WFB and 40k How much have they changed since ~2003-04
Insane Ranter
are we on? How much have things changed since about 2003-04. Would one
need to re buy everything again?:
Playa
Hey,
On Jun 28, 10:26 pm, Insane Ranter <log...@gmail.com> wrote:
> what versions are we on?
FB7 and 40k5.
> How much have things changed since about 2003-04
The differences are not too great in the Army Books/ Codecies.
But, the core game mechanics will take some getting used to.
> Would one need to re buy everything again?
The Chaos Legions were eaten by Squats in the Gavdex.
So, maybe not *everything*.
Refs:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&aId=3400013
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&aId=3000002
Playa
Insane Ranter
> Hey,
>
> On Jun 28, 10:26 pm, Insane Ranter <log...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > what versions are we on?
>
> FB7 and 40k5.
>
> > How much have things changed since about 2003-04
>
> The differences are not too great in the Army Books/ Codecies.
> But, the core game mechanics will take some getting used to.
>
> > Would one need to re buy everything again?
>
> The Chaos Legions were eaten by Squats in the Gavdex.
> So, maybe not *everything*.
> Refs:
>
>
> http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=&aId...
>
> Playa
thankie
Christ...@web.de
>
> The differences are not too great in the Army Books/ Codecies.
> But, the core game mechanics will take some getting used to.
>
edition, but the Armybooks are now more like herohammer 4th edition
was.
Christof
Insane Ranter
So WFB is back to he who has the biggest bad ass characters wins and
less about what your rank and file are doing?
Christ...@web.de
Depends, Dark Elves are allowed more spell dice than you can hold with
three hands. In 40k terms it's like every farseer got a soulgem for
free. High Elves all have first strike today, in 40k terms every eldar
gets a free banshee mask... it's just strange things like that. It's
more about elite units and characters again, but not entirely like 4th
edition. Special characters part of the basic army lists. Have a look
at just 2-3 armybooks and you will see what the changes are.
Christof
pbo...@aol.com
Hmm, I've pretty much dropped WFB (too busy painting Dire Avengers),
but this doesn't tempt me to give it another look.
As someone in Ranter's position recently returned to 40k, though, I've
noticed quite a few major changes in the way armies play even though
the army books themselves are little different. The new objective
rules, emphasising troops who can reach objectives quickly and stay
there, and the fact that deep strike and infiltrate (complete with the
new outflank rule) are now standard rules in all missions, games seem
to be much more mobile. I've watched games where people have actually
reembarked on transports during the game and used them as, well,
transports. Eldar army lists I've looked at are almost entirely
mechanised, something you'd never see in past editions - my own new
formulation contains three transported squads, two Scorpion squads
(which can outflank) and my trusty Warp Spiders (who are fast and who
can deep strike should they need to), with only a single static
Defender squad for old time's sake.
Phil
Christ...@web.de
> On 1 July, 12:27, Christof_B...@web.de wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 1 Jul., 03:00, Insane Ranter <log...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 30, 7:27 am, Christof_B...@web.de wrote:
>
> > > > > > How much have things changed since about 2003-04
>
> > > > > The differences are not too great in the Army Books/ Codecies.
> > > > > But, the core game mechanics will take some getting used to.
>
> > > > This may be true for 40k, but not for WFB. FB7 is much like 6th
> > > > edition, but the Armybooks are now more like herohammer 4th edition
> > > > was.
>
> > > > Christof
>
> > > So WFB is back to he who has the biggest bad ass characters wins and
> > > less about what your rank and file are doing?
>
> > Depends, Dark Elves are allowed more spell dice than you can hold with
> > three hands. In 40k terms it's like every farseer got a soulgem for
> > free. High Elves all have first strike today, in 40k terms every eldar
> > gets a free banshee mask... it's just strange things like that. It's
> > more about elite units and characters again, but not entirely like 4th
> > edition. Special characters part of the basic army lists. Have a look
> > at just 2-3 armybooks and you will see what the changes are.
> > Christof
>
> Hmm, I've pretty much dropped WFB (too busy painting Dire Avengers),
> but this doesn't tempt me to give it another look.
I've always favoured wfb, today I'd say 40k is probably the better
game. But as I can still play friendly games with lots of house-rules
or 6th ed. AB I still prefer to play wfb.
