[40K] More Nid rules rumors...
Myrmidon
update rules rumors...
Further new info on the forth coming Tyranid rules:
Hive Tyrants are to gain increased WS and I
Tyrant Guard gain Furious Charge and Rage if the Hive Tyrant they are
protecting is slain
Lictors have a reduced points cost and increased stats such as 3 wounds.
Hive Guard definitely 100% have a non LOS gun.
Pyrovores have similar stat line to tyrant guard with a Flamer that is 2
+ Poisoned and AP3
Warriors have a 4+ save and 3 wounds as standard!!!!
Hormaguants are 1/2 price and gain I5 and Ld6
Gargloyles have a WFB esque poison rule; all to hit and to wounds with
their guns auto-wound on a 6. NOT rending however along with a reduced
points cost.
Carnifexs are 1-3 per Heavy Support slot and have WS4 BS3 as standard!!!
Trygons are unber combat machines who can deepstrike in and if they land
on a model/unit it counts as charging them.
Mawlocs are not as good as Trygons in combat but have a very nasty pair
of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and
scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit. Anything that
survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end
of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the
turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will
automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the
rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.
*****
Ah, can't you smell it? The arrival of Hive Fleet Wisconsin.
Myr -CHEESE!!!- midon
--
"Conan, what is best in life?"
"To paint your miniatures, to see them driven before you on the table,
and to hear the lamentation of the cheese-mongers!"
- Del Webb
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Myrmidon
Im...@home.com says...
> Well, here's what's making the rounds as the latest new Tyranid codex
> update rules rumors...
>
> Further new info on the forth coming Tyranid rules:
>
> Hive Tyrants are to gain increased WS and I
>
> Tyrant Guard gain Furious Charge and Rage if the Hive Tyrant they are
> protecting is slain
>
Isn't that a wee bit stupid since the Tyrant Guards are supposed
to take wounds for the Tyrant?
> Lictors have a reduced points cost and increased stats such as 3 wounds.
>
Well, they're overpriced points wise now, but not terrible. We'll
have to wait and see if they swung to far the other direction.
> Hive Guard definitely 100% have a non LOS gun.
>
S8 and AP2?
> Pyrovores have similar stat line to tyrant guard with a Flamer that is 2
> + Poisoned and AP3
>
Because things with flamer templates *OFTEN* live long enough to
get close to Marines...
> Warriors have a 4+ save and 3 wounds as standard!!!!
The 4+ save will be nice, the 3 wounds will be somewhat offset by
the D3 wounds caused to Synapse by insta-kill weapons according to most
rumors about the new codex.
>
> Hormaguants are 1/2 price and gain I5 and Ld6
I5 will be nice, but perhaps a bit much when included with the
<ahem> generous points cost reduction.
>
> Gargloyles have a WFB esque poison rule; all to hit and to wounds with
> their guns auto-wound on a 6. NOT rending however along with a reduced
> points cost.
>
I'm just pleased that they've come out in plastic. Since 95% of
Nid players don't field the metal ones, it'll be nice to see some
variety in that force org slot for a change.
> Carnifexs are 1-3 per Heavy Support slot and have WS4 BS3 as standard!!!
Hmmm, points better reflect that - again, it's not exactly like
they sucked in HTH now...
>
> Trygons are unber combat machines who can deepstrike in and if they land
> on a model/unit it counts as charging them.
>
If that's the case, then they better be damn expensive in points
cost...
> Mawlocs are not as good as Trygons in combat but have a very nasty pair
> of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and
> scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit. Anything that
> survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end
> of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the
> turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will
> automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the
> rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.
>
"not as good... in combat" Hell, they got beaten with the ugly tree
(nevermind the ugly stick). If they can go underground on the same turn
they arrive, how the fook is an opponent supposed to shoot the fooking
thing?
Myr
--
RE: Long Drong's Pirates minis
Craig Little - Also do a search for "Drong" in the UK online store
Sam Campbell - Nah that's just going to bring up a a picture of Space
McQuirk.
Scott McDaniel - GODDAMMIT! I just coughed an onion through my nose.
*****
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 8, 10:10 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > Hive Tyrants are to gain increased WS and I
>
> Because they sucked in combat now?
Dual Wing Rants may now, just possibly, be an effective HQ.
5++ Warp Field, anyone?
> > Tyrant Guard gain Furious Charge and Rage if the Hive Tyrant they are
> > protecting is slain
>
> Isn't that a wee bit stupid since the Tyrant Guards are supposed
> to take wounds for the Tyrant?
Someone at GW doesn't like the Look Out Sir mechanic.
It's been quietly phased out of dexes for a while now.
The party responsible is a GW secret, but here's a hint:
It's Jervis Johnson.
> > Lictors have a reduced points cost and increased stats such as 3 wounds.
>
> Well, they're overpriced points wise now, but not terrible.
Balance almost always means *either* upstat *or* downcost.
Tweaking both without playtesting is typical of GW.
And, note that Lictors may no longer be 0-1 . . .
Now, what if Death Leaper hit at I7 with WS9 ... Rending?
> > Hive Guard definitely 100% have a non LOS gun.
>
> S8 and AP2?
"Impaler Cannon". Twin-linked afaik.
Watch them give it a Blast marker . . .
> > Pyrovores have similar stat line to tyrant guard with a Flamer that is 2
> > + Poisoned and AP3
>
> Because things with flamer templates *OFTEN* live long enough to
> get close to Marines...
GW: "launches forth an incandescent fireball from its dorsal bio-
weapon".
It's also said to have an Acid Spray attack option.
This may prove to be the actual Temp attack.
> > Warriors have a 4+ save and 3 wounds as standard!!!!
>
> The 4+ save will be nice, the 3 wounds will be somewhat offset
Maybe if they're 40pts a pop in this configuration -
These aren't Upgrade Characters, they're basic Troops!
Or perhaps this is just the rumored HQ-type "Alpha" Warrior.
> > Hormaguants are 1/2 price and gain I5 and Ld6
>
> I5 will be nice, but perhaps a bit much when included with the
> <ahem> generous points cost reduction.
Stealers are said to be cheaper and Broodlord becomes a UC.
These Broodlords - at one per Stealer Unit - will also get Psi!
Venomthropes will be coveted for their 6in Range "5+ CSv" aura.
There you go - two Ugly Tree models certain to sell anyway. Genius!
Now, just add in 5pt I5 Gaunts, and ... oh wait, there's more -
> > Carnifexs are 1-3 per Heavy Support slot and have WS4 BS3 as standard!!!
>
> Hmmm, points better reflect that
Hardee har har. "Attention everybody!
You can now take nine Fexes in your Nid armies!"
This will be sure to please all of the Raider Haters.
Fexes can't be TOO costly - or they may not sell as well.
Also note that they will get more Attacks in their statline.
Now, knowing that, imagine what a brute One Eye is bound to be.
> > Trygons are unber combat machines who can deepstrike in and if they land
> > on a model/unit it counts as charging them.
>
> If that's the case, then they better be damn expensive in points
Heh. Let's not pretend the point of this Codex is balance.
Ex: The Gon also has some sort of "bio-electric" attack.
> > Mawlocs are not as good as Trygons in combat but have a very nasty pair
> > of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and
> > scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit.
So basically, drop a big, S6 AP2 bomb on any choice enemy Unit?
Scatter minus BS? Are these things at least 0-1?
> > Anything that
> > survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end
> > of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the
> > turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will
> > automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the
> > rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.
What? Scatter, destroy yet more and duck again?
Hit & Blow Up & Run & Hit & Blow Up & Run & ...
GW also implies a new Tail Attack.
It's the only way to be *sure*.
> If they can go underground on the same turn
> they arrive, how the fook is an opponent supposed to shoot the fooking
> thing?
This sounds like CSM Daemons' Forced Reserve rule.
Placement will play a big role in the tactic's effectiveness.
Rumor: Ravener Reserves may then use the Loc's tunnel exit.
Then there's the Maw's Big Gulp rule . . .
Yeah, good thing dex escalation is a thing of the past.
Playa
Doctor Rock
"Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2588dc015...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Well, here's what's making the rounds as the latest new Tyranid codex
> update rules rumors...
>
> Further new info on the forth coming Tyranid rules:
>
> Hive Tyrants are to gain increased WS and I
... so, restored old WS & I.
> Tyrant Guard gain Furious Charge and Rage if the Hive Tyrant they are
> protecting is slain
huh, why? once it's dead, wouldn't they just vegetate instead? this
doesn't seem to fit with the hive-mind background at all.
> Pyrovores have similar stat line to tyrant guard with a Flamer that is 2
> + Poisoned and AP3
... another codex, another AP3 template ...
> Warriors have a 4+ save and 3 wounds as standard!!!!
exclamation exclamation etc. indeed. i'd be very surprised if this turned
out to be true.
> Hormaguants are 1/2 price and gain I5 and Ld6
it's kinda sad that this IS probably the only way to make them halfway
competitive, but okay
> Gargloyles have a WFB esque poison rule; all to hit and to wounds with
> their guns auto-wound on a 6. NOT rending however along with a reduced
> points cost.
if this is really based on hit AND wound rolls, it seems excessive.
> Carnifexs are 1-3 per Heavy Support slot and have WS4 BS3 as standard!!!
... so, restored old WS & BS.
> Mawlocs are not as good as Trygons in combat but have a very nasty pair
> of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and
> scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit. Anything that
> survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end
> of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the
> turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will
> automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the
> rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.
... so basically, you're guaranteed almost no chance to ever shoot at this
thing. cute.
Doctor Rock
>> of rules: 1. When they deepstrike place a large(?) blast marker down and
>> scatter etc. Anymodel touched suffers a S6 AP2 hit. Anything that
>> survives is pushed out the way and the Mawloc appears. Then at the end
>> of any subsequent Tyranid movement phase (could possibly include the
>> turn it arrives) the Mawloc may "go underground" again. It will
>> automatically arrive in the following Tyranid turn and again follow the
>> rules above to see if anything is hurt by its arrival.
>>
>
> "not as good... in combat" Hell, they got beaten with the ugly tree
> (nevermind the ugly stick). If they can go underground on the same turn
> they arrive, how the fook is an opponent supposed to shoot the fooking
> thing?
i'd be surprised and appalled if it could "Return to the Earth" on the same
turn it arrived; that WOULD be beyond broken. but, even assuming it has to
wait until its following movement phase, any player with more than a couple
of brain cells will deep strike it to minimise incoming heavy fire in the
interim... so in the vast majority of cases it will make no difference to
the thing's effective immunity to ranged retaliation.
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 9, 2:24 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> surprised and appalled
Yeah, about that -
If half this stuff is true, there's a new Codex: Win in town.
It's mostly translated from the foreignese, but you'll get the gist:
+++
General:
Shadow in the Warp is now 12in range on 3d6,
Free for Tyrant (WS8), Warriors and Trygon Alpha.
Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6.
Everybody comes with 2pr Scytals standard.
Tyrant variant called the Swarmlord WS9, 4 improved Boneswords.
Passed ISvs against wounds from him must be rerolled.
May buff one unit within 18in w/ preferred, furious or two other USRs.
Zoanthrope variant whose S is equal to its remaining W (up to 10?).
Pyrovore's template is S6 AP4, not AP3.
Mawloc 160pt, Carnifex 170pt WS3 W4 A4
Tyrannofex? "Thorax Swarm" S4 AP5 Assault 20 (!)
Trygon (200pt WS5 W6 A6) cannot assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto.
Follows the same rules as Drop Pods, i.e. stop within 1in.
That said, Mycetic Spore deployment is back . . .
Synapse Creatures:
Units within 12in are Fearless. No eternal warrior.
Feral behaviour:
Each tyranid unit not in range of a Synapse creature has to pass a
morale check or reverts to instinctive behaviour. Melee creatures move
as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for
the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies.
Weapons:
Weapon symbionts are no longer modified by the creature that wields
it.
There are heavy variants of most of them for the bigger creatures.
Venom Cannon:
3in Blast. Additional -1 penalty against vehicles, so glance is -3,
pen -1.
Heavy Venom Cannon: As above, but S9.
Scything Talons:
One pair grants rerolls on all 1s to hit, two pairs, to reroll all.
Boneswords cause instant death vs a morale check.
Two pairs = morale check using 3d6.
Tentacle whip:
Reduces I of attacking models to 1.
Crushing Claws:
+d3 additional attacks.
Biomorphs grant general special abilities now. Examples:
Toxin Glands grant 4+ Poison; Adrenal, Furious Charge, etc.
Injector grants Instant Death on a to wound roll of 6.
HQ:
Hive Tyrant, Alpha Warrior, Tervigon.
Named: Hive Tyrant IC and a parasite-spreading winged horror.
Hive Tyrant: I6, WS8 Scything talons, Tentacle Whip and Bonesword.
Might be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)
Psychic powers:
Scream - All enemy units within 18in take a morale check.
If failed, they suffer the difference between their roll and their
morale characteristic as casulties - no armour saves allowed.
Leech - One unit within 12in suffers d3 S3 AP2 autohits.
For each casualty, the Tyrant gains 1W, up to a maximum of 10.
Booga Booga - Pass a morale check or fall back.
Pew Pew - A psychic shooting attack.
Alpha Warrior:
WS6, which he passes-on to any unit of warriors he joins.
Tervigon: Psyker. Creates 3d6 termagants each movement phase, even if
in CC.
If he dies, gaunts near him suffer heavy losses.
The horror is a hit and run monster with wings. Each enemy unit
outflanking may suffer casualties: your oponent names one model within
the unit, it has to pass a toughness test. if it fails it is killed
and the tyranid player gets d6 Ripperswarms. He may do the same to
victims he kills in close combat.
Each Hive Tyrant may be given a Tyrant guard.
Elite:
Hive Guard: 1-3 @BS4. Weapons are 24in S8 AP4 and A2.
Lictors: 1-3 as a unit. Deployed like marbo. Still grant +1 to reserve
rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6in, as
long as he was on the table for at least one turn.
Ymgarls:
5-10. no Broodlord. Genestealers that morph: they may increase their
Attacks, Toughness or strength characteristic at the beginning of each
close combat phase. They have the rule "hibernation": note one piece
of terrain. when the genestealers become available, they are placed in
this piece of terrain. they may move, shoot and charge.
Zoanthropes:
1-3. Warp field grants 3+ ward save. 2 psi: warp lightning S6 AP3
Blast and warp lance 18in S10. There is a named Zoanthrope which
leeches Wounds and a B5 shooting attack.
Death Leaper:
WS9 I7, deployed as a lictor, but may retreat and be replaced next
turn.
Troops:
Hormagaunts: 10-30 @WS3 S3 I5 A2 Infantry.
May be given poison glands and adrenalin.
Gaunts:
S4 AP5 A1. For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2
flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristic.
(Gaunts with Sacs and Adrenal reroll to-hit AND to-wound vs Marines!
O. M. G.)
Warriors: WS5 4+ Save. If led by an Alpha, they gain his WS.
Genestealers: As before, fewer options. Point cost lower than Grey
hunters, no way to boost their armour save. Have infiltration and
fleet.
Broodlord comes with his old profile, at a point cost of a longfang
with a heavy boltgun.
May have two psycic powers: Confusion, which makes both players roll a
d6 and add the morale characteristics of a model chosen by the tyranid
player. If the result for the tyranid player is the same or higher,
the chosen miniature may not attack in this close combat phase. The
other ability reduces the morale characteristic of surrounding enemies
by -1.
Fast Attack:
Winged warriors, Gargoyles, Harpies:
A flying, Trygon-sized MC that drops Spore mines on units it flies
over.
Raveners: come with two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax
swarm: ammunition (3 flamer variants) chosen at the beginnig of the
game.
Heavy Support:
Carnifexes: In squads of three. Have to carry the same loadout. Cannot
boost their Initiative, cannot surpass 3+ Armour save. When charging,
carnifexes increase their initiative by t. If you buy them adrenaline,
that grants you I4 and S10. They still have 9 in their profile.
Carnifexes start with two pairs of scything talons and 4 attacks.
Trygon: WS6, S6, 6 Lifepoints and 6 attacks. 12in S6 AP5 A6 ranged
weapon.
If upgraded to a Alpha, it's 18in A12!
Tyrannofex: High Toughness MC w/ Fleshborer @S4 AP5 A20!
Acid spray: S6 AP4 Temp used exactly like the hellhound.
Capsule cannon: 48in S10 AP4 A2.
Dedicated Transports:
Yes, seriously. Spore Capsule:
You may buy a Spore Capsule for one Monstrous Creature or up to 20
Infantry.
The Spore Capsule is Deep Striking, and the unit within disembarks.
It may neither move nor attack. It may still shoot.
The Capsule is WS/BS2 T5/6 W3 A3 w/ a 6in S6 A6 defense weapon.
+++
Good luck with all that, Myr . . .
Playa
Myrmidon
@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 9, 2:24 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > surprised and appalled
>
> Yeah, about that -
>
> If half this stuff is true, there's a new Codex: Win in town.
> It's mostly translated from the foreignese, but you'll get the gist:
>
GAH! My eyes!
> +++
>
> General:
> Shadow in the Warp is now 12in range on 3d6,
It wasn't that great when it was unlimited range...
> Free for Tyrant (WS8), Warriors and Trygon Alpha.
So it's a 'free' minor annoyance rule now...
> Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6.
Wait, what?!? Ok, that just flies straight in the face of all
the previous fluff - reduced psychic abilities due to the Nid's shadow
blotting out the warp and its energies...
>
> Everybody comes with 2pr Scytals standard.
Meh.
>
> Tyrant variant called the Swarmlord WS9, 4 improved Boneswords.
> Passed ISvs against wounds from him must be rerolled.
> May buff one unit within 18in w/ preferred, furious or two other USRs.
>
WTF!!! I thought Gav wasn't working for GW any more...
> Zoanthrope variant whose S is equal to its remaining W (up to 10?).
This is 'Teh Dumb'.
>
> Pyrovore's template is S6 AP4, not AP3.
Tyranid heavy flamer. I'd be more impressed if it was something
along the lines of the old strangle web guns which could be mixed in
with gant units. Why would anyone let a single model flamer weapon live
long enough to get close enough to their troops to be effective? This
is why IG take lots of flamers - because very few live long enough to
use them.
> Mawloc 160pt, Carnifex 170pt WS3 W4 A4
Mawloc still = ugly...
>
> Tyrannofex? "Thorax Swarm" S4 AP5 Assault 20 (!)
What, did it eat an IG punisher cannon? I know Simon Bishop had
a converted Fex with a living hive in its torso and GW really liked
Bishop's web site, but that is just F'ing overkill.
>
> Trygon (200pt WS5 W6 A6) cannot assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto.
> Follows the same rules as Drop Pods, i.e. stop within 1in.
Have to see the rules for this in action, but I get the feeling
that it's going to be over the top too...
> That said, Mycetic Spore deployment is back . . .
>
Not impressed. Nothing like having all your non-synapse stuff
arrive without any synapse critters to support it due to random rolls
for unit arrival.
> Synapse Creatures:
> Units within 12in are Fearless. No eternal warrior.
So, did they get rid of the immune to insta-kill rules, or simply
remake it with this?
>
> Feral behaviour:
> Each tyranid unit not in range of a Synapse creature has to pass a
> morale check or reverts to instinctive behaviour. Melee creatures move
> as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for
> the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies.
>
This might be a decent compromise. Have to wait and see - but
with GW's notorious lack of solid play testing and common sense, I'm not
all that hopeful.
> Weapons:
> Weapon symbionts are no longer modified by the creature that wields
> it.
> There are heavy variants of most of them for the bigger creatures.
>
Which kind of sucks in my opinion. That was one of the great
things about the 4th Ed Tyranid codex, it had tones of flexibility so
that one could mix and match weapons platforms and experiment rather
than bring the same cookie cutter army to the table every time.
> Venom Cannon:
> 3in Blast. Additional -1 penalty against vehicles, so glance is -3,
> pen -1.
> Heavy Venom Cannon: As above, but S9.
In other words, even MORE USELESS at range against vehicles. WTF!
Why would anyone ever take one if they can get a barbed strangler
instead? Unless they've nerfed the living shit out of that too, it's
got a large template, pinning, AND is semi-effective against vehicles
compared to the VC. With the reported changes to the Bio-vores (large
blast templates), who the hell would even bother to take a ranged anti-
infantry Tyrant?
>
> Scything Talons:
> One pair grants rerolls on all 1s to hit, two pairs, to reroll all.
> Boneswords cause instant death vs a morale check.
> Two pairs = morale check using 3d6.
>
Well, it'll certainly make those 2000 points or more tournaments
MUCH quicker to play.
> Tentacle whip:
> Reduces I of attacking models to 1.
Wow - that's freaking overkill too! I could see reducing
opponent's I by one, but everyone's I to 1. What happens when T Whips
meet the Space Wolve's Storm Caller?
>
> Crushing Claws:
> +d3 additional attacks.
Whoa! Stop right there mister! Time out! Who let the reasonable
one of the bunch through rules testing? How am I supposed to get 9 Fexs
with up to 13 attacks each on the table now?
>
> Biomorphs grant general special abilities now. Examples:
> Toxin Glands grant 4+ Poison; Adrenal, Furious Charge, etc.
I can see wanting to use the USRs more, but it does reduce the
flexibility even more. And of course what 40K needs is MORE cookie
cutter armies.
> Injector grants Instant Death on a to wound roll of 6.
Does that mean I have to make the 'Vroom! Vroom!' sound effect if
my Nids use injectors? I wonder what the Nitrous Oxide setup or the
lift kit will do for them? Can I get a Carnifex with chrome rims and
neon running lights too?
>
> HQ:
> Hive Tyrant, Alpha Warrior, Tervigon.
> Named: Hive Tyrant IC and a parasite-spreading winged horror.
>
> Hive Tyrant: I6, WS8 Scything talons, Tentacle Whip and Bonesword.
> Might be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)
>
WS8?!? What the Gav...
> Psychic powers:
> Scream - All enemy units within 18in take a morale check.
> If failed, they suffer the difference between their roll and their
> morale characteristic as casulties - no armour saves allowed.
>
Cheese! Cheese! Cheese!
> Leech - One unit within 12in suffers d3 S3 AP2 autohits.
> For each casualty, the Tyrant gains 1W, up to a maximum of 10.
>
Formage! Formage! Formage!
> Booga Booga - Pass a morale check or fall back.
This is dumb - the Nids WANT to engage things in HTH, and the
units it would really like to 'fall back' are extremely unlikely to fail
morale checks. 'Teh Dumb x2'.
>
> Pew Pew - A psychic shooting attack.
>
What, and miss the 'fantastic' anti-vehicle ranged shooting of the
supposed new venom cannon rules?
> Alpha Warrior:
> WS6, which he passes-on to any unit of warriors he joins.
Velveda - not really cheese, but it would like to be.
>
> Tervigon: Psyker. Creates 3d6 termagants each movement phase, even if
> in CC.
> If he dies, gaunts near him suffer heavy losses.
Wow! A wandering spawning pool. Neat-O! Who's been feeding him
and watering him after midnight again...
>
> The horror is a hit and run monster with wings. Each enemy unit
> outflanking may suffer casualties: your oponent names one model within
> the unit, it has to pass a toughness test. if it fails it is killed
> and the tyranid player gets d6 Ripperswarms. He may do the same to
> victims he kills in close combat.
Might as well 'randomly apply ripper swarms' to the game - it's
not as if anyone was taking them as a viable unit or anything. And it's
not like they could have changed their rules or points cost to MAKE THEM
a viable unit... Sigh.
>
> Each Hive Tyrant may be given a Tyrant guard.
One only? Not 1-3?
>
> Elite:
> Hive Guard: 1-3 @BS4. Weapons are 24in S8 AP4 and A2.
So, same S8 as the Venom Cannon which is glance only against AV14,
and 2/3rds the range. OH BOY! WHAT A BARGAIN!!! <Pardon me while I
wipe that drooling sarcasm off.>
>
> Lictors: 1-3 as a unit. Deployed like marbo. Still grant +1 to reserve
> rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6in, as
> long as he was on the table for at least one turn.
>
Along with 3 wounds and lower points cost?
> Ymgarls:
> 5-10. no Broodlord. Genestealers that morph: they may increase their
> Attacks, Toughness or strength characteristic at the beginning of each
> close combat phase.
Oh goody! The Nid version of Chaos mutants with random abilities.
> They have the rule "hibernation": note one piece
> of terrain. when the genestealers become available, they are placed in
> this piece of terrain. they may move, shoot and charge.
>
Wait? WTF?!? How the hell do you overlook an ENTIRE BROOD of
hibernating stealers? Is it bigger than a bread box?
Wait - did he say "shoot" - apparently they're now armed with bolters
they've scavanged off of dead marines?
> Zoanthropes:
> 1-3. Warp field grants 3+ ward save. 2 psi: warp lightning S6 AP3
> Blast and warp lance 18in S10. There is a named Zoanthrope which
> leeches Wounds and a B5 shooting attack.
I'm gathering the O.P. wasn't a native English speaker. Does a 3+
ward save = 3+ invulnerable save, or do now I have to equip my Nids with
some dispel scrolls? And WTF is a B5 shooting attack? Is it going to
summon Captain Sheridan armed with a PPG pistol?
>
> Death Leaper:
> WS9 I7, deployed as a lictor, but may retreat and be replaced next
> turn.
>
WS9 - seriously? SERIOUSLY?
> Troops:
> Hormagaunts: 10-30 @WS3 S3 I5 A2 Infantry.
> May be given poison glands and adrenalin.
Well, there weren't that many viable bio-morph combos with their
current price costs, but with a lower base cost more flexibility would
have been great. Sigh...
>
> Gaunts:
> S4 AP5 A1. For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2
> flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristic.
> (Gaunts with Sacs and Adrenal reroll to-hit AND to-wound vs Marines!
> O. M. G.)
OMG! He said O.M.G. like with periods and everything you know.
An S2 flamer template weapon that wounds against the S characteristic?
So it's a weird version of the strangle web gun in other words.
>
> Warriors: WS5 4+ Save. If led by an Alpha, they gain his WS.
>
Yeah, because it sucked having decent shooty warriors. Glad I
stocked up on inexpensive Flying critters from Starship Troopers.
> Genestealers: As before, fewer options. Point cost lower than Grey
> hunters, no way to boost their armour save. Have infiltration and
> fleet.
Ok, no 4+ save? Then who cares if they're cheaper, they're still
going to die in droves as bolter fodder. I can see why they NEED
infiltration.
>
> Broodlord comes with his old profile, at a point cost of a longfang
> with a heavy boltgun.
> May have two psycic powers: Confusion, which makes both players roll a
> d6 and add the morale characteristics of a model chosen by the tyranid
> player. If the result for the tyranid player is the same or higher,
> the chosen miniature may not attack in this close combat phase. The
> other ability reduces the morale characteristic of surrounding enemies
> by -1.
"Look into my eyes... You're getting sleepy, sleepy, sleepy...
OM-NOM-NOM-NOM!!!"
>
> Fast Attack:
> Winged warriors, Gargoyles, Harpies:
> A flying, Trygon-sized MC that drops Spore mines on units it flies
> over.
