Gettin' good: A primer on painting ponies (II)
MRTINJ
the historical NG. Several people have brought it to my attention that its
been six weeks since I posted anything new on this particular subject and as I
promised to explain how I went about slapping paint on horsies, it would only
be right and fair that I do so. Immedietely.
STANDARD DISCLAIMER: Last time I tried this I upset several members of our
happy little usenet family who found me insufferably arrogant and pushy. I am
NOT, I repeat, NOT, the best figure painter in the whole bleepin' world - I am
just one of the bleepin' fools who try to make his living painting 'em. And
hopefully some people who are wondering what to do next or what they are doing
wrong might find my ideas helpful. My apologies to anyone who thinks I'm
wasting bandwidth better suited for discussions of the vehicles in "Private
Ryan" or why "Napoleon's Battles" is evidence that the anti-Christ walks among
us.
TEXT FILE AVAILABLE: I've collected all my postings (excepting the ones that
were 'afire when I got 'em) into one reasonably coherent document. It contains
my previous ideas, suggestions and methods in much more detail than I can do
here, so anyone who is unfamiliar with the terms to follow should either get a
copy from me or go visit Dejanews for a copy of the June thread. Except where
absolutely necessary, I will assume (most probably a false hope) that people
reading this posting will have followed the previous thread and have some idea
just what the hell I'm yammering on about.
GETTING STARTED (ABRIDGED): All figures should be cleaned and primed white or
grey; I never prime figures black. I mount horse and rider together before I
paint them. Blocking is just base painting. Staining is putting a very heavy,
forthy mixture of paint and water over an area previously blocked. Washing is
doing the same but with a much thinner mixture of paint and water. The fetlock
is the portion of a horse's leg just above the hoof; the cannon is the portion
of the between the fetlock and the knee. Blazes are white markings on a horses
head; cuffs are white markings on and/or above the horse's fetlocks.
BASIC METHOD: The following describes my basic process for painting a horse. I
always completly finish the horse and its saddle furniture before I paint any
colors on the rider.
a) Paint the base green.
b) Block-in the horse's primary coat color - this will always be lighter in
tone than what you expect the horse to look like when finished.
c) Once the primary coat color has dried throughly, completely stain it with a
much darker color (as described in each individual horse section).
d) Once dried, give the coat a wash with a dark color (as detailed). Allow to
dry thoroughly.
e) Block-in the hooves - I use a khaki color although some people prefer
charcoal black.
f) If the horse type has a dark cannon or muzzle, block-in the base color.
g) Block-in the mane and tail with a base color and allow to dry.
h) Stain the cannon/muzzle (if required) and tail/mane with a color as
described in the particular horse section.
i) Paint the cuffs and blazes - I prefer to vary the horse's markings by not
marking each horse's forehead or the same legs.
j) Paint the saddle cloth, including edging and bags.
k) Paint the saddle (if visible) and the leather harness.
l) Paint the rider, starting from the boots up - see the text file for more
details of my particular method for painting infantrymen for further
instructions.
NOTE ON PAINTS: "CC" indicates Ceramcoat by Delta, "PS" indicates the original
Polly-S brand (not the new Polly-scale which I have yet to try). "Pure"
indicates a standard color where no description is necessary.
Painting BLACK horses:
Primary coat color : CC Hippo Grey - a medium grey with no blue tone.
Coat stain: CC Charcoal - a very dark grey, almost black.
Coat wash: "Pure" Black.
Cannon / muzzle : As coat.
Mane / tail: "Pure" black. I will often drybrush Hippo Grey as a highlight.
White cuffs / blazes?: Yes, in any combination.
Painting DARK CHESTNUT horses:
Primary coat color: CC Toffee Brown - a medium tan.
Coat stain: CC Brown Velvet - a very dark, rich brown.
Coat wash: "Pure" Black.
Cannon / Muzzle: As coat.
Mane / tail: Either blocked CC Hippo Grey and stained CC Charcoal OR blocked
CC Light Chocolate (a very pale tan) and stained CC Spice Brown (a medium brown
with strong reddish tone). I will typically paint half my dark chestnuts with
"black" manes/tails and the remainder tan.
