Russo-Japanese War ships painting guide
Norm Koger
ships? My resources suggest a variety of colors and schemes. I am
particularly interested in paint and wood colors for IJN Mikasa and
the Russian ship Kniaz Suvorov.
Regards,
Norm Koger
Software Developer
http://home.austin.rr.com/normkoger/
Martin Rapier
<tt7l8tsd0e3fquvc9...@4ax.com>...
> Does anyone know of a good painting guide for Russo-Japanese war
> ships? My resources suggest a variety of colors and schemes. I am
> particularly interested in paint and wood colors for IJN Mikasa and
> the Russian ship Kniaz Suvorov.
This is a tough one, the sources are very contradictory as you say. In the
end I did my Mikasa based on the painting of it in action at Tushima -
Japanese blue grey (Humbrol Sea Grey) with white canvas and fairly light
coloured decks (possibly black funnel tops as well).
The Suvurov is tricker - some of the Russian ships had Victorian style
black hull/white uppers/ buff funnels but I only did that scheme on the
older ships. I did the Suvurov a fairly dull mid grey, darker decks than
the Japanese, but kept the buff funnels with black rings.
I think at the club we currently have no less than four Russo-Japanese war
fleets, and they all seem to painted different colours!
Cheers
Martin.
Mariko
so, does this mean that you may be working on a computer game of this theme
or that you are also a miniature gamer?
Anyways, as someone pointed out sources are contradictory. That said, there
is a neat little page in Russian on the Battle of Tsushima with numerous
drawings of the ships many of which are in colour at:
http://www.ipclub.ru/arsenal/angar/WWI/navy/
This should give you something to work with.
Cheers,
Winky
ah
Unfortunately, I've packed up my books in preparation to move
but amazingly, I've found two separate instances indicating
that the Russian Port Arthur fleet was painted brown. One
was the "McCully Report" written by a US naval officer that
was there and a quote from H.W. Wilson's "Battleships In Action"
which also mentioned that the Port Arthur ships were brown-painted
- although he may be quoting the other reference.
Another thing that I noted in photos was that the Retvizan was a
single color when she was beached after a torpedo hit. Could be
grey but more likely brown. From memory, I recall some other
photos purporting to be the last photos of the Baltic Fleet before
their appointment with destiny. The hulls appeared black and stacks
were either white or perhaps buff and I believe that several vessels
were different.
I also remember reading that the Japanese ships were grey but
nothing more specific without my books.
Alan
Minadmiral
I've gone with Wilson (chocolate brown) for 30 years, for the Russian First
Pacific Squadron ships. These were the Russian ships stationed at Port Arthur
and Vladivostok at the start of the war. Got McCully (khaki or cinnamon? brown)
last year and painting my 1:6000 his way. Since McCully was there I think he's
probably more correct. But I'm not re-painting the 1:2400 and the
scratch-built 1:1200 ships.
The Second and Third Pacific Squadrons sent out from European Russia had the
standard black / buff / white color scheme.
Easy to find examples of this in many books.
The Japanese were a light grey over all. Perhaps with a faint tinge of green
to it.
Most torpedo boats on both sides were a dark grey or black. Again with some
variation for the Russian First Pacific Squadron craft.
Get a copy of McCully. It was re-printed by The US Naval Institute not too
long ago. Try> http://.bookfinder.com/< and search on McCully as author. Not
too expensive.
Norm Koger
>Japanese blue grey (Humbrol Sea Grey) with white canvas and fairly light
>coloured decks (possibly black funnel tops as well).
That's a pretty good description of the way Mikasa is painted right
now - and although I can't actually find anything claiming so, it's a
good bet that the folks maintaining the ship as a museum would choose
to have it painted in the Tsushima scheme if possible. The deck wood
appears to be pretty dark in recent photos, but I don't know if it's
the original wood or if current maintenance treatment would leave it
with the same appearance as when the ship was operational.
>The Suvurov is tricker - some of the Russian ships had Victorian style
>black hull/white uppers/ buff funnels but I only did that scheme on the
>older ships. I did the Suvurov a fairly dull mid grey, darker decks than
>the Japanese, but kept the buff funnels with black rings.
Where does the buff come from? Everything I've found shows either
yellow or white funnels. Is the buff intended to be a weathered
yellow?
The only really clear photos I've found of Kniaz Suvorov show a very
high contrast between the hull and funnels. On the other hand, I don't
have any dates on the Suvorov photos and the after battle shots of
Orel - which I would expect to have had the same paint scheme - show
much less apparent contrast. Looks like a coin flip on yellow (or
buff) vs. white.
Then there is the black paint on all the other metal surfaces. Even
though it's pretty clearly described as black in some of the news
accounts of the time. I wonder how black the "black" actually was.
Norm Koger
>Pacific Squadron ships.
