Best paints?
John Nelson
opinians on paints. I am interested especially in what brands are
generally good, which looks better, matte or gloss, and techniques for
showing different textures. Any advice would be appreciated!
John
Tyranid
try them out to se which ones work best for you. Everyone has special
preferences; you'll need to find your own & trial & error may be the best
way. I would strong suggest water based acrylics, though (and at the risk
of sounding biased suggest trying our Citadel Starter paint set, with the
basic colors, standard size paint brush & 2 figs included).
Tim Huckelbery
Games Workshop USA Customer Service
Give us a call! 1-800-492-8820
And visit the Games Workshop Web Site:
http://www.games-workshop.com
DFVance001
writes:
>I think your best bet might be to get started sets for several paints &
>try them out to se which ones work best for you. Everyone has special
>preferences; you'll need to find your own & trial & error may be the best
>way. I would strong suggest water based acrylics, though (and at the
risk
>of sounding biased suggest trying our Citadel Starter paint set, with the
>basic colors, standard size paint brush & 2 figs included).
Selecting paint is a very personal choice, after all, it may not be
great but it *is* art, and we don't all agree when it comes to art. I
prefer the Citadel range myself, as they have great color mixes and are
the only ones to have inks and glazes THAT I KNOW OF! Ral Partha has some
nice colors that I also use, especially some metallics (copper and steel),
and the paint pot is a little larger (3/4 an ounce as opposed to about 2/3
an ounce) and less expensive (by about 8-15 cents). Citadel minis are
specifically non-toxic, and I tend to "point" my brush tip in my mouth a
lot. Can't do that with Parthas or metallics. If you are doing
historicals, it is a little different story. There is a lot of concern
over selecting the proper colors to match historical garb, and I don't
know if there are any magazines or books that say that British Red is best
represented by Partha Dragon Red or Citadel Go Fasta Red. You're gonna
have to find that out elsewheres!
I refuse to work with anything other than acrylics, mostly because no
matter how long I let the turp-based paints dry, when I come over with
another color the original color mixes in too. With acrylics all you need
is water to clean up with, instead of turps, and also it takes a while to
learn the right mix of paint/thinner to apply an even coat. The downside
of acrylics is that they dry pretty fast, so you have to learn some
techniques like constantly re-thinning to keep the pain on your palet wet.
Matt finishes are *my* favorite, but they don't protect as well as
glossy finishes. One of my fellow gamers has a tradition of thick and
shiny, which gives his minis a sort of porceline look which is really kind
of neat.
Textures are done by shading and highlighting. My best advice to you is
the following:
1) Acrylics. Always acrylics.
2) Use something plastic and white as a pallet. I have used lids off of
the margarine tubs, but right now am into comic book bags with a piece of
white backing card inside -- it is easier to mix the colors on a pristine
white background.
3) Use a good mix of thinner. Always go for several even, light coats of
paint as opposed to one heavy coat. Some colors coat better than others,
but some are pretty translucent and you have to make several coats to
cover properly anyways (Emerald Green and Sunburst Yellow are two good
examples).
4) Save highlighting until you become proficient at simple basecoating.
Models which haven't been "snazzed up" are much more attractive than
failed highlighting/shading attempts (and I have the proof if you doubt
me!).
5) Properly prepare your minis! I will spend hours just to make sure
that all the flash and sprue is gone from my figures before painting!
Nothing is more hideous than a seam line down the face of your characters!
6) Always have a couple of "spares" to try out color schemes if you are
painting sci-fi/fantasy, and paint one whole model before doing anything
else. You may decide that you don't like the color scheme you have
selected, and it is better to find this out before you start painting all
of your forces!
7) Be patient and enjoy your hobby!
Best,
David
Allan Goodall
Paint choice is a personal thing. I haven't found one company's paints that
I'd use exclusively. My current collection consists of Ral Partha, Armoury,
Tamiya, another Japanese company who's name escapes me at the moment,
Polly-S, Testors (acrylic), and a couple of Citadel. I'm now more concerned
about finding the right colour or shade than the actual manufacturer.
I prefer acrylic paints. They aren't as thick as enamel paints, and the matt
finish looks better (enamel tends to give a ceramic finish). Also, they are
far easier to work with as they dissolve in water. Use water as a thinner,
and for cleaning the brush. Their major drawback is that they dry very
quickly. This can be a blessing (finish a coat of paint on 5 figures and the
first one should be ready for a second coat), but it also means that the
paint dries quickly on the pallet. If you feel the paint begin to clump on
the brush, either thin the paint or get some more out of the pot.
