The Baseball Puzzle.
Neil Cerutti
solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before I give
up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes. No
spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even when
I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was supposed
to be. If any readers here have not solved the puzzle, feel free
to take a guess at the solution after reading this transcript.
All the available clues are provided.
>d
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly-angled walls and passages in all
direction. The walls are made of some glassy substance. A
marble stairway leads upward.
Your sword is glowing a with a faint blue glow.
Ugh! This looks like a maze. Why is my sword glowing? Is there
danger? I'm struck by the vagueness of the description, here.
Bad horror novels use the same technique. A strange sound! An
indescribable gibberish!
Dave's been careful to provide no real information.
Well, not quite. He did draw attention to the walls in a couple
of way.
>examine walls
I don't know the word "walls".
>examine glass
I don't see a glass here!
Guess not. Might as well wander in a random direction. And by
random, I mean "west".
>w
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly-angled walls and passages in all
directions. The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is
dark.
Your sword is no longer glowing.
Hmm. I guess the danger is passed.
So, have you solved it yet? I assume all the AMERICANS are
nodding sagely to themselves, and composing competitive a
walkthroughs.
And now, there's a window in
the... er... floor. I'll forgive the ungrammatical use of a
non-restrictive clause without a comma. Actually, I didn't. David
Lebling has not been pedantic enough, here. And the worst part
is, I'm destined to read that particular error quite a few times.
>examine window
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is
dark.
Very helpful that. I was hoping for additional information, but
I got so much more. In what way is it a window? I've seen a lot
of windows, and this thing in the floor doesn't have any of their
properties, as far as I can tell.
>e
There's no way to go in that direction.
I guess "all directions" is a lie. At least the original "maze of
twisty little passages" didn't lie.
>open window
You must tell me how to do that to a diamond shaped window.
Mark off another property of windows that this "window" doesn't
have. I'll have to try something I hate; guessing verbs.
>look through window
On the floor is a very small diamond-shaped window that is
dark.
Hooookay! Another random direction, I guess. I'm not mapping yet,
by the way. (Attempts at mapping reveal only that there aren't
very many rooms, and that the passages between shift randomly)
>n
There's no way to go in that direction.
Is it solved yet?
Incidentally, I'd like to congratulate Dave for another snow job
well done, here. This puzzle would have been impossible if he'd
used the default, "You can't go that way." This new, nuanced
message is bound to hold the key to a solution.
>w
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly-angled walls and passages in all
direction. The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is
dark.
>s
There's no way to go in that direction.
Hmm. The walls are oddly-angled, so I guess I'll try going
kitty-corner. I don't know why I didn't think of it before.
>nw
There's no way to go in that direction.
Hmph.
>se
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly-angled walls and passages in all
direction. The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is
flickering dimly.
A long wooden club lies on the ground near the diamond-shaped
window. The club is curiously burned at the thick end.
>examine club
The words "Babe Flathead" are burned into the wood.
I guess this is where an AMERICAN gets a huge advantage. I
immediately think "a baseball bat."
>swing bat
You don't have the wooden club.
>take it. swing it
The window is part of the floor.
You don't have the diamond shaped window.
That's an interesting limitation of the Zilch parser I didn't
know. Cool!
>take bat
Taken.
>swing it
Woosh!
Strike one?
Er... OK, so, is the puzzle solved yet? Perhaps the diamond
shaped windows... ah! So they're Baseball Diamonds, like in The
Great Muppet Caper. Sadly, that revelation does not help.
I wonder what else I can do with the bat?
>hit window with bat
I've known strange people, but fighting a diamond shaped
window?
>hit glass wall with bat
You can't see any glass wall here!
Nope! No glass walls here! Well, I didn't honestly think it would
work.
Hmmm... I got the baseball bat. Yay for me! And, um... my sword
stopped glowing. I declare this puzzle solved, and a great one
it was, too.
This puzzle lacks everything I look for in a puzzle.
1. Provide Good Clues. The only clues, as I define them, are the
baseball bat, and the diamond-shaped windows. I successfully
divined that baseball had something to do with this maze.
2. Reward Good Wrong Guesses. This puzzle is structured so that
you pretty much can't even make guesses. Virtually nothing you
can do elicits anything other than a default response except for
solving the puzzle.
3. Indicate Incremental Progress. Even the hardest puzzle can be
fun, if only you get little grains of progress as you move along.
