glGo self-destructed
Hans-Georg Michna
doesn't display any board or stones.
It happened when the screen blanker kicked in.
I can see move counters and I can hear the move clicks when I
follow a game on IGS, but I see no board.
I changed settings to 2D, back to 3D, I rebooted, no
improvement.
Another defect is that the tooltips flash up for a split second,
then disappear. I'm not sure whether that's been there earlier
already.
Has anybody seen this problem? Any ideas? Peter, are you here?
Hans-Georg
--
No mail, please.
-
Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> wrote:
> Just now glGo self-destructed. In fact, it seems to work, but it
> doesn't display any board or stones.
> It happened when the screen blanker kicked in.
Before bothering Peter, and this newsgroup, did you:
(a) obtain the latest update from Microsoft, if running Windows ?
(b) disinfect your system from SpyWare and AdWare?
(c) check for viruses using an effective Anti-Viral tool?
(d) monitor your process list and startup list for anomalies?
(e) check to see how much available drive space you have?
(f) run Scandisc, if necessary, from "Safe Mode" ?
(g) remove all unwanted software and do general housecleaning?
(h) re-install `glGo' with the latest version?
Hope that helps.
- regards
- jb
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France: Seven Police Injured in New Fighting
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10249
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Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> wrote:
>> Just now glGo self-destructed. In fact, it seems to work, but it
>> doesn't display any board or stones.
>> It happened when the screen blanker kicked in.
>> [ ... ]
> Before bothering Peter, and this newsgroup, did you:
>
> (a) obtain the latest update from Microsoft, if running Windows ?
> (b) disinfect your system from SpyWare and AdWare?
> (c) check for viruses using an effective Anti-Viral tool?
> (d) monitor your process list and startup list for anomalies?
> (e) check to see how much available drive space you have?
> (f) run Scandisc, if necessary, from "Safe Mode" ?
> (g) remove all unwanted software and do general housecleaning?
> (h) re-install `glGo' with the latest version?
> Hope that helps.
jb,
thanks for your wonderful advice, but the answer is,
unfortunately not. (a) to (g) is always regularly taken care of.
I'm a computer consultant, after all.
glGo is already the latest version. Before trying to reinstall
it, I'd prefer to hear from Peter, because if the program is
known to self-destruct and require re-installation, I'm not sure
I would reinstall it.
I think it's probably a defect either in the program itself or
in the Java virtual machine or in OpenGL. I still hope that the
problem is already known. So far it seems a bit unlikely that
I'm the only victim of this behavior.
By the way, the JRE version is 1.5.0_08-b03 only. No older
versions installed. Could it be that glGo is incompatible with
this version?
Frank de Groot
> Has anybody seen this problem? Any ideas? Peter, are you here?
It very much sounds like you need to install the latest screendriver for
your graphics card.
Try first setting Hardware graphics accelleration to one notch below "full".
tweet
> thanks for your wonderful advice, but the answer is,
> unfortunately not. (a) to (g) is always regularly taken care of.
> I'm a computer consultant, after all.
Amazing.
>
> glGo is already the latest version. Before trying to reinstall
> it, I'd prefer to hear from Peter, because if the program is
> known to self-destruct and require re-installation, I'm not sure
> I would reinstall it.
It is unlikely that Peter will respond here.
>
> I think it's probably a defect either in the program itself or
> in the Java virtual machine or in OpenGL. I still hope that the
> problem is already known. So far it seems a bit unlikely that
> I'm the only victim of this behavior.
You are the only person we have heard of that had this
happen to.
>
> By the way, the JRE version is 1.5.0_08-b03 only. No older
> versions installed. Could it be that glGo is incompatible with
> this version?
glGo is not a Java program.
>
> Hans-Georg
>
ChiyoDad
glGo project. I am not aware of who has taken-over his work.
Chris Lawrence
> > I think it's probably a defect either in the program itself or
> > in the Java virtual machine or in OpenGL. I still hope that the
> > problem is already known. So far it seems a bit unlikely that
> > I'm the only victim of this behavior.
>
> You are the only person we have heard of that had this
> happen to.
The exact same problem used to happen to me running an early version of
glGo on a Radeon Mobility series. I was in dialogue with Peter about it
but never really got past it - there was always some variant of this
problem:
o after a few moves I would hear the stones click but no new stones
would appear on the board
o stones would appear on the board but captures would not disappear
o I could hear the stones click but the screen remained blank
--
Chris
-
"Chris Lawrence" <new...@holosys.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> The exact same problem used to happen to me running an
^^^^^^^^^^^
< click >
Chris Lawrence
And? You think I specified "early version" by accident? I mentioned
the symptoms as a data point, not a debating point.
--
Chris
-
>> "Chris Lawrence" <new...@holosys.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
>>> The exact same problem used to happen to me running an
>>> early version of glGo ...
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
> "-" wrote:
>> < click >
Chris Lawrence <new...@holosys.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
> And? You think I specified "early version" by accident? I
> mentioned the symptoms as a data point, not a debating point.
A data point in -discontinuous- space. So we wonder why:
"ChiyoDad" <Chiy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Regretfully, Peter had informed me that he has since
> retired from the glGo project.
- regards
- jb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Fear and Illusion: Why Ahmadinejad and Chavez are right
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10235
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-
> "-" wrote:
>> < click >
"Renli" <oliver....@gmail.com> wrote:
> ... which would indicate that the problem was never really addressed
> (as Mr. Lawrence did in fact state) and that, as a direct consequence,
> another user is now experiencing a similar problem.
Software developers are not beholden to supporting bug-fixing
on deceased versions of the software. Similar problems can occur
for unrelated users on account of similar defects in operating system
installations. In order to qualify as a bug, before we bother software
engineers, significant filtration procedures need to be in place to keep
away the detritus and human trash who have problems operating their
computers properly with the most recently installed software version.
Was it any surprise that "art appreciation challeged" individuals again
are in business of getting stuck by the tar baby swamps of old versions?
- regards
- jb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-drug activists assail subversive Jewish billionaire
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10263
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> Software developers are not beholden to supporting bug-fixing
> on deceased versions of the software.
But it's a pity that people have problems and have to - in desperation - ask
here how to solve it.
Here they are ridiculed by bystanders, telling them "You are the only one
with this problem".
Of course absence of evidence is not evidence of absence (of a bug) and
SOMEONE must be the first to report a bug.
The "one bug report is no bug reported" doctine is rude and wrong.
This is why it's often better to PAY for software.
Because if you invest your time and efort into using and learning some
software, only for it to be dumped and discarded, you can start all over
again with other freeware, and the next, ad infinitum because most of those
freeware authors get bored of it after a while.
> for unrelated users on account of similar defects in operating system
> installations. In order to qualify as a bug, before we bother
> software
> engineers, significant filtration procedures need to be in place to
> keep
> away the detritus and human trash who have problems operating their
> computers properly
This is bullshit.
Every problem with a piece of software is ALWAYS to be considered a bug in
that same software, until the contrary is proven.
Any other way of dealing with customer dissatisfaction is suicidal. You can
only get away with such an attitude when you make freeware.
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Software developers are not beholden to supporting bug-fixing
>> on deceased versions of the software.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> But it's a pity that people have problems and have to - in
> desperation - ask here how to solve it.
The pity occurs because such individuals cannot send email to
friends or make telephone calls before exposing their own stupidity.
> Here they are ridiculed by bystanders, telling them "You are the
> only one with this problem".
> Of course absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
> (of a bug) and SOMEONE must be the first to report a bug.
>
> The "one bug report is no bug reported" doctine is rude and wrong.
In an uncontrolled testing environment, such as what Hans-Georg
Michna applies, a bug report after thousands have already made many
thousands of testing hours is more likely wrongly than rightly perceived.
The "threshold of significance" for bothering a software engineer must
exceed the "threshold of interest" which that software engineer exhibits.
> This is why it's often better to PAY for software.
Especially the pilfered databases that you say are software ?
> Because if you invest your time and efort into using and learning some
> software, only for it to be dumped and discarded, you can start all over
> again with other freeware, and the next, ad infinitum because most of
> those freeware authors get bored of it after a while.
Conversely you obtain less facility with different software interfaces
when using only one software product repeatedly and _ad_infinitum_.
>> ...In order to qualify as a bug, before we bother software engineers,
>> significant filtration procedures need to be in place to keep away the
>> detritus and human trash who have problems operating their
>> computers properly
> This is bullshit.
>
> Every problem with a piece of software is ALWAYS to be considered
> a bug in that same software, until the contrary is proven.
> Any other way of dealing with customer dissatisfaction is suicidal. You
> can only get away with such an attitude when you make freeware.
If you are supporting software that you have sold to the client, then
you are correct. With regards to the case of Hans-Georg Michna and
`glGo' we are speaking of freeware supplied with no guarantees implied.
Guy claims to be computer consultant but he ran to mommy & daddy on
this newsgroup as soon as he bruised his knee on the big bad machine.
He admitted to not re-installing `glGo' and -irrelevant- JRE diversions.
Generally we accept all bug reports for initial releases and then begin
doubting ever so slightly the veracity of bug reports once a software
package has demonstrated significant reliability over the course of time.
That ever so slight doubt rises to the next quantum threshold level with
additional field testing. Ease of user interface also implies more users
who were not filtered by installation difficulties of previous versions.
- regards
- jb
----------------------------------------------------------
UK: 'Honor' Killing Leaves Child Dead
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10255
----------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
>> This is why it's often better to PAY for software.
>
> Especially the pilfered databases that you say are software ?
If you would have occasionally pulled your head out of your
Yabba-the-Hut -like ass, you would be aware of the fact that the Moyo Go
Studio game collection has been freely shared on eMule for quite a while.
That collection contains the infamous "ethically disputed games".
So no, you lying and insinuating slimeball, I am not making any money with
those games.
I encourage everyone to get those games from eMule.
Do a search for "MoyoGo" on eMule (category "Program") and you'll find:
40683proGames.zip and 42784ProGames.7z
Courstesy yours truly and others, for the benefit of those in countries
where they like to study Go games but they can't cough up the dough that
those extortionists demand for "their" (LOL) public domain games.
Now crawl back into your hole, scum.
Someone who goes on and on slandering people who conduct their business most
ethically and to maximum benefit for the Go community are scum, there is no
other word for it.
Hans-Georg Michna
>The exact same problem used to happen to me running an early version of
>glGo on a Radeon Mobility series. I was in dialogue with Peter about it
>but never really got past it - there was always some variant of this
>problem:
>
>o after a few moves I would hear the stones click but no new stones
>would appear on the board
>
>o stones would appear on the board but captures would not disappear
>
>o I could hear the stones click but the screen remained blank
Chris,
could you resolve it? Did it disappear in later versions?
By the way, I have a near-clone of the problem computer, and on
that one the program runs fine.
Very strange. The thought occurred to me that something went
wrong with the 3D parameters, such that the board is off-screen
or smaller than one pixel or some such. But the program doesn't
have a reset-3D-to-defaults function.
Hans-Georg Michna
>"Hans-Georg Michna" <hans-georgN...@michna.com> wrote
Frank,
I'm running the latest display driver. In fact, one suspicion is
that perhaps this latest driver is a factor. I could downgrade
the video driver to a previous version, but I wouldn't do that.
glGo is not important enough to warrant changing the global
configuration.
glGo doesn't have any graphics acceleration settings, as far as
I can tell. In fact, I don't remember seeing such a setting
anywhere.
To be honest, my gut feeling is that this has nothing to do with
the software and driver installation of the computer. It is a
pure glGo problem. Something like the board being outside the
viewport.
Hans-Georg Michna
>Regretfully, Peter had informed me that he has since retired from the
>glGo project. I am not aware of who has taken-over his work.
Chiyo,
that's a pity! glGo is really a fine program, even if it still
has a few kinks and isn't perfectly finished yet.
I wonder whether it would be good enough for outright selling. I
guess that some people would buy it.
Hans-Georg Michna
>> By the way, the JRE version is 1.5.0_08-b03 only. No older
>> versions installed. Could it be that glGo is incompatible with
>> this version?
> glGo is not a Java program.
Tweet,
ah, I forgot! Thanks for reminding me of this.
Another possible cause out of the question.
Frank de Groot
> glGo doesn't have any graphics acceleration settings, as far as
> I can tell. In fact, I don't remember seeing such a setting
> anywhere.
I am talking about Windows' own graphics accelleration setting.
This is deeply hidden in the screen properties "Advanced" setting.
All windows versions have it, and it often solves such problems.
> To be honest, my gut feeling is that this has nothing to do with
> the software and driver installation of the computer. It is a
> pure glGo problem. Something like the board being outside the
> viewport.
Could be.
But setting accelleration to software-emulated will verify that it's not the
DirectX/OpenGL driver problem.
Sorry but I have no time to make a step-by-step explanation on how to do
this, but it's very easy to find on the web.
Peter Strempel
glGo Windows version when using the OpenGL 3D board. However, in my
opinion this is not a glGo issue, because
* when I installed a different driver for my Nvidia videocard, the
problem went away
* I've never seen it on Linux or Macintosh, nor have received reports
about the issue happening on those operating systems.
If it were a pure glGo issue, then the problem should occur regardless
of which driver is installed and regardless of the operating system.
The problem, as observed, only occured when using two or more 3D boards
at the same time. It never occured to me with the 2D board, or when
using only one 3D board.
I could not reproduce it reliably, nor could anyone tell me how to
reproduce it. As such, issues I cannot reproduce I cannot fix.
I also heard about a different problem on ATI graphiccards, but lacking
that hardware myself I couldn't investigate. The report by Chris was one
of those.
The only screensaver I use is a blank black screen, which so far never
corrupted the glGo display nor any other program.
The installed Java version is indeed irrelevant, as Tweet mentioned, as
glGo doesn't use any Java whatsoever.
To sum it up: No idea. I cannot fix what I cannot reproduce.
> Peter, are you here?
Yes, I am, at least occasionally. But not really interested anymore.
Peter
Frank de Groot
> The problem, as observed, only occured when using two or more 3D boards at
> the same time.
HW acceleration problem. Card/driver can't handle too many large textures or
something.
As your customers with problems to try this: Rightclick the desktop, choose
Properties - on the Settings Tab the Advanced button - Troubleshoot Tab:
Move the Hardware Acelleration slider to the description: "Disable all
DirectDraw and DirectX accelerations".
-
>>> This is why it's often better to PAY for software.
> "-" <yabba...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Especially [for] the pilfered databases that you say are software ?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> If you would have occasionally pulled your head out of your
> Yabba-the-Hut -like ass, you would be aware of the fact that the Moyo Go
> Studio game collection has been freely shared on eMule for quite a while.
> That collection contains the infamous "ethically disputed games".
Oh; I wonder -who- decided to share those "ethically disputed games" ?
> So no, you lying and insinuating slimeball, I am not making any money
> with those games. I encourage everyone to get those games from eMule.
Are any of those games available in eBooks, by any chance?
> Do a search for "MoyoGo" on eMule (category "Program") and you'll find:
> 40683proGames.zip and 42784ProGames.7z
Funny. I did a search for "MoyoGo" and I found "MoyoGo" itself !!
> Courstesy yours truly and others, for the benefit of those in countries
> where they like to study Go games but they can't cough up the dough that
> those extortionists demand for "their" (LOL) public domain games.
So it's ok to distribute on `p2p' what `rfathzadeh' cannot exchange
via the Warez html or ftp server?
> Now crawl back into your hole, scum.
> Someone who goes on and on slandering people who conduct their
> business most ethically and to maximum benefit for the Go community
> are scum, there is no other word for it.
In the past, though, you have admitted to behaving unethically when
the circumstances might require it. Seems that you're on both sides of a
copyright question, as well as the Warez == `p2p' equivalency question.
--------------------------------------------------------
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If you are secure in your notions, why do you distribute from Russia?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> A) I do not distribute from Russia, you damned liar. hundreds of my
> customers can testify that the postage stamp on the envelope the DVD comes
> in, is NORWEGIAN envelope with a NORWEGIAN post office rubber stamp on it.
The fact that you send other mail from Norway does not affect
whether you distribute from Russia.
> B) The reason my website is in Russia, as I have told you a million times
> before, is because ANders Kierulf of SmartGo filed a frivolous DCMCA
> complaint at PowWeb, and it is standard policy at all US web hosting
> providers to immediately pull the plug on any website accused of violation
> of said act, regardless of merit of the claim. Simply to cover their asses
> in case there IS merit.
Does your website serve webpages and distribute trivia from Russia?
> I immediately (hours after they blocked my website) moved the website
> to a country where corporate cleptocracy has not yet stretched its
> tentacles into the web hosting business.