I bought Ral Partha originally but found that some of their matt paints had a
tendency to crack when drying. I've come back to RP recently, and their more
recent paints seem to be much better. They last a long time, too. I have some
RP paints that are 8 years old, and still usable. I like the Armoury's
paints, particularly the metallics. They were reasonably priced and came in
big bottles. Unfortunately, they tended to dry in their bottles quickly, and
the seal on the lids gave out easily. I'm also having a harder time finding
them. The Japanese paints have a strange, almost enamel quality to them, and
have a strong vapour. Still, they behave like the other acrylics (though they
don't dry as quickly) and usually come in an excellent range of military
colours. The paint range usually includes a number of esoteric colours
(like smoke, soot, dust, etc.) Polly-S is a bit controversial. Some adore
them, others hate them. I like them, though the lighter shades need two (or
more) coats. They have a strange texture and tend toward pastel
colours (at least in my local store). Testors has a new range of acrylics.
I'm not crazy about their selection, but I have two bottles of their paints
(a maroon, and a metallic red) in shades I haven't seen elsewhere. Citadel I
got cheap. Citadel's paints are usually more expensive than most and they're
a bit on the runny side. I like the way they are stored, though (in plastic
bottles with pop-up lids).
A primer coat is essential (particularly with pewter based figures). I used a
brush primer for the longest time until I smartened up and bought a couple of
cans of Armoury spray primer. Now priming a dozen figures takes about 10
minutes, instead of a couple of hours. Primer colours vary. For all
purpose use, I use a grey primer. If I know the figure will be primarily
light colours, I'll use a white primer. I've never cared for black
primers, though some would disagree. Also, consider a spray clear coat
(either matt or gloss). A finishing coat will protect the figure
(particularly matt finishes). I used to use a brush coat, but found that if I
put it on too thick, it hardened in the cracks as a white residue.
Buy a smattering of different paints and try them for yourself. Buy decent
sable brushes. Cheap brushes aren't worth the money. Go to an art supply
store and pick up a "pallet pad." This is a pad of white waxed paper. Use it
as a colour pallet, and when it gets too grungy, rip off the top page and
you've got a clean pallet. Put some paint on the pallet with a pallet
knife/toothpick/stir stick/whatever and pick up the paint from the pallet.
Don't dip your brush into the paint pot. Brush soap can be a good investment.
It cleans out the hard-to-clean colours (black, red). Also, you can sculpt
the brush into the proper pointed shape, and coat the brush in the soap. The
soap will keep the brush's shape and protect it, and it will come off very
easily in water.
Hope this helps.
--
Allan Goodall, Sales and Marketing Systems, Kodak Canada, Inc.
INTERNET: WORK: all...@kodak.com HOME: agoo...@sympatico.ca
VOICE: (416) 766-8233 ext 35473 FAX: (416) 760-4597
Visit the Kodak Web site at: http://www.kodak.com
Crom
'good sable brushes', but don't -- they will become quickly worn due
to the rough textures on some mini's. Get good SYNTHETIC brushes.
Tyranid Tim's suggestion to start with the Citadel basic paint set is
a good one, though I think I could fingerpaint better than using what
he calls the 'standard size brush' included with the set (sorry, Tim).
Learn technique first, then start worrying about paint brands, etc.
Get a can of spray primer -- make sure it's acrylic. Get a set of
needle files for removing flashing. I'd suggest you look at the
non-mini-specific acrylic paints -- Liquitex is a favorite of mine.
It's higher quality (IMHO) than mini-paints and cheaper. The craft
acrylics (Apple Barrel, Folk Art, etc.) are also cheap, have a wide
range of colors available, and are of comparable quality to
mini-paints.
Hope this helps,
Brian T. Forsythe
cr...@erinet.com
Richard Hale
the jar), Armory (OK) and other paints. The ones I'm moving to are Liquitex
Artists paints. I had some of the tubes many years back (ok, 15) and they
are still usable (if they need thinning for use), but I recently came
across a line of theirs in pots, with a less gel like consistency. These
are great and after a few tests I bought most of the standard colors,
umbers, siennnas etc. They are even priced excellently in the craft
superstore by me at $2 for a pot that is several times larger than the
model hobbyists stuff. The only drawback is that the greens are poor, so I
use the old stock (GW & RP) for those, or mix blue and yellow.
BTW Liquitex have an interesting range of "interference" or "opal" colors
that I'm experimenting with for dragon scale highlights, first results are
interesting to say the least!
Richard Hale
Alec Habig
>A primer coat is essential (particularly with pewter based figures). I used a
>brush primer for the longest time until I smartened up and bought a couple of
>cans of Armoury spray primer. Now priming a dozen figures takes about 10
>minutes, instead of a couple of hours.
A cheaper substitute - spray cans of primer from the hardware store. I've had
wonderful luck with Krylon, and it's a couple of bucks per can cheaper.
One big plus for Ral Partha - the jars are the best in the industry. You can
even buy empty jars from them, so that you can transfer paints from other
company's jars (say, Armory, whose jars really suck) or mix new colors.
A hearty second for everything else Allan said.
--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://www.astro.indiana.edu/home/ahabig/
Ban the Bomb: Make the world safe for conventional warfare!
Alec Habig
>If you are doing historicals, it is a little different story. There is a lot
>of concern over selecting the proper colors to match historical garb, and I
>don't know if there are any magazines or books that say that British Red is
>best represented by Partha Dragon Red or Citadel Go Fasta Red. You're gonna
>have to find that out elsewheres!