>
> As someone in Ranter's position recently returned to 40k, though, I've
> noticed quite a few major changes in the way armies play even though
> the army books themselves are little different. The new objective
> rules, emphasising troops who can reach objectives quickly and stay
> there, and the fact that deep strike and infiltrate (complete with the
> new outflank rule) are now standard rules in all missions, games seem
> to be much more mobile. I've watched games where people have actually
> reembarked on transports during the game and used them as, well,
> transports. Eldar army lists I've looked at are almost entirely
> mechanised, something you'd never see in past editions - my own new
> formulation contains three transported squads, two Scorpion squads
> (which can outflank) and my trusty Warp Spiders (who are fast and who
> can deep strike should they need to), with only a single static
> Defender squad for old time's sake.
>
Are the objective rules in the small rule book? I didn't notice that
and well my son started playing 40k so I will have to learn the new
rules and help him.
Christof
pbo...@aol.com
WFB must have gone downhill, then... Not sure what drew me back to 40k
rather than WFB (aside from the Dire Avenger figs - and I do like my
newly painted-up squad) since for many years I'd hardly played 40k and
focused almost entirely on WFB.
> > As someone in Ranter's position recently returned to 40k, though, I've
> > noticed quite a few major changes in the way armies play even though
> > the army books themselves are little different. The new objective
> > rules, emphasising troops who can reach objectives quickly and stay
> > there, and the fact that deep strike and infiltrate (complete with the
> > new outflank rule) are now standard rules in all missions, games seem
> > to be much more mobile. I've watched games where people have actually
> > reembarked on transports during the game and used them as, well,
> > transports. Eldar army lists I've looked at are almost entirely
> > mechanised, something you'd never see in past editions - my own new
> > formulation contains three transported squads, two Scorpion squads
> > (which can outflank) and my trusty Warp Spiders (who are fast and who
> > can deep strike should they need to), with only a single static
> > Defender squad for old time's sake.
>
> Are the objective rules in the small rule book? I didn't notice that
> and well my son started playing 40k so I will have to learn the new
> rules and help him.
No idea since I only have the big rulebook, but I'd imagine so since
they're part of the basic mission rules. Basically, victory in
missions is now granted either by kill points (if you roll 5 or 6 when
selecting missions), which represent the number of enemy units each
side has destroyed at the end of the game, or by taking objectives
(other results). The kicker is that only Troops units are able to hold
objectives - which, since most Troops are footsloggers without bikes,
jump packs or nifty movement rules, puts a premium on transports to
get to the objective(s) on the opponent's side of the board, and also
to keep your precious Troops alive long enough to hold the objective
at the end of the game.
Also, in the specific case of the Eldar, the changes to the Troops
units favour faster, Serpent-transported units - Avengers are now the
Troops of choice, making it important to get within 18" quickly, while
the new cover rules make Storm Guardians with flamers more attractive
than Defenders, who are simply not worth taking when a squad with a
single BS3 heavy weapon costs as much as or more than a Wave Serpent
with a twin-linked version of the same weapon that takes no Troops
slots and can carry your Avengers where they need to go (I use my
Defenders mainly to get another scoring unit in an army that has no
points left for a third Serpent, and because I have the models, while
I don't have a third Serpent or any Jetbikes. I may switch them out
for Rangers if they fail me, but my army's so light on anti-tank the
extra missile launcher should come in handy).
Phil
Christ...@web.de
40k got better, 7th ed. wfb is to 6th as 5th was to 4th -only that the
new ABs ruin it.
I'm playing Warhammer Ancient Battles, Field of Glory and DBA instead.
Playing historical wargames was very helpful. There are not that many
historical wargamers as there are for Fantasy/SciFi so you learn many
new rules and a lot about accepting to play a game in a setting which
is not your first choice. It even brought me back to 40k, which I
always thought of as the inferior game compared to WFB. I still think
that is true, but you can still have a lot of fun playing it.
Ok, the missions at the end of the rulebook -hold territory, conquer
and hold and last but not least destruction. Interesting, eldar
jetbikes sound like a good unit today. I'm still not a fan of tanks
and even less as I'd have to buy serpents. My new Orks might get some
transports, but certainly not citadel models :-)
>
> Also, in the specific case of the Eldar, the changes to the Troops
> units favour faster, Serpent-transported units - Avengers are now the
> Troops of choice, making it important to get within 18" quickly, while
> the new cover rules make Storm Guardians with flamers more attractive
> than Defenders, who are simply not worth taking when a squad with a
> single BS3 heavy weapon costs as much as or more than a Wave Serpent
> with a twin-linked version of the same weapon that takes no Troops
> slots and can carry your Avengers where they need to go (I use my
> Defenders mainly to get another scoring unit in an army that has no
> points left for a third Serpent, and because I have the models, while
> I don't have a third Serpent or any Jetbikes. I may switch them out
> for Rangers if they fail me, but my army's so light on anti-tank the
> extra missile launcher should come in handy).