>
'Thank God elephants don't fly...' Oh, never mind, apparently
they do now.
> Raveners: come with two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax
> swarm: ammunition (3 flamer variants) chosen at the beginnig of the
> game.
>
Sharks - with fricken' lasers on their heads... Ok, all joking
aside, flamer template weapons seem like a workable concept on Raveners
with their deep strike abilties.
> Heavy Support:
> Carnifexes: In squads of three. Have to carry the same loadout. Cannot
> boost their Initiative, cannot surpass 3+ Armour save.
Seems almost reasonable by comparison to some of the other rules
supposed so far.
> When charging, > carnifexes increase their initiative by t.
Ahhh, there's the catch. I1 plus T6 = I7 on the charge. Wowzers!
It'll go before most Marine ICs in HTH on the charge. How about those
flesh hooks! (Wanna bet they become 'standard issue' on Fexes now?)
> If you buy them adrenaline,
> that grants you I4 and S10. They still have 9 in their profile.
Do they get the +T bonus to I on the charge? Wholely fookin'
shit.
> Carnifexes start with two pairs of scything talons and 4 attacks.
>
> Trygon: WS6, S6, 6 Lifepoints and 6 attacks. 12in S6 AP5 A6 ranged
> weapon.
> If upgraded to a Alpha, it's 18in A12!
Can you say 'Las-cannon bait'? I knew you could.
>
> Tyrannofex: High Toughness MC w/ Fleshborer @S4 AP5 A20!
So it ate a punisher cannon... (Can you say 'Shameless attempt to
speed up tournament games while increasing points sizes and overall
model count'? Can I have a CHA-CH$NG? Oh Hell Yeah!!!)
> Acid spray: S6 AP4 Temp used exactly like the hellhound.
So, it's cheese AND a side of zesty BBQ sauce. Yeehaw!
> Capsule cannon: 48in S10 AP4 A2.
>
Holy freakin' Hell - a Nid ranged weapon that might actually kill
Russ and Raiders at ranges greater than "press the barrel of the weapon
against the target, pull trigger, and pray". Someone obviously didn't
get the memo that the Nids are 'only a close combat army'.
I'd be willing to bet that this is one of those "Doesn't have an
'Official' model kit" units that has been mentioned. Which is GW speak
for "run right out and buy BOTH a Tyrant AND a Fex kit there kids!"
CCHHAAA-CCCHHH$$$$NNNGGG!!!!
> Dedicated Transports:
> Yes, seriously. Spore Capsule:
So, not really dedicated Transports like say a Chimera or a Rhino,
etc. Nid drop-pods. Basically 'new' seeding swarm list type rules...
Because nothing says fun like trying to turtle in the center of
your own deployment zone to avoid 'out-flank'ing Gene Stealers only to
have deep striking Fex swarms in your center on turn two.
Bend over and pucker up there buttercup.
> You may buy a Spore Capsule for one Monstrous Creature or up to 20
> Infantry.
> The Spore Capsule is Deep Striking, and the unit within disembarks.
> It may neither move nor attack. It may still shoot.
Not any huge departure from the normal deep strike rules.
> The Capsule is WS/BS2 T5/6 W3 A3 w/ a 6in S6 A6 defense weapon.
>
Oh cool! So it's a drop pod, and a 'mini death-wind' esque
weapons pod all rolled into one. Hey, that seems fair. (And here I was
going to ask why anyone would assault it rather than just assaulting the
troops that bailed out of it. Foolish me...)
> +++
>
> Good luck with all that, Myr . . .
>
Yeeeaaaahhhh... It just gladdens my heart to see these if they're
anything close to accurate. I mean after all, the 4th Ed codex was WAY
TO COMPLEX according to some of the precious little snow flakes out
there. "OMG! You mean I have to read it AND think about my choices?
WAAAAH!" After all, who wants to play with/against a flexible and
reasonably balanced army with lots of variation. With this new one it
looks like I can field HTH, or butt-loads of HTH, or Uber HTH, or even
Drop-pod HTH. Woot! Just look at all that variation. A true triumph
of Gav-sonian thinking!
In the immortal words of Ben Franklin "Fart Proudly". Don't worry
about embarrassment. Odds are good with a codex like this, few if any
other gamers will be around to hear it.
Myrmidon
--
RGMW has always been brutally honest. It's probably why we're
considered the scum of the GW gaming community.
- Fog
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 11, 8:49 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <9b8601d4-bd5c-46c3-b3da-13b2e5879e77
> @k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> My eyes!
Mein auge:
"Even as a Tyranid player I was baffled with the complexity of the new
codex. But maybe it was only the german version. I'm german, but used
to reading warhammer related stuff in english. I cannot give any infos
on the guns though, because they have weird names in german and I'm
not used to them. Sorry. Only that they ain't x+2 anymore."
"Most of the stat stuff we saw a couple of days back is apparently
from sheets that were shown in marketing briefings to staff of GW
stores and independent specialists. Got confirmation of most of it
from both my local GW and FLGS today. I mention this mostly because it
amuses me to think that anyone posting that on warseer and making out
that they're important is probably just a redshirt, or a regional
manager at most."
Revealed were more than 20 bestiary entries, including:
Hormagaunts - 6pts basic
Termagants - 5 points basic
Gargoyle - 6pts
Stealers - 14pts apiece
Warriors - 30pts basic
Raveners - 30pts basic
Biovore- 45pts
Deathleaper - 140pts basic
Hive gaurd - 50pts apiece
Tyrant guard 60 pts
Venomthropes 55pts
Mawloc - 170pts
Trygon - 200pts
Swarmlord - 280pts
Carnifex - 160pts, Stranglethorn cannon - whatever that is.
You can give more creatures regeneration now.
Tyranids never have additional close combat weapons.
Grapplinghooks (Flesh Hooks) are R6 S6 Ap- Assault.
No army-wide MTC, but Raveners and Hormagaunts have it as standard.
Armor is called differently. Basic armor (6+) is "Chitin" and 4+ is
called "Verstärkter Carapax" (Carapace), etc.
> > Shadow in the Warp is now 12in range on 3d6,
> It wasn't that great when it was unlimited range
Free is still kinda great since avg rolls are >10. Rants certainly
won't suffer:
New Tyrant power called Paroxysm. Upgrades include Ancient Adversary
which increases your success with reserve rolls, and another one that
gives preferred enemy to units in 6in. The 4-Bonesword-Tyrant gains a
4++ save in CC. A Tyrant allows a single Hormagaunt brood to
Outflank.
> > Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6.
> that just flies straight in the face of all the previous fluff
I'd presumed that was for enemy Psykers.
"Tyranids don't suffer Perils when rolling 11 or 66 on Psychic
powers"
Zoantrope: same profile only 3 wounds, 5+ armor, 3+ ward save, 2 Psi:
Warp Lightning: R24 S5 AP3 Explosive 1
Warp Lance: R18 S10 AP1 Assault 1, Lance
A special Zo that was about 90pts with a 5in blast weapon SX DS1? (X
is the number of life points and it can get up to 10!) . Every model
killed by this creature increases its wounds by 1 but shooting its
weapon costs 3 wounds. Also there is an HQ model that spawns 3d6
Gaunts every movement phase. If you roll doubles, you cannot spawn any
more gaunts for the rest of the game.
Venomthrope:
- 1-3, Zoanthrope profile only with W3 A2
- has tentacle whips, toxic Miasma, 2+ poison
- all tyranid units within 6in gain a 5+ cover save and defensive
grenades
- charging enemy units test as for dangerous terrain
> I thought Gav wasn't working for GW any more
He's no longer a freeloader - he's a freelancer.
The distinction is subtle, but the effect is the same.
> > Trygon (200pt WS5 W6 A6) cannot assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto.
> > Follows the same rules as Drop Pods, i.e. stop within 1in.
> Have to see the rules for this in action, but I get the feeling
> that it's going to be over the top
You mean like:
Trygon WS4 BS4 S6 T6 W6 I4 A6 Ld8 ASv3+
- deep strike, fleet
- leaves behind a tunnel through which other units may deep strike in
subsequent turns
- may NOT charge the turn he deep strikes
- bio electric field is R12 S6 AP- Assault 6, may be upgraded to
alpha:
- synapse, Ld10, shadow-o-warp, bioelectric field has Assault 12
Mawloc: WS4 BS0 S6 T6 W6 I4 A3 Ld9 ASv3+
- may deep strike, appearing under a unit: place a S6 AP3 B5, then
move all surviving models aside as it is not placed in CC
- has fall back and sprint rule
- if he is not in CC in your next movement, he may burrow again, to
automatically reappear in the following movement phase
> > Synapse Creatures:
> > Units within 12in are Fearless. No eternal warrior.
> So, did they get rid of the immune to insta-kill rules, or simply
> remake it with this?
Yeah, "Eternal Warrior" tested darker in focus than "Immunity".
When its grim sparkliness was confirmed, it was made official.
> > Melee creatures move
> > as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for
> > the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies.
> This might be a decent compromise. Have to wait and see
I see it as what you'd want the little ones to do anyway.
Besides, how are they NOT in CC when their minders are being killed?
"Instinctive behavior is split into 2 classes:
Lurkers: take cover and shoot at the nearest target
Hunters: always move and assault nearest enemy"
> > Scything Talons
> it'll certainly make those 2000 points or more tournaments
> MUCH quicker to play
Especially if all the armies are Nids ...
> > Wow - that's freaking overkill too!
I'm beginning to sense a pattern ...
> How am I supposed to get 9 Fexs
> with up to 13 attacks each on the table now?
Sadly, 9 in 1500pts is still "doable".
Carnifex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A4 Ld6 ASv3+
- 1-3, expensive
- they may buy freaking EVERYTHING, but no more profile upgrades
> > Injector grants Instant Death on a to wound roll of 6.
> Does that mean I have to make the 'Vroom! Vroom!' sound effect if
> my Nids use injectors? I wonder what the Nitrous Oxide setup or the
> lift kit will do for them?
In this case, those are German "Adrenalin Injectors".
Either way, I'd rather be blown ...
> > Hive Tyrant: I6, WS8 Scything talons, Tentacle Whip and Bonesword.
> > Might be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)
> WS8?!? What the Gav...
Hive Tyrant: Old profile, No ward save
- Shadows of warp: All psychers using their powers within 12in must
roll 3d6, double 6 or 1 will result in a Perils attack
- comes with scyting claws and can equip about any weapon and morph in
the book
- may have two of the following psychic powers for free:
The Horror: One enemy unit within 18in must take a panic test
Life leech: R18 unit receives d3 S3 hits no ASv, regains 1W for every
wound caused
warp scream: R12 enemy units WS/BS reduced to 1 for a round
Dominate: Hive tyrant synapse range is 18in for one round
- May buy any number of these abilities:
Horror: Units wishing to charge or shoot must pass a Ld check
Vicious: A Troops unit may flank and you get +1 to all reserve rolls
Ancient enemy: All Tyranid units within 6in have preferred enemy rule
- guards stayed pretty much the same except biomorphs, and they have 3
wounds
> > Alpha Warrior:
> > WS6, which he passes-on to any unit of warriors he joins.
> Velveda - not really cheese, but it would like to be.
Velveeta Warrior: WS6 BS5 S5 T5 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 ASv4+
- synapse creature, shadow of warp
- may buy almost everything except the REALLY heavy stuff
- tyranid warriors within 12in may use his WS and I
> > Tervigon: Psyker. Creates 3d6 termagants each movement phase, even if
> > in CC.
> > If he dies, gaunts near him suffer heavy losses.
> Wow! A wandering spawning pool. Neat-O!
Tervigon: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A3 Ld10 ASv2+
- may spawn 3d6 termagants per movement phase which may be activated
as normal, but on a double he cannot spawn anything from then on
- has spike blasters, is monstrous
- termagants within 6in may use his Ld
- Has dominate psi power and may exchange it for:
Catalyst: a unt within 12tn gains feel no pain
Force: a unit within 12in may run/sprint AND shoot
> > The horror is a hit and run monster with wings. Each enemy unit
> > outflanking may suffer casualties: your oponent names one model within
> > the unit, it has to pass a toughness test. if it fails it is killed
> > and the tyranid player gets d6 Ripperswarms. He may do the same to
> > victims he kills in close combat.
> Might as well 'randomly apply ripper swarms' to the game - it's
> not as if anyone was taking them as a viable unit or anything. And it's
> not like they could have changed their rules or points cost to MAKE THEM
> a viable unit
Absorber swarms (Rippers):
- inexpensive, may deep strike
- when they fail instinctive behavior they eat each other (one wound
per point failed)
Winged absorber swarms (Winged Rippers!):
- well, absorber swarms with wings
Harpy (Harridan?):
WS3 BS4 S6 T5 W4 I5 A3 Ld7 ASv4+
- monstrous creature, flyer, twinlinked thornstrangler
- every Unit he charges gains -1 I
- may drop three spore mines on any unit he flies over
Spore mines:
- 3-6, deep striking S4 AP4 B5
Biovores:
- cheap, each may shoot one spore mine that explode as above
Pyrovore:
- Biovore profile only with W3, S5 heavy flamer
- when killed outright explodes in flaming acid and damages everyone
around
_ ignores armor saves in close combat. It hasn't got a super fighty
stat line, though.
> > Each Hive Tyrant may be given a Tyrant guard.
> One only? Not 1-3?
I presumed 1 Unit. All I have so far:
Tyrant Guard:
- may buy some biomorpgs like wrenching claws and stuff
- may carry all weapons except the REALLY heavy stuff
> > Hive Guard: 1-3 @BS4. Weapons are 24in S8 AP4 and A2.
> So, same S8 as the Venom Cannon which is glance only against AV14,
> and 2/3rds the range. OH BOY! WHAT A BARGAIN!
Well, that will depend on the Unit cost, really.
> > Lictors: 1-3 as a unit. Deployed like marbo. Still grant +1 to reserve
> > rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6in, as
> > long as he was on the table for at least one turn.
> Along with 3 wounds and lower points cost?
Lictors:
- have 3 wounds, move through cover
- give +1 to reserve rolls and act as a teleprt homer within 6in
- appear anywhere on the table when available but may not move or
shoot that turn
- has catcher claws and AP and scything claws
> > Ymgarls:
> > 5-10. no Broodlord. Genestealers that morph: they may increase their
> > Attacks, Toughness or strength characteristic at the beginning of each
> > close combat phase.
>
> Oh goody! The Nid version of Chaos mutants with random abilities.
I take it from the wording, it's at player discretion.
Chaos gets lampshaded by GW's lazy "d6 discretion".
> > They have the rule "hibernation": note one piece
> > of terrain. when the genestealers become available, they are placed in
> > this piece of terrain. they may move, shoot and charge.
> Wait? WTF?!? How the hell do you overlook an ENTIRE BROOD of
> hibernating stealers?
Doi! They're invisible! Like Lictors when the clover's in bloom ...
> Wait - did he say "shoot" - apparently they're now armed with bolters
Brood upgrade guys get Psi shots, iirc.
> Does a 3+ ward save = 3+ invulnerable save
Ja.
> a B5 shooting attack?
'B' attacks are Blast, B5 is a 5in Blast.
> > Death Leaper
> WS9 - seriously? SERIOUSLY?
There's more:
"Deathleapers decrease the Ld of a chosen model, influence enemy
models in a 12in radius: eg only d6in Mv in difficult terrain."
> > Troops:
> > Hormagaunts: 10-30 @WS3 S3 I5 A2 Infantry.
> > May be given poison glands and adrenalin.
>
> Well, there weren't that many viable bio-morph combos with their
> current price costs
I think this was meant to read 'Termagants' -
"Termagants: No longer may charge 12in."
> > Gaunts:
> > S4 AP5 A1. For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2
> > flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristic.
> An S2 flamer template weapon that wounds against the S characteristic?
> So it's a weird version of the strangle web gun in other words.
"Hormagaunts have two individual weapons:
Toxic stinger: R18 S3 AP6 Assault 1
Grappling choker: RFlamer S2 AP- Assault 1, wounds against S not T
- every unit allows one Tervigon to be played as core (Troops)".
> > Warriors: WS5 4+ Save. If led by an Alpha, they gain his WS.
> Yeah, because it sucked having decent shooty warriors. Glad I
> stocked up on inexpensive Flying critters from Starship Troopers.
Tyranid Warrior:
- 3 wounds, scything claws
- may get all weapons except for the REALLY heavy ones
- may have 2 melee biomorphs
- synapse creature
Winged Warrior:
- only 5 points more expensive than normal ones
- no options for medium/heavy weapons
Warrior standard loadout is A3 scything talons and BS3
"Neuralfresser", I think, that would be devourer in english. You can
also give some weapons only broodwise, to prevent wound allocation I
suppose. Warriors have 4+ as base, so they have extended carapace.
Warriors W3 but a 4+/5+ save that cannot be improved.
> > Genestealers: As before, fewer options. Point cost lower than Grey
> > hunters, no way to boost their armour save. Have infiltration and
> > fleet.
>
> Ok, no 4+ save? Then who cares if they're cheaper, they're still
> going to die in droves as bolter fodder. I can see why they NEED
> infiltration.
Genestealers: same profile, not subject to instinctive behavior
- may buy a symbiarch for almost 50 points who has more WS S T W A and
Ld.
- may have one of two psychic powers:
one that makes genestealers count as having frag granades and
one that hypnotises one model in CC vs a LD check
- may buy some biomorphs like toxic blood
> > Winged warriors, Gargoyles, Harpies:
> > A flying, Trygon-sized MC that drops Spore mines on units it flies
> > over.
>
> 'Thank God elephants don't fly...'
Gargoyles:
- attack with a poison called Blinding Venom
- cheap, have FANTASY poison attacks in melee
- Termagant profiles
- have bug throwers
Venators:
- beasts, WS5 W3 A4
- scything claws and wrenching claws with a few options for exchange
Good luck with that last one. I've a feeling Babelfish would be no
help.
> > Raveners: come with two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax
> > swarm: ammunition (3 flamer variants) chosen at the beginnig of the
> > game.
> flamer template weapons seem like a workable concept on Raveners
> with their deep strike abilties.
Raveners with double scything talons. Raveners have their weapon
symbiotes imbedded in their chests now rather than on their arms.
Raveners W3 but a 4+/5+ save that cannot be improved. Raveners have
Ld6
> > Carnifexes: In squads of three. Have to carry the same loadout. Cannot
> > boost their Initiative, cannot surpass 3+ Armour save.
>
> Seems almost reasonable by comparison to some of the other rules
> supposed so far.
>
> > If you buy them adrenaline,
> > that grants you I4 and S10. They still have 9 in their profile.
>
> Do they get the +T bonus to I on the charge?
Heh. What do you think? ;- )
"Carnifexes are T5, and can spit a S7 AP2 Blast bioplasma attack."
> > Trygon: WS6, S6, 6 Lifepoints and 6 attacks. 12in S6 AP5 A6 ranged
> > weapon.
> > If upgraded to a Alpha, it's 18in A12!
>
> Can you say 'Las-cannon bait'?
Can't hit what you can't see:
Units that deep strike can use a Trygon's burrowed entry point. Three
types of Trygon: Vanilla; Mawloc; Trygon Prime (Alpha, i.e. Synapse).
It doesnt sound like the Mawloc is a monstrous creature, as
Terminators got armour saves against it. Though units in reserve can
come out of the hole it just dug. So potential reappearing can make
several reserve exit points on the battlefield.
> > Tyrannofex: High Toughness MC w/ Fleshborer @S4 AP5 A20!
> Can I have a CHA-CH$NG? Oh Hell Yeah!
Testify, Brother Myrmidon!
"Tyrannofex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A3 Ld10 ASv2+
- has Texorin Bugs and the 3 following weapons (of which he can fire
two):
R48 S10 AP4 Assault 2
R36 S4 AP5 Assault 20
R Flame S5 AP4 Assault 1 - shot like the inferno cannon of the
hellhound"
> > Capsule cannon: 48in S10 AP4 A2.
>
> Holy freakin' Hell - a Nid ranged weapon that might actually kill
> Russ and Raiders at range
Whoah. Finally, a buff . . .
> I'd be willing to bet that this is one of those "Doesn't have an
> 'Official' model kit" units that has been mentioned.
Ref: Drop Spore, et al.
> GW speak for "run right out and buy BOTH a Tyrant AND a Fex
That's exactly the stance of the modeling section of the dex, afaik.
> CCHHAAA-CCCHHH$$$$NNNGGG!
Amen, Brudda!
> > The Capsule is WS/BS2 T5/6 W3 A3 w/ a 6in S6 A6 defense weapon.
> Oh cool! So it's a drop pod, and a 'mini death-wind' esque
> weapons pod all rolled into one. Hey, that seems fair.
Giant drop spore:
WS2 BS2 S6 T6 W3 I1 A2 Ld4 ASv5+
- deep strike, immobile, has tentacle whips
- may be bought as a transport option for non-winged/Trygon/Mawloc/
Venator
- may carry 20 infantry or one monstrous creature
- may shoot: R6 S6 AP - Assault 3
The spore (drop pod) is 40 points. If you drop a carni, you can't have
a brood of them, so it's 1 per heavy slot. Stealers and Gaunts can be
dropped, and the spore indeed uses most of the drop pod rules.
> I was going to ask why anyone would assault it rather than just
> assaulting the troops that bailed out of it
Ye olde 'start on & camp an Objective' ploy.
> the 4th Ed codex was WAY
> TO COMPLEX according to some of the precious little snow flakes
Ironically, this goes opposite the direction of Chaos'
"streamlining".
Yet even with its steaming mounds of minutiae, the result is the
same.
> Fart Proudly
Summary:
Weapons
Venom Cannon: 36in S6 AP4 Blast Assault 1
Heavy Venom Cannon: 48in S9 AP4 Large Blast Assault 1
Sting Strangler: 24in S4 AP6 Large Blast Assault 1
Barbed Strangler: 36in S6 AP4 Large Blast Assault 1
Fleshborer: 18in S4 AP5 Assault 1
Spinefist: 18in S4 AP5 Assault X Twin-linked
Sting Blaster?: 12in S5 AP- Assault 1
Spike Blaster?: 18in S5 AP5 Assault 4 (presumably a heavy sting
blaster)
Devourer: 18in S3 AP6 Assault 2
Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons, has 3 modes
Flamer S* AP- Assault 1 Poisoned(2+)
Flamer S5 AP5 Assault 1
Flamer S3 AP6 Assault 1 Rending
Biomorphs
Toxin Sacs: Squad gains 4+ poison
Adrenal Glands: Squad gains Furious Charge
Flesh Hooks: 12in S5 AP- Assault 2
Armor saves have different stats depending on type
Acid Blood: Upon losing a wound in CC, whoever caused the wound must
take an I test or suffer a power weapon wound.
Toxic Miasma: All units in CC range with this model must take a T
check or suffer a power weapon wound.
Lash Whips: All units in CC with this model have I1.
Boneswords: A model wounded by this weapon must pass a Ld test or
suffer Instant Death. If the wielder has a pair of boneswords, this
test is on 3d6.
Scything Talons: Reroll 1s to hit in close combat. 2 pairs may reroll
all rolls to hit.
Rending Claws: Give rending rule in CC.
Crushing Claws: +d3 attacks, strike at I1 in CC.
Regeneration: Same as current.
Wings: Same as current.
> few if any other gamers will be around to hear it
The new dex *sounds* interesting.
It just smells bad.
Playa
Myrmidon
@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 11, 8:49 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <9b8601d4-bd5c-46c3-b3da-13b2e5879e77
> > @k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> > My eyes!
>
> Mein auge:
>
> "Even as a Tyranid player I was baffled with the complexity of the new
> codex.
This just plain frightens me when it comes to certain segments of
'The Hobby' crowd. It's freaking D6 mechanics. And while some of the
rules are poorly written when it comes to their application, most simply
require basic reading comprehension to apply during the game without
undue mental effort. Here we have the 5th Ed codex, which by all
accounts sounds *LESS* complex than the 4th Ed version and we still have
phrases like 'baffled with the complexity' being tossed about.
DEAR GOD! Maybe my AoBR boxed set was incomplete - did I miss out on
the 'free frontal lobotomy kit' or something?
> But maybe it was only the german version. I'm german, but used
> to reading warhammer related stuff in english. I cannot give any infos
> on the guns though, because they have weird names in german and I'm
> not used to them. Sorry. Only that they ain't x+2 anymore."
>
Native German speaker, who can't translate their native language
rules into their English *IN SPITE OF* stating that they're used to the
rules in English! YYYYYAAAAAHHHHH!
> "Most of the stat stuff we saw a couple of days back is apparently
> from sheets that were shown in marketing briefings to staff of GW
> stores and independent specialists. Got confirmation of most of it
> from both my local GW and FLGS today. I mention this mostly because it
> amuses me to think that anyone posting that on warseer and making out
> that they're important is probably just a redshirt, or a regional
> manager at most."
>
> Revealed were more than 20 bestiary entries, including:
>
> Hormagaunts - 6pts basic
Hell, knocking them down to 9 or 10 points each would have made
them much more reasonable under the 4th Ed rules. 6 points? ...
> Termagants - 5 points basic
One point decline overall - wonder what options they lost.
> Gargoyle - 6pts
The fact that they're plastic now means folks might actually field
them. The fact that they're now cheap in game terms means folks might
actually field lots of them.
> Stealers - 14pts apiece
Seems low to me, even with the 'no 4+ save' crap rule.
> Warriors - 30pts basic
Approximately on par with current prices for improved WS and 2
sets of scything talons.
> Raveners - 30pts basic
Looks to be cheaper than the current version overall. Guess GW
really wants to sell those plastics.
> Biovore- 45pts
Current Bio-vore is 50 with basic frag spores only. Definitely
beefed up in terms of effectiveness on the battlefield (better anti-
infantry, but less effective potentially against vehicles), and less
expensive. Now if only the current models didn't look like they were
perpetually constipated.
> Deathleaper - 140pts basic
It comes with it's own beret and a cheesy accent. *Mustache
optional.
> Hive gaurd - 50pts apiece
Ho-hum model, and ineffective against AV14. What a sales combo!
> Tyrant guard 60 pts
15 point cost increase.
> Venomthropes 55pts
Mobile cover save - guess what's getting target first?
> Mawloc - 170pts
Dubious rules, worse looks.
> Trygon - 200pts
Las & Plas magnet.
> Swarmlord - 280pts
This model concept sponsored by Wisconsin and the United Dairy
Association.
> Carnifex - 160pts, Stranglethorn cannon - whatever that is.
>
Barbed Strangler... Base Fex is 85 now, but the stats are low.
Though I get the impression that Fex are now going to be T5 so that they
can be insta-killed by S10 weapons?
> You can give more creatures regeneration now.
Speaking from experience - regeneration = fucking useless waste of
points. PERIOD. Even on Fexes with W5 it routinely fails to perform
in any meaningful way during the majority of games.
> Tyranids never have additional close combat weapons.
What? You mean they can't pick up bolters and chain swords???
> Grapplinghooks (Flesh Hooks) are R6 S6 Ap- Assault.