>
> Those who have uncrupulously attacking my livelihood are citizens of the
> US/UK rogue state axis. It's Anders Kierulf of SmartGo, T. Mark Hall and
> John Fairbairn of the UK, and some operatives that have infiltrated AGA.
Why not simply publish your juicy obscenities in the AGA Journal?
> There seems to be a corporate concensus that the US/UK alliance can
> do anything it likes, including arresting non-citizens and torturing them,
> illegally invading and radioactively polluting countries and killing their
> inhabitants, and, as I came to experience, shut down websites of foreigners
> who threaten the corporate profits of their tax-paying sheeple.
Now you are criticizing those who -pay- taxes as "sheeple" ? So
it's just a lose-lose situation whenever classifying your attitudes, eh?
> So me, having lived years in Russia, speaking and writing fluent Russian,
> being intimately familiar with the more HONEST business culture there, I
> decided to stop paying the cowardly PowWeb, accomplice of the tax-evading
> SmartGo Go game monopoly kartel member.
I work with taxes. To my knowledge IRS has not triggered an audit
for the Kierulf trust fund. It would be a simple matter for them to make
a clear determination whether any tax-evasion was going on. Q.E.D.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> I forgot to mention that the country I live in (Norway) borders with Russia.
Have you been there recently to check whether the border still exists?
> ... The very few things the US still exports (like web hosting) will soon be
> a thing of the past, where law abiding customers can be cut off without
> notice or explanation. It's time the US is shown its place - in the gutter.
Won't they still have their portable iPods ? Can you prove that "4"
is never generated by John Conway's -audioactive- sequences?
- regards
- jb
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Principal Negative Stereotypes Against European Americans
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10267
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Frank de Groot
> Oh; I wonder -who- decided to share those "ethically disputed games"
> ?
I had them for half a year on my website for free download, you senile ass.
And as soon as others lost their fear of threatened retaliation by the
GoGoD/SmartGo/Gobase kartel, I could stop redistributing the games on my
site. As you know, that collection is the largest in the public domain,
which cost me a small fortune in bandwidth cost because as you know, Korea
and Japan have millions of Go players and good news travels fast.
So you are lying when you claim that I did not redistribute these games
myself. Lying, as usual.
> Funny. I did a search for "MoyoGo" and I found "MoyoGo" itself
> !!
Cool!
I doubt it though. I did not find it. And if it happens, then God help the
wretched soul that will install it.
MGS doesn't have no copy protection for no reason.
Every version is unique.
> So it's ok to distribute on `p2p' what `rfathzadeh' cannot
> exchange
> via the Warez html or ftp server?
Liar, liar pants on fire! Non-commented game collections are NOT subject to
Copyright.
> In the past, though, you have admitted to behaving unethically
> when
> the circumstances might require it.
You are a liar. I said that I did something "unethical" as a direct,
defensive and necessary response to something much more unethical.
And, soon after I said that, I analized the situation and I took it back. I
have been, for the past few years, of the opinion that building the largest
Go game database and distributing it freely is not unethical, especially not
when it breaks the suffocating grip of the money-grabbing Go game kartels.
The thing that's unethical is to make one million american dollars as a
result of illegally claiming ownership of public property, and protecting
this monopoly with threats and criminal collusion.
I have always said PLEASE sue me, and given my name, address and phone
number. I'm still waiting for the scum to sue me.
So far, the vermin have threatened me and initiated some PsyOps here &
there, but nothing major. If anything major happens, I will unleash a
shitstorm upon them (SmartGo, GoGoD, GoBase), and they know it.
> Seems that you're on both sides of a
> copyright question, as well as the Warez == `p2p' equivalency
> question.
Nobody but the house troll Jeff Boscole the pathological liar thinks there
is a Copyright issue here.
> The fact that you send other mail from Norway does not affect
> whether you distribute from Russia.
Liar, the DVD is sent from Norway, not from Russia.
> Does your website serve webpages and distribute trivia from Russia?
Liar, you falsely claimed I was distributing illegal materials from Russia.
> Why not simply publish your juicy obscenities in the AGA Journal?
Liar, it is not true that AGA allows me to publish something in their
journal.
> I work with taxes. To my knowledge IRS has not triggered an
> audit
> for the Kierulf trust fund. It would be a simple matter for them to
> make
> a clear determination whether any tax-evasion was going on. Q.E.D.
Liar, it is not true that Kierulf pays taxes.
As I have demonstrated, Kierulf evades 100% of his income tax.
> Have you been there recently to check whether the border still exists?
Liar, Norway does have a border with Russia.
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh; I wonder -who- decided to share those "ethically disputed games" ?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> I had them for half a year on my website for free download ...
Which made it `ok' to put on `p2p' distribution ?
> And as soon as others lost their fear of threatened retaliation by the
> GoGoD/SmartGo/Gobase kartel, I could stop redistributing the games
> on my site.
What a relief ! You were -finally- exonerated of any crimes !!!
> So you are lying when you claim that I did not redistribute these games
> myself. Lying, as usual.
Oh, sorry. Hadn't realized you wanted to take credit for shady ethics.
>> So it's ok to distribute on `p2p' what `rfathzadeh' cannot exchange
>> via the Warez html or ftp server?
> Liar, liar pants on fire! Non-commented game collections are NOT
> subject to Copyright.
As a matter of fact the -collection- IS subject to Copyright, though
individual games within that collection are not subject to Copyright.
>> In the past, though, you have admitted to behaving unethically when
>> the circumstances might require it.
> You are a liar. I said that I did something "unethical" as a direct,
> defensive and necessary response to something much more unethical.
So the circumstances required that you do something "unethical" ?
> And, soon after I said that, I analized the situation and I took it back. I
> have been, for the past few years, of the opinion that building the largest
> Go game database and distributing it freely is not unethical, especially not
> when it breaks the suffocating grip of the money-grabbing Go game kartels.
> The thing that's unethical is to make one million american dollars as a
> result of illegally claiming ownership of public property, and protecting
> this monopoly with threats and criminal collusion.
I would agree with you, that if the "money-grabbing Go game kartels"
are not returning some of their profits to the players of those games,
then they are behaving unethically. So are you returning a portion of
profits to the players of those games?
> I have always said PLEASE sue me, and given my name, address
> and phone number. I'm still waiting for the scum to sue me.
I don't suppose that anybody has that much time to spend with you.
> So far, the vermin have threatened me and initiated some PsyOps here
> & there, but nothing major. If anything major happens, I will unleash a
> shitstorm upon them (SmartGo, GoGoD, GoBase), and they know it.
Such as placing -their- products onto `p2p' servers, too ?
>> The fact that you send other mail from Norway does not affect
>> whether you distribute from Russia.
> Liar, the DVD is sent from Norway, not from Russia.
Yet other `trivial' distributions occur from the Russian website.
You even admitted distributing the pro games from your website.
>> Does your website serve webpages and distribute trivia from Russia?
> Liar, you falsely claimed I was distributing illegal materials from Russia.
When did I say you were distributing "illegal materials" ?
>> Why not simply publish your juicy obscenities in the AGA Journal?
> Liar, it is not true that AGA allows me to publish something in their journal.
Perhaps after they remove the obscenities then nothing remains ?
>> I work with taxes. To my knowledge IRS has not triggered an audit
>> for the Kierulf trust fund. It would be a simple matter for them to make
>> a clear determination whether any tax-evasion was going on. Q.E.D.
> Liar, it is not true that Kierulf pays taxes.
> As I have demonstrated, Kierulf evades 100% of his income tax.
Contact the IRS then. Have them perform another audit.
>> Have you been there recently to check whether the border still exists?
> Liar, Norway does have a border with Russia.
So there's not much difference between distributing from Norway
and distributing from Russia ?
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
America's Middle Class Shrinking in Globalist Economy
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10275
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hans-Georg Michna
glad to see you here!
Good news---the problem is identified, and I have a workaround
and even a proposal or two how it could be fixed.
I suspected that through some weird mouse or keyboard
interaction after the screen blanker hit I could have pushed the
board out of the viewport, and that must have been it. When the
screen blanker kicks in, I usually make some hectical mouse
movements and press a non-functional key, preferably the shift
key. This normally has no effect on running programs, but it
wreaks havoc with the 3D board in glGo.
I dug up the settings and found, after some experimentation,
that I could reset the board position and size by deleting the
following lines in glGo.rc:
RX=-6.33336
RY=58.6667
RZ=0
SX=2.54
SY=-1.655
SZ=1.5
Fovy=24
After that I restarted glGo, and the board was back in its
default position and size.
So that was the workaround, and the proposal how to fix it is
that the program does a plausibility check to see whether too
much of the board is outside the window. If that is the case,
let the program gently push it back in the direction of the
window center, enough so the user sees at least a corner of the
board and can grab and move it.
Another possible solution would be to check whether very much or
all of the board is off-limits, and in that case simply move it
back to defaults.
Thanks to everybody who tried to help. The discussion somehow
kept me going in the right direction.
glGo is still a very important program, about the best to play
GnuGo and also to access IGS. I don't go there often, but I
wouldn't like to lose the ability altogether. Peter, I hope that
you don't abandon it. I think it's quite good and needs no more
than some occasional minor improvements.
Frank de Groot
> Which made it `ok' to put on `p2p' distribution ?
Liar, non-annotated games /aren't/ Copyrighted.
> What a relief ! You were -finally- exonerated of any crimes !!!
Liar, non-annotated games /aren't/ Copyrighted.
> Oh, sorry. Hadn't realized you wanted to take credit for shady
> ethics.
Liar, it wan't me who is unethical, on the contrary it's those who try to
discredit competing software and those who build a financially motivated
game record monopoly.
> As a matter of fact the -collection- IS subject to Copyright,
> though
> individual games within that collection are not subject to Copyright.
Liar, non-copyrighted items in a collection are /not/ Copyrightable either.
The only protection is the EU database directive, for databases /as a
whole/.
So it does not apply to what I'm doing, liar.
> So the circumstances required that you do something "unethical" ?
Liar, I never did anything unethical.
> I would agree with you, that if the "money-grabbing Go game
> kartels"
> are not returning some of their profits to the players of those games,
> then they are behaving unethically. So are you returning a portion of
> profits to the players of those games?
Liar, that's not the reason they are unethical.
> Such as placing -their- products onto `p2p' servers, too ?
Liar, I never said that.
YOU threatened to do that, liar.
*I* said I was against that, liar.
> When did I say you were distributing "illegal materials" ?
Liar, you DID say that.
> Perhaps after they remove the obscenities then nothing remains ?
That's a lie.
Peter Strempel
> RX=-6.33336
> [...]
> Fovy=24
Those are the lines for the 3D board position, rotation and zoom. I
originally thought you were talking about the window itself.
Anyways, I see what probably happened. Hold Shift & Move mouse will move
the board around. Which itself is fine, that's what it is supposed to
do. But you can completely move it away, so only the background remains.
I assume that's exactly what had happened.
You can reset the 3D board view by hitting the <Backspace> key, which
will restore the view to top-down and center the board in the window.
Which is easier than editing the ini file. However, good detective work
to figure that out. :)
Yes, some automated sanity check might be an idea. Right now you can
move, rotate or zoom the board as much as you want, even out of view. If
you actually see it happening I don't think it should confuse anyone,
but if you do it accidently without watching because of the screensaver,
I can understand the confusion.
Guess some simple check if the board is almost out of view and then just
stop moving it further should do the trick.
In any case, this is unrelated to 3D drivers or hardware. Though that
wasn't clear to me before the most recent explanation as well.
Peter
-
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Liar, non-annotated games /aren't/ Copyrighted.
You mean, once you strip off the copyright messages ?
>> What a relief ! You were -finally- exonerated of any crimes !!!
> Liar, non-annotated games /aren't/ Copyrighted.
Hadn't you mentioned some "treatened retaliation" ?
>> Oh, sorry. Hadn't realized you wanted to take credit for shady ethics.
> Liar, it wan't me who is unethical, on the contrary it's those who try
> to discredit competing software and those who build a financially
> motivated game record monopoly.
I don't suppose that you have ever discredited competing software?
>> As a matter of fact the -collection- IS subject to Copyright, though
>> individual games within that collection are not subject to Copyright.
> Liar, non-copyrighted items in a collection are /not/ Copyrightable either.
> The only protection is the EU database directive, for databases /as a
> whole/. So it does not apply to what I'm doing, liar.
I'll accept that. The database */as a whole/* is copyright. Which is
what a -collection- of games, or an arranged bibliography, amounts to.
>> So the circumstances required that you do something "unethical" ?
> Liar, I never did anything unethical.
Hmmm. Allow me to refresh your memory:
>> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:49:34 +0200
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
>> I would agree with you, that if the "money-grabbing Go game kartels"
>> are not returning some of their profits to the players of those games,
>> then they are behaving unethically. So are you returning a portion of
>> profits to the players of those games?
> Liar, that's not the reason they are unethical.
You don't find exploitation of players without proper compensation unethical?
>> Such as placing -their- products onto `p2p' servers, too ?
> Liar, I never said that.
> YOU threatened to do that, liar.
> *I* said I was against that, liar.
No, I observed that it could be done. If they're concerned about
unauthorized use then they could come up with a scheme similar
to yours which, I gather, individually licenses each edition...
>> When did I say you were distributing "illegal materials" ?
> Liar, you DID say that.
Anyone can search for the phrase and come up empty. What
does this tell everybody about Frank de Groot's slimy little scams?
>> Perhaps after they remove the obscenities then nothing remains ?
> That's a lie.
Or, maybe it was the case that your obscenities negated all positives?
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Mef" <mwil...@gmail.com> wrote
>> ...How exactly does one become addicted to Tourette's?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> ... a perfectly rational, though verbose explanation for it :-D
Rather often a "google" search can save us all lots of time ...
Results 1 - 100 of about 174,000 for addiction "tourette's". (0.17 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=addiction&num=100&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=tourette%27s&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hans-Georg Michna
>You can reset the 3D board view by hitting the <Backspace> key
Ah, if only I had known!
Just tried it---works perfectly. Perhaps you could make that
function visible somewhere, which would also solve the problem.
I looked through all the 3D settings and changed several in my
attempts to get the board back. If I had seen a reset button
anywhere, I would have clicked on it.
Frank de Groot
> You mean, once you strip off the copyright messages ?
Liar, is is a lie that adding a Copyright message to public domain data
suddenly and miraculously transforms it into Copyrighted data.
You seem to be of the canine persuasion - pissing on something makes it
"yours".
*'* am /not/ a dog - I'm a human being - and I operate according to ethical
and legal principles.
> Hadn't you mentioned some "treatened retaliation" ?
Liar, threatening retaliation for illegal practices does /not/ affect
Copyright on public domain data.
> I don't suppose that you have ever discredited competing software?
Liar, I have never discredited competing software.
All I've done was put up a comparison, when SmartGo lied and claimed it had
better "Kombilo" search.
SmartGo claimed that competing products were inferior (after copying my
"free" search..). I demonstrated the opposite.
> I'll accept that. The database */as a whole/* is copyright. Which is
> what a -collection- of games, or an arranged bibliography, amounts to.
Liar, building a 55,000 game collection containing a tiny subset of another
database is /not/ a Copyright violation.
>>> So the circumstances required that you do something "unethical" ?
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:49:34 +0200
> >> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> >>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
Liar. Cutting off most of my sentence amounts to a lie.
I never did anything unethical, neither did I ever said so.
> You don't find exploitation of players without proper compensation
> unethical?
Liar, I never claimed that - the opposite - I claimed that GoGoD exploits
players by selling off and monopilizing their public domain game records.
> No, I observed that it could be done.
If you keep on "observing", I just might put your name & address & a picture
of you naked on my frontpage for a week.
Let's see who'll be "observing" then ;-)
-
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Liar, is is a lie that adding a Copyright message to public domain
> data suddenly and miraculously transforms it into Copyrighted data.
Frank seems to be in the habit of calling anyone a liar who
merely happens to disagree with him. The original game record
is public domain, but once entering it into a specific electronic
form and arranging it into a collection that game record becomes
a "data entry" and, in its collection, it is then part of a "database."
A copyright message might be affixed not to the content of the
game record but to its formal presentation in a particular format.
That's not unlike affixing a secretarial entry for a memorandum
to be signed by an executive officer. The secretary's initials are
just as much a component of the new memorandum as its body
of text, date, addresse information, and signature block. Another
reason some electronic game record might be copyright is due
to the origin of its circumstances: perhaps it was obtained by a
mechanical recording device in broadcasting circumstances and
the copyright message on that game record concerns broadcast.
Of course anyone could take the raw information out of a game
record and manipulate into a different form, even a similar form, but
to appropriate whole-hog the undifferentiated electronic record is
a taking without proper compensation to that record's initiators.
