Battletech=Plagurism
Mr.Mechwarrior
This isn't ment to make me sound wierd,I mean I love battletech.
But why are most of the mechs (ie maruader,p.hawk,ect) copies of robotech
designs? I belive that even the locoust is off of a show called Crusher
Joe. Why?
Capella Ueber Alles
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make Mr.Mechwarrior (bbr...@king.kingsedge.windsor.ns.ca) say:
# This isn't ment to make me sound wierd,I mean I love battletech.
# But why are most of the mechs (ie maruader,p.hawk,ect) copies of robotech
# designs? I belive that even the locoust is off of a show called Crusher
# Joe. Why?
First off, the word is "plagiarism". Plagiarism is the taking of
another's idea and passing it off as being completely your own. Your
heading is a grossly false application of the word. FASA freely admits
that it bought the rights to the ARTWORK for the Original 14 'Mechs, and
that yes they are from various anime. However, when FASA first started
BattleTech, they needed some artwork to go with their mechs, and they
decided to use something that might be familiar to people who are already
familiar with Robotech, Macross, and other such anime. And so, FASA went
to the Japanese creators and BOUGHT THE RIGHTS TO THE ARTWORK[1].
They did NOT steal anything, they did NOT plagiarise anything. THEY DID
EVERYTHING ABOVE-BOARD AND LEGALLY.
--Camille. Saban can wait--Playmates and Harmony Gold have got to die
first.
[1]Caps are for emphasis, not volume enhancement.
--
I said it. You read it. I'm not taking it back.--Drew Lanz.
All unsolicited commercial e-mail coming to this account is subject to a
service charge of $250 per piece of mail.
To subscribe to the Ministry of BattleTech mailing list, send e-mail to
majo...@polarnet.com with the words 'subscribe tmobml' in the body.
Scopedog
Capella Ueber Alles wrote:
>
> Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make Mr.Mechwarrior (bbr...@king.kingsedge.windsor.ns.ca) say:
> # This isn't ment to make me sound wierd,I mean I love battletech.
> # But why are most of the mechs (ie maruader,p.hawk,ect) copies of robotech
> # designs? I belive that even the locoust is off of a show called Crusher
> # Joe. Why?
>
> First off, the word is "plagiarism". Plagiarism is the taking of
> another's idea and passing it off as being completely your own. Your
> heading is a grossly false application of the word. FASA freely admits
> that it bought the rights to the ARTWORK for the Original 14 'Mechs, and
> that yes they are from various anime. However, when FASA first started
> BattleTech, they needed some artwork to go with their mechs, and they
> decided to use something that might be familiar to people who are already
> familiar with Robotech, Macross, and other such anime. And so, FASA went
> to the Japanese creators and BOUGHT THE RIGHTS TO THE ARTWORK[1].
>
> They did NOT steal anything, they did NOT plagiarise anything. THEY DID
> EVERYTHING ABOVE-BOARD AND LEGALLY.
>
> --Camille. Saban can wait--Playmates and Harmony Gold have got to die
> first.
artwork?!?!"... I'd sure like to know the answer to that... Screw
familiarity, I like MKZ and HG designs... It's not like anybody in the
U.S. had actually heard of Crusher Joe back then, or possibly even
Dougram... And heck, nobody'd heard of Macross either; it hadn't come
out as Robotech yet... Forgive me if this turnip has been squeezed
beyond blood and death...
Robert Holland
> > First off, the word is "plagiarism". Plagiarism is the taking of
> > another's idea and passing it off as being completely your own. Your
> > heading is a grossly false application of the word. FASA freely admits
> > that it bought the rights to the ARTWORK for the Original 14 'Mechs, and
> > that yes they are from various anime. However, when FASA first started
> > BattleTech, they needed some artwork to go with their mechs, and they
> > decided to use something that might be familiar to people who are already
> > familiar with Robotech, Macross, and other such anime. And so, FASA went
> > to the Japanese creators and BOUGHT THE RIGHTS TO THE ARTWORK[1].
> >
> artwork?!?!"... I'd sure like to know the answer to that... Screw
> familiarity, I like MKZ and HG designs... It's not like anybody in the
> U.S. had actually heard of Crusher Joe back then, or possibly even
> Dougram... And heck, nobody'd heard of Macross either; it hadn't come
> out as Robotech yet... Forgive me if this turnip has been squeezed
> beyond blood and death...
Here's how I heard it--correct me _politely_ if I'm wrong.
