TOOKiE'S SONG
Quintin Stone
that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted almost directly
from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called "Dungeon of Dread"? Is
there anyone else out there who read that book and spotted this?
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Roger Firth
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.021121...@yes.rps.net...
> So far, I've been kind of surprised... am I the only one who recognized
> that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted almost directly
> from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called "Dungeon of Dread"? Is
> there anyone else out there who read that book and spotted this?
I know nothing of the puzzle, and less of its origin, but I can't help
thinking that your phrase "lifted almost directly" is a little unkind.
For all I know that may be the case, but wouldn't you like to give
Jessica the benefit of the doubt, and say "seemed very similar"
or some other non-judgmental wording?
Cheers, Roger
--
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and more at http://www.firthworks.com/roger/
LoneCleric
>>So far, I've been kind of surprised... am I the only one who recognized
>>that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted almost directly
>>from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called "Dungeon of Dread"? Is
>>there anyone else out there who read that book and spotted this?
>
> I know nothing of the puzzle, and less of its origin, but I can't help
> thinking that your phrase "lifted almost directly" is a little unkind.
> For all I know that may be the case, but wouldn't you like to give
> Jessica the benefit of the doubt, and say "seemed very similar"
> or some other non-judgmental wording?
Unfortunately, I have to concur with Quintin here, and say:
No Freakin' Way
It's a total, complete, unapologetic rip-off. I also own that book,
although it's the french version (Le Donjon de L'Effroi). And the puzzle
is identical. Identical. The only way I could give Jessica the "benefit
of the doubt" on that was if she read the book, then hit her head so
hard she forgot about the book and thought the puzzle popped out of her
our imagination.
Here's a picture of the book cover, which happens to show exactly the
well with the water weird in it:
http://www.gamebooks.org/gallery/eq1-01o.jpg
Oh, even better - here's a transcript of the actual book. Start over here:
http://www.dodger.org/friv/games/dnd/Endless_Quest/Dungeon_of_Dread/html/062.html
You'll see that everything matches - I won't spoil by enumerated the
main component of the puzzle, but they're all there. Even the Water
Weird, which is after all a typical D&D monster.
I guess that ripping a puzzle is different from ripping an actual story.
After all, many commercial games use variants of classic puzzles.
Still, I don't understand why Jessica didn't think of altering the
puzzle to some extent - it wouldn't have been that tough. At least
replacing the Wyrm with acid or something.
I for one lower the game score by 1 point for this puzzle alone, because
it's not a behaviour I want to encourage in the Comp.
LC
Don A. Alsafi
> that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted almost directly
> from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called "Dungeon of Dread"? Is
> there anyone else out there who read that book and spotted this?
I remembered that book when playing that scene as well. HOWEVER - although
I should say that it's been years since I've read that book and so my memory
has correspondingly eroded - from what I recall, the only similarity is that
of having a Water Weird living in a well in an underground room. I don't
remember the *puzzle* (that of the keys on the ceiling) being lifted in that
regard at all.
-d-
Quintin Stone
> I know nothing of the puzzle, and less of its origin, but I can't help
> thinking that your phrase "lifted almost directly" is a little unkind.
> For all I know that may be the case, but wouldn't you like to give
> Jessica the benefit of the doubt, and say "seemed very similar" or some
> other non-judgmental wording?
I'm sorry, I can't. In fact, I did word it a little more gently than my
original thought. If you knew the puzzle in question and had read the
book I mentioned, the connection would be blaringly obvious.
However, it was not my intent to slam the author. Who here hasn't
borrowed a puzzle idea or two or three? More of a gentle ribbing then
anything else. But really, my intent was to simply find out if anyone
else had read the original book and recognized the source.
Don A. Alsafi
And considerably astonished.
-d-
Jessica Knoch
> So far, I've been kind of surprised... am I the only one who recognized
> that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted almost directly
> from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called "Dungeon of Dread"? Is
> there anyone else out there who read that book and spotted this?