The copyright message also indicates attribution and awards
proper credit to the people who created that form of a game record.
If you really believe that the copyright cannot be enforced then you
have no choice but to leave the copyright message intact in the game
record. The fact that you stripped off the copyright messages, and
today cannot tell us how many of your games are uniquely in the
GoGoD database, indicates your conscientious -culpability- in the
meticulous procedures you were determined to follow, and willfully.
> You seem to be of the canine persuasion - pissing on something
> makes it "yours". *'* am /not/ a dog - I'm a human being - and I
> operate according to ethical and legal principles.
I'm fairly certain that, in quote and reply format, you are careful
to make proper attributions for any material lifted from previous posts.
A copyright message also serves as "proper attribution" whose contents
should not be removed because the copyright message is an annotation.
>> Hadn't you mentioned some "treatened retaliation" ?
> Liar, threatening retaliation for illegal practices does /not/ affect
> Copyright on public domain data.
So somebody was threatening retaliation for your illegal practices?
>> I don't suppose that you have ever discredited competing software?
> Liar, I have never discredited competing software.
> All I've done was put up a comparison, when SmartGo lied and claimed
> it had better "Kombilo" search.
> SmartGo claimed that competing products were inferior (after
> copying my "free" search..). I demonstrated the opposite.
Well, of course it's not necessary to discredit other software, nor
should it be necessary to discredit other programmers even if they
are not direct competitors with you. Still, you do manage to do that.
>> ... The database */as a whole/* is copyright. Which is what a
>> -collection- of games, or an arranged bibliography, amounts to.
> Liar, building a 55,000 game collection containing a tiny subset
> of another database is /not/ a Copyright violation.
If you intersperse the new collection into your own collection
then you are not violating collection copyright. If you strip off the
copyright messages you are in violation of annotation copyright.
You can remove the annotations from a game record however you
should not be removing copyright messages on an entered form.
There's nothing to stop you from including an individual record from
another collection of game records if you rearrange its ordering in
the presentation scheme and retain its original copyright message.
If you source the entered game record from multiple collections
then multiple copyright messages should appear in the annotation.
That way we may easily determine whether a particular game came
from only one collection or if it is found in many separate collections.
Furthermore the contributors to the collections will be accorded due
respect and proper credit. They may themselves be apprised of which
of the particular game record contributions made, to date, are unique.
>>>> So the circumstances required that you do something "unethical" ?
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:49:34 +0200
>> >> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>> >>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
> Liar. Cutting off most of my sentence amounts to a lie.
> I never did anything unethical, neither did I ever said so.
>> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:49:34 +0200
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
It seems to me that talking out of both sides of your mouth is unethical.
>> You don't find exploitation of players without proper compensation
>> unethical?
> Liar, I never claimed that - the opposite - I claimed that GoGoD exploits
> players by selling off and monopilizing their public domain game records.
This travesty by GoGoD excuses your behavior w/r/t misappropriation?
>> ... I observed that it could be done.
> If you keep on "observing", I just might put your name & address
> & a picture of you naked on my frontpage for a week.
> Let's see who'll be "observing" then ;-)
I'll interpret your remark to indicate the threat of cybercrime and
notify the appropriate authorities.
- regards
- jb
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Russia Plans Tighter Banking, Immigration Controls on Georgia
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10289
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Frank de Groot
> If you really believe that the copyright cannot be enforced then you
> have no choice but to leave the copyright message intact in the game
> record.
HAHAHA - pathetic clown!
So if I claim Copyright on the letters a, o, e, u and i, and then I start
writing words like:
Fra<Copyright Frank de Groot, 2006>nk
..and if you rightfully think this is unenforceable, you will feel obliged
to start using my Copyright message every time you use the letter e.
ROTFL
Fucking dipshit.
Frank de Groot
> merely happens to disagree with him.
That is a lie. I clearly demonstrate, at each count, how and why you lied.
> The original game record
> is public domain, but once entering it into a specific electronic
> form and arranging it into a collection that game record becomes
> a "data entry" and, in its collection, it is then part of a
> "database."
Great. You forgot to add that we're talking about a non-Copyrighted
database.
> of text, date, addresse information, and signature block. Another
> reason some electronic game record might be copyright is due
> to the origin of its circumstances: perhaps it was obtained by a
> mechanical recording device in broadcasting circumstances and
> the copyright message on that game record concerns broadcast.
That is a lie. Recordings of an actual event, without extra comments, are
not Copyrigted.
> Of course anyone could take the raw information out of a game
> record and manipulate into a different form, even a similar form, but
> to appropriate whole-hog the undifferentiated electronic record is
> a taking without proper compensation to that record's initiators.
That is a lie. The "record's initiators" have no legal rights on the record.
They are therefore to be remunerated by SELLING those records, not by
LICENCING them, you silly fat fuck.
> The copyright message also indicates attribution and awards
> proper credit to the people who created that form of a game record.
Bullshit. The "form" of the game record is standard SGF without extra's.
Compensation came in the form of one million USD of GoGoD sales over the
past years.
Licensing those records is bullshit, because they do not own rights on them.
Idiot.
> A copyright message also serves as "proper attribution" whose contents
> should not be removed because the copyright message is an annotation.
Listen, creep, if I piss all over your clothes, are you going to launder
them or aren't you?
I can piss as much as I want all over you, but if there is no legal or
ethical reason to keep the pissy garments in a state of pissyness, then
you're free to remove that piss.
I hope it's clear to you now, porkface.
> So somebody was threatening retaliation for your illegal practices?
Liar, I haven't been guilty of illegal practices.
I remind you that YOU asked my help, a few years ago, to crack an eBook.
Which is illegal. I don't do such things. In fact I have an ordner full of
licencing stuff for all the 3rd party software I purchased.
I spent thousands on 3rd party stuff.
> If you intersperse the new collection into your own collection
> then you are not violating collection copyright. If you strip off the
> copyright messages you are in violation of annotation copyright.
Imbecile, it would be a violation to KEEP any Copyright messages, because
they are COPYRIGHTED ANNOTATION.
Even though the only part of the game record that's copyrighted, is the
copyright message itself.
Jeez!!
> You can remove the annotations from a game record however you
> should not be removing copyright messages on an entered form.
Says who? Jeff "Pissface" Boscole?
> There's nothing to stop you from including an individual record from
> another collection of game records if you rearrange its ordering in
> the presentation scheme
There's nothing stopping me from pissing all over you, and the funny part is
that you then won't take a shower afterwards.
> If you source the entered game record from multiple collections
> then multiple copyright messages should appear in the annotation.
If I let my friends piss on you, you are obliged to skip one shower for each
pissing session.
> This travesty by GoGoD excuses your behavior w/r/t misappropriation?
Liar, I did not misappropriate anything. That is a slanderous accusation.
No laws have been broken, no ethics have been violated. On the contrary.
> I'll interpret your remark to indicate the threat of cybercrime
> and
> notify the appropriate authorities.
You're welcome.
I am making preparations to carry out my threat.
Michael Alford
I no longer give a rip what "Frank wrote" (or jb) in any of these
threads. I suggest you both give up flaming each other, and go after
some of the more obvious trolls here. The two of you are obviously two
of the more intelligent, better educated, and more informed people
reading\posting here, so rather than wear each other out, why not go
after the more deserving, such as T Mark Hall and Fu Ren Li? T Mark
Hall is one of the more split-tongued and devious hypocrites I have ever
encountered, and Fu Ren Li is as arrogant in his ignorance as Dubya. "in
my vast experience"? muwahahahah! Fu Ren Li is a legend in his own
mind, and Hall is a proven hypocrite, por exemplo re trolls. I usually
read everything posted here, but recently I've come to scanning and
deleting the interplay between you two. This is sad, that both of you
should elicit such a reaction from one such as I. Give it up. Use your
talents to greater effect.
Yours,
Michael
Frank de Groot
> I no longer give a rip what "Frank wrote" (or jb) in any of these threads.
Then why do you come whining here?
You think we care about you? (hint: No).
> I suggest you both give up flaming each other,
You think we care about you? (hint: No).
> after the more deserving, such as T Mark Hall and Fu Ren Li?
You are presupposing that I like to "go after trolls".
I merely am defending myself against allegations of having commited crimes.
Michael Alford
> "Michael Alford" <ma...@aracnet.com> wrote
>
>> I no longer give a rip what "Frank wrote" (or jb) in any of these threads.
>
> Then why do you come whining here?
> You think we care about you? (hint: No).
Then why respond?
>
>> I suggest you both give up flaming each other,
>
> You think we care about you? (hint: No).
Then why respond?
>
>> after the more deserving, such as T Mark Hall and Fu Ren Li?
>
> You are presupposing that I like to "go after trolls".
> I merely am defending myself against allegations of having commited crimes.
Utter nonsense.
God in Heaven, you are fucking worthless trash...
Yours,
Michael
Frank de Groot
> Utter nonsense.
>
> God in Heaven, you are fucking worthless trash...
You are violating my Copyright on these words.
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> If you really believe that the copyright cannot be enforced
>> then you have no choice but to leave the copyright message
>> intact in the game record.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> So if I claim Copyright on the letters a, o, e, u and i, and then I start
> writing words like: Fra<Copyright Frank de Groot, 2006>nk
> ..and if you rightfully think this is unenforceable, you will feel obliged
> to start using my Copyright message every time you use the letter e.
We are not discussing added copyright messages but deleted
copyright messages. Perhaps a minor though -significant- difference?
Single letters are not subject to copyright and we do not discuss fonts.
If, however, you arrange some letters in a particular way, perhaps a
great number, then a copyright message could apply to them. While
not a single game on this basis, the cumulative labor represented by a
collection of games corresponds to a great number of carefully chosen
alphabetic arrangements, to which may be affixed a seal of copyright.
One basis for copyright message in each of the games stems from a
notion that the individual game had been -extracted- from a collection.
Moreover the copyright asserts that a particular game record, associated
with player names, can not be arbitrarily modified to be something that
it was never intended to be, by those players. So you cannot distort a
game record in a non-factual manner once players are connected to it.
In the instance above I would be violating copyright by -removal- of
the message you have inserted into the text. Once removing it we have
no longer your intended sequence of alphanumeric characters which is
already under a default copyright irrespective of whether copyright was
being claimed. Removal comprises misattribution, which is what you do.
Failure to properly accord credit to another, who did the necessary work,
might in some jurisdictions be interpreted as a case of identity theft.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
>> Frank seems to be in the habit of calling anyone a liar who
>> merely happens to disagree with him.
> That is a lie. I clearly demonstrate, at each count, how and why you lied.
Are we disagreeing now? I don't suppose you can count high
enough to demonstrate or substantiate upon my request for discovery
each of the numerous instances where you have alleged the specious
charge of "lie" or "liar." You did not demonstrate this particular point.
>> The original game record is public domain, but once entering it into
>> a specific electronic form and arranging it into a collection that game
>> record becomes a "data entry" and, in its collection, it is then part
>> of a "database."
> Great. You forgot to add that we're talking about a non-Copyrighted
> database.
Which database was that?
>> ... Another reason some electronic game record might be copyright
>> is due to the origin of its circumstances: perhaps it was obtained by
>> a mechanical recording device in broadcasting circumstances and
>> the copyright message on that game record concerns broadcast.
> That is a lie. Recordings of an actual event, without extra comments,
> are not Copyrigted.
Broadcast copyrights are recognized to persist for a brief duration
after the event of a game broadcast. This can be 24 hours or a week.
Following the expiration of a broadcast copyright, source attribution
is a recognized justification for retaining the unenforceable copyright.
Instead of the sense of "copyright" the sense is "proper accrediting."
>> Of course anyone could take the raw information out of a game
>> record and manipulate into a different form, even a similar form, but
>> to appropriate whole-hog the undifferentiated electronic record is
>> a taking without proper compensation to that record's initiators.
> That is a lie. The "record's initiators" have no legal rights on the record.
> They are therefore to be remunerated by SELLING those records, not
> by LICENCING them, you silly fat fuck.
Records may be licensed. Never heard of the recording industry?
>> The copyright message also indicates attribution and awards
>> proper credit to the people who created that form of a game record.
> Bullshit. The "form" of the game record is standard SGF without extra's.
> Compensation came in the form of one million USD of GoGoD sales over
> the past years.
> Licensing those records is bullshit, because they do not own rights on
> them. Idiot.
You seem to misunderstand the nature of copyright. It does not
expire once reaching a certain threshold of remunerative revenue.
Copyright applies for a certain term, or duration of time, and may be
renewed by the copyright holder until a specific expiration duration.
>> A copyright message also serves as "proper attribution" whose contents
>> should not be removed because the copyright message is an annotation.
-< Frank's pissy fit remarks snorkled >-
>> So somebody was threatening retaliation for your illegal practices?
> Liar, I haven't been guilty of illegal practices.
I did not say you were "guilty of illegal practices." We discussed
the possibility of whether your copyright holding persecutors
might be "threatening retaliation." Instead, you said:
>>> ... threatening retaliation for illegal practices does /not/
>>> affect Copyright on public domain data.
What was your basis for including the phrase "illegal practices" ?
> I remind you that YOU asked my help, a few years ago, to crack an eBook.
No. I hadn't asked for your help. I was asking if you knew of any
way or method to remove restrictions and/or decrypt Adobe *.pdf. I was
facing a purchasing decision and sought second and third opinions.
All of this occurred after the case in San Jose abandoned prosecution.
> Which is illegal. I don't do such things. In fact I have an ordner
> full of licencing stuff for all the 3rd party software I purchased.
> I spent thousands on 3rd party stuff.
Decryption is clearly not illegal. See if you can locate public
domain factoring software which can process a 126 digit number.
Entirely legal to distribute factorizing programs for 125 digits or less.
After huffing & puffing for several days PARI abended on Tromp 17x17.
My mundane PC performs to the standards of 1980s Cray Machines
however the outstanding RSA money challenges are still unclaimed
so if vendors wish to implement proper encryption all they need do
is obtain sufficient rigor. Attempted cracking is, today, a no-brainer.
By the way, Hezbollah did not `crack' the Israeli secret codes. They
were -handed- the deciphering keys by a double-agent on the inside.
Unsurprisingly, Hezbollah's night-vision nods are of British manufacture.
>> If you intersperse the new collection into your own collection
>> then you are not violating collection copyright. If you strip off the
>> copyright messages you are in violation of annotation copyright.
> Imbecile, it would be a violation to KEEP any Copyright messages,
> because they are COPYRIGHTED ANNOTATION.
Nope. The copyright holder -WANTS- you to retain all copyright
messages. Furthermore the law agrees with the copyright holder.
> Even though the only part of the game record that's copyrighted,
> is the copyright message itself.
If the copyright message is part of the game record then you
certainly cannot remove it. Players may have inserted that copyright.
However you may freely redistribute the game record by keeping
the copyright message intact and put it to use in any viable manner.
The subsidiary annotations fall under an independent copyright,
i.e. the game record could have (say) a broadcast copyright while
the commentary added into the game record is under a separate
copyright construction.
>> You can remove the annotations from a game record however you
>> should not be removing copyright messages on an entered form.
-< Frank's pissy fit remarks snorkled >-
>> There's nothing to stop you from including an individual record from
>> another collection of game records if you rearrange its ordering in
>> the presentation scheme
> There's nothing stopping me from pissing all over you, and the
> funny part is that you then won't take a shower afterwards.
I unfamiliar with your traditional Norwegian customs, to be sure,
however I do recall that Marines might piss on their hands to wash 'em.
>> If you source the entered game record from multiple collections
>> then multiple copyright messages should appear in the annotation.
> If I let my friends piss on you, you are obliged to skip one shower
> for each pissing session.
However the -ordering- of those multiple copyright messages can
present an issue so, in your shoes, I would retain a Hollywood attorney.
>> This travesty by GoGoD excuses your behavior w/r/t misappropriation?
> Liar, I did not misappropriate anything. That is a slanderous accusation.
> No laws have been broken, no ethics have been violated. On the contrary.
Nevertheless, you are a self-admitted Ethics Violator...
>> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:49:34 +0200
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
>> I'll interpret your remark to indicate the threat of cybercrime and
>> notify the appropriate authorities.
> You're welcome.
> I am making preparations to carry out my threat.
Would you please also monitor your bandwidth statistics?
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------------
UK: Blair Clone Leads Conservative Party
Hoping to 'bury old taboos,' David Cameron supports sodomy, Zionism, EU
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10288
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Frank de Groot
> copyright messages.
Liar. You accused me of wrongfully deleting an ADDED Copyright message.
The issue is that ADDING a Copyright message to non-Copyrighted material is
silly.
Frank de Groot
> great number, then a copyright message could apply to them.