FASA chose to use ripped-off designs, not for familiarity (as Scopedog
said, Robotech hadn't been released here yet) but because their artists
at the time were absymally bad (anyone who's seen the 1st or 2nd edition
boxed sets, or the 1st edition CityTech, will attest to this) and they
needed better artwork than they could produce if they wanted the game to
sell. In the 2nd edition boxed set, there were four kinds of art: some
passable paintings, pictures photocopied directly from the Macross model
boxes (complete with U.N. Spacy logos), line drawings traced from the
above, and some 8th-grade-art-class level original drawings. Now, I'm
not sure about this part, but my understanding was that FASA originally
used the images WITHOUT permission; when Robotech was released here and
Harmony Gold sued, FASA settled out of court for equal rights to the
images.
--
| Robert Holland
\ | / a.k.a. Silverdrake
\/--/ \--\/ Co-writer/Artist, The Rare 'Mech Times
-< \ / >- http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ward_w/btech.html
\ /
|) (| "Reality is a crutch for those who can't handle
\_/ fantasy." --Marion Zimmer Bradley
Scopedog
grader failed so many times he was just forced up a grade? As it
happens, I quite like -some- of the art in Citytech ed. 1... But the
simple fact is, the mecha design art has only been getting worse... The
first few FASA originals were interesting and some were actually pretty
good, but now it's all basically crap... Even Loose has lost his
touch...
ATM-09-ST: Scopedog
"I am far mightier than that which is quite less mighty than me."
William E. Ward
In article <57f7d6$u...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, Capella Ueber Alles <cap...@primenet.com> writes:
> Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make Mr.Mechwarrior (bbr...@king.kingsedge.windsor.ns.ca) say:
> # This isn't ment to make me sound wierd,I mean I love battletech.
> # But why are most of the mechs (ie maruader,p.hawk,ect) copies of robotech
> # designs? I belive that even the locoust is off of a show called Crusher
> # Joe. Why?
>
> another's idea and passing it off as being completely your own. Your
> heading is a grossly false application of the word. FASA freely admits
> that it bought the rights to the ARTWORK for the Original 14 'Mechs, and
> that yes they are from various anime. However, when FASA first started
> BattleTech, they needed some artwork to go with their mechs, and they
> decided to use something that might be familiar to people who are already
> familiar with Robotech, Macross, and other such anime. And so, FASA went
> to the Japanese creators and BOUGHT THE RIGHTS TO THE ARTWORK[1].
>
> EVERYTHING ABOVE-BOARD AND LEGALLY.
Speaking of Plagurism.... I just wanted to tell everyone out there who
has a Web site they are proud of to be careful... Most of you know that
my site takes submissions.... well, I had a person submit a design that
was on another site, slightly modified (and I mean >SLIGHTLY<) even in
the text. I try to keep a nice site.... and >I< had to put effort and
time into rewriting the less acceptable stuff, at the same time the
plagurist was complaining about it not being up (In fact, I think I told
you about that, Camille!) via email and annoying me with his attitude...
and then it had to be yanked (immediately... I don't broke with dishonesty,
and neither does Bob Holland) .. kinda STILL got me teed off!
So, I'll post the person's name, right here, for everyone to know:
So, anyone getting something from this person.... ignore him, until he
can do his OWN work, and not take credit for someone elses.
<Getting off my Soapbox, but still seething at this jerk>
--
William Ward
The Rare Mech Times
Issue #1 http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ward_w/btech.html
Issue #2 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2781/
fasa...@aol.com
In article <329B9D...@hal-pc.org>, Scopedog <sel...@hal-pc.org>
writes:
>I think he means: "Why the hell didn't they commission -original-
>artwork?!?!"... I'd sure like to know the answer to that... Screw
>familiarity, I like MKZ and HG designs... It's not like anybody in the
>U.S. had actually heard of Crusher Joe back then, or possibly even
>Dougram... And heck, nobody'd heard of Macross either; it hadn't come
>out as Robotech yet... Forgive me if this turnip has been squeezed
>beyond blood and death...
The un-familiarity was exactly the point. FASA at the time was a very
small company (5, maybe 6 full-time employees?) with no cash to
speak of, and no good art contacts. By virtue of association they knew
people who could arrange the anime licensing, which included the
best art around at the time (remember, no one was drawing
giant robots in the US at that point), and so....
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactve
Jayme Kinneberg
Do not quote me on this but in 1985 fasa bought the rights to those
designs. And since that day the right liense has run out. Therefore that
required fasa to take all the designs off the market.
--
Thats my two C-Bills not yours.
General Ryler, Assualt Strike Team
First Ryles Irregular Battlemech Division
AKA : Jayme Kinneberg
"No Guts. No Galaxy."
Robert Holland
> > FASA chose to use ripped-off designs, not for familiarity (as Scopedog
> > said, Robotech hadn't been released here yet) but because their artists
> > at the time were absymally bad (anyone who's seen the 1st or 2nd edition
> > boxed sets, or the 1st edition CityTech, will attest to this) and they
> > needed better artwork than they could produce if they wanted the game to
> > sell. In the 2nd edition boxed set, there were four kinds of art: some
> > passable paintings, pictures photocopied directly from the Macross model
> > boxes (complete with U.N. Spacy logos), line drawings traced from the
> > above, and some 8th-grade-art-class level original drawings. Now, I'm
> > not sure about this part, but my understanding was that FASA originally
> > used the images WITHOUT permission; when Robotech was released here and
> > Harmony Gold sued, FASA settled out of court for equal rights to the
> > images.