Nah, no problem. Given the instability of dyes, and the inconsistant standards
to which defense contracters making hte uniforms were held (or not held, as the
case may be :) there's little problem with coloring your historical guys with
any reasonably close shade of whatever color.
Partha Dragon Red is probobly closer to what a British Redcoat was intended to
look like than the coats most soldiers actualy wore :)
Yale F. Edeiken
> I just started getting into miniatures and was wondering about some
> opinians on paints. I am interested especially in what brands are
> generally good, which looks better, matte or gloss, and techniques for
> showing different textures. Any advice would be appreciated!
>
>
>>>>
The most commonly used paints are matte finish, water based acrylics.
I don't know if there are any bad brands as long as they give you the result you
want. I like Ral Partha and Liquidtex jar acrylics but have experimented with and
use various hues from Howard Hues, Polly S, Pelikan Plaka, Armory, and Folk
Art. They all seem to work well. The only paints that I have tried and do not like
are the Tamiya paints. You might also want to look at inks especially those from
Windsor-Newton. Their brown ink (either "nut brown" or "peat brown" -- I can't
tell the difference) puts a wonderful semi-matte glaze on things that need it
(leather work, muskets, etc.)
--YFE
Yale F. Edeiken
>
I think that your advice was very good but one suggestion:
> 2) Use something plastic and white as a pallet. I have used lids off of
> the margarine tubs, but right now am into comic book bags with a piece of
> white backing card inside -- it is easier to mix the colors on a pristine
> white background.
I have found two good sources of cheap permanent pallets. I bought
a square of 1/4 inch opaque white plexiglass at local store. It costs less than a
buck. Even cheaper was a pane of window glass, the edges protected by
electrician's tape. Put a white piece of paper on the table and you have a
permanent pallette for less than a buck. Wipe it after every use and it will last
forever.
--YFE
Yale F. Edeiken
>
> I bought Ral Partha originally but found that some of their matt paints had a
> tendency to crack when drying. I've come back to RP recently, and their more
> recent paints seem to be much better. They last a long time, too. I have some
> RP paints that are 8 years old, and still usable. I like the Armoury's
> paints, particularly the metallics. They were reasonably priced and came in
> big bottles. Unfortunately, they tended to dry in their bottles quickly, and
> the seal on the lids gave out easily.
I had the same problem with Armory paints and I use several regularly.
I think the tall thin bottle is the worst possible design for miniatures painting. I
finally bought a bunch of bottles from Ral Partha (they are in the catalog as
"M-Ts"). Now my Armory paints last as long as the Ral Partha's.
--YFE
Yale F. Edeiken
>
>
. The ones I'm moving to are Liquitex
> Artists paints. I had some of the tubes many years back (ok, 15) and they
> are still usable (if they need thinning for use), but I recently came
> across a line of theirs in pots, with a less gel like consistency. These
> are great and after a few tests I bought most of the standard colors,
> umbers, siennnas etc. They are even priced excellently in the craft
> superstore by me at $2 for a pot that is several times larger than the
> model hobbyists stuff. The only drawback is that the greens are poor, so I
> use the old stock (GW & RP) for those, or mix blue and yellow.
>
> BTW Liquitex have an interesting range of "interference" or "opal" colors
> that I'm experimenting with for dragon scale highlights, first results are
> interesting to say the least!
>
I would like to second your recommendation of Liquidtex especially for
painters who like the effects of washes. Their "tooth" is excellent. I find that I
use either an umber wash (either "raw" or "burnt") or Payne's Gray in some form
on almost every figure I paint.
I saw the "interference" colors at an art store and was considering
using them for elf armor. Tell more about how you used them and what the
results were.
--YFE
DFVance001
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>A cheaper substitute - spray cans of primer from the hardware store.
I've
>had wonderful luck with Krylon, and it's a couple of bucks per can
cheaper.
I have used Krylon too, with much success!
When I do my special characters I actually don't use a spray-coat, but
apply white by brush. After a very careful pruning (I really hate flash!)
I use many thin coats of white. Although this is a long process, it
allows me to become familiar with my special minitures, to rummage around
in my head for colors, special highlights, and an overall mood for the
piece that I can't seem to get just by staring at the model. By the time
it is ready to paint, so am I. I only do this for the special characters,
but they deserve my best anyways!
Best,
David
DFVance001
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>Partha Dragon Red is probobly closer to what a British Redcoat was
intended
>to
>look like than the coats most soldiers actualy wore :)
:) I am only just now getting into historicals. I didn't realize what a
faux pas it was to have my nubian warriors show up in bright red skirts!
I thought they looked rather Africanny myself, but was teased immeasurably
during the contest.
Best,
David
DFVance001
writes:
> I have found two good sources of cheap permanent pallets. I
bought
>a square of 1/4 inch opaque white plexiglass at local store. It costs
less
>than a buck. Even cheaper was a pane of window glass, the edges
protected by
>electrician's tape. Put a white piece of paper on the table and you have
a
>permanent pallette for less than a buck. Wipe it after every use and it
will
>last forever.