The Babel Fish is a good example of this sort of design. Lucian
Smiths's language puzzle, from The Edifice is another one. The
best *this* puzzle can do is, "Woosh!"
4. Make Some Sense, Especially After The Fact. I'd love to hear
Mr. Lebling explain the following: The glowing sword; the random
passages; the flickering/non-flickering, tiny, diamond-shaped,
floor "windows"; Why are there frickin' windows in a maze
composed of glass? The oddly-angled walls. Moreover, what was
this room used for? Is it one of the fabled Noober Flathead Magic
Passtime Locks?
5. Provide Some Motivation. It starts of pretty good. It appeared
to be a maze, so I went looking for the exit. After dropping
four items, this motivation evaporates. The only motivation left
is the barely-there motivation of trying to understand something
that I don't.
I must agree with Mr. "Stiffy" Thornton. This is a sucky
puzzle.
So, did you solve it yet?
--
Neil Cerutti
Sam Carmean
<hor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I haven't played in quite a while, so I don't really remember the
> solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before I give
> up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes. No
> spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even when
> I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was supposed
> to be. If any readers here have not solved the puzzle, feel free
> to take a guess at the solution after reading this transcript.
> All the available clues are provided.
>
<snip transcript>
> I must agree with Mr. "Stiffy" Thornton. This is a sucky
> puzzle.
>
> So, did you solve it yet?
Although this does nothing to improve the puzzle for non-Americans and
not-baseball fans, a key piece of useful knowledge is that left-handed
pitchers are nicknamed "southpaws" (because a baseball diamond is
customarily laid out so that the afternoon sun won't be in a batter's
eyes). Combined with the knowledge that the bases are circled
counterclockwise, this makes the puzzle easy to understand and
remember, without actually making it any less obscure at the outset.
Also, for what it's worth, your incremental progress circling the bases
is rewarded by windows that glow progressively brighter. That's at
least five percent of what I look for in a good puzzle, right there.
Neil Cerutti
That's a vital bit of baseball lore I did not know. Thanks! I
still don't see how to guess that you need to play a game of
imaginary baseball with yourself, but that's just my mental
block. Apparently some other players make the leap right away.
> Also, for what it's worth, your incremental progress circling
> the bases is rewarded by windows that glow progressively
> brighter. That's at least five percent of what I look for in a
> good puzzle, right there.
I vaguely remembered that, but couldn't get it to happen. Is
swinging the bat a prerequisite to the solution? Because the
window doesn't grow brighter when I "Woosh!"
--
Neil Cerutti
Default User
[snip trial]
> So, did you solve it yet?
I fired it up yesterday afternoon. This what I did then, based on my
knowledge of solving it before.
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly angled walls and passages in all directions.
The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is flickering
dimly.
A long wooden club lies on the ground near the diamond-shaped window.
The club is curiously burned at the thick end.
>get all
wooden club: Taken.
>l at club
The words "Babe Flathead" are burned into the wood.
>swing club
Whoosh!
Once the intuitive leap to baseball and running the bases is made, then
a pattern needs to be developed.
This is from the official rules of Major League Baseball:
"It is desirable that the line from home base through the pitchers
plate to second base shall run East-Northeast."
The nearest major direction to that is East, so we'll assume that is
the starting direction. That would make the run to First SE, Second NE,
Third NW, and Home SW.
>se
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly angled walls and passages in all directions.
The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is dimly
glowing.
>ne
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly angled walls and passages in all directions.
The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is glowing.
>nw
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly angled walls and passages in all directions.
The walls are made of some glassy substance.
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is glowing
brightly.
>sw
You hear a strange rusty squeal echoing in the distance.
Oddly-angled Room
On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is glowing
serenely.
>s
Oddly-angled Room
This is a room with oddly angled walls and passages in all directions.
Thewalls are made of some glassy substance.
A marble stairway leads upward. The floor has swung down at the end of
thestairway to reveal a secret passage leading down into unrelieved
darkness.
Your sword is glowing with a faint blue glow.
Yay. It would be great if that's how I'd solved it back 15 years ago,
but no. I'll go over that in a separate message, as this one is already
pretty long.