> So they consider the current art 9th grade level? Or is it that the 8th
> grader failed so many times he was just forced up a grade? As it
> happens, I quite like -some- of the art in Citytech ed. 1... But the
> simple fact is, the mecha design art has only been getting worse... The
> first few FASA originals were interesting and some were actually pretty
> good, but now it's all basically crap... Even Loose has lost his
> touch...
Come to think of it, CityTech had a few well-done black-and-whites. But
really, I can't get over that picture in the 2nd edition boxed set of a
a Warhammer punching a Phoenix Hawk, where (A) the Warhammer is opening
one of the shoulder pods to reveal the Robotech SRMs and (B) both 'Mechs
are direct tracings of the box art, with minimal alteration of the
Rifleman's left arm to swing it over and bap the Phoenix Hawk in the arm
while it stands striking a pose. Or the one of the cardboard-box-looking
Griffin firing from the six-inch-thick Wile E. Coyote ledge at the
equally cardboard-box-looking Warhammer below. Sorry, but those crossed
the line from poorly planned and executed professional art to severely
nonprofessional art. I prefer the worst of the current stuff. (Okay,
almost the worst.)
Capella Ueber Alles
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make Jayme Kinneberg (ka...@cadvision.com) say:
# Do not quote me on this but in 1985 fasa bought the rights to those
# designs. And since that day the right liense has run out. Therefore that
# required fasa to take all the designs off the market.
Wrong. FASA has the rights in perpetuity. It was Playmates and Harmony
Gold getting together with the intent to (eventually) force FASA into
bankruptcy that caused FASA to pull the artwork.
The word here is "survival".
--Camille.
Robert Holland
> Speaking of Plagurism.... I just wanted to tell everyone out there who
> has a Web site they are proud of to be careful... Most of you know that
> my site takes submissions.... well, I had a person submit a design that
> was on another site, slightly modified (and I mean >SLIGHTLY<) even in
> the text. I try to keep a nice site.... and >I< had to put effort and
> time into rewriting the less acceptable stuff, at the same time the
> plagurist was complaining about it not being up (In fact, I think I told
> you about that, Camille!) via email and annoying me with his attitude...
> and then it had to be yanked (immediately... I don't broke with dishonesty,
> and neither does Bob Holland) .. kinda STILL got me teed off!
I wouldn't get too upset about it, Bill--it wasn't our fault and it was
caught before any damage was done. It's a very unfortunate occurence,
and it's hard to see what kind of thrill he got out of seeing someone
else's work put up on the Web. But, in any case, no real harm was done.
Oh, and for future reference--anybody _other_ than Bill Ward calls me
Bob and they get their intestines removed. :> With him it's the whole
William-Robert/Bill-Bob thing--it just fits. :)
Scopedog
interesting artists now? Anything more on the order of VMI-style would
be nice, especially the cel pics... Just go crazy with that, and you've
got yourself a true winner on your hands! I've always dreamed of Btech
story and game-mechanics combined with HG-quality art...
>
> Tom Dowd
> FASA Interactve
--
Rich Adams
Robert Holland (rmh...@pop.uky.edu) wrote:
: > > First off, the word is "plagiarism". Plagiarism is the taking of
: > > another's idea and passing it off as being completely your own. Your
: > > heading is a grossly false application of the word. FASA freely admits
: > > that it bought the rights to the ARTWORK for the Original 14 'Mechs, and
: > > that yes they are from various anime. However, when FASA first started
: > > BattleTech, they needed some artwork to go with their mechs, and they
: > > decided to use something that might be familiar to people who are already
: > > familiar with Robotech, Macross, and other such anime. And so, FASA went
: > >
: > I think he means: "Why the hell didn't they commission -original-
: > artwork?!?!"... I'd sure like to know the answer to that... Screw
: > familiarity, I like MKZ and HG designs... It's not like anybody in the
: > U.S. had actually heard of Crusher Joe back then, or possibly even
: > Dougram... And heck, nobody'd heard of Macross either; it hadn't come
: > out as Robotech yet... Forgive me if this turnip has been squeezed
: > beyond blood and death...
: Here's how I heard it--correct me _politely_ if I'm wrong.
Well, you're assumptions, wherever you got them, are generally wrong.
FASA licensed they Dougram/Crusher Joe designs. It's been beaten on for
years and still someone manages to come out from under a rock somewhere
who hasn't heard the truth and spreads rumors. Heaven help you if _you_
ever go into business and want to use someone elses artwork.