Sounds good! I get the bags for free from my retailer -- I have a
subscription service through him for White Dwarf, and he always puts my
issue in a bag for me! Since I refer to them so much I never put it back
in the bag! The one backing card is all I need, since I use the outer
bag.
Dumbest painting mistake: Shaking up a bottle without checking to see
that the lid is on tight! My black pants are STILL yellow! Fortunately
the kitchen is not!!!
Best,
David
DFVance001
writes:
>I finally bought a bunch of bottles from Ral Partha (they are in the
catalog as
>"M-Ts"). Now my Armory paints last as long as the Ral Partha's.
Hmm. The Citadel tops do tend to make my thumb hurt when I am flipping
through colors fast . . .
Richard Hale
They are a lot like a glaze, the colors are refracted by the surface. I
used them over matching colors, not metals, so I can't comment on Elf
Armor. I might try some over the weekend though. Because the paint leaves a
visible layer I had restricted it's use to highlights and then used an ink
over to blend them back a bit.
Experimentation continues.
BTW Unbleached Titanium is a superb bone color, beats Citadel Bleached Bone
into a cocked hat.
--
Richard Hale
Richard Hale
Windsor-Newton. Their brown ink (either "nut brown" or "peat brown" -- I
can't
tell the difference) puts a wonderful semi-matte glaze on things that need
it
(leather work, muskets, etc.)
sunlight over a couple of years (Viridian and Apple Green). The Citadel
ones seem to hold.
--
Richard Hale
Richard Hale
(DFVance001)' wrote:
>Hmm. The Citadel tops do tend to make my thumb hurt when I am flipping
>through colors fast . . .
across the workbench as part of the process.
RP jars are best... but check out the Liquitex pots... best colors, best
value and real artists paint.
For Pallettes I use the metal lids from frozen juice, an infinite supply in
our house.
--
Richard Hale
Crom
>A cheaper substitute - spray cans of primer from the hardware store. I've had
>wonderful luck with Krylon, and it's a couple of bucks per can cheaper.
In my experience, these are enamel, no? I had a can of enamel primer
once when I was new to this -- ACK! Oil and water don't mix...
Crom
> I had the same problem with Armory paints and I use several regularly.
>I think the tall thin bottle is the worst possible design for miniatures painting. I
>finally bought a bunch of bottles from Ral Partha (they are in the catalog as
>"M-Ts"). Now my Armory paints last as long as the Ral Partha's.
The worst design? Why does bottle shape matter? You don't paint out
of an open bottle, do you? Good way to get your paints half-hardened,
and ruin their consistency...
Yale F. Edeiken
>
>
> BTW Unbleached Titanium is a superb bone color, beats Citadel Bleached
Bone
> into a cocked hat.
>
>>>>
an undead army that way. For historical painters the "Unbleach Titanium" with
the same wash is a remarkably good natural linen color. BTW it was Gary
Leitzell, who posts here, who introduced me to Liquitex jar colors.
--YFE
Yale F. Edeiken
>
>
> The worst design? Why does bottle shape matter? You don't paint out
> of an open bottle, do you? Good way to get your paints half-hardened,
> and ruin their consistency...
>
>>>>
a shake just before I open it. My empirical observation is that when the Armory
jars get about half empty there is is so much glass coated with paint that the
problem you cite is exacly what happens. The consistency of the paint changes
and the useful life shortened. While this is a persoanl observation, I have not had
this problem since I transferred the paints to RP jars. I haven't had any lids freeze
either.
BTW, I do the same with Howard Hues paints. I like both Armory and
Howard Hues, both have some paints that I would not do without. I just think
they last longer and keep their consistency better in plastic jars.
--YFE
Yale F. Edeiken
to a friend who uses inks (over a white primer) as his primary painting technique.
--YFE
Reginald Rutherford
Actually, they work great! Krylon spray enamel primer does an excellent
job of holding acrylic paint once its dry, and it costs less than half
the price of Armory or Citadel primer. And if you check, I'll bet that
they're the exact same stuff -- they smell the same, look the same, act
the same, and are sold in the same bottle.
--
Rick Rutherford rthr...@sirius.umd.edu The above opinions are mine.
"It seems to me that the nearer painting approaches sculpture the better
it is, and that sculpture is the worse the nearer it approaches painting."
-- Michelangelo
W. Nitsche
> > 2) Use something plastic and white as a pallet. I have used lids off of
> > the margarine tubs, but right now am into comic book bags with a piece of
> > white backing card inside -- it is easier to mix the colors on a pristine
> > white background.
>
> I have found two good sources of cheap permanent pallets. I bought
> a square of 1/4 inch opaque white plexiglass at local store. It costs less than a
> buck. Even cheaper was a pane of window glass, the edges protected by
> electrician's tape. Put a white piece of paper on the table and you have a
> permanent pallette for less than a buck. Wipe it after every use and it will last
> forever.
