"Mahjong has a THEME? What is it?"
That was posted on Dec. 21, 2007. No discussion ensued.
Does that mean no one thought that the game had a theme? Or is the
topic considered inappropriate for discussion?
It seems strange. Tien-Gow (Heaven-Nine) has a theme. It's game of
pips on tiles. The tiles represent Civilian and the Military. There is
more to it of course. The symbols include Heaven, Earth, Man and a
Goose at least.
Dau-Hu (Fighting-Tiger) had a theme. The difference between a man and
a woman are two pearls. (That is a simplified interpretation).
As up to the end of December, 2007, Mah-Jong is theme-less, just a
bunch Cash, exactly as Himly and Wilkinson coined it long ago.
To be continued....
+++++++++
Cheers....al
Nov 22 2007, 5:23 pm, al <a...@ntl.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> NAQ #4 : Never Asked Question:
> Is Mahjong an Invention? Why not?
> Mahjong is believed to be a product of evolution from other game(s).
> But who is to say that mahjong was not an invention?
> By evolution, it's meant that mahjong is the end result of progressive
> stages of change from early games.
Insufficient evidence. No explanation for the Directions and Seasons
or ZFB. Where were the predecessors of ESWN and ZFB?
> By invention, it's meant that mahjong is a product of innovation, from
> applying new ideas to existing knowledge.
>
Every symbol in Mah-Jong is new: its elegant construction, its
physical features and symbolic contents. In addition, the simplicity
of its design, the rules and method of play place the game a world
apart from paper cards.
Tien-Gow and dice are closer relatives to Mah-Jong. They belong to the
"Bones" family at least
> By definition, evolution is the "gradual development of something into
> a more complex or better form"; or it could be a "pattern formed by a
> series of movements".
>
> By definition, invention is "a thing that somebody has created
> especially a device or process"; or it's "the creation of something
> new". Inventions today have legal rights of 'intellectual property'
> which is defined as a manifestation of original thought.
>
> Is mahjong the result of evolution? Or is it a product of invention?
This remains an unanswered question.
It is now an unworthy question for discussion.
+++++++++
> Paper was invented about a 1000 years before the middle age. Expert
> anthropologists and historians favor China as the place of origin of
> playing cards. The simple reason is based on the fact that cards are
> made of paper.
>
> By the same line of logic, I propose Mahjong was invented and not
> evolved from [paper] playing cards. The simple fact is that bones and bamboo
> or wood were there long before paper. It was by far easier to carve or
> engrave a block of wood, bamboo or bone than to invent paper, draw the
> design with a needle-point pen and print the cards.
>
Isn't it?
> An evidential example is the dice. Engraving a dice is like engraving
> a mahjong tile. Dice came long before [paper] playing cards. By the same
> reasoning, I say mahjong came before paper cards.
>
That is a reasonable assertion: bone product first; paper product
later.
> Therefore, mahjong or Mah-Jongg was an invention via correlative
> reasoning which some historians and anthropologists use.
>
> As a reminder, time of discovery is not necessarily the age of an
> artifact.
The age of diamond is a good example. The type of stone is by far
older than 5000 years although the first diamond was discovered 5000
years ago.
A parallel situation is the case with Mah-Jong. Again, discussion
stopped.
++++++++++
Review to be continued...
Cheers.....al
The post continues:
EP:
“>At least, the cash suits are related, and easier
> to accept that these suits were preserved from some source because
> such a claim is more parsimonious, without much evidence to the
> contrary.”
--------------------------
Two “cash” suits are derived and the derivation was based on false
assumptions. Suo3 is not a string of anything. Its subtle meaning was
unrecognized and mistaken. Likewise “wan” has various meanings by
context. It was misused as a finite number. Any relationship among the
3 suits is unreal. Counting coins which has value of a fraction of a
cent in quantities of ten-thousand is plain fiction or fabrication.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
The following is another quote from a previous post.
These questions were raised.