I still have trouble composing a 40k army. So far I try Rangers and
Avengers for core (guardians just die to easily), some striking
scorpions, fire dragons and harlequins as elite and a wraithlord with
double flamers and rocket launcher as heavy support. This is lead by a
Farseer with guide, doom and a soulstone. This is my 1000p army. The
army lacks mobility as well as stability.
Christof
pbo...@aol.com
From the lists I've seen they're a definite third choice (after
Avengers as general-purpose and Rangers for their bonus cover saves
when going to ground over an objective), usually used in niche army
lists with a big jetbike theme - either all-jetbikes or none, in other
words. From what I've seen of them in action they don't seem all that
impressive, and with the holding objective and going to ground rules
their inability to get a going to ground save bonus is probably a
liability, but people seem to like them for being fast and (due to
small unit size) cheap - for anti-infantry firepower they certainly
beat Defenders for the cost. I won't be buying any unit the models are
redone, though, especially as it seems likely the figs Jes made when
'playing around' will be released on general sale whenever the Codex
is next redone.
I'm still not a fan of tanks
> and even less as I'd have to buy serpents. My new Orks might get some
> transports, but certainly not citadel models :-)
Hmm? The new Ork vehicles are to my mind by far the best models in
that range, and really capture 'Orkiness' in a way every other unit
notably fails to. Serpents are OK - the model's grown on me a lot
since I've assembled and painted a couple in the plastic, and when I
next feel a need to engage in 40k purchases a couple of Battleforces
will serve me well - a couple more Serpents, an extra Avenger squad
and a Walker squadron (with an extra Walker), with a bunch of
admittedly useless but free and quite pretty Defenders into the
bargain.
> > Also, in the specific case of the Eldar, the changes to the Troops
> > units favour faster, Serpent-transported units - Avengers are now the
> > Troops of choice, making it important to get within 18" quickly, while
> > the new cover rules make Storm Guardians with flamers more attractive
> > than Defenders, who are simply not worth taking when a squad with a
> > single BS3 heavy weapon costs as much as or more than a Wave Serpent
> > with a twin-linked version of the same weapon that takes no Troops
> > slots and can carry your Avengers where they need to go (I use my
> > Defenders mainly to get another scoring unit in an army that has no
> > points left for a third Serpent, and because I have the models, while
> > I don't have a third Serpent or any Jetbikes. I may switch them out
> > for Rangers if they fail me, but my army's so light on anti-tank the
> > extra missile launcher should come in handy).
>
> I still have trouble composing a 40k army. So far I try Rangers and
> Avengers for core (guardians just die to easily), some striking
> scorpions, fire dragons and harlequins as elite and a wraithlord with
> double flamers and rocket launcher as heavy support. This is lead by a
> Farseer with guide, doom and a soulstone. This is my 1000p army. The
> army lacks mobility as well as stability.
General consensus seems to be that Harlequins aren't worth the cost
now the rending rules have changed, which is a shame as they're very
nice models. Plus they're now among the slower units in the army,
since nearly everything else can outflank, move 12" or take a Wave
Serpent. When I went tank-light in my first formulation of a 5th Ed
army (but still with a Serpent for the Fire Dragons - that's not a
unit that's going to survive without a transport, it's just too
dangerous for the opponent to let it get within 12" whatever he has to
throw at it to stop it), I used my Warp Spiders as a mobile screen for
Avengers and Guardians - worked quite well, with only one Avenger
dying to enemy firepower while they were on screening duty. Then
again, the enemy were Tyranids. I see rather few Wraithlords in lists
these days; now everyone's gone tank-happy there seems to be more
appreciation for just how much of a liability their low speed is. For
some unaccountable reason, almost certainly to do with the fact that
there just aren't any other mobile HS options (except the trusty
Falcon, which makes it into quite a few lists) and the current Eldar
list has screwed them for anti-tank, people seem to like loading up on
Fire Prisms.
Phil
Insane Ranter
Ugh. I hated herohammer days of WFB. The days of my army is.........
5 Khorne demons. Oh crap. I spent my troops on an ARMY and still
lost.
I'm not sure I have the patience to deal with the block movement in
WFB now a days. Which is why 40k is more appealing.
May just go back to playing Warhammer Quest for the fantasy kick
thingy if I do play fantasy.