurate definition of most.
> While the tactics usable by a walker vary according to which army it
> belongs to, some apply to all walkers. In any army, a walker is useful
> support for your troops. It can march alongside them, lending its weapons
> fire, and then assault when the troops are ready to, or protect the
> troops from an assault.
So this says "walkers are useful units" WE KNOW THIS, THIS IS NOT TACTICS
> Similarly, the walker can protect the troops
> from ranged attacks by providing a screen for them.
You're right, I'd forgotten just how many times 20 guardians ina firing
formation can squueze behind one wraithlord, guess I'll have to make more
Eldar pyramid movement trays.
>You have to remember,
> though, that while your opponent's troops can't fire through your
> walker, neither can your troops. This is a somewhat dangerous job for
> the walker; even as it protects the infantry behind it from light arms
> fire, it also takes the brunt of any heavy weapons.
Which is suicidal in any IG army for example...
> The rest of this tactica is broken down by army, sometimes placing a few
> armies together where it is best to do so.
Will this section include any tacticas or will you continue in the same
vein?
> SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
>
> Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
> game.
Tell that to my Wraithlord / Harlie Wraithlord.
>Their armour will protect them from small arms or light heavy
> weapons (with the exception of their rear armour, which should be watched
> carefully),
Bright Lance.
>they have a great selection of weapons, and they're able to
> perform assaults wonderfully.
> Dreadnoughts are well suited to any of the tactics listed above.
There weren't any.
> However, Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
> assault role, whether its supporting your infantry or leading its own
> assault,
Even a newbie might figure that a dread with two stormbolters and nothing
else might suck a little as a long range firebase after, oh, 3 seconds of
looking at the weapons table.
>and Chaos Space Marine Dreadnoughts should be left a safe
> distance from the rest of your troops, making their own attacks on the
> opposing army.
My god! a tactic!
> A special note here should be made about Space Wolves
> Venerable Dreadnoughts. Veing able to soak up a lot of fire and having
> better stats makes them a prime candidate for leading an assault. Don't
> use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
> never.
Why is this, explain your reasonings so these newbies you're purporting to
inform might have some idea of why you think this is a bad idea.
> The way you arm your Dreadnought depends on the army you'll be facing,
> and the role you want it to perform.
And if you don't know what army you're facing?
>A Dreadnought that will see action
> against heavily armoured troops, other Dreadnoughts, or vehicles should
> use stronger heavy weapons and be armed with a powerfist. A twin-linked
> lascannon works well for this, or a plasma cannon.
A plasma cannon only has strength 7, and is more sooted to cracking light
vehicles and well armoured troops...
>Against lighter troops
> or vehicles, and acting in an infantry support or anchor role, weapons
> such as the missile launcher, assault cannon, and powerfist work well.
Of course, you're ST8 Krak missiles are absolutle useless against tough
vehicles, obviously.
> If
> you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
> combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought,
> or twin linked heavy bolters
> and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
>
Erik, 3rd Edition was launched in '98, 4th edition will be launched next
year. This is 2nd Edition stuff which is going to be of a great help to all
the newbies who bough the old game system just so that they could do this,
but no others...
> IMPERIAL GUARD
>
> The Imperial Guard Sentinel is a light walker, lightly armed,
lightly armed with a Lascannon? I've got a lightly armed Land Raider with my
Sallies if that's the case
> and as such
> should probably be used in any role other than leading an assault.
Where it'll perform as well as any other imperial Guarad unit. as enemy-chow
The
> light armour will give it problems tryingto screen your troops from fire,
> so don't do this unless it's absolutely necessary. It is worth noting
> that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some
> troops, but should not be used in any assault in which it might be
> overwhelmed.
Such as anything other than IG/Eldar units which are of 4 models or less...
>
> The weak armour of the Sentinel resigns it somewhat to a support role. It
> can also be used for a forward thrust if you're feeling particularly
> aggressive, or for flank attacks, using the extra pre-game move to get
> started on its way. While these are both risky maneuvers with your
> Sentinels, they can pay off well, possibly taking your opponent by
> surprise - especially with Catachan Sentinels, which can assault a rather
> surprised enemy and cause havoc!
Yeah, my Banshees are quaking in their high heels
> The choice of weapons you have for your Sentinels is limited to three
> weapons: a multi-laser, a heavy flamer, or a lascannon. The heavy flamer
> is only good if you want to protect your troops from assaults or go on an
> assault with the Sentinel, as its low range prevents it from being useful
> in any other role. Also, the relatively low strength keeps it from
> harming most vehicles. The multilaser is only useful against light
> vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
> good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
> damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
> they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties. The
> lascannon is your best bet for going after heavy vehicles and heavy
> troops, with high strength and AP. It's also the most expensive. Use it
> for a fire support role. APCs should be your prime target, keeping your
> troops from being assaulted by enemy troops too quickly.
So that's a look at the weapon fit options rather than an in depth tatcical
analysis. funny I though this wasn't labelled codex: Walkers...
> ORKS
>
> Orks have two choices of walkers. First up is the Ork Dreadnought, which
> is similar in function to the Space MArine Dreadnought. However, the Ork
> Dreadnought is more useful for assaults than shooting, although it can do
> rather well with firepower.
Whereas Marine dreadnoughts (apart from Furioso) are more suited to shooting
than assualt, so they have similar functions with wildly different
Strengths. I see.
>
> Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
> can kill them before they can strike back.
Sound advice, but not exactly specific to Walkers now, is it?
>
> TAU
>
<censored by GW legal> so you're friend with the playtest codex and the
water-tight NDA lives again?
>
> BIG GUYS
>
> Many armies include models that resemble walkers in function, but don't
> use the same rules.
Where are the War walkers discussed then, hhmmm? they're not 'Big guys'
>
> The Assault category of "Big Guys" includes those models whose sole role
> is to fight in hand to hand combat. These models should be used to head
> your assaults on enemy units and vehicles, being able to do massive
> damage up close. Don't bother holding them back, because unlike walkers
> these models are not armed with long ranged heavy weapons.
So units armed for close combat should be used in close combat EGAD! The
blindind flash of the obvious has tortured my retinas.
Use them to support your infantry or watch
> the flanks as you move forward, then assault the opposing army as soon as
> you're in range.
How? This is a tactics article with approximately 3 tactics in it, only 1
non-Orky.
> CONCLUSION
>
> Hopefully this article has opened your eyes to some ideas for what to do
> with your walkers and similar models.
More likely you're brain is trying to dribble out yur ears and work out why
you wasted valuable minutes of your life reading this.
> This is by no means a definitive
> listing of all of the tactics you can perform with your walkers,
Or indeed any of the tactics...
> With new rules such as Force Marching and the
> Vehicle Design Rules creeping up quite often in Chapter Approved, it
> would be impossible to cover every situation. I suggest you try out all
> of the ideas outlined above before sticking to any particular tactic, and
> changing how you use your walkers between some of your games to keep your
> opponents on their toes.
>
So you're recommending not really following this article's advice, my that's
2 non-orky tactics in this post, wahey!
--
EVIL Craig (Looking Forward to reading "Tactica: Fucktard" which might
contain something erik can do...)
RGMW [TAG] Fairy
Wearer of badly dry-cleaned Green Hat #296
And bearer of EVIL #11
But at least I read this FAQ:
http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
There's a sucker born every minute. But only one in ten swallows
DISCLAIMER
----------------------
I mean what I say in my posts enough not to need a shitty disclaimer
Blue Raja
>Blue Raja wrote:
>
>> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a unit
of
>> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
>
>Sorry, but this is a really good quote.
About time I made one ;o)
>> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign
maybe.
>
>They're better agains marines than big shootas.
No way, I bet I can beat any army with my Orks with only big shootas.
Actually I was going to parody the whole post as "Tactica Wankers" or
"Craptica Wankers", but I couldn't be bothered typing the whole thing.
Blue Raja
>>and Chaos Space Marine Dreadnoughts should be left a safe
>> distance from the rest of your troops, making their own attacks on the
>> opposing army.
>
>My god! a tactic!
Unfortunately no proof-reading plan is completely successful, in this case a
lone tactic has slipped past Erik, almost ruining what was an otherwise
completely useless article.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> for beginners mainly, as well as veterans (after all, beginners need
> tactics more than veterans!).
> -Erik
>
>
> TACTICA WALKERS
Didn't Matt Sprange cover this in WD a while back?
--
The Old & EVIL Bear (CoJ Hat #3 - the *real* one)
Come to Room 301 in the Inner Sanctum (but knock first)
This post has been approved by Paul Dolphin
The Old & EVIL Bear
"Evil_is_fun_incrdbil" <incr...@nospam.flinthills.com> wrote in message
news:3b6b8c2a...@usenet.flinthills.com...
Or indeed the whole article.
The Old & EVIL Bear
"Blue Raja" <the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:3b6c089b$0$20923$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> RT Maitreya wrote in message <3B6C01F4...@speakeasy.org>...
> >Blue Raja wrote:
> >
> >> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a
unit
> of
> >> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
> >
> >Sorry, but this is a really good quote.
>
> About time I made one ;o)
>
> >> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign
> maybe.
> >
> >They're better agains marines than big shootas.
>
> No way, I bet I can beat any army with my Orks with only big shootas.
>
> Actually I was going to parody the whole post as "Tactica Wankers" or
> "Craptica Wankers", but I couldn't be bothered typing the whole thing.