EP:
“The numbers 2 and 3 are hardly special, considering these are small
integers that are non-divisible, and many games utilise small units of
2 and 3 as well. For example, gin rummy utilises units of 3 and 4
(somewhat like mahjong), and has a draw and discard mechanism. Besides
2 and 3, what really links the I-Ching to mahjong? There are no direct
links (trigram to particular sequence or combination?). Why is the
combination 2-3-3 or 2-3-3-3? Why not more sets of 3 or more pairs in
the hand?”
------------------------
Good question…
2 and 3 are simple ordinary numbers. But many if not most, games have
4-card tricks.
In addition, a pair of yin and yang according to Chinese Taoism
started the universe from Nothing to Something or Everything through
the 3-some combination of 2 Lines. Eight of the 3-line diagrams
represent Heaven, Earth, Lake, Mountain, Fire, Water,Thunder, and
Wind. In terms of ancient cosmology, that was everything.
That, in my view, is the significance of the two simple indivisible
digits.
There is a possible link to I-Ching, in conjunction with a change/
exchange mechanism.
+++++++++++++++
Again, another quote:
EP:
“It is difficult to directly link the I-Ching to mahjong, and any
connections seem tenuous, since there isn't really much consistency
throughout the game, implying such connections may be coincidental
rather than deliberate.”
------------------------
On the contrary, if one considers the cosmological aspects of Taoism
such as the Seasons, the Directions and the Colors red, green and
white and how they correspond with the CHANGES in planet movements
which is believed to have influence on life on earth, then one would
appreciate the possible link to Mah-Jong game design.
Simplicity, variability and consistency form the foundation of I-
Ching. Those same principles are in the design of the Mah-Jong game.
Eleven words ESWN, SSAW (4 seasons) and ZFB with colors indicate
cosmological correspondence. Three symbols (circle, bamboo and myriad)
signify the application of cosmology to life for many.
++++++++++++++
Final quote:
“I also agree with Dan's response about the pair. It does not show
yin-
yang (which are states in opposition and complementation, and are NOT
identical).”
------------------
An explanation here is needed. Yin and yang are in a state of flux. As
illustrated in line form, yin and yang can change into 4 forms. The 4
forms are yin-yang, yin-yin, yang-yin and yang-yang. In other words,
yin-yang can be identical. Other terms for identical and un-identical
pairs are young yin, old yin, young yang and old yang. (See Living I-
Ching.)
++++++++++++++++++
Worthwhile review….
Cheers….al
al:
The relationship was forged and forced. They can not relate to the
game as a whole and particularly not to the Wind / Direction, Seasons
and ZFB. The basic idea of Cash is irrelevant to the game. Hence the
suits relationship is also irrelevant. Parsimony without contrary
evidence until now. And contrary evidence is unwelcome.
>
> --------------------------
As was explained:
al:
> Two “cash” suits are derived and the derivation was based on false
> assumptions. Suo3 is not a string of anything. Its subtle meaning was
> unrecognized and mistaken. Likewise “wan” has various meanings by
> context. It was misused as a finite number. Any relationship among the
> 3 suits is unreal. [Grouping} coins which has value of a fraction of a
> cent [with] quantities of ten-thousand is [also unreal].
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The following is another quote from a previous post.
> These questions were raised.
> EP:
> “The numbers 2 and 3 are hardly special, considering these are small
> integers that are non-divisible, and many games utilise small units of
> 2 and 3 as well. For example, gin rummy utilises units of 3 and 4
al:
Gin rummy can have up to 8 in sequence. Trigram is not a concept in
gin rummy.
Here a simple number 3 means an underlying concept in Mah-Jong. Also,
if I remember it right, gin rummy does not require a pair for a
winning hand. In Mah-Jong, a pair is a essential.
> [gin rummy] (somewhat like mahjong), and has a draw and discard mechanism.
> Besides 2 and 3, what really links the I-Ching to mahjong?
al:
The links to I-Ching are the links among the cosmological aspects of
Taoism which include the Phases (Elements), Seasons, Directions,
Colors and the Planets. Cosmological aspects of Taoism applied in
astrology. geomancy and divination.