White cuffs / blazes?: Yes, in any combination.
Painting LIGHT CHESTNUT horses:
Primary coat color: CC Terra Cotta - an earth orange with strong brown tones.
Coat stain: A mix of two colors in equal parts - CC Spice Brown (see above)
and PS Venetian Dull Red (closest color I can think of is red oxide primer, but
darker).
Coat wash: CC Brown Velvet.
Cannon / Muzzle: As coat.
Mane / tail: Blocked CC Light Chocolate and stained CC Spice Brown.
White cuffs / blazes?: Yes, in any combination.
Painting DARK BAY horses:
Primary coat color : CC Spice Brown.
Coat stain: A mix of two colors in equal parts - CC Brown Velvet and "Pure"
Black.
Coat wash: "Pure" Black.
Cannon / Muzzle: Blocked PS Grimy Black and stained "Pure" Black.
Mane / tail: Blocked "Pure" black, drybrush highlighted with CC Hippo Grey.
White cuffs / blazes?: Not typically.
Painting LIGHT BAY horses:
Primary coat color: Ral Partha Khaki.
Coat stain: A mix of two colors in equal parts - CC Toffee Brown and CC Spice
Brown.
Coat wash: CC Brown Velvet
Cannon / Muzzle: Blocked CC Spice Brown and stained "Pure" Black.
Mane / tail: Blocked CC Hippo Grey and stained CC Charcoal.
White cuffs / blazes?: Not typically.
.
.
.
.
Whew! That should cover your basic brown and black horses. Next time I'll
deal with paler shades like duns, greys and whites.
I hope that someone will find this useful.
Martin J.
Blaze
Don't worry about it. It's just better to ignore it. I came in the middle of those
posts. That's back when I couldn't post to the news group and did good to find new
messages. There are folks new to the hobby and learning to paint that find this
info helpful. Not to mention, you have as much right to post as they do. Besides
this is the Historical, this is the historical miniatures news group, not the movie
news group. However, just like I don't have a problem with your posts, I didn't
have a problem with the private Ryan posts. I saw the movie and found it pretty
disturbing.
Anyhow, I paint as a hobby. Funny, I find it actually relaxes me, which some folks
tell me it does the opposite for them. I'm currently painting Colonials, and mass
numbers of Zulus. Using a lot of dry brushing too.
Just to add some constructive info from a amateur level. I find that it's easier
to paint figs after putting them on popcycle stick or tongue depressers. You can
get a huge box of popscycle sticks cheap at the craft store. Glue the fig to the
stick, I try to keep it about 3 to a stick. It speeds up painting, especially if
the major amounts of your colours are repetitive. Such as the british uniform. You
have to seperate your figs enough to get easy access to each, and you can even to
one fig per stick if you prefer. I found the final bases a bit hard to work with,
and I also tend to wipe excess paint onto the stick as I go. So I tend to wind up
with extra paint on the stick. I have found that my method works really well with
mass painting figs. Especially, if you air gun the base color such as zulu's flesh.
I prefer to dry brush my horses after putting a base color on. Especially, if they
are nicely molded figs.
Why don't you use black primer? I know it's probably a matter of preference, but I
find that a black primer works really well on 25mm for shading. But of course, I
dry brush and use mutiple levels of color.
From experience in helping other folks that want to learn to paint, I've found
that the biggest threat is the fear of messing up. Folks need to take tips and find
out what works best for them. I had to experiment before I found I prefer
drybrushing over washes and inks.
However, I did find your information interesting, and to be honest, I don't see
what the problem is. No where in your post did you state that you knew it all. I
would suggest that you mention alternate ideas and why you don't use them. New
painters might be wondering about doing it that way.
Also, if possible, I find that if the figs are 2 pieces that it's easier to paint
the rider then carefully glue him to the horse.
As for horse markings, there is some distinction for breed of horse. Like the
Appalusa for example. However, you're right the markings won't be exactly the same.
I also, like to go back and touch up other areas when I see I've accidently
overlapped paint.
Did you cover sealers in June?