And if my aunt would have a dick, it would have been my uncle.
Frank de Groot
> collection of games corresponds to a great number of carefully chosen
> alphabetic arrangements, to which may be affixed a seal of copyright.
By whom? By you? You think anyone gives a hoot about what YOU "may affix"?
(Hint: No).
Frank de Groot
> notion that the individual game had been -extracted- from a
> collection.
> Moreover the copyright asserts that a particular game record,
> associated
> with player names, can not be arbitrarily modified to be something
> that
> it was never intended to be, by those players.
Are you making this shit up all by yourself?
Frank de Groot
> of
> the message you have inserted into the text.
That's insane. You are severely delusional, my friend.
Frank de Groot
> do.
LIAR!
The game is played by the players and I DO NOT REMOVE THE PLAYER'S NAMES.
Frank de Groot
> work,
> might in some jurisdictions be interpreted as a case of identity
> theft.
Imbecile, Identity theft is pretending that you are someone else (usually
with intent to do malice).
Frank de Groot
> duration
> after the event of a game broadcast. This can be 24 hours or a week.
Liar. There is no such law.
Frank de Groot
Liar!
A game record is NOT the same as a SONG record.
A game record is legally a recording of a histori event, a music record is a
creative work.
Frank de Groot
How much money did were YOU awarded, after YOU had to instruct YOUR lawyer
about Copyright?
Hm?
> It does not
> expire once reaching a certain threshold of remunerative revenue.
Liar!
GoGoD does NOT hold Copyright on non-copyrightable public domain data.
Frank de Groot
> any
> way or method to remove restrictions and/or decrypt Adobe *.pdf. I
> was
> facing a purchasing decision and sought second and third opinions.
Liar!
I have your emails telling me that it's in the process of decrypting!
And I also have your email telling me that this naked person IS in fact you.
Frank de Groot
LIAR!
Frank de Groot
> messages. Furthermore the law agrees with the copyright holder.
Liar.
GoGod does not HOLD any copyright on those games.
> If the copyright message is part of the game record then you
> certainly cannot remove it.
Imbecile, do you think that Go Seigen, when he finishes a game, scribbles a
"Copyright GoGoD" message on the Goban?
Hm?
Frank de Groot
> >>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
Liar, I never said that. I said only 20% of that.
> Would you please also monitor your bandwidth statistics?
I interpret this as you admitting to plan/ or do a DDOS attack on my
website.
That is a federal offence in the US.
My hosting provider will take steps to inform the police, I will provide
them with your home address.
Bantari
Michael Alford wrote:
> Utter nonsense.
As usual, Malf, you are strong on wording and very, very short of
content.
Lol.
______________
-Bantari
http://www.bantari.net/
-
>> We are not discussing added copyright messages but deleted
>> copyright messages.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Liar. You accused me of wrongfully deleting an ADDED Copyright
> message. The issue is that ADDING a Copyright message
> to non-Copyrighted material is silly.
Until a court determines that it's silly perhaps it is prudent to
retain the "silly" copyright message. Then you're not in violation.
>> If, however, you arrange some letters in a particular way, perhaps a
>> great number, then a copyright message could apply to them.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> And if my aunt would have a dick, it would have been my uncle.
I have no doubt that this may, indeed, have been what has occurred.
>> ... the cumulative labor represented by a
>> collection of games corresponds to a great number of carefully chosen
>> alphabetic arrangements, to which may be affixed a seal of copyright.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> By whom? By you? You think anyone gives a hoot about what YOU
> "may affix"? (Hint: No).
In the first place, under the law it is not even necessary to affix
the proper term "copyright" in order to secure a copyright. Many
people do, nevertheless, perhaps to politely remind others of what
the law says concerning protections for creative works. Too easily
they obtain a misimpression that anything "out there" is for the taking.
Furthermore the copyright message may also contain a date and a
person to contact. In this fashion we may learn immediately when
a copyright could be expected to expire and whom to contact if any
concern over publication, or proposal for licensing, should develop.
Strictly speaking we do not even require the copyright message, but
if there is no copyright message then we do not know whether the
copyright on that particular message has expired or not. Moreover
we would not have proper attribution affixed where it is necessary to
distinguish the owner of one creative work from the owner of others.
The person who affixes a seal of copyright to a creative work is,
of course, the author of that work, or their agent or special delegate,
or coutesy by an editor sufficiently knowledgeable about the author
to render the proper attribution. Generally this may be done by means
of a small ceremony where candles are burned at an altar and where
the blood sacrifice of a small goat may be poured upon chicken entrails.
>> One basis for copyright message in each of the games stems from a
>> notion that the individual game had been -extracted- from a collection.
>> Moreover the copyright asserts that a particular game record, associated
>> with player names, can not be arbitrarily modified to be something that
>> it was never intended to be, by those players.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> Are you making this shit up all by yourself?
I confess to learning the hard way when Chris Garlock chewed me out for
entering fantasy moves when reconstructing the catch-up position of one
tournament game in progress for server broadcast, US Go Congress 2005.
>> In the instance above I would be violating copyright by -removal- of
>> the message you have inserted into the text.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> That's insane. You are severely delusional, my friend.
Evidently my standards of honesty exceed yours,
and not just by a small smidgen.
>> Removal comprises misattribution, which is what you do.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> The game is played by the players and I DO NOT REMOVE THE PLAYER'S NAMES.
Yet you gleefully remove the copyright message, and quite possibly
the name, of the game recorder to whom players would refer when they
have reached the point of desperation when attempting to reconstruct a
disturbed game? Moreover you blithely remove the copyright message
of the game sponsor, to whom the attention of the players is directed,
who enables the special event, AND WHO MIGHT HAVE MORE GAMES OF A
SIMILAR NATURE IF ONLY WE HAD THE RESEARCH ON THESE SOURCES !!!
You remove the source of the record, when removing a copyright message,
and thereby you compromise the efforts of history scholars worldwide.
>> Failure to properly accord credit to another, who did the necessary work,
>> might in some jurisdictions be interpreted as a case of identity theft.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Imbecile, Identity theft is pretending that you are someone else
> (usually with intent to do malice).
What shall we say of game records professing to be in a MoyoGo
database whose true identities were snatched from SmartGo or GoGoD?
>> Broadcast copyrights are recognized to persist for a brief duration
>> after the event of a game broadcast. This can be 24 hours or a week.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> Liar. There is no such law.
Results 1 - 100 of about 730 for "broadcast copyright". (0.37 seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=100&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=broadcast+copyright&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images
>> Records may be licensed. Never heard of the recording industry?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> A game record is NOT the same as a SONG record.
This is true. However -many- game records can be a "collection."
> A game record is legally a recording of a histori event,
> a music record is a creative work.
Nah, you're just saying this because you don't play Go.
Pros will explain the difference between human play and that
of machines as due to the ... (drum roll) ... "creativity" factor !!!
>> You seem to misunderstand the nature of copyright.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> How much money did were YOU awarded, after YOU had to instruct
> YOUR lawyer about Copyright? Hm?
I can't imagine why you would surround yourself with such lawyers.
How much money did YOUR lawyer pay YOU for your copyright lessons?
>> It does not expire once reaching a certain threshold of remunerative revenue.
> GoGoD does NOT hold Copyright on non-copyrightable public domain data.
The point at discussion concerned whether the copyright would expire
once a copyright holder had crossed a certain threshold of remuneration.
>> No. I hadn't asked for your help. I was asking if you knew of any
>> way or method to remove restrictions and/or decrypt Adobe *.pdf. I was
>> facing a purchasing decision and sought second and third opinions.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> I have your emails telling me that it's in the process of decrypting!
If that's the case then why would I need to ask for your help?
Besides, the decryption time was typically under 15 seconds and that's
not enough time for me to type and email and send it to you. You might
take a clue from the decryption time just how solid and serious Adobe
was trying to be when "locking up" their restrictions on some PDFs.
> And I also have your email telling me that this naked person IS in fact you.
It's not, so I was pulling your leg. I remember telling you already.
>> Decryption is clearly not illegal.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> LIAR!
What did you say? I can't quite make it out ... :-)
>> Nope. The copyright holder -WANTS- you to retain all copyright
>> messages. Furthermore the law agrees with the copyright holder.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> GoGod does not HOLD any copyright on those games.
That may be so, however GoGoD may want you to retain all of its
game record copyright messages. Furthermore the law agrees that
GoGoD may want you to retain all its game record copyright messages.
>> If the copyright message is part of the game record then you
>> certainly cannot remove it.
> Imbecile, do you think that Go Seigen, when he finishes a game,
> scribbles a "Copyright GoGoD" message on the Goban? Hm?
No, I should rather think he would inscribe "to my beloved friends and
mentors T. Mark Hall, Nick Wedd, Charles Matthews, and Allixon Bexfield."
>> >> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>> >>> I said that I did something "unethical" ...
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> Liar, I never said that. I said only 20% of that.
Actually, you said 500% of 20% of that ... and more !!!
>> Would you please also monitor your bandwidth statistics?
> I interpret this as you admitting to plan/ or do a DDOS attack on my
> website.
> That is a federal offence in the US.
> My hosting provider will take steps to inform the police, I will provide
> them with your home address.
If I did a DDOS attack wouldn't I be able to monitor your statistics? I
will inform my police that your police are acting on your false witness.
And I will provide them with the GPS coordinates of your sheep factory.
Got a bit repetitive with the "send" key that time, did you? :-)
- regards
- jb
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Catalonia Legalizes Wiggers
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10285
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Frank de Groot
> Until a court determines that it's silly perhaps it is prudent to
> retain the "silly" copyright message. Then you're not in violation.
The world is divided in "ignorant asses with an opinion" like yourself, and
in that case, little misinformed/fearful you can go ahead and leave whatever
text in a non-copyrighted game record.
I, on the other hand, are not in the "ignorant asses with an opinion" camp,
I - it sounds crazy to you - actually INFORM myself as to the legality of my
actions before I do something. I know it sounds insane, but here ya go.
> In the first place, under the law it is not even necessary to
> affix
> the proper term "copyright" in order to secure a copyright.
Liar, I never claimed it was.
> people do, nevertheless, perhaps to politely remind others of what
> the law says concerning protections for creative works.
Liar, copying a game record 1::1 is NOT a creative work.
It's cumbersome but it's NOT a creative work. And it is NOT copyrighted,
liar.
> Evidently my standards of honesty exceed yours,
> and not just by a small smidgen.
Evidently the standard of what you stuff into your face doesn't.
> Yet you gleefully remove the copyright message,
Because it pollutes the game record with a lie.
> the name, of the game recorder to whom players would refer when they
> have reached the point of desperation when attempting to reconstruct a
> disturbed game?
Liar, I do not use disturbed games.
> You remove the source of the record, when removing a copyright
> message,
> and thereby you compromise the efforts of history scholars worldwide.
They can history-scolar all they want, I am in the business of compiling the
biggest and the best Go pro game record collection.
And I can guarantee you that as soon as GoGoD and SmartGo and GoBase find a
way to rip MY game collection off (I have worked the past week 18 hours/day
to improve upon it) - they will do so immediately.
Because we all know what this dispute is all about. Money, power and
prestige. Not "ethics" and least of all copyright.
> What shall we say of game records professing to be in a MoyoGo
> database whose true identities were snatched from SmartGo or GoGoD?
Imbecile, a game record doesn't HAVE an "identity". A game record is a
recording of an historic event.
Who recorded it is irrelevant, and GoGoD or SmartGo sure as HELL didn't do
it.
They BOUGHT the records. Either in the form of a file (SmartGo), or in the
form of antique Go books (GoGoD).
Both PAY for the record, TRANSMOGRIFY it, and GET PAID for their
transmogrifications.
And that's it. No Copyright involved.
I, in turn, take whatever I find and add MY efforts it, and I will in turn
sell a huge game collection.
And my collection will be added to other games etc. until we gabe the entire
Nihon kiin collection, in romanized, japanese, chinese and korean
transliterations of player's names, international ID codes, rankings, UFT-8
format etc.
A great addition to the Go community. Especially to the software-developing
part.
> This is true. However -many- game records can be a "collection."
..which are NOT copyrighted.
And last time I checked, SmartGo was NOT in the EU, so neither applies
hypothetical database protection.
Hypothetical, because abuse of a monopoly position voids the EU database
directive as it applies to GoGoD.
> Nah, you're just saying this because you don't play Go.
You have to come with stronger "arguments", piss gargling faggot.
> If that's the case then why would I need to ask for your help?
> Besides, the decryption time was typically under 15 seconds and that's
> not enough time for me to type and email and send it to you.
You told me that it had been crunching for a day already, liar.
> It's not, so I was pulling your leg. I remember telling you already.
So you admit you told me so. Earlier you denied this.
I bet you look even worse in reality.
> That may be so, however GoGoD may want you to retain all of its
> game record copyright messages.
I can't possibly take into consideration what those piss gargling faggots
may want.
> Furthermore the law agrees that
> GoGoD may want you to retain all its game record copyright messages.
Yes. The law agrees that someone "may want" something.
And that's all it "agrees" upon. Freedom of thought. But nothing else.
GoGoD can "want" all they want, it ain't suddenly gonna result in a Berne
Convention amendment.
>>> If the copyright message is part of the game record then you
>>> certainly cannot remove it.
Liar, Go players 200 years ago did not affix "Copyright GoGoD" messages to
their moves.
Q.E.D. Game records don't have copyright messages. There IS no copyright on
game records.
Read the Law.
> If I did a DDOS attack wouldn't I be able to monitor your statistics?
> I
> will inform my police that your police are acting on your false
> witness.
> And I will provide them with the GPS coordinates of your sheep
> factory.
> Got a bit repetitive with the "send" key that time, did you? :-)
You are at the disadvantage that you live in a fascist police state run by a
military junta.
You have just threatened an international cyber terrorism crime - I hope my
bandwidth will go up at least one standard deviation.
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Until a court determines that it's silly perhaps it is prudent to
>> retain the "silly" copyright message. Then you're not in violation.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> The world is divided in "ignorant asses with an opinion" like yourself,
> and in that case, little misinformed/fearful you can go ahead and leave
> whatever text in a non-copyrighted game record.
>
> I, on the other hand, are not in the "ignorant asses with an opinion" camp,
> I - it sounds crazy to you - actually INFORM myself as to the legality of my
> actions before I do something. I know it sounds insane, but here ya go.
Sorry, I don't subscribe to any "divided world" theory. Try again?
>> In the first place, under the law it is not even necessary to affix
>> the proper term "copyright" in order to secure a copyright.
> Liar, I never claimed it was.
I never said that you claimed it was.
>> ... people do, nevertheless, perhaps to politely remind others
>> of what the law says concerning protections for creative works.
> Liar, copying a game record 1::1 is NOT a creative work.
> It's cumbersome but it's NOT a creative work. And it is NOT
> copyrighted, liar.
In a sense pro games -were- the result of "creative work" but we
are not here working with that sense of copyright protections for raw
game records. Instead the "creative work" consisted of converting
those raw game records into (usable) electronic *.sgf for computability.
Nonetheless, the Japanese do wish to associate copyright with the
game record, so there is something to be said for due honor and
respect when taking pro games from those Japanese game records.
Japanese media and sponsors appreciate the recognition and credit
when attributions, via a copyright message, are being preserved.
Can you recall your anguish when SL removed your banner ads?
When the situation is on the other foot it seems that you have two
left feet.
>> Evidently my standards of honesty exceed yours,
>> and not just by a small smidgen.
> Evidently the standard of what you stuff into your face doesn't.
And, pray tell, perhaps you can document what that might be?
>> Yet you gleefully remove the copyright message,
> Because it pollutes the game record with a lie.
There's no lie in the attribution carried with a copyright message.
>> ... the name, of the game recorder to whom players would refer
>> when they have reached the point of desperation when attempting
>> to reconstruct a disturbed game?
> Liar, I do not use disturbed games.
I don't suppose that you can prove a negative.
>> You remove the source of the record, when removing a copyright message,
>> and thereby you compromise the efforts of history scholars worldwide.
> They can history-scolar all they want, I am in the business of compiling
> the biggest and the best Go pro game record collection.
How can it be the best when you have stripped all source attributions?
> And I can guarantee you that as soon as GoGoD and SmartGo and GoBase
> find a way to rip MY game collection off (I have worked the past week
> 18 hours/day to improve upon it) - they will do so immediately.
>
> Because we all know what this dispute is all about. Money, power and
> prestige. Not "ethics" and least of all copyright.
At the end of the day, the dispute is about fame and whose name survives.
>> What shall we say of game records professing to be in a MoyoGo
>> database whose true identities were snatched from SmartGo or GoGoD?