Brian
--
In the air to left field, and Pujols has given St. Louis the lead! A
dramatic, towering, three-run home run! Stunned in disbelief here in
Houston. How about Albert Pujols! - Thom Brennaman, Fox television
Emily Short
Default User wrote:
> This is from the official rules of Major League Baseball:
>
> "It is desirable that the line from home base through the pitchers
> plate to second base shall run East-Northeast."
>
> The nearest major direction to that is East, so we'll assume that is
> the starting direction. That would make the run to First SE, Second NE,
> Third NW, and Home SW.
Wow, this is even less fair than I remembered. It's possible to be
reasonably fond of baseball and familiar with the rules without ever
knowing the associated compass directions.
Default User
> I haven't played in quite a while, so I don't really remember the
> solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before I give
> up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes. No
> spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even when
> I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was supposed
> to be. If any readers here have not solved the puzzle, feel free
> to take a guess at the solution after reading this transcript.
> All the available clues are provided.
Here is an approximation to how I solved it at the time.
After finding the club, the "Babe Flathead" inscription indicated it
was a bat. Giving it a swing produced the "whoosh", which was
encouraging. Then the description of the floor items gave an idea that
they might be bases. Without the club, that wouldn't have happened.
The problem was which direction to set out. Frankly, that was solved by
trial and error, just running CCW patterns starting off in different
initial directions. I tried a number of different things, circling
twice, stopping and starting again when I got one of the windows to
change color, that sort of thing.
It's been something like 20 years (I think I said 15 elsewhere) since I
first solved it, so things are a bit hazy. Subsequent replays for many
years used similar trial and error, until years ago someone told me
that ballparks are supposed to be aligned a certain way, and I checked
the official rules.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
Neil Cerutti
> Neil Cerutti wrote:
>> I haven't played in quite a while, so I don't really remember
>> the solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before
>> I give up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes.
>> No spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even
>> when I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was
>> supposed to be. If any readers here have not solved the
>> puzzle, feel free to take a guess at the solution after
>> reading this transcript. All the available clues are provided.
>
> Here is an approximation to how I solved it at the time.
>
> After finding the club, the "Babe Flathead" inscription
> indicated it was a bat. Giving it a swing produced the
> "whoosh", which was encouraging. Then the description of the
> floor items gave an idea that they might be bases. Without the
> club, that wouldn't have happened.
It's an odd case, here. The only thing about the floor windows
that's like a base is that they are on the ground. Everything
else is wrong: the shape, the size, and the substance. So casual
knowledge of baseball actually hurts your chances. At the very
least, I'd expect home plate to be shaped differently from the
other bases.
> The problem was which direction to set out. Frankly, that was
> solved by trial and error, just running CCW patterns starting
> off in different initial directions. I tried a number of
> different things, circling twice, stopping and starting again
> when I got one of the windows to change color, that sort of
> thing.
>
> It's been something like 20 years (I think I said 15 elsewhere)
> since I first solved it, so things are a bit hazy. Subsequent
> replays for many years used similar trial and error, until
> years ago someone told me that ballparks are supposed to be
> aligned a certain way, and I checked the official rules.
Can you solve the maze without swinging the bat?
--
Neil Cerutti
Reiko
glowing...and the walls you can't see...and...yeah.
Neil Cerutti
> I still want to know what's with the glowing sword that stops
> glowing...and the walls you can't see...and...yeah.
My guess is that the sword is glowing in reponse to the creature
dwelling underneath the marble staircase. I can't clearly
remember, but think it's mean to be a clue that you can go
somewhere interesting from there.
The walls and general vagueness of the proceedings is, I expect a
result of a rushed, shallow implementation. I can't think of a
more compelling reason for Lebling to want to dissown the whole
affair than it having been hastily thrown together.
--
Neil Cerutti
Default User
Heh. As I explained elsewhere, I didn't make that brilliant connection
at the time. Of course, at the time I didn't have the web to look up
the rules of baseball. I had to futz around trying stuff.
Matthew Russotto
>solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before I give
>up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes. No
>spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even when
>I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was supposed
>to be. If any readers here have not solved the puzzle, feel free
>to take a guess at the solution after reading this transcript.
>All the available clues are provided.
There may be SPOILERS below:
OK, it's been years for me also. I got to the bat and decided to try
to run the bases -- once I knew it was baseball, I figure the
diamond-shaped windows are bases. Based on the "southpaw" remarks in
the newsgroup (which hints that a left-handed pitcher's left arm faces
south), I tried "se, ne, sw, nw".
