My thoughts on the Comp...
Mike Sousa
did organizing this year's comp. A thanks also goes out to Mark Musante
and the other folks that did some work behind the scenes. Great job,
everybody.
Congrats to Ian. I enjoyed Kaged a lot and scored it very high.
Congrats to Emily. I played through it and realized how good it was,
even though I didn't get that much enjoyment from it. Personal taste,
that's all.
Congrats to J. Robinson Wheeler. Sorry J, haven't played it --- yet.
Congrats to Nick. Excellent job, I was proud that I figured a lot of it
on my own. :)
(My favorite game this year was Shade.)
This was my first comp and I enjoyed it from beginning to end. I'm very
happy with the placement of At Wit's End -- thanks to all who played and
scored it well. For those that scored it poorly, just be glad I didn't
submit Above and Beyond instead!
One of the things that I've learned is that reviews are mostly opinions
and as we all know, opinions vary widely. Granted, reviews usually
follow some staple formula (plot/writing/puzzles,etc..), but depending
on what side of I-F you're on, the results can and do vary. That's how
I can justify Dan Shiovits review of AWE (at ABOUT.COM) vs. Paul
O'Brian's review. One questions my sanity during the design stage and
recommends to the world (oh, okay, several hundred people or so) to not
play AWE. The other review is very complimentary and suggests that the
game is worth playing. Funny.
While I'm on reviews, let me say this. As a *player*, I have found them
very useful. I didn't get a chance to play all of the games and now,
after reading lots of reviews, I have put those games in a 'to play'
order. Very helpful. Thank you, Mr./Ms. reviewer. It is greatly
appreciated.
As an *author*, the reviews are not useful. Yeah, I got enjoyment on
how people responded to the game, but it didn't help me focus in on what
I need to work on.
Was it worth the time to code Led Zeppelin blasting on the radio? (more
importantly, did Vincent Lynch waste his time sending me bug reports on
the radio?)
Was it worth adding channels to the TV so that you can watch the report
on your accident/disappearance? Was it worth the trouble coding
exceptions for the microwave?
Feedback on that level will affect the next attempt -- either keep some
of that detail or don't bother, it's not being looked at.
I'm sure I'm not the first author to bring up the fact that reviews
don't really help them, but I figured I would add my two cents.
Anyway, the brain dump is over. Again, congrats to Ian -- excellent
job.
-- Mike
Sean T Barrett
>One of the things that I've learned is that reviews are mostly opinions
>and as we all know, opinions vary widely.
>As an *author*, the reviews are not useful. Yeah, I got enjoyment on
>how people responded to the game, but it didn't help me focus in on what
>I need to work on.
>
>Was it worth the time to code Led Zeppelin blasting on the radio?
[snip]
>Feedback on that level will affect the next attempt -- either keep some
>of that detail or don't bother, it's not being looked at.
Feedback literally on that level isn't very feasible, since it's
too detailed for a review, it's more at a betatesting level that
you'd get enough breadth. It seems to me it isn't beyond normal
reviewing styles for somebody to say "I loved all the little details--the
radio, the X, the Y, the Z, none of which had anything to do with the
game". On the other hand, if nobody notices it, nobody is going to
mention it; so you have to wonder: did nobody notice it, or is
nobody willing to mention that sort of thing in their reviews?
(I didn't notice it, and I think partly that reflects going to
the help/walkthrough too quickly and not experimenting enough.)
Last year I tried to offer some positives about every game, and then
three criticisms that were the three most important things for
improving the game experience for me. Anticipating the concern
"it's easy to destroy, but hard to build", I forced myself to
describe them in terms of what steps could be taken to improve
the game. I found this (a) way too hard, (b) to sound horribly
condescending, like I was telling people how to write their
games, and (c) no authors that I can recall indicated getting
any value from those suggestions. So I'm not doing it in my
reviews this year. But my reviews will still I hope be more
authorship-oriented.
SeanB
Mike Sousa
Sean T Barrett wrote:
> Mike Sousa <mso...@efortress.com> wrote:
> >One of the things that I've learned is that reviews are mostly opinions
> >and as we all know, opinions vary widely.