Why? Of all the brainless, hopeless, dickless moves - why don't
we take a useful bio-morph equivalent of wargear (I.e. frag grenades)
and turn it into YET ANOTHER SHORT RANGED SHOOTING ATTACK! Oh cool, now
it's just like our computer game - how 733t! Because if there's one
thing the Nids have an over abundance of, it's wargear equivalents. And
if there's one thing they lack - it's short ranged shooting attacks...
Fookin' ass-hats.
> No army-wide MTC, but Raveners and Hormagaunts have it as standard.
> Armor is called differently. Basic armor (6+) is "Chitin" and 4+ is
> called "Verstärkter Carapax" (Carapace), etc.
Fluff supporting rules would be fine - if they didn't routinely
gut the fluff every other week.
>
> > > Shadow in the Warp is now 12in range on 3d6,
> > It wasn't that great when it was unlimited range
>
> Free is still kinda great since avg rolls are >10. Rants certainly
> won't suffer:
>
Yeah, but the range is point blank. And how are you coming up
with average rolls greater than 10? According to the rules - it's
highest 2 out of 3D6 - not total of 3D6.
> New Tyrant power called Paroxysm. Upgrades include Ancient Adversary
> which increases your success with reserve rolls, and another one that
> gives preferred enemy to units in 6in. The 4-Bonesword-Tyrant gains a
> 4++ save in CC. A Tyrant allows a single Hormagaunt brood to
> Outflank.
>
I'm already savoring the thought of every game where my opponents
use the 'turtle in the middle' deployment strategy EVERY TIME.
> > > Perils of the Warp on double 1 or 6.
> > that just flies straight in the face of all the previous fluff
>
> I'd presumed that was for enemy Psykers.
Yes, it was for enemy psykers and it still violates the fluff
which explains that the Nids overshadow the warp to the point where both
psy powers AND extra dimensional beings (perils of the warp) are
eliminated.
>
> "Tyranids don't suffer Perils when rolling 11 or 66 on Psychic
> powers"
>
But enemy psykers now do? Hey - that's extremely fair.
> Zoantrope: same profile only 3 wounds, 5+ armor, 3+ ward save, 2 Psi:
> Warp Lightning: R24 S5 AP3 Explosive 1
> Warp Lance: R18 S10 AP1 Assault 1, Lance
So, can they be synapse still? Or did they lose that in spite of
their 'over developed' brains? (And 3+ invulnerable save? What have
they been munching on a steady diet of termie armor and storm shields?)
>
> A special Zo that was about 90pts with a 5in blast weapon SX DS1? (X
> is the number of life points and it can get up to 10!) . Every model
> killed by this creature increases its wounds by 1 but shooting its
> weapon costs 3 wounds.
Great, so now we're blatantly lifting mediocre rules from the WFB
rules set. Can my tyrant have a manticore for a mount please?
> Also there is an HQ model that spawns 3d6
> Gaunts every movement phase. If you roll doubles, you cannot spawn any
> more gaunts for the rest of the game.
It's good to see that GW isn't still bitter about that whole
Blizzard / Starcraft franchise thing...
>
> Venomthrope:
> - 1-3, Zoanthrope profile only with W3 A2
> - has tentacle whips, toxic Miasma, 2+ poison
> - all tyranid units within 6in gain a 5+ cover save and defensive
> grenades
> - charging enemy units test as for dangerous terrain
>
> > I thought Gav wasn't working for GW any more
>
> He's no longer a freeloader - he's a freelancer.
> The distinction is subtle, but the effect is the same.
I stand corrected. Sigh...
>
> > > Trygon (200pt WS5 W6 A6) cannot assault a unit he Deeps Strikes onto.
> > > Follows the same rules as Drop Pods, i.e. stop within 1in.
> > Have to see the rules for this in action, but I get the feeling
> > that it's going to be over the top
>
> You mean like:
>
> Trygon WS4 BS4 S6 T6 W6 I4 A6 Ld8 ASv3+
> - deep strike, fleet
> - leaves behind a tunnel through which other units may deep strike in
> subsequent turns
> - may NOT charge the turn he deep strikes
> - bio electric field is R12 S6 AP- Assault 6, may be upgraded to
> alpha:
> - synapse, Ld10, shadow-o-warp, bioelectric field has Assault 12
>
And no 'crew shaken' / weapon destroyed / vehicle explodes results
either. On the other hand, even an assault cannon has a reasonable
chance to wound this thing.
> Mawloc: WS4 BS0 S6 T6 W6 I4 A3 Ld9 ASv3+
> - may deep strike, appearing under a unit: place a S6 AP3 B5, then
> move all surviving models aside as it is not placed in CC
> - has fall back and sprint rule
> - if he is not in CC in your next movement, he may burrow again, to
> automatically reappear in the following movement phase
>
So at least opponents will have a chance to shoot at it. Still
seems extremely unfair to have an MC that can deep strike multiple
times. I thought that schtick belonged to the Necrons.
> > > Synapse Creatures:
> > > Units within 12in are Fearless. No eternal warrior.
> > So, did they get rid of the immune to insta-kill rules, or simply
> > remake it with this?
>
> Yeah, "Eternal Warrior" tested darker in focus than "Immunity".
> When its grim sparkliness was confirmed, it was made offal.
Fixed last word for you...
>
> > > Melee creatures move
> > > as fast as possible to the next enemy, while shooting creatures go for
> > > the next cover and shoot at the nearest enemies.
> > This might be a decent compromise. Have to wait and see
>
> I see it as what you'd want the little ones to do anyway.
> Besides, how are they NOT in CC when their minders are being killed?
>
> "Instinctive behavior is split into 2 classes:
> Lurkers: take cover and shoot at the nearest target
> Hunters: always move and assault nearest enemy"
>
Still can mean your troops move off of objectives at critical
moments, but not as bad as 'flee towards the nearest synapse' rule. I
can see some of this being 'needed' in the eyes of GW due to the
randomness of reserves rules (especially if you want to do a seeding
swarm type army).
> > > Scything Talons
> > it'll certainly make those 2000 points or more tournaments
> > MUCH quicker to play
>
> Especially if all the armies are Nids ...
>
> > > Wow - that's freaking overkill too!
>
> I'm beginning to sense a pattern ...
>
> > How am I supposed to get 9 Fexs
> > with up to 13 attacks each on the table now?
>
> Sadly, 9 in 1500pts is still "doable".
>
> Carnifex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A4 Ld6 ASv3+
> - 1-3, expensive
> - they may buy freaking EVERYTHING, but no more profile upgrades
I keep hearing that the Fexes will be T5 and subject to insta-kill
versus S10 weapons. I can see my friend fielding my Demolisher against
me a lot if that is indeed the case.
>
> > > Injector grants Instant Death on a to wound roll of 6.
> > Does that mean I have to make the 'Vroom! Vroom!' sound effect if
> > my Nids use injectors? I wonder what the Nitrous Oxide setup or the
> > lift kit will do for them?
>
> In this case, those are German "Adrenalin Injectors".
> Either way, I'd rather be blown ...
Aww-man. And here I was looking forward to making 'Mad Max - the
road WARRIOR' with injectors. Bonus points, modeling a warrior with a
knee brace.
>
> > > Hive Tyrant: I6, WS8 Scything talons, Tentacle Whip and Bonesword.
> > > Might be given wings or heavy carapace (2+ armour save)
> > WS8?!? What the Gav...
>
> Hive Tyrant: Old profile, No ward save
> - Shadows of warp: All psychers using their powers within 12in must
> roll 3d6, double 6 or 1 will result in a Perils attack
> - comes with scyting claws and can equip about any weapon and morph in
> the book
> - may have two of the following psychic powers for free:
> The Horror: One enemy unit within 18in must take a panic test
> Life leech: R18 unit receives d3 S3 hits no ASv, regains 1W for every
> wound caused
> warp scream: R12 enemy units WS/BS reduced to 1 for a round
> Dominate: Hive tyrant synapse range is 18in for one round
> - May buy any number of these abilities:
> Horror: Units wishing to charge or shoot must pass a Ld check
> Vicious: A Troops unit may flank and you get +1 to all reserve rolls
> Ancient enemy: All Tyranid units within 6in have preferred enemy rule
> - guards stayed pretty much the same except biomorphs, and they have 3
> wounds
What? No 'Jaws of the World Wolf'? We've been ripped off! ;)
>
> > > Alpha Warrior:
> > > WS6, which he passes-on to any unit of warriors he joins.
> > Velveda - not really cheese, but it would like to be.
>
> Velveeta Warrior: WS6 BS5 S5 T5 W4 I5 A4 Ld10 ASv4+
> - synapse creature, shadow of warp
> - may buy almost everything except the REALLY heavy stuff
> - tyranid warriors within 12in may use his WS and I
And they get to count as troops? Oi!
<snippage...>
> Harpy (Harridan?):
> WS3 BS4 S6 T5 W4 I5 A3 Ld7 ASv4+
> - monstrous creature, flyer, twinlinked thornstrangler
> - every Unit he charges gains -1 I
> - may drop three spore mines on any unit he flies over
>
> Spore mines:
> - 3-6, deep striking S4 AP4 B5
>
> Biovores:
> - cheap, each may shoot one spore mine that explode as above
Well, it's a boost to the vore's usefulness as anti-infantry, but
pretty much ends their use for anti-vehicle except maybe for hits on
speeders / open topped.
>
> Pyrovore:
> - Biovore profile only with W3, S5 heavy flamer
> - when killed outright explodes in flaming acid and damages everyone
> around
> _ ignores armor saves in close combat. It hasn't got a super fighty
> stat line, though.
Why couldn't they have made a new corresponding Biovore model to
replace the butt-ugly 3rd/4th Ed. versions?
>
> > > Each Hive Tyrant may be given a Tyrant guard.
> > One only? Not 1-3?
>
> I presumed 1 Unit. All I have so far:
>
> Tyrant Guard:
> - may buy some biomorpgs like wrenching claws and stuff
> - may carry all weapons except the REALLY heavy stuff
They've got the whole line of 'Mr. Good Wrenching' claws and air
driven adapter tools... (I know that means rending claws, but I love
the 'colorful' translations.)
>
> > > Hive Guard: 1-3 @BS4. Weapons are 24in S8 AP4 and A2.
> > So, same S8 as the Venom Cannon which is glance only against AV14,
> > and 2/3rds the range. OH BOY! WHAT A BARGAIN!
>
> Well, that will depend on the Unit cost, really.
A 24 inch ranged indirect fire weapon that STILL can't penetrate
most heavy armor is a must buy among the new Nid weapons choices
available because? I'm honestly failing to see what roll it could have
that a Fex armed with a barbed strangler couldn't do better.
>
> > > Lictors: 1-3 as a unit. Deployed like marbo. Still grant +1 to reserve
> > > rolls. Deep striking units do not scatter if deployed within 6in, as
> > > long as he was on the table for at least one turn.
> > Along with 3 wounds and lower points cost?
>
> Lictors:
> - have 3 wounds, move through cover
> - give +1 to reserve rolls and act as a teleprt homer within 6in
> - appear anywhere on the table when available but may not move or
> shoot that turn
> - has catcher claws and AP and scything claws
>
Sounds like they can still assault the turn they are revealed?
And no more 'limited to deploying only in area terrain' since GW
routinely has tournament layouts with little or no area terrain.
> > > Ymgarls:
> > > 5-10. no Broodlord. Genestealers that morph: they may increase their
> > > Attacks, Toughness or strength characteristic at the beginning of each
> > > close combat phase.
> >
> > Oh goody! The Nid version of Chaos mutants with random abilities.
>
> I take it from the wording, it's at player discretion.
> Chaos gets lampshaded by GW's lazy "d6 discretion".
>
Wait - are you trying to imply that 'Chaotic' *doesn't* always
mean 'totally fookin' random'?
> > > They have the rule "hibernation": note one piece
> > > of terrain. when the genestealers become available, they are placed in
> > > this piece of terrain. they may move, shoot and charge.
> > Wait? WTF?!? How the hell do you overlook an ENTIRE BROOD of
> > hibernating stealers?
>
> Doi! They're invisible! Like Lictors when the clover's in bloom ...
Brother Sgt. Bobicus: Why look at that - half a dozen large 'rocks' and
they're pulsating like they're almost alive or something. There's
something you don't see every day...
>
> > Wait - did he say "shoot" - apparently they're now armed with bolters
>
> Brood upgrade guys get Psi shots, iirc.
Wait, what am I thinking - that's right. Flesh hooks are now a
shooting attack, just like the damned PC game.
> > > Death Leaper
> > WS9 - seriously? SERIOUSLY?
>
> There's more:
>
> "Deathleapers decrease the Ld of a chosen model, influence enemy
> models in a 12in radius: eg only d6in Mv in difficult terrain."
>
Wow, we get cheese with frosting AND sprinkles. My! We are
special.
> > > Troops:
> > > Hormagaunts: 10-30 @WS3 S3 I5 A2 Infantry.
> > > May be given poison glands and adrenalin.
> >
> > Well, there weren't that many viable bio-morph combos with their
> > current price costs
>
> I think this was meant to read 'Termagants' -
>
> "Termagants: No longer may charge 12in."
I never thought that they could. I thought that only the Gaunts
counted as beasts for the 12 inch charge.
>
> > > Gaunts:
> > > S4 AP5 A1. For each 10 gaunts, one may be upgraded with a S2
> > > flamethrower that wounds against the strength characteristic.
> > An S2 flamer template weapon that wounds against the S characteristic?
> > So it's a weird version of the strangle web gun in other words.
>
> "Hormagaunts have two individual weapons:
> Toxic stinger: R18 S3 AP6 Assault 1
So now they have weapons with 1.5 times the range of termagants?
WTF.
> Grappling choker: RFlamer S2 AP- Assault 1, wounds against S not T
> - every unit allows one Tervigon to be played as core (Troops)".
The strangle web template makes more sense with them since their
goal is to get into HTH unlike the gants typically.
<more snippage...>
> > > Genestealers: As before, fewer options. Point cost lower than Grey
> > > hunters, no way to boost their armour save. Have infiltration and
> > > fleet.
> >
> > Ok, no 4+ save? Then who cares if they're cheaper, they're still
> > going to die in droves as bolter fodder. I can see why they NEED
> > infiltration.
>
> Genestealers: same profile, not subject to instinctive behavior
> - may buy a symbiarch for almost 50 points who has more WS S T W A and
> Ld.
> - may have one of two psychic powers:
> one that makes genestealers count as having frag granades and
> one that hypnotises one model in CC vs a LD check
> - may buy some biomorphs like toxic blood
>
Why, oh why, did they fuck up flesh hooks? Bunch of clueless
putz.
<ker-snip>
> > > Raveners: come with two pairs of scything talons. May have a thorax
> > > swarm: ammunition (3 flamer variants) chosen at the beginnig of the
> > > game.
> > flamer template weapons seem like a workable concept on Raveners
> > with their deep strike abilties.
>
> Raveners with double scything talons. Raveners have their weapon
> symbiotes imbedded in their chests now rather than on their arms.
> Raveners W3 but a 4+/5+ save that cannot be improved. Raveners have
> Ld6
LD6 - that's mighty handy with a unit that's designed to deep
strike well ahead of the Nid advance. Brilliant! So, do they count as
a 'shooty unit' or 'HTH' for 'instinct behavior' rules?
>
> > > Carnifexes: In squads of three. Have to carry the same loadout. Cannot
> > > boost their Initiative, cannot surpass 3+ Armour save.
> >
> > Seems almost reasonable by comparison to some of the other rules
> > supposed so far.
> >
> > > If you buy them adrenaline,
> > > that grants you I4 and S10. They still have 9 in their profile.
> >
> > Do they get the +T bonus to I on the charge?
>
> Heh. What do you think? ;- )
I think it's only a matter of weeks before John Hwang will be
fielding a Tyranid army featuring a 'shades of black' color scheme.
>
> "Carnifexes are T5, and can spit a S7 AP2 Blast bioplasma attack."
What, GW isn't selling enough of the HTH termies? How about that
3+ storm shield invulnerable save!
>
> > > Trygon: WS6, S6, 6 Lifepoints and 6 attacks. 12in S6 AP5 A6 ranged
> > > weapon.
> > > If upgraded to a Alpha, it's 18in A12!
> >
> > Can you say 'Las-cannon bait'?
>
> Can't hit what you can't see:
>
> Units that deep strike can use a Trygon's burrowed entry point. Three
> types of Trygon: Vanilla; Mawloc; Trygon Prime (Alpha, i.e. Synapse).
So, who would field anything but an Alpha if one is going to use
Raveners?
> It doesnt sound like the Mawloc is a monstrous creature, as
> Terminators got armour saves against it.
Butt-ugly AND not a MC? Fail.
> Though units in reserve can
> come out of the hole it just dug. So potential reappearing can make
> several reserve exit points on the battlefield.
Looks like I'll be making more crater terrain. Have to gear up
and start selling them on Ebay. Dual purpose - artillery shell holes /
Nid deep strike points. Woohoo.
<snipped Tyrannofex & drop pods...>
>
> > the 4th Ed codex was WAY
> > TO COMPLEX according to some of the precious little snow flakes
>
> Ironically, this goes opposite the direction of Chaos'
> "streamlining".
> Yet even with its steaming mounds of minutiae, the result is the
> same.
>
> > Fart Proudly
>
> Summary:
>
> Weapons
> Venom Cannon: 36in S6 AP4 Blast Assault 1
Maybe on a warrior. Maybe.
> Heavy Venom Cannon: 48in S9 AP4 Large Blast Assault 1
And still the crappy glancing rules mentioned before? Meh!
> Sting Strangler: 24in S4 AP6 Large Blast Assault 1
Deathspitter maybe? Decent on warriors.
> Barbed Strangler: 36in S6 AP4 Large Blast Assault 1
S6? Wow - now even the strangler sucks against armor.
> Fleshborer: 18in S4 AP5 Assault 1
Well, the range increase is nice. Do they still get living ammo?
> Spinefist: 18in S4 AP5 Assault X Twin-linked
Wonder how much more expensive they are than FB's? Otherwise why not
use them by default?
> Sting Blaster?: 12in S5 AP- Assault 1
I have no idea what this one is...
> Spike Blaster?: 18in S5 AP5 Assault 4 (presumably a heavy sting
> blaster)
I thought maybe this was the old 'spike rifle' but I guess not.
> Devourer: 18in S3 AP6 Assault 2
Glad to see there's still a bit of flex in gant design.
> Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons, has 3 modes
> Flamer S* AP- Assault 1 Poisoned(2+)
> Flamer S5 AP5 Assault 1
> Flamer S3 AP6 Assault 1 Rending
I gather this is the pyro-vore's weapon? I'm dubious of the
effectiveness of a stand alone critter armed with a point-blank range
template weapon. It'd be one thing if it was the Nid equivalent of a
Hellhound. But it's not.
>
> Biomorphs
> Toxin Sacs: Squad gains 4+ poison
It's of limited use compared to the toxin sac +1S upgrade.
> Adrenal Glands: Squad gains Furious Charge
While the +1S on the charge is nice, the +1 to Init isn't going to
do much good since it seems that 'frag grenades' a.k.a. flesh hooks have
been all but removed (only stealers have frag equivalents) from the
Tyranid armory. Any by the most brain dead opponents are going to be
using cover to strike at I10 and effectively blunting a Tyranid charge.
Unless of course you maximize squad sizes. CHA-CH$NG!
> Flesh Hooks: 12in S5 AP- Assault 2
Because the Nids NEEDED more short range assault weapons. Right...
> Armor saves have different stats depending on type
So they just gave names to 6+, 5+, 4+ saves, etc. Meh.
> Acid Blood: Upon losing a wound in CC, whoever caused the wound must
> take an I test or suffer a power weapon wound.
Seems like excessively fiddly rules for mediocre results. For designers
that seem to be desperate to increase model counts ($$$) while at the
same time decrease overall time to complete a game, this is not the way
to do it.
> Toxic Miasma: All units in CC range with this model must take a T
> check or suffer a power weapon wound.
I could see this on one of the HUGE bugs like a Malefactor. But on a
Fex or Tyrant, this is just fookin' overkill. It'll drop IG, Eldar, etc
like flies.
> Lash Whips: All units in CC with this model have I1.
How the hell does this work on the charge against units in cover. Wanna
bet the rules description for this is going to be seriously lacking in
the 'we considered the overall effect on the game' department..
> Boneswords: A model wounded by this weapon must pass a Ld test or
> suffer Instant Death. If the wielder has a pair of boneswords, this
> test is on 3d6.
So now it'll be a race between the psykers in HTH to see who can 'insta-
kill' who first.
> Scything Talons: Reroll 1s to hit in close combat. 2 pairs may reroll
> all rolls to hit.
Which seems like a way to encourage 'vanilla MC' usage, but might be
rather over the top on warriors.
> Rending Claws: Give rending rule in CC.
So no real change here. Which is ok. The old extra D6 on vehicle
assaults was to much. D3 is a lot more reasonable while still making
Land Raiders a force to be reckoned with as far as the Nids are
concerned.
> Crushing Claws: +d3 attacks, strike at I1 in CC.
Why would anyone bother with I1 for D3 (average 1 to 2 additional
attacks) just to attack last? With no immunity to insta-kill, I sure
won't be using these.
> Regeneration: Same as current.
Unless it's a lot cheaper than the current version - I'll largely
be ignoring that bio-morph as I can pass a basic math and statistic
course.
> Wings: Same as current.
Well, at least they didn't hose flying warriors by taking a
weapons slot for wings as was rumored previously.
> The new dex *sounds* interesting.
> It just smells bad.
>
That's going in the sig file...
Myr
--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."
-- Moramarth
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 12, 2:19 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <e63fa136-51c4-46d5-99a0-cbd11e365030
> @j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> while some of the
> rules are poorly written when it comes to their application, most simply
> require basic reading comprehension to apply during the game
No, rules are easy - it's GW's Codex *layouts* that confuse.
> > Tyranids never have additional close combat weapons.
> they can't pick up bolters and chain swords?
I suspect this means no Charge bonus.
> > Grapplinghooks (Flesh Hooks) are R6 S6 Ap- Assault.
> Why?
Because Frag effects are to be covered under a different rule.
> > Zoantrope
> So, can they be synapse still?
The pattern seems to be "old" MCs made cheaper for squadron$.
Then an "Alpha" ver$ion of these w/ Synapse.
> > Trygon
> even an assault cannon has a reasonable
> chance to wound this thing
Well, it says "may not charge".
Can it "Run" back into its "tunnel"?
Can it later "Go to Ground" off-board?
> unfair to have an MC that can deep strike multiple times
Multiple DS/ Barrage/ Reserve Beacon drops? Maybe a smidge.
> > > > Alpha Warrior:
> And they get to count as troops?
No, Alphas are non-Troop "Character" types, afaik:
HQ
Swarmlord: Alpha Tyrant, two enhanced boneswords, 4++ in CC
- May use two psychic powers per turn
- may give one unit within 12in counterstrike, furious assault or
sharp senses for 1 round
Terror of Mantrax: Alpha Gargoyle, shoots at enemies, turning them
into ripper swarms
- every enemy non-tank model that flanks must pass a T test or become
a ripper swarm
EL
Horror of Malanai: T4 Alpha Warrior, Sx where x is its number of
Wounds
- Scream: Enemy units within 6in must pass a 3d6 Ld test, or lose the
amount of Wounds by which they fail.
- Storm: Fires multiple Sx DS 3 bolts.
- Whenever he causes wounds in any way he gains one wound up to 10
Death Leaper: Alpha Lictor, Disappear rule like Marbo
- VERY good at causing terror and backstabbing
HS
One Eye: Alpha Fex, Regen on a 5+, Units within 12in may use his Ld
- Gets additional basic attacks and sometimes goes berserk
> I'm honestly failing to see what roll it could have
Intentionally or not, the dex repurposes a lot of Units.
This is going to mean a long 'unlearning' process for many.
> large 'rocks' and they're pulsating
"I'm tellin' ya, man: there's somethin' movin' an' it ain' us!"
- Pvt. Hudson from _Aliens_, 1986
> it's only a matter of weeks before John Hwang will be
> fielding a Tyranid army featuring a 'shades of black' color
Hive Fleet Primer, featuring the "We'll Be Black" army special rule.
> > Sting Blaster?: 12in S5 AP- Assault 1
> I have no idea
Spinefist?
> > Spike Blaster?: 18in S5 AP5 Assault 4
> I thought maybe this was the old 'spike rifle'
Deathspitter?
> > Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons
> > Flamer
> I gather this is the pyro-vore's weapon?
I think it's just the Acid Spray option for a lot of bugs.
> It'd be one thing if it was the Nid equivalent of a
> Hellhound
Pyro is being characterized as a Basilisk equivalent.
Acid Spray is more a "defensive" weapon option here.
> Seems like excessively fiddly rules for mediocre results
I'm more concerned about rules that *aren't* being mentioned.
I got a chilling vibe from those profiles with Fleet in them.
Others have MTC noted like it's not an army-wide trait.
And Drop Spores? I seriously do *not* want Codex: Mech Nids.
> > Regeneration
> I'll largely be ignoring that bio-morph as I can pass
> a basic math and statistic course
Yeah, about that - another thing I've noticed:
Without Number isn't being mentioned in these leaks, so ...
But there's a new Ripper model included with the ravener sprue!
Playa
Doctor Rock
In article <e63fa136-51c4-46d5-99a0-cbd11e365030
@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
Hell, knocking them down to 9 or 10 points each would have made
them much more reasonable under the 4th Ed rules. 6 points? ...
* i believe they are only WS3 now, though.
> Termagants - 5 points basic
One point decline overall - wonder what options they lost.
* AFAIK they haven't-- they're just less attractive options now you can get
the bigger units cheaper (Warriors as Troops etc), so they've been reduced
in points to keep them competitive.
meanwhile GW will continue to deny there's any such thing as "codex creep."
> Warriors - 30pts basic
Approximately on par with current prices for improved WS and 2
sets of scything talons.
* bear in mind they also get 3 Wounds and a 4+ save now (confirmed)
> Biovore- 45pts
Current Bio-vore is 50 with basic frag spores only. Definitely
beefed up in terms of effectiveness on the battlefield (better anti-
infantry, but less effective potentially against vehicles), and less
expensive. Now if only the current models didn't look like they were
perpetually constipated.
* oh, there's a new one. which also looks constipated.
> Hive gaurd - 50pts apiece
Ho-hum model, and ineffective against AV14. What a sales combo!
* but dude... it's a ZOAT. am i seriously the only one who's noticed??
> Grapplinghooks (Flesh Hooks) are R6 S6 Ap- Assault.
Why? Of all the brainless, hopeless, dickless moves - why don't
we take a useful bio-morph equivalent of wargear (I.e. frag grenades)
and turn it into YET ANOTHER SHORT RANGED SHOOTING ATTACK!
* and why the fuck is it S6??
> Also there is an HQ model that spawns 3d6
> Gaunts every movement phase. If you roll doubles, you cannot spawn any
> more gaunts for the rest of the game.
It's good to see that GW isn't still bitter about that whole
Blizzard / Starcraft franchise thing...