Another good pallet used by more traditional artists are glazed white
floor tiles. I bought a 4x4" one for less than 50 cents at a hardware
store. However, I usually use the plastic from the blisters the figs come
in with over a blank white 3x5 card. That way they get some use before
tossing them, and you don't have to deal with washing.
Bill Nitsche
bnit...@u.washington.edu
Joseph Goodman
Nelson) wrote:
> I just started getting into miniatures and was wondering about some
> opinians on paints. I am interested especially in what brands are
> generally good, which looks better, matte or gloss, and techniques for
> showing different textures. Any advice would be appreciated!
Well, I think it all depends on what you're going for, and how you paint
yourself...but that advice sure isn't gonna help ya. I personally use
Testors oil-based enamels for all of my figures. This seems to be a
cardinal sin, judging by the replies to your post so far, so I'll see what
I can do to justify such evil ;).
The basic colors (primaries + mixes of the primaries + black, white, stuff
like that) are much easier to locate in enamels, since K-Mart, Wal-Mart,
your local hardware store, etc. tend to be more widespread than hobby
stores. At hobby stores, Testors has a full range of paints (every color
I've ever needed, including some warped metallics that I've never seen in
any other line), as well as a compatible military line (every shade of
grey, green, and blue that you could EVER want). But that's not a big
concern, because what matters is what comes out on the figure, right?
Enamels are a bit thicker than other paints (though I haven't painted much
with acrylics, the few times I did this seemed to be true). But I don't
think it matters unless your paint application borders on spray-painting.
A thin layer of an enamel is just as thin as a thin layer of acrylic.
(Something I've learned after a while painting: your figures will look a
lot better if you apply several thin coats of a color rather than a few
thick coats, so be patient and go for the thin layers.) I suppose that
it's possible that there is a figure somewhere with so much fine detail
that Testors would obscure it beyond repair, but I haven't found that
figure yet. (I do, however, mostly paint GW-style 30 mm figures; small
true 25 mm figures might be the antithesis to my claim.)
Thinning with paint thinner isn't really a problem. I think washes are
harder to do with oil paints than with water paints, because the thinner
in the wash will re-wet the paint beneath the wash -- so you have to apply
it and wait for it to dry without doing any brush strokes on it or you'll
mess it up. Speaking of drying, the extra drying time of oil paints isn't
usually a problem. When I do personalities I sometimes have to wait for
paint to dry (which never takes more than 5-10 minutes for a layer),
because I'm much more careful with personalities and I tend to do a lot
more detailing and shading, but I can paint a normal trooper in one
sitting without any waiting time. As long as you apply the paint in thin
layers there's no problem with drying time.
The one true advantage of oil-based paint over water-based acrylics that I
have seen is the brightness of color. I don't know why this is, but there
are some really intense hues available in oil-based paint that I've never
seen in water-base. (I've had people at cons ask me how I got particular
colors, because they'd never seen those colors in the acrylics you usually
find in hobby stores.) This isn't particularly useful unless you're going
for the neon GW look, and you can still easily get that with acrylic, but
you can get it even more brilliant with enamels.
(I haven't examined the lines of acrylic paints extensively, so for all I
know there may be some brilliant colors available now; it's just that I've
had enough people ask me how I got the bright colors that I assume such
bright colors are hard to find in water-based acrylics.)
As to advantages of oil-based over water-based...well, I don't know if
there are any distinct advantages, unless you're really into bright
colors. It just depends on what you prefer in a paint. I'm accustomed to
oil-based enamels and I know how to use them, so that's what I use. The
downsides that you hear so often (requires thinner, takes a while to dry)
aren't a problem for me, and there are similar downsides to water-based
paints (can dry too quickly). If I were you I'd pick up a few bottles of
each kind of paint and do up a figure with each kind...whichever you like,
stick with it.
As a side note, the only people I've ever heard really fervently defend
water-based acrylics are employees of companies that manufacture those
kinds of paints. (I've never heard anyone fervently defend oil-based
enamels. ;) People who just like to paint don't seem to get too worked up
about it.
--
Joseph Goodman, jgoo...@cc.swarthmore.edu
Editor of Forge and The Dark Library
Heartbreaker, 40K, Bolo Pages: http://sccs.swarthmore.edu/~bigearl/bio.html
The woman was a dream I had, though rather hard to keep, for when
my eyes were watching her as they closed, and I was still asleep,
and when my hand was holding hers, she whispered words and I
awoke...and faintly bouncing round the room, the echo of whomever
spoke... --Phish
DFVance001
jgoo...@cc.swarthmore.edu (Joseph Goodman) writes:
>The basic colors (primaries + mixes of the primaries + black, white,
stuff
>like that) are much easier to locate in enamels, since K-Mart, Wal-Mart,
>your local hardware store, etc. tend to be more widespread than hobby
>stores.