"Whoa! Easy on the use of 'wankers' there, mister!" - William Shatner
The Old & EVIL Bear
"Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore"
<dan...@blakemore81.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9kgn9k$4d$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> <snip>My god...yet more useless drivel. Everyone else has already pointed
> out most of the numerous mistakes Erik's made, so I'll leave 'em to it...
:)
I could be totally wrong here, and I'm going from memory, but didn't Erik
criticise Matt's article in WD when he suggested using walkers as a screen?
Matthew Sprange
> criticise Matt's article in WD when he suggested using walkers as a
screen?
That did occur to me :)
Matthew
The Old & EVIL Bear
"Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:pyUa7.155943$cc1.8...@nnrp3.clara.net...
Should have guessed you'd be lurking around this guff...
Evil_is_fun_incrdbil
<hindu...@yahoo.SPAMTRAP?.WHAT.ARE.YOU.TALKING.ABOUT.com> wrote:
The rest of this tactica is broken down by army, sometimes placing a
few
>> armies together where it is best to do so.
>
>Will this section include any tacticas or will you continue in the same
>vein?
perhaps he should have called it a review--but still, he manages to
fail adequately discussing many of them, or simply commits many
errors. Call it a review, Glance, Tactica, ..it's still crap.
>
>
>> However, Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
>> assault role, whether its supporting your infantry or leading its own
>> assault,
>
>Even a newbie might figure that a dread with two stormbolters and nothing
>else might suck a little as a long range firebase after, oh, 3 seconds of
>looking at the weapons table.
Perhaps Erik thinks begginers think like him?
>
>>and Chaos Space Marine Dreadnoughts should be left a safe
>> distance from the rest of your troops, making their own attacks on the
>> opposing army.
>
>My god! a tactic!
and nicely copied from codex: chaos too. :)
>
>> A special note here should be made about Space Wolves
>> Venerable Dreadnoughts. Veing able to soak up a lot of fire and having
>> better stats makes them a prime candidate for leading an assault. Don't
>> use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
>> never.
>
>Why is this, explain your reasonings so these newbies you're purporting to
>inform might have some idea of why you think this is a bad idea.
You're asking him to provide proof?
>
>> With new rules such as Force Marching and the
>> Vehicle Design Rules creeping up quite often in Chapter Approved, it
>> would be impossible to cover every situation. I suggest you try out all
>> of the ideas outlined above before sticking to any particular tactic, and
>> changing how you use your walkers between some of your games to keep your
>> opponents on their toes.
>>
>So you're recommending not really following this article's advice, my that's
>2 non-orky tactics in this post, wahey!
>
Well heck, trying out all of the ideas above should take, what, 5
minutes anyway?
incrdbil
Blue Raja
>
>"Blue Raja" <the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3b6c089b$0$20923$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
>> RT Maitreya wrote in message <3B6C01F4...@speakeasy.org>...
>> >Blue Raja wrote:
>> >
>> >> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a
>unit
>> of
>> >> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
>> >
>> >Sorry, but this is a really good quote.
>>
>> About time I made one ;o)
>>
>> >> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign
>> maybe.
>> >
>> >They're better agains marines than big shootas.
>>
>> No way, I bet I can beat any army with my Orks with only big shootas.
>>
>> Actually I was going to parody the whole post as "Tactica Wankers" or
>> "Craptica Wankers", but I couldn't be bothered typing the whole thing.
>
>"Whoa! Easy on the use of 'wankers' there, mister!" - William Shatner
I think your time away from RGMW has made you soft (no pun intended).
Report to Big Al for a full workover, mister.
Ned Leavitt
not quite. He mentions "light and heavy" weapons. I don't know chaos dreads,
but a vanilla one has a heavy weapon right arm, and the left arm close
combat weapon by default has a storm bolter, which can be upgraded to a
heavy flamer, or the whole arm switched for a missile launcher.
--
-NEd
God help us, we're in the hands of engineers.
-Jurassic Park
Ned Leavitt
the main rulebook at least once.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> The Old & EVIL Bear wrote in message
<9kh41p$bsp$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> >
> >"Blue Raja" <the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
> >news:3b6c089b$0$20923$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> >> RT Maitreya wrote in message <3B6C01F4...@speakeasy.org>...
> >> >Blue Raja wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a
> >unit
> >> of
> >> >> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG
squads!
> >> >
> >> >Sorry, but this is a really good quote.
> >>
> >> About time I made one ;o)
> >>
> >> >> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign
> >> maybe.
> >> >
> >> >They're better agains marines than big shootas.
> >>
> >> No way, I bet I can beat any army with my Orks with only big shootas.
> >>
> >> Actually I was going to parody the whole post as "Tactica Wankers" or
> >> "Craptica Wankers", but I couldn't be bothered typing the whole thing.
> >
> >"Whoa! Easy on the use of 'wankers' there, mister!" - William Shatner
>
> I think your time away from RGMW has made you soft (no pun intended).
> Report to Big Al for a full workover, mister.
What I mean is don't go using a perfectly good and useful word/act on Erik.
Matthew Maggio
-= EVIL JIMI =- wrote:
<snip>
>> "You can't make a cosmic omelet without breaking a few world eggs."
> "You cant make a war hero out of a fake SEAL called Thomas Setzer - but some
> 'tard loser like Erik will always try!!"
Hey...that's kind of catchy. I like it!
--Matt
-= EVIL JIMI =-
> contain something erik can do...)
ROTFLMAO!!
Erik Setzer
out the "Big Guys" (Wraithlords, etc.) and moving the Tau to where they
*belong*.
-Erik
--
Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
http://www.geocities.com/kaptingavrin
Erik Setzer
> Survey says......*buzzer*. You get ONE of the big guns per dread there
> Sparky. At least I am dead certain that is the rule for CSMs, and I am
> pretty sure it holds true for SMs as well (at least vanilla). And as far as
> the powerfist goes, and correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt a dread come
> with a CCW that acts as a powerfist (i.e. raising str to 10) unless you
> replace it with a missile launcher? I do suppose of course you could be
> making a VDR dread, but even then it would be a dread CCW. Sorry, but at
> that point, any credibility I would have lent this piece just went bye-bye.
My mistake for wording it in a rather stupid way. I didn't mean to take
two heavy weapons on the same Dread. I was actually suggesting two
Dreads. I've always known SMs can only have one heavy weapon (with the
exception of the ML) on their Dreads, and wouldn't ever suggest getting
rid of the CCW unless someone really wanted to.
That's one of the mistakes I alluded to in the post I just made. Sorry
for the confusion, and thanks for pointing it out.
Erik Setzer
> > TAU
>
> Here's a question. How the hell do you know all this? I mean, can you give
> weapon specs and all that fun stuff? Or is this from your own Tau codex?
CRISIS BATTLESUITS
Profile Pts WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Crisis 30 2 3 5 4 2 3 2 8 3+
BROADSIDE BATTLESUITS
Profile Pts WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
Broadside 70 2 3 5 4 2 3 2 8 2+
Weapon Str AP Type
Burst Gun 5 5 Assault 3
Plasma Rifle 7 2 Rapid Fire
Missile Pod 8 3 Assault 2
Fusion Gun 8 1 Assault 1
Flamer 4 5 Assault 1
Rail Gun 10 1 Heavy 1
Smart Missiles 5 5 Heavy 4
I've got a bit of fixing to do with their placement in the article, but
otherwise no problems I can see.
Erik Setzer
> Erik Setzer wrote:
>
> > SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
> > combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> > cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> > and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
>
>
> Either read the codices more carefully, or explain this better.
> You failed in one of the two.
I failed the latter. I'll correct it in the revision. You'll see what I
really meant when I correct it. (I'll post the revision on a page and
give a link, so no one gripes about its length - because it *will* be
longer).
Trust me, I *know* about the weapon combos for SM Dreads. I use them a
lot, and have even use three in one game...
Erik Setzer
the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au says...
> Erik Setzer wrote in message ...
> >Walkers
> >are ideal for accompanying infantry as they march forward, eventually
> >reaching combat, were most walkers (but not all) excel.
>
> Let's see, (currently released) walkers are: SM and CSM dreads (we'll count
> them as one, since they're very similar and you also counted them as one),
> Wraithlords, War Walkers (neither of which are mentioned properly),
> Sentinels. That's 4, of which 2 are good at HtH, and 2 downright suck.
> Hardly most. Also, since the 2 the aren't good at HtH are cheaper, they
> would expectedly be more numerous, thus "most" walkers do not excel in HtH.
You forgot Ork Dreads and Killer Kanz. War Walkers I forgot, and
Wraithlords I'm going to explain better (they are not technically
walkers, but do have a place in the article - as do Talos and
Carnifexes). Catachan Sentinels are also decent in HTH, having a S5
power weapon.
> >This is a somewhat dangerous job for
> >the walker; even as it protects the infantry behind it from light arms
> >fire, it also takes the brunt of any heavy weapons.
>
> Especially since Sentinels are barely more capable of taking hits than the
> guardsmen they'd be screening
Well, I figured if it's an okay idea for Matt Sprange to publish in WD,
it's fine for me. Let me quote him:
"If the enemy attempts to annihilate the infantry squads through the use
of heavy anti-personnel fire, the Sentinels can simply move to block
lines of sight, shielding the squads as they will be relatively unharmed
by such weaponry."
Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the Tau's
case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical Genius",
it's good enough for me.
> >SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
> >
> >Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
> >game.
>
> Before Wraithlords?
Wraithlords are *not* vehicles, and as such are *not* technically
walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
that don't strike last. That does not make them a Wraithlord.