* LOL. seriously, L'ed and O L
> Carnifex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A4 Ld6 ASv3+
> - 1-3, expensive
> - they may buy freaking EVERYTHING, but no more profile upgrades
I keep hearing that the Fexes will be T5 and subject to insta-kill
versus S10 weapons.
* not that i'm aware of, via my admittedly second-hand codex review.
> Pyrovore:
> - Biovore profile only with W3, S5 heavy flamer
> - when killed outright explodes in flaming acid and damages everyone
> around
> _ ignores armor saves in close combat. It hasn't got a super fighty
> stat line, though.
Why couldn't they have made a new corresponding Biovore model to
replace the butt-ugly 3rd/4th Ed. versions?
* they have. it's still butt-ugly.
> It doesnt sound like the Mawloc is a monstrous creature, as
> Terminators got armour saves against it.
Butt-ugly AND not a MC? Fail.
* actually they got their 5+ INVULNERABLE saves against it, not their armour
saves. it is a monstrous creature.
> Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons, has 3 modes
> Flamer S* AP- Assault 1 Poisoned(2+)
> Flamer S5 AP5 Assault 1
> Flamer S3 AP6 Assault 1 Rending
I gather this is the pyro-vore's weapon? I'm dubious of the
effectiveness of a stand alone critter armed with a point-blank range
template weapon. It'd be one thing if it was the Nid equivalent of a
Hellhound. But it's not.
* it's clearly trying to be the nid 'equivalent' of several things. having
3 separate profiles for a single ranged weapon (which is only used by a
SINGLE UNIT out of what, 30?) is a pretty textbook example of how NOT to
write rules.
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 13, 3:43 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> a pretty textbook example of how NOT to write rules
That depends on the *purpose* of the writing.
Ref: Nid player BL's op ed:
+++
As information of the codex comes in, we find out that the entire army
has been overhauled completely, including effectiveness decreases to
almost every single standard option previously available.
By a "coincidence," all the new options (while still being overpriced
ingame) are the most tantalizing ones.
Also, we are given a laundry list of "must-have" units that can only
be built by purchasing multiples of the most expensive kits in the
army and combining them in various fashions.
It's actually rather insulting.
I don't care about spending money to expand my army or to update my
army. I'm okay with that. New Orks came out, Ork players had to buy
more boyz. New IG came out, IG players had to buy more tanks. I do
care about having to replace my army because twin-linked weapons are
no longer an option for warriors, spinegaunts switched places with
termagants, and carnifexes doubled in points without so much as a stat
increase to compensate. There's a big difference between adding onto
10 years worth of Tyranids and replacing 10 years worth of Tyranids.
You can't keep customers by treating them this way.
+++
A second glitch, possibly a Chinese fire drill, has hit the print
shop.
This has further delayed GW's "just in time" Codex production.
Yet all GW writes about is Space Marine releases for January.
Playa
Myrmidon
mal...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>
> "Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.258db6ac5...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <e63fa136-51c4-46d5-99a0-cbd11e365030
> @j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
> >
> > Hormagaunts - 6pts basic
>
> Hell, knocking them down to 9 or 10 points each would have made
> them much more reasonable under the 4th Ed rules. 6 points? ...
>
> * i believe they are only WS3 now, though.
So, they lost 1 in the WS department and price dropped by half?
>
> > Termagants - 5 points basic
>
> One point decline overall - wonder what options they lost.
>
> * AFAIK they haven't-- they're just less attractive options now you can get
> the bigger units cheaper (Warriors as Troops etc), so they've been reduced
> in points to keep them competitive.
>
> meanwhile GW will continue to deny there's any such thing as "codex creep."
>
Oddly enough, at this point I'm inclined to agree with GW. This
is NOT codex creep. THIS IS flat out EDITION CREEP. Looking at the
core rules changes and every new codex that has come out after the new
book - it's becoming incredibly obvious that the goal is two-fold.
Increase the lethality of most of the combat mechanics* in order to
decrease overall play time needed to finish up a game at X points value
per side. The end result of this being an increase in sales of BOTH
high dollar models (such as vehicle kits & MC's) AND massed troops units
(Orks, IG, Nids anyone?) wherever possible.
*The one exception to the rule here is the vehicle glancing hit table
where it is now no longer possible to destroy a vehicle with a single
glancing hit. This makes Mechanized armies all the more attractive.
Cha-Ch$ng!
I wouldn't be so annoyed about edition creep in 5th Ed. were it not for
two serious issues.
Issue 1. Player's already have a means of fighting larger battles with
massed armies that include incredibly lethal combat mechanics. It's
called Apocalypse, and the rules set is hideously expensive when one
looks at the number of pages of actual rules versus overall cost. Add
in cost of new templates, over-priced Forgeworld add-on books, and
highly over-priced Forgeworld models, and it's pretty clear that there's
already a GW based revenue stream for this area to begin with for
players interested in going that route.
Where Apoc fails is its lack of overall balance - GW knows that it
can't use this rules set in competitive play. And GT's do net GW a lot
of money. No, not in the form of revenue from the events themselves,
which have apparently not been rolling in phat loot. But rather from
gamers model purchasing drive when creating 'unique' and competitive
armies. If I were a betting man, I'd be willing to bet that the money
spent by gamers to build Forgeworld laden 'uber-armies' of minis with
show quality paint jobs for competitive tournaments every year easily
ends up in the six figure range. And this would be on top of the normal
GW 'friendly gaming' players who also own one or more armies.
Issue 2. 'The dribble method'. GW has for years been EXTREMELY SLOW
about releasing updated codex for each army once a new rules set comes
out. While I'm sure there are indeed 'real world' issues with releasing
them all at once in terms of production costs and production capacity.
But it is without a doubt that the number one reason behind this
practice is $ale$ (sales). It should go without say that great numbers
of gamers suffer from ADOS (Attention Deficit Ohhh! Shiny...) which
results in one hell of a lot of 'impulse buying' and a hefty profit for
GW. It's understandable that they want to draw out the release of new
models and new codex over time to increase the number of sales and
impulse buyers. After all, gamers only have so much desposible income
at any given moment, and by spreading the new release out over longer
periods of time GW definitely increases the amount of 'Ohhhh - Shiny!'
sales they make. But when a codex can go 10 years and 2 editions of the
rules before seeing an updated codex and new models - that's a problem.
One would think GW would have learned a little something about their fan
base by now (i.e. it's not all 12 to 15 year olds who buy stuff and then
lose interest in a few months when they discover it's work to build and
carefully paint the models.) Yet they continue to view their customer
base as a disposable and renewable resource. Which is true to a point -
but only to a point.
> > Warriors - 30pts basic
>
> Approximately on par with current prices for improved WS and 2
> sets of scything talons.
>
> * bear in mind they also get 3 Wounds and a 4+ save now (confirmed)
>
And they'll be a favorite target for las-cannons now that they can
be insta-killed. Who wouldn't want to knock off a 3 wound model with
one shot wherever possible?
> > Biovore- 45pts
>
> Current Bio-vore is 50 with basic frag spores only. Definitely
> beefed up in terms of effectiveness on the battlefield (better anti-
> infantry, but less effective potentially against vehicles), and less
> expensive. Now if only the current models didn't look like they were
> perpetually constipated.
>
> * oh, there's a new one. which also looks constipated.
I like the pyro-vore. It isn't exactly 'stunning', but it's a
heck of a lot better than the 3rd or 4th Ed bio-vore. Or did I miss
announcement that they're releasing a new bio-vore model?
>
> > Hive gaurd - 50pts apiece
>
> Ho-hum model, and ineffective against AV14. What a sales combo!
>
> * but dude... it's a ZOAT. am i seriously the only one who's noticed??
>
No, you're not the only one. And it's still a ho-hum mini with
less than desirable rules. "Wow, I can hid out of site AND still not
penetrate your armor. Woot!"
> > Grapplinghooks (Flesh Hooks) are R6 S6 Ap- Assault.
>
> Why? Of all the brainless, hopeless, dickless moves - why don't
> we take a useful bio-morph equivalent of wargear (I.e. frag grenades)
> and turn it into YET ANOTHER SHORT RANGED SHOOTING ATTACK!
>
> * and why the fuck is it S6??
Maybe they aim for the eyes and nostrils, or perhaps the groin?
"Don't tase me Bro!"
>
> > Also there is an HQ model that spawns 3d6
> > Gaunts every movement phase. If you roll doubles, you cannot spawn any
> > more gaunts for the rest of the game.
>
> It's good to see that GW isn't still bitter about that whole
> Blizzard / Starcraft franchise thing...
>
> * LOL. seriously, L'ed and O L
>
I'm looking forward to the 'vespian gas' terrain piece myself...
> > Carnifex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A4 Ld6 ASv3+
> > - 1-3, expensive
> > - they may buy freaking EVERYTHING, but no more profile upgrades
>
> I keep hearing that the Fexes will be T5 and subject to insta-kill
> versus S10 weapons.
>
> * not that i'm aware of, via my admittedly second-hand codex review.
>
I'm still uncertain too - but it is one rumor I keep hearing
contradictory information on.
> > Pyrovore:
> > - Biovore profile only with W3, S5 heavy flamer
> > - when killed outright explodes in flaming acid and damages everyone
> > around
> > _ ignores armor saves in close combat. It hasn't got a super fighty
> > stat line, though.
>
> Why couldn't they have made a new corresponding Biovore model to
> replace the butt-ugly 3rd/4th Ed. versions?
>
> * they have. it's still butt-ugly.
I thought they only came out with the new pyro-vore model and the
bio-vore was still using the same 'shit' model from 4th edition.
>
> > It doesnt sound like the Mawloc is a monstrous creature, as
> > Terminators got armour saves against it.
>
> Butt-ugly AND not a MC? Fail.
>
> * actually they got their 5+ INVULNERABLE saves against it, not their armour
> saves. it is a monstrous creature.
Ok. That makes a bit more sense. I still wouldn't field one
without making some extensive conversion work on it.
>
> > Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons, has 3 modes
> > Flamer S* AP- Assault 1 Poisoned(2+)
> > Flamer S5 AP5 Assault 1
> > Flamer S3 AP6 Assault 1 Rending
>
> I gather this is the pyro-vore's weapon? I'm dubious of the
> effectiveness of a stand alone critter armed with a point-blank range
> template weapon. It'd be one thing if it was the Nid equivalent of a
> Hellhound. But it's not.
>
> * it's clearly trying to be the nid 'equivalent' of several things. having
> 3 separate profiles for a single ranged weapon (which is only used by a
> SINGLE UNIT out of what, 30?) is a pretty textbook example of how NOT to
> write rules.
Oh come on, it worked great for the bio-vores last edition...
Doctor Rock
"Playa" <johnpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dc0b4516-a9ea-4093...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
Hey,
On Dec 13, 3:43 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> a pretty textbook example of how NOT to write rules
That depends on the *purpose* of the writing.
Ref: Nid player BL's op ed:
"I do
care about having to replace my army because twin-linked weapons are
no longer an option for warriors..."
* why would you want twin-linked weapons on your Warriors, now you can buy a
shiny new pyrovore?
"... spinegaunts switched places with
termagants..."
* well, those army deals won't sell themselves.
"...and carnifexes doubled in points without so much as a stat
increase to compensate."
* the carnifex kit was NEW when the last codex was released, DUH.
"You can't keep customers by treating them this way."
and yet...
Doctor Rock
> In article <rO1Vm.42387$%q6.2...@newsfe08.ams2>,
> mal...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>>
>> "Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.258db6ac5...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <e63fa136-51c4-46d5-99a0-cbd11e365030
>> @j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>> >
>> > Hormagaunts - 6pts basic
>>
>> Hell, knocking them down to 9 or 10 points each would have made
>> them much more reasonable under the 4th Ed rules. 6 points? ...
>>
>> * i believe they are only WS3 now, though.
>
> So, they lost 1 in the WS department and price dropped by half?
don't look at me; MY army lists make sense. who wants the latest* Fimir
draft?!
* this is a scam, it's at least 5 years old now
<snip>
> Yet they continue to view their customer
> base as a disposable and renewable resource. Which is true to a point -
> but only to a point.
*shrug* GW's marketing engine--which pretty much means the whole company
these days--is set up specifically to balance on that point. those of us
who'd thought 2004 should have taught them how precarious a position that is
are gonna continue to be disappointed.
>> > Warriors - 30pts basic
>>
>> Approximately on par with current prices for improved WS and 2
>> sets of scything talons.
>>
>> * bear in mind they also get 3 Wounds and a 4+ save now (confirmed)
>>
> And they'll be a favorite target for las-cannons now that they can
> be insta-killed. Who wouldn't want to knock off a 3 wound model with
> one shot wherever possible?
eh, i'd save the lascannons for carnifexes et al. it's now more
cost-effective than ever to load up on missile launchers in infantry squads
when facing nids. frag clears gaunts, krak wastes warriors/raveners.
>> * oh, there's a new one. which also looks constipated.
>
> I like the pyro-vore. It isn't exactly 'stunning', but it's a
> heck of a lot better than the 3rd or 4th Ed bio-vore. Or did I miss
> announcement that they're releasing a new bio-vore model?
yeah, there is a new one. it is an improvement on the old one... but that
said, my dogs leave improvements on the old biovore steaming on the back
lawn every morning, so don't expect to be overwhelmed.
Craig Little
> In article <rO1Vm.42387$%q6.2...@newsfe08.ams2>,
> mal...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>>
>
>>> Warriors - 30pts basic
>>
>> Approximately on par with current prices for improved WS and 2
>> sets of scything talons.
>>
>> * bear in mind they also get 3 Wounds and a 4+ save now (confirmed)
>>
> And they'll be a favorite target for las-cannons now that they can
> be insta-killed. Who wouldn't want to knock off a 3 wound model with
> one shot wherever possible?
>
I don't know why, but I'm suddenly feeling a Railgun tingle for my Tau army.
>>
>>> Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons, has 3 modes
>>> Flamer S* AP- Assault 1 Poisoned(2+)
>>> Flamer S5 AP5 Assault 1
>>> Flamer S3 AP6 Assault 1 Rending
>>
>> I gather this is the pyro-vore's weapon? I'm dubious of the
>> effectiveness of a stand alone critter armed with a point-blank range
>> template weapon. It'd be one thing if it was the Nid equivalent of a
>> Hellhound. But it's not.
>>
>> * it's clearly trying to be the nid 'equivalent' of several things.
>> having 3 separate profiles for a single ranged weapon (which is only
>> used by a SINGLE UNIT out of what, 30?) is a pretty textbook example
>> of how NOT to write rules.
>
> Oh come on, it worked great for the bio-vores last edition...
>
Couldn't they have made it 3 separate upgrades for the Pyrovore so you had
to think about load out at army building stage (on the other hand this might
mean Tau get a 'Crisis gun' with eleventy-billion different profiles to make
suiting up easier and make a mockery of my rare earth magnet purchasing.
smithdoerr
"Craig Little" <c_li...@bmx.bom> wrote in message
news:4b25...@news.x-privat.org...
> Myrmidon wrote:
>> In article <rO1Vm.42387$%q6.2...@newsfe08.ams2>,
>> mal...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>>>
>
>>
>>>> Warriors - 30pts basic
>>>
>>> Approximately on par with current prices for improved WS and 2
>>> sets of scything talons.
>>>
>>> * bear in mind they also get 3 Wounds and a 4+ save now (confirmed)
>>>
>> And they'll be a favorite target for las-cannons now that they can
>> be insta-killed. Who wouldn't want to knock off a 3 wound model with
>> one shot wherever possible?
>>
>
> I don't know why, but I'm suddenly feeling a Railgun tingle for my Tau
> army.
That thing you're feeling between your legs isn't a railgun no matter how
well endowed you may think you are. And if the tingling lasts for more than
4 hours see your doctor.
>>>> Pyro-Acid: May be fired in addition to other weapons, has 3 modes
>>>> Flamer S* AP- Assault 1 Poisoned(2+)
>>>> Flamer S5 AP5 Assault 1
>>>> Flamer S3 AP6 Assault 1 Rending
>>>
>>> I gather this is the pyro-vore's weapon? I'm dubious of the
>>> effectiveness of a stand alone critter armed with a point-blank range
>>> template weapon. It'd be one thing if it was the Nid equivalent of a
>>> Hellhound. But it's not.
>>>
>>> * it's clearly trying to be the nid 'equivalent' of several things.
>>> having 3 separate profiles for a single ranged weapon (which is only
>>> used by a SINGLE UNIT out of what, 30?) is a pretty textbook example
>>> of how NOT to write rules.
>>
>> Oh come on, it worked great for the bio-vores last edition...
>>
> Couldn't they have made it 3 separate upgrades for the Pyrovore so you had
> to think about load out at army building stage (on the other hand this
> might mean Tau get a 'Crisis gun' with eleventy-billion different profiles
> to make suiting up easier and make a mockery of my rare earth magnet
> purchasing.
It's on a dread sized base and the wording "may be fired in addition to
other weapons" along with the fluff on the GW page suggest more than one
weapon. Maybe it will be the nid equivalent of the Defiler: a dread with a
crappy mix of artillery and close assault weapons.
--
-smithdoerr
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 14, 11:00 am, "smithdoerr" <m...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> a crappy mix
Originally Posted by tgaunt -
+++
good stuff:
zoantrope is cheaper than current one with synapse and warpblast.
warpfield now is a 3+ invul and can only be taken by the zoantrope
(both hierophants and malantropes now laugh their ass off because they
have it in their stats ).
warp blast is like the old one but needs a psychic test (whose idea
was that? s5 ap3 small blast THAT powerfull? whatever...)
the focused one is s10 ap1 lance
trope has bs4!
allmost all tyranids which do not deepstrike by themselfes can be
given biological droppods which work exactly like SM ones (but dont
have half of them come in turn 1) for only a bit more than SM ones
cost.
dakka is not gone. devourer is a s4 assoult 3 gun on small bugs but s6
assoult 6 on tyrants and carnifex (by an ammonition upgrade which
comes automatically on big bugs). you can take two sets. both
dakktyrant and dakkafex will end at about 200 points per!
sniper is gone because you can only take one set of 'heavy' weapon per
big bug.
boneswords are power weapons and can be taken on all warrior-strain
creatures (warrior, winged warrior, tyrant guard, tyrant). they can
cause instant death. a pair of them costs only 10points on warriors.
for each tyrant you can buy a unit of 1-3 guards as a free-hq (60pts
each). tyrants can join tyrant guard as if they were IC.
tyrants start at 170 points with either twin scytings or scytings and
bonesword/lashwhip. they have 2 out of 4 pwoers for free (each of them
would be easily worth the 2*25=50 points he costs more now if you
could choose if you want them. as a forced buy they make the tyrant
somewhat expensive).
powers are as mentioned above. the 4th power is automatically one unit
in 18" sets bs&ws to 1 until the start of the next tyranid player's
turn.
tyrants can buy as many as they choose of the following abilities:
+1 to reserve as long as the tyrant is alive
prefered enemy to every brood with models witihn 6"
didnt remember thirt
you can byu either wings, 2+ save or a potent shooting weapon as a
carapax biomorph.
mixed stuff:
toxotroph is t4 w2 5+ armor, comes in broods of 1-3.
his cloud gives every unit with models within 6" 5+ cover (inculding
himself), defensive grenades and everyone assoulting them has to test
for DANGEROUS terrain.
would have been a blessing for old nidzilla sniper fexes but now is
quite useless.
bad stuff:
pyrovore is useless. t4 2w 4+ armor, a heavy flamer with no hellhound
range. possibly of use as a brood of 3 in a droppod but frail (I'd
rather have 4 bonesword warriors than 3 heavy flamers...).
hiveguard has a 4+ save. he looks like a hiveguard but apprently the
heavy chitin armor is only decoy
synapse doesnt help against instant death.
there is a bug in fast assoult. mosntrous creature 160points 4w t5 4+
armor which can fly (big gargoyle)... lets chorus: "catch the heavy
bolter shell!"
+++
Can warriors have poison? More expensive than an gaunt?
every unit you want in cc can ahve the poison. more expensive yes but
tbh both poison and furious cahrge are costed fair.
Can genestealers (normal) have poison? More expensive than an gaunt?
dont remember, but I think yes. afaik all but tropes and artillery
bugs can buy it.
What can you tell us about broodlords? Power weapon? Attacks? Wounds?
IC? Granades?
in short: he is now more a magus than a broodlord. no power weapon,
profile like now but without upgrades. he is a searge-like modell and
doesnt have grenades. he does however can buy 2 psychic pwoers: a) old
psychic scream with a psytest toa ctivate and 12" range. b) roll of lds
+1d6 against one enemy modell. if the lord at least draws the modell
cannot make any attacks (very nice!)
Can raveners have frag grenades? And genestealers? and warriors? xD
no. frags are extremely rare (a monstrous siced carapax upgrade
afaik). I could have overread some hidden way (like the ravener
haveing acess to that carapax weapon) though.
Do the ripper swarm score?
they have no rule to negate their "swarm" basic rule
Do the poison applies also to the ranged weapons?
no
fleshborer are 12" range or 18", and S3 or S4?
they are exactly like today on a termagaunt without upgrades but
living ammo is gone.
+++
Playa
Myrmidon
@r1g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 14, 11:00 am, "smithdoerr" <m...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> > a crappy mix
>
> Originally Posted by tgaunt -
>
> +++
>
> good stuff:
> zoantrope is cheaper than current one with synapse and warpblast.
> warpfield now is a 3+ invul and can only be taken by the zoantrope
> (both hierophants and malantropes now laugh their ass off because they
> have it in their stats ).
Yeah, they needed a 3+ invulnerable save because they were so easy
to kill with the 2+/5+ before...
> warp blast is like the old one but needs a psychic test (whose idea
> was that? s5 ap3 small blast THAT powerfull? whatever...)
> the focused one is s10 ap1 lance
> trope has bs4!
>
The improved BS of 4 will definitely help with hitting things
occassionally. And since the lance has a range of a whopping 18"
(craptacular!) I guess it is going to need a 3+ invulnerable save just
to live long enough to get in range of a vehicle that isn't coming to
it.
> allmost all tyranids which do not deepstrike by themselfes can be
> given biological droppods which work exactly like SM ones (but dont
> have half of them come in turn 1) for only a bit more than SM ones
> cost.
>
Until I actually this consistantly work out for the Nids in a
meaningful fashion, I'm highly dubious of this. Nothing is better for
an opponent than to have Nid units show up piecemeal, and quite possibly
without synapse too.
> dakka is not gone. devourer is a s4 assoult 3 gun on small bugs
Between this and the supposed fleshborer stats below it reads like
GW sales pulled up the sales chart and went "Hmmm, they bought a lot of
Fleshborer armed gants - we'll have to make it so that they'll have to
buy a lot of some other upgrade this time and get all new minis."
> but s6
> assoult 6 on tyrants and carnifex (by an ammonition upgrade which
> comes automatically on big bugs). you can take two sets. both
> dakktyrant and dakkafex will end at about 200 points per!
>
Which is good how exactly? Particularly when it sounds like the
'living ammo' rule as a whole has been removed from the Nids arsenal...
> sniper is gone because you can only take one set of 'heavy' weapon per
> big bug.
He said 'heavy weapon' <snort!>. If true, then so much for GW
telling Nid players that they've got variety - i.e. can create a
*VIABLE* Nid gun-line army.
>
> boneswords are power weapons and can be taken on all warrior-strain
> creatures (warrior, winged warrior, tyrant guard, tyrant). they can
> cause instant death. a pair of them costs only 10points on warriors.
>
And they'll *need* power weapons to do any damage since flesh
hooks no longer count as frag grenades in C.C. Those that survive might
kill something.
> for each tyrant you can buy a unit of 1-3 guards as a free-hq (60pts
> each). tyrants can join tyrant guard as if they were IC.
Hun??? TG count as 'free HQ'? That's odd.
>
> tyrants start at 170 points with either twin scytings or scytings and
> bonesword/lashwhip. they have 2 out of 4 pwoers for free (each of them
> would be easily worth the 2*25=50 points he costs more now if you
> could choose if you want them. as a forced buy they make the tyrant
> somewhat expensive).
>
> powers are as mentioned above. the 4th power is automatically one unit
> in 18" sets bs&ws to 1 until the start of the next tyranid player's
> turn.
>
> tyrants can buy as many as they choose of the following abilities:
> +1 to reserve as long as the tyrant is alive
> prefered enemy to every brood with models witihn 6"
> didnt remember thirt
>
> you can byu either wings, 2+ save or a potent shooting weapon as a
> carapax biomorph.
>
>
> mixed stuff:
> toxotroph is t4 w2 5+ armor, comes in broods of 1-3.
> his cloud gives every unit with models within 6" 5+ cover (inculding
> himself), defensive grenades and everyone assoulting them has to test
> for DANGEROUS terrain.
> would have been a blessing for old nidzilla sniper fexes but now is
> quite useless.
>
Apparently the Nids have been reading Shakespear... "When
Burmingham Woods comes to..." They've got walking forests. Or they've
been eating a lot of Ork Mechs with custom forcefields. With the crap
range of many small bugs shooting weapons these'll be a perfect match.
(Another trimph of rules design for the sales department - woohoo!)
>
> bad stuff:
> pyrovore is useless. t4 2w 4+ armor, a heavy flamer with no hellhound
> range. possibly of use as a brood of 3 in a droppod but frail (I'd
> rather have 4 bonesword warriors than 3 heavy flamers...).
No, these'll sell - if only as an alternative stand in to the shit
looking Bio-vore models. (sales!)
>
> hiveguard has a 4+ save. he looks like a hiveguard but apprently the
> heavy chitin armor is only decoy
>
Hive Zoat? Not impressed with the model, or the supposed stats of
it's weapon. No (sales!).
> synapse doesnt help against instant death.
Of course not silly! This isn't about a fluffy or unique army.
It's all about the SALES! We've carefully crafted the rules to
stimulate sales (sales!) while at the same time ensuring that larger
battles (sales!) can be played in the same 2 to 3 hour time frame as
smaller battles at past tournaments (sales!). After all, everyone knows
that the real joy of gaming (sales!) is putting on and then taking off
large blocks of minis (sales!) from the gaming table (sales!).
Thanks - the Sales! Department. :)
>
> there is a bug in fast assoult. mosntrous creature 160points 4w t5 4+
> armor which can fly (big gargoyle)... lets chorus: "catch the heavy
> bolter shell!"
Indeed. Not to mention no apparent model for this flying big bug
- so instead by some plastic Dragon wings (sales!) and a Carnifex
(sales!) and make your own. (Cha-Ch$ng!)
>
> +++
>
> Can warriors have poison? More expensive than an gaunt?
> every unit you want in cc can ahve the poison. more expensive yes but
> tbh both poison and furious cahrge are costed fair.
Yes, because nothing says "this unit has a unique combat role"
like making them all the same. Nothing says this army is flexible like
giving the entire thing HTH and little else...
>
> Can genestealers (normal) have poison? More expensive than an gaunt?
> dont remember, but I think yes. afaik all but tropes and artillery
> bugs can buy it.
WTF would one buy 'poison' for an 'artillery' bug unless it means
one can get the benefits on a spore mine for example? Yikes!
>
> What can you tell us about broodlords? Power weapon? Attacks? Wounds?