> [snip]
> >As an *author*, the reviews are not useful. Yeah, I got enjoyment on
> >how people responded to the game, but it didn't help me focus in on what
> >I need to work on.
> >
> >Was it worth the time to code Led Zeppelin blasting on the radio?
> >Was it worth ...
> [snip]
> >Feedback on that level will affect the next attempt -- either keep some
> >of that detail or don't bother, it's not being looked at.
>
> Feedback literally on that level isn't very feasible, since it's
> too detailed for a review, it's more at a betatesting level that
> you'd get enough breadth. It seems to me it isn't beyond normal
> reviewing styles for somebody to say "I loved all the little details--the
> radio, the X, the Y, the Z, none of which had anything to do with the
> game". On the other hand, if nobody notices it, nobody is going to
> mention it; so you have to wonder: did nobody notice it, or is
> nobody willing to mention that sort of thing in their reviews?
> (I didn't notice it, and I think partly that reflects going to
> the help/walkthrough too quickly and not experimenting enough.)
>
I was not recommending that reviews be altered to accommodate that. Reviews
as done today are very helpful to players. Keep them coming, please.
One of the things that helped me a lot was transcripts. I got to see how the
player *saw* the story. Very insightful and useful. Unfortunately, it's
rare for authors (me, at least) to get transcripts. Apart from that, I don't
know how players can provide more detailed feedback to authors.
>
> Last year I tried to offer some positives about every game, and then
> three criticisms that were the three most important things for
> improving the game experience for me. Anticipating the concern
> "it's easy to destroy, but hard to build", I forced myself to
> describe them in terms of what steps could be taken to improve
> the game. I found this (a) way too hard, (b) to sound horribly
> condescending, like I was telling people how to write their
> games, and (c) no authors that I can recall indicated getting
> any value from those suggestions. So I'm not doing it in my
> reviews this year. But my reviews will still I hope be more
> authorship-oriented.
>
> SeanB
Sounds like something I would welcome -- I'll go look for them in the
archives -- but I can imagine the amount of work behind that type of review
for 53 games... :)
-- Mike
J. Robinson Wheeler
> Was it worth the time to code Led Zeppelin blasting on the radio? (more
> importantly, did Vincent Lynch waste his time sending me bug reports on
> the radio?)
All hail Vincent Lynch. Don't worry about wasting his time. I think he loves
"wasting" it on fiddly side items that don't interact quite right.
There was a moment during the last week of September when, metaphorically,
Vincent came sprinting breathless into my room, handed me a bug report, and
panted, "Sorry I'm late -- just found out you're entering!" Then he dashed
off again to attend the other authors he was already helping, yelling "Good
luck!" over his shoulder. It was really quite charming.
--
J. Robinson Wheeler http://thekroneexperiment.com
whe...@jump.net
Jon Ingold
loves
>"wasting" it on fiddly side items that don't interact quite right.
I second this, and third it if I can.
All Hail Vincent Lynch.
Jon
Craxton
"Jon Ingold" <ji...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:8vba3a$elk$1...@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk...
Who is Vincent Lynch, and how come I've never heard of him before?
-Craxton
Jon Ingold
>>
>> All Hail Vincent Lynch.
>>
>
>Who is Vincent Lynch, and how come I've never heard of him before?
He is the Titan of beta-testers. I think, in the end, he tested eight, maybe
nine games for the comp? I first encountered him after releasing Mulldoon,
his first letter read "I've done some beta-testing now and again, and come
across a few problems..." Five versions and at least a hundred reports
later, that game is now "stable".
He is amazingly picky - sorry, *thorough*. Anyone who doesn't believe me,
type "blow on cows" in the start of My Angel.
Jon
Kathleen M. Fischer
"Jon Ingold" <ji...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >Who is Vincent Lynch, and how come I've never heard of him before?
>
> He is the Titan of beta-testers. I think, in the end, he tested eight,
maybe
> nine games for the comp? I first encountered him after releasing
Mulldoon,
> his first letter read "I've done some beta-testing now and again, and
come
> across a few problems..." Five versions and at least a hundred reports
> later, that game is now "stable".
>
> He is amazingly picky - sorry, *thorough*. Anyone who doesn't believe
me,
> type "blow on cows" in the start of My Angel.
Hmmm... does he do requests?