> >Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
> >assault role,
>
> I thought with 2 powerfists I'd just sit back, happily maximising their cost
> by sniping with the storm bolters...
That's your mistake to make...
> >If
> >you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
> >combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> >cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> >and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
>
> Erm... sure...
Bit of a mistake, I'll correct it.
> >It is worth noting
> >that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some
> >troops, but should not be used in any assault in which it might be
> >overwhelmed.
>
> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a unit of
> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
You can't attack a model if you're not touching it. Sentinels attack,
kill three guys in the squad, and the squad either runs off or is tied
up. Either way, it can be useful.
> >The multilaser is only useful against light
> >vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
> >good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
> >damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
> >they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties.
>
> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign maybe.
With *three* multilasers firing, you will. I didn't think anyone used
less than three.
> >Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
> >you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
> >vehicles,
>
> Since mixing anti-infantry and anti-armour weapons is always a good idea...
Thought I made it clear that it wasn't, though sometimes it *can* be
useful.
> >Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
> >can kill them before they can strike back.
>
> Nice standard idea that can be applied anywhere.
But very true for walkers, which can be penetrated and destroyed by power
fists.
> >Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
> >least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
> >since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
>
> Although we should mix weapons on Dreads?
Sometimes it's worth doing it. The extra model firing at a certain
target can make all the difference.
> >BIG GUYS
> >
> >Many armies include models that resemble walkers in function, but don't
> >use the same rules. These include Eldar Wraithlords,
>
> Ah, here it is.
>
> Dark Eldar Talos,
>
> I probably wouldn't group this with walkers considering that IT DOESN'T HAVE
> ANY LEGS!
I didn't group Wraithlords with Walkers, because it *isn't* a walker!
> >Greater Daemons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures, etc. Use them as you would
> >a walker, but remember that they are more vulnerable to small arms and
> >heavy weapons fire (the exception being the Eldar Wraithlord) and can
> >take a few more hits generally.
>
> So they're more vulnerable but can take more hits... huh?
They have wounds, meaning they aren't able to be destroyed with one shot.
However, they're vulnerable to light weapons (the Carnifex and Greater
Daemons especially). That's something people should be aware of. Now,
separating that into two sentences may avoid confusion, but they are both
valid points.
Erik Setzer
says...
> Didn't Matt Sprange cover this in WD a while back?
No, just Sentinels. Funny enough, he mentioned using them as screens,
something I got slammed for.
Guess that means they don't think of Matt's articles as perfect anymore.
Erik Setzer
says...
> I could be totally wrong here, and I'm going from memory, but didn't Erik
> criticise Matt's article in WD when he suggested using walkers as a screen?
*Sentinels*. Matt only did Sentinels. And I stated that I thought
Sentinels are a poor screen, as I did in my own article.
Erik Setzer
says...
> > That did occur to me :)
>
> Should have guessed you'd be lurking around this guff...
Now if someone can get Matt to show us all where he's done a *walker*
tactics article, and not just Sentinels alone, you might have something
of a point.
Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a Sentinel
article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things before replying.
Erik Setzer
nlea...@home.com says...
> not quite. He mentions "light and heavy" weapons. I don't know chaos dreads,
> but a vanilla one has a heavy weapon right arm, and the left arm close
> combat weapon by default has a storm bolter, which can be upgraded to a
> heavy flamer, or the whole arm switched for a missile launcher.
True, but I did get the explanation wrong. I'm going to have to correct
it.
Evil Northy
>Trust me, I *know* about the weapon combos for SM Dreads. I use them a
>lot, and have even use three in one game...
Is it just me, or is this little bit here about "even use three in one
game..." sound like dick swinging, trying to look cool and add weight
to his shakey "tactica" article by saying he uses them a lot.
-Northy
"Go to hell. Do not pass go, do not collect clue #1"
Evil Northy
>> criticise Matt's article in WD when he suggested using walkers as a screen?
>
>*Sentinels*. Matt only did Sentinels. And I stated that I thought
>Sentinels are a poor screen, as I did in my own article.
Please, point out SPECIFICALLY where you said "Sentinels are a poor
choice for screening Imperial Guardsmen"
...
...
...
Thought so...
-Northy
"Go to hell. Do not pass go, do not collect clue #1."
The Old & EVIL Bear
> Whoops, just spotted some mistakes I've got to correct. Namely leaving
> out the "Big Guys" (Wraithlords, etc.) and moving the Tau to where they
> *belong*.
Where? The bin?
The Old & EVIL Bear
> In article <9kh3od$bkr$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, ki...@enterprise.com
> says...
>
> > Didn't Matt Sprange cover this in WD a while back?
>
> No, just Sentinels. Funny enough, he mentioned using them as screens,
> something I got slammed for.
I seem to recall it was *you* who did the slamming.
>
> Guess that means they don't think of Matt's articles as perfect anymore.
That's right. He's had to crap out a write best selling D&D material
instead. poor bastard.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> In article <9kh4no$qbd$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk>, ki...@enterprise.com
> says...
>
> > > That did occur to me :)
> >
> > Should have guessed you'd be lurking around this guff...
>
> Now if someone can get Matt to show us all where he's done a *walker*
> tactics article, and not just Sentinels alone, you might have something
> of a point.
It may not be a point to you, but that alters it not a jot.
>
> Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a Sentinel
> article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things before replying.
Well, that was guff. Good quality NARPing though.
Peter Cowderoy
> Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
> Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the Tau's
> case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
> concentrations.
>
Well *duh*. The point is that the sentinels will soak up a fuckload more
firepower before dying than the guardsmen will, thus making your opponent
work harder for his kills, something generally considered a Good Idea.
'In Ankh-Morpork even the shit have a street to itself...
Truly this is a land of opportunity.' - Detritus, Men at Arms
smithdoerr
>
> Trust me, I *know* about the weapon combos for SM Dreads. I use them a
> lot, and have even use three in one game...
Erik, why is it that you always try to back up what you say or support your
arguments with unverifiable 'proof' from your personal life? Rather than
giving us a compelling argument to support what you say you always give us
something like: 'I am one of the most INTELLEGENT people in Florida and I'm
going to prove it by telling you I got a perfect 1600 on the SATs at the age
of 12!' or 'To prove how great such-and-such a tactic is I'm going to tell
you that I won 73 games in a row at local tourneys!'
If you "*know* about weapon combos for SM Dreads" then *demonstrate* that
knowledge instead of just saying 'I'm going to prove I know about weapon
combos for SM Dreads by telling you I use them a lot...'
And BTW, if you really were experienced with SM Dreads you *wouldn't* have
suggested arming one with an assault cannon.
--
- smithdoerr
Download the free Warhammer 40k-Wound Calculator ver1.01 at:
http://www.geocities.com/smithdoerr/40k/WoundCalculator.html
Keith Hann
> Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
> Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the Tau's
> case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
> concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical Genius",
> it's good enough for me.
My Dark Eldar reacted with glee when told their splinter rifle was now S4.
Well, as much glee as Dark Eldar can muster: I think they raped a few fields
and pillaged a few women in celebration.
Keith Hann
-= EVIL JIMI =-
>
> > "You cant make a war hero out of a fake SEAL called Thomas Setzer - but
some
> > 'tard loser like Erik will always try!!"
>
> Hey...that's kind of catchy. I like it!
Hehehehe :-)
Matthew Sprange
> article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things before replying.
Other people can correct me if I am wrong, but I don't _think_ I am looking
like the stupid one. . .
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> power weapon.
Will someone please slap this guy?
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> instead. poor bastard.
Oh, the humanity. Erik chased me right out of this hobby with his forth
right thinking and expert knowledge of battle tactics.
I don't know how I coped at the Fantasy GT. . .
Matthew
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
dreads,
> > but a vanilla one has a heavy weapon right arm, and the left arm close
> > combat weapon by default has a storm bolter, which can be upgraded to a
> > heavy flamer, or the whole arm switched for a missile launcher.
> True, but I did get the explanation wrong. I'm going to have to correct
> it.
Bwa-hahaaaa!!! Yet another dumb mistake... !
--
Daniel Blakemore - mylord...@yahoo.com
Scifi Emporium (fan-fiction): http://members.nbci.com/dannyscifi/
ICQ:14459824 Yahoo IM: mylordkhorne
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Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> out the "Big Guys" (Wraithlords, etc.) and moving the Tau to where they
> *belong*.
Twit. yet more mistakes?!?!
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> My mistake for wording it in a rather stupid way. I didn't mean to take
> two heavy weapons on the same Dread. I was actually suggesting two
> Dreads. I've always known SMs can only have one heavy weapon (with the
> exception of the ML) on their Dreads, and wouldn't ever suggest getting
> rid of the CCW unless someone really wanted to.
Back-pedal!!!
> That's one of the mistakes I alluded to in the post I just made. Sorry
> for the confusion, and thanks for pointing it out.
<snicker...> Now, if no-one had pointed that out, he'd have been pushing
this down the throats of all the newbies and expecting to be lauded for
it...
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
give
> > weapon specs and all that fun stuff? Or is this from your own Tau
codex?
>
> CRISIS BATTLESUITS
> I've got a bit of fixing to do with their placement in the article, but
> otherwise no problems I can see.
You do realise that GW are gonna chuck any playeting requests from you outta
the window now? :)
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> > > you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them
with a
> > > combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> > > cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> > > and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
> > What?
> > Either read the codices more carefully, or explain this better.
> > You failed in one of the two.
> I failed the latter.