I only have two stores in the area that I really consider when going for
paints. One is working on becoming Chapter Approved, and I can find EVERY
single Citadel color there. Most excellent. The other store carries a
very wide selection of other-manufactured paints as it is pretty much the
historicals miniatures place in the area.
>(Something I've learned after a while painting: your figures will look a
>lot better if you apply several thin coats of a color rather than a few
>thick coats, so be patient and go for the thin layers.)
YES YES YES. This one point is *the* point to get on painting!
>Thinning with paint thinner isn't really a problem. I think washes are
>harder to do with oil paints than with water paints, because the thinner
>in the wash will re-wet the paint beneath the wash -- so you have to
apply
>it and wait for it to dry without doing any brush strokes on it or you'll
>mess it up.
You can still do this with acrylics too if you are in a rush. For me, I
just couldn't get the thinner/paint mix down, and then I had a problem
with the upper layers picking up the bottom layers, even after a full 24
hours of drying! I am glad I tossed those minitures away! For me though,
I guess I just appreciate the availability of water as a thinner instead
of turps. Never have to dash off to the store because you ran out!
>The one true advantage of oil-based paint over water-based acrylics that
I
>have seen is the brightness of color. I don't know why this is, but there
>are some really intense hues available in oil-based paint that I've never
>seen in water-base.
I think the enamels dry "harder" too, but it's been a long long time since
I messed with them.
>As a side note, the only people I've ever heard really fervently defend
>water-based acrylics are employees of companies that manufacture those
>kinds of paints. (I've never heard anyone fervently defend oil-based
>enamels. ;) People who just like to paint don't seem to get too worked up
>about it.
Sorry! I'm in the Infantry, fervently defending employees of companies
that manufacter oils and acrylics with equal zeal! :D
David Vance
SGT, US Army
Crom
I started painting minis with enamels, and must say I personally hated
it. One thing that can be done to good effect (and that many people
don't know about) is to use enamels on TOP of acrylics. I've seen
minis that were excellently done this way, though I don' think
bothering with the thinner is worth it, myself. My advice to the
newbie would be to use acrylics at first simply because they're less
messy and easier to work with, then have a go at enamels once he's got
some experience under his belt.
Brian T. Forsythe
cr...@erinet.com
Dougl75071
> I just started getting into miniatures and was wondering about some
> opinians on paints. I am interested especially in what brands are
> generally good, which looks better, matte or gloss, and techniques for
> showing different textures. Any advice would be appreciated!
I personally use a variety of paints for my miniatures. Generally I
prefer Partha Paint for their rich, creamy texture and substance. I have
found these to be the best for the most part. For metals, the Armory
makes a really good line, much better than any other I've tried. In the
past I've used Citadel paints, but haven't like them much. They seemed to
be too watery and didn't cover the figure without quite a few successive
coats of paints. They do make a great line of inks and washes though,
which I find indispensible when painting any miniature. I don't care too
much for a gloss finish on the figure so I use a mixture of varnishes.
After letting the paint dry thoroughly, at least 24 hours since the last
coat, I spray with a light coat of Partha Figure flat. I let this dry
about 12-24 hours and then spray another light coat on. Partha varnish is
a little too glossy for my taste, though, so I wait for another 24 hours
and then spray with a coat of Figure Flat by Floquil. If the paint is
still too glossy I spray a final coat of Figure flat to really bring it
down. However, metals are meant to be somewhat shiny, in which case The
Armory makes an armour coat gloss which can be brushed onto any parts that
are meant to be glossy. Look at real life examples and you'll see what is
meant to be glossy. Most clothing, skin and hair isn't. It's kind of
dull, but metals and certain leathers are.
Doug Burton
Paul Stokstad
: I just started getting into miniatures and was wondering about some
: opinians on paints. I am interested especially in what brands are
: generally good, which looks better, matte or gloss, and techniques for
: showing different textures. Any advice would be appreciated!
I use acryilic paints for most things, but I use enamels for metallic
colors. I like the acryilic paints better because of the ease of
thinning and cleanup, and because I know I'm not frying my brain spending
long hours hunched over a source of toxic fumes. My personal preference
is for Polly S, mostly because I like the thinner consistency, but I
agree heartily with everyone who complains that their bottles are a pain
to deal with.
I use enamel paints for metallic colors because I've never found a
decent metallic acryillic paint. One thing you might try if you use
enamels, by the way, is using turpentine rather than paint thinner to
thin your washes; it seems to have lower surface tension, and so it moves
much more aggressively into the depressions, which works especially well
for armor. I mostly use Testors because they are cheap and they come in
small bottles.
Josh Goodman is absolutely right that one of the secret to making a
figure look really good is to put several thin layers of paint on it.
It takes longer, but it's worth it.
--Paul Stokstad
Carlos Rodriguez
based. Having had the opportunity to work in a paint store, I can say that
'enamel' is descriptive of the hardness of the apint after it dries. It does
not describe wether a paint is latex/acrylic or Alkyd/oil. Not that important,
but something to consider. Check Britts excellent FAQ for lots of info on
paints and techniques. I have seen people have good results with both
expensive and inexpensive paints, and must attribute the majority of the
good-looking minis to technique. I myself have used RalPartha, Citadel, and
Polly and think them all to be good paints. Give em a shot, but make sure that
the paints are not too old when you buy them.