> IC? Granades?
> in short: he is now more a magus than a broodlord. no power weapon,
> profile like now but without upgrades. he is a searge-like modell and
> doesnt have grenades. he does however can buy 2 psychic pwoers: a) old
> psychic scream with a psytest toa ctivate and 12" range. b) roll of lds
> +1d6 against one enemy modell. if the lord at least draws the modell
> cannot make any attacks (very nice!)
>
So in otherwords a cheese ladden ability in order to sell (sales!)
an otherwise mediocure model.
> Can raveners have frag grenades? And genestealers? and warriors? xD
> no. frags are extremely rare (a monstrous siced carapax upgrade
> afaik). I could have overread some hidden way (like the ravener
> haveing acess to that carapax weapon) though.
>
So, in otherwords, any foe with 2 brain cells to rub together is
going to sit in cover and wait for the charge and slaughter a lot of
bugs before they ever get to strike back. Great! No wonder they have
to have uber large units (sales!) and power weapon like rules (sales!).
> Do the ripper swarm score?
> they have no rule to negate their "swarm" basic rule
>
Which means they're still in the 'suck - waste-o-points' catagory.
> Do the poison applies also to the ranged weapons?
> no
Well, that answers the above 'artillery' bug question.
>
> fleshborer are 12" range or 18", and S3 or S4?
> they are exactly like today on a termagaunt without upgrades but
> living ammo is gone.
So, under the current rules with living ammo it takes on average 8
gants at 6 points each to kill 1 (one) marine in the shooting phase - at
a total of 48 points of gants to one 16 - 18 point marine. Now, the
gants are cheaper by 1 point, but it'll take an average of 12 (at 60
points) to kill 1 (one!) marine. All with the anemic range of 12
inches. Wow. Apparently the Nids players bought to many of these -
time to nerf sales (sales!).
That is (sales!) all.
Myr :~/
Doctor Rock
In article <157bb547-bce8-432f-a0ff-e07d580b4b86
@r1g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> assoult 6 on tyrants and carnifex (by an ammonition upgrade which
> comes automatically on big bugs). you can take two sets. both
> dakktyrant and dakkafex will end at about 200 points per!
>
Which is good how exactly? Particularly when it sounds like the
'living ammo' rule as a whole has been removed from the Nids arsenal...
=====
whoever wrote all that shit strikes me as the kind of person who just likes
to roll a great many dice. and probably shouts "WAAARGH" a lot.
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 18, 1:30 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> likes to roll
Originally posted by Schepp:
+++
Tyrant is 170 points (280 for the big mofo)
Zoanthropes are indeed 60 points with synapse, warpfield (3++) and
warp lighning (24" S5 AP3 blast or 18 "S10 AP1 assault 1, lance) and
shadow of the warp.
1-3 in an elite brood, spore possible.
Yrmgal stealers are 23 points.
Stealers are 14 points. Can have scything talons (2 points iirc),
furious charge and poison. Biggy is 46 points.
Warriors are 30 points, 3-9 in a brood (as Raveners) One can have a
big gun (venom and strangler?) for 15 points for the small venomcannon
and 10 for the other one. The rest have to have the same loadout, so
no nob bikers.
Can have boneswords or one bonesword and lashwhip.
Poison and furious charge costs 5 points each.
Gaunts are 5 points. Hormas 6. Toxin and adrenal costs 1 for gaunts
and 2 for hormas. Gives 4+ poison (for melee only!!) and furious
charge respectively.
WoN is gone!
Rippers are a tenner.
Tervigon can indeed be troop per gaunt swarm.
Lictor CANNOT assault or move after appearing (within 1" without
scatter, without terrain) but can shoot or run. The flesh hook is 12"
S6 AP- Assault 2 rending! 65 points for one. 1-3 in a brood.
Carnifex is 160. Bio blasma is NOT given (short range plasma cannon)!
Can buy it for 20 points. Big venomcannon is 25 points, Strangler I
think is 20 points. Can only take one big-one. Has scything talon set
as standard, can change each for a small gun! So you carnifexes are
not invalid. Cost 10-15 points each, though!
Flying rippers and Warriors are +5 points more.
+++
Playa
smcdaniel1
"Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.258ed08fe...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <rO1Vm.42387$%q6.2...@newsfe08.ams2>,
> mal...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>>
>
>
>> > Carnifex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A4 Ld6 ASv3+
>> > - 1-3, expensive
>> > - they may buy freaking EVERYTHING, but no more profile upgrades
>>
>> I keep hearing that the Fexes will be T5 and subject to insta-kill
>> versus S10 weapons.
>>
>> * not that i'm aware of, via my admittedly second-hand codex review.
>>
>
> I'm still uncertain too - but it is one rumor I keep hearing
> contradictory information on.
>
Perhaps this has been clarified in the last few days I was gone, but: Do
Fexes still have the ability for two heavy weapons? Can gaunts still use
spinefists? If not, that's it for me and GW. I Just finished building,
priming and base painting my 7000 points worth of bugs. I shant do it
again...
Btw, trying to make my way through this thread it seems the Nids are WAY too
powerful now...except of course against the Big Blue, et al.
--
Sir Scott "... " McDaniel
Blackheart
> "Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.258ed08fe...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
> > mala...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>
> >> > Carnifex: WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A4 Ld6 ASv3+
> >> > - 1-3, expensive
> >> > - they may buy freaking EVERYTHING, but no more profile upgrades
>
> >> I keep hearing that the Fexes will be T5 and subject to insta-kill
> >> versus S10 weapons.
>
> >> * not that i'm aware of, via my admittedly second-hand codex review.
>
> > I'm still uncertain too - but it is one rumor I keep hearing
> > contradictory information on.
>
> Perhaps this has been clarified in the last few days I was gone, but: Do
> Fexes still have the ability for two heavy weapons? Can gaunts still use
> spinefists? If not, that's it for me and GW. I Just finished building,
> priming and base painting my 7000 points worth of bugs. I shant do it
> again...
>
> Btw, trying to make my way through this thread it seems the Nids are WAY too
> powerful now...except of course against the Big Blue, et al.
>
word is that Fexes can NOT take two heavies anymore...
unsure about guants and spinefists...
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 19, 2:02 am, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani...@cox.net> wrote:
> Do Fexes still have the ability for two heavy weapons?
No. Scytal/ HVC or scytal/ SC is okay.
Heavy VC/ StrangCan is illegal.
R.I.P Sniperfex.
All figs in a Fex brood must be modeled identically.
(Also, Bioplas isn't free as originally leaked.)
Yay 700pt non-scoring 3+ ASv Units!
Plus, Stranglethorn turns out to be Pinning, not Rending.
(Ironically, Hooks are Rending *and* AP-.)
Bizarrro!
> I Just finished building,
> priming and base painting my 7000 points worth of bugs
The Nid dex looks to be targetting - exclusively - new players.
Bug Vets must make sweeping changes or lose competitive edge.
Newbs must spend @US$500 for odd, unfinished toys just to sign-on.
Boy howdy, talk about a brilliant marketing scheme!
After 22+ years, GW is reduced to this tactic for sales incentive?
In today's economy, this is mashing the Fail button and holding it
down.
> it seems the Nids are WAY too powerful now
Worse: they're to be played in a totally different manner.
Still, the truly powerful stuff seems a bit overcosted.
But, none of the old stuff will work in the new way.
Prediction: Trygon = tourney chimp must-have Unit.
Any non-Flyer/ MC Unit can slink from its burrow.
Many of these have default Power Weapons.
Let the Board Trolling commence in 3, 2 ...
Playa
smcdaniel1
"Playa" <johnpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9f568fc7-7418-4faf...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Hey,
On Dec 19, 2:02 am, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Do Fexes still have the ability for two heavy weapons?
>No. Scytal/ HVC or scytal/ SC is okay.
>Heavy VC/ StrangCan is illegal.
>R.I.P Sniperfex.
Well that's not as bad as I thought (I thought Scytals and Crushing Claws
were considered heavy on fexes)
>All figs in a Fex brood must be modeled identically.
>(Also, Bioplas isn't free as originally leaked.)
>Yay 700pt non-scoring 3+ ASv Units!
Well...shit. I only have a couple that are identical
>Plus, Stranglethorn turns out to be Pinning, not Rending.
>(Ironically, Hooks are Rending *and* AP-.)
>Bizarrro!
Okay... um... Okayyyy...
>> I Just finished building,
>> priming and base painting my 7000 points worth of bugs
>The Nid dex looks to be targetting - exclusively - new players.
>Bug Vets must make sweeping changes or lose competitive edge.
>Newbs must spend @US$500 for odd, unfinished toys just to sign-on.
This cheeses me off because half of the fun was nobody but me played the
bugs in our group. They all went out and got Orks and Neo-korns after a
couple of battles. Not that I was good at orks, they were just fun.
>Boy howdy, talk about a brilliant marketing scheme!
>After 22+ years, GW is reduced to this tactic for sales incentive?
>In today's economy, this is mashing the Fail button and holding it
>down.
With all of their pasty weight...
>> it seems the Nids are WAY too powerful now
>Worse: they're to be played in a totally different manner.
>Still, the truly powerful stuff seems a bit overcosted.
>But, none of the old stuff will work in the new way.
I'll have to see the dex but... I'm scared. Hold me.
>Prediction: Trygon = tourney chimp must-have Unit.
>Any non-Flyer/ MC Unit can slink from its burrow.
>Many of these have default Power Weapons.
You've been reading the Emperors Tarot again, haven't you; witch.
>Let the Board Trolling commence in 3, 2 ...
--
Sir Scott "Myr will hate me but I like the new Red Terror. Sorry... "
McDaniel
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 19, 4:20 pm, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani...@cox.net> wrote:
> I'm scared. Hold me.
Oh, be afraid - and hold THIS:
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1743/tervigon1.jpg
Note the sweet GS work and neato strip club ruin. Now:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3087/tervigon2.jpg
Note the ovipositor a la _Aliens_ disgorging Gants.
That's the Trygon variant called "Tervigon".
If you take 3 broods of Gant Troops, you can take 3 Tervis. As
Troops.
WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A3 Ld10 Sv2+ Synapse MC Troops - Scoring Units.
MC Scoring Units with R18 S5 AP5 A4 guns! But wait, there's more:
Each Tervi spawns 3d6 Gants every turn - even Tervis in CC!
Gants w/in 6in use her Ld and gain the Counter and Poison USRs.
She may use a Psi that lets Gants shoot and Run in the same phase.
There's always a drawback to this kind of thing, and here it's -
* She's 160pts with default 18in Synapse Psi Power.
* If she dies, all Gants w/in 6in suffer 3d6 S3 AP- hits.
* If her 3d6 show doubles, she no longer spawns that game.
Oh, and these Scoring MCs can get Drop Pods . . .
Playa
Myrmidon
says...
>
>
> "Playa" <johnpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9f568fc7-7418-4faf...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 19, 2:02 am, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> Do Fexes still have the ability for two heavy weapons?
>
> >No. Scytal/ HVC or scytal/ SC is okay.
> >Heavy VC/ StrangCan is illegal.
> >R.I.P Sniperfex.
The mear fact that everyone skipped Bio-vores routinely and took a
'sniper fex' instead should clue in even the clue-impared about how much
'teh suck' Bio-vores were under the old rules.
>
> Well that's not as bad as I thought (I thought Scytals and Crushing Claws
> were considered heavy on fexes)
It is bad as far as I'm concerned. Mixing close combat bio-morphs
on a Fex with a heavy weapon is like giving the crew of a Leman Russ a
mandatory 'Must upgrade to Las Pistols' rule at a 'measely' 25 points.
Ever see the mock 40K poster with the Commissar sitting in the top hatch
of a Russ and waiving a power sword? The caption reads "Drive me
closer, I want to hit them with my sword" which drives home perfectly
how idiotic a concept it is for Fexes too.
>
>
> >All figs in a Fex brood must be modeled identically.
> >(Also, Bioplas isn't free as originally leaked.)
> >Yay 700pt non-scoring 3+ ASv Units!
>
> Well...shit. I only have a couple that are identical
This is why the magnets are your friend. That way when the ass-
hats change all the rules one isn't 'forced' to break and 're-arm' all
their models.
>
> >Plus, Stranglethorn turns out to be Pinning, not Rending.
In other words a typical barbed strangler.
> >(Ironically, Hooks are Rending *and* AP-.)
> >Bizarrro!
>
> Okay... um... Okayyyy...
No, not really. It effectively takes away 'frag grenades' from
the overwhelming majority of Nid units - an option they REALLY NEED as a
prodominately HTH army GW has molded them into now. The Tyranids
ALREADY HAD a proverbial shit-ton of short ranged shooting weapons.
They needed MORE like the Titanic needs more fucking salt water.
>
> >> I Just finished building,
> >> priming and base painting my 7000 points worth of bugs
>
> >The Nid dex looks to be targetting - exclusively - new players.
> >Bug Vets must make sweeping changes or lose competitive edge.
> >Newbs must spend @US$500 for odd, unfinished toys just to sign-on.
>
> This cheeses me off because half of the fun was nobody but me played the
> bugs in our group. They all went out and got Orks and Neo-korns after a
> couple of battles. Not that I was good at orks, they were just fun.
>
Hey, remember, it isn't about keeping customers for any length of
time. It's not like they draw new players into 'Teh Hobbyz' or anything.
Churn is the word.
> >Boy howdy, talk about a brilliant marketing scheme!
> >After 22+ years, GW is reduced to this tactic for sales incentive?
> >In today's economy, this is mashing the Fail button and holding it
> >down.
>
> With all of their pasty weight...
Hey, as long as it doesn't decrease the profits. Oh wait...
>
> >> it seems the Nids are WAY too powerful now
>
> >Worse: they're to be played in a totally different manner.
Not in a 'totally' different manner. Tyranids have always been
geared towards assault. What sucks here is that they're being geared
towards NOTHING BUT ASSAULT. Which truly sucked ass in 3rd Edition and
was boring as hell to play with or against. (Flying Tyrants with
Genestealers and Gaunts every game again anyone?) I can hear GW now...
"But you've got FLYING Assault, and GROUND Assault, and TUNNELING
Assault, and DROP-POD Assault, and OUT FLANKING Assault. See! That's
AT LEAST five different armies."
At this point I'm simply waiting for the Tournament monkeys to figure
out which combo is the most efficent at winning Tournaments and the
"everyone takes the same cookie cutter list" syndrome will be complete.
> >Still, the truly powerful stuff seems a bit overcosted.
> >But, none of the old stuff will work in the new way.
>
> I'll have to see the dex but... I'm scared. Hold me.
My weather prediction is 'Lots of cheese', with a healthy dose of
'rinse, repeat, boredom' thrown in for good measure.
>
> >Prediction: Trygon = tourney chimp must-have Unit.
Ya think?
> >Any non-Flyer/ MC Unit can slink from its burrow.
> >Many of these have default Power Weapons.
I'd be willing to bet the few Nids that make it into HTH will need
them to have any chance at winning. No armor, no synapse resistance to
insta-kill, and no ranged weapons dedicated big bugs to stand off and
cover the advance. (An no kids, the Hive Guard with an S8 weapon is NOT
going to be popping Leman Russ or Land Raiders at range.)
Myr
--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."
-- Moramarth
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
Myrmidon
21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 19, 4:20 pm, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani...@cox.net> wrote:
> > I'm scared. Hold me.
>
> Oh, be afraid - and hold THIS:
>
> http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1743/tervigon1.jpg
>
> Note the sweet GS work and neato strip club ruin. Now:
>
> http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3087/tervigon2.jpg
>
> Note the ovipositor a la _Aliens_ disgorging Gants.
Very nice conversion. Sadly I don't have the time or talent to
make one of those on my own at the moment.
>
> That's the Trygon variant called "Tervigon".
> If you take 3 broods of Gant Troops, you can take 3 Tervis. As
> Troops.
> WS3 BS3 S6 T6 W4 I1 A3 Ld10 Sv2+ Synapse MC Troops - Scoring Units.
>
> MC Scoring Units with R18 S5 AP5 A4 guns! But wait, there's more:
>
> Each Tervi spawns 3d6 Gants every turn - even Tervis in CC!
> Gants w/in 6in use her Ld and gain the Counter and Poison USRs.
> She may use a Psi that lets Gants shoot and Run in the same phase.
>
> There's always a drawback to this kind of thing, and here it's -
>
> * She's 160pts with default 18in Synapse Psi Power.
> * If she dies, all Gants w/in 6in suffer 3d6 S3 AP- hits.
> * If her 3d6 show doubles, she no longer spawns that game.
Remind me of the odds of rolling 2 dice out of 3 with the same number on
any given roll? :) (It's more often than one would hope.)
>
> Oh, and these Scoring MCs can get Drop Pods . . .
You missed the *REST OF* the 'drawbacks' (plural).
* Termigants with S4 fleshborers, BS 3, and NO living ammo rule = 12
shots on average to generate 6 hits to generate 3 wounds to generate 1
failed armor save. In other words a Nid player will need 60 points of
Gants to kill 1 marine in the shooting phase using a weapon with a 12
inch range. And now no Without Numbers rule either.
(Which is great if you want to force existing Nids players to buy more
gants and arm them with devourers or spine fists instead.)
* The HTH buffs only make the Gants slightly LESS pathetic in HTH, not
an actual HTH unit.
* There is NO premade kit - Spend $50 or more to buy a Nid MC kit and
then buy more bits and/or sculpt your own. Can't sculpt? Awww - to
bad. Limited GW bits service? Awww - to bad. You can always buy a 2nd
$50 kit you know...
< Microsoft - those aren't Bugs, those are 'features'.>
Myrmidon
Richard Busby
> Ever see the mock 40K poster with the Commissar sitting in the top hatch
> of a Russ and waiving a power sword? The caption reads "Drive me
> closer, I want to hit them with my sword" which drives home perfectly
> how idiotic a concept it is for Fexes too.
Because it's so full of win:
http://www.monkeyboobies.com/gallery/d/219-1/drive+me+closer_+i+want+to+hit+them+with+my+sword.png
>>
> Hey, remember, it isn't about keeping customers for any length of
> time. It's not like they draw new players into 'Teh Hobbyz' or anything.
> Churn is the word.
Personally I'm on the downside of the churn cycle... they are just about
squeezing me out of "Teh Hobbyz". With games like Firestorm to fill my
spaceship hankering and Secrets of the Reich/Incursion filling the
squad/skirmish role and both offering great, engaged and responsive
customer service...
> At this point I'm simply waiting for the Tournament monkeys to figure
> out which combo is the most efficent at winning Tournaments and the
> "everyone takes the same cookie cutter list" syndrome will be complete.
Geez... that will never happen. CSM Twin Lash, Melta Vet/Chimera Spam,
and Terminator Storm Shield/Thunderhammer spam... nah those are just
flukes. You'll see many and varied lists from the new Codex Tyranids.
<guffaw>
Aw hell, who am I kidding? Not even myself.
>> I'll have to see the dex but... I'm scared. Hold me.
>
> My weather prediction is 'Lots of cheese', with a healthy dose of
> 'rinse, repeat, boredom' thrown in for good measure.
As a former Nid player, I'm saddened. By Codex Creep, by GW IP Gestapo
tactics, by Tournament Autism, by the replacement of a fun game with
thinly veiled sales enhancement mechanisms. GW says they don't care
about the game rules... why should I?
>>> Prediction: Trygon = tourney chimp must-have Unit.
>
> Ya think?
Ah-yup.
>>> Any non-Flyer/ MC Unit can slink from its burrow.
>>> Many of these have default Power Weapons.
This sounds like the new Cheddar. I predict three Trygons in every list.
smithdoerr
=====================
29 in 54 (about 44%).
--
-smithdoerr
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> Mixing close combat bio-morphs
> on a Fex with a heavy weapon is like giving the crew of a Leman Russ a
> mandatory 'Must upgrade to Las Pistols' rule
Pish. Fexes come with Scytals by default, IG with Lasguns.
Besides, there is no "LR Crew" IG Unit.
Their HW Units have Lasguns, too.
> It effectively takes away 'frag grenades' from
> the overwhelming majority of Nid units - an option they REALLY NEED as a
> prodominately HTH army GW has molded them into now.
Now?
> remember, it isn't about keeping customers for any length of
> time.
Maybe it's me, but GW seems wrong-headed at times.
> It's not like they draw new players into 'Teh Hobbyz' or anything.
Well, their start-up pricing should see to that.
I was astounded when Black Reach went up in price -
"They're selling a ton, we must have priced too low. Nooo!"
_ - * L A T E R * - _
"Right! AoBR sales have fallen off a cliff! Whew! That was close."
> as long as it doesn't decrease the profits
Short term profits. VERY short, and getting shorter -
The only way to make it work is higher prices for lower value.
Ref: Lead prices AND ABOVE for equivalent plastic gaming pieces.
Naturally, this strategy succeeds only the right economic
environment . . .
> Tyranids have always been
> geared towards assault. What sucks here is that they're being geared
> towards NOTHING BUT ASSAULT.
Um, round here Nids are either Stealer Horde or Zilla lists.
There are variants, but none of those are Gunline.
> 'Lots of cheese', with a healthy dose of
> 'rinse, repeat, boredom' thrown in for good measure.
This is because, as Jervis notes, only the studio staff "just know"
how to play.
You see, when you're paid to play 40k, "brilliant fun" just naturally
happens.
And, when you get your armies for free, Teh Hobby is super-relaxing.
So, everyone stop being so contrary and just "Buy, buy, buy!*"
+++
On Dec 21, 11:53 am, "smithdoerr" <m...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> I don't have the time or talent to make one of those
No prob - just buy 3 or 4 Nid MC boxes and bash away.
Remember, Jervis' kid isn't going to support himself:
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/6303/jerviejr.jpg
> Remind me of the odds of rolling 2 dice out of 3 with the same number on
> any given roll? :) (It's more often than one would hope.)
> 29 in 54 (about 44%).
AKA two of six turns.
> You missed the *REST OF* the 'drawbacks' (plural)
Oh, I wouldn't say I "missed" them, Bob. Heh.
GW wants players to adopt Zilla Horde lists -
Got Zilla? Buy Horde. Got Horde? Buy Zilla.
> great if you want to force existing Nids players to buy more
Incentive to buy? Now, that's just crazy talk . . .
> * The HTH buffs only make the Gants slightly LESS pathetic in HTH, not
> an actual HTH unit.
Imo, any pathos would be in direct proportion to their 6pt cost.
As 31+ 0pt Gants can appear every turn, they're not unattractive.
Pla - now listening to anything with "lithium" in the title - ya
--
* (tm) Jervis "literally cannot spell 'sinecure'" Johnson
Myrmidon
26g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 21, 6:32 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > Mixing close combat bio-morphs
> > on a Fex with a heavy weapon is like giving the crew of a Leman Russ a
> > mandatory 'Must upgrade to Las Pistols' rule
>
> Pish. Fexes come with Scytals by default, IG with Lasguns.
> Besides, there is no "LR Crew" IG Unit.
> Their HW Units have Lasguns, too.
'mandatory fuzzy dice upgrade'- which gives the IG player the 'Looks
733t' bonus versus difficult terrain tests. "So, does it improve your
difficult terrain test results? No, but it sure looks '733t' when it
gets stuck!"
>
> > It effectively takes away 'frag grenades' from
> > the overwhelming majority of Nid units - an option they REALLY NEED as a
> > prodominately HTH army GW has molded them into now.
>
> Now?
>
Oh, one could do just fine with Death Spitter armed warriors and
lots of shooty gants supported by 'Sniper Fex' and a Devourer or VC
armed Tyrant. Add some gaunts and stealers for CC goodness.
> > remember, it isn't about keeping customers for any length of
> > time.
>
> Maybe it's me, but GW seems wrong-headed at times.
Yes, that's often 'Day time' and 'Night time'...
>
> > It's not like they draw new players into 'Teh Hobbyz' or anything.
>
> Well, their start-up pricing should see to that.
> I was astounded when Black Reach went up in price -
> "They're selling a ton, we must have priced too low. Nooo!"
>
> _ - * L A T E R * - _
>
> "Right! AoBR sales have fallen off a cliff! Whew! That was close."
>
Heh!
> > as long as it doesn't decrease the profits
>
> Short term profits. VERY short, and getting shorter -
> The only way to make it work is higher prices for lower value.
> Ref: Lead prices AND ABOVE for equivalent plastic gaming pieces.
>
> Naturally, this strategy succeeds only the right economic
> environment . . .
>
Apparently we haven't seen the wrong environment yet...
> > Tyranids have always been
> > geared towards assault. What sucks here is that they're being geared
> > towards NOTHING BUT ASSAULT.
>
> Um, round here Nids are either Stealer Horde or Zilla lists.
> There are variants, but none of those are Gunline.
Sounds boring. I've yet to take a Zilla list for the fact that it
just doesn't even sound fun to game with - much less against.
>
> > 'Lots of cheese', with a healthy dose of
> > 'rinse, repeat, boredom' thrown in for good measure.
>
> This is because, as Jervis notes, only the studio staff "just know"
> how to play.
> You see, when you're paid to play 40k, "brilliant fun" just naturally
> happens.
> And, when you get your armies for free, Teh Hobby is super-relaxing.
>
> So, everyone stop being so contrary and just "Buy, buy, buy!*"
>
Otherwise Fat-Bloke will have to sell all his kids for Xmas to be
able to afford to buy an X-Box for his kids for Xmas.
> +++
>
> On Dec 21, 11:53 am, "smithdoerr" <m...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> > I don't have the time or talent to make one of those
>
> No prob - just buy 3 or 4 Nid MC boxes and bash away.
> Remember, Jervis' kid isn't going to support himself:
>
> http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/6303/jerviejr.jpg
I'm not sure I'd want to wake up and see that standing over me.
It looks like an angry angry smurf armed with Hell Boy's left hand (done
in blue) and a bolt pistol.
>
> > Remind me of the odds of rolling 2 dice out of 3 with the same number on
> > any given roll? :) (It's more often than one would hope.)
> > 29 in 54 (about 44%).
>
> AKA two of six turns.
>
> > You missed the *REST OF* the 'drawbacks' (plural)
>
> Oh, I wouldn't say I "missed" them, Bob. Heh.
Zing! :)
> GW wants players to adopt Zilla Horde lists -
> Got Zilla? Buy Horde. Got Horde? Buy Zilla.
>
> > great if you want to force existing Nids players to buy more
>
> Incentive to buy? Now, that's just crazy talk . . .
>
CHA-CH$$$$$NG!
> > * The HTH buffs only make the Gants slightly LESS pathetic in HTH, not
> > an actual HTH unit.
>
> Imo, any pathos would be in direct proportion to their 6pt cost.
> As 31+ 0pt Gants can appear every turn, they're not unattractive.
>
Sure they are if one can't do the math. One would need 36 a turn
just to kill 3 marines - at a range of 12 inches. And odds of 3 of them
producing that many per turn without rolling doubles is statistically
'damn near zero'.
>
> Pla - now listening to anything with "lithium" in the title - ya
>
> --
>
> * (tm) Jervis "literally cannot spell 'sinecure'" Johnson
Nice!