: FASA chose to use ripped-off designs, not for familiarity (as Scopedog
: said, Robotech hadn't been released here yet) but because their artists
: at the time were absymally bad (anyone who's seen the 1st or 2nd edition
: boxed sets, or the 1st edition CityTech, will attest to this) and they
: needed better artwork than they could produce if they wanted the game to
: sell. In the 2nd edition boxed set, there were four kinds of art: some
: passable paintings, pictures photocopied directly from the Macross model
: boxes (complete with U.N. Spacy logos), line drawings traced from the
: above, and some 8th-grade-art-class level original drawings. Now, I'm
: not sure about this part, but my understanding was that FASA originally
: used the images WITHOUT permission; when Robotech was released here and
: Harmony Gold sued, FASA settled out of court for equal rights to the
: images.
: --
: | Robert Holland
: \ | / a.k.a. Silverdrake
: \/--/ \--\/ Co-writer/Artist, The Rare 'Mech Times
: -< \ / >- http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ward_w/btech.html
: \ /
: |) (| "Reality is a crutch for those who can't handle
: \_/ fantasy." --Marion Zimmer Bradley
--
~ Rich Adams [DNRC] Women move in strange and mysterious ways.
~ ri...@alpha.delta.edu I can never find any of my stuff after
~ sp...@genie.geis.com they have moved it.
Ken
On 27 Nov 1996 fasa...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <329B9D...@hal-pc.org>, Scopedog <sel...@hal-pc.org>
> writes:
>
> >I think he means: "Why the hell didn't they commission -original-
> >artwork?!?!"... I'd sure like to know the answer to that... Screw
> >familiarity, I like MKZ and HG designs... It's not like anybody in the
> >U.S. had actually heard of Crusher Joe back then, or possibly even
> >Dougram... And heck, nobody'd heard of Macross either; it hadn't come
> >out as Robotech yet... Forgive me if this turnip has been squeezed
> >beyond blood and death...
>
> The un-familiarity was exactly the point. FASA at the time was a very
> small company (5, maybe 6 full-time employees?) with no cash to
> speak of, and no good art contacts. By virtue of association they knew
> people who could arrange the anime licensing, which included the
> best art around at the time (remember, no one was drawing
> giant robots in the US at that point), and so....
>
Yeah, and Tom's stick-figures o' doom really didn't remind many of
omnipotent war machines.... ;)
Ken'
Hawke
Robert Holland wrote:
> I wouldn't get too upset about it, Bill--it wasn't our fault and it was
> caught before any damage was done. It's a very unfortunate occurence,
> and it's hard to see what kind of thrill he got out of seeing someone
> else's work put up on the Web. But, in any case, no real harm was done.
He probably got the thrill out of getting away with it not getting
noticed
> Oh, and for future reference--anybody _other_ than Bill Ward calls me
> Bob and they get their intestines removed. :> With him it's the whole
> William-Robert/Bill-Bob thing--it just fits. :)
How about Bobby? Or Rob? Or Robby?.... No, that's that stupid robot from
Forbidden Planet. Hey! I've got an idea for a mech!
Oh yeah, I'd like to see the intestine removal tried... But not on me...
I've already had my appendix out.. And I'm a 250lb 6ft Tight End (Don't
snigger)
--
--Still got no darn Sig--
Chris....@nt.com (At work)
scau...@aol.com (At home - Scautura: Shadow Beast)
Hawke
Robert Holland wrote:
> I wouldn't get too upset about it, Bill--it wasn't our fault and it was
> caught before any damage was done. It's a very unfortunate occurence,
> and it's hard to see what kind of thrill he got out of seeing someone
> else's work put up on the Web. But, in any case, no real harm was done.
He probably got the thrill out of getting away with it not getting
noticed
> Oh, and for future reference--anybody _other_ than Bill Ward calls me
> Bob and they get their intestines removed. :> With him it's the whole
> William-Robert/Bill-Bob thing--it just fits. :)
How about Bobby? Or Rob? Or Robby?.... No, that's that stupid robot from
Forbidden Planet. Hey! I've got an idea for a mech!
--
Wolf
With the net result being that were losing some of the best 'Mech
desings ever made, plagurism or not. Now with evenm the models being
taken off the market its getting almost nigh impossible to get them....
Wolf
Scopedog
Robert Holland wrote:
>
> > > FASA chose to use ripped-off designs, not for familiarity (as Scopedog
> > > said, Robotech hadn't been released here yet) but because their artists
> > > at the time were absymally bad (anyone who's seen the 1st or 2nd edition
> > > boxed sets, or the 1st edition CityTech, will attest to this) and they
> > > needed better artwork than they could produce if they wanted the game to
> > > sell. In the 2nd edition boxed set, there were four kinds of art: some
> > > passable paintings, pictures photocopied directly from the Macross model
> > > boxes (complete with U.N. Spacy logos), line drawings traced from the
> > > above, and some 8th-grade-art-class level original drawings. Now, I'm
> > > not sure about this part, but my understanding was that FASA originally
> > > used the images WITHOUT permission; when Robotech was released here and
> > > Harmony Gold sued, FASA settled out of court for equal rights to the
> > > images.