Oh yeah, I tried some texture paint I picked up at the craft store. Works pretty
neat except it seems to make the base heavier. I think that is a plus since, the
more weight you have on the base the more stable the fig is.
Blaze
MRTINJ
>Don't worry about it. It's just better to ignore it.
>Not to mention, you have as much right to post as they do. Besides
>this is the Historical, this is the historical miniatures news group, not the
>movie
>news group
My standard disclaimer was meant as Sarcasm....perhaps I should have used a :)?
> Just to add some constructive info from a amateur level. I find that it's
>easier
>to paint figs after putting them on popcycle stick or tongue depressers.
Actually, I use individual painting stands instead of multiple figures on a
wooden stick for three reasons:
1) My painting posture is with both hands resting on the table, so maneuvering
a long wooden stick would be impossible without leaning back in my chair and
holding it up to the light source.
2) I find I cannot paint a figure accurately if I paint first one side and
then the other as I move along a multiple-figure stick. In addition staining
(my primary means of painting) doesn't work very well if I cannot chase a drop
of watery color all around the figure once it is applied.
3) When you try to "pop" a figure off a wooden stick, more often than not you
get a lump of glue complete with numerous shards of imbedded wooden splinters.
Which I find a real nusiance to deal with.
>I prefer to dry brush my horses after putting a base color on. Especially, if
>they
>are nicely molded figs.
>
Whatever works for you is the ideal method.
>Why don't you use black primer? I know it's probably a matter of preference,
>but I
>find that a black primer works really well on 25mm for shading. But of
>course, I
>dry brush and use mutiple levels of color.
I don't use a black primer on figures because I use a stain-painting technique
instead of a dry-brushing technique. It is too difficult to get good coverage
with the initial paler colors over a black primer so white is always prefered.
But a black primer is essential if you are using a dry-brushing technique
(which I use on buildings and terrain pieces) and which I do have mastery of -
I have an entire set of expensive artist's brushes which I use solely for
dry-brushing large pieces.
> However, I did find your information interesting, and to be honest, I don't
>see
>what the problem is. No where in your post did you state that you knew it
>all. I
>would suggest that you mention alternate ideas and why you don't use them.
N'Huh - won't touch that one with the proverable ten-foot pole. I took enough
flak over target in the past just describing my method - no need to re-enact
the fire bombing of Dresden by pointing out what I think might be wrong with
other methods of painting! :)
>Also, if possible, I find that if the figs are 2 pieces that it's easier to
>paint
>the rider then carefully glue him to the horse.
Actually, I find that quite impossible because a) there is no way to hold the
rider when I paint him without rubbing paint off in the process and b) my
fingers cramp-up from holding something so small so tightly for so long.
>Did you cover sealers in June?
I use only Krylon satin-finish acrylic sealer - offers the best protection I've
ever found. My professional painter friends (who paint cranes and buildings
and such) say its chemical composition is about equal to what they use
commercially.
> Oh yeah, I tried some texture paint I picked up at the craft store. Works
>pretty
>neat except it seems to make the base heavier.
Texture paint? What, pray tell, is texture paint? Perhaps an old dog can
indeed be taught a new trick?
Thanks Blaze, for the kind words and I'm glad you find some of my ideas useful,
at least as a basis for comparison.
Martin J.
Blaze
These are the more enjoyable types of discussion. Hope you don't mind, but I'm
gonna drop some of the quotes. Our posts are kind of long. I just feel that this is
a public forum. Given we're all or mostly active in the gaming world in some form
or another and are posting information to that affect, it shouldn't be that big of
a deal. As you've shown, if you're asked a specific question, you are quite
prepared to explain it and still haven't said this is the only way to do the job.
Just why you do it and you it's better for you. People can't learn unless they have
information, and constructive opinions.
Sorry, I'd figured you were being sarcastic, but to be honest, you shouldn't have
had to say anything at all. Someone telling you that you were just wasting
bandwith, was about the same thing as me telling them that they were wasting space
and time with their comments. It'd been more constructive to say I do it this way,
how is your method an improvement over it etc..
Ah you're painting on painting stands not the final base. I misunderstood.