The key suit in Mah-Jong consists of Directions. Changes in ESWN have
corresponding changes in all aspects of the cosmos. The links are far
reaching.
E.P.:
> There are no direct
> links (trigram to particular sequence or combination?).
al:
But why is a direct link to a particular sequence or combination is
necessary?
By Fu Xi, the Bagua of 8 trigrams represent everything in the
universe.
My quick calculation gives 21 sequences of 3cards and 48 sets of 3 of
a kind.
Is matching a trigram with a sequence is necessary condition for a
link?
The essence of a trigram is its 3 lines. The mutation of the 3 lines
results in everything in the universe. Mutation or change is the
nature of the it all.
E.P.:
> Why is the
> combination 2-3-3 or 2-3-3-3? Why not more sets of 3 or more pairs in
> the hand?”
One pair of yin-yang from Tai-Chi is the fundamental concept of Taoism
and creation of the universe. More pairs would not be yin-yang of
Taoism.
More sets of 3's require more tiles and take loner to play a hand. A
hexagram is made up of 2 trigrams.
------------------------
But that was a reasonaly
al:
> Good question…
> 2 and 3 are simple ordinary numbers. But many if not most, games have
> 4-card tricks.
> In addition, a pair of yin and yang according to Chinese Taoism
> started the universe from Nothing to Something or Everything through
> the 3-some combination of 2 Lines. Eight of the 3-line diagrams
> represent Heaven, Earth, Lake, Mountain, Fire, Water,Thunder, and
> Wind. In terms of ancient cosmology, that was everything.
> That, in my view, is the significance of the two simple indivisible
> digits.
>
al:
> There is a possible link to I-Ching, in conjunction with a change/
> exchange mechanism.
> +++++++++++++++
> Again, another quote:
> EP:
> “It is difficult to directly link the I-Ching to mahjong, and any
> connections seem tenuous, since there isn't really much consistency
> throughout the game, implying such connections may be coincidental
> rather than deliberate.”
------------------------
al:
> On the contrary, if one considers the cosmological aspects of Taoism
> such as the Seasons, the Directions and the Colors red, green and
> white and how they correspond with the CHANGES in planet movements
> which is believed to have influence on life on earth, then one would
> appreciate the possible link to Mah-Jong game design.
>
al:
> Simplicity, variability and consistency form the foundation of I-
> Ching. Those same principles are in the design of the Mah-Jong game.
>
al:
> Eleven words ESWN, SSAW (4 seasons) and ZFB with colors indicate
> cosmological correspondence. Three symbols (circle, bamboo and myriad)
> signify the application of cosmology to life for many.
> ++++++++++++++
> Final quote:
E.P.:
> “I also agree with Dan's response about the pair. It does not show
> yin-
> yang (which are states in opposition and complementation, and are NOT
> identical).”
> ------------------
al:
> An explanation here is needed. Yin and yang are in a state of flux. As
> illustrated in line form, yin and yang can change into 4 forms. The 4
> forms are yin-yang, yin-yin, yang-yin and yang-yang. In other words,
2 to the power 2. Binary math is in Mah-Jong scoring.
> yin-yang can be identical. Other terms for identical and un-identical
> pairs are young yin, old yin, young yang and old yang. (See Living I-
> Ching.)
This flux state is a concept easily missed.
I read this reference more than once lately. Readers quoted in their
posts. It prompted at least this brief comment for now.
The quote was "hit and go", attributed to Wilkinson, as translation
for "Zhong Fa".
What does hat mean? Hit what ? Go where?
Was that the special name for his own game ?
Anybody has anything to add? It's meaningless to me.
++++++++++++++
Cheers....al
I searched there.
Is that Wilkinson's reference , to archery?
I find it hard to see any relation between archery and Cash and String
of Cash,
if one-Cash was not a target board.
"Hundred shots; hundred hits" does not apply unless all the concentric
circle were targets!
So far among the various posts / pages I read., all literal
translations missed the intended target. Zhong Fa and Bai are symbols
and in color. In MJ symbolism, colors have special meanings in
context. One set of meaning is "Man Earth Heaven" which in turn could
represent the universe.