Kathleen
--
-- Masquerade - http://baf.wurb.com/if/competition00/inform/mask/
-- The Cove - Best of Landscape, Interactive Fiction Art Show 2000
-- ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/games/zcode/Cove.z5
-- Excuse me while I dance a little jig of despair
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
J. Robinson Wheeler
>>> I second this, and third it if I can.
>>>
>>> All Hail Vincent Lynch.
>>
>> Who is Vincent Lynch, and how come I've never heard of him before?
>
>
> He is the Titan of beta-testers. I think, in the end, he tested eight, maybe
> nine games for the comp?
Can we see one of those scatterplot graphs, showing how well the games that
Vincent Lynch beta-tested did in the final standings? Or even, whether these
are the games for which reviewers noted well-proofedness?
Michael Kinyon
>craxton wrote:
>>Who is Vincent Lynch, and how come I've never heard of him before?
>
>
>He is the Titan of beta-testers. I think, in the end, he tested
>releasing Mulldoon, his first letter read "I've done some
>beta-testing now and again, and come across a few problems..." Five
>versions and at least a hundred reports later, that game is now
>"stable".
Heh. That's exactly how I ended up being elevated
from the "informed on" list to the "playtester" list
in the original version of Curses. Sorry, an old-timer's
memories.
My former reputation as the high priest of beta-testing
was based on both that sort of thing and shameless
self-promotion. But age, real life, and humility
have taken their toll. I have not even finished
working through Andy Phillips' _Heroine's Mantle_,
and he has already released it. (I assume you are all
playing this game now that Compoo (as Joe Mason called
it) is over.)
It's a pleasure to hand over the crown:
All Hail Vincent Lynch!
MK
--
Michael Kinyon | email: mki...@iusb.edu
Dept of Mathematics & Computer Science | http://www.iusb.edu/~mkinyon
Indiana University South Bend | phone: 219-237-4240
South Bend, IN 46634 USA | fax: 219-237-6589
"Bonvolu alsendi la pordiston? Lausajne estas rano en mia bideo!
And I think we all know what that means." -- Rimmer
Domokov
All Hail Vincent Lynch!
MK >>
Don't even THINK this gets you out of testing my next game Michael ;) (oh,
and Mr. Lynch, I have a proposition for you too....)
Ian Finley
Magnus Olsson
chorus of praise for Vincent Lynch, my real question concerns this
little squiggle which has started to pop up in this newsgroup, for
example in the subject line of this thread:
0_o;;;;
What's that supposed to be? Some kind of smiley? I must confess that
I've never seen it before (which I suppose marks me as, to paraphrase
Zaphod Beeblebrox, so unhip it's a wonder my butt doesn't fall off,
but I'll take the risk).
--
Magnus Olsson (m...@df.lth.se, m...@pobox.com)
------ http://www.pobox.com/~mol ------
Mike Sousa
Vincent Lynch wrote:
> Michael Kinyon <mki...@iusb.edu> wrote:
> > ji...@cam.ac.uk (Jon Ingold)
> >>craxton wrote:
> >>>Who is Vincent Lynch, and how come I've never heard of him before?
> >>
> >>He is the Titan of beta-testers. I think, in the end, he tested
> >>eight, maybe nine games for the comp? I first encountered him after
> >>releasing Mulldoon, his first letter read "I've done some
> >>beta-testing now and again, and come across a few problems..." Five
> >>versions and at least a hundred reports later, that game is now
> >>"stable".
> >
> > Heh. That's exactly how I ended up being elevated
> > from the "informed on" list to the "playtester" list
> > in the original version of Curses. Sorry, an old-timer's
> > memories.
>
> I know. I've read all your interviews. ;-)
>
> > My former reputation as the high priest of beta-testing
> > was based on both that sort of thing and shameless
> > self-promotion. But age, real life, and humility
> > have taken their toll. I have not even finished
> > working through Andy Phillips' _Heroine's Mantle_,
> > and he has already released it. (I assume you are all
> > playing this game now that Compoo (as Joe Mason called
> > it) is over.)
>
> To my shame, I didn't even get past the introduction. (Which is to say I
> was too busy, not that it was impossibly hard or anything.)