I've heard about this brown color too, and I can't help but wonder
if it's not just the weathered appearance of the standard "black"
paint. If so, could be the most representative color all the way
around for the Russians might be a dark charcoal gray with a bit of
brown mixed in?
> Get a copy of McCully.
I will look into it.
I'm also considering getting the new Russian language "Russian
Imperial Fleet Encyclopedia" from Aviapress. Don't know much about it
though, and I chickened out when I ordered the Kombrig Kniaz Suvorov.
I decided to wait and see what kind of shape the kit arrives in before
venturing almost $80 for a promising but unknown reference. Aviapress
has an interesting reputation for shipping product wrapped in brown
paper, and twine, apparently relying upon the added strength of a
large number of Russian postal stamps for protection.
Norm Koger
Yep.
>...does this mean that you may be working on a computer game of this theme...
I wish. For some bizarre reason I am fascinated with relatively
obscure military history. The Russo-Japanese war is particularly
interesting. If I thought there were more than about 300 other
lunatics out there with the same interest I would love to do a
Russo-Japanese war game. But more popular topics (WWII, ACW) pay the
bills, and I have to be content sneaking the fun (to me) stuff in
around the edges. That's one of the reasons I've been doing scenario
based games for the last few years. Once the database and engine
development are pretty much out of the way I get to concentrate on
scenarios like Omdurman, Nomonhan, Korea, etc. while other scenario
designers beat on WWII and ACW.
No, this is just a mental health exercise. I'm dusting off my
ancient modeling tools to build a Kombrig Kniaz Suvorov and Seals
Models Mikasa (each 1/700 waterline resin kits) for the hell of it.
>... or that you are also a miniature gamer?
I used to be. My 1/2400 WWII naval miniatures fleet includes
everything CinC ever made in enough numbers to fill out every class
bigger than a destroyer, and either 5 or 10 of each destroyer class.
But I haven't heard dice rolled in anger for almost 20 years.
Martin Rapier
> >Are you the Norm Koger... computer wargames?
> Yep.
>
> >...does this mean that you may be working on a computer game of this
theme...
>
> I wish. For some bizarre reason I am fascinated with relatively
> obscure military history. The Russo-Japanese war is particularly
> interesting. If I thought there were more than about 300 other
> lunatics out there with the same interest I would love to do a
Mmm, well the nice thing about pre-dreadnoughts is that you get lots of
hulking great ships blazing away at each other without having to worry
about annoying distractions like submarines, aircraft, radar, missiles etc
There might be a bigger market for it than you think.
{snip}
> ancient modeling tools to build a Kombrig Kniaz Suvorov and Seals
> Models Mikasa (each 1/700 waterline resin kits) for the hell of it.
Mine are only 1/3000th scale - I can see why you need a bit more detail on
the painting scheme.
Cheers
Martin.
Joseph Lappin
"Norm Koger" <nko...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:upsn8t4i7ueg6m2r5...@4ax.com...
> >Are you the Norm Koger... computer wargames?
>
> Yep.
>
> >...does this mean that you may be working on a computer game of this
theme...
>
> I wish. For some bizarre reason I am fascinated with relatively
> obscure military history. The Russo-Japanese war is particularly
> interesting. If I thought there were more than about 300 other
> lunatics out there with the same interest I would love to do a
> Russo-Japanese war game.
Check and see how Avalanche Games' 1905 game sold.
> But more popular topics (WWII, ACW) pay the
> bills, and I have to be content sneaking the fun (to me) stuff in
> around the edges. That's one of the reasons I've been doing scenario
> based games for the last few years. Once the database and engine
> development are pretty much out of the way I get to concentrate on
> scenarios like Omdurman, Nomonhan, Korea, etc. while other scenario
> designers beat on WWII and ACW.
>
> No, this is just a mental health exercise. I'm dusting off my
> ancient modeling tools to build a Kombrig Kniaz Suvorov and Seals
> Models Mikasa (each 1/700 waterline resin kits) for the hell of it.
Can you tell me where you ordered the 1/700 scale 1905 waterline ships? I've
been dreaming of these for ages. All that makes it to the hobby shops here
in Nova Scotia is modern and WWII
> >... or that you are also a miniature gamer?
>
> I used to be. My 1/2400 WWII naval miniatures fleet includes
> everything CinC ever made in enough numbers to fill out every class
> bigger than a destroyer, and either 5 or 10 of each destroyer class.
> But I haven't heard dice rolled in anger for almost 20 years.
>
Dust off your dice. With Kids and work I only get to play about twice a
year but I still find lots of fun in a table covered (more or less) with
Lead.
Thanks, Joseph
Norm Koger
>been dreaming of these for ages.