> > grader failed so many times he was just forced up a grade? As it
> > happens, I quite like -some- of the art in Citytech ed. 1... But the
> > simple fact is, the mecha design art has only been getting worse... The
> > first few FASA originals were interesting and some were actually pretty
> > good, but now it's all basically crap... Even Loose has lost his
> > touch...
>
> Come to think of it, CityTech had a few well-done black-and-whites. But
> really, I can't get over that picture in the 2nd edition boxed set of a
> a Warhammer punching a Phoenix Hawk, where (A) the Warhammer is opening
> one of the shoulder pods to reveal the Robotech SRMs and (B) both 'Mechs
> are direct tracings of the box art, with minimal alteration of the
> Rifleman's left arm to swing it over and bap the Phoenix Hawk in the arm
> while it stands striking a pose. Or the one of the cardboard-box-looking
> Griffin firing from the six-inch-thick Wile E. Coyote ledge at the
> equally cardboard-box-looking Warhammer below. Sorry, but those crossed
> the line from poorly planned and executed professional art to severely
> nonprofessional art. I prefer the worst of the current stuff. (Okay,
> almost the worst.)
stuff easily, but I guess just about anybody can do that... I might be
a match for the current direction the art is going, though...(woo,
Grieg, woo)...
> --
> | Robert Holland
> \ | / a.k.a. Silverdrake
> \/--/ \--\/ Co-writer/Artist, The Rare 'Mech Times
> -< \ / >- http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ward_w/btech.html
> \ /
> |) (| "Reality is a crutch for those who can't handle
> \_/ fantasy." --Marion Zimmer Bradley
--
William E. Ward
<snip>
> I wouldn't get too upset about it, Bill--it wasn't our fault and it was
> caught before any damage was done. It's a very unfortunate occurence,
> and it's hard to see what kind of thrill he got out of seeing someone
> else's work put up on the Web. But, in any case, no real harm was done.
>
> Oh, and for future reference--anybody _other_ than Bill Ward calls me
> Bob and they get their intestines removed. :> With him it's the whole
> William-Robert/Bill-Bob thing--it just fits. :)
Yep, The B-n-B boys of the RMT.
But seriously, if I knew you preferred Robert, I would call you Robert.
I answer to so many names, I've never considered any bad (welllll... not
true... I only like it when one person calls me Will (my dear old Dad,
who used to say (everytime he hit his finger with the hammer) "Will, you
get .... grumble.... the... grumble... icepack"... or was that "Will you"?
Hmmmmm..... ;)
Seriously though, Robert it is!
But ya can still call me Bill
----
William E. Ward
In article <329DBC...@nt.com>, Hawke <Chris....@nt.com> writes:
> Robert Holland wrote:
> How about Bobby? Or Rob? Or Robby?.... No, that's that stupid robot from
> Forbidden Planet. Hey! I've got an idea for a mech!
>
no, wait, that's the OTHER robot.... sorry...
<remembering something about a team of mechs, a Wyvern and an Urbanmech, going
around, kicking Clan Butt by accident, and their missadventures with a guy
named "Leak Sprytalker"... use the farce, Leak!>
--
William C Walker
On 26 Nov 1996, Mr.Mechwarrior wrote:
> This isn't ment to make me sound wierd,I mean I love battletech.
> But why are most of the mechs (ie maruader,p.hawk,ect) copies of robotech
> designs? I belive that even the locoust is off of a show called Crusher
> Joe. Why?
>
>
>
We over on the east coast Mass came up with the same question...
Theoretical Answer: We believe Kevin Siembieda (One of the artists in
both RIFTS and Robotech RPG), used to work for FASA. If so the art on
Btech is _his_ work or something like that... We haven't worked this
theory out that far but this is what we're all thinking... If someone
knows we're wrong please slap me upside the head and tell us whats going
on... =)
---rooks the eternal newbie
David Crowe
Scopedog <sel...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
: I wish I could be one of their neato artists... I can surpass the old
: stuff easily, but I guess just about anybody can do that... I might be
: a match for the current direction the art is going, though...(woo,
: Grieg, woo)...
Well, if you mean that, then send in some samples. Take action rather
than just moaning on a newsgroup. (Note to attorneys: I am not in any way
an employee of FASA.)
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe No generalization is true
-not even this one.
Emery Calame
William C Walker <wwa...@world.std.com> wrote in article
<Pine.SGI.3.93.961201...@world.std.com>...