>
Ahh... so that's it. I feel pretty sure I did read that book, many years
ago, and I knew the puzzle wasn't truly "original" but I couldn't remember
if/when/where I had heard/seen/read about it.
To be honest, I don't feel any of my puzzles in Tookie's Song were truly
"original." Give x to y, say the magic word, bring some ingredients together
to make something, not to mention the horrible office and kitchen cliches...
but I digress. Of course players may grade down for lack of originality if
they wish. I should probably mention it in an afterword, though.
By the way, was that the CYOA book about the mountain, with the lynx? I feel
quite sure I remember a lynx somewhere. Talking lynx. Anyone?
Jess K.
Knight37
the bones and whispered:
> "Quintin Stone" wrote...
>> So far, I've been kind of surprised... am I the only one who
>> recognized that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted
>> almost directly from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called
>> "Dungeon of Dread"? Is there anyone else out there who read that
>> book and spotted this?
>
> Ahh... so that's it. I feel pretty sure I did read that book, many
> years ago, and I knew the puzzle wasn't truly "original" but I
> couldn't remember if/when/where I had heard/seen/read about it.
>
> To be honest, I don't feel any of my puzzles in Tookie's Song were
> truly "original." Give x to y, say the magic word, bring some
> ingredients together to make something, not to mention the horrible
> office and kitchen cliches... but I digress.
Come to think of it, "original" puzzles are rare in any game.
> Of course players may
> grade down for lack of originality if they wish. I should probably
> mention it in an afterword, though.
> By the way, was that the CYOA book about the mountain, with the lynx?
> I feel quite sure I remember a lynx somewhere. Talking lynx. Anyone?
I know I've read the book in question and I also remember a talking lynx
but I thought the talking Lynx was in the D&D CYOA book about a white
dragon in the north or something, something about mountains and snow and
such. I would get out my books and check but I don't have them handy.
--
Knight37
John Wayne's not dead-he's frozen. And as soon as we find a cure for cancer
we're gonna thaw out the Duke out and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You
know why? Have you ever taken a cold shower? Well multiply that by 15
million times, that's how pissed off he's gonna be. I'm gonna get the Duke
and John Cassavetes and Lee Marvin and Sam Peckinpah and a case of whiskey
and drive down to Texas.
-- Dennis Leary
Quintin Stone
> Ahh... so that's it. I feel pretty sure I did read that book, many years
> ago, and I knew the puzzle wasn't truly "original" but I couldn't
> remember if/when/where I had heard/seen/read about it.
I was hoping this was the case, and I can certainly understand it.
Especially with my own poor memory.
> To be honest, I don't feel any of my puzzles in Tookie's Song were truly
> "original." Give x to y, say the magic word, bring some ingredients
> together to make something, not to mention the horrible office and
> kitchen cliches... but I digress. Of course players may grade down for
> lack of originality if they wish. I should probably mention it in an
> afterword, though.
It wasn't so much the use of the water weird that surprised me, it was the
fact that it was actually called "water weird". If it had been a
pseudopod of living water, or a water elemental, I may not have even
remembered the original book.
> By the way, was that the CYOA book about the mountain, with the lynx? I
> feel quite sure I remember a lynx somewhere. Talking lynx. Anyone?
Funny you should mention that. I recently rescued some old Endless Quest
books from my mother's house (the garage sale box) and one of them was
Mountain of Mirrors, a story where you go up against a white dragon, frost
giant, and encounter a talking lynx as you wander a mushroom-filled
cavern. Couldn't find Dungeon of Dread, though I did come across Pillars
of Pentegarn. (Hmmm, notice a pattern forming here?)
Jessica Knoch
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2002, Jessica Knoch wrote:
>
> > Ahh... so that's it. I feel pretty sure I did read that book, many years
> > ago, and I knew the puzzle wasn't truly "original" but I couldn't
> > remember if/when/where I had heard/seen/read about it.