Carlos
Andrew S Goldstein
>>(Something I've learned after a while painting: your figures will look a
>>lot better if you apply several thin coats of a color rather than a few
>>thick coats, so be patient and go for the thin layers.)
>YES YES YES. This one point is *the* point to get on painting!
I agree; absolutely.
>>Thinning with paint thinner isn't really a problem. I think washes are
>>harder to do with oil paints than with water paints, because the thinner
>>in the wash will re-wet the paint beneath the wash -- so you have to
>apply
>>it and wait for it to dry without doing any brush strokes on it or you'll
>>mess it up.
>You can still do this with acrylics too if you are in a rush. For me, I
>just couldn't get the thinner/paint mix down, and then I had a problem
>with the upper layers picking up the bottom layers, even after a full 24
>hours of drying! I am glad I tossed those minitures away! For me though,
>I guess I just appreciate the availability of water as a thinner instead
>of turps. Never have to dash off to the store because you ran out!
I've also had quite a problem using washes in enamel paints...for this
reason, I hardly ever use enamels in situations that require heavy
shading. For anyone interested in trying it, though, it might be
possible if you paint in layers from darkest to lightest, using a little
less paint on your brush each time, to get a shading/highlight effect,
although I haven't actually tried this.
Note, however, that you can use enamels to your advantage if you want to
blend your colors...enamels blend much better than acrylics. Place two
colors next to each other and blend with a light wash of turps, and you
can get a terrific blending from one color to the other, and it comes out
nice and smooth.
>>The one true advantage of oil-based paint over water-based acrylics that
>I
>>have seen is the brightness of color. I don't know why this is, but there
>>are some really intense hues available in oil-based paint that I've never
>>seen in water-base.
>I think the enamels dry "harder" too, but it's been a long long time since
>I messed with them.
The color brightness really can be nice when used well. Testor's
metallic colors are also far superior to any metallic acrylics, IMHO.
Nothing better for a gleaming blade :)
One technique I haven't heard too much about but I use quite frequently
is combining enamels and acrylics. Contrary to what I've been told, I've
found them to work together quite well, as long as you paint the enamel
over the acrylic and make sure that the paint underneath is totally dry.
I use enamels' high-gloss look for things like weapons, armor, vehicle
bodies, and dragon scales, and as I said, I rarely use highlighting or
shading with enamels. I've found that their reflectiveness to be enough
to make details stand out anyway; the only exception for me is with large
areas like dragon scales where a little highlighting makes a nice
enhancement.
Note that I only use glossy enamels, so I can't really speak up in
defence of mattes.
Andrew S Goldstein
>I use enamel paints for metallic colors because I've never found a
>decent metallic acryillic paint.
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is that Testor's, in
addition to producing a great range of "normal" metallic colors like gold
and silver, also produce a line of colored metallics like metallic red,
green, and blue. I believe that these are both sold separately and all
together as a set.
Alec Habig
>The worst design? Why does bottle shape matter? You don't paint out
>of an open bottle, do you? Good way to get your paints half-hardened,
>and ruin their consistency...
Bottle design matters gobs, even if you paint off a pallet.
While taking care with the paints reduces the number of goobered bottles that
won't open, it's nice to have a bottle with a nice, wide cap that never sticks
even if you mess up and leave paint on the cap's threads.
The Partha bottles also don't break if you're a klutz and drop one on a hard
floor. Playing baseball with the jars might bust open a few, but they're
impervious to anything less.
--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://www.astro.indiana.edu/home/ahabig/
Ban the Bomb: Make the world safe for conventional warfare!
Alec Habig
>aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) wrote:
>
>>A cheaper substitute - spray cans of primer from the hardware store. I've
>>had wonderful luck with Krylon, and it's a couple of bucks per can cheaper.
>
>In my experience, these are enamel, no? I had a can of enamel primer
>once when I was new to this -- ACK! Oil and water don't mix...
Uh-oh, someone better warn all my figures that they should have turned into
sludge years ago.... :)
Yes, Krylon is enamel.
However, if the coats of paint dry before the next one is applied, it doesn't
matter if the paint is water, turpentine, or oil based.
For priming, the spray enamel primers perform better than acrylic, brush on
primers.
1) easier. Prime whole mobs with one flick of the wrist.
2) these paints stick to metal better. There's a reason that they're the
primer of choice for things like auto body painting.
Besides, if you're using the miniature company spray primers, you're already
using enamel, just paying more for the name on the label.
Richard Hale
'jgoo...@cc.swarthmore.edu (Joseph Goodman)' wrote:
>As a side note, the only people I've ever heard really fervently defend
>water-based acrylics are employees of companies that manufacture those
>kinds of paints. (I've never heard anyone fervently defend oil-based
>enamels. ;) People who just like to paint don't seem to get too worked up
>about it.
clean up.