Sometimes I restrict myself to one fig per stand, and still generally do multiple
figs of the same color. Once I get a pattern down, I pretty much manage to get it
going. I just bog down on detail work. And it also depends on size of fig and how
much detail. Yes I do have to clean the bottoms off, which is why I learned to be
careful not to use too much glue. I thought about using hot glue, but havent' tried
it yet. I like to hold my figs on the stick in one hand and paint with the other.
My desk is too low to set it down. I know some guys that use hemostats, clamps with
scissor handles and lock in place. As for not mounting the guy on the horse. Yes it
is a bit more work trynig to stick him on a popcycle stick by his feet, but it
seems easier to paint for some reason. I just finished an armored elephant with
driver in one piece 15mm and I didn't like it that way. Same for cav. I generally
paint all the way around rather than one side. Helps to keep the paint from blobing
up. Fore example the british red coat on the first fig then the next.
Yeah, I think that folks just need to relax, listen to various suggestions. Give
them a try and find what they are comfortable with. I can tell them just like you
what I do, and at the same time I suggest they experiment with what I suggest and
try a few other things to see what they are comfortable with. The only thing I am
specific with is that they should prime with a good primer, clean the figs unless
they like the flash lines, and seal the fig. Other than that you can do most any
thing. I try to recommend brands I know I like and at the same time suggest others
to try and see if they like. I still think that the CC and DC paints at the craft
store are the better buy, and colors match pretty close. The only think I haven't
matched to my satisfaction is flesh and metal tones, and I've gotten close with
those.
Stain Painting. That is a new one on me. Is that like inks or washes? Yeah, I do
have a bit of trouble with light over dark, but it is something I put up with in
order to get the affect I want on the shading. The stuff I paint w/ lighter colors
generally needs to stand out anyhow. So I even use multiple coats of the lighter
colors. Yeah, the only black I've found so far that covers like I need it to is
armory and even then I have to make sure I don't miss any spots, and even if I do,
I just paint over those spots and live without the additional shading. I know what
you're talking about though. I do paint some stuff where I put a solid coat on the
bottom and then dry brush the lighter over it.
Brushes. I can't afford to buy expensive brushes. I go through them too fast. Once
the tip starts to go, that's it for my detail brush. I tried the expensive ones for
a while, but found it was better to just buy cheapies and toss them when they get
too bad. Actually, not that cheap 2 bucks a piece. mostly American Painter. I use
10/0 or 20/0 if I can find them, for detail work. Larger brushes for larger areas.
Howard Hughes used to give away some nice sized brushes for drybrushing, but he's
sold his painting line and now I miss getting those brushes. Haven't been able to
find any since. I prefer the short tip to the long. I tried long tipped for a
while, but you don't have the same control or at least I didn't.
Well if you get bored, I guess you no have another idea.(G) After all it's not
like you're facing the Zulu nation at Rorke's drift.(G) Or is it? It wasn't like
you said it was the only way to paint. I'm sure the lurkers enjoyed it. I was just
frustrated I couldn't post. I gave up posting because the majority of my notes
weren't going up and spent 2 weeks getting w/ compuserve to fix the problem. Still
ended up posting test notes to find out if it worked or not. Funny thing was they
went up.
Yeah, I do have to glue the riders feet to a stick. Which goes back to the extra
effort to clean the guy and paint his feet after you glue him to the horse. It's
just a matter of preference.
Krylon sating finish, I get gloss coat (clear paint) and since I don't like the
shiny look on some of my figs so I put dull coat on them after the gloss coat
dries. dulls it a bit. I did find out that there is something in the chemical make
up of the two. Dullcote breaks down quicker when in contact with hand oils, but is
better than nothing. Gloss coat (probably the same as your satin finish) while it
glosses, seals better and doesn't break down as fast when in contact with hand
oils. So what I understand it's better to start with that. What's the difference
between Satin finish and Clear gloss coat? I generally go with what's cheap, except
the dullcoat is testors. Have you found a difference?