Then I would say, "hit and go" is a no-no.
No answer yet.
> Did Ma Diao have more relevance with actual symbols like TAIJI diagram
> and "Grand Ultimate" , "Guest with missing teeth" and Quo in earlier time?
> Obviously, these I-Ching symbols have lost their meaning in Pan's
> manual and in Lo's translation. Did the same I-Ching symbols serve
> some useful purpose long ago?
Good questions for scholars and historians, but nothing being
discussed.
>
> [..][..]
> > From earlier discussion, the best information on suo3 (索) has been
> > typically as follows. [Thanks to Julian].
> > [..] according to [dictionar]
> > suo3 (索) has a wide range of meanings, the main ones being (from
> > CEDICT)
>
> > / to search / to demand / o ask / to exact / large rope / isolated /
That definition is potentially purposeful. I have yet to hear a
response to it one way or another, except one, "So what".
> [..]
> I know of...
> > No scholar or historian has ever related suo3 (索) to the meaning of
> > [asking, demanding, searching or exacting].
>
> So far I have not heard of any response to the above.
> Yet...> [..] Why was the “wide range of meanings” ignored?
>
> >[..]
> Divination is n exercise that search, and ecact answers to thousands
> of questions for tens of thousands of people through the ages.
The link below shows divination evidence.
>
> >http://www.taopage.org/iching/iching_symbols.html
>
> > ++++++++
> > 800 bamboo strips with recorded Chinese characters discovered in a
> > tomb dating back to the fourth century B.C.
Bamboo has longer history than string.
>
> http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/02.22/photos/07-chinese1-300.jpg
>
> > [..]. Bamboo symbol in mahjong could well be a
> > metaphor for written divination answers.
It would have served a purpose more than a string.
> [..]
Cheers....al
This is a new item in review. Make your comment if you want.
For reference, I quote from an earlier post, dated Jan. 17, 2001.
> In finding the true origin of mahjong, you might be luckier than
> Millington and many other authors. Today, you can find most evidences
> you want that are in writing. However, in the determination of the
> origin of (all) mahjong, this doesn't mean you can ignore any
> information that was not documented, and any information that is not
> even known to you.
There is truth to that statement, I think.
The trouble seems though, unless it is written or documented by one of
the dead authors, it is not even considered "information".
Likewise, anything not "known", to the few who are influential in the
game, is not "information" either.
And if your finding contradicts with the established doctrine, it will
not be worthy information.
Yet it is obviously to me. The reason there is no answer to the
question of Mahjong origin is because of the fact that information
unknown / unwritten is still out there.
++++++++++
Cheers....al
Something was added below. I just reviewed the subject in the link. It
has nothing new other than interpretations of Wilinson's mistaken
inpretation. Confusion on top of confusion is the result, as I see it.
> > ++++++++++++++
> > Cheers....al
>
> Learn to use
search.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.mahjong/browse_frm/
thread/62...
Thanks...
From your reply, I get the impression you are satisfied and in
agreement with the "hit and go" of Wilkinson. How does that notion
relate with mahjong?
As I asked previously, "hit what go where"? There are 4 directions
and lots cash.
++++++++++++++
Cheers....al
The more significant characteristics of 中发白 are the colors. 中 is red;
发 is green; 白 is white. In Chinese cosmology. Red is Summer; Green is
Spring; White is Autumn. 中发白 is summer-spring-autumn which is in the
wrong order in terms of the seasons and winds, The proper sequence
should have been 发中白 and NOT 中发白.
发 means sprouting, growth in the spring. 中 means warmth in summer and
maturing strong. 白 is aging gray. Proper correspondence of seasons
with colors calls for 发-中-白. A table of correspondence of cosmology
aspects of Daoism has been given in a related post.
>
> [..]
中发白 is a mistaken sequence. Summer does noes not come before Spring.
And since Spring comes before Summer, also life begins from sprouting
to maturity and into old age, 发中白 is the proper sequence. Furthermore,
白 is an integral stage of the process.