Oh Mah! God! Comedic genius ladies and gentlemen! Wooo hah!
(He *can't* be serious! Ptttbbbttt!!!)
:)
Em
Anthony Kim
William C Walker wrote:
> We over on the east coast Mass came up with the same question...
> Theoretical Answer: We believe Kevin Siembieda (One of the artists in
> both RIFTS and Robotech RPG), used to work for FASA. If so the art on
> Btech is _his_ work or something like that... We haven't worked this
> theory out that far but this is what we're all thinking... If someone
> knows we're wrong please slap me upside the head and tell us whats going
> on... =)
> ---rooks the eternal newbie
What happened is when Battletech came out, FASA _licensed_ those designs
for the game from the original designers.
Ick, don't even mention Robotech. Harmony Gold is on my own personal
jihad list. Once you've seen other anime, you realize that this was a
major hack job, and that it does not even compare well against those 3
_separate_ unrelated series that were spliced together for Robodrek.
-Tony Kim
Overste Lojtnant, Free Rasalhague Republic Marine Corps, 10th Regt.
fasa...@aol.com
In article <01bbdc7b$a29b5e80$5660...@kajah.cadvision.com>, "Jayme
Kinneberg" <ka...@cadvision.com> writes:
>Do not quote me on this but in 1985 fasa bought the rights to those
>designs. And since that day the right liense has run out. Therefore
that
>required fasa to take all the designs off the market.
>
>
Again, FASA has had and maintains the rights to use those images. They
have been removed from the game to avoid continuing to have to defend
those rights in court and elsewhere. Only the images have been
removed, the `mechs are still vaild for all forms of play.
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
fasa...@aol.com
In article <329C07...@pop.uky.edu>, Robert Holland
<rmh...@pop.uky.edu> writes:
>FASA chose to use ripped-off designs, not for familiarity (as Scopedog
>said, Robotech hadn't been released here yet) but because their artists
>at the time were absymally bad (anyone who's seen the 1st or 2nd edition
>boxed sets, or the 1st edition CityTech, will attest to this) and they
>needed better artwork than they could produce if they wanted the game to
>sell. In the 2nd edition boxed set, there were four kinds of art: some
>passable paintings, pictures photocopied directly from the Macross model
>boxes (complete with U.N. Spacy logos), line drawings traced from the
>above, and some 8th-grade-art-class level original drawings. Now, I'm
>not sure about this part, but my understanding was that FASA originally
>used the images WITHOUT permission; when Robotech was released here and
>Harmony Gold sued, FASA settled out of court for equal rights to the
>images.
>--
That's close, except the images were always licensed and used under
those licenses. FASA used the images with full permission prior
to the creation of Robotech. At the time Robotech came out
Harmony Gold made noises about suing, but didn't at that time.
There was no settlement, if for no other reason than
Harmony Gold wouldn't have settled for "equal rights" to those
images.
Adios!
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
fasa...@aol.com
In article <329EFC...@hal-pc.org>, Scopedog <sel...@hal-pc.org>
writes:
>I wish I could be one of their neato artists... I can surpass the old
>stuff easily, but I guess just about anybody can do that... I might be
>a match for the current direction the art is going, though...(woo,
>Grieg, woo)...
Then submitt sample artwork to FASA. Check out their web page
at www.FASA.com for art submission guidelines.
Tom Dowd
FASA interactive
Ken
Why don't you just use your feared Men in Black to take down Playmates?
When their CEO wakes up with an Axeman cockpit in his bed, he'll think
twice. ;)
Ken'
Michael Kelly
In article <19961202163...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
fasa...@aol.com wrote:
>In article <01bbdc7b$a29b5e80$5660...@kajah.cadvision.com>, "Jayme
>Kinneberg" <ka...@cadvision.com> writes:
>
>>Do not quote me on this but in 1985 fasa bought the rights to those
>>designs. And since that day the right liense has run out. Therefore
>that
>>required fasa to take all the designs off the market.
>>
>>
>
>Again, FASA has had and maintains the rights to use those images. They
>have been removed from the game to avoid continuing to have to defend
>those rights in court and elsewhere. Only the images have been
>removed, the `mechs are still vaild for all forms of play.
Except, of course, any up and coming computer games, right? Hmmm... bit
disappointing that I won't be able to pilot a Marauder or Archer in
Battletech Commander, especially seeing as how they are my all time
favourite 'mechs.
Ah well, at least they're still "valid", but it's poor consolation
to know that FASA won't kick down my door if I still use a Thunderbolt
now and then. ;)
Actually, for me at least, the most annoying thing about losing these
mechs is that I've never even seen any of the Anime that the art came
from.
Mike Kelly.