Texture Paint: Well from what I've heard it's relatively new. I know there have
been some notes from one of the distributors online that he carried it. That's
where I first found out about it. He'd told us what he had, and I looked him up at
Historicon. I'm not one to spend a large sum of money into something like that
without trying it out. I'm happy with my geohex paint( which I prefer because it's
thicker than the DC and CC and perfect for this) and static grass. The static grass
covers the edge of the bottom of the fig enough to blend it in. Anyhow, I was
wanting a bit of a change, I mean after 400 Zulu 200+ british 80+ boers, you need a
change. Anyhow, they were out of the small size containers. That's what I got for
waiting till Sun to check it out. I didn't want to pay for a larger size. So I
decided to check out the stores here. Some craft stores do carry a similar product.
I bet the art supply stores even have more variety, but I haven't managed to follow
up on that. Anyhow, i found Deco Art Snow-Tex. White which mixes with your CC and
DC paints. The only problem is that it's white and you have to mix a bit of color
to get it dark as you like. I added a bit of water to loosen it up more so I could
have a thick paint or paste. It's pretty thick, and you can apply it with a small
paintes spatula or use a brush. Might need to experiment. Anyhow, it has something
in it that makes it looked textured when it dries. Some have sand like stuff etc..
You'll probably just want to get a small container and give it a whirl. With this
stuff, it's in a 2 oz bottle and only costs 94 cents here. Not a bad investment to
give something a try. Looks pretty cool to use for snow. Mixing dark brown paint
turns into a tan color that looks like dirt or sand. You can smooth it around the
base enough to blend the base into the stand you wish to use. Solves that problem.
Again, you probably have a method such as putty you prefer. I just found that if I
could do this cheap as the other way, I could actually use this as the base
material and even dry brush over it to add texture or black wash it to add texture.
The only draw back is that you have to let it dry 3 hours before additional
painting. You probably can get a bottle at the craft store. For a buck it might be
interesting to play around with. I'm still trying to find some of the other types.
I have seen one that has a course texture, but it was in too big of a bottle and
was more than I wanted to spend. Plus I found this one. I'm not sure what's in it
at this point, but I know something is, because I accidently watered a batch down
too much and when it dried you could see the texture fragments and where the water
had left texture bare spots. The paint was there, but not the texture. It still was
a cool affect though, because it offered the difference in rough spots and smooth.
Take a look. Unless you're really rich, I wouldn't just order the expensive stuff.
you might not like it. I can see if I still have their web adress if you want it
though.
Hey, I'm glad that we can have such a nice conversation over painting. Hey, if you
really want to get into posting your painting techniques, you could always set up a
forum in the free area of Delphi. Then when someone asks you can direct them there.
But then again. you shouldn't have to do that.
blaze
Tim Marlow
Blaze <01B...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
<35DF2FC5...@compuserve.com>...
Snip Snip
>much detail. Yes I do have to clean the bottoms off, which is why I learned
to be
>careful not to use too much glue. I thought about using hot glue, but
havent' tried
Why not try a rubber glue, such as copydex (UK), it holds them firm enough
to paint, but rubs off easy when the time comes
Snip Snip
>scissor handles and lock in place. As for not mounting the guy on the
horse. Yes it
>is a bit more work trynig to stick him on a popcycle stick by his feet, but
it
Why stick him on his feet, turn the stick on its edge and stick him to it
end on, around the butt region.
snip snip
only thing I am
>specific with is that they should prime with a good primer, clean the figs
unless
>they like the flash lines, and seal the fig.
hear hear
snip snip
> I try to recommend brands I know I like and at the same time suggest
others
>to try and see if they like. I still think that the CC and DC paints at the
craft
>store are the better buy, and colors match pretty close. The only think I
haven't
>matched to my satisfaction is flesh and metal tones, and I've gotten close
with
>those.
try artists oils, or acrylics, paint is cheaper, and easier to mix yourself.
snip snip
> Brushes. I can't afford to buy expensive brushes. I go through them too
fast. Once
>the tip starts to go, that's it for my detail brush. I tried the expensive
ones for
>a while, but found it was better to just buy cheapies and toss them when
they get
>too bad. Actually, not that cheap 2 bucks a piece. mostly American Painter.
I use
>10/0 or 20/0 if I can find them, for detail work. Larger brushes for larger
areas.