发中白 is the process of life [of ten-thousand-things]. Any suggestion
for interpretation without all 3 words as a group is a sign of
ignorance of Daoism.
+++++++++++++++++
P.S. Fa is green; not gold. Gold is symbol for riches; not green.
++++++++++
Cheers....al
A quote from Dec.20, 2002, on the question of name of the game M?J?
+++++++++++++++++
Quote:
"Tom Sloper" <toms...@sloperama.com> wrote in message
<news:aLsM9.398414$%m4.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net>...
> From: thierry.depau...@freesbee.fr (Thierry Depaulis)
> >why do the Japanese pronounce these 'kanji'
> >-- which normally are pronounced <ma que> in Mandarin -- 'maajan'?
> And why do the Chinese now pronounce them "ma jong" when referring to the
> game?
Some years ago a Chinese lady told me the current Chinese name for
mahjong was 'ma jiang' (which indeed sounds a little like our
'mahjong') because they had become aware of 'mahjong' being a more
widespread name for their game. She told me it was a "recent" change
from 'ma que'.
Some Chinese dictionaries seem to agree...
But I was surprised to note that some early 1920's authors who had an
obvious knowledge of Chinese called the game 'machang' or 'machiang'.
Two French-speaking authors, for instance, one being Chinese, in an
article published in Peking in 1921, the other one living in Saigon,
spelled the game 'matchang' in French (while they used the characters
for 'ma que'!).
Maybe the game was also called like this as early as 1920. The
French-speaking Chinese (K.T. Liou) said it was an alternative
pronounciation from Shanghai. I assume this pronounciation later
became more "standard" in China and was accordingly written with the
characters 'ma jiang' (with the 'jiang' character taken from the name
of the "general" in Chinese chess).
This would explain why the the Japanese say 'maajan'...
Just a theory of mine.
Thierry
Unquote. ++++++++++++++++
It is interesting to note that this exact topic relates to a recent
hypothesis posted and is under discussion.
+++++++
Cheers...al
Mahjong is a game of CHANGES.
The concept of change permeates through the game. The Winds change to
mark the progress of time. Each wind corresponds with one season in a
year. Mahjong Players’ positions change only virtually within each
seasonal time frame.
Mahjong players make changes to their 13 tiles to configure a winning
hand which requires a definite pattern, such as 2+3+3+3+3 in 14 cards.
The game is is a metaphor for a universe in cyclical changes. As the
earth revolves around the sun counterclockwise by nature, the seasons
change from spring to summer to autumn and to winter; the winds change
from east to south to west and to north accordingly.
How that explains the counterclockwise rotation, you may ask. Well, it
is necessary to separate compass directions from wind directions. In
Mahjong the compass directions mark the relative positions of players
through out the game. Compass directions are constant. However, wind
directions change with seasons and mark the progression of time. ESWN
Winds change with the four seasons; the seasons change with each
revolution of the earth along its orbit counterclockwise around the
sun. Note that it is the earth’s movement with its tilted axis that
dictates the change of seasons which in turn control the winds. Hence
the direction of wind movement (East-South-West-North) follows the
earth itself.
When the earth revolves counterclockwise, it changes the seasons CCW
and it changes the winds counterclockwise. Each season is associated
with and corresponding to a WIND.
Caution: East, South, West and North are East Wind, South Wind, West
Wind and North Wind and they are NOT east-direction, south-direction,
west-direction, North-direction. Seasonal winds are not compass
directions. That is the conceptual distinction has to be made to
eradicate the seeming contradiction in Mahjong. There is no
contradiction by following the earth’s revolution as shown by the link
below.
http://www.mrdowling.com/images/601seasons.jpg
To sum it up, the EARTH revolves around the sun counterclockwise; the
SEASONS (Spring-Summer- Autumn-Winter) change counterclockwise; the
WINDS of the four seasons CHANGE likewise in the order of East-South-
West-North, correspondingly, COUNTERCLOCKWISE.
++++++++++++++
Allan Lee
Nov. 21, 2008