>
> In any case, I suspect I've still got some way to go before I'm anywhere
> near as legendary as Michael...
>
> > It's a pleasure to hand over the crown:
> >
> > All Hail Vincent Lynch!
>
> I'm quite scared now.
>
> -Vincent
Glad I mentioned your name, Vincent... :) Well deserved praise... I've had
the wonderful opportunity to work with both Vincent and Michael in both my
games and they are outstanding to work with. Ok, I'm done sucking up...
A special mention should go out to Mr. David Gatewood who should also be
elevated on the pedestal Michael and Vincent are standing on. I only worked
with Dave in At Wit's End, but yikes -- incredible.
No IF game should be without one of those folks in the credits.... (but
that's only IMHO)
Excellent job guys...
--Mike
Michael Kinyon
>Michael Kinyon <mki...@iusb.edu> wrote:
>> Heh. That's exactly how I ended up being elevated
>> from the "informed on" list to the "playtester" list
>> in the original version of Curses. Sorry, an old-timer's
>> memories.
>
>I know. I've read all your interviews. ;-)
Oh dear. Every once in a while I reread the interview
with the much-missed C.E. Forman and it embarrasses me
how pretentious I sounded.
>> ...I have not even finished
>> working through Andy Phillips' _Heroine's Mantle_,
>> and he has already released it. (I assume you are all
>> playing this game now that Compoo (as Joe Mason called
>> it) is over.)
>
>To my shame, I didn't even get past the introduction. (Which is to
>say I was too busy, not that it was impossibly hard or anything.)
I got a little further (farther? I forget) than that,
but not much, for essentially the same reasons as you.
No, it's not an impossibly hard game, certainly not
like Andy's earlier ones.
>In any case, I suspect I've still got some way to go before I'm
>anywhere near as legendary as Michael...
Bah! You've already surpassed me. You handled seven games
in one Comp. The year I tried a stunt like that, I ended
up letting down most of the authors I was working for.
>> It's a pleasure to hand over the crown:
>>
>> All Hail Vincent Lynch!
>
>I'm quite scared now.
Ha! Just wait. There will come a day when there
will be four requests in your mailbox for testing.
Three will be from Zarf, Adam Cadre, and Ian Finley.
They will all be very big games. The fourth will be
the space opera game that Graham Nelson has been
working on in secret for over a year now. It will use
the new .z9 format and will weigh in at several megabytes.
And all four authors will have very short deadlines.
*Then* you'll be scared.
Michael Kinyon
>
>0_o;;;;
>
>What's that supposed to be? Some kind of smiley? I must confess that
>I've never seen it before (which I suppose marks me as, to paraphrase
>Zaphod Beeblebrox, so unhip it's a wonder my butt doesn't fall off,
>but I'll take the risk).
I don't know what it means either. When ignorant
people gather together in mobs, it can be very
dangerous. So someone out there should tell us,
or else Magnus and I are going to become a mob.
OK, a mob of two, but still a mob.
Cheers,
Fred M. Sloniker
>m...@pobox.com (Magnus Olsson) wrote in <8vetmb$mjh$2...@news.lth.se>:
>>
>>0_o;;;;
>>
>>What's that supposed to be? Some kind of smiley?
>I don't know what it means either.
Allow me to explain... (Well, I'll do it without being allowed, but
we'll all be happier if I don't have to cram this down your throat,
won't we?)
This kind of emoticon is designed to be read right-side-up. I'll just
stick a legend on it...
0_o;;;;
^^^^^^^
|||\||/
||| \/
||| = Sweat.
|| \= Other eye.
| \= Nose.
\= Eye.
(Note: if you don't have a non-proportional font, that'll be pretty
ugly.)
I call it an 'anime smiley', because that's the context I encounted it
in. n_n <- See, I'm happy! Look how my eyes are squinched up!
Michael Kinyon
>>>
>>>0_o;;;;
>>>
>>>What's that supposed to be? Some kind of smiley?
>
>
>
>Allow me to explain...
>
[explanation snipped]
>
>I call it an 'anime smiley', because that's the context
Oh. Anime. Since I don't care much for it, small wonder
I didn't get it. In any case, I don't think I ever would
have guessed that semicolons were supposed to be sweat.
Thank you for preventing the formation of a mob.