>Howard Hughes used to give away some nice sized brushes for drybrushing,
but he's
>sold his painting line and now I miss getting those brushes. Haven't been
able to
>find any since. I prefer the short tip to the long. I tried long tipped for
a
>while, but you don't have the same control or at least I didn't.
try artists synthetic flats, a quater inch should do. also, series seven
winsor and newton last forever if looked after. I have one that is about
seven years old, and has done about 1000 figures.
> Yeah, I do have to glue the riders feet to a stick. Which goes back to the
extra
>effort to clean the guy and paint his feet after you glue him to the horse.
It's
>just a matter of preference.
see earlier suggestion, after all your going to stick him down with the
glued on bit.
Gloss coat (probably the same as your satin finish) while it
>glosses, seals better and doesn't break down as fast when in contact with
hand
>oils. So what I understand it's better to start with that. What's the
difference
>between Satin finish and Clear gloss coat? I generally go with what's
cheap, except
I use household varnishes, ronseal (UK). start with gloss to seal, then
matt if preferred. when the matt rubs off, its softer after all, you can
revarnish, and none of your painting is lost
> Hey, I'm glad that we can have such a nice conversation over painting.
Hey, if you
>really want to get into posting your painting techniques, you could always
set up a
>forum in the free area of Delphi. Then when someone asks you can direct
them there.
>But then again. you shouldn't have to do that.
>blaze
>
I have only just logged into this group, sorry to have missed the rest of
the post.
Tim
Blaze
Welcome aboard. Martin posted a series on his painting techniques he uses, and
I was just comparing them to mine, and trying to find new inventive ways to do
things that could be better than what I'm doing now. If you're game, Martin has
a copy of his previous posts, you can probably request.
Rubber glue? You mean rubber cement? I haven't really tried any other
variation. I've recently started using hot glue for terrain. It was perfect for
gluing my frayed twin to my Colonial building, and other things. I use my Zap
glue because it dries pretty fast, and I don't hold onto the fig too long. The
same thing should also hold true for the hot glue, since it adheres and cools
pretty fast. However, the advantage of the Zap is that I have debonder, but
still I prefer just cutting it off the stick and scraping. I'll have to take a
look.
I tried putting the stick like that, but I found it easier for me to do it my
way. I like setting the fig down while it dries, and using the stick on edge
like that tends to fall over. With the Zap it dries fast enough that I don't
have to hold the fig long. If I stick him by his feet, I can keep it flat on the
table. I guess you could say it's a matter of preference. There's no set way to
do it, it's just what I'm more comfortable with. Back to the hemostats, I don't
like them because sometimes they leave marks on the figs.
Well as far as I'm concerned, cleaning figs, primer, and sealer are the most
consistant parts of painting. They are the only thing that have to be done
depending on the painter's preference. However, like the rest of painting, folks
still develope their own technique for all three.
Artist oils, acrylics: I use Cream Coat(CC) and (Dream Coat(DC) as well as
Apple barrel paints. It's something I've started switching over in the past
year. I really can't use the oil based or anything that requires a thinner to
clean brushes. I can't use stuff that give off a lot of odors, because the
aggrivate my sinus. Mixing paints is something, that I can't seem to do well. I
can never get the same color twice even if I measure the amounts. I guess I just
need practice. Your right it is cheaper. I think that it pretty much off sets
the cost for the more expensive. I switched to the craft brands over gaming
brands, not for cost, but for easy access. I can run to the craft store down the
street, buy 4 shades of the same color to see which one I'll like best. The
beauty of it is, I generally manage to hit the store when it's on sell for 69
cents a bottle and even if I don't need the other 3 bottles for that job, I'll
use them for something elese.
Brushes: I'll have to take a look. I know those brushes tend to be expensive,
but I'll see if my store carries the ones you mentioned.