Scopedog
David Crowe wrote:
>
> Scopedog <sel...@hal-pc.org> wrote:
>
> : I wish I could be one of their neato artists... I can surpass the old
> : stuff easily, but I guess just about anybody can do that... I might be
> : a match for the current direction the art is going, though...(woo,
> : Grieg, woo)...
>
> than just moaning on a newsgroup. (Note to attorneys: I am not in any way
> an employee of FASA.)
>
> --
> David "No Nickname" Crowe No generalization is true
> -not even this one.
--
ATM-09-ST: Scopedog
Jerry Hsiao
fasa...@aol.com wrote:
: Again, FASA has had and maintains the rights to use those images. They
: have been removed from the game to avoid continuing to have to defend
: those rights in court and elsewhere. Only the images have been
: removed, the `mechs are still vaild for all forms of play.
Dang, Tom...I wonder how you and the FIT people will ever get the game out
when it seems like you're answering to _every_ single post regarding the
mechs' images and the Playmates suit.
Regards,
Jerry Hsiao
jhs...@magg.net
Capella Ueber Alles
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
# Why don't you just use your feared Men in Black to take down Playmates?
Because Playmates' MiBs are more numerous.
# When their CEO wakes up with an Axeman cockpit in his bed, he'll think
# twice. ;)
Axe man cockpit? Hell, just leave him a bloody axe! ;)
--Camille.
[disclaimer: THIS IS NOT A THREAT. THIS POST IS INTENDED AS HUMOUR ONLY]
Scopedog
> >stuff easily, but I guess just about anybody can do that... I might be
> >a match for the current direction the art is going, though...(woo,
> >Grieg, woo)...
>
> at www.FASA.com for art submission guidelines.
>
> Tom Dowd
> FASA interactive
--
ATM-09-ST: Scopedog
"Awk okk okk yokk awk yawk okk yokk!"
[We come in peace!]
Jason Nyte
Isn't this particular question getting annoying?
--
From Passage to Dawn by R.A. Salvatore page 62 through the voice of Drizzt
Do'Urden
"...if, as rational beings..., we place our needs and desires above the
needs of our society,...there is no community. I have seen this way of
selfishness. I have seen it fail miserably."
John M. Atkinson
Jason Nyte wrote:
>
> Isn't this particular question getting annoying?
Yes.
>
> --
> From Passage to Dawn by R.A. Salvatore page 62 through the voice of Drizzt
> Do'Urden
> "...if, as rational beings..., we place our needs and desires above the
> needs of our society,...there is no community. I have seen this way of
> selfishness. I have seen it fail miserably."
--
John M. Atkinson
What is the Spirit of the Bayonet?
To Kill, To Kill, to Kill with cold, blue steel!
fasa...@aol.com
In article <581kqf$8...@dopey.magg.net>, Jerry Hsiao <jhs...@magg.net>
writes:
>Dang, Tom...I wonder how you and the FIT people will ever get the game
out
>when it seems like you're answering to _every_ single post regarding the
>mechs' images and the Playmates suit.
I've asked that question myself. :)
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
Ken
On 3 Dec 1996, Capella Ueber Alles wrote:
> Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
> make Ken (ez05...@peseta.ucdavis.edu) say:
>
> # Why don't you just use your feared Men in Black to take down Playmates?
>
> Because Playmates' MiBs are more numerous.
>
Hmmmm...Sam Lewis has a few Savanah Masters in his garage....
> # When their CEO wakes up with an Axeman cockpit in his bed, he'll think
> # twice. ;)
>
> Axe man cockpit? Hell, just leave him a bloody axe! ;)
>
I was making an allusion to the horses head mob(not MoB)-thing.
Ken'
Michael Kelly
In article <32A2F3...@hal-pc.org>,>> : I wish I could be one of their neato artists... I can surpass the
>> : stuff easily, but I guess just about anybody can do that... I
might be
>> : a match for the current direction the art is going, though...(woo,
>> : Grieg, woo)...
>>
>> rather than just moaning on a newsgroup. (Note to attorneys: I am
>> not in any way an employee of FASA.)
>>
>> --
>> David "No Nickname" Crowe No generalization is
>>true
>> -not even this one.
>YOWZAA! I just might...
Please do... examples of how you envision the Thunderbolt, Wolverine and
Archer should look would be my favourite.
(Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
FASA commission artwork to replace the lost designs... for the sake of
the card and computer games at least.)
Mike
Jerry Hsiao
fasa...@aol.com wrote:
: In article <581kqf$8...@dopey.magg.net>, Jerry Hsiao <jhs...@magg.net>
: writes:
: Tom Dowd
: FASA Interactive
Well Tom, here you go...this form letter should at least make things
easier. There are a couple of things you may have to fill in yourself
(e.g. the Playmates suit explanation and resolution), but for the most
part, I think most of the stuff that needs a form letter is included here.
Hope this gives you time to finish the game and post on r.g.f.cyber more
often.