SE got me "On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is
dimly glowing." So far, so good.
NE got me
"On the floor is a very small diamond shaped window which is glowing"
Even better!
SW got me back to the base of the stairs with the dimly glowing
sword. DOH.
After thrashing around a bit, the Wizard came and told me "Fool!
You'll never get past second base at this rate!".
So I looked at my drawing and realized that it should be SE, NE, NW, SW
But now all I get is dim flickers.
I thrashed around some more and got the right start point and
sequence. After running the bases "You hear a strange rusty squeal
echoing in the distance" and a window "glowing serenely". Going north
brings me to the base of the stairs, where a new passageway down is
open. Down there is Cerberus (Kerberos), which explains the glowing
sword.
Making the puzzle baseball was hard enough, but expecting you to know
which compass directions to run the bases? Especially since the map
doesn't make a lot of sense? Bah.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.
Default User
Signs Point To Yes.
I just gave it a try, and you don't even need to pick up the bat.
terr...@terrencevak.net
talking about?
Terrence
Poster
> I haven't played in quite a while, so I don't really remember the
> solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before I give
> up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes. No
> spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even when
> I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was supposed
> to be. If any readers here have not solved the puzzle, feel free
> to take a guess at the solution after reading this transcript.
> All the available clues are provided.
>
> >d
> Oddly-angled Room
> This is a room with oddly-angled walls and passages in all
> direction. The walls are made of some glassy substance. A
> marble stairway leads upward.
> Your sword is glowing a with a faint blue glow.
If nothing else, the puzzle has succeeded in generating flames twenty
years after its creation. It endures, which is more than can be said for
most things we come across.
-- Poster
www.intaligo.com Building, INFORM, Seasons (upcoming!)
Richard Bos
> On 2006-09-15, Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > After finding the club, the "Babe Flathead" inscription
> > indicated it was a bat. Giving it a swing produced the
> > "whoosh", which was encouraging. Then the description of the
> > floor items gave an idea that they might be bases. Without the
> > club, that wouldn't have happened.
>
> It's an odd case, here. The only thing about the floor windows
> that's like a base is that they are on the ground. Everything
> else is wrong: the shape, the size, and the substance. So casual
> knowledge of baseball actually hurts your chances. At the very
> least, I'd expect home plate to be shaped differently from the
> other bases.
Also, in baseball, "diamond" is not the name for a base but for the
entire central playing field. Does "run around diamond" work? Does it
even give a useful message? Nah.
> > It's been something like 20 years (I think I said 15 elsewhere)
> > since I first solved it, so things are a bit hazy. Subsequent
> > replays for many years used similar trial and error, until
> > years ago someone told me that ballparks are supposed to be
> > aligned a certain way, and I checked the official rules.
It would never even have occurred to me, and there would have been
nobody to tell me in this country.
> Can you solve the maze without swinging the bat?
Yes.
Richard
Matthew Russotto
Poster <poster!nospam!@aurora.cotse.net> wrote:
>
>If nothing else, the puzzle has succeeded in generating flames twenty
>years after its creation. It endures, which is more than can be said for
>most things we come across.
So has the Holocaust, and that doesn't improve it any.
(OK, now I've compared the baseball puzzle to genocide. Where's my
Mike Godwin Internet Hyperbole Award?)
Default User
> OK, you guys've piqued my curiosity; which game are you guys
> talking about?
Zork II.
Default User
>
> Default User wrote:
> > The nearest major direction to that is East, so we'll assume that is
> > the starting direction. That would make the run to First SE, Second
> > NE, Third NW, and Home SW.
>
> Wow, this is even less fair than I remembered. It's possible to be
> reasonably fond of baseball and familiar with the rules without ever
> knowing the associated compass directions.
It should be pointed that the MLB rule just captures what was
traditional, that the batter shouldn't be looking into the sun when
baseballs are flying in at him at 90 MPH. This was much more important
in the era when all games were played in the day.
Neil Cerutti
Probably this puzzle has had a chilling effect on the creation of
sports-based puzzles ever since its infamous debut. I think I
remember reading that a "cricket" puzzle had to be withdrawn from
_Curses_ from fear of a major backlash.
--
Neil Cerutti
Adam Thornton
Brian, are you a St. Louisan?