More like both...
> I'll correct it in the revision. You'll see what I
> really meant when I correct it. (I'll post the revision on a page and
> give a link, so no one gripes about its length - because it *will* be
> longer).
About f**kin' time...
> Trust me, I *know* about the weapon combos for SM Dreads. I use them a
> lot, and have even use three in one game...
*yaaawn*....you've got no excuse for making mistakes then, have you? That
is, unless you're trying for some immature bragging rights...
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> > Should have guessed you'd be lurking around this guff...
> Now if someone can get Matt to show us all where he's done a *walker*
> tactics article, and not just Sentinels alone, you might have something
> of a point.
> Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a Sentinel
> article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things before replying.
Now that was a truely pathetic, mewling cesspile of a backpedal....
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
Seconded... :) Erik, your point matters not a jot.
Tim Oliver
wrote:
>Orks have two choices of walkers. First up is the Ork Dreadnought, which
>is similar in function to the Space MArine Dreadnought. However, the Ork
>Dreadnought is more useful for assaults than shooting, although it can do
>rather well with firepower. Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
>you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
>vehicles, pairing up a big shoota with a skorcher or rokkit launcher
>respectively. You can take two of the same weapon, allowing you to have a
>twin-linked weapon. This is practically useless with a skorcher,
>marginally useful with a big shoota, and extremely useful with a rokkit
>launcher (assuming you want a pure anti-vehicle Deadnought).
No, this isn't the way it works. You have four weapon slots. By
default, two are ranged weapons, and two are DCCW's. Even if both
ranged weapons are the same, you still have two weapons, not a
twin-linked weapon.
You also have the option of replacing a DCCW with a ranged weapon,
which must be the same as one of the current ones, and turns the
current one twin-linked.
You also completely forget the ork plasma cannon option, which while
expensive is actually quite good on Dreadnaughts, due to twin-linking.
An ork dread with two twin-linked ork plasma cannons costs 130pts, and
absolutely rapes marines.
The configurations I use for the ork dread are:
two RL's, two DCCW's - 80pts [cheap as dirt, draws fire, kills stuff
in h2h]
twin-linked ork plasma cannon, RL, DCCW - 115pts [flexible]
two twin-linked ork plasma cannon - 130pt [w00p]
I leave skorchas at home, since dreads are so god-damn slow. Skorchas
are for buggies, battlewagons, and characters [kombi-skorchas anyway]
>Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
>least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
>since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
>Avoid combats with groups of strong models, or enemy Dreadnoughts. Killer
>Kanz best work for protecting the flanks and launching assaults, but are
>rather weak in a screening role.
Bollocks. In my experience, cans perform sterlingly at walking up the
center absorbing fire. Take three, give them extra armor, and walk a
burna squad with a force field behind them [you should be able to
screen the burnas with 3 kans, works even better if they're in a
rhino]. Less than a 1/6 chance of destroyed per damaging hit, and you
can leave immobilised ones behind.
Also, strong enemies are the best target for kans - they don't have
enough attacks to take down weak enemies effectively, and it's the
strong enemies that your ork infantry have trouble with. So, sacrifice
the kans into the tough stuff while your sluggas waste weaker foes.
Charge terminators! You'll kill the ones in b2b.
--
Tim Oliver
tol...@ihug.co.nz
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
Erik
> > criticise Matt's article in WD when he suggested using walkers as a
screen?
> *Sentinels*. Matt only did Sentinels. And I stated that I thought
> Sentinels are a poor screen, as I did in my own article.
Can anyone hear anything other than pathetic mewling from Erik?
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
--
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> > >are ideal for accompanying infantry as they march forward, eventually
> > >reaching combat, were most walkers (but not all) excel.
> > Let's see, (currently released) walkers are: SM and CSM dreads (we'll
count
> > them as one, since they're very similar and you also counted them as
one),
> > Wraithlords, War Walkers (neither of which are mentioned properly),
> > Sentinels. That's 4, of which 2 are good at HtH, and 2 downright suck.
> > Hardly most. Also, since the 2 the aren't good at HtH are cheaper, they
> > would expectedly be more numerous, thus "most" walkers do not excel in
HtH.
> You forgot Ork Dreads and Killer Kanz. War Walkers I forgot, and
> Wraithlords I'm going to explain better (they are not technically
> walkers, but do have a place in the article - as do Talos and
> Carnifexes). Catachan Sentinels are also decent in HTH, having a S5
> power weapon.
In other words, you're admitting that your article was full of holes.
> > >This is a somewhat dangerous job for
> > >the walker; even as it protects the infantry behind it from light arms
> > >fire, it also takes the brunt of any heavy weapons.
> > Especially since Sentinels are barely more capable of taking hits than
the
> > guardsmen they'd be screening
> Well, I figured if it's an okay idea for Matt Sprange to publish in WD,
> it's fine for me. Let me quote him:
> "If the enemy attempts to annihilate the infantry squads through the use
> of heavy anti-personnel fire, the Sentinels can simply move to block
> lines of sight, shielding the squads as they will be relatively unharmed
> by such weaponry."
> Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
> Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the Tau's
> case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
> concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical Genius",
> it's good enough for me.
Twit. You really have no idea, do you?
> > >SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
> > >Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the
40K
> > >game.
> > Before Wraithlords?
> Wraithlords are *not* vehicles, and as such are *not* technically
> walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
> that don't strike last. That does not make them a Wraithlord.
An irrevelant and ill-educated distinction.
> > >Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
> > >assault role,
> > I thought with 2 powerfists I'd just sit back, happily maximising their
cost
> > by sniping with the storm bolters...
> That's your mistake to make...
Well, considering how many mistakes *you* seem to be making... :)
> > >If
> > >you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with
a
> > >combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> > >cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> > >and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
> > Erm... sure...
> Bit of a mistake, I'll correct it.
You might as well give up, Erik...practically all the article is
worthless... :)
> > >It is worth noting
> > >that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some
> > >troops, but should not be used in any assault in which it might be
> > >overwhelmed.
> > So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a unit
of
> > 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
> You can't attack a model if you're not touching it. Sentinels attack,
> kill three guys in the squad, and the squad either runs off or is tied
> up. Either way, it can be useful.
Ker-rist....and Erik claims to be good at tactics?!?!?
> > >The multilaser is only useful against light
> > >vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
> > >good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
> > >damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
> > >they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties.
> > You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign
maybe.
> With *three* multilasers firing, you will. I didn't think anyone used
> less than three.
Assuming things again? you know where that gets you...
> > >Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
> > >you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
> > >vehicles,
> > Since mixing anti-infantry and anti-armour weapons is always a good
idea...
> Thought I made it clear that it wasn't, though sometimes it *can* be
> useful.
and yet another backpedal, 'coz he don't wanna look dumb...(!)
> > >Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
> > >can kill them before they can strike back.
> > Nice standard idea that can be applied anywhere.
> But very true for walkers, which can be penetrated and destroyed by power
> fists.
Your point, dumb-ass?
> > >Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
> > >least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
> > >since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
> > Although we should mix weapons on Dreads?
> Sometimes it's worth doing it. The extra model firing at a certain
> target can make all the difference.
*sigh*....Why does Erik even bother....he's making himself look a grade A
moron with this shit...
> > >BIG GUYS
> > >Many armies include models that resemble walkers in function, but don't
> > >use the same rules. These include Eldar Wraithlords,
> > Ah, here it is.
> > Dark Eldar Talos,
> > I probably wouldn't group this with walkers considering that IT DOESN'T
HAVE
> > ANY LEGS!
> I didn't group Wraithlords with Walkers, because it *isn't* a walker!
...yet add the Talos? Kinda contradictory...
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> No, just Sentinels. Funny enough, he mentioned using them as screens,
> something I got slammed for.
My god...Erik's playing revisionist again. Matt actually described useful
tactics for them, unlike this pile of drivel you call a tactica.
> Guess that means they don't think of Matt's articles as perfect anymore.
Well, considering he can write a damned sight better than you, and that he
actually included some useful info/tactics in his article....
RT Maitreya
> "Whoa! Easy on the use of 'wankers' there, mister!" - William Shatner
You'd better tell me which episode this is from,
otherwise people will start to think you're making
them up as you go.
RTM
EVIL Craig Little
RT Maitreya <hy...@speakeasy.org> wrote in message
news:3B6C9372...@speakeasy.org...
Rob F., Evil Style
> Walkers are one of the most unique classes of vehicle in the Warhammer
> 40,000 game. Their role is almost always one of support, but they can
> just as easily be used to lead an assault, or hold a location. Walkers
> are ideal for accompanying infantry as they march forward, eventually
> reaching combat, were most walkers (but not all) excel.
>
Marching behind infantry is a good way to get your walker killed. Infantry
haven't been able to screen vehicles for a long time now.
> SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
>
> Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
> game.
Only if you don't count Wraithlords as walkers in tactical discussions.
Their armour will protect them from small arms or light heavy
> weapons (with the exception of their rear armour, which should be watched
> carefully), they have a great selection of weapons, and they're able to
> perform assaults wonderfully.
>
> Dreadnoughts are well suited to any of the tactics listed above.
> However, Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
> assault role, whether its supporting your infantry or leading its own
> assault, and Chaos Space Marine Dreadnoughts should be left a safe
> distance from the rest of your troops, making their own attacks on the
> opposing army. A special note here should be made about Space Wolves
> Venerable Dreadnoughts. Veing able to soak up a lot of fire and having
> better stats makes them a prime candidate for leading an assault. Don't
> use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
> never.