> Imbecile, a game record doesn't HAVE an "identity". A game record is a
> recording of an historic event. Who recorded it is irrelevant, and GoGoD
> or SmartGo sure as HELL didn't do it. They BOUGHT the records. Either in
> the form of a file (SmartGo), or in the form of antique Go books (GoGoD).
> Both PAY for the record, TRANSMOGRIFY it, and GET PAID for their
> transmogrifications.
Well, if they BOUGHT the records, what result do you expect from
a copyright lawsuit when it is proved that you STOLE what they BOUGHT?
> And that's it. No Copyright involved.
The records were associated with a certain market value once it is
established that they were BOUGHT and SOLD. Now we speak of THEFT.
> I, in turn, take whatever I find and add MY efforts it, and I will in turn
> sell a huge game collection. And my collection will be added to other
> games etc. until we gabe the entire Nihon kiin collection, in romanized,
> japanese, chinese and korean transliterations of player's names, international ID
> codes, rankings, UFT-8 format etc.
Yet no source attributions for verifying the manner in which alleged
games were being acquired and no way to verify the veracity of sources?
> A great addition to the Go community. Especially to the
> software-developing part.
Nyquist noise will defeat statistical extraction. Only a program by
the highest creative intelligence will stand any chance of improvement.
>> This is true. However -many- game records can be a "collection."
> ..which are NOT copyrighted.
> And last time I checked, SmartGo was NOT in the EU, so neither applies
> hypothetical database protection.
> Hypothetical, because abuse of a monopoly position voids the EU database
> directive as it applies to GoGoD.
The arrangement within a collection forms the copyright. The
collective effort to produce a collection forms a value which may be
BOUGHT or SOLD. You admit PURCHASING many games and yet
you did not PURCHASE the misappropriation from SmartGo or GoGoD.
>> Nah, you're just saying this because you don't play Go.
> You have to come with stronger "arguments", piss gargling faggot.
Apparently you are trying to persuade high-level Go Game Players
that "creativity" is not a factor when navigating a winning solution ?
>> If that's the case then why would I need to ask for your help?
>> Besides, the decryption time was typically under 15 seconds and that's
>> not enough time for me to type an email and send it to you.
> You told me that it had been crunching for a day already, liar.
I don't have any PDF examples where all-day crunching was required.
You might have me confused with somebody else or with another problem.
Perhaps we put this to a test? Have you a particularly difficult PDF ?
>> It's not, so I was pulling your leg. I remember telling you already.
> So you admit you told me so. Earlier you denied this.
> I bet you look even worse in reality.
I can't recall denying it. All I said was that it's not true. I was
curious how easily duped you are and it seems you are dupable.
It seems that how other males "look" is, for you, a -pressing- priority ?
>> That may be so, however GoGoD may want you to retain all of its
>> game record copyright messages.
> I can't possibly take into consideration what those piss gargling faggots
> may want.
You -already- took it under consideration, but then rejected it.
>>>> If the copyright message is part of the game record then you
>>>> certainly cannot remove it.
> Liar, Go players 200 years ago did not affix "Copyright GoGoD"
> messages to their moves. Q.E.D. Game records don't have copyright
> messages. There IS no copyright on game records. Read the Law.
They didn't -need- to affix copyright messages because Japanese
Law provided for copyrights on games. Oh, I forgot: Read the Law.
>> If I did a DDOS attack wouldn't I be able to monitor your statistics? I
>> will inform my police that your police are acting on your false witness.
>> And I will provide them with the GPS coordinates of your sheep factory.
>> Got a bit repetitive with the "send" key that time, did you? :-)
> You are at the disadvantage that you live in a fascist police state run
> by a military junta.
> You have just threatened an international cyber terrorism crime -
> I hope my bandwidth will go up at least one standard deviation.
To make a police report you need more than just high bandwidth. Was
there some special reason you wanted to raise up your standard deviation?
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Congressman Apologizes, Denies Assaulting Mistress
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10281
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> Sorry, I don't subscribe to any "divided world" theory. Try
> again?
Whatever your religion, it neither changes the facts, nor the Law.
> I never said that you claimed it was.
Liar.
> game records. Instead the "creative work" consisted of converting
> those raw game records into (usable) electronic *.sgf for
> computability.
Liar - that is /not/ a creative work. That's a cumbersome and boring COPYING
job.
0% creativity, 100% copying.
> Nonetheless, the Japanese do wish to associate copyright with the
> game record,
LIAR!
In Japan there is no such thing as copyright on Go game records.
Japan signed the Berne convention and nobody doubts that the rule of law in
Japan with regard to copyright law is the same as anywhere else.
> respect when taking pro games from those Japanese game records.
> Japanese media and sponsors appreciate the recognition and credit
> when attributions, via a copyright message, are being preserved.
This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
They are considered to be SCUM there. Game-record-stealing SCUM.
Ironic, isn't it? Because of course GoGoD should be free to do what they do
(except monopolizing by bullying of course).
So you have no argument - again.
> Can you recall your anguish when SL removed your banner ads?
Nope. You are a liar. I did not feel fear, I felt anger.
Anguish = fear, you illiterate monkey. I felt anger, not fear.
> When the situation is on the other foot it seems that you have two
> left feet.
Liar - my community ads did NOT violate anybody's copyright!
> There's no lie in the attribution carried with a copyright
> message.
Liar - there is no copyright on game records -claiming there /is/, is
therefore a LIE.
> How can it be the best when you have stripped all source attributions?
Liar - I never remove any sources. The players' name and the event and the
round and the date are PRESERVED.
> At the end of the day, the dispute is about fame and whose name
> survives.
I don't care - my goal is to be an independent Go programmer, that's all.
> Well, if they BOUGHT the records, what result do you expect from
> a copyright lawsuit when it is proved that you STOLE what they BOUGHT?
IMBECILE, ***LIAR**
If you buy some ambient air to breathe, and I don't, am I "stealing"?!
YOU CAN'T STEAL THAT WHAT DOES NOT BELONG TO ANYONE.
> The records were associated with a certain market value once it
> is
> established that they were BOUGHT and SOLD. Now we speak of THEFT.
What's the market value of ambient air?
Friggin' moron.
> Yet no source attributions for verifying the manner in which
> alleged
> games were being acquired and no way to verify the veracity of
> sources?
The games were aquired by me. I am the source.
I aquired them by copying them from other copiers.
> Nyquist noise will defeat statistical extraction. Only a program
> by
> the highest creative intelligence will stand any chance of
> improvement.
Liar! I never said my Go playing program will use Go game records for
significant playing strength.
I siad it will use more traditional methods.
> The arrangement within a collection forms the copyright.
Liar!
> Apparently you are trying to persuade high-level Go Game Players
> that "creativity" is not a factor when navigating a winning solution ?
Liar!
GoGoD did *** NOT *** play those Go games themselves!!
>> I can't possibly take into consideration what those
>> may want.
>
>
> You -already- took it under consideration, but then rejected it.
Because I didn't know yet that they were piss gargling faggots.
> They didn't -need- to affix copyright messages because Japanese
> Law provided for copyrights on games. Oh, I forgot: Read the Law.
LIAR - There is no Japanese special amendment to the Berne Convention!
Furthermore, you stinking piece of scum - GoGoD did not play those games, so
if ANYONE is in violation, it's GoGoD.
> To make a police report you need more than just high bandwidth. Was
> there some special reason you wanted to raise up your standard
> deviation?
You threatened a terror attack on a website.
If the attack indeed happens, we know where to find you.
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry, I don't subscribe to any "divided world" theory. Try again?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Whatever your religion, it neither changes the facts, nor the Law.
Ok, so the Law doesn't subscribe to any "divided world" theory. Capiche?
>> I never said that you claimed it was.
> Liar.
Better have an authentic quote for this one because you -lost- it.
>> ... Instead the "creative work" consisted of converting
>> those raw game records into (usable) electronic *.sgf for computability.
> Liar - that is /not/ a creative work. That's a cumbersome and boring
> COPYING job. 0% creativity, 100% copying.
A work does not need to be creative by -your- definition to be
considered a "creative work." I can shake a paintbrush on a white
canvas, sign a name to it, frame it, and now it's a creative work of art.
Lint-checking for accuracy is cumbersome and not always an easy task.
There is certainly much work involved because a collection takes years.
>> Nonetheless, the Japanese do wish to associate copyright with the
>> game record,
> In Japan there is no such thing as copyright on Go game records.
> Japan signed the Berne convention and nobody doubts that the rule of
> law in Japan with regard to copyright law is the same as anywhere else.
The Berne convention applies only for international copyrights.
>> Japanese media and sponsors appreciate the recognition and credit
>> when attributions, via a copyright message, are being preserved.
> This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
> They are considered to be SCUM there. Game-record-stealing SCUM.
> Ironic, isn't it? Because of course GoGoD should be free to do what
> they do (except monopolizing by bullying of course).
How do the sales of MoyoGo fare in Japan? Why should GoGoD
be capable of dictating its terms to the Japanese Diet (parliament)?
>> Can you recall your anguish when SL removed your banner ads?
> Nope. You are a liar. I did not feel fear, I felt anger.
> Anguish = fear, you illiterate monkey. I felt anger, not fear.
Neither fear nor anger are listed among OED's definitions & citations:
======================
anguish, n. -( Oxford English Dictionary )-
Formerly with pl.
1. Excruciating or oppressive bodily pain or suffering, such
as the sufferer writhes under.
2. Severe mental suffering, excruciating or oppressive grief or distress.
3. anguish of weathering: stress of weather. Obs.
4. Comb., as anguish-stricken, -torn.
======================
You've been using the term "liar" repeatedly, however you have
not established even a -single- instance of "liar." You said you were
going to do so and you neglected to do anything of the sort. Can your
customers trust that you are a man of your word? Your stats are low.
>> When the situation is on the other foot it seems that you have two
>> left feet.
> Liar - my community ads did NOT violate anybody's copyright!
The issue there concerns attribution for MoyoGo via community ads.
A parallel issue concerns attribution for game source info via copyright
message information that you savagely and willfully -stripped- away.
>> There's no lie in the attribution carried with a copyright message.
> Liar - there is no copyright on game records -claiming there /is/, is
> therefore a LIE.
If it pleases you, you may remove the word "copyright." It is not
a necessary word for establishing the copyright and I think you will
find it a suitable compromise from your perspective while you manage
to conform to the law, and other such things as normative etiquette.
>> How can it be the best when you have stripped all source attributions?
> Liar - I never remove any sources. The players' name and the event and the
> round and the date are PRESERVED.
Who were the recorders, referees, sponsors, and data-entry technicians?
If there is potential compensation as the result of broadcasting or sales
then we would like to know how to find the project facilitators involved.
>> At the end of the day, the dispute is about fame and whose name survives.
> I don't care - my goal is to be an independent Go programmer, that's all.
There are lots of independent Go programmers who don't engage in dispute.
>> Well, if they BOUGHT the records, what result do you expect from
>> a copyright lawsuit when it is proved that you STOLE what they BOUGHT?
> IMBECILE, ***LIAR**
> If you buy some ambient air to breathe, and I don't, am I "stealing"?!
> YOU CAN'T STEAL THAT WHAT DOES NOT BELONG TO ANYONE.
Let's examine why you might buy "air to breathe." Perhaps you need
special air, such as oxygen, or you need air filters or air purifiers?
>> The records were associated with a certain market value once it is
>> established that they were BOUGHT and SOLD. Now we speak of THEFT.
> What's the market value of ambient air?
I think we are speaking of the market value of bottled oxygen.
>> Yet no source attributions for verifying the manner in which alleged
>> games were being acquired and no way to verify the veracity of sources?
> The games were aquired by me. I am the source.
> I aquired them by copying them from other copiers.
So if you obtain them on the black market that makes it `ok' ?
Does the black market properly credit who has done the data entry?
>> Nyquist noise will defeat statistical extraction. Only a program by
>> the highest creative intelligence will stand any chance of improvement.
> Liar! I never said my Go playing program will use Go game records for
> significant playing strength.
> I siad it will use more traditional methods.
Well, perhaps you were not referring to significant playing strength
when you bragged that MoyoGo was emulating pro behavior to some
level of statistical significance, for its first 25-or-so moves. On the
other hand "traditional methods" are being tried already and they
haven't shown as much promise as initially hoped.
>> The arrangement within a collection forms the copyright.
> Liar!
If the arrangement takes time to compose it is also a "creative work."
A certain arrangement of I-Ching hexagrams is credited to a personage.
Even with expired copyright, the -attribution- still remains in place.
You cannot rearrange those I-Ching hexagrams and continue trying
to falsely credit that particular personage, as being not true to facts.
>> Apparently you are trying to persuade high-level Go Game Players
>> that "creativity" is not a factor when navigating a winning solution ?
> GoGoD did *** NOT *** play those Go games themselves!!
You're getting derailed. We are speaking of the recording industry
and whether records in the form of game collections may be licensed.
>> They didn't -need- to affix copyright messages because Japanese
>> Law provided for copyrights on games. Oh, I forgot: Read the Law.
> LIAR - There is no Japanese special amendment to the Berne Convention!
This reference concerned historical Japanese law prior to Berne.
> Furthermore, you stinking piece of scum - GoGoD did not play those
> games, so if ANYONE is in violation, it's GoGoD.
I am fairly confident that GoGoD conforms to the Berne Convention.
I am -not- fairly confident that MoyoGo obtains a similar confirmation.
>> To make a police report you need more than just high bandwidth. Was
>> there some special reason you wanted to raise up your standard deviation?
> You threatened a terror attack on a website.
> If the attack indeed happens, we know where to find you.
I made no such threat at all. Perhaps you will supply your police
with proper citations before you find yourself in jail for false witness?
- regards
- jb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Devil's Advocate: The Chinese Have Guts
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10281
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
>> COPYING job. 0% creativity, 100% copying.
>
>
> A work does not need to be creative by -your- definition to be
> considered a "creative work." I can shake a paintbrush on a white
> canvas, sign a name to it, frame it, and now it's a creative work of
> art.
A digital copy of a sequence of coordinates is NOT a creative work, liar.
Frank de Groot
There is no such thing as "national copyrights".
That's what the Berne convention set out to do, make an internationally
binding law for copyrights.
It defines what is, and what isn't copyrighted, and is internationally
binding, liar.
> How do the sales of MoyoGo fare in Japan? Why should GoGoD
> be capable of dictating its terms to the Japanese Diet (parliament)?
I sold a few copies in Japan. It seems to be rising exponentially, the past
weeks.
> Who were the recorders, referees, sponsors, and data-entry
> technicians?
Let's put the mommies and daddies of the cleaners of the tables too!
(And the coffee lady's sister-in-law)
> There are lots of independent Go programmers who don't engage in
> dispute.
Neither are they threatened and bullied by the established order.
> Let's examine why you might buy "air to breathe." Perhaps you
> need
> special air, such as oxygen, or you need air filters or air purifiers?
A person dies when breathing oxygen. Brain damage ensues after a few hours.
You claim that public domain info is copyrightable. It isn't.
> I think we are speaking of the market value of bottled oxygen.
We are speaking about the legal protection (or the lack thereof) of digital
game records.
There isn't any.
> Well, perhaps you were not referring to significant playing
> strength
> when you bragged that MoyoGo was emulating pro behavior to some
> level of statistical significance, for its first 25-or-so moves.
Liar, it does that throughout the game, especially the first 40 to 60 moves.
> You're getting derailed. We are speaking of the recording industry
> and whether records in the form of game collections may be licensed.
They can't. They are not protected under any law.
> This reference concerned historical Japanese law prior to Berne.
Berne convention made that Japanese law illegal, and that law was
subsequently scrapped (if what you claim is correct, but since you lied 100
times in 48 hours, I doubt it).
So let's call it a lie.
> I am fairly confident that GoGoD conforms to the Berne
> Convention.
Liar - I never said they didn't.
> I am -not- fairly confident that MoyoGo obtains a similar
> confirmation.
I can't help it you're lazy.
-
>>> Liar - that is /not/ a creative work. That's a cumbersome and
>>> boring COPYING job. 0% creativity, 100% copying.
>> A work does not need to be creative by -your- definition to be
>> considered a "creative work." I can shake a paintbrush on a white
>> canvas, sign a name to it, frame it, and now it's a creative work of art.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> A digital copy of a sequence of coordinates is NOT a creative work, liar.
I thought to make it clear that we are using the non-copyrightable
interpretation of game record, unlike the historical Japanese model.
Nevertheless it may be crucial from the perspective of authenticity
and historical accuracy to retain attributions even for non-copyrightable
objects. Moreover, where there is work involved for the packaging of
non-copyrightable objects perhaps it is both prudent and necessary
to retain attributions for the particular source(s), if from collections,
and for any individuals or organizations involved in curator activities.