The Kombrig (Combrig) Kniaz Suvarov is a Russian kit, currently only
available from Aviapress (http://www.aviapress.com/). Stories told by
the brave souls who've ordered from them are, well, amusing... I
haven't actually ordered the Mikasa yet, but it seems to be available
only from Hobby Link Japan. I plan to place the order at
http://www.hlj.com/ in the next day or so. The exact links are:
Suvorov: http://www.aviapress.com/viewproducer.htm?producers_code=COM
Mikasa: http://www.hlj.com/cgi-local/hljpage.cgi?intsmp-01
ah
Norm Koger wrote:
>
> >... I did my Mikasa based on the painting of it in action at Tushima -
> >Japanese blue grey (Humbrol Sea Grey) with white canvas and fairly light
> >coloured decks (possibly black funnel tops as well).
>
> That's a pretty good description of the way Mikasa is painted right
> now - and although I can't actually find anything claiming so, it's a
> good bet that the folks maintaining the ship as a museum would choose
> to have it painted in the Tsushima scheme if possible. The deck wood
> appears to be pretty dark in recent photos, but I don't know if it's
> the original wood or if current maintenance treatment would leave it
> with the same appearance as when the ship was operational.
Hard to say. They may operate like we do and guess unless they
have original paint samples. Paintings aren't 100% proof of a
certain appearance in much the same as photographs vary due
to exposure settings and lighting conditions. As an aside, I
haven't compared the Mikasa's current appearance with her 1905
appearance. As I recall, she sank once - possibly twice so she
may not be exactly like her Tsushima appearance!
>
> >The Suvurov is tricker - some of the Russian ships had Victorian style
> >black hull/white uppers/ buff funnels but I only did that scheme on the
> >older ships. I did the Suvurov a fairly dull mid grey, darker decks than
> >the Japanese, but kept the buff funnels with black rings.
>
> Where does the buff come from? Everything I've found shows either
> yellow or white funnels. Is the buff intended to be a weathered
> yellow?
>
> The only really clear photos I've found of Kniaz Suvorov show a very
> high contrast between the hull and funnels. On the other hand, I don't
> have any dates on the Suvorov photos and the after battle shots of
> Orel - which I would expect to have had the same paint scheme - show
> much less apparent contrast. Looks like a coin flip on yellow (or
> buff) vs. white.
I would guess buff - perhaps similar to dunkelgelb or panzer yellow.
Not really a yellow but more of a mustard color
>
> Then there is the black paint on all the other metal surfaces. Even
> though it's pretty clearly described as black in some of the news
> accounts of the time. I wonder how black the "black" actually was.
Don't forget scale distortion. It would probably be a shade of grey
varying according to the size of the model with smaller models
being lighter.
Alan
Minadmiral
I've got a couple of Russian language books lately. The few German language
texts I have can be figured out, at least the data tables, with a little
effort. But not the Russian. I have a nice book on Russian sailing warships
that I would dearly love to be able to read. And one on armored warships. How
do you scan 4-500 pages into babblefish??
Chuck Duggie
Minadmiral
Anyone interested in Russo-Japanese naval has to get McCully's book!!!
Chuck Duggie
Norm Koger
Would the "Russian Imperial Fleet Encyclopedia" be one of those
books? I'm _really_ tempted by that one.
>The few German language texts I have can be figured out...
>But not the Russian.
Is it just the Cyrillic that's causing the problem? If you haven't
already tried, you might pick up one of those little self study books
on Russian and a Russian-English dictionary. I did this a few years
ago and I was surprised at how easy it is to make sense of Russian
technical material once you get over the Cyrillic hurdle. A surprising
amount of Russian technical / military language needs no translation
at all. And if you are familiar with the Greek alphabet from an
engineering or science background, picking up Cyrillic takes about 30
minutes.
Joseph Lappin
are at home but I recolect they have tables of equivalent naval terms in
various languages. I can't recall all the languages but I think Russian and
Japenese are there. Also in the general section of each Navey colour
schemes are given. These are "official" and I recolect a comment that they
"may vary in foriegn stations".
Also the 1905 reprint contains commentary on the R-J war and a copy of Fred
Jane's naval rules
"Norm Koger" <nko...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nja29t84vjgoe88gg...@4ax.com...
BennettDK
>interesting. If I thought there were more than about 300 other
>lunatics out there with the same interest I would love to do a
>Russo-Japanese war game. But
Hiya Norm,
You ever wanna get back into mini's and do something REALLY obscure, a friend
and I are starting to build armies for the Great Paraguayan War and
Russo-Turkish War.
Your old gaming bud,
Dave Bennett
Webmaster - University Military History Gaming Society
http://utgaming.homestead.com
Drop by for a virtual visit!!
Norm Koger
>and I are starting to build armies for the Great Paraguayan War and
>Russo-Turkish War.
Sounds like fun, but where do you put all that stuff? I still don't
know where I'm going to find room in my office for three six inch long
ship models...
Minadmiral
>books?
This sounds interesting. Where did you find it?
Chuck Duggie