>
So why don't you just say, "Never use them as leaders."? Clearer, and more
direct.
> The way you arm your Dreadnought depends on the army you'll be facing,
> and the role you want it to perform. A Dreadnought that will see action
> against heavily armoured troops, other Dreadnoughts, or vehicles should
> use stronger heavy weapons and be armed with a powerfist. A twin-linked
> lascannon works well for this, or a plasma cannon. Against lighter troops
> or vehicles, and acting in an infantry support or anchor role, weapons
> such as the missile launcher, assault cannon, and powerfist work well. If
> you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
> combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
> cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
> and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
>
Illegal configs.
> IMPERIAL GUARD
>
> The Imperial Guard Sentinel is a light walker, lightly armed, and as such
> should probably be used in any role other than leading an assault. The
> light armour will give it problems tryingto screen your troops from fire,
> so don't do this unless it's absolutely necessary. It is worth noting
> that a Catachan Sentinel can actually perform assaults against some
> troops, but should not be used in any assault in which it might be
> overwhelmed.
>
> The weak armour of the Sentinel resigns it somewhat to a support role. It
> can also be used for a forward thrust if you're feeling particularly
> aggressive, or for flank attacks, using the extra pre-game move to get
> started on its way. While these are both risky maneuvers with your
> Sentinels, they can pay off well, possibly taking your opponent by
> surprise - especially with Catachan Sentinels, which can assault a rather
> surprised enemy and cause havoc!
>
Only if the enemy is an idiot. Who's going to put a
critical-but-weak-in-HtH unit close enough to a Sentinel, or any other form
of assault?
> The choice of weapons you have for your Sentinels is limited to three
> weapons: a multi-laser, a heavy flamer, or a lascannon. The heavy flamer
> is only good if you want to protect your troops from assaults or go on an
> assault with the Sentinel, as its low range prevents it from being useful
> in any other role. Also, the relatively low strength keeps it from
> harming most vehicles. The multilaser is only useful against light
> vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
> good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
> damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
> they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties. The
> lascannon is your best bet for going after heavy vehicles and heavy
> troops, with high strength and AP. It's also the most expensive. Use it
> for a fire support role. APCs should be your prime target, keeping your
> troops from being assaulted by enemy troops too quickly.
>
>
> ORKS
>
> Orks have two choices of walkers. First up is the Ork Dreadnought, which
> is similar in function to the Space MArine Dreadnought. However, the Ork
> Dreadnought is more useful for assaults than shooting, although it can do
> rather well with firepower. Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
> you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
> vehicles, pairing up a big shoota with a skorcher or rokkit launcher
> respectively.
Ya, that's not totally moronic...
You can take two of the same weapon, allowing you to have a
> twin-linked weapon. This is practically useless with a skorcher,
> marginally useful with a big shoota, and extremely useful with a rokkit
> launcher (assuming you want a pure anti-vehicle Deadnought).
>
> Ork Dreadnoughts, and to a certain extent the Killer Kanz, work rather
> well in an assault. However, don't try to take either of them against a
> character or another Dreadnought. The low Initiative, as well as the
> Killer Kanz' light armour, will make your walkers quite vulnerable.
By advising to avoid characters, you're missing the key point to why any
walker is good in HtH. Walkers are immune to meltabombs as long as they
aren't stunned or immobilized. Most characters don't use powerfists, and
therefore completely lack the ability to damage a walker. The correct
advice is to avoid high-strength models and monsterous creatures.
> Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
> can kill them before they can strike back. Assaulting tanks is the best
> way to take them out in an Ork army, and their walkers excel at the job.
>
> Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
> least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
> since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
> Avoid combats with groups of strong models, or enemy Dreadnoughts. Killer
> Kanz best work for protecting the flanks and launching assaults, but are
> rather weak in a screening role.
> BIG GUYS
>
> Many armies include models that resemble walkers in function, but don't
> use the same rules. These include Eldar Wraithlords, Dark Eldar Talos,
> Greater Daemons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures, etc. Use them as you would
> a walker, but remember that they are more vulnerable to small arms and
> heavy weapons fire (the exception being the Eldar Wraithlord) and can
> take a few more hits generally. These "Big Guys" can be grouped into two
> classes: Assault and Combined Attack.
>
> The Assault category of "Big Guys" includes those models whose sole role
> is to fight in hand to hand combat. These models should be used to head
> your assaults on enemy units and vehicles, being able to do massive
> damage up close. Don't bother holding them back, because unlike walkers
> these models are not armed with long ranged heavy weapons.
>
Only a greater daemon fits that description. Hardly worthy of being called
a sub-category.
> The Combined Attack category includes models that are great in an assault
> but also have some form of ranged weaponry - much like true walkers. They
> work in any role you'd assign to a walker, excelling at none. It's
> usually best to get the "Big Guys" into the thick of it, as they're a bit
> vulnerable to ranged attacks. Use them to support your infantry or watch
> the flanks as you move forward, then assault the opposing army as soon as
> you're in range.
I.e., "Try whatever you like, it doesn't make a difference"? That's
worthless advice.
RF
Rob F., Evil Style
> You forgot Ork Dreads and Killer Kanz. War Walkers I forgot, and
> Wraithlords I'm going to explain better (they are not technically
> walkers, but do have a place in the article - as do Talos and
> > >SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
> > >
> > >Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the
40K
> > >game.
> >
> > Before Wraithlords?
>
> Wraithlords are *not* vehicles, and as such are *not* technically
> walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
> that don't strike last.
So... they merit discussion in a walker tactica, as long as you're not
trying to make a nice-sounding statement about other walkers? No matter how
misleading?
> That does not make them a Wraithlord.
>
Won't even bother commenting on this one.
> > >Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
> > >assault role,
> >
> > I thought with 2 powerfists I'd just sit back, happily maximising their
cost
> > by sniping with the storm bolters...
>
> That's your mistake to make...
>
And there goes Erik showing off how his reading comprehension skills earned
him that 780+ SAT Verbal score...
RF
Evil_is_fun_incrdbil
No, the writer of the following words is the stupid ones.
> If
>you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
>combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
>cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
>and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
He's trying to backpedal and claim he didn't mean to say that.
Notice how it seems odly like Erik really hasn't played that often
since 2e from time to time?
incrdbil
Marshall Dragoo
Oh, BTW, how did you fare at the Fantasy GT, Mr. Sprange??? I did like
your article on the Ravenwing a few WD's back.
Gents, I think Setzer got his CSM and SM dreads weapons options
confused, along with the rest of his miserable excuse for a life.
Oh Erik, next time you wanna post a Tactica article here, don't.
Here's a quarter, call someone who'll listen to you lame ass Tactica
articles
And oh, BTW, you're not, nor will you ever be a 'regular'.
I think Setzer likes pulling our chains with all the crap he spews on
RGMW.
Marshall Dragoo
RGMW evil regular, bearer of Green Hat #365, loyal convert of the CoJ,
and terrain god for my local gaming group.
P.S. I happen to like dreads and will use'em alot. 'Nuff said.
The_Grand_Poobah_of_Evil
wrote:
>You forgot Ork Dreads and Killer Kanz. War Walkers I forgot, and
>Wraithlords I'm going to explain better (they are not technically
>walkers, but do have a place in the article - as do Talos and
>Carnifexes). Catachan Sentinels are also decent in HTH, having a S5
>power weapon.
Really. Maybe you meant a Str 5 Force weapon, since you used to think
force weapons were not power weapons. Please enlighten us on where
these power weapon armed sentinels are coming from. Don't get
confused when looking at Army builder, and mistake the power lifter
for the Deathworld Sentinel. (you know, the power lifter that doesn't
have any other weapon, I3, WS 3, A 2, and the same armor for 53
points?
Perhaps actually reading the rules for each type of Walker before
writing an article about it would help, pig-fucker.
>
>
>Well, I figured if it's an okay idea for Matt Sprange to publish in WD,
>it's fine for me. Let me quote him:
>
>"If the enemy attempts to annihilate the infantry squads through the use
>of heavy anti-personnel fire, the Sentinels can simply move to block
>lines of sight, shielding the squads as they will be relatively unharmed
>by such weaponry."
>
>Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
>Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the Tau's
>case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
>concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical Genius",
>it's good enough for me.
anti-personnel fire. Tell me Erik, how many bolter shots on average
will it take to kill a Squad of IG, and how many to destroy a
Sentinel? (thenb work out the math for sentinel considered hull down
then try thi in numbers of shootas. Now, for a real insight, try
splinter rifles.
>
>> >SPACE MARINES AND CHAOS SPACE MARINES
>> >
>> >Space Marine Dreadnoughts are, in my opinion, the best walkers in the 40K
>> >game.
>>
>> Before Wraithlords?
>
>Wraithlords are *not* vehicles, and as such are *not* technically
>walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
>that don't strike last. That does not make them a Wraithlord.
Walker you mean. Retain Coherency. they are ther closest thing to an
Eldar "Walker", so you may as well consider them. However, seeing your
inaccuracy about sentinels, and your screw up on CSM and SM dreads
with multiple heavy weapons, it's probably best for you to talk about
as few units as possible in an article.
>
>> >Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnoughts are better suited for an
>> >assault role,
>>
>> I thought with 2 powerfists I'd just sit back, happily maximising their cost
>> by sniping with the storm bolters...
>
>That's your mistake to make...
Poor little Floridiot. He's making light of the fact that anyone who
can read the statline will realize that.