>
> I was hoping this was the case, and I can certainly understand it.
> Especially with my own poor memory.
>
> > To be honest, I don't feel any of my puzzles in Tookie's Song were truly
> > "original." Give x to y, say the magic word, bring some ingredients
> > together to make something, not to mention the horrible office and
> > kitchen cliches... but I digress. Of course players may grade down for
> > lack of originality if they wish. I should probably mention it in an
> > afterword, though.
>
> It wasn't so much the use of the water weird that surprised me, it was the
> fact that it was actually called "water weird". If it had been a
> pseudopod of living water, or a water elemental, I may not have even
> remembered the original book.
>
> > By the way, was that the CYOA book about the mountain, with the lynx? I
> > feel quite sure I remember a lynx somewhere. Talking lynx. Anyone?
>
> Funny you should mention that. I recently rescued some old Endless Quest
> books from my mother's house (the garage sale box) and one of them was
> Mountain of Mirrors, a story where you go up against a white dragon, frost
> giant, and encounter a talking lynx as you wander a mushroom-filled
> cavern. Couldn't find Dungeon of Dread, though I did come across Pillars
> of Pentegarn. (Hmmm, notice a pattern forming here?)
>
Ah, yes, the mushrooms! Wasn't there a gigantic diamond or ruby in some
room, also? And the Pillars of Pentegarn sounds familiar too... was that the
one where you meet a wizard and a chick. I think the chick was a thief. I
thought that was the one with the water weird, though. Hmm... My parents
moved recently, so if any of my old books survived this long they are
probably gone for good.
Jess K.
Peter Seebach
Quintin Stone <st...@rps.net> wrote:
>However, it was not my intent to slam the author. Who here hasn't
>borrowed a puzzle idea or two or three?
With the exception of "[The bird's score has gone up by one point.]", I lifted
a puzzle straight from ADVENT in Janitor.
-s
--
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Quintin Stone
Yeah, I skimmed through the book recently, but didn't really read it (I
only rescued them for nostalgia's sake... like all the other crap I keep
around in boxes). There's one pic you'll probably remember of the lynx
gazing happily at his gigantic diamond treasure.
In Pillars of Pentegarn, you play a boy who speaks to animals. You meet
up with an old wizard and his companions, a brawny male warrior and a
female elven thief. This was the book with the lunging dragon skeleton on
the cover.
Knight37
> Funny you should mention that. I recently rescued some old Endless
> Quest books from my mother's house (the garage sale box) and one of
> them was Mountain of Mirrors, a story where you go up against a white
> dragon, frost giant, and encounter a talking lynx as you wander a
> mushroom-filled cavern. Couldn't find Dungeon of Dread, though I did
> come across Pillars of Pentegarn. (Hmmm, notice a pattern forming
> here?)
Yes, that's the one, Mountain of Mirrors. :)
--
Knight37
Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?
A little too ironic?
And yeah, I really do think...
-- Alanis Morissette, "Ironic"
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.021121...@yes.rps.net>,
> Quintin Stone <st...@rps.net> wrote:
>>However, it was not my intent to slam the author. Who here hasn't
>>borrowed a puzzle idea or two or three?
> With the exception of "[The bird's score has gone up by one point.]", I lifted
> a puzzle straight from ADVENT in Janitor.
Well, sure, but that was homage...
I'm still impressed with the room named "Poe Room".
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Peter Seebach
Thanks! The idea was that the room name would suggest the kind of silly
naming one sees in Zork and Advent.
Daphne Brinkerhoff
> that the very first puzzle of TOOKiE'S SONG was lifted almost directly
> from an old Dungeons & Dragons CYOA book called "Dungeon of Dread"? Is
> there anyone else out there who read that book and spotted this?
>
You aren't the only one. I hesitated to say anything because it's
been so long since I read the book you mentioned, and I wasn't even
sure which D&D book it was. And because I didn't recognize it until
after I read the hints for the puzzle. But, it definitely rang a
bell.
--
Daphne