New Oldest Mahjong Tile?

Chris Schumann

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Jan 19, 2011, 10:07:00 AM1/19/11

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http://www.mindmahjong.com/info/eshowinfo.asp?id=730

The article (posted December 7, 2010) claims that a ceramic mahjong
tile (south wind) was found in a kiln dated to about 1,000 years ago.

It is certainly a ceramic tile that has the ideograph for "south" on
it. I have a few questions though.
- Are there any other tiles? (Something like 7 dots would really help,
IMHO.)
- Is the tile contemporary with the kiln?
- Can ceramics be carbon dated?
- Were the directions used for other purposes during that era?
- What are the other ancient tiles implied in the last sentence?

I'm interested in what you all might have to say on this.

Chris

tsloper

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Jan 20, 2011, 1:41:33 AM1/20/11

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On Jan 19, 7:07 am, Chris Schumann <chris.schum...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.mindmahjong.com/info/eshowinfo.asp?id=730
>
> The article (posted December 7, 2010) claims that a ceramic mahjong
> tile (south wind) was found in a kiln dated to about 1,000 years ago.

Chris,
The article clearly says that although the kiln is 1000 years old, the
tile is from the Qing Dynasty.
The Qing Dynasty ran from 1644-1912. That span of time does not
exceed 367 years before today, and that span of time includes the
period in which our current belief has the origination of mahjong
tiles.
The tile could have been made in the 20th century, based on what it
says in the article.
Tom

Chris Schumann

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Jan 20, 2011, 9:47:55 AM1/20/11

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Thank you much, Tom. I read it too quickly to pick up that detail.

Chris

stanwic...@googlemail.com

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Jan 20, 2011, 1:14:34 PM1/20/11

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> Chris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There is an implicit assumption in the message at the link provided.
It says the object is a *mahjong* tile. That has yet to be
established. I would say that you are correct Chris in your original
questions, that actually would shed light on that assumption.

I am a little concerned with the use of the word 'ancient'. It seems
to suggest a longer time ago than the Qing Dynasty and so I wondered
whether the Qing was a misspelling for a much earlier Dynasty?

Regards
Michael Stanwick

Edwin Phua

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Jan 21, 2011, 5:21:03 AM1/21/11

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On Jan 21, 2:14 am, "mstanw...@talktalk.net"

> Michael Stanwick- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

According to the original Chinese article (http://www.chinamajiang.com/
info/showinfo.asp?id=573), it is indeed the Qing Dynasty (清代).

The relevant text: 昨天，在醴陵市枫林市乡唐家坳村李家弄，记者见到了一张清代麻将牌。这张麻将牌是"南风"，为瓷质，大小与现在
的麻将相似，呈碧绿色，上面的"南"字呈蓝色。根据麻将牌的色泽、质地判断，胡建民认为其年代为清早期，这也是湖南首次发现古代麻将。

If I am reading it correctly, Hu Jianjun, the archeology team leader,
is of the opinion that the tile originates from the early part of the
Qing Dynasty, based on the analysis of the tile colour and texture(?).

Best regards,
Edwin Phua

stanwic...@googlemail.com

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Jan 24, 2011, 3:45:04 PM1/24/11

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> Edwin Phua- Hide quoted text -

Does it mention the method of analysis?

Edwin Phua

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Jan 27, 2011, 11:16:44 PM1/27/11

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On Jan 25, 4:45 am, "mstanw...@talktalk.net"

> Does it mention the method of analysis?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

No, the method of analysis is not mentioned at all. Perhaps my
translation is a little off. The sentence (this is the third and last
in the short passage given above) literally translated: "Based on the
tile's colour, (and) texture, Hu Jianjun thinks that the period (of
the tile) is the Qing Dynasty's early period; this would be Hunan's
first discovery of archaic mahjong."

Best regards,
Edwin