>
>> >If
>> >you want your Dreadnought to perform double duty, you can arm them with a
>> >combination of light and heavy weapons - ie, lascannons and assault
>> >cannon for your Space Marine Dreadnought, or twin linked heavy bolters
>> >and a heavy plasma cannon for a Chaos Space Marine Dreadnought.
>>
>> Erm... sure...
>
>Bit of a mistake, I'll correct it.
Translation "Ah, now that my complete lack of knowledge has been
ridiculed again, I'll wait for others to tell me what's wrong so I
know how to change it".
>> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a unit of
>> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG squads!
>
>You can't attack a model if you're not touching it. Sentinels attack,
>kill three guys in the squad, and the squad either runs off or is tied
>up. Either way, it can be useful.
BWAHAHAHAHA. The Sentinels atatck and kill three guys? Perhaps if
they atatck other IG units, DE or Eldar units with no characters with
nasty weapons. Point out what units not to do this too. (any unit
with strengths of 4 or higher)
Charging into S 3 units with no character upgrades on hth weapons is
one of the few good things you can do, granted, but that doesn't
happen very often.
>
>> >The multilaser is only useful against light
>> >vehicles and lightly armoured troops, but its range can give you some
>> >good use in the support role. The multiple shots will do some nasty
>> >damage to light troops, and against heavier troops (ie Space Marines),
>> >they'll give you a chance of getting at least one or two casualties.
>>
>> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per campaign maybe.
>
>With *three* multilasers firing, you will. I didn't think anyone used
>less than three.
9 Multilaser shots should average 1.27 Marien Kills per turn. Great
investment of points.
>
>> >Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
>> >you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
>> >vehicles,
>>
>> Since mixing anti-infantry and anti-armour weapons is always a good idea...
>
>Thought I made it clear that it wasn't, though sometimes it *can* be
>useful.
you've failed tio make anything clear. For you, that is good, as it
always leaves you room to backpedal
>
>> >Beware of any model armed with a power fist, unless you're certain you
>> >can kill them before they can strike back.
>>
>> Nice standard idea that can be applied anywhere.
>
>But very true for walkers, which can be penetrated and destroyed by power
>fists.
Yeesh, how long does it take things to seep into this childs head?
>
>
>They have wounds, meaning they aren't able to be destroyed with one shot.
>However, they're vulnerable to light weapons (the Carnifex and Greater
>Daemons especially).
Nice to avoid mentioning Tyrant Guard, or IC rules for Demons.
thanks for humiliating yourself yet again Erik.
incrdbil
________
SEAL Wannabe(TM) is a trademark of Thomas Setzer. Used whether the fucking cowardly cocksucking re-4
cunt likes it or not.
>>Are all Jacksonville players as stupid as you and your playgroup? How do
>>you all manage to miss the fact that force weapons are still power weapons.
>
>"Roll to hit, to wound, and to save as normal."
>Page 34, Codex: Space Marines.
>
>It does not say anywhere in the codex that it's a force weapon. Only
>the rulebook says that, and it's changed.
>
>Don't call someone stupid without checking the codex.
>-Erik
"They are treated as a POWER WEAPON, but can unleash
a psychic attack that can kill an opponent outright.
Roll to hit, wound and to save as normal".
Erik, YOU'RE FUCKING STUPID.
The above statement is perfectly acceptable to Erik Setzer by his own declared standards.
>Just goes to show how stupid people can be when they're desparate to
>insult someone.
>Oh, you are a troll. The worst trolls can never see that they are a
>troll.
>When you can't even distinguish the truth from your own lies, then it's
>obvious you're a troll. Whether you can see it or not matters little.
>-Erik
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /" /_\
('( ' ' _~/' ')
\ ' /
'\' \ _.7'
\
\ \
The_Grand_Poobah_of_Evil
<alt...@clara.net> wrote:
>> That's right. He's had to crap out a write best selling D&D material
>> instead. poor bastard.
>
>Oh, the humanity. Erik chased me right out of this hobby with his forth
>right thinking and expert knowledge of battle tactics.
>
It's so depressing, it makes me want to go revise a prestige class or
two.
incrdbil
Erik Setzer
says...
> > Whoops, just spotted some mistakes I've got to correct. Namely leaving
> > out the "Big Guys" (Wraithlords, etc.) and moving the Tau to where they
> > *belong*.
>
> Where? The bin?
Come on, the Tau aren't *that* bad.
No, I meant the "big guys" section. They use T & W, not armour ratings.
-Erik
--
Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Astral Projections
http://www.geocities.com/kaptingavrin
Erik Setzer
says...
> > Now if someone can get Matt to show us all where he's done a *walker*
> > tactics article, and not just Sentinels alone, you might have something
> > of a point.
>
> It may not be a point to you, but that alters it not a jot.
>
> > Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a Sentinel
> > article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things before replying.
>
> Well, that was guff. Good quality NARPing though.
Well, you guys keep harping on Matt saying something about screening with
walkers and me disagreeing with it. He only said that in an article
about Sentinels, and I disagreed with that idea - and I still do. Now,
Dreadnoughts *can* be used for screening. But then, I still can't figure
out why anyone would use them for that.
Erik Setzer
says...
> > No, just Sentinels. Funny enough, he mentioned using them as screens,
> > something I got slammed for.
>
> I seem to recall it was *you* who did the slamming.
I meant earlier in this thread. And yes, I do disagree with the idea.
> > Guess that means they don't think of Matt's articles as perfect anymore.
>
> That's right. He's had to crap out a write best selling D&D material
> instead. poor bastard.
Is that why the covers feel all strange?
Erik Setzer
kvh...@telusplanet.net says...
> > Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
> > Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the Tau's
> > case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
> > concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical Genius",
> > it's good enough for me.
>
> My Dark Eldar reacted with glee when told their splinter rifle was now S4.
>
> Well, as much glee as Dark Eldar can muster: I think they raped a few fields
> and pillaged a few women in celebration.
Whoops, sorry. I keep forgetting that their basic weapon is a splinter
*rifle*, not a splinter cannon. Hard to remember with our resident DE
players using so many ****ing splinter cannons!
Still, the s-cannons will make a mess out of the Sentinels anyway, and
I'm certain no Dark Eldar player is without at least a few.
Erik Setzer
says...
> >Orks have two choices of walkers. First up is the Ork Dreadnought, which
> >is similar in function to the Space MArine Dreadnought. However, the Ork
> >Dreadnought is more useful for assaults than shooting, although it can do
> >rather well with firepower. Being able to take two heavy weapons allows
> >you to arm your Dreadnought for anti-infantry or anti-infantry and
> >vehicles, pairing up a big shoota with a skorcher or rokkit launcher
> >respectively. You can take two of the same weapon, allowing you to have a
> >twin-linked weapon. This is practically useless with a skorcher,
> >marginally useful with a big shoota, and extremely useful with a rokkit
> >launcher (assuming you want a pure anti-vehicle Deadnought).
>
> No, this isn't the way it works. You have four weapon slots. By
> default, two are ranged weapons, and two are DCCW's. Even if both
> ranged weapons are the same, you still have two weapons, not a
> twin-linked weapon.
>
> You also have the option of replacing a DCCW with a ranged weapon,
> which must be the same as one of the current ones, and turns the
> current one twin-linked.
Well, I was basing it on one of the GW employees saying it becomes T-L
even if you have both normal heavy weapon slots taken up by the same
weapon. I'll check up on it again.
> You also completely forget the ork plasma cannon option, which while
> expensive is actually quite good on Dreadnaughts, due to twin-linking.
> An ork dread with two twin-linked ork plasma cannons costs 130pts, and
> absolutely rapes marines.
Ah, yes, thanks for reminding me. I hate that thing because of the
chance it has of destroying the Dread.
> The configurations I use for the ork dread are:
> two RL's, two DCCW's - 80pts [cheap as dirt, draws fire, kills stuff
> in h2h]
> twin-linked ork plasma cannon, RL, DCCW - 115pts [flexible]
> two twin-linked ork plasma cannon - 130pt [w00p]
>
> I leave skorchas at home, since dreads are so god-damn slow. Skorchas
> are for buggies, battlewagons, and characters [kombi-skorchas anyway]
I usually use a BS & RL, but occasionally pair a BS & Sk, especially
against 'Nids.
> >Killer Kanz are purchased in groups of 1 to 3. I recommend getting at
> >least two to a group. Arm the entire mob with the same heavy weapon,
> >since you're limited to firing at the same target with each of them.
> >Avoid combats with groups of strong models, or enemy Dreadnoughts. Killer
> >Kanz best work for protecting the flanks and launching assaults, but are
> >rather weak in a screening role.
>
> Bollocks. In my experience, cans perform sterlingly at walking up the
> center absorbing fire. Take three, give them extra armor, and walk a
> burna squad with a force field behind them [you should be able to
> screen the burnas with 3 kans, works even better if they're in a
> rhino]. Less than a 1/6 chance of destroyed per damaging hit, and you
> can leave immobilised ones behind.
If you have a Mek, you can do this. I'm just trying to generalize here.
Without that Mek, they can't soak up much fire, because they tend to
attract a lot. And trust me, a multilaser may not do much to Marines,
but it's pretty darned useful against killer kanz. And then there's all
the other various "light" heavy weapons that can harm them...
> Also, strong enemies are the best target for kans - they don't have
> enough attacks to take down weak enemies effectively, and it's the
> strong enemies that your ork infantry have trouble with. So, sacrifice
> the kans into the tough stuff while your sluggas waste weaker foes.