In the particular -ordering- for a collection, an arrangement itself
may fall under copyright (as with the bibliographical index), and the
criticality of such copyright would, of course, be linked with the work
and special utility involved for arriving at that particular arrangement.
Reduced to absurdity, Frank's interpretation could convert literary
alphanumeric sequences all to a "coordinate based" representation
and then he might claim that copyrights on the original materials were
vitiated. Circumvention of copyright by means of Frank's "end-run"
technique would clearly run afoul of the law. So Frank has misstated
the circumstances, or has not sufficiently articulated a correct premise.
------------------------------------------------
>> The Berne convention applies only for international copyrights.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> There is no such thing as "national copyrights".
Clearly false, because national boundaries are the origin of copyrights.
> That's what the Berne convention set out to do, make an internationally
> binding law for copyrights.
> It defines what is, and what isn't copyrighted, and is internationally
> binding, liar.
No, the Berne convention seeks to obtain international enforcement
of national copyrights by means of reciprocal trade agreements.
>> How do the sales of MoyoGo fare in Japan? Why should GoGoD
>> be capable of dictating its terms to the Japanese Diet (parliament)?
> I sold a few copies in Japan. It seems to be rising exponentially, the
> past weeks.
How can we explain that MoyoGo can sell all or part of GoGoD's
game collection in the country which you say has banned GoGoD ?
>> Who were the recorders, referees, sponsors, and data-entry technicians?
> Let's put the mommies and daddies of the cleaners of the tables too!
> (And the coffee lady's sister-in-law)
These were not personnel present at the scene of game creation,
or creation of the particular data-entry format for the game record.
>> There are lots of independent Go programmers who don't engage in dispute.
> Neither are they threatened and bullied by the established order.
How does one become a member or non-member of the "established order" ?
>> Let's examine why you might buy "air to breathe." Perhaps you need
>>special air, such as oxygen, or you need air filters or air purifiers?
> A person dies when breathing oxygen. Brain damage ensues after a few
> hours. You claim that public domain info is copyrightable. It isn't.
People can die while doing all sorts of fun things. The brain damage
was due to death, however, not to the breathing of oxygen. I have
not said that all public domain info is copyrightable, though materials
may most definitely be placed into the public domain while retaining
copyright. An earlier example we mentioned was Adobe documents
for distribution ( i.e., http://www.prickly-paradigm.com/catalog.html ).
I also mentioned public domain courseware under various copyright
constructions. Some are GNU-like copyrights; others more restricted.
It is not infeasible to consider that the entered data game-records fall
under a category similar to GNU-like copyrights where the proper
attributions ought to be retained.
>> I think we are speaking of the market value of bottled oxygen.
> We are speaking about the legal protection (or the lack thereof) of
> digital game records. There isn't any.
There is a kind of "legal protection" in the sense that if you use poor
judgment, you make a bad name for yourself from historical retrospect.
These issues of courtesy and commerce are not really opportunities
for launching a revolution in the arena of "intellectual property." You
won't find sympathy from historians if you stip away useful information.
Of course the game record creators and annotators don't prefer that
you pilfer the commentaries however they do prefer that you retain
accreditations and attributions. You are under no obligation to copy
the word "copyright" in a "copyright message" because this word is
actually -superfluous- to the actual designation of real copyright. If
you examine this situation more -objectively- you will realize that it
is not an issue or dispute concerning copyright. This is an issue that
addresses proper accreditations and attributions: historical sources.
>> Well, perhaps you were not referring to significant playing strength
>> when you bragged that MoyoGo was emulating pro behavior to some
>> level of statistical significance, for its first 25-or-so moves.
> Liar, it does that throughout the game, especially the first 40 to 60 moves.
Of course. I was referencing a statement you made w/r/t an earlier
version of MoyoGo. So now you are referring to a -more- significant
"playing strength" and the -CAUSE- for that -more- significant "playing
strength" was the diligence by which statistical prediction information
was extracted from larger and ever larger collections of game records.
To ignore a feature already cultivated, whether for the "first 25-or-so"
or "first 40-to-60" moves, does injustice to the program tailored for a
task of "playing Go" against human or machine opponents.
>> You're getting derailed. We are speaking of the recording industry
>> and whether records in the form of game collections may be licensed.
> They can't. They are not protected under any law.
Yet licensing may occur, and does occur, irrespective of your opinions.
>> This reference concerned historical Japanese law prior to Berne.
> Berne convention made that Japanese law illegal, and that law was
> subsequently scrapped (if what you claim is correct, but since you
> lied 100 times in 48 hours, I doubt it).
The Berne convention does -not- superceed national copyrights.
It merely provides for standards by which copyrights can be recognized
internationally. Japanese national copyright law, if stricter, is still
enforceable within the boundaries of Japan. The Berne convention
was recently asked to promulgate more rigid constructions for the
95-year copyright law, pushed by owners of classic Hollywood films.
Not all nations in attendance at the recent Berne convention agreed
to the 95-year revision, so there is significant variation among each
of the international attendees as to which provisions of international
copyright they agree with and to which they do not. It is a complex
hodgepodge and not the monolithic oversimplistic agreement you
might wish to imagine.
Certain nations might be granted some lattitude in copyright if
there is a trade concession that they might benefit economically
through a form of industry that exploits loopholes in copyright law.
Though I am not aware of all specifics & details of recent Japanese
copyright law I would expect that it is an ecclectic presentation of
various considerations mixing up the modern with the traditional.
You identified the restriction upon GoGoD sales in Japan, but have
not told us why. Did the Berne convention override Japanese law?
My experience of Japan does not suggest that laws are "scrapped."
Something falls out of vogue temporarily but it may be again revived.
I find it unusually egregious that you are claiming somebody
has lied 100 times, have expressed an intention to prove it in each
instance, yet have done nothing of the sort. In fact you have lied
each time you were claiming that I had lied. You are a liar's liar.
>> I am fairly confident that GoGoD conforms to the Berne Convention.
> Liar - I never said they didn't.
I never said that you said that they didn't.
>> I am -not- fairly confident that MoyoGo obtains a similar confirmation.
> I can't help it you're lazy.
Perhaps maintaining doubt requires more effort than "fair confidence" ?
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
London Mayor Challenges Suspension
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10284
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
Liar, it is not /my/ interpretation, it is the interpretation of
INTERNATIONAL LAW.
> Clearly false, because national boundaries are the origin of
> copyrights.
That is a lie.
The origin of copyright is the originator of the creation of an original
work.
Not a "national boundary".
> No, the Berne convention seeks to obtain international
> enforcement
> of national copyrights by means of reciprocal trade agreements.
Liar.
The Berne convention on Copyright is about Copyright, now about the buying
and selling of apples and pears.
> How can we explain that MoyoGo can sell all or part of GoGoD's
> game collection in the country which you say has banned GoGoD ?
Liar! I never said that Japan has banned GoGoD.
> People can die while doing all sorts of fun things. The brain damage
> was due to death, however, not to the breathing of oxygen.
LIAR!!
Imbecile, you're talking to a dive instructor here.
It's called cardiopulmonary and central nervous system oxygen toxicity.
Breathing pure oxygen kills a person, usually after less than a day.
Cause: Massive brain- and lung damage.
Get your facts straight, punk - or shut your ignorant trap.
> It is not infeasible to consider that the entered data game-records
> fall
> under a category similar to GNU-like copyrights where the proper
> attributions ought to be retained.
You can make up fairy-tale scenarios all you like.
Fortunately, jb is just a fat slob with too much time on his hands - not
someone with any real influence.
> There is a kind of "legal protection" in the sense that if you use
> poor
> judgment, you make a bad name for yourself from historical retrospect.
Liar!
What a few misguided schmucks think is NOT "legal protection"!
> These issues of courtesy and commerce are not really opportunities
> for launching a revolution in the arena of "intellectual property."
> You
> won't find sympathy from historians if you stip away useful
> information.
Oh boy. Now I won't sleep at night!
> Of course the game record creators and annotators don't prefer that
> you pilfer the commentaries however they do prefer that you retain
> accreditations and attributions. You are under no obligation to copy
> the word "copyright" in a "copyright message" because this word is
> actually -superfluous- to the actual designation of real copyright.
Liar, there IS no Copyright message in a game record. It's an /annotation/.
So I strip it, because retaining annotation is a violation of Copyright.
I told you that already, you senile fart.
> Of course. I was referencing a statement you made w/r/t an
> earlier
> version of MoyoGo. So now you are referring to a -more- significant
> "playing strength"
Liar!
My program does NOT play Go!
> and the -CAUSE- for that -more- significant "playing
> strength" was the diligence by which statistical prediction
> information
> was extracted from larger and ever larger collections of game records.
Liar!
It was due to ever increasing improved learning algorithms - and the GoGoD
games actually contributed much less to it than strong contemporary Korean
games (of which I have a quarter of a million). Fucking moron. I told you
this several times already.
> To ignore a feature already cultivated, whether for the "first
> 25-or-so"
> or "first 40-to-60" moves, does injustice to the program tailored for
> a
> task of "playing Go" against human or machine opponents.
Liar!
My program does NOT play Go!
> The Berne convention does -not- superceed national copyrights.
> It merely provides for standards by which copyrights can be recognized
> internationally. Japanese national copyright law, if stricter, is
> still
> enforceable within the boundaries of Japan.
It does NOT protect Go game records - an no expert in Japan disputes that.
This has been often mentioned that there never was a court case, and if it
were, it would likely (according to the experts in Japan that I spoke to)
not result in protection for game records.
> You identified the restriction upon GoGoD sales in Japan,
Liar!
I /never/ said that!
-
>> Reduced to absurdity, Frank's interpretation ...
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Liar, it is not /my/ interpretation, it is the interpretation of
> INTERNATIONAL LAW.
But Frank, what -is- "interntional law" ? Copyrights are governed
by reciprocal trade agreements, not by binding treaties.
>> Clearly false, because national boundaries are the origin of copyrights.
> That is a lie. The origin of copyright is the originator of the creation of
> an original work. Not a "national boundary".
Frank speaks falsely. The origin of copyright is a right extended
to an individual, or individuals, (or agency or corporation) by national
law whose coverage occurs within the borders of that nation. There is
no "inalienable right" to copyright. Established by constitution and/or
statute. For the case of the United States of America (constitution):
"Section 8 - Powers of Congress
[ ... ]
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing
for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right
to their respective Writings and Discoveries; " [ ... ]
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Which -allows- Congress to pass laws regulating the nature of copyright.
If no Constitution, no Congress. If no Congress then no copyright laws.
An originator of a creation is its originator, not an orign of copyright.
As for other countries I imagine that we will find similar constructions.
At the Berne Convention we will find trade agreements among countries
who each have their own respective national laws establishing copyright.
Not the first time Frank speaks falsely. Practically everything Frank
has been claiming on this subtopic is a baldfaced lie. He accuses me
of lying when he is the big liar !!! Straightjackets around the corner?
>> No, the Berne convention seeks to obtain international enforcement
>> of national copyrights by means of reciprocal trade agreements.
> Liar.
> The Berne convention on Copyright is about Copyright, now about
> the buying and selling of apples and pears.
Excuse me, the Berne Convention obtains its executive force by
means of international trade agreements. Yes, Virginia, economic
discussions occur at the periodic Berne Convention conferences.
>> How can we explain that MoyoGo can sell all or part of GoGoD's
>> game collection in the country which you say has banned GoGoD ?
> Liar! I never said that Japan has banned GoGoD.
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote: ( Fri, 06 Oct 2006 )
>>> This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
>> People can die while doing all sorts of fun things. The brain damage
>> was due to death, however, not to the breathing of oxygen.
> LIAR!!
>
> Imbecile, you're talking to a dive instructor here.
> It's called cardiopulmonary and central nervous system oxygen toxicity.
> Breathing pure oxygen kills a person, usually after less than a day.
> Cause: Massive brain- and lung damage.
>
> Get your facts straight, punk - or shut your ignorant trap.
In practice we don't put people on pure oxygen all day. The analogy
for oxygen was introduced in the form of a bottled air, not as an entire
pure oxygen environment. Oxygen therapy is a recognized means
for cardiopulmonary resuscitation, even with hyperbaric chambers.
>> It is not infeasible to consider that the entered data game-records fall
>> under a category similar to GNU-like copyrights where the proper
>> attributions ought to be retained.
> You can make up fairy-tale scenarios all you like.
> Fortunately, jb is just a fat slob with too much time on his hands - not
> someone with any real influence.
Resorting to fantasy _ad_hominem_ when you can't muster argument ?
>> There is a kind of "legal protection" in the sense that if you use poor
>> judgment, you make a bad name for yourself from historical retrospect.
> Liar!
> What a few misguided schmucks think is NOT "legal protection"!
Hmmm. I suppose that the newsgroup archives will bear me out.
>> These issues of courtesy and commerce are not really opportunities
>> for launching a revolution in the arena of "intellectual property." You
>> won't find sympathy from historians if you strip away useful information.
> Oh boy. Now I won't sleep at night!
Ah, yet you neglected to attend to the fact that pursuit of scholarship
in archiving games of Go involves history and journalism acumen.
Which is why John Fairbairn and GoGoD got there before you did.
>> Of course the game record creators and annotators don't prefer that
>> you pilfer the commentaries however they do prefer that you retain
>> accreditations and attributions. You are under no obligation to copy
>> the word "copyright" in a "copyright message" because this word is
>> actually -superfluous- to the actual designation of real copyright.
> Liar, there IS no Copyright message in a game record. It's an /annotation/.
> So I strip it, because retaining annotation is a violation of Copyright.
> I told you that already, you senile fart.
No, the copyright message itself is a different category of annotation.
The word "copyright" informs you that it is a copyright message to be
treated differently than the other commentary annotations. You are
instructed to retain the copyright message, with or without the word
"copyright", yet strip away all specific commentaries and comments.
>> Of course. I was referencing a statement you made w/r/t an earlier
>> version of MoyoGo. So now you are referring to a -more- significant
>> "playing strength"
> Liar!
> My program does NOT play Go!
Once you compare the performance with pro play, you _are_ playing it.
>> ... and the -CAUSE- for that -more- significant "playing strength" was the
>> diligence by which statistical prediction information was extracted from
>> larger and ever larger collections of game records.
> Liar!
> It was due to ever increasing improved learning algorithms - and the
> GoGoD games actually contributed much less to it than strong contemporary
> Korean games (of which I have a quarter of a million). Fucking moron.
> I told you this several times already.
You have just admited that GoGoD games contributed something (albeit
"much less than...") to "ever increasing improved learning algorithms."
>> To ignore a feature already cultivated, whether for the "first 25-or-so"
>> or "first 40-to-60" moves, does injustice to the program tailored for a
>> task of "playing Go" against human or machine opponents.
> Liar!
> My program does NOT play Go!
Sorry about that. It -does- however play the "first 40-to-60" moves,
which we generally acknowledge as being among the most difficult.
>> The Berne convention does -not- superceed national copyrights.
>> It merely provides for standards by which copyrights can be recognized
>> internationally. Japanese national copyright law, if stricter, is still
>> enforceable within the boundaries of Japan.
> It does NOT protect Go game records - an no expert in Japan disputes
> that. This has been often mentioned that there never was a court case,
> and if it were, it would likely (according to the experts in Japan that I
> spoke to) not result in protection for game records.
Well, for some reason you identified the ban on GoGoD's sales in Japan:
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote: ( Fri, 06 Oct 2006 )
>>> This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
So let's have an explanation for this. Could it be GoGoD's appropriation
of game records which the Japanese felt should be under a copyright?
>> You identified the restriction upon GoGoD sales in Japan,
> Liar!
> I /never/ said that!
Rather pitiable/pathetic to watch a fine mind in the throes of crackup:
Let's see if I find that quote again... Oh yes, of course, here it is:
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote: ( Fri, 06 Oct 2006 )
>>> This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
Practically everything Frank says is a lie. He might be schizophrenic !
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Court Temporarily OKs Domestic Spying
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061004/ap_on_re_us/domestic_spying
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> >>> This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
Not by LAW, clown. By "ethics".
Frank de Groot
> scholarship
> in archiving games of Go involves history and journalism acumen.
> Which is why John Fairbairn and GoGoD got there before you did.
Yes, and I paid them 100 USD for my share of their work.
I would have paid a few thousand USD more, if it weren't for their crusade
against me.
Frank de Groot
> annotation.
> The word "copyright" informs you that it is a copyright message to be
> treated differently than the other commentary annotations. You are
> instructed to retain the copyright message, with or without the word
> "copyright", yet strip away all specific commentaries and comments.