Adam
Default User
> Apropos of only your .signatures:
>
> Brian, are you a St. Louisan?
What a wild guess :)
Yes, although Cardinal Nation has its citizens all about the land. I
thought a few baseball-specific .sigs would be appropriate for the
subject.
Glenn P.,
> OK, you guys've piqued my curiosity; which game are you guys
> talking about?
"Zork II", by Infocom.
--_____ _____
{~._.~} * >>> [ "Glenn P.," <C128UserD...@FVI.Net> ] <<< * {~._.~}
_( Y )_ /| ------------------------------ |\ _( Y )_
(:_~*~_:)\| 7-Year-Old Boy On "Rescue: 911": "The ambulince (sic) |/(:_~*~_:)
(_)-(_) * took Marissa to the hostible (sic)." --April, 1996. * (_)-(_)
:: Take Note Of The Spam Block On My E-Mail Address! ::
Glenn P.,
> Can you solve the maze without swinging the bat?
Yes.
In fact, apart for providing a clue as to the nature of the maze, the
bat is completely irrelevant.
Glenn P.,
> I still want to know what's with the glowing sword that stops
> glowing... and the walls you can't see... and... yeah.
Solving the maze causes the door down to the next level open (right
where Home Plate is).
Once you've manged to open that portal, one level down, Cerberus is
waiting for you, which is enough to make ANY Elvish sword worthy of
the name to glow!
Richard Bos
> In article <lzoOg.908$5i7...@newsreading01.news.tds.net>,
> Neil Cerutti <hor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I haven't played in quite a while, so I don't really remember the
> >solution to this thing. Let's see how far I can get before I give
> >up and check a walkthrough. I've kept sarcastic notes. No
> >spoiler space, since I couldn't solve it today either, even when
> >I broke down and tried what I thought the solution was supposed
> >to be. If any readers here have not solved the puzzle, feel free
> >to take a guess at the solution after reading this transcript.
> >All the available clues are provided.
>
> There may be SPOILERS below:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> OK, it's been years for me also. I got to the bat and decided to try
> to run the bases -- once I knew it was baseball, I figure the
> diamond-shaped windows are bases. Based on the "southpaw" remarks in
> the newsgroup (which hints that a left-handed pitcher's left arm faces
> south), I tried "se, ne, sw, nw".
That's another thing. Until I read this post, I'd always assumed that
"southpaw" referred to a left-handed batter...
Richard
Richard Bos
> On 15-Sep-06 at 10:30am -0700, <tel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I still want to know what's with the glowing sword that stops
> > glowing... and the walls you can't see... and... yeah.
>
> Solving the maze causes the door down to the next level open (right
> where Home Plate is).
Nope. Right where the upstairs are, which is one step away in a (random,
orthogonal?) direction.
Richard
Glenn P.,
> That's another thing. Until I read this post, I'd always assumed that
> "southpaw" referred to a left-handed batter...
And *I* thought that it referred simply to a lefthanded PERSON -- period!
-- %%%%%%%%%%%% "Glenn P.," <C128UserD...@FVI.Net> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
===========================================================================
What went "Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, whimper-fizzle-pphhfffttt!" ???
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% --= The Y2K Bug... What Else? =-- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
===========================================================================
Glenn P.,
>> ...where Home Plate is).
> Nope. Right where the upstairs are, which is one step away in a (random,
> orthogonal?) direction.
You are correct: my memory was faulty.
-- %%%%%%%%%%%% "Glenn P.," <C128UserD...@FVI.Net> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
===========================================================================
What went "Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, whimper-fizzle-pphhfffttt!" ???
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% --= The Y2K Bug... What Else? =-- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
===========================================================================
:: Take Note Of The Spam Block On My E-Mail Address! ::
Default User
> On 18-Sep-06 at 9:13am -0000, <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > That's another thing. Until I read this post, I'd always assumed
> that > "southpaw" referred to a left-handed batter...
>
> And I thought that it referred simply to a lefthanded PERSON --
> period!
Well, it does, by extension.
> -- %%%%%%%%%%%% "Glenn P.," <C128UserD...@FVI.Net>
BTW, the standard .sig separator is dash dash space on a line by itself
(see mine below). The way you have it isn't recognized as a .sig by my
newsreader, and probably others, so I don't get the nice auto-snip on
reply. You may want to consider changing that.