> Charge terminators! You'll kill the ones in b2b.
Termies? Bah. I charge them with Nobz and Slugga Boyz. I strike first
with plenty of attacks, and they only get a 4+ save. Pretty good, IMHO,
and it frees up the KKs to go after vehicles.
Erik Setzer
nightwingS...@954access.net says...
> > Wraithlords are *not* vehicles, and as such are *not* technically
> > walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
> > that don't strike last.
>
> So... they merit discussion in a walker tactica, as long as you're not
> trying to make a nice-sounding statement about other walkers? No matter how
> misleading?
I'll get into Wraithlords more with a revision. However, they are *not*
walkers. I should change the article name too, to suggest that it covers
walkers and non-walkers.
> > That's your mistake to make...
>
> And there goes Erik showing off how his reading comprehension skills earned
> him that 780+ SAT Verbal score...
You were being sarcastic, I chose to not let it get to me. So what? I
*could* have flamed you for your sarcasm, but where would that have
gotten anyone?
Qrab
incr...@nospam.flinthills.com (The_Grand_Poobah_of_Evil) wrote:
SEAL Wannabe(TM) is a trademark of Thomas Setzer. Used whether the fucking cowardly cocksucking re-4
cunt likes it or not.
<snip>
/'_/)
,/_ /
/ /
/'_'/' '/'__'7,
/'/ / / /" /_\
('( ' ' _~/' ')
\ ' /
'\' \ _.7'
\
\ \
Hey Inc, you're ASCII finger is kinda screwy, why don't you try one of these:
.###,
.###$
.'"$$
, ;$$
; ;O$
;;;$$;
; $$$$$
.,oo ';;$$i
;;;$$ ;;;$$;,;$$,
;;;$$ ;;;$$; ;;$$'$$
;',;;$$ ;;;$$$ ;;$$ ;;$
; ;;;$$ ;;$$$$ ;;$$$ ;;$
; ;o$$;;;$$$$$ ;;;$$$;;;$
; ;;o$$$;;$$$$$;;;$$$$;;;$$
; ;;oo$O;;;$$$;;;;$$;;;$$$
; oooooooo$$$$OO$$$OO$$$'
'; ooooooo$$$$oo$$$oo$$$
; oooooo$$$$o$$$$o$$$
; oooooo$$$o$$$o$$$
; ooooo$$$$$$$$$$
; oooo$$$$$$$$$
; oo$$$$$$$$$$$$
unknown
or,
_ FUCK YOU _
|_| |_|
| | /^^^\ | |
_| |_ (| "o" |) _| |_
_| | | | _ (_---_) _ | | | |_
| | | | |' | _| |_ | `| | | | |
| | / \ | |
\ / / /(. .)\ \ \ /
\ / / / | . | \ \ \ /
\ \/ / ||Y|| \ \/ /
\__/ || || \__/
() ()
|| ||
ooO Ooo unknown
or,
_
/_\
I~I
_ I I
//\ I I
/~ / (=) _
(= /~\I I/~\ _
| II II II I/~\
| II II II II I
( II II II II I
\ ^ ^ ^ ^/
\ /
\ I
I I unknown
I I
I I
or,
_
| |
| |
|_|
_| |_
| |~|_|_
: | | |_|
( --\`-' |
/ _ \ `-'
| `-' )
\ _ ' )'
| V |
| : |
unknown
Or even all of them, cuz let's face, he deserves them all.
Be seeing you-
Qrab
smithdoerr
> In article <Op_a7.28066$b_3.2...@news0.telusplanet.net>,
> kvh...@telusplanet.net says...
>
> > > Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
> > > Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the
Tau's
> > > case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
> > > concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical
Genius",
> > > it's good enough for me.
> >
> > My Dark Eldar reacted with glee when told their splinter rifle was now
S4.
> >
> > Well, as much glee as Dark Eldar can muster: I think they raped a few
fields
> > and pillaged a few women in celebration.
>
> Whoops, sorry. I keep forgetting that their basic weapon is a splinter
> *rifle*, not a splinter cannon. Hard to remember with our resident DE
> players using so many ****ing splinter cannons!
>
> Still, the s-cannons will make a mess out of the Sentinels anyway, and
> I'm certain no Dark Eldar player is without at least a few.
On average, the DE player will need to fire 2 splinter cannons just to score
1 glancing hit. Hardly what I would call "making a mess of." OTOH, those
same 2 splinter cannons will on average kill over 1/3rd of an IG squad.
--
- smithdoerr
Download the free Warhammer 40k-Wound Calculator ver1.01 at:
http://www.geocities.com/smithdoerr/40k/WoundCalculator.html
Blue Raja
>
>"Blue Raja" <the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3b6c1a10$0$20965$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
>> The Old & EVIL Bear wrote in message
><9kh41p$bsp$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>> >
>> >"Blue Raja" <the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
>> >news:3b6c089b$0$20923$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
>> >> RT Maitreya wrote in message <3B6C01F4...@speakeasy.org>...
>> >> >Blue Raja wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> So, given a squad of three sentinels, they should try and assault a
>> >unit
>> >> of
>> >> >> 3 or less models of S3? Watch out half-dead understrength IG
>squads!
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> About time I made one ;o)
>> >>
>> >> >> You'll get one or two SM casulties using a multilaser? Per
campaign
>> >> maybe.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> No way, I bet I can beat any army with my Orks with only big shootas.
>> >>
>> >> Actually I was going to parody the whole post as "Tactica Wankers" or
>> >> "Craptica Wankers", but I couldn't be bothered typing the whole thing.
>> >
>> >"Whoa! Easy on the use of 'wankers' there, mister!" - William Shatner
>>
>> Report to Big Al for a full workover, mister.
>
>What I mean is don't go using a perfectly good and useful word/act on Erik.
Ah, good point.
--
The Blue Raja
"If anything, I think the NG would collectively describe you as "the village
idiot", rather than a "regular"." - John Hwang to Erik
Your local friendly [Tag Nazi]
RGMW FAQ - I LEIK MILK!
http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
The Old & EVIL Bear
I think it was from "Who are you calling fatty, Bones?" (series 2)
--
The Old & EVIL Bear (CoJ Hat #3 - the *real* one)
Come to Room 301 in the Inner Sanctum (but knock first)
This post has been approved by Paul Dolphin
The Old & EVIL Bear
> kvh...@telusplanet.net says...
>
> > > Yeah, we all know how many armies include weapons that can't harm
> > > Sentinels... one. The IG. Everyone else has basic S4 (S5 in the
Tau's
> > > case) weapons, all of which can harm Sentinels, especially in large
> > > concentrations. If it's good enough for our resident "Tactical
Genius",
> > > it's good enough for me.
> >
> > My Dark Eldar reacted with glee when told their splinter rifle was now
S4.
> >
> > Well, as much glee as Dark Eldar can muster: I think they raped a few
fields
> > and pillaged a few women in celebration.
>
> Whoops, sorry. I keep forgetting that their basic weapon is a splinter
> *rifle*, not a splinter cannon. Hard to remember with our resident DE
> players using so many ****ing splinter cannons!
Yes, the influence of other people's army lists can be debilitating.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> In article <9ki5hr$4jqbf$1...@ID-89564.news.dfncis.de>,
> nightwingS...@954access.net says...
>
> > > Wraithlords are *not* vehicles, and as such are *not* technically
> > > walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
> > > that don't strike last.
> >
> > So... they merit discussion in a walker tactica, as long as you're not
> > trying to make a nice-sounding statement about other walkers? No matter
how
> > misleading?
>
> I'll get into Wraithlords more with a revision.
Fuck me, I can hardly wait.
However, they are *not*
> walkers. I should change the article name too, to suggest that it covers
> walkers and non-walkers.
What are they then?
The Old & EVIL Bear
> > instead. poor bastard.
>
> right thinking and expert knowledge of battle tactics.
>
It must have been hell on earth. You ought to let Alex have Erik's walker
tactics. That might help him improve his meagre generalship skills...
The Old & EVIL Bear
"Marshall Dragoo" <m_dr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:23c8d8fd.01080...@posting.google.com...
> "Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:<xH_a7.157647$cc1.8...@nnrp3.clara.net>...
> > > That's right. He's had to crap out a write best selling D&D material
> > > instead. poor bastard.
> >
> > Oh, the humanity. Erik chased me right out of this hobby with his forth
> > right thinking and expert knowledge of battle tactics.
> >
> > I don't know how I coped at the Fantasy GT. . .
> >
> > Matthew
>
> Oh, BTW, how did you fare at the Fantasy GT, Mr. Sprange??? I did like
> your article on the Ravenwing a few WD's back.
>
> Gents, I think Setzer got his CSM and SM dreads weapons options
> confused, along with the rest of his miserable excuse for a life.
>
> Oh Erik, next time you wanna post a Tactica article here, don't.
> Here's a quarter, call someone who'll listen to you lame ass Tactica
> articles
> And oh, BTW, you're not, nor will you ever be a 'regular'.
>
> I think Setzer likes pulling our chains with all the crap he spews on
> RGMW.
This undoubtedly was another high end NARP. We have to remember that this is
Erik's raison d'etre, and as such he really is the best going. Twats like
Crappy-X and Harbinger just can't touch him.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> In article <9khjic$ng4$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, ki...@enterprise.com
> says...
>
> > > No, just Sentinels. Funny enough, he mentioned using them as screens,
> > > something I got slammed for.
> >
> > I seem to recall it was *you* who did the slamming.