Miserable, DISGUSTING slimeball!
T H E R E A R E N O C O P Y R I G H T M E S S A G E S I N T H E
G O G O D C O L L E C T I O N
***Do a search ***
ZERO copyright messages.
Of course not.
Because even those freaks know that claiming that would be an outrage.
Frank de Groot
If I wank off daydreaming about Paris Hilton, am I in fact actually fucking
her?
> You have just admited that GoGoD games contributed something (albeit
> "much less than...") to "ever increasing improved learning
> algorithms."
> Sorry about that. It -does- however play the "first 40-to-60" moves,
> which we generally acknowledge as being among the most difficult.
Liar!
It does NOT play ANY moves.
> So let's have an explanation for this. Could it be GoGoD's
> appropriation
> of game records which the Japanese felt should be under a copyright?
"feeling" does not equal the LAW, freak.
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote: ( Fri, 06 Oct 2006 )
> >>> This is why - ironically - GoGoD is banned from selling in Japan!!
Banned NOT by law, by the DISTRIBUTOR'S CAVING IN TO THE BULLYING OF THE
MEDIA KARTELS
-
>> So let's have an explanation for this. Could it be GoGoD's appropriation
>> of game records which the Japanese felt should be under a copyright?
I suppose this depends on which law in what part of the world.
> [ ... ]
>
> Banned NOT by law, by the DISTRIBUTOR'S CAVING IN TO THE BULLYING
> OF THE MEDIA KARTELS
Indeed, one must be brave to extract information from you. Could we have
just "a bit more detail" as explanation for Japan's banning of GoGoD ?
------------------------------------------------------------
>> Once you compare the performance with pro play, you _are_ playing it.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> If I wank off daydreaming about Paris Hilton, am I in fact actually
> fucking her?
If there is no divided world then everything is phenomenal.
Perhaps you need to explain to us what you mean by the "actual."
------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Sorry about that. It -does- however play the "first 40-to-60" moves,
>> which we generally acknowledge as being among the most difficult.
> Liar!
> It does NOT play ANY moves.
>>> "-" wrote: -( Fri, 06 Oct 2006 )-
>>>> Well, perhaps you were not referring to significant playing
>>>> strength when you bragged that MoyoGo was emulating pro
>>>> behavior to some level of statistical significance, for its first
>>>> 25-or-so moves.
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>> ... it does that throughout the game, especially
>>> the first 40 to 60 moves.
Therefore we have you admitting that MoyoGo emulates pro behavior.
-------------------------------------------------------
>> ... you neglected to attend to the fact that pursuit of scholarship
>> in archiving games of Go involves history and journalism acumen.
>> Which is why John Fairbairn and GoGoD got there before you did.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> Yes, and I paid them 100 USD for my share of their work.
You bought for personal and private use? Did anything on the
wrapper, label, markings, etc., indicate a copyright message? Do
you suppose there is a difference between personal and private use
versus large-scale institutional use and versus market redistribution?
> I would have paid a few thousand USD more, if it weren't for their
> crusade against me.
Why would you need to pay them a few thousand USD more ?
>> No, the copyright message itself is a different category of annotation.
>> The word "copyright" informs you that it is a copyright message to be
>> treated differently than the other commentary annotations. You are
>> instructed to retain the copyright message, with or without the word
>> "copyright", yet strip away all specific commentaries and comments.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
> ... T H E R E A R E N O C O P Y R I G H T M E S S A G E S
> I N T H E G O G O D C O L L E C T I O N
>
> ***Do a search ***
Do a search on what? Do I have the GoGoD collection? This is a
container copyright on a collection, not copyright on individual games.
I was speaking generally, from the above, and not just about GoGoD.
> ZERO copyright messages.
> Of course not.
> Because even those freaks know that claiming that would be an outrage.
We have established from law, nevertheless, that copyright can exist
even without the copyright message. Remember, you can strip away
the word "copyright" and yet, that object may still be under copyright.
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Creationism and Truth
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10287
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> wrapper, label, markings, etc., indicate a copyright message?
Nope. Not that I can see on the disk here. Neither the records themselves.
Their website might have such a message.
> Why would you need to pay them a few thousand USD more ?
Liar - I never said that I /needed/ to pay them anything more.
I said I /would/ have. To keep the businessethical.
They however decided to be unethical. I adapted.
> I was speaking generally, from the above
You could always become a preacher.
> We have established from law, nevertheless, that copyright can
> exist
> even without the copyright message. Remember, you can strip away
> the word "copyright" and yet, that object may still be under
> copyright.
Digital game records are NOT copyrighted when they are not annotated.
-
>> You bought for personal and private use? Did anything on the
>> wrapper, label, markings, etc., indicate a copyright message?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Nope. Not that I can see on the disk here. Neither the records
> themselves. Their website might have such a message.
There is some software, however, isn't there? And of course
something -can- still be copyright without the copyright message.
We had agreed to this, hadn't we? Check with Berne convention.
>> Why would you need to pay them a few thousand USD more ?
> Liar - I never said that I /needed/ to pay them anything more.
> I said I /would/ have. To keep the businessethical.
> They however decided to be unethical. I adapted.
It's natural to suppose that one does not pay a few thousand USD
more unless there is some reason to do so, i.e. a "need." In this
case, however, weren't you going to pay a few thousand USD more
AFTER the fact of your reutilization and exploitation of the GoGoD data?
What is unethical about their refusal to enter into your scheme?
>> I was speaking generally, from the above
> You could always become a preacher.
Perhaps you may someday speak from the above, as well.
>> We have established from law, nevertheless, that copyright can exist
>> even without the copyright message. Remember, you can strip away
>> the word "copyright" and yet, that object may still be under copyright.
> Digital game records are NOT copyrighted when they are not annotated.
That's because they could be machine-generated. We know for
a fact that the GoGoD game database was not machine-generated.
Have you forgotten to explain why GoGoD sales are banned in Japan?
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia Plans Tighter Banking, Immigration Controls on Georgia
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10289
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Lawrence
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2006 03:00:42 +0100, Chris Lawrence wrote:
>
> >The exact same problem used to happen to me running an early version of
> >glGo on a Radeon Mobility series. I was in dialogue with Peter about it
> >but never really got past it - there was always some variant of this
> >problem:
> >
> >o after a few moves I would hear the stones click but no new stones
> >would appear on the board
> >
> >o stones would appear on the board but captures would not disappear
> >
> >o I could hear the stones click but the screen remained blank
>
> Chris,
>
> could you resolve it? Did it disappear in later versions?
No, I couldn't resolve it and the problems remained in a couple of later
versions. I tried changing various settings to no avail. I know Peter
had done most of the work to support nVidia and not tested it with ATI
hardware. In the end I stopped using it and went back to gGo because I
preferred a 2D board anyway.
--
Chris
Frank de Groot
Not according to YOUR definition.
YOR definition of software excludes /data/ and /eBooks/.
But yes. There is some somftware, and /some/ software on planet Earth can be
theoretically Copyrighted.
Non-commented Go games however aren't.
> It's natural to suppose that one does not pay a few thousand USD
> more unless there is some reason to do so, i.e. a "need."
Then you are - again - of the canine persuasion.
I don't do thing due to "need" (except eating, drinking, breathing,
sleeping, paying taxes and dying).
I do things due to the fact that it makes me happy.
Reciprocity makes me happy. It's seems fair.
But not in the case where they attack me.
Then it is war. The war has not started yet.
These are the little skirmishes, the to-and-fro, the testing of the waters.
The actual war will be fought throughout this decade.
And I will support GoBase's and GoGoD and SL's competitors, of course.
Competition is good, especially when it's scum you're competing with.
Time some fresh new young blood enters the scene, n'est-ce pas?
> case, however, weren't you going to pay a few thousand USD more
> AFTER the fact of your reutilization and exploitation of the GoGoD
> data?
No, liar.
> What is unethical about their refusal to enter into your scheme?
Liar, they did not have a choice. I never gave them a choice.
I was the one that refused to play along with THEIR scheme of putting my
software on their CD.
Then they discredited my software.
> Perhaps you may someday speak from the above, as well.
I prefer to kick your ass from below.
>> Digital game records are NOT copyrighted when they are not annotated.
>
>
> That's because they could be machine-generated.
No, that's because they are 0% creative and 100% a non value-added COPY,
liar.
> We know for
> a fact that the GoGoD game database was not machine-generated.
Who gives a fuck. It's irrelevant.
If I write down "1 + 1 = 2" It's NOT copyrighted.
It's a non-value-added copy of a FACT.
Not a creative work, ya fucking peabrained freak.
> Russia Plans Tighter Banking, Immigration Controls on Georgia
I have mixed feelings about that.
Michael Alford
> "Michael Alford" <ma...@aracnet.com> wrote
>
>> Utter nonsense.
>>
>> God in Heaven, you are fucking worthless trash...
>
>
> You are violating my Copyright on these words.
>
>
OK, I've waited 48 hrs to respond to this, have to give credit to Frank
for having a sense of humor.
Yours,
Michael
Frank de Groot
>> You are violating my Copyright on these words.
>
> OK, I've waited 48 hrs to respond to this, have to give credit to Frank
> for having a sense of humor.
Well, I found those words in a dictionary, and I carefully typed them into
my message, checked them for errors so if you pay me you can read them, but
you a re not allowed to use them yourself any more ever again - I found and
entered them first.
Perhaps, if you are nice, we can discuss some bulk licencing agreement.
Michael Alford
Only if I quote your entire message and don't give credit.
Michael Alford
Well, if your people get together with my people, and they hammer out
some agreement which they submit to the courts... they're the only
winners, you and I are both out a lot of money...
Jeff Nowakowski
> Frank de Groot wrote:
>
>> Perhaps, if you are nice, we can discuss some bulk licencing agreement.
>
> Only if I quote your entire message and don't give credit.
Careful malf, you've got a white stain on your dress. What would tweet
think?
-Jeff
Michael Alford
WTF? This is a joke between me and Frank, why are you horning in?
-
>> There is some software, however, isn't there?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Not according to YOUR definition.
> YOR definition of software excludes /data/ and /eBooks/.
Nope. The "popular usage" interpretation -does- include these,
if as courseware. In that sense perhaps they also imply the flexible
nature of some courseware or those materials somewhat auxilliary to
the real purpose of the course, which was development of students.
I remind you, btw: that definition is from Oxford English Dictionary.
Unfortunately, as I pointed out to you earlier, the "popular usage"
sense for software does not necessarily lend to it a strong copyright.
If the GoGoD games database is termed "software" (courseware) then
as "popular usage" any case for copyright goes away for the most part.
And the fact that many laborious hours were invested into the creation
of such "software" (in the "popular usage" context) does not change
the fact that copyright claims would be weak. One could invest many
laborious hours into poetry that uses only random punctuation symbols
yet trying to claim copyright on such gibberish might be laughable.
Suppose I try another form, however. I designate 19*N verbs and
19*M subject-nouns. I define a pair of coordinate plays as a pair of
predicate nomitives. Instead of coordinates I now have verbal poetry.
The particular codebook for each "poem" is set by an encryption key
such as a DSS preamble. In this fashion there is merely the key and
text, readable only by descrambling software. Because the "poems"
are in a form of alphanumeric plaintext and of significant length, they
are each copyrightable. Yet they each merely work at the inverse
direction to your example of "non-copyrightable coordinates."
So we have some conflicting interpretations here. Ordinarily a
game is non-copyrightable. Suppose, however, that the conditions
for the existence of that game are predicated upon the sponsor who
buys ownership of the game record by paying the pro players to play.
The sponsor claims a marketable commodity under broadcast copyright
along with the justifiable claim that no discussion would have been
possible about that game record without the sponsor's participation.
> But yes. There is some somftware, and /some/ software on planet Earth
> can be theoretically Copyrighted.
Is there no software in the GoGoD distribution, at least to read
and parse the games database? No copyright on -that- software?
> Non-commented Go games however aren't.
Which brings up an interesting question. If the games are commented
then are commented games copyright? Or was it merely the comments ?
If I etch those game records into platinum and gold are you permitted to
steal platinum and gold merely because games alone are not copyright?
Maybe you can remarket game records but you cannot remarket the SGF?
>> It's natural to suppose that one does not pay a few thousand USD
>> more unless there is some reason to do so, i.e. a "need."
> Then you are - again - of the canine persuasion.
> I don't do thing due to "need" (except eating, drinking, breathing,
> sleeping, paying taxes and dying).
>
> I do things due to the fact that it makes me happy.
> Reciprocity makes me happy. It's seems fair.
You estimated the value of misappropriated use as a few thousand USD.
> But not in the case where they attack me.
> Then it is war. The war has not started yet.
> These are the little skirmishes, the to-and-fro, the testing of the waters.
> The actual war will be fought throughout this decade.
> And I will support GoBase's and GoGoD and SL's competitors, of course.
> Competition is good, especially when it's scum you're competing with.
>
> Time some fresh new young blood enters the scene, n'est-ce pas?
You get more with honey than you do with lemons.
>> ... weren't you going to pay a few thousand USD more AFTER the
>> fact of your reutilization and exploitation of the GoGoD data?
> No, liar.
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2006
>>>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>>>> I would have paid a few thousand USD more, if it
>>>>> weren't for their crusade against me.
Why did they have a crusade against you if you had not done
any misappropriated reutilization and exploitation of GoGoD data?
>> What is unethical about their refusal to enter into your scheme?
> Liar, they did not have a choice. I never gave them a choice.
> I was the one that refused to play along with THEIR scheme of
> putting my software on their CD.
> Then they discredited my software.
Did they, in fact, place MoyoGo software on their CD? If they
never did so then what evidence substantiates THEIR scheme?
I have another explanation: GoGoD wishes to market its product
in Japan but to do so they need to establish unique priority over
the games that were carefully transcribed, and checked, into SGF.
Moreover GoGoD needs to establish games it obtains from Japan are
not made generally available to other distributors or to public domain?
You have yet to supply an adequate explanation for why sales of
GoGoD have been banned in Japan.
>> Perhaps you may someday speak from the above, as well.
> I prefer to kick your ass from below.
So you're like a dwarf ninja hiding in the outhouse for Takeda Shingen?
Or maybe you're one of those buttfuckers who can't get enough beefcake?
>>> Digital game records are NOT copyrighted when they are not annotated.
>> That's because they could be machine-generated.
> No, that's because they are 0% creative and 100% a non
> value-added COPY, liar.
I have another explanation. Copyright is not premised upon
whether something is value-added, nor whether it is deemed creative.
A "creative work" is -anything- produced directly by human involvement.
>> We know for
>> a fact that the GoGoD game database was not machine-generated.
> Who gives a fuck. It's irrelevant.
> If I write down "1 + 1 = 2" It's NOT copyrighted.
> It's a non-value-added copy of a FACT.
> Not a creative work, ya fucking peabrained freak.
The complicated exposition from a mathematical treatise may be
copyrighted. Why real mathematicians are careful to provide attribution
whenever they present a proof arrived at by another mathematician.
If you do a term paper by copying another and fail to provide quotes
and citation then you can be accused of academic plagiarism. Here
you had admitted that you cannot identify which games are from GoGoD,
which are from SmartGo, and which are uniquely in each database.
Project could be easily done by computer professionals with hashtables.
- regards
- jb
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Great 20th Century Art Scam
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10310
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> Is there no software in the GoGoD distribution, at least to read
> and parse the games database? No copyright on -that- software?
Yes. And isn't the sky blue?
But I fail to see what the relevance is.
If you are insinuating that I stole the freeware on the GoGoD CD, I haven't.
So why are you bringing thsi totally unrelated, and totally irrelevant fact
up?
Is it to maliciously insinuate that I am a software pirate, or to "win" an
argument by putting up a straw man and then attacking it?
Both are cheap, despicable discussion tricks.
So the only reasonabe reply - again - is: Go fuck yourself.
Really, you don't deserve any better.
You waste my time by continuously lying, insinuationg, slandering, making up
things, distorting the facts, distorting my words, attacking any way you
can, using any vulgar discussion trick in your arsenal.
You are a pathetic creature. I pity you and I would not talk to you, if it
weren't for your barrage of lies.
I have to respond because some might actually /believe/ that crap.
So you have your "revenge": You hold me hostage here, in a sense.
By keeping up allegatons that unethical or illegal activity is taking place,
and by employing nasty tricks (lying, alleging things that never happened,
distorting facts, words, events), you keep stressing me and distracting me
from my work.
Shame on your parents for not bringing you up to have a modicum of ethics.
Shame on anyone who has any association with you.
And shame on you for persisting at this hooliganism.
> Which brings up an interesting question. If the games are
> commented
> then are commented games copyright? Or was it merely the comments ?