Household Varnish? That is different. You two are the first two I've heard from
that use varnish and stains, but then again, what you call a varnish or stain
may be different from what I call a varnish or stain. I don't know. Are we
talking about Stains and Varnish, like the wood colors you'd paint a door or
wood facing on the wall? The shiny stuff? Sorry, I still trying to figure this
one out. I use a brown colored laquer on my Piquet movement bases to help keep
the wood from warping and make them look nice. I used magnets on top of my
movement bases, and individually based my figs. I finally figured out that it'd
be easier, to individually base both my 15's and 25's and make movement stands
for differnent rules. since my figs are on metal bases, I put magnets on the
movement stands and it seems to work okay. Probably a bit more orderly than most
folks like. I can always remove them from the movement stands when I get closer
to hand to hand combat. If I find a set of rules I like, I'm hoping to make
shorter movement stands and use the 28mm figs. They'll mix in then.
Tim, sorry you missed out. You're here now. Just jump in.
Blaze
Tim Marlow wrote:
> Blaze <01B...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> <35DF2FC5...@compuserve.com>...
> Snip Snip
>
> >much detail. Yes I do have to clean the bottoms off, which is why I learned
> to be
> >careful not to use too much glue. I thought about using hot glue, but
> havent' tried
>
> Why not try a rubber glue, such as copydex (UK), it holds them firm enough
> to paint, but rubs off easy when the time comes
>
> Snip Snip
>
> >scissor handles and lock in place. As for not mounting the guy on the
> horse. Yes it
> >is a bit more work trynig to stick him on a popcycle stick by his feet, but
> it
>
> Why stick him on his feet, turn the stick on its edge and stick him to it
> end on, around the butt region.
>
> snip snip
>
> only thing I am
> >specific with is that they should prime with a good primer, clean the figs
> unless
> >they like the flash lines, and seal the fig.
>
> hear hear
>
> snip snip
>
> > I try to recommend brands I know I like and at the same time suggest
> others
> >to try and see if they like. I still think that the CC and DC paints at the
> craft
> >store are the better buy, and colors match pretty close. The only think I
> haven't
> >matched to my satisfaction is flesh and metal tones, and I've gotten close
> with
> >those.
>
> try artists oils, or acrylics, paint is cheaper, and easier to mix yourself.
>
> snip snip
>
> > Brushes. I can't afford to buy expensive brushes. I go through them too
> fast. Once
> >the tip starts to go, that's it for my detail brush. I tried the expensive
> ones for
> >a while, but found it was better to just buy cheapies and toss them when
> they get
> >too bad. Actually, not that cheap 2 bucks a piece. mostly American Painter.
> I use
> >10/0 or 20/0 if I can find them, for detail work. Larger brushes for larger
> areas.
> >Howard Hughes used to give away some nice sized brushes for drybrushing,
> but he's
> >sold his painting line and now I miss getting those brushes. Haven't been
> able to
> >find any since. I prefer the short tip to the long. I tried long tipped for
> a
> >while, but you don't have the same control or at least I didn't.
>
> try artists synthetic flats, a quater inch should do. also, series seven
> winsor and newton last forever if looked after. I have one that is about
> seven years old, and has done about 1000 figures.
>
> > Yeah, I do have to glue the riders feet to a stick. Which goes back to the
> extra
> >effort to clean the guy and paint his feet after you glue him to the horse.
> It's
> >just a matter of preference.
>
> see earlier suggestion, after all your going to stick him down with the
> glued on bit.
>
> Gloss coat (probably the same as your satin finish) while it
> >glosses, seals better and doesn't break down as fast when in contact with
> hand
> >oils. So what I understand it's better to start with that. What's the
> difference
> >between Satin finish and Clear gloss coat? I generally go with what's
> cheap, except
>
> I use household varnishes, ronseal (UK). start with gloss to seal, then
> matt if preferred. when the matt rubs off, its softer after all, you can
> revarnish, and none of your painting is lost
>
> > Hey, I'm glad that we can have such a nice conversation over painting.
> Hey, if you
> >really want to get into posting your painting techniques, you could always
> set up a
> >forum in the free area of Delphi. Then when someone asks you can direct
> them there.
> >But then again. you shouldn't have to do that.
> >blaze
> >
>
Andy O'Neill
<mrt...@aol.com> writes
>> Just to add some constructive info from a amateur level. I find that it's
>>easier
>>to paint figs after putting them on popcycle stick or tongue depressers.