>
> I meant earlier in this thread. And yes, I do disagree with the idea.
>
> > > Guess that means they don't think of Matt's articles as perfect
anymore.
> >
> > That's right. He's had to crap out a write best selling D&D material
> > instead. poor bastard.
>
> Is that why the covers feel all strange?
The only problem with engaging you in verbal fencing is that you invariably
show up without a weapon.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> Termies? Bah. I charge them with Nobz and Slugga Boyz. I strike first
> with plenty of attacks, and they only get a 4+ save. Pretty good, IMHO,
> and it frees up the KKs to go after vehicles.
And what happens if they charge you? Or is that an unfeasible possibility?
Matthew Sprange
> your article on the Ravenwing a few WD's back.
Not too bad and thank you.
Matthew
estarriol
sites and whats posted elsewhere and distilled it with 1 part
information, 3 parts waffle and 5 parts bullshit and then springled
buzzwords around as distraction, although the recipe may be out, there
may be less info in the mix.....
--
Slightly bad estarriol
remove clothes to email
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing there's
You don't understand the situation!
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> > > walkers. They can fire two weapons while moving and have power fists
> > > that don't strike last.
> > So... they merit discussion in a walker tactica, as long as you're not
> > trying to make a nice-sounding statement about other walkers? No matter
how
> > misleading?
> I'll get into Wraithlords more with a revision. However, they are *not*
> walkers.
Then neither are Talos.. :)
> I should change the article name too, to suggest that it covers
> walkers and non-walkers.
You should drop the article altogether...
> > > That's your mistake to make...
> > And there goes Erik showing off how his reading comprehension skills
earned
> > him that 780+ SAT Verbal score...
> You were being sarcastic, I chose to not let it get to me. So what? I
> *could* have flamed you for your sarcasm, but where would that have
> gotten anyone?
Twit.
> Tag Nazi (Heil RGMW!)
> RGMW Regular - And Proud of It!
Still trying to feel wanted? :)
--
Daniel Blakemore - mylord...@yahoo.com
Scifi Emporium (fan-fiction): http://members.nbci.com/dannyscifi/
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Grand Master of Evil
> > No, this isn't the way it works. You have four weapon slots. By
> > default, two are ranged weapons, and two are DCCW's. Even if both
> > ranged weapons are the same, you still have two weapons, not a
> > twin-linked weapon.
> >
> > You also have the option of replacing a DCCW with a ranged weapon,
> > which must be the same as one of the current ones, and turns the
> > current one twin-linked.
>
> Well, I was basing it on one of the GW employees saying it becomes T-L
> even if you have both normal heavy weapon slots taken up by the same
> weapon. I'll check up on it again.
>
Amazing. You don't even know the codex for your _main army_, yet you still
wonder why everyone says you have no credibility...
RF
John Hwang
>Here's something I just wrote up.
Obviously. If it were anyone else, they'd be ashamed to claim authorship.
OTOH, if it were anyone else, we'd have to accept it as yet another troll...
>Let me know what you think.
Crap as usual. And clearly incomplete, missing the Eldar War Walker entirely,
while giving short shrift to the Wraithlord and Talos.
>This is for beginners mainly, as well as veterans (after all,
> beginners need tactics more than veterans!).
>-Erik
[SNIP useless crap]
Nothing added that the average pre-teen can't figure out. Nothing tactically
clever. But at least you're targeting the newbies who don't know any better.
I'll not bother with the picking apart the details -- with 85+ replies already,
I suspect all of the low-hanging fruit has already been taken.
I note that you attempt to "break cover" on the Tau. Which is pretty
meaningless without the actual book present to examine within overall army
context.
--- John Hwang "J_H...@my-deja.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
John Hwang
>>Survey says......*buzzer*. You get ONE of the *snip*
>
>not quite. He mentions "light and heavy" weapons.
[SNIP]
Yes. But the Village Idiot also gives two "examples" of what he means, each
using two heavy weapons in illegal combination, neither using ML, as allowed in
the SM and CSM lists.
BTW, not being War Machines, mixing weapons like that is also foolish -- at
least one of the two heavy weapons will be wasted regardless of target.
John Hwang
Yeah, like the entire freakin' thing...
John Hwang
[SNIP]
>Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a
>Sentinel article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things
>before replying.
Anyone else see the irony here?
John Hwang
>Wankers" or "Craptica Wankers", but I couldn't be
> bothered typing the whole thing.
Cut-and-paste, my friend, cut-and-paste...
John Hwang
>Erik Setzer <er...@mediaone.net> wrote
>> A special note here should be made about Space Wolves
>> Venerable Dreadnoughts. Veing able to soak up a lot of fire and having
>> better stats makes them a prime candidate for leading an assault. Don't
>> use them as army leaders unless you absolutely must, which should be
>> never.
>
>So why don't you just say, "Never use them as leaders."? Clearer, and more
>direct.
And still wrong. In a small game of, say, 500 pts in which the SW are limited
to a single HQ, taking Venerable Dread here isn't a bad call, leaving points
for lots of other stuff.
The_Grand_Poobah_of_Evil
wrote:
>Erik Setzer er...@mediaone.net
>[SNIP]
>>Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a
>>Sentinel article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things
>>before replying.
>
>Anyone else see the irony here?
>
See it? It's beating me over the head with an Irony Skillet :)
incrdbil
Evil Daniel "Keep what in my pants?" Blakemore
> >Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a
> >Sentinel article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things
> >before replying.
> Anyone else see the irony here?
Everybody but Erik, I would guess.. :)
The_Grand_Poobah_of_Evil
wrote:
>>
>> No, this isn't the way it works. You have four weapon slots. By
>> default, two are ranged weapons, and two are DCCW's. Even if both
>> ranged weapons are the same, you still have two weapons, not a
>> twin-linked weapon.
>>
>Well, I was basing it on one of the GW employees saying it becomes T-L
>even if you have both normal heavy weapon slots taken up by the same
>weapon. I'll check up on it again.
In other words, Erik is too stupid to ead the Codex of his army of
choice--yet considers himself an expert on every army in the game.
>
>> You also completely forget the ork plasma cannon option, which while
>> expensive is actually quite good on Dreadnaughts, due to twin-linking.
>> An ork dread with two twin-linked ork plasma cannons costs 130pts, and
>> absolutely rapes marines.
>
>Ah, yes, thanks for reminding me. I hate that thing because of the
>chance it has of destroying the Dread.
Here Erik scrambles to find a reason to blow off the option he
completely forgot about to to hsi basic stupidity and inability to pay
40k.
>
>>
>> Bollocks. In my experience, cans perform sterlingly at walking up the
>> center absorbing fire. Take three, give them extra armor, and walk a
>> burna squad with a force field behind them [you should be able to
>> screen the burnas with 3 kans, works even better if they're in a
>> rhino]. Less than a 1/6 chance of destroyed per damaging hit, and you
>> can leave immobilised ones behind.
>
>If you have a Mek, you can do this. I'm just trying to generalize here.
In other words, trying not to mention somethign to bolster Walkers
from the list supposedly of your choice?
And trust me, a multilaser may not do much to Marines,
>but it's pretty darned useful against killer kanz.
Yep--with 2/3's of a multilasers hits having no effect, that's
'effective' in the Setzer dictionary. He must be terrified of weapons
that can only penetrate 1/6th of the time fired by an army with BS of
3 as the norm.
And then there's all
>the other various "light" heavy weapons that can harm them...
Let's see, heavy olters, which fair worse..Grenade Launchers, which
have the same chance as the above mentyioned multi-laser..so you live
in fear of autocannons taken in large numbers?
>
>> Also, strong enemies are the best target for kans - they don't have
>> enough attacks to take down weak enemies effectively, and it's the
>> strong enemies that your ork infantry have trouble with. So, sacrifice
>> the kans into the tough stuff while your sluggas waste weaker foes.
>> Charge terminators! You'll kill the ones in b2b.
>
>Termies? Bah. I charge them with Nobz and Slugga Boyz.
Since Erik never gets charged.....
incrdbil
-= EVIL JIMI =-
limited
> to a single HQ, taking Venerable Dread here isn't a bad call, leaving
points
> for lots of other stuff.
Yup - my gaming group plays a lot of small battles (upto 1k points) and the
SW players (including me) nearly always take a Ven dread in those games.
Jimi
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The Old & EVIL Bear
"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message
news:20010805104422...@ng-ba1.news.cs.com...
> Erik Setzer er...@mediaone.net
> >Whoops, just spotted some mistakes I've got to correct.
>
> Yeah, like the entire freakin' thing...
Now now, JH...be kind. This was, after all, only Erik's umpteenth attempt to
write something coherent. He just needs more time is all.
The Old & EVIL Bear
> Erik Setzer er...@mediaone.net
> [SNIP]
> >Otherwise, Matt just looked stupid for not realizing he did a
> >Sentinel article and I'm covering walkers. He should read things
> >before replying.
>
> Anyone else see the irony here?
Oh yes.
Matthew Sprange
the
> SW players (including me) nearly always take a Ven dread in those games.
This coming from the guy who stuffs Thunderhawks with 30 Wolf Guard, all
armed with Plasma Pistols and Power Weapons :)
Matthew, who knows Dark Angels will always be the best. . .
P.S, about the BFGs we run, Jimi. I had a thought. How about this time we
have an RPG BFG? We could get 2 GM's, 2 groups and run a competitive
adventure for a day or two, between the player's groups? What do you think?
If anyone else is reading this and would like to get involved, give me a
shout!