[I7] - What are the real upper limits?
Sean Huxter
submission. And the last thing I'm doing is adding a alot of response
text for when you ">Ask NPC about THING".
And as I go I keep blowing out MAX_ stuff in I6.
I keep upping those numbers, but what is the real upper limit to these?
Each of these I have had errors pop up on, so I upped the numbers.
Use MAX_PROP_TABLE_SIZE of 100000.
Use MAX_SYMBOLS of 40000.
Use MAX_DICT_ENTRIES of 2000.
Use MAX_ACTIONS of 400.
Use MAX_OBJ_PROP_COUNT of 128.
Use ALLOC_CHUNK_SIZE of 20000.
I haven't reached any of THESE limits, but what is the maximum? Is there
one with the Glulx option turned on?
I'm about 70% of the way finished adding these text strings, and already
two or three of these blew out.
What is the largest I7 game ever made?
Idle questions, but they concern me when I keep blowing these out as I go.
Sean.
Andrew Plotkin
> I'm getting close to declaring my latest project "done", at least for
> submission. And the last thing I'm doing is adding a alot of response
> text for when you ">Ask NPC about THING".
>
> And as I go I keep blowing out MAX_ stuff in I6.
>
> I keep upping those numbers, but what is the real upper limit to these?
>
> Each of these I have had errors pop up on, so I upped the numbers.
>
> Use MAX_PROP_TABLE_SIZE of 100000.
> Use MAX_SYMBOLS of 40000.
> Use MAX_DICT_ENTRIES of 2000.
> Use MAX_ACTIONS of 400.
> Use MAX_OBJ_PROP_COUNT of 128.
> Use ALLOC_CHUNK_SIZE of 20000.
These are compiler memory limits, not game file memory limits. Unlesa
you are running compiles on a laptop from 1997, there is no chance you
will run into any hard limits on these things.
Now, the code you are adding does use up real resources -- mostly RAM.
You may eventually run into the end of the Z-machine. But it has no
direct connection to the settings listed above.
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
Adam Thornton
Sean Huxter <se...@SPAMhuxter.org> wrote:
>What is the largest I7 game ever made?
AFAIK, it's Blue Lacuna, at about 320,000 words.
I believe Jesse McGrew (Vaporware) has one, or a WIP, somewhere north of
200,000 words.
The game I am entering in the Spring Thing is 160,000 words.
Adam
Captain Mikee
> In article <NsKdncSZf9BWARLQnZ2dnUVZ_h-dn...@giganews.com>,
> Sean Huxter <s...@SPAMhuxter.org> wrote:
>
> >What is the largest I7 game ever made?
>
> AFAIK, it's Blue Lacuna, at about 320,000 words.
>
> I believe Jesse McGrew (Vaporware) has one, or a WIP, somewhere north of
> 200,000 words.
>
> The game I am entering in the Spring Thing is 160,000 words.
>
> Adam
That's an interesting bit of perspective. I thought my game was
getting pretty big, but it's only 27,000 words!
Captain Mikee
> In article <NsKdncSZf9BWARLQnZ2dnUVZ_h-dn...@giganews.com>,
>
> >What is the largest I7 game ever made?
>
> AFAIK, it's Blue Lacuna, at about 320,000 words.
>
> I believe Jesse McGrew (Vaporware) has one, or a WIP, somewhere north of
> 200,000 words.
>
> The game I am entering in the Spring Thing is 160,000 words.
>
> Adam
By the way, does the word count given in the "errors" panel include
words in extensions? I know that Blue Lacuna had a lot of extensions
that Aaron wrote for it...
Adam Thornton
I don't believe it does. Or rather, each extension, and the Standard
Rules, gets its own word count, reported separately. For example (the
trivial example I just put together):
Inform 7 build 6G60 has started.
++ 0% (Lexical analysis)
I've now read your source text, which is 14 words long.
++ 5% (Semantic analysis)
I've also read Standard Rules by Graham Nelson, which is 39455 words long.