Myr :)
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 21, 9:44 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> CHA-CH$$$$$NG!
It's strange. GW seemed to be having fun making money.
Lately, their strained hyperbole and shrill hysterics just grate.
I've a feeling they've become too jaded for genuine smiles anymore.
Pity.
> 36 a turn just to kill 3 marines
Okay. First, you'd have to buy some Gant broods.
3x, say, 20 Gants to unlock 3 Tervigon (6 Troops).
Then, select yourself another 460pts in non-Troop bugs.
So, the Big Guns are distracted by 460 non-scoring pts.
Meanwhile, your 3 Scoring MCs waddle onto Objectives.
(Each orbited by a growing asteroid belt of Gants.)
Then factor-in 126 free bugs over four turns.
How are your 3 hypothetical Marines doing now?
Impossible to say? Exactly -
Mathhammer is as relevant as Beat Poetry.
> odds of 3 of them producing that many per turn without rolling doubles is
Mathhammer says 'better than 50/50'.
My dice tell me that I can roll doubles the first time.
Then, I can roll nineteen times in a row without rolling another.
Other considerations:
Borers may be R18 S4 AP5.
And they may need no LoS to Hit . . .
Playa
Myrmidon
074c93...@d20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com
says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 21, 9:44 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > CHA-CH$$$$$NG!
>
> It's strange. GW seemed to be having fun making money.
> Lately, their strained hyperbole and shrill hysterics just grate.
> I've a feeling they've become too jaded for genuine smiles anymore.
>
> Pity.
>
> > 36 a turn just to kill 3 marines
>
> Okay. First, you'd have to buy some Gant broods.
> 3x, say, 20 Gants to unlock 3 Tervigon (6 Troops).
> Then, select yourself another 460pts in non-Troop bugs.
Ok, so you've got 2 Carnifex and a Lictor. Or perhaps a whopping
15 Warriors waiting to be insta-killed. Go Go Demolisher templates~!
>
> So, the Big Guns are distracted by 460 non-scoring pts.
Yes, because *EVERY* 40K player has ADOS
(Attention Deficit - OH! Shiny!)
Or maybe not.
> Meanwhile, your 3 Scoring MCs waddle onto Objectives.
> (Each orbited by a growing asteroid belt of Gants.)
>
> Then factor-in 126 free bugs over four turns.
LOL! You left out the "and other forms of wish fulfillment." at
the end of your sentence.
> How are your 3 hypothetical Marines doing now?
> Impossible to say? Exactly -
Perhaps impossible for YOU to say. Impossible to calculate highly
probable outcomes? Not so much. I would certainly agree with the
notion that the race isn't *ALWAYS* to the swift, nor the battle
*ALWAYS* to the strong. But in the real world, that's the way smart
money bets if they gamble at all.
>
> Mathhammer is as relevant as Beat Poetry.
So I hear from the trailer park crowd who wonder why the
considerable fortune in Lotto-tickets they've collectively purchased
over the years have never 'paid off' in fleets of expensive automobiles
and lavish mansions. On the up side, those that can't comprehend do
provide a wee bit of public education dollars for some kids who will
eventually grow up understanding math. Hopefully said 'math enabled'
kids maybe even provide (minimum wage) jobs for the kids of the trailer
park some day too.
>
> > odds of 3 of them producing that many per turn without rolling doubles is
>
> Mathhammer says 'better than 50/50'.
Forgot the words 'not much' in front of your 'better than 50/50
odds.' there dude. Those odds place them as being 'just slightly
better' than say "Grot Marksmen" for example. On the plus side, you're
still more likely to accomplish this than win the lottery. Just not
'much more' likely.
> My dice tell me that I can roll doubles the first time.
Nothing useful here.
> Then, I can roll nineteen times in a row without rolling another.
Yes, someone 'eventually' wins the lottery too. Of course the
rest of the (typically millions of) suckers who didn't aren't exactly
proving your point of your scenario as being a routine / likely /
probable outcome. But you know what they say about those who bang their
heads against walls over and over - they can honestly claim "It sure
does feel good when I stop." No one credits them with being the
brightest bulbs in the box though.
Just for the sake of entertainment, I did roll 3D6 x 3 ten times.
Unsurprisingly 1 out of 3 rolled doubles every time. Every... Time...
Your 'scenario' is statistically possible, but there's a term that comes
to mind. "Statistically indistinguishable from zero." Or as Bruce
Campbell would put it "Jack & Shit, and Jack left town."
Planning a game strategy based on 'it's theoretically possible' is
about as intelligent as arguing that planning your retirement around
'once I win the lottery I'm getting a Caddy and moving to Florida' is a
sound strategy. Arguably, some folks do like losing over and over again
as ever increasing Lotto ticket sales don't lie.
>
> Other considerations:
> Borers may be R18 S4 AP5.
> And they may need no LoS to Hit . . .
And Carnifex may be 50 points each in game, and see a sudden price drop
on the model kit at your local GW store too. But I'll believe it when I
see it.
I've seen 1 (one) rumor of 18 inches, and multiple comments from those
who claim to have already seen the finished codex who say 12 inches.
And not one mention of 'no LOS required' either. Besides, why would
they need a range of 18 inches now? Tyranids have flesh hooks...
Myrmidon
--
All good (color) choices, but they don't carry the impact of the #7
"Over-ripe bananagaunt." Nothing says fear the tyranids like slightly
aged fruit.
-Maka
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 22, 10:49 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> Demolisher templates
Remind me: How effective is a Vindicator vs burrowing MCs?
> to calculate highly probable outcomes
This dex looks like like nothing Marines have ever faced before.
Isn't it a bit premature to speak of "highly probable" outcomes?
> So I hear from the trailer park crowd
Pssst! [sotto voce] Your hubris is showing!
Pla - pobody's nerfect - ya
smcdaniel1
"Playa" <johnpau...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6249a412-6676-4b21...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...
FOLLOW THE MONEY.. Oops, wrong thread.
Myrmidon
says...
Maybe not...
GW for climate change?
Myr
--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."
-- Moramarth
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
jockelinde
<snip>
> Sounds boring. I've yet to take a Zilla list for the fact that it
> just doesn't even sound fun to game with - much less against.
I played against two 'zilla lists in a row in a no-comp tournament
this summer with my rather comp-friendly list. I faced a total of 15
monstrous creatures in those two games. It was about as fun as it
sounds (although I managed to score a minor victory in the first
game).
--
Joakim
Myrmidon
0c16c6...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com
says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 22, 10:49 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > Demolisher templates
>
> Remind me: How effective is a Vindicator vs burrowing MCs?
How much scoring do 'burrowed' MC's do again?
>
> > to calculate highly probable outcomes
>
> This dex looks like like nothing Marines have ever faced before.
> Isn't it a bit premature to speak of "highly probable" outcomes?
No. We aren't talking about some archane and unknowable mystical
force here - we're talking about a game based on D6 probablities. It's
fun to 'imagine' that a lowly IG Commissar is going to beat a
Bloodthirster in one on one melee combat, but it's a recipe for routine
disappointment to bank on it in the 40K game system. I find painting
fun, and gaming with friends fun, but I would find little joy in winning
a game (any game) where I knew the other player was 'playing to lose'.
Nor would I find any real fun in 'winning' against an opponent who
simply CANNOT comprehend how to win. We are talking about a game that
is vaguely supposed to include concepts like 'strategy' and 'tactics'
and 'planning'. Applying those concepts *long before* one starts
rolling the dice is part of the package. Did you honestly have to play
a dozen games with the 'Random D6 roll = unit special ability' (rolled
AFTER unit deployment of course) units to figure out that they sucked?
Or were you able to envision probable outcomes to this craptacular piece
of 'game mechanics' prior to fielding said units?
>
> > So I hear from the trailer park crowd
>
> Pssst! [sotto voce] Your hubris is showing!
As opposed to your (current) unwillingness to admit that bad
design happens routinely from GW due to either a lack of comprehension
of D6 mechanics, or a planned design to <ahem> 'encourage' players to
buy the new 'flavor of the month'? Or would we like to review your
complaints about many of the current Codex Chaos units (rightly) sucking
because GW foisted the bullshit notion that 'Random D6 rolls = chaotic &
fun' on unsuspecting Chaos players?
>
> Pla - pobody's nerfect - ya
>
What makes me curious is the fact that you had no problem figuring
out that Gav's steaming gifts to 40K were going to suck before you
fielded an army with the then 'new' Chaos Codex. Why exactly are you
surprised when I'm loathed to see one of my favorite Codex in the 40K
system given the same 'Our suck-o-meter goes to eleven...' treatment?
It isn't as if the 4th Edition Tyranid codex was making the Tyranids a
vastly 'over' nor 'under' powered force in 5th edition 40K. It wasn't
an 'Instant Tournament Win Button' army - but it did have variety and
flexibility (including gun line). Which looks to have been largely
stripped away in favor of "Tournament Chimp - 'win button' army of the
quarter".
Myr
--
Worlds Shortest Battle Reports...
S McDaniel - "My orks were annihilated - The end"
Blackheart - "Same thing happened to my Chaos Space Marines...
But all I did was open the new codex..."
--
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 23, 7:55 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <6249a412-6676-4b21-92c3-
> 0c16c63c8...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
> says...
> > How effective is a Vindicator vs burrowing MCs?
> How much scoring do 'burrowed' MC's do again?
It seems one could sic burrowers on select enemy Units.
Surely Ord would be high on the Threat Assessment list.
> we're talking about a game based on D6 probablities
Rather, on hundreds of *interrelated* Xd6 probabilities.
This precludes extrapolations from a single roll.
Especially when using rumor, not fact!
I understand that it can be done - with mathematical exactitude.
I just don't understand why anyone would bother.
Or get emotional about the result . . .
> It's
> fun to 'imagine' that a lowly IG Commissar is going to beat a
> Bloodthirster in one on one melee combat
Well, that's sorta the point of rumor threads -
Imagining all the possibilities!
What new rules CAN mean.
> it's a recipe for routine
> disappointment to bank on it in the 40K game system
I think this might be a case of apples and oranges -
You're talking about written rule probabilities.
I'm still spinning-out vaporware possibilities.
> your (current) unwillingness to admit that bad
> design happens routinely from GW
Um, I'm not following you here. [scrolls up for review]
Maybe it's just a communication breakdown. I'll summarize:
I'm optimistic new dex dynamics will present new challenges.
I'm not supportive of everything we've seen - but it's rumor.
I just can't go Full Sperglord on mere rumor. ;- )
When the text is before me, I'll join in any nerdrage.
I don't think I have to qualify that statement further. X- D
> you had no problem figuring
> out that Gav's steaming gifts to 40K were going to suck
Iirc (It was September. And, um, 2007.), there was a lot of
"Oh, no way that rumor's true - that's just plain stupid."
In retrospect, my optimism can come off as naivete.
But once I saw the steaming load in black-and-white ...
Anyway, Codex: Eldar/ Orks/ IG seemed almost ... coherent.
That sequence was just enough to get my "optimism" back in place.
And yes, I too marvelled at the shameless pandering of Codex: Win.
But I actually don't mind when enemy dexes get "escalated".
It is quite another thing *entirely* to gut MY army's dex!
Ahem. Yes, I think we're on the same page, there . . .
> It isn't as if the 4th Edition Tyranid codex was making the Tyranids a
> vastly 'over' nor 'under' powered force in 5th edition 40K
Team Obama - to the shame of the US - employs naked payola.
These hacks don't even have the decency to hide their sleaze!
Still, bribery is a winning strategy, with no downside -
If you needn't fear reprisal.
Wait, what were we talking about?
Playa
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 23, 2:48 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> talking about
Another perspective -
Originally posted by stelek:
+++
This is NOT a revision, like the 3rd to 4th edition update. This is a
totally new Codex, built like the Imperial Guard and Space Marine
Codices--designed to last the test of time, through the rest of this
edition and into 6th edition.
In short, GW is changing to meet the demands placed upon it. Part of
those changes is making Codices with so many options there won't be a
single army build, invalidated upon release of a certain codex or new
40k edition.
Of course, the real thing to note is with so many possible unit
combinations--the units themselves need to not suck. I can only see
one or two units I would probably not field, but unlike say
Thunderfire Cannons which are really really hard to use in any army--
it's not that the units themselves suck, they simply don't fit my
personal playstyle. No, I'm not telling you what they are!
In short, this is a totally new Codex. Toss out everything you knew
about Tyranids, what you think worked, and get ready for an entirely
new race with familiar models--because that is what you are going to
get.
Imagine an army able to deal with any toughness build you decide to
bring--are you bringing a lot of MC? Bikers? Plague Marines?
Ah, well, how about if everything in the Tyranid army is built for CC--
and can wound you in said CC on no worse than a 4+?
You see, in an army where everyone gets access to adrenal glands
(furious charge) that's already bad news for most armies as melee
oriented armies with furious charge everywhere are annoyingly bad.
What if, instead of taking that--every unit takes Toxin Sacs? Even MC.
Why would MC want to take poison, you ask?
Remember how Poison works in the USR--if my strength is equal to or
greater than your toughness, I get to re-roll my to-wound rolls.
Combine with a specific Tyrant ability, and suddenly you have mass
carnage. Re-rolls to hit and to wound, you say? Really? That can't be--
surely it would cost too much?
It depends, do you want the enemy to get smothered in wounds, or not?
Now imagine it's a unit of say, Warriors...while a bit expensive when
outfitted this way, poison on warriors = really? Yes, really.
Sure, your Wraithlord can instakill the Warriors now--but are you
really going to send them in to beat face on a squad of 5 Warriors?
You better have fortune up, or you are going to be making a bunch of
poisoned saves. Every MC who isn't S8 is going to flee from Warriors
with poisoned attacks.
Hit on 3+ (4+ against things like DPs), poisoned attacks w/re-rolls to
wound against most troops and IC's...you can (and many will) give them
either adrenal sacs or rending claws for tank busting (whichever suits
your fancy really). Just remember to declare which you are using
(obviously, poison fails against vehicles but +1S or rending does
not).
While vulnerable to heavy weapons (protip: All Tyranid multi-wound
models suck it up against Lascannons. Get used to it!) Warriors are a
fine troop choice, giving you a CC unit that can anchor your troops
against high toughness units and Dreads--they aren't perfect,
obviously, but they are an excellent choice for every Nid army because
they put a threat/synapse unit into Troops, something the Tyranids
currently lack--and free up slots in Elites, HQ, and Heavy for mech
busting utility units.
Things like Hiveguard, Zoanthropes (Elites); Tyrants w/ranged weapons
+ guard are bitches (HQ), and things like Tyranofexes and Carnifexes w/
ranged weapons will also put the pain into your army (Heavy). Add in
troops with poisoned attacks, and if you are forced out of your
vehicles...you will be promptly overrun as no unit can realistically
absorb that many wounds.
Even Guard Infantry combi-platoons won't last long (because even lowly
Gaunts can get a re-roll against your low toughness lol).
Suffice to say, almost everything the Tyranids will be shooting your
vehicles with--are all Toughness 6 with a 2+ or 3+ save (and/or able
to get a cover save) and multiple wounds. Yeah, sucks to be you--if
that's not a heavy weapon with some teeth, well, you can try and
lasrifle or bolter down all of the T6 baddies but with so many of them
spread across so many FOC slots...well, good fucking luck with that.
So, back to MC with poisoned attacks--they already wreck vehicles, but
having essentially a free re-roll to wound against EVERYTHING in the
game (exception: Wraithlords, Talos, and C'Tan...exception to
exception: Carnifexes still re-roll to wound them)...well, suffice to
say your high toughness units won't survive against MC with poison. If
you've ever played against a Nurgle DP (Chaos Demons army) you know
what it's like to be ripped to shit. Imagine now, not only the little
fuckers wound you on a 4+, but they are faster than you--and the big
ones, while slower than you, if they hit...will pretty much fuck you
up and deny you saves.
Think of Tyranids as Chaos Demons, with the following changes:
Imagine a army with sufficient shooting.
They start on the table.
They have good troops.
They have mobility.
They have transports.
You still on foot? Tyranids will love you.
Unfortunately for you, they have the guns they need to crush you if
you deploy on foot.
Simply put, they can outshoot you plenty--we won't even get into
Lictors, Trygons, Fexes, the special beasties, and heaven forbid...the
devious underhanded (ah I'm funny) things the Nids can do to get into
your lines.
Unlike the previous nid incarnations, these Tyranids have figured out
how to hit you at medium (24-36) and long range (36-48). They have
most of these weapons available on infantry (so they get cover saves)
and MC (who can get cover due to various nid rules) so unlike say your
Devastators, they can outtorrent foot armies...because Tyranids can
move and fire, and you can't. Mech, of course, won't enjoy the S6, S8,
S9, and S10 shots being spammed their way by these masses of mini-
obliterators...but at least you can use the mobility afforded by mech
to fight the last stand where you want to fight it.
See, Tyrants will have guns that can hurt you better than before
(awww, they suffer a -1 to the table but if they can pen...you will
take it).
Elites like Hive Guard and Zoanthropes will wreck your face with their
S8 and S10 shots, respectively. Don't worry, they WILL deliver those
shots your way. You'll see.
Warriors have gun options, and are in almost every slot. Heavy slot
Warriors get more guns for you to deal with.
With troops flooding the board and annoying the shit out of you, as
you can't spare a single bullet for them...toss in some hellhound-like
nids, heavies to give the army even more shooting...
Yeah, it's a big foot in your ass. You'll love it, I promise.
+++
Playa
Doctor Rock
[really FAO whatever fuckmusket it was you quoted]:
> "In short, GW is changing to meet the demands placed upon it."
thanks--first time i've LITERALLY laughed out loud at something on the
computer screen all year.
> "... my personal playstyle."
oh choke on a dick
No, I'm not telling you what they are!
> "...get ready for an entirely
> new race with familiar models--because that is what you are
> going to get."
more like get ready for familiar models, with an entirely "new" army
investment dynamic. or in english: get ready to replace all your shit with
more expensive shit.
<snip a whole crapload of impenetrably pretentious jargonisation>
Myrmidon
@m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 23, 2:48 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > talking about
>
> Another perspective -
>
> Originally posted by stelek:
>
> +++
>
> This is NOT a revision, like the 3rd to 4th edition update.
Oh, I'd agree with this...
> This is a
> totally new Codex, built like the Imperial Guard and Space Marine
> Codices--
Oh looky, BULLSHIT by sentence number 2. And SERIOUS BULLSHIT at
that too. The IG did NOT get shoe-horned into a 'Gun-line only' codex.
They've got more flexibility now than they ever did with perhaps the
exception of the RT era days when they had speeders, bikes, and jump
packs, not to mention vortex and plant grenades. The current IG codex
gives them gun-line options out the wazoo. Remind me again of the range
and S value of a Basilisk? Remind me again how much Mech they can take
IN ADDITION TO a metric ass-load of meat-shields with heavy weapons?
And - AND (thanks to special characters) they get 'All out-flanking' IG
armies, IG "Flying Circus" armies, etc TOO.
The Tryanids - did they get Gun-Line options? Not really. Can I take a
purpose built Carnifex with all long range weapon options still? NO.
Do my short ranged weapons get equalizers like 'living ammo' still? NO.
Did ranged weapons like the Barbed Strangler remain at S10 to have at
least some change to pop heavy armor at range? NO.
> designed to last the test of time, through the rest of this
> edition and into 6th edition.
>
In other words, don't expect another codex for say 8 or 10 years.
How's that 'Codex Renegades' errr... 'Codex Chaos Space Marines'
working out for you?
> In short, GW is changing to meet the demands placed upon it.
GW Corporate: <Phone ringing> "Hello, GW Corporate, how can I help
you?"
Caller: "Yes, I'm a GW stock holder, and I'd like a bigger return on my
stocks."
GW Corporate: "No problem. We'll simply retool our rules mechanics to
favor more sales."
Yeah, they're changing to meet demands alrighty...
> Part of
> those changes is making Codices with so many options there won't be a
> single army build, invalidated upon release of a certain codex or new
> 40k edition.
>
Sorry, but no doughnut for you pal. Saying, "You have a choice
between 'Out-flanking Nids'(HTH), or 'Drop-pod Nids' (HTH), or
'Tunneling Circus Nids' (HTH), or hordes of short range or HTH broods
(HTH), is NOT - I say again NOT - giving me more flexibility than in the
current 4th Edition Tyranid codex. NOR is taking away multiple bio-
morphs and giving us nothing but 'everyone gets poison (HTH) and bone
swords (HTH) style mono-culture crap.
I am however getting a pretty good understanding of why it is that
Andy Chambers bailed on GW with the release of 5th Edition while douche-
bags like Gav continue to orbit the fringes if not work there directly.
> Of course, the real thing to note is with so many possible unit
> combinations--the units themselves need to not suck. I can only see
> one or two units I would probably not field, but unlike say
> Thunderfire Cannons which are really really hard to use in any army--
ARE... YOU... FUCKING... KIDDING... ME??!?? Thunderfire Cannons
are 'really really hard to us in any army'. THIS IS THE INDIVIDUAL
whose viewpoint you're seriously offering up? SERIOUSLY!?!
Thunderfire cannons are one big block of cheese (routinely killing
entire 20+ strong troops units in a single round of shooting), and this
lead-paint chip eating, slack jawed, mouth-breathing fuckwit can't
figure out how to deploy and use them successfully?
I can see why he doesn't post shit like that here. This is the
kind of 'GW Marketing' knob-slobbing douche-baggery that would get him
flamed up one side of the NG and down the other. AND RIGHTLY SO.
> it's not that the units themselves suck, they simply don't fit my
> personal playstyle. No, I'm not telling you what they are!
>
Ah, the bullshit 'there are no bad units (I.e. no bad rules
designs) only 'things that don't fit my personal playstyle' argument /
apologist crapola. Sorry, but GW ROUTINELY makes some seriously shitty
rules. (See also - Playa's comments on current Chaos codex 'Chosen plus
random D6 rules'.)
> In short, this is a totally new Codex. Toss out everything you knew
> about Tyranids, what you think worked, and get ready for an entirely
> new race with familiar models--because that is what you are going to
> get.
>
In other words, now that we've fucked over the 40K Chaos fluff and
rules set - we'd like to repeat that process with the Nids. Nothing
does more to endear players to our 'Hobby' than to fuck up what they
love about it.
> Imagine an army able to deal with any toughness build you decide to
> bring--are you bringing a lot of MC? Bikers? Plague Marines?
>
Read "Imagine a codex where the answer to any challenge is HTH,
and more HTH! Isn't that exciting?" No wank-stain, 'Rinse, repeat,
boredom' is NOT a good idea.
> Ah, well, how about if everything in the Tyranid army is built for CC--
> and can wound you in said CC on no worse than a 4+?
Come on Playa - this was your idea of a 'Another Perspective'?
Stelek is saying the EXACT SAME THING I've been saying. The difference
is I'm not trying to smile and sing the praises while gulping down the
corporate cool-aid.
>
> You see, in an army where everyone gets access to adrenal glands
> (furious charge) that's already bad news for most armies as melee
> oriented armies with furious charge everywhere are annoyingly bad.
And this is a plus for those who want to find opponents because?
Hello! Do you not remember 3rd Ed and Tyranids? Or perhaps you've
blotted out the 'fun' for those facing Orky 'Cult of Speed' armies too?
> What if, instead of taking that--every unit takes Toxin Sacs? Even MC.
> Why would MC want to take poison, you ask?
>
> Remember how Poison works in the USR--if my strength is equal to or
> greater than your toughness, I get to re-roll my to-wound rolls.
Wow! MORE ASSAULT BASED STUFF! I'm shocked! Whatever will I base
my Nid army around? I wonder?
>
> Combine with a specific Tyrant ability, and suddenly you have mass
> carnage. Re-rolls to hit and to wound, you say? Really? That can't be--
> surely it would cost too much?
>
Dear fuck-wit, try looking up a rule called 'living ammo'.
> It depends, do you want the enemy to get smothered in wounds, or not?
Do you routinely breath through your mouth? Is 'uncontrollable
drooling moron' a term that describes you? Do you enjoy playing the
exact same game with the highly predictable results time after time? If
so, OUR FRANKLIN MINT ***LIMITED EDITION*** GOLD PLATED DIAMOND
ENCRUSTED 'TIC TAC TOE' SET IS FOR YOU!!!!1!!(one)!!
> Now imagine it's a unit of say, Warriors...while a bit expensive when
> outfitted this way, poison on warriors = really? Yes, really.
Are warriors immune to bolter fire, las rifle fire, or similar
line infantry weapons? NO. Are they still immune to insta-kill from
high S value template weapons? NO. Do they have frag grenades to allow
them to strike simultaneously in HTH versus opponents in cover? NO.
>
> Sure, your Wraithlord can instakill the Warriors now--but are you
> really going to send them in to beat face on a squad of 5 Warriors?
Are you seriously retarded enough to let 5 warriors into HTH range
without shooting at them at least 1 turn?
> You better have fortune up, or you are going to be making a bunch of
> poisoned saves. Every MC who isn't S8 is going to flee from Warriors
> with poisoned attacks.
Or just shoot the shit out of them before they ever reach HTH...
>
> Hit on 3+ (4+ against things like DPs), poisoned attacks w/re-rolls to
> wound against most troops and IC's...you can (and many will) give them
> either adrenal sacs or rending claws for tank busting (whichever suits
> your fancy really). Just remember to declare which you are using
> (obviously, poison fails against vehicles but +1S or rending does
> not).
>
Wow - HTH options OR MORE HTH OPTIONS! The Nids are just rolling
in so many different 'options'. I'm UNDERWHELMED.
> While vulnerable to heavy weapons (protip: All Tyranid multi-wound
> models suck it up against Lascannons. Get used to it!)
Dear fuckwit - see also Earthshaker Cannons, Vindicators, etc. A
squad of Termies with stormbolters and an ass-cannon can and routinely
do vaporize 5 or 6 strong warrior units in a single turn with the 4th Ed
codex. But, the warriors can't be insta-killed... Yeah, so what?
Heavy bolters, auto-cannons and assault cannons made mince meat out of
them consistently. Massed bolter or stormbolter fire, and even las-gun
fire did too. Now large blast templates can insta-kill entire units.
Woohoo!
> Warriors are a
> fine troop choice, giving you a CC unit that can anchor your troops
> against high toughness units and Dreads--they aren't perfect,
> obviously, but they are an excellent choice for every Nid army because
> they put a threat/synapse unit into Troops, something the Tyranids
> currently lack--and free up slots in Elites, HQ, and Heavy for mech
> busting utility units.
Wow! Nothing like having HTH units support your short range
units. Boy, that'll show the enemy gun line how you hold objectives!
>
> Things like Hiveguard, Zoanthropes (Elites); Tyrants w/ranged weapons
> + guard are bitches (HQ), and things like Tyranofexes and Carnifexes w/
> ranged weapons will also put the pain into your army (Heavy). Add in
> troops with poisoned attacks, and if you are forced out of your
> vehicles...you will be promptly overrun as no unit can realistically
> absorb that many wounds.
Hiveguard can't kill Raiders & Crusaders, have little chance against
Russ, and anemic range..