Now if you want to argue, the best miniatures that I have ever seen were
painted with artists oil paint. The slower drying allows blending wet on
wet to create astonishing realism and there are some much more vibrant
colors. Acrylics can get close to the blending by using retarders, enamels?
I used them at first but after I discovered ...
--
Richard Hale
Miles Van Pelt
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) wrote:
>One big plus for Ral Partha - the jars are the best in the industry.
I disagree, I like Citadel's jars cause you can cut the top off and use it to
drop a dab of paint on the pallette after you shake the pot. Also the tops just
pop on, I lost all my RP just cause I didn't want to break my wrists twisting
the caps shut.
Robert Michael Marko
>Uh-oh, someone better warn all my figures that they should have turned into
>sludge years ago.... :)
>Yes, Krylon is enamel.
>However, if the coats of paint dry before the next one is applied, it doesn't
>matter if the paint is water, turpentine, or oil based.
<snip>
I disagree. It is OK to paint oil-based on water-based but not the other way
arund. Sure if the oil-based is well dried it isn't too much of a problem,
but oil can take years to perfectly dry. The oil will continue to "move"
during this time. If you have a perfectly dry water-based coat on top, this
top layer may peel after a time. The key word here is MAY.
I have seen the effects on a painting, and they can take as little as a couple
of years so be warned.
Just something to think about.
Mike Marko, Orc Warlord of Pain, Sufforing, and Poetry
umma...@ccu.umanitoba.ca
--
Mike Marko, Orc Warlord of Pain, Sufforing, and Poetry
Destroyer of Elves and their kin.
umma...@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Robert Michael Marko
>Bill Nitsche
>bnit...@u.washington.edu
Another palette you can use is a sheet of glass. It works perfectly since
you can clean it up by letting it soak in water for a couple of minutes and
just scrape the paint away. One small sheet of glass will last forever.
Alec Habig
>I disagree. It is OK to paint oil-based on water-based but not the other way
>arund. Sure if the oil-based is well dried it isn't too much of a problem,
>but oil can take years to perfectly dry. The oil will continue to "move"
>during this time. If you have a perfectly dry water-based coat on top, this
>top layer may peel after a time. The key word here is MAY.
>
>I have seen the effects on a painting, and they can take as little as a couple
>of years so be warned.
Yes, I can see that. It would really suck to have a miniature shed its paint a
couple years down the road :)
However, keep in mind that artist oil based stuff, the slow-drying kind used in
oil paintings, is rarely (although spectacularly) used on minatures.
The more common "oil" based paints, ala Testor's or Krylon, is actually mineral
spirits based. That dries happily overnight.
William McHarg
>Crom <cr...@erinet.com> wrote:
>>The worst design? Why does bottle shape matter? You don't paint out
>>of an open bottle, do you? Good way to get your paints half-hardened,
>>and ruin their consistency...
>Bottle design matters gobs, even if you paint off a pallet.
>While taking care with the paints reduces the number of goobered bottles that
>won't open, it's nice to have a bottle with a nice, wide cap that never sticks
>even if you mess up and leave paint on the cap's threads.
>The Partha bottles also don't break if you're a klutz and drop one on a hard
>floor. Playing baseball with the jars might bust open a few, but they're
>impervious to anything less.
Alec, could you please post the rules to Paint Bottle Baseball? I
think we may have new hit on our hands... :)
- -
I am trying to find myself. If I should return before I come
back, please ask me to wait.
Larry Fausnacht
"display-only" figures, such as 54mm or larger.
The drying time of oils pretty much eliminates them from use on
wargaming figures, which are often painted the night before a game so
they can suprise the opponent. Oils can be painted over other
paints, but not much will really hold onto oils well. just the
nature of the game, really.
Stick with water-based acrylics or enamels and you should do fine.
Just remember to seal coat your figures when you are done painting
them to prevent handling-related paint rubs. Stick with matte
finishes for the best results.
- Larry F.
Yale F. Edeiken
>
> Alec, could you please post the rules to Paint Bottle Baseball? I
> think we may have new hit on our hands... :)
>>
her?
--YFE
Andrew L. Miller
dfvan...@aol.com (DFVance001) wrote:
>In article <4jv1nv$s...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tyr...@aol.com (Tyranid)
>writes:
>2) Use something plastic and white as a pallet. I have used lids off of
>the margarine tubs, but right now am into comic book bags with a piece of
>white backing card inside -- it is easier to mix the colors on a pristine
>white background.
I have found a smooth, white, ceramic, 5" x 5" bathroom tile works the
best -- it's white, durable, and easy to clean.
--
Andrew L. Miller
--
Andrew L. Miller
http://home.aol.com/DrewLM
Kennedy How
Somebody had an unfortunate accident right outside my driveway and dumped a
box of decent china; there was broken stuff everywhere. I saved a few pieces
to use.
Kennedy
--