Enjoy.
Jerry Hsiao
jhs...@magg.net
------Begin included form letter--------
Dear
[ ] sir [ ] FASA employee [ ] MW2 player [ ] loyal reader
[ ] madam [ ] FIT employee [ ] GBL player [ ] Camille
[ ] netizen [ ] VWEG employee [ ] Merc player [ ] Jonboy
[ ] lurker [ ] MOB member [ ] rules lawyer [ ] Wordman
[ ] flamer [ ] ex-COB member [ ] cartoon hater [ ] David Henry
[ ] surfer [ ] SR2 customer [ ] Robotech fan [ ] Steel Lynx
[ ] troll [ ] BTech customer [ ] Playmates fan
[ ] addict [ ] ED customer [ ] Tyco fan
Regarding your
[ ] e-mail
[ ] USENET post
[ ] Web page
Where you
[ ] flamed FASA for copying "Robotech" mecha designs
[ ] flamed FASA for copying anime mecha designs
[ ] thought FASA's license for above mech designs expired
[ ] were mistaken about the Playmates vs. FASA lawsuit
[ ] were mistaken about any lawsuit regarding FASA's mech images
[ ] were mistaken about the relationship between FASA Corp,
FASA Interactive Tech., and Virtual World Entertainment
Group
[ ] asked for any downloadable images of FASA art from Shadowrun,
Battletech, Earthdawn, etc.
[ ] asked about using FASA material in a computer program or game
[ ] wanted to know the contact person at FASA
[ ] wanted to know what's going on with Mechwarrior 3
[ ] wanted to know what's going on with the Mechwarrior: Honorbound
[ ] wanted to know if I'm still doing anything with FASA Corp.
[ ] wanted to know why I never post to Shadowrun anymore
[ ] flamed Camille for being psychotic
In reality,
[ ] FASA always licensed these images from the original animators
in Japan
[ ] FASA licensed the mechs before "Robotech" was created
[ ] there was never a suit between FASA and the "Robotech" people
[ ] there was never a settlement
[ ] <add entries for Playmates lawsuit resolution>
[ ] the images were removed to avoid any further lawsuits, but we
still have the right to use them
[ ] FASA Interactive was made by FASA Corporation and Spectrum
Holobyte but is now grouped with Virtual World Entertainment
Group
[ ] FASA Corp and VWEG are two completely separate companies. FASA
Corp owns a part of VWEG, but doesn't affect it's running or
policies
[ ] FASA Interactive has computer rights to most of FASA Corp's
games
[ ] FIT will be releasing a real-time strategy game based on the
Battletech Battle of Coventry. Formerly called Mechwarrior:
Honorbound, it is now called <insert new name>
[ ] FIT will be working with Spectrum Holobyte to make Mechwarrior 3
in the future
[ ] No release dates ever again
[ ] You must put close to the beginning of the title of a document
which includes or references any of FASA copyrights or trademarks
the statement (in all copies):
<Shadowrun, Battletech, Earthdawn, etc.> is a Registered
Trademark of FASA Corporation. Original <SR, BT, ED,
etc.> material Copyright (CURRENT year) by FASA
Corporation. All Rights Reserved. Used without
permission. Any use of FASA Corporation's copyrighted
material or trademarks in this file should not be viewed
as a challenged to those copyrights or trademarks.
[ ] Any use of art work or graphics without written permission is
expressly forbidden. This includes the game's logo
[ ] No money can change hands for any reason, not even "non-profit"
costs, like making someone pay for the costs of xeroxing or
printing
[ ] For Shadowrun, email FASA...@aol.com. For Battletech, email
FASA...@aol.com. For Earthdawn, email FAS...@aol.com. For
all others, email FASA...@aol.com
[ ] I was slowly working on a Shadowrun book about Ehran, Harlequin,
and Frosty
[ ] Working on the FIT game has kept me from doing more
[ ] Back off on Camille since she knows where we work
[ ] For submissions, see www.fasa.com for guidelines
[ ] Leave me alone, I'm playing the game
[ ] No comment
[ ] I can neither confirm nor deny your statement
[ ] I don't know
[ ] Adios!
[ ] Thanks!
[ ] Huh?
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
---------End included form letter-------
fasa...@aol.com
In article <587a9h$m...@dopey.magg.net>, Jerry Hsiao <jhs...@magg.net>
writes:
>------Begin included form letter--------
>
>>>SNIPPED<<<
WOW! I don't know whether to be incredibly flattered...
frightened....or both!
Thanks Jerry! I suspect I will use it often!
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
[minor deletia]
# WOW! I don't know whether to be incredibly flattered...
# frightened....or both!
Be afraid....be very afraid....
# Thanks Jerry! I suspect I will use it often!
The only change I suggest is substituting "MoBster" for "Ex-CoB member".
*shurg*
--Camille.