Zoans have to roll to see if their powers work (Do las-cannons have
jamming rules? Didn't think so.) AND have a fraction of the range of a
Las-cannon or similar heavy weapons.
Tyrants with 'ranged' heavy weapons AND HTH bio-morphs. Because
'throwing a scything talon' across the table at a tank is a highly
effective use of points in game. Same for 'one heavy weapon only'
Carnifex too.
As for the Tyranofex, why I'll run right out and buy two of those
models. Oh wait, I'll have to buy two models just to Kit-bash one
Tyranofex of my own. That'll be quick and inexpensive...
>
> Even Guard Infantry combi-platoons won't last long (because even lowly
> Gaunts can get a re-roll against your low toughness lol).
Are you shitting me? If current codex I4 S3 (generic) gaunts on
the charge can't take IG meat-shields without needing a 're-roll lulz'
you have an intellect rivaled only by garden tools.
>
> Suffice to say, almost everything the Tyranids will be shooting your
> vehicles with--are all Toughness 6 with a 2+ or 3+ save (and/or able
> to get a cover save) and multiple wounds.
Who gives a flying-fuck about the shooters T value? It's the
weapon's Strength value and Range that counts when it comes to popping
vehicles. T6, good saves and multiple wounds count if you're foot
slogging it into HTH range. They have dick all to do with popping armor
at range. "Please ignore the man behind the curtain - for I am the all
powerful OZ." Nice try there at misdirection but it isn't working.
Either that or the OP is a mouth-breathing fuckwit with no comprehension
of the rules.
> Yeah, sucks to be you--if
> that's not a heavy weapon with some teeth, well, you can try and
> lasrifle or bolter down all of the T6 baddies but with so many of them
> spread across so many FOC slots...well, good fucking luck with that.
Dear fuckwit - lasrifle and bolter down all of the small fragile bugs
while your templates insta-kill the low T multi-wounds. This leaves
plenty of Heavy Weapons (tm) to fire on the big bugs and grind them up
too.
And remind me again how many Nid opponents were raving about the 'fun'
of playing against 'Nidzilla' armies again?
>
> So, back to MC with poisoned attacks--they already wreck vehicles, but
> having essentially a free re-roll to wound against EVERYTHING in the
> game (exception: Wraithlords, Talos, and C'Tan...exception to
> exception: Carnifexes still re-roll to wound them)...well, suffice to
> say your high toughness units won't survive against MC with poison.
And the Nids are/will be facing off against armies with 6
Wraithlords, or a squadron of 3 C'Tan in them on a routine basis? NO.
Will they be facing off against things like multiple Russ and Raiders or
Crusaders? YES.
> If
> you've ever played against a Nurgle DP (Chaos Demons army) you know
> what it's like to be ripped to shit. Imagine now, not only the little
> fuckers wound you on a 4+, but they are faster than you--and the big
> ones, while slower than you, if they hit...will pretty much fuck you
> up and deny you saves.
Ahhh, this 'definitely' supports the 'shooty Nid army' concept.
>
> Think of Tyranids as Chaos Demons, with the following changes:
If I wanted to play a shit army like 'Chaos Demons' - I would have
BOUGHT Chaos Demons minis and their codex instead you fuckwit.
>
> Imagine a army with sufficient shooting.
This from a fuckwit who thinks (and I quote) "Thunderfire Cannons
which are really really hard to use in any army." This person
obviously can NOT comprehend the difference between 'I hit a vehicle'
and 'I disabled or destroyed a vehicle' when it comes to shooting.
Hearing 'sufficient shooting' from this retard is NOT going to convince
anyone with an IQ above room temperature that his 'view' is even vaguely
in alignment with reality.
> They start on the table.
Like Orks, Elder, Dark Eldar, IG, Marines (of various flavors),
etc, etc, etc. In other words, just like any other army that doesn't
have to start in reserve. Woohoo - they're not a total clone of 'Chaos
Demons'.
> They have good troops.
Vague, and unqualified in any quantifiable way. Define 'good'.
Do they have 'good' armor saves? NO.
Do they have 'good' LD values on their own when out of synapse? With
the exception of genestealers, NO.
Do they typically have ranged weapons with a 24 inch range? NO.
Do they have 'Without number' now? NO.
> They have mobility.
They get to run - just like every other army. Some of the units
might have fleet - just like some units in virtually every other army.
> They have transports.
Really? The've got Rhinos and Razorbacks? NO. They get
Malefactors that can serve as mobile LOS blocks and be used to create
'sniping opportunities' for heavy weapons just like Rhinos and
Razorbacks? NO. They get drop-pods. A one use, one trick army
gimmick. Am I impressed? NO.
>
> You still on foot? Tyranids will love you.
Do you have $100 bills hanging out of your pockets? Pick-pockets
will love you! Moral of the story - don't be an idiot. Sadly it's
obviously lost on the OP.
>
> Unfortunately for you, they have the guns they need to crush you if
> you deploy on foot.
>
<Samuel Jackson voice> Solution - 5th Edition IG Codex. Can you read
it motherfucker? <end voice.>
Playa, Stelek obviously has been living in a box (apparently with
insufficient oxygen flow) for months now if he's trying to peddle this
tripe as some sort of 'revelation' as to why the upcoming dex is uber-
733t.
> Simply put, they can outshoot you plenty--we won't even get into
> Lictors, Trygons, Fexes, the special beasties, and heaven forbid...
With the apparent and appalling lack of IQ this person displays,
having an 'intelligent conversation' isn't on the list of things this
individual is ever going to accomplish.
The Tyranids DID NOT suffer from a lack of short and medium range anti-
infantry shooting ability with the 4th Ed codex under the 5th Ed rules
set. Where they suffered vastly was in the medium and long ranged anti-
vehicle capacity - particularly against heavy armor. Nerfing many of
the longer ranged weapons - and vastly limiting the number of heavy
weapons that the big bugs can take does NOT equal 'improved' anti-armor
ability at range. The only real gain is a net increase in the number of
MCs fielded just to break even. Which is great for GW accounting. For
Nid players? Not so much.
> the
> devious underhanded (ah I'm funny) things the Nids can do to get into
> your lines.
OMG! 'Tunneling Circus' Tyranids! <Chuckle, snort!, gaffaw!>
>
> Unlike the previous nid incarnations, these Tyranids have figured out
> how to hit you at medium (24-36) and long range (36-48).
Hitting a vehicle and DAMAGING it are two entirely different
things. I'm highly curious to see this supposed list of 'long range'
Nid weapons that will damage heavy enemy armor and can be taken in
quatities to get the job done - without using the same Nidzilla army
every time... "Rinse, Repeat, Boredom"
> They have
> most of these weapons available on infantry (so they get cover saves)
They don't have anti-vehicle weapons on infantry. Oh - cover
saves. Remember that Thunderfire cannon you brought up earlier you
dumbfuck? Two words "Air burst" - it means no cover saves dumbass.
> and MC (who can get cover due to various nid rules) so unlike say your
> Devastators, they can outtorrent foot armies...because Tyranids can
> move and fire, and you can't.
And with a 12 to 18 inch range on the typical Tyranid infantry
weapons - they're going to HAVE TO MOVE just to get into range. Those
Devastators aren't if placed properly by the controlling player. And
odds are good that those Devs are going to be capable of easily popping
light and medium armor too - something the Nid infantry won't be doing
at range.
> Mech, of course, won't enjoy the S6, S8,
> S9, and S10 shots being spammed their way by these masses of mini-
> obliterators...
What fucking crack pipe is he smoking? S6 won't phase a Russ at
all, and S8 has a 1/6th chance of scoring a pen hit, which still only
has a less than 50% chance of knocking out the vehicle. S8 can't even
Pen a Raider or a Crusader. Which models are going to be 'spamming' out
S9 and S10 shots? The $300 worth of Carnifex models armed with one
heavy weapon each? Or the 'scratch built' uber Nids?
> but at least you can use the mobility afforded by mech
> to fight the last stand where you want to fight it.
Ah, tunneling and/or drop-podding MCs every time. I think maybe
I've mentioned the 'Rinse, Repeat, Boredom' thing before...
>
> See, Tyrants will have guns that can hurt you better than before
> (awww, they suffer a -1 to the table but if they can pen...you will
> take it).
And of course Fex, who typically have BS 2 or 3 will be able to
take multiple heavy weapons to make up for their 50/50 hit
probabilities? NO.
>
> Elites like Hive Guard and Zoanthropes will wreck your face with their
> S8 and S10 shots, respectively. Don't worry, they WILL deliver those
> shots your way. You'll see.
>
HG with 24 inch range S8 is only scary to transports. Russ aren't
going to be worried, and Hydra, etc will out range you easily. Land
Raiders will ignore you.
As for Zoans - S10 is combined with a range of 18 inches (short) and
with a Zoan that moves 6 inches and won't be shooting if it fleets or
runs. AND it has to pass an LD test to fire the lance at all. When's
the last time a Basilisk or even a Krak missile had to make a 'weapon
jam' roll? Short range combined with slow movement and possible 'no
fire' rolls don't exactly make a fearsome tank killer unless your
opponent is also a mental midget.
> Warriors have gun options, and are in almost every slot.
And are still vulnerable to most infantry weapons, and can be insta-
killed, and can be insta-killed en-mass with template weapons, and can't
kill armored vehicles reliably at medium, much less long range.
> Heavy slot
> Warriors get more guns for you to deal with.
And are still vulnerable to most infantry weapons, and can be insta-
killed, and can be insta-killed en-mass with template weapons, and can't
kill heavily armored vehicles reliably at medium, much less long range -
which is generally the point to taking 'heavy slot' troops in the first
place.
>
> With troops flooding the board and annoying the shit out of you,
Wow, we never saw troops flooding the board with the 'without
number' rules using the current codex. And of course - poor armor
saves, combined with a lack of armored transports, instinct behavior
rules, gaming boards typically with moderate cover and minimul area
terrain, and no 'without number' rules all lead up to troops units that
will be idea in two-thirds of the scenarios which revolve around holding
objectives with troops units.
> as
> you can't spare a single bullet for them...toss in some hellhound-like
> nids, heavies to give the army even more shooting...
Is he refering to Pyro-vores which apparently DO NOT fire their
templates long distance like Hellhounds? I'm not saying I won't buy any
Pyro-vores. I simply won't be FIELDING them as pyro-vores. Bio-vores,
but not Pyros.
>
> Yeah, it's a big foot in your ass. You'll love it, I promise.
>
No, for GW's part it's actually a steaming pile of bullshit
designed to encourage more spending by invalidating current Tyranid
gamer's previous Tyranid purchases simply because it pleases the GW
accountants and shareholders.
Stelek makes multiple supported arguments about how the Nids will
dominate in HTH, but none of his 'they can shoot too' arguments pan out
under scrutiny. Not to mention the dumbass comment about the TF Cannon
pretty much destroying any credibility the speaker might of had when it
came to having a solid grasp of the game.
Al pretty well sums him up with...
> "...get ready for an entirely
> new race with familiar models--because that is what you are
> going to get."
more like get ready for familiar models, with an entirely "new" army
investment dynamic. or in english: get ready to replace all your shit
with more expensive shit.
Amen.
I'll snag some of the models, but I'm going to bet that it won't be long
before people (including me) grow tired of the same tired tyranid
refrain in army design. "There's HTH, or HTH, or more HTH, and maybe
some short ranged shooting AND HTH."
--
"I'm already impoverished from buying wargames minis,
and I'm too knackered for riotous living..."
-- Moramarth
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 24, 2:56 am, "Doctor Rock" <mala...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > "In short, GW is changing to meet the demands placed upon it."
> thanks--first time i've LITERALLY laughed out loud at something on the
> computer screen all year.
Having seen that, I knew I had to c/p it for posterity.
Ho ho ho!
Playa
Myrmidon
@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
Myr :P
--
I'll thank you not to associate me with organised religions. I don't
mind accusations of gay incestual pedophilia, but being called a
Catholic is a bit strong.
- Kurt
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 24, 3:12 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <b467c1a3-ed0e-4b48-825e-26d769a4cf96
> @m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> ARE... YOU... FUCKING... KIDDING... ME?
Dude, I had tears in my eyes. No joke.
> Playa's comments on current Chaos codex
For those playing along at home -
dX statlines are a lazy game mechanic.
If you're designing a game, please - don't be "that guy".
> Come on Playa - this was your idea of a 'Another Perspective'?
Heehee. More like "fresh meat". ;- )
> Stelek is saying the EXACT SAME THING I've been saying.
Oh, I thought I detected a few conflicts. ;- )
> FRANKLIN MINT ***LIMITED EDITION*** GOLD PLATED DIAMOND
> ENCRUSTED 'TIC TAC TOE' SET
It's funny, because it's (possibly) true!
> 5th Edition IG Codex. Can you read it motherfucker?
Ha!
> Playa, Stelek obviously has been living in a box (apparently with
> insufficient oxygen flow) for months now
I read that "GW rises to the challenge" part and fell out.
This whole screed was a blog post. A three-parter!
I trimmed a few 'more about me' bits.
> a steaming pile of bullshit
> designed to encourage more spending by invalidating current Tyranid
> gamer's previous Tyranid purchases
Your are wise in the ways of the merchant.
Yet I sense a certain ... sadness in your wisdom.
Playa
Myrmidon
@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
For some odd reason your replys to my posts are showing up as
date-stamped from a time before I've even posted. You're a time
traveling Necron aren't you! (Detroit - they've got to be doing
something with all those production lines.)
> On Dec 24, 3:12 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <b467c1a3-ed0e-4b48-825e-26d769a4cf96
> > @m16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> > ARE... YOU... FUCKING... KIDDING... ME?
>
> Dude, I had tears in my eyes. No joke.
This is why I have so little use for 'Message Boards' that coddle
the weak minded and suffer clueless tools. I can understand that many
folks aren't native english speakers, but there's not shortage of 'born
here' fooks who can't parse a sentence nor follow basic deductive logic
to its conclusion. Just because one has the right to flaunt their
cluelessness doesn't mean that one should do it. Fortunately for the OP
"Stupidity is not a crime - you're free to go."
>
> > Playa's comments on current Chaos codex
>
> For those playing along at home -
> dX statlines are a lazy game mechanic.
> If you're designing a game, please - don't be "that guy".
I'm wondering if I should take a look at a 'Statistics for
Dummies' book and design a D10 based gaming system that would work
better in terms of balance vs points cost.
>
> > Come on Playa - this was your idea of a 'Another Perspective'?
>
> Heehee. More like "fresh meat". ;- )
Dude! I seriously would taser this idiot if given a chance.
>
> > Stelek is saying the EXACT SAME THING I've been saying.
>
> Oh, I thought I detected a few conflicts. ;- )
You know that I meant about 'HTH and MORE HTH' portions. :P
>
> > FRANKLIN MINT ***LIMITED EDITION*** GOLD PLATED DIAMOND
> > ENCRUSTED 'TIC TAC TOE' SET
>
> It's funny, because it's (possibly) true!
Hell, the 'inventor' of the 'Pet Rock' made over 3 Million
dollars...
>
> > 5th Edition IG Codex. Can you read it motherfucker?
>
> Ha!
>
Las-guns are really really hard to use in any army...
> > Playa, Stelek obviously has been living in a box (apparently with
> > insufficient oxygen flow) for months now
>
> I read that "GW rises to the challenge" part and fell out.
> This whole screed was a blog post. A three-parter!
> I trimmed a few 'more about me' bits.
>
I like Emo, and ponies, and I'd conquer the world if I could only
tie my own shoes...
> > a steaming pile of bullshit
> > designed to encourage more spending by invalidating current Tyranid
> > gamer's previous Tyranid purchases
>
> Your are wise in the ways of the merchant.
> Yet I sense a certain ... sadness in your wisdom.
>
Honestly, I do enjoy winning a hard fought game against a skillful
opponent. But I'd be embarrassed to show up with 3 Trygon varients and
a load of Raveners, or a drop-pod Nidzilla army every game just to be
able to 'win' in a friendly game. I don't even like talking loads of
'out-flanking' genestealers all that much now as it just makes every
game one where the opponent turtles in the center.
What really depresses me is the glee with which members of various
boards talk about 'hacking up' or 'breaking the arms off' of their
current Tyranid MCs to rebuild them to suit GW's 'sales pitch of the
quarter'. Man am I glad I used magnets. I'm more depressed still about
the idea of having to 'house-rules' so damn much. Having to write my
own codex in essence to avoid the "3 HTH varient lists for instant 'Win
Button' action." kind of boredom truly sucks.
As much as I like the Tyranids old backstory and fluff and I want to be
excited by new models and a new codex - I'm hard pressed to find much
joy in the concept of the 'New Nids' based on the more credible rumors
we've heard to date. Doubtless I'll pick up some of the models, but I'm
not enthused by the idea of playing 40K with the new Nid codex if it
plays even remotely as repetative as it looks to be.
Myrmidon
--
RGMW has always been brutally honest. It's probably why we're
considered the scum of the GW gaming community.
- Fog
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 24, 5:54 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <7e6ccdaf-e9b7-47d1-8aab-7e5a44b44571
> @a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> your replys to my posts are showing up as
> date-stamped from a time before I've even posted
Somehow I knew you were going to say that . . .
> This is why I have so little use for 'Message Boards' that coddle
> the weak minded and suffer clueless tools
The inevitable result of the dissolution of the GW boards.
And now, every exhibitionist in the world has a blog.
Thank you, Al Gore.
> the 'inventor' of the 'Pet Rock' made over 3 Million
Chicken feed. The real money is in selling your Pet Crock.
But I think I've harped on manbearpig enough for one post.
> write my
> own codex in essence to avoid the "3 HTH varient lists
Welcome to "streamlining".
I don't remember Jervis mentioning it was for non-SM only.
Then I remembered the huge statue adorning GWHQ's front lawn.
> boredom truly sucks
Imagine having generic lesser bug Troops w/ no weapons or ASvs.
GLBs are always Forced Reserves and can get no upgrades.
All your fluff is ripped out and used like Kleenex.
Your favorite Units? All "streamlined" down to 2-D.
Then, a month later, GW unveils Codex: Tyrachnids. Brilliant!
All of the flavor and variety they stripped from YOUR dex -
But now with two more legs!!!!111!!eleven!1
But, I digress.
You were saying something about disappointment?
Playa
smcdaniel1
"Myrmidon" <Im...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.259dbb258...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <7e6ccdaf-e9b7-47d1-8aab-7e5a44b44571
> @a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> Hey,
>>
> For some odd reason your replys to my posts are showing up as
> date-stamped from a time before I've even posted. You're a time
> traveling Necron aren't you! (Detroit - they've got to be doing
> something with all those production lines.)
And Phil's replies are going into my "Tunecore" folder. Go figure...
--
Sir Scott "Debby made roast beast..! " McDaniel
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 24, 8:26 pm, "smcdaniel1" <smcdani...@cox.net> wrote:
> Go figure
Originally posted by Codex: Teutonids:
Alle Infanterieeinheiten der Tyraniden, die in folgenden Zügen aus der
Reserve eintreffen, dürfen das vom Trygon angelegte Tunnelnetzwerk
verwenden und aus dem Tunnelausgang kommen, anstatt das Spielfield
normal zu betreten. Wenn sich eine Einheit dafür entscheidet, so
aufgestellt zu werden, platzierst du die gesamte Enheit so, dass sich
alle Modelle in legaler Formation innerhalb von 6 Zoll um den Marker
befinden. Wenn Modelle augrend von unpassierbarem Gelände oder
feindlichen Modellen innerhalb von 1 Zoll night platziert werden
konnen, sind diese Modelle vernichtet. Die Einheit darf sich in dem
Spielzug, in dem sie erscheint, nicht bewegen und keini
Angriffsbewegung durchführen, darf aber normal schieBen und rennen. In
einem Spielzug darf durch jeden Tunnelausgang nicht mehr alts eine
Einheit das Schlachtfeld betreten.
+++
English translation:
All infantry units of the Tyranids, which may happen in the following
lines from the reserve to use the tunnel created by the Trygon network
and come out of the tunnel exit, instead of entering the Game Fair
Field. If a unit is positioned so chooses, so you place the entire
Enheit so that all models are legal in the formation within 6 inches
to the marker. If models can be placed augrend night by impassable
terrain or enemy models within 1 inch, these models are destroyed. The
unit may not move into the turn in which they appear and perform Keini
offensive movement, but may normally push and run. In a move allowed
by each tunnel exit is no longer a unit alts enter the battlefield.
+++
Detroit translation:
Infantry Deep Striking from Gon tunnels can't move or assault that
turn.
They may still Run and Shoot if normally allowed to do so.
First impression:
Ouchie.
Playa
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 25, 8:12 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> First impression:
> Ouchie.
Second impression (of German version of the preview draft):
+++
Special Rules for Unique Weapons, Melee Weapons and Bug Psi.
Also Synapse, Shadow, Instinctive, Lurking and Eating Habits.
That's it - no new definition of Living Ammo.
No universal Fleet and MTC as hoped. Highlights:
5-10 Ymgarls 6044162104+ 23ppm w/ Claws/ MTC/ Fleet, etc.
3-9 Warriors 5344343104+ 30ppm w/ Scythes/ Gun @18in S4 AP- A3
5-20 Stealers 6044162105+ 14ppm w/ Claws/ MTC/ Fleet/ Infiltrate,
etc.
10-30 Gants 333314166+ 5ppm w/ MTC/ Instinct/ Gun @12in S4 AP5 A1
10-30 Gaunts 333315266+ 6ppm w/ Fleet/ Flank/ MTC/ Instinct/ Scythes,
etc.
3-9 Ripper Swarm 223332456+ 10ppb w/ Fearless/ Instinct/ Opt 12in S3
AP5 Gun 5ppb
3-9 Wing Warriors 5344343105+ 35ppm w/ Scythes/ Gun @18in S4 AP- A3,
etc.
10-30 Gargoyles 333314166+ 6ppm w/ Blinding/ Gun @12in S4 AP5 A1,
etc.
3-6 Spore Mine INFANTRY --1111-1- 10ppm w/ Orbital/ Living Bomb rule
1-3 Carnifex MC 339641473+ 160ppm w/ 2pr Scythe/ Instinct/ Fearless/
Living Ram rule
0-1 One Eye MC 33 10 641483+ *260PTS!* w/ Scythes/ Claws/ Alpha/
Fearless/ Ram/ Regen, etc.
1-3 Biovore Infantry 334421164+ 45ppm w/ Instinct/ Living Bomb, etc.
Landing Spore MC = 2264431354+ 40ppm w/ Lash/ 5 def gun options, etc.
Spore = R48 S4 AP4 A1
Sting = R36 S4 AP5 A1 B5 Suppressive
Acid Cannon = R36 S9 AP4 A1 B
Thorn Cannon = R36 S6 AP5 A1 B5 Suppressive
Harpoon Cannon = R24 S8 AP4 A2
+++
Could be worse
Playa
Myrmidon
f00883...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com
says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 25, 8:12 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > First impression:
> > Ouchie.
>
> Second impression (of German version of the preview draft):
>
> +++
>
> Special Rules for Unique Weapons, Melee Weapons and Bug Psi.
> Also Synapse, Shadow, Instinctive, Lurking and Eating Habits.
> That's it - no new definition of Living Ammo.
>
> No universal Fleet and MTC as hoped. Highlights:
>
MTC? Can't recall that acronym.
> 5-10 Ymgarls 6044162104+ 23ppm w/ Claws/ MTC/ Fleet, etc.
>
Not all that different unless stats are altered.
> 3-9 Warriors 5344343104+ 30ppm w/ Scythes/ Gun @18in S4 AP- A3
So, are they just limited to some form of Devourer now and not
Deathspitters? If so, that sucks. Loads of small template fire made
them rather effective, while synapse gave them some staying power to
anchor the bug lines.
>
> 5-20 Stealers 6044162105+ 14ppm w/ Claws/ MTC/ Fleet/ Infiltrate,
> etc.
Hmmm, wonder why they're so much less expensive than the Ymgarls?
>
> 10-30 Gants 333314166+ 5ppm w/ MTC/ Instinct/ Gun @12in S4 AP5 A1
Nothing surprising here. Just a confirmation of their reduced
usefullness. No WON, no living ammo, & no improved weapon range.
People keep acting like huge units of squishy infantry are some how more
durable or useful. After about 20 models, the unit becomes hard to
find cover for and is generally just plain 'template bait'. Area
terrain isn't extremely plentiful in most table setups, and there are
plenty of weapons (like the fookin' Thunder Cannon) that just out-right
ignore cover saves anyway.
>
> 10-30 Gaunts 333315266+ 6ppm w/ Fleet/ Flank/ MTC/ Instinct/ Scythes,
> etc.
Massive points drop - obviously they didn't sell enough of these
during 4th Edition. Tyranid weather man forecasts "Increased Gaunt
swarms with high probability of out-flanking stealers and Broodlord,
followed by Flying Uber-HTH Tyrants if available."
>
> 3-9 Ripper Swarm 223332456+ 10ppb w/ Fearless/ Instinct/ Opt 12in S3
> AP5 Gun 5ppb
>
Still a useless non-scoring unit that's only mediocure as a tar-
pit unit at best.
> 3-9 Wing Warriors 5344343105+ 35ppm w/ Scythes/ Gun @18in S4 AP- A3,
> etc.
>
At lease it sounds like GW dropped the idea of wings taking away a
weapons slot. Otherwise not stunning without a look at their stat line.
> 10-30 Gargoyles 333314166+ 6ppm w/ Blinding/ Gun @12in S4 AP5 A1,
> etc.
Blinding? Otherwise nothing overly impressive. Between the
better points cost and the new plastics these should at least sell well.
>
> 3-6 Spore Mine INFANTRY --1111-1- 10ppm w/ Orbital/ Living Bomb rule
>
Not really impressed since they apparently no longer have any
great anti-vehicle use. With IG Mech being the 'new black' (Go John
Hwang!), nerfing the majority of long ranged fire leaves little
effective option but to 'Nidzilla' out one's force and tunnel / deep
strike like a mad bastard.
> 1-3 Carnifex MC 339641473+ 160ppm w/ 2pr Scythe/ Instinct/ Fearless/
> Living Ram rule
>
Living Ram rule?
> 0-1 One Eye MC 33 10 641483+ *260PTS!* w/ Scythes/ Claws/ Alpha/
> Fearless/ Ram/ Regen, etc.
So, it's a Carnifex with synapse? Regeneration has consistantly
impressed me as being a huge point sink and utter waste.
>
> 1-3 Biovore Infantry 334421164+ 45ppm w/ Instinct/ Living Bomb, etc.
>
> Spore = R48 S4 AP4 A1
Better anti-infantry, worse anti-vehicle. Which translates as
better vs IG, Eldar, & Orks - against Marines, not so much.
> Landing Spore MC = 2264431354+ 40ppm w/ Lash/ 5 def gun options, etc.
>
Followed by a round of standing at point blank range in front of
the enemy guns. I can see why one would have to drop-pod everything in
& pray they got good reserve rolls. Otherwise their entire force gets
destroyed piecemeal.
>
> Sting = R36 S4 AP5 A1 B5 Suppressive
>
No idea what this one is supposed to be...