I've also read Metric Units by Graham Nelson, which is 6198 words long.
Adam
dott.Piergiorgio
well, I have already disclosed my pet project "GAGS game smaller than _A
Fable_ but actually playable", that is, ~14.000 chars, code and text...
but as usual, don't absolutely hold your breath on my WIPs....
Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
Sean Huxter
Hey, mine just hit the 160,000 mark myself! Wow. Are we nuts or what?
Sean.
Captain Mikee
I don't envy you guys when you type an open square bracket in the
IDE...
Adam Thornton
You get used to typing the close bracket and then backarrow first.
Also, I do a fair bit of my writing in Emacs anyway. But then, I am
well-acquainted with CLI Inform, ya know?
Adam
Sean Huxter
"Captain Mikee" <captai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0db281c4-1020-4f3a...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
Heh, Mikee... hence my post on the topic in another thread! One of my pet
peeves is hitting the [ key either by accident OR design.
Snore... wait... snore... go get cup of coffee... watch the spinning color
disk... snore... move mouse, see if it's back yet... nope... etc...
And though I KNOW I should type the END bracket first, then back-arrow,
back-arrow, I don't usually THINK that way, so I often forget.
Sean.
Aaron A. Reed
> In article <0db281c4-1020-4f3a-93f4-16b399a14...@f15g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
> Captain Mikee <captainmi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 30, 12:22 am, Sean Huxter <s...@SPAMhuxter.org> wrote:
> >> On 3/28/11 11:54 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>
> >> > The game I am entering in the Spring Thing is 160,000 words.
>
> >> > Adam
>
> >> Hey, mine just hit the 160,000 mark myself! Wow. Are we nuts or what?
>
> >> Sean.
>
> >I don't envy you guys when you type an open square bracket in the
> >IDE...
>
> You get used to typing the close bracket and then backarrow first.
>
> Also, I do a fair bit of my writing in Emacs anyway. But then, I am
> well-acquainted with CLI Inform, ya know?
>
> Adam
The Mac IDE is fairly unusable with a project that large,
unfortunately. The code got split into multiple extensions mostly out
of necessity, not style.
Checking old blog posts, I put the word count of Blue Lacuna at
368,988 shortly before release. I believe this was not including
extensions written by other people. (I just tried to get a word count
of the released source code, but the Statistics option crashed
TextMate...)
While a lot of the "technical" upper limits of I7 are now essentially
unreachable for most people, BL was really starting to creak the
limits of what the system can practically run. A lot of components
like pathfinding, room descriptions, and iterating over rules start to
slow down when you've got hundreds of rooms or thousands of things in
the world. There was some ugly hacking involved in getting BL to run
at decent speeds... I took advantage of the fact that it doesn't have
any portable objects to rewrite some scoping code that normally
iterates over every item each turn, for instance. (Although a lot of
this has been improved over the past 2-3 years; I7 games run
significantly faster now than they used to.)
For games approaching this size, Graham's advice in the manual is
pretty spot on: if you can figure out some way to divide your game
into multiple volumes, that's probably the best solution. (And modern
file i/o and terp capabilities make pertaining a state across multiple
story files a less daunting concept than it once was.)
--Aaron
S. John Ross
>> I don't envy you guys when you type an open square bracket in the
>> IDE...
>
> You get used to typing the close bracket and then backarrow first.
HECK yes.
Every now and then, I forget ...
Then I go refill my drink, as long as I'm waiting.
(Never been to 160,000 words on an I7 project since I still stick to
z-code, but ToaSK has been to 110,000 or so, and one of my WIPs is
already pushing 100,000 and has a ways to go ...)
David Kinder
>> You get used to typing the close bracket and then backarrow first.
>
> HECK yes.
> Every now and then, I forget ...
> Then I go refill my drink, as long as I'm waiting.
Is that on Mac or Windows? On Windows I would hope this isn't a problem, at
least with the recent Windows releases, since the switch to Scintilla as the
text editing component.
David