>
>wooden stick for three reasons:
>
>1) My painting posture is with both hands resting on the table, so maneuvering
>a long wooden stick would be impossible without leaning back in my chair and
>holding it up to the light source.
>2) I find I cannot paint a figure accurately if I paint first one side and
>then the other as I move along a multiple-figure stick. In addition staining
>(my primary means of painting) doesn't work very well if I cannot chase a drop
>of watery color all around the figure once it is applied.
>3) When you try to "pop" a figure off a wooden stick, more often than not you
>get a lump of glue complete with numerous shards of imbedded wooden splinters.
>Which I find a real nusiance to deal with.
Umm, hot water gets around that.
I paint 6mm figures glued onto corrugated card strips, anything bigger
and I find multiple figures awkward to handle.
As you say, there's a tendency (I find) to badly painted bits in the
awkward areas.
I use magnetic basing on my 25s. Adopted this initially so I could
carry the figures easier, and they'd 'stick' to movement trays.
Got the local blacksmith to chop up 1mm thick steel sheet into
appropriate sizes, glue these to the base of figures.
Blu-tacked to an old paint can ( a couple of inches diameter, ie
comfortable fist sized ) I have a strong, flat magnet. Well, two
actually, one side I have two pieces of sprue blu-tacked around the
magnet so a 20mm sq base has no chance of slipping.
I paint a batch of figures, one colour at a time. Line them up in an
orange box and pick each up in turn. Whack em on the magnet, paint
(stain usually) and plop onto the 'finished' end of the orange box.
I fid a rigid tray handy, and they can be stacked so I can mix work on
several batches to vary what I'm painting.
The steel - magnet attraction is strong enough that you can waggle the
can around upside down and the figure will not come off.
Horsies stick on the other side, with no sprue collar.
With cavalry I've recently switched the way I do em. Still undecided
which I prefer.
Used to glue the rider on and then paint the lot.
This avoids that embarassing moment when you realise that the rider's
legs won't fit without scraping the saddlecloth.
OTOH, it can be awkward.
Recently I glued blocks of balsa to the top of my 20mm steel squares,
stuck half cocktail sticks through the top, point uppermost.
Drill hole in riders' bum.
PVA cocktail stick into hole.
Once painted, dump figure in hot water for 2 minutes or so, and the
stick can be removed, contraption re-used.
Glue to saddle using PVA, fix scrapes whilst swearing.
Staining is definitely the way to go for fast and average + quality. It
does require a lot more skill than layered dry brushing, and I find if
one makes mistakes it can take longer.
If you're neat, then the technique is easily worth the trouble switching
to.
The blending technique used by modellers who write for magazines such as
military modelling et al, this can produce really excellent results.
The drying time of oils is both an advantage in this, and rather
frustrating, in that either you bake them in a slow cooker, or figures
can take up to weeks to dry sufficiently to seal.
For that 120mm dfigure you always dreampt of sticking in a glass dome on
the coffee table... that's the technique to go for.
I do know people who only get spare time every week or so, if that's
you, then the disadvantage of oils is not really going to effect you
much.
Winsor Newton water mixable oils are very good, and no nasty turps.
On posture.
I have a case which I place on top of my table. Foam goes on the edge
of this, I rest my arms on this to avoid leaning over.
ANgle poise lamp with blue/sunlight bulb in it for lighting, although I
prefer the real thing if available.
Andy O'Neill
Remove the x for email, similar to below
Wargames site at www.l-25.demon.co.uk/index.htm
Rick Rutherford
> indeed be taught a new trick?
Texture paint is essentially a pot (or tube) of acrylic medium with stuff
mixed into it, like sands with different sizes of grains, or tiny plastic
beads of different shapes & colors. You can mix them with whatever color
you like, or paint over the texture after it has dried.
I've used Liquitex texture paint once before, to create a rough surface
over some plastic craters I had bought.
--
Rick Rutherford
ri...@skycache.com
(301) 598-0500 x2420
http://www.skycache.com
Steve Miller
www.kontos.net
Rick Rutherford <ri...@nimbus.skycache.com> wrote in article
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