> Acid Cannon = R36 S9 AP4 A1 B
I have to ask, is this the 'heavy' venom cannon and limited to
only certain models, or is it the one that now takes a -3 on the vehicle
damage table?
>
> Thorn Cannon = R36 S6 AP5 A1 B5 Suppressive
The barbed strangler, down from a max of S10 - nice nerf. Fine
against infantry, against vehicles, not so much.
>
> Harpoon Cannon = R24 S8 AP4 A2
Ah, all the range of a Vindicator combined with the anti-vehicle
power of a crack missile. It'll kill a few transports - once they're
almost on top of you...
> +++
>
> Could be worse
True. But it would have taken a lot of work to get Gav to rewrite
the fluff *AND* have McVey do all the sculpting at the same time...
Myr
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 26, 9:50 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <eec0a9e1-9e48-469b-bf5b-
> f00883813...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
> says...
> 'Eating Habits'?
Under Instinctive Behaviour are Lurk and "fressen".
That's likely the "move toward Cover/ Assault" fluff.
Incredibly, Gargoyles default to Lurk.
> MTC?
Move Through Cover.
Kicking yourself now, aren't you?
> > Ymgarls 6044162104+
> Not all that different unless stats are altered
Those are the stats.
Ymgarls are the magical supergorillas from _Congo_.
> > 3-9 Warriors 5344343104+ 30ppm w/ Scythes/ Gun @18in S4 AP- A3
> are they just limited to some form of Devourer now and not
> Deathspitters?
I showed the default loadouts for the points cost indicated.
(I just hit the highlights as my Deutsche-fu is so weak.)
That said, Warrior options (may) include:
A brood may swap its Scythes for -
Crushing Claws +5ppm; Boneswords +10; Lash & Bone +15
One Warrior per brood may exchange its Devourer for -
Strangler +10pts; Venom Cannon +15
All may exchange their Devourer for -
Crushing Claws or Spinefist +0ppm; Acid Spray +5
All may have -
Adrenal +5ppm; Poison +5
> > 5-20 Stealers 6044162105+ 14ppm
> wonder why they're so much less expensive than the Ymgarls?
Armour Save. Plus -Ymgarls are invisible, remember? :- P
> People keep acting like huge units of squishy infantry are some how more
> durable or useful
Someone at GW finally watched _Starship Troopers_.
Nid lists are now to be Brain-Bug-with-attendants armies.
The kick is, the little attendant bugs are the Scoring Units.
This is the sort of thing a future WD article will call "creative".
Note: It doesn't matter if we hate Regen - if GW likes it, we'll use
it.
If GW likes Starship Troopers why, just buy the models and deal.
kthxbye!
> Flying Uber-HTH Tyrants
Basic Rant -
0-2 8366454103+ 170pt MC w/ Scythes, Lash/ Sword, Synapse, Shadow,
Psi.
WIngs +60; 2+ ASv 40; Thorax Swarm (3 flavors!) 25; Regen 20.
Adrenal +10; Poison 10; Acid Blood 15; Miasma 15.
Uber Rant -
0-1 9366564103+ *280PT* MC ist der Strangely Cunning Swarm Fuhrer! X-
D
Boneswords, Shadow, Psi (+ Psi Monstrosity!), Synapse, Sonic Shield.
Psi HQs are as close as you're likely to get to army-wide bonuses.
Evidently, GW wants to introduce Warmachine mechanics.
But not really - no, actually BETTER than Warmachine.
In fact, "Warmachine" doesn't even exist. Shut up!
> a useless non-scoring unit that's only mediocure as a tar-pit unit
Sorry to break it to you like this, but Nid Troops are all like that
now.
Their ineffectiveness -alone- is the whole Marketing spearhead.
Hordes MUST be accompanied by expensive models now.
> Blinding?
Out of the Sun? Eye-watering Stench? Unknown.
The English descriptors usually end-up just as silly.
> they apparently no longer have any great anti-vehicle use.
New Units have been developed for such mission-critical duties.
Coincidentally, these are represented with expensive new models.
As such, crusty OLD Units couldn't rightly compete, now could they?
> Living Ram rule?
No time! You should be gluing a 2nd eye onto OOE right now!
> > Landing Spore MC = 2264431354+ 40ppm w/ Lash/ 5 def gun options, etc.
> Followed by a round of standing at point blank range in front of the enemy
It's got two sorts of Tentacle for CC - Lash and, possibly, Hentai
(?).
The German is literally "Deciduous Whip", and a good thing too -
Cuz, Coniferous Whip would have been totally broken!
> > Acid Cannon = R36 S9 AP4 A1 B
> is this the 'heavy' venom cannon
Ja, der Schwere Biozidkanone.
> limited to only certain models
Rant and Fex.
> the one that now takes a -3 on the vehicle damage table?
Minus one, but yes.
> all the range of a Vindicator combined with the anti-vehicle
> power of a crack missile. It'll kill a few transports - once they're
> almost on top of you
Yeah, I guess Timid Nids are a thing of the past.
Just rush everything into CC and what happens, happens.
Now, all you need to do is figure out the Nid 'Biker Nob' Unit.
Waaargh, the Nids!
> get Gav to rewrite the fluff *AND* have McVey do all the sculpting
[shudder] Dude, don't even joke about that.
Playa
Myrmidon
22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 26, 9:50 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <eec0a9e1-9e48-469b-bf5b-
> > f00883813...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
> > says...
> > 'Eating Habits'?
>
> Under Instinctive Behaviour are Lurk and "fressen".
> That's likely the "move toward Cover/ Assault" fluff.
> Incredibly, Gargoyles default to Lurk.
>
'cover' and which is the nearest, etc.
> > MTC?
>
> Move Through Cover.
> Kicking yourself now, aren't you?
You mean to tell me that the Nids no longer have the equivolent of
frag grenades, no MTC, and no armor saves to speak of?
>
> > > Ymgarls 6044162104+
> > Not all that different unless stats are altered
>
> Those are the stats.
> Ymgarls are the magical supergorillas from _Congo_.
>
Do they come with the 4+ armor saves?
> > > 3-9 Warriors 5344343104+ 30ppm w/ Scythes/ Gun @18in S4 AP- A3
> > are they just limited to some form of Devourer now and not
> > Deathspitters?
>
> I showed the default loadouts for the points cost indicated.
> (I just hit the highlights as my Deutsche-fu is so weak.)
> That said, Warrior options (may) include:
>
> A brood may swap its Scythes for -
> Crushing Claws +5ppm; Boneswords +10; Lash & Bone +15
With the new claws rules, why would anyone take those? Or the
lash and bs combo for that matter?
>
> One Warrior per brood may exchange its Devourer for -
> Strangler +10pts; Venom Cannon +15
>
> All may exchange their Devourer for -
> Crushing Claws or Spinefist +0ppm; Acid Spray +5
So many options, virtually all of them bad. Sigh...
>
> All may have -
> Adrenal +5ppm; Poison +5
>
> > > 5-20 Stealers 6044162105+ 14ppm
> > wonder why they're so much less expensive than the Ymgarls?
>
> Armour Save. Plus -Ymgarls are invisible, remember? :- P
Oh yeah, they're the 'pod people' of the Tyranid forces (as
opposed to the 'Village People') now, aren't they.
>
> > People keep acting like huge units of squishy infantry are some how more
> > durable or useful
>
> Someone at GW finally watched _Starship Troopers_.
Finally? I'm thinking 'watched it about 50 times and thought it
was actually good'.
> Nid lists are now to be Brain-Bug-with-attendants armies.
> The kick is, the little attendant bugs are the Scoring Units.
>
Boy oh boy, those objective missions are going to be fun. Spend 4
or 5 turns hiding the squishy troops units and make a mad dash at the
end. 'Rinse, Repeat, Boredom...'
> This is the sort of thing a future WD article will call "creative".
> Note: It doesn't matter if we hate Regen - if GW likes it, we'll use
> it.
> If GW likes Starship Troopers why, just buy the models and deal.
> kthxbye!
>
Yes, because if there's anything one needs in an army that's now a
'one trick pony' it's a useless points sink.
> > Flying Uber-HTH Tyrants
>
> Basic Rant -
>
> 0-2 8366454103+ 170pt MC w/ Scythes, Lash/ Sword, Synapse, Shadow,
> Psi.
> WIngs +60; 2+ ASv 40; Thorax Swarm (3 flavors!) 25; Regen 20.
> Adrenal +10; Poison 10; Acid Blood 15; Miasma 15.
>
> Uber Rant -
>
> 0-1 9366564103+ *280PT* MC ist der Strangely Cunning Swarm Fuhrer! X-
> D
> Boneswords, Shadow, Psi (+ Psi Monstrosity!), Synapse, Sonic Shield.
> Psi HQs are as close as you're likely to get to army-wide bonuses.
Time to dust of my stealers, gaunts, and finsh that flying tyrant.
I'm sure my friends will love playing against that army.
>
> Evidently, GW wants to introduce Warmachine mechanics.
> But not really - no, actually BETTER than Warmachine.
> In fact, "Warmachine" doesn't even exist. Shut up!
>
Heh, it must irk them a bit to see the BoLS guys doing Warmachine
articles on their site too.
> > a useless non-scoring unit that's only mediocure as a tar-pit unit
>
> Sorry to break it to you like this, but Nid Troops are all like that
> now.
> Their ineffectiveness -alone- is the whole Marketing spearhead.
> Hordes MUST be accompanied by expensive models now.
>
I'm sure the sales will go strong - right up until they start
losing a lot on the table top.
> > Blinding?
>
> Out of the Sun? Eye-watering Stench? Unknown.
> The English descriptors usually end-up just as silly.
Ahh, the Venomthrope - German for "Pull-my-finger Bug".
>
> > they apparently no longer have any great anti-vehicle use.
>
> New Units have been developed for such mission-critical duties.
> Coincidentally, these are represented with expensive new models.
> As such, crusty OLD Units couldn't rightly compete, now could they?
You'd think that GW would institute a 'trade in' system for old
'out-dated' models. Obviously if said old models have useless rules,
it's time to trade them in. That way GW can sell them to us again later
as a 'value added' service.
>
> > Living Ram rule?
>
> No time! You should be gluing a 2nd eye onto OOE right now!
Righty-oh. I'm off to the craft store to find some 'Googly Eyes'.
>
> > > Landing Spore MC = 2264431354+ 40ppm w/ Lash/ 5 def gun options, etc.
> > Followed by a round of standing at point blank range in front of the enemy
>
> It's got two sorts of Tentacle for CC - Lash and, possibly, Hentai
> (?).
Yes, because nothing says 'Good idea' like charging the Nids
instead of say, just shooting/blasting/flaming the living shit out of
them while they're standing around 'admiring' their spiffy new drop-pod.
> The German is literally "Deciduous Whip", and a good thing too -
> Cuz, Coniferous Whip would have been totally broken!
Tyranids - now with that lovely 'New Chimera' pine scent included!
(Matching floor mats still cost extra, and for the truly stylish, ask
about our genuine 'Corinthina Leather' Carnifex upgrade.)
>
> > > Acid Cannon = R36 S9 AP4 A1 B
> > is this the 'heavy' venom cannon
>
> Ja, der Schwere Biozidkanone.
>
> > limited to only certain models
>
> Rant and Fex.
Who will have a handy close combat weapon too. You know, just in
case say - a basilisk, decided to charge them or something. Next up -
Bio-vores with furious charge! Woohoo!
>
> > the one that now takes a -3 on the vehicle damage table?
>
> Minus one, but yes.
>
> > all the range of a Vindicator combined with the anti-vehicle
> > power of a crack missile. It'll kill a few transports - once they're
> > almost on top of you
>
> Yeah, I guess Timid Nids are a thing of the past.
> Just rush everything into CC and what happens, happens.
> Now, all you need to do is figure out the Nid 'Biker Nob' Unit.
>
> Waaargh, the Nids!
Is it to late to equip all my Fexes with 'bolt-on' Big Shootas?
Hell, I'd settle for stick-bomb launchas...
>
> > get Gav to rewrite the fluff *AND* have McVey do all the sculpting
>
> [shudder] Dude, don't even joke about that.
Broken humor, for a sad sad codex.
Myr :(
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 26, 5:55 pm, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <a24a4347-2480-4d7d-8a6e-6d3b807bc46d@
> 22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com says...
> I wonder how many arguments will erupt over what constitutes
> 'cover' and which is the nearest, etc
Good catch! In my RB, "other units" confer Cover Saves . . .
> Nids no longer have the equivolent of
> frag grenades, no MTC, and no armor saves to speak of?
You forgot no universal Fleet but, yes - exactly.
Remember when Humans were M4, Eldar M5 and Nids M6?
Well, welcome to the Lenton chapter of the Rainbow Coalition.
Come celebrate the precious diversity of grayscale personhood!
> objective missions are going to be fun. Spend 4
> or 5 turns hiding the squishy troops units and make a mad dash at the
> end
Aka the Hungry Hippo Two-step. Distinguishing characteristic:
The "We're gonna chill waaay over here" Unit.
> if there's anything one needs in an army that's now a
> 'one trick pony' it's a useless points sink
Ah-ah, there seem to be two flavors of Regen, now -
And what condition MUST Nid players have in 2/3rds of missions?
Their fragile, nigh-useless Troop Units to be viable after 5-7 turns.
So, who ya gonna call? Wound Busters!
> sales will go strong - right up until they start
> losing a lot on the table top
That's what I meant by 'very short-term profits' in another post.
GW doesn't seem to care about anything they release after @6wks-ish.
I don't expect Codex: Mandatory New Models to be be an exception to
this.
> I'm off to the craft store to find some 'Googly Eyes'
Pics, or you ain't got a hair.
> nothing says 'Good idea' like charging the Nids
As I understand it, the Nids/ Pod will all have unloaded by then.
Shooty opponents will usually be "advancing to the rear" anyway.
40pt Pods can at least help Claim/ Contest Objectives.
> Next up - Bio-vores with furious charge!
It's a stoned Kroothound with a Spooge Cannon on its back.
And you want it to be taken SERIOUSLY?
> a sad sad codex
Maybe you just haven't grasped its "synergy" yet . . .
Playa
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 26, 7:16 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
"synergy"
Newsflash!
Carnifexes can no longer take lash whips, Warriors do not have Fleet,
Raveners aren't synapse, and White Dwarf continues to be dumb.
Looking at OOE's entry, I have to wonder -
Why would Fearless Nids have instinctive behavior?
Hmmm ... Spore Mines got more costly, but don't count for KP.
A Hentai Pod can take -
Spike launcher, spike storm, barbed strangler, venom cannon or twin-
linked deathspitter.
Tervigons that roll doubles still give birth. Hive Guard can't take
Mycetic Spores.
More translations from the German:
+++
Death Leaper 9364374105+ 140pt- Elite Infantry w/
Rending Claws, Scythes, Chameleon Skin (always starts in reserve,
deploy
anywhere on the battlefield more than 1in from enemy models, cannot
move
or assault on the turn they arrive, but may run), Flesh Hooks 6in S6
AP- A2, Rend
Instinct/ Lurk, Fearless, Fleet, Hit & Run, Pheromone (+1 to reserve
rolls,
units within 6in do not scatter), MTC, Stealth, Special Rules -
It's after me!: At the start of the game, reduce the Ld of an enemy
character model by d3.
What was that?: All enemy units within 12in of Deathleaper roll one
less die
when moving through difficult terrain (to a minimum of 1).
Where the hell?: Units shoot at Deathleaper using the Night Fight
rules for
measuring distance. If they see him, this distance is halved.
Where did it go?: During his movement phase, if Deathleaper is more
than 1in from any enemy
model, he can be removed from the table and placed in Reserve. In the
next
movement phase, he can be redeployed according to the normal Lictor
rules.
Also, his Flesh Hooks *appear* to count as Assault Grenades.
+++
Parasite of Mortrex 5364364103+ 160pt HQ IC w/
Injectors, Rending Claws, Wings, Shadow, Synapse, Special Rules -
Host: Ripper Swarms within 24in need not make Instinctive Behaviour
tests.
Parasite: Each model wounded must roll 1d6 for each failed T test. At
the end
of the CC phase, place ripper swarms equal to the numbers rolled such
that
all bases are within 6in of the Parasite. Bases which cannot be placed
due to
impassable terrain or the presence of enemy models within 1in are
lost.
Strange Behaviour: At the end of the Movement phase for enemy
Outflankers, a
single model (owner's choice) must make a T test. If failed, the model
is removed
and replaced with d6 Ripper Swarms within a 6in radius. If targetted
within a transport,
place the Swarm within 2in of ther Hull. All bases which cannot be so
placed due to
impassable terrain/ enemy models within 1in/ etc, are lost.
+++
Swarmlord 9366564103+/4++ 280pt HQ MC w/
Boneswords: Cause instant death regardless of any immunities. Early
rumours said that
the enemy had to pass a Ld check. In addition, enemies must reroll
successful ISvs.
Special: Synapse, Psyker, Shadow (Psykers within 12in test Psi w/ an
extra die).
Psi Monstrosity: 18in Synapse, can also use two Psi per turn.
Leader: At the beginning of the Tyranid player's turn, the Swarmlord
may give one Nid
unit within 18in one of the following rules: Acute, Furious or
Preferred.
This lasts until the end of the Tyranid player's turn.
Cunning: +1 to all Reserve rolls. Arriving Units may Flank. May re-
roll the edge dice.
Psi -
Horror: Forces a non-Fearless unit within 12in to pass a morale check
or fall back.
Leech: 12in S3 AP2 Ad3 attacks. Regain Wounds, up to basic, equal to
enemy Wounds lost.
Shock (Autohits, reduces BS/ WS of a non-vehicle enemy unit within
12in to 1.) Lasts
until the Tyranid player's next turn.
Scream: (Authits all non-vehicle enemy units within 2d6in). Every unit
hit must pass a
morale check or take one wound for every point failed. No Armour Saves
allowed.
+++
Tervigon 3356613103+ 160pt HQ MC w/
- Teeth (A single CCW)
- Spike Blaster: 18in S5 AP4 A4
Shadow, Synapse, Breeder:
During your Movement Phase, but before you move units, the Tervigon
may hatch Termigants
even if bound in close combat. If it does, roll 3d6. Place the
resulting Termigants as a
new unit no more than 6in from the Tervigon. Models which cannot be
placed due to
impassable terrain or enemy units within 1in are lost. The hatched
unit may move, shoot
and assault. Models hatched from the Tervigon are identical to
standard Termigants. If you
roll doubles, the new brood will still be hatched, but the Tervigon
may not produce any
further units.
Broodfather: Termigants within 6in of a Tervigon may use his Ld value.
If the Tervigon has
Toxin Sacs or Adrenal Glands, so do Termigants within 6in. Termagants
within 6in also
receive Counterattack. If the Tervigon should be killed, Termigant
units within 6in take
3d6 hits at S3 AP-.
May choose one (1) of the following: Scythes (5); Crushing (25)
And one of the following: Adrenal (10); Toxin (10); Blood (15);
Injector (15); Miasma (15); Regeneration (30)
May replace Spike Blaster with Spike Hail at no charge.
May choose any of the following Psi powers:
Catalyst (15): One unit within 12in gains Feel No Pain
Force (15): One unit within 12in may Run and Shoot in the same phase
Every unit of Termagants taken allows you to take a Tervigon as a
Troops choice.
If a brood rolls for reserves, instead of coming in from a table edge
they may
be placed within 6in of a Trygon's entry point. No monstrous or winged
models
allowed, and they all have to fit within the radius. Otherwise, just
DS.
Editorials -
+++
Originally posted by Bobx66:
I'm fairly certain I wont ever use my carnifexes again. And probably
not my 2nd hive tyrant
either. Or my 100 gaunts. And probably not my warriors ... I feel like
there are maybe only one
or two playable builds in the entire list.
+++
Originally posted by Broken Loose:
Basically there are complete armywide nerfs (gaunts lost fleet/without
number/living
ammo/grenades, hormagaunts lost leaping/grenades, warriors lost
fleshborers/lash whip
pairs/unique equipment/grenades/leaping, rippers lost leaping and eat
each other, broodlords
lost power weapons, genestealers lost all head upgrades including
grenades, gargoyles lost
fleet, hive tyrants lost weapons/BS4/invulnerable saves/warp blast,
biovores lost brood
telepathy/other mine types, zoanthropes lost 2+ armor/every psychic
power except synapse and
warp field, lictors lost assaulting on appearance, carnifexes are
pretty much entirely a joke,
everything lost move through cover, and synapse went from "pass all Ld
tests" to Fearless) with
only gargoyles and hormagaunts going down in cost to reflect it, but
almost everything else went
up in points.
Then we got a bunch of things that make sense (warp field is amazing,
hormagaunts have faster
fleet, genestealers may infiltrate, hive tyrants are absolute monsters
in close combat) and a
bunch of completely crazy shit out of left field that was pretty much
uncalled for (everything
else).
I imagine that gaunts with spikerifles/devourers being Forced out of
rapid fire range after they
fire their guns by a nearby tervigon will be a good idea. I imagine
that hormagaunts being given
furious charge or preferred enemy in lieu of their ludicrously
expensive biomorphs will be a
good idea. I imagine that warriors with boneswords could be a good
idea if you're fighting
somebody who doesn't have powerfists in their entire army. I'm
imagining all these things that
maybe could work but then I build the list and find out that
everything but bare gaunt squads
are ludicrously expensive. In fact, I will take gaunts exactly the
same way as I used to:
instead of minimum-sized cheapo depot squads without number, minimum-
sized cheapo depot squads
so I can take a troop tervigon.
The best part of all of this ... is that genestealers got WAY better
and 2x twin-linked
devourers is still the best configuration on hive tyrants and
carnifexes. All those imperial
players complaining about "stealer shock and dakkafexes are
overpowered just wait for the nerf"
and all they got was the fact that we pay double for them but they now
have triple the wounds.
+++
Playa
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 26, 11:32 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Newsflash
http://www.mediafire.com/?jy1jeemg2tc
Also the first tourney lists are coming in.
Here's a simple one using all old figs:
HQ 290
1x Tyrant w/ Shock, Drain (170)
-Wings (60)
-Adversary (25)
-Heavy VC (25)
-Adrenal (10)
EL 370
1x3 Guard (150)
1x3 Thrope (180)
-Spore (40)
TR 840
3x20 Stealer (280)
(1500)
Playa
Myrmidon
cbf2b3...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com
says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 26, 11:32 pm, Playa <johnpaulpont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Newsflash
>
> http://www.mediafire.com/?jy1jeemg2tc
>
Thanks!
> Also the first tourney lists are coming in.
> Here's a simple one using all old figs:
>
> HQ 290
> 1x Tyrant w/ Shock, Drain (170)
> -Wings (60)
> -Adversary (25)
> -Heavy VC (25)
> -Adrenal (10)
>
I'm not sure which is worse, their new apparent Max BS of 3, or
their points cost (which is also BS). It just warms my heart to know
that *ALL* Nids with ranged heavy weapons have limited shots (no taking
2 heavys) AND have a MEH BS of 3. 'Hey, they out-shoot Orks...'
> EL 370
> 1x3 Guard (150)
> 1x3 Thrope (180)
> -Spore (40)
>
> TR 840
> 3x20 Stealer (280)
>
> (1500)
>
Flying Tyrant with a shit-load of Genestealers. Woohoo! Third
Edition 40K - here we come again! Granted this person was using only
old models, but the truth is this looks like one of the more viable
lists sadly. Why would they take 150 points worth of T-Guard when the
Flyrant has wings? Are they going to stick one by each of the zoans?
Myr
Playa
Hey,
On Dec 27, 9:46 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <957e3506-6ff0-47d6-a6ca-
> cbf2b398b...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
> says...
> I'm not sure which is worse, their new apparent Max BS of 3, or
> their points cost (which is also BS)
Nyuck!
Give your Rant the free 'Paroxysm' Psi -
"My Assault Termis hit Termagants on a WHAT?"
Even Ork players get frosty if you force their WS to 1.
Word is, effectively kitted Flyrants are @300pts now.
This makes the Swarmlord start to look like a bargain.
You'll know you've chugged the hemlock when that makes sense.
> *ALL* Nids with ranged heavy weapons have limited shots (no taking
> 2 heavys)
... said the guy with the Heavy ASSAULT weapons.
> BS of 3. 'Hey, they out-shoot Orks...'
I recall a few TL options being available.
Also plenty of B and B5 plates, iirc.
Um, then those A6/ 10/ 20, etc.
Anyway, the important thing is - your BS is lower than a Marine's.
That'll show you uppity Xenos.
> Third Edition 40K - here we come again
Good times. :- )
> this looks like one of the more viable lists
Rob Cruddace wants everyone to play HIS army.
This is the same 'gift' Chaos got from Algav.
Learning curve courtesy of Sisyphus.
Commence character building in 3, 2 ...
> Why would they take 150 points worth of T-Guard when the
> Flyrant has wings?
At a guess, cheap S8 A2 Cannons.
That shoot through SCHOOLS!
But at BS3. Neener!
Playa
Myrmidon
2cdb53...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, johnpau...@gmail.com
says...
>
> Hey,
>
> On Dec 27, 9:46 am, Myrmidon <Im...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <957e3506-6ff0-47d6-a6ca-
> > cbf2b398b...@c34g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, johnpaulpont...@gmail.com
> > says...
> > I'm not sure which is worse, their new apparent Max BS of 3, or
> > their points cost (which is also BS)
>
> Nyuck!
>
> Give your Rant the free 'Paroxysm' Psi -
> "My Assault Termis hit Termagants on a WHAT?"
> Even Ork players get frosty if you force their WS to 1.
>
> Word is, effectively kitted Flyrants are @300pts now.
> This makes the Swarmlord start to look like a bargain.
> You'll know you've chugged the hemlock when that makes sense.
>
> > *ALL* Nids with ranged heavy weapons have limited shots (no taking
> > 2 heavys)
>
> ... said the guy with the Heavy ASSAULT weapons.
>
> > BS of 3. 'Hey, they out-shoot Orks...'
>
> I recall a few TL options being available.
> Also plenty of B and B5 plates, iirc.
> Um, then those A6/ 10/ 20, etc.
>
All the A6, 10, and 20 have short ranges and won't take out heavy
armor, which with Mech spam is going to be a problem.
> Anyway, the important thing is - your BS is lower than a Marine's.
> That'll show you uppity Xenos.
>
Yes, because the Hive mind can gene-engineer everything *except* a
descent set of eye-balls and depth perception...
> > Third Edition 40K - here we come again
>
> Good times. :- )
>
> > this looks like one of the more viable lists
>
> Rob Cruddace wants everyone to play HIS army.
> This is the same 'gift' Chaos got from Algav.
> Learning curve courtesy of Sisyphus.
>
> Commence character building in 3, 2 ...
Fist full of fail...
>
> > Why would they take 150 points worth of T-Guard when the
> > Flyrant has wings?
>
> At a guess, cheap S8 A2 Cannons.
> That shoot through SCHOOLS!
> But at BS3. Neener!
>
Those Hive Guard, not Tyrant Guard. Like I said, why would anyone
take T-Guard and a Flyrant? Can he asign the T-guard to the Zoans or
something?