The comments are copyrighted. Never the game. As I told you a million times
before.
> If I etch those game records into platinum and gold are you permitted
> to
> steal platinum and gold merely because games alone are not copyright?
Liar, I never stole the GoGoD CD.
> Maybe you can remarket game records but you cannot remarket the SGF?
Maybe pigs can fly?
> You estimated the value of misappropriated use as a few thousand USD.
Liar, I estimate the life-time extra-revenue due to those couple of thousand
disputed games to be a few thousand USD.
Actually, I don't think I made /any/ extra money on them. Whether I offer
52,000 pro games (as I do now), or 47,000, you think it makes any difference
for my sales or GoGoD's sales? Get real.
A pro player donated 45,000 games for my collection. Add that to what
already was in the public domain, and you'll end up with more games that
GoGoD.
> You get more with honey than you do with lemons.
False.
The thing is, I am not a coward. As I told you before, I smuggled DDR people
through the iron curtain because I was against suppression of freedom.
And I do the same with Go game records. And many like that, including pro
players and Go players with "skilz".
They use those skills to get me even more game records. I will eventually
make my entire collection freeware again.
Let's say every two years. There are some problems with it (I have promised
some no to put "their" games online too early), but I'll do it again,
eventually.
So a lot of people AGREE that game records are ethically and legally "free",
and THIS is why I now have 52,000 pro games.
That's by far the largest game collection. It's 14,000 more than what the
runners-up offer.
You are saying - what a preposterous claim - that if I were to roll over,
take the abuse, cower to the threats, pay the extortion money, that I would
have ended up with more pro games than 52,000?
> Why did they have a crusade against you if you had not done
> any misappropriated reutilization and exploitation of GoGoD data?
You **fucking** piece of shit!!
You know FULL WELL that they slandered my freeware as soon as I released
it - at that time, and FAR into the future - I never used their games for
ANYTHING. Only AFTER they attacked me and smeared my freeware, I decided
that my database would include "their" games without compensation. My
database was released a YEAR after GoGoD went into attack mode, you
miserable, lying and deceiving slimeball!
What an asshole you are.
> I have another explanation. Copyright is not premised upon
> whether something is value-added, nor whether it is deemed creative.
> A "creative work" is -anything- produced directly by human
> involvement.
So when I push a turd out, I have copyright on it?
Hahaha!
Freakazoid maniac.
Look what a clown you make of yourself. You're a public spectacle.
You should rent yourself out to a circus, do something useful for a change.
> you had admitted that you cannot identify which games are from GoGoD,
> which are from SmartGo,
Fool, SmartGo copied them from Charles Robbins (or whatever his name is).
And he copied it from GoBase or whatever.
The fact that SmartGo was stupid enough to pay money for them, doesn't mean
that I am not allowed to use those games.
> Project could be easily done by computer professionals with
> hashtables.
Yes. So could many other things. Howver, it would be a futile endeavor. We
have already convincingly established that:
A) Go game records that are not annotated, are not subjected to Copyright,
B) A is valid world-wide,
C) It is not unethical to use games that have been recorded or sold by
others
D) It is unethical to claim monopolistic ownership of games and demand money
for "licensing" till the end of times, just because one took the initiative
of making those games available in digital form.
E) Jeff Boscole is a despicable liar and a repugnant troll.
Big Duck
Sincerely,
Big Duck
PS Where is the reset button?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote in message
news:CdmdndHRXPA...@giganews.com...
Frank de Groot
> Are we witnessing the news group equivelent of an infinite loop?
We are witnessing the equivalent of a little dog walking along, and a big
dog (jb) starting to bark at this little dog.
But the little dog - unexpectedly - manages to defend itself very well, and
it manages to keep the big dog of his back for the duration of the big dog's
barking session.
But after a while, other dogs (like yourself) feel the urge to bark around a
little as well, to assert their "dominance" and just because they like to be
a general nuisance.
When two dogs are barking at eachother, it's generally not very helpful when
other dogs join in with non-constructive side-barking.
To sum it up: If you are not interested in a thread, keep your mouth shut
and just don't read it.
You have to do active effort to click on postings with my name on them.
If you don't like it - tough luck.
I have freedom of speech.
We are not all like you (propensity for censorship and strong inclination to
"piss around" - to push one's unrequested opinion time and time again in a
obnoxious ways).
Frank de Groot
Frank de Groot
> Why did they have a crusade against you if you had not done
> any misappropriated reutilization and exploitation of GoGoD data?
I forgot to mention this:
I worked about two years on my first product, a freeware SGF Reader that did
not include or use any Gop games.
When I finally released it, I immediately contacted Jan van der Steen of
GoBase.
I asked him to put up a link to my freeware SGF Reader on his website.
He refused.
Now mind you - at that time there was absolutely no dispute about anything.
In fact, I was getting free GoGoD CD's (after having purchased a couple), as
"sponsorship", in return for a prominent link to GoGoD on my site.
The onyle reason conceivable that GoBase boycotted my freeware SGF reader is
that I /announced/ to one day come up with Go pattern recognition and a game
database.
So because I announced to maybe-in-the-future release software competing
with Jan van der Steen's website, he decided to do an extremely unethical
thing (not just to me but to everybody interested in my freeware SGF
reader).
Sensei's Library swallowed the bullshit hook, line and sinker, because they
told me that they will not run any ads for my freeware SGF reader either.
So, faced with a blanket boycot of whatever I produce by whomever "big guys"
on the internet, I decided I just could not justify the effort associated
with supporting any freeware.
So that's the "positive contributions" of scum like GoGoD and GoBase.
Monopolizing the worlds' Go games, and suppressing innovative free Go
software.
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Is there no software in the GoGoD distribution, at least to read
>> and parse the games database? No copyright on -that- software?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> ... If you are insinuating that I stole the freeware on the GoGoD CD ...
*-< more than 20 lines of vituperative digressions snipped >-*
All I did here was ask some questions. The point of inquiry
concerned whether -any- copyright messages are on the GoGoD CD
distribution. If there are -none- at all then `p2p' servers seems ok?
>> Which brings up an interesting question. If the games are commented
>> then are commented games copyright? Or was it merely the comments ?
> The comments are copyrighted. Never the game. As I told you
> a million times before.
Though it's been mentioned here on the newsgroup a few times that
Japanese traditional law honored broadcast copyright on game records.
Furthermore, a query posed here, which you have been ducking big time
concerns a suitable explanation for why GoGoD sales are banned in Japan.
>> If I etch those game records into platinum and gold are you permitted to
>> steal platinum and gold merely because games alone are not copyright?
> Liar, I never stole the GoGoD CD.
What is there to steal if GoGoD displays no copyright messages?
>> You estimated the value of misappropriated use as a few thousand USD.
> Liar, I estimate the life-time extra-revenue due to those couple of thousand
> disputed games to be a few thousand USD.
> Actually, I don't think I made /any/ extra money on them. Whether I offer
> 52,000 pro games (as I do now), or 47,000, you think it makes any difference
> for my sales or GoGoD's sales? Get real.
Oh no, I think it makes a rather large difference. For the buying
public if they understand that all of GoGoD's games are included with
the MoyoGo package then they need not purchase both products.
They abandon the GoGoD purchase altogether and buy MoyoGo.
That translates into hundreds of thousands or potentially millions, of
lost USDs, to the GoGoD distributors in relative sales figures.
> A pro player donated 45,000 games for my collection. Add that to what
> already was in the public domain, and you'll end up with more games that
> GoGoD.
The significance of large numbers of games is surely overrated.
We are aware of the number of Go Games being in excess of the
numbers of molecules, or atomic combinations, in the universe. So
having a few thousand games, or a few million, is statistically not very
much different when (Avogadro's Number)^4 is so very much larger.
>> You get more with honey than you do with lemons.
> False.
Pound for pound, honey is generally more expensive than lemons.
> The thing is, I am not a coward. As I told you before, I smuggled DDR people
> through the iron curtain because I was against suppression of freedom.
How did you eliminate "suppression of freedom" by smuggling just
a few people?
> And I do the same with Go game records. And many like that, including pro
> players and Go players with "skilz".
> They use those skills to get me even more game records. I will eventually
> make my entire collection freeware again.
> Let's say every two years. There are some problems with it (I have
> promised some no to put "their" games online too early), but I'll do it
> again, eventually.
So you agree that a broadcast copyright should last for two years?
> So a lot of people AGREE that game records are ethically and
> legally "free", and THIS is why I now have 52,000 pro games.
> That's by far the largest game collection. It's 14,000 more than what
> the runners-up offer.
> You are saying - what a preposterous claim - that if I were to roll over,
> take the abuse, cower to the threats, pay the extortion money, that I
> would have ended up with more pro games than 52,000?
No, I am saying that larger numbers of games does not provide much
more by way of statistical significance. If one could fully understand
what is happening in only 1,000 professional games that might suffice.
For sample purposes in political polling, about 1,000 interviews can
place the election outcome within 4% in a nation of millions of voters.
The risk of grief, pain and sorrow engendered by pilfering games from
other collections is simply not worth the amount of dubious statistical
significance obtained for MoyoGo. Instead you sought to capitalize on
the "collector's greed" factor out there by advertising your product as
more comprehensive than your competitors. However it became that
way because you absorbed competitor collections into your database.
So your argument becomes basically that of the crass monopolist?
>> Why did they have a crusade against you if you had not done
>> any misappropriated reutilization and exploitation of GoGoD data?
> ... You know FULL WELL that they slandered my freeware as soon as
> I released it - at that time, and FAR into the future - I never used their
> games for ANYTHING. Only AFTER they attacked me and smeared my
> freeware, I decided that my database would include "their" games without
> compensation. My database was released a YEAR after GoGoD went into
> attack mode ...
I've never heard of freeware being smeared. Instead I have only the
experience of you, via this newsgroup, to confirm that you resort to vile
obscenities in response to civil questions. I suspect that you sought to
provoke something you could misconstrue as an "attack" owing to your
ultimate hidden agenda to pilfer products "justifiably" (your own mind.)
>> I have another explanation. Copyright is not premised upon
>> whether something is value-added, nor whether it is deemed creative.
>> A "creative work" is -anything- produced directly by human involvement.
> So when I push a turd out, I have copyright on it?
That would be "popular usage" or (in your case) "unpopular usage."
>> ... you had admitted that you cannot identify which games are from
>> GoGoD, which are from SmartGo,
> Fool, SmartGo copied them from Charles Robbins (or whatever his
> name is). And he copied it from GoBase or whatever. The fact that
> SmartGo was stupid enough to pay money for them, doesn't mean
> that I am not allowed to use those games.
You were criticizing Mr. Kierulf for tax evasion and yet you criticize
him when he's generous to support the laborious data entry of games.
I suspect that we are not speaking of a common game set here, but
that you were confusing one collection with another, as is your practice.
>> Project could be easily done by computer professionals with hashtables.
> Yes. So could many other things. Howver, it would be a futile endeavor. We
> have already convincingly established that:
> A) Go game records that are not annotated, are not subjected to Copyright,
Unless they are components of some persistent broadcast copyright.
> B) A is valid world-wide,
Except in Japan where we have heard that GoGoD sales are banned?
> C) It is not unethical to use games that have been recorded or sold by others
Though you had characterized this very practice by you, as "unethical."
> D) It is unethical to claim monopolistic ownership of games and demand
> money for "licensing" till the end of times, just because one took the
> initiative of making those games available in digital form.
Yet by building the largest collection of games and bragging about that
aspect, you have, in fact, been advertising your "monopoly" of sorts.
> E) Jeff Boscole is a despicable liar and a repugnant troll.
Not quite so repugnant as the one whose life purpose is troll fodder.
- regards
- jb
------------------------------------------------------------------
Canada: Homofascist Parliament Scorns Religious Freedom
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10318
------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> All I did here was ask some questions.
Also for you:
www.plaxo.be
> The point of inquiry
> concerned whether -any- copyright messages are on the GoGoD CD
> distribution. If there are -none- at all then `p2p' servers seems ok?
I abhor violence, Mr. Boscole.
So in the hypothetical situation that you would be here in the same room
with me - before I would put my boot in your ass - I would first make sure
you're not /really/ senile.
There is no need for a Copyright message in order for a creative work to be
Copyrighted.
Most people know. I expected you to know too.
Whenever I'm facted with somone behaving like he knows everything, I
actually pretend I believe him (It's always a "him").
Bad idea - at least with you. That kind of respect I extend to know-it-alls
(you never know, some people /do/ know what they're talking about) is wasted
on you. I /never/ open my mouth except to ask questions, when I don't know
something. When I learned to play Go, I ate humble pie all the time, 100% of
the time, every time.
I sometimes wonder how far you are from suicide. You seem to be in great
need of human contact - by any means possible. The only avenue open to you
right now is that of the flamewar. In that case, I am truly sorry for you.
Go and play Go in a pub!
And: Sometimes it really IS a good idea to jump in front of a train. You
might put others out of their misery.
(well, try to avoid jumping in front of a train, it's not nice for the
driver)
> Though it's been mentioned here on the newsgroup a few times that
> Japanese traditional law honored broadcast copyright on game records.
It's not true. At least those Japanese that bought my software (about a
handful) told me that this Japanese CUSTOM would definitely NOT stand up in
court. According to them and those they talked with in Japan. It's a CUSTOM.
A "respect" thing.
I have no respect for GoGoD. They smeared my software and my good name as a
programmer with the sole purpuse of gaining financially (they were afraid of
my future, competing product). The same goes for GoBase. The same goes for
SmartGo (got me off the internet by lying to my ISP and web host). I don't
respect them. My standards are too high. They're all scum. For several
reasons they're scum, in my book.
But I don't have many friends. Like I said, my standards are very high. A
"friend" means I would sacrifice my life without hesitation, if I could save
the life of my friend. Anyone else is my enemy. But I give everyone the
chance to be my friend. Any random stranger starts out as my friend, but
most spoil it in the first few seconds or so.
> Furthermore, a query posed here, which you have been ducking big time
> concerns a suitable explanation for why GoGoD sales are banned in
> Japan.
I have been told it's because the Japanese generally think they're scum.
I have told you this many times before.
It's considered tasteless to make money with games that belong either in the
public domain, or to the players themselves, depending on the view you take.
But /selling/ them (and preventing /others/ from doing the same!) is the
most dishonorable thing imaginable.
So they're scum.
Parasites.
> What is there to steal if GoGoD displays no copyright messages?
See above. No copyright message required to be protected by Law.
I do not need to tattoo a message on my forehead: "Illegal to kill me".
The law protects me, and every citizen is required to know the law.
Not knowing the law is a poor (non-legal) excuse for breaking it.
> Oh no, I think it makes a rather large difference. For the
> buying
> public if they understand that all of GoGoD's games are included with
> the MoyoGo package then they need not purchase both products.
Thanks for the plug.
They can purchase Moyo Go at http://moyogo.com/
It contains 14,000 more pro games than the GoGoD CD.
No duplicates. And the import process rejects crappy games now (with
erroneously notated moves).
So the quality is really, really good.
> They abandon the GoGoD purchase altogether and buy MoyoGo.
Let's hope so.
But I am a very ethical person. I treat those who supply me with games very
well.
Anything I can possibly do for them, I do.
I would have entered such a partnership with GoGoD as well. I would have
given them a percentage of my sales.
But GoGoD games - I only added them /once/. Meaning a lump sum would be more
in order.
But a sales percentage would be OK too.
Not when they wage war on me /before/ I used their games though.
GoBase did the same. Waged war on me (refused to link to my freeware)
/before/ I had any product using any games.
So fuck them all. Extreme prejudice. I'd spend a /lot/ of effort getting
them out of bussiness, even.
Until they apologize publicly and privately and until they repair some of
the damage they've done to me and the Go playing public.
The reason there is no Moyo Go freeware is because of them. I can't afford
to support it if nobody links to it.
The reason SL doesn't link to any freeware is due to GoBase, SmartGo and
GoGoD.
> That translates into hundreds of thousands or potentially millions, of
> lost USDs, to the GoGoD distributors in relative sales figures.
GoGoD is a criminal kartel.
They made a million by illegally claiming those games are copyrighted by
them.
I am breaking them, bit by bit. That will teach them not to wage war of
agression on people who are perfectly able to defend themselves.
You enter a world of pain when you mess with me. That's a good strategy.
Israel employs it too. (I'm not defending Israel, I'm just showing that the
strategy works pretty well).
> The significance of large numbers of games is surely overrated.
Then why do you say I am such a threat to GoGoD?
Or do you think that pro player is a fool?
> We are aware of the number of Go Games being in excess of the
> numbers of molecules, or atomic combinations, in the universe.
That is baloney.
The number of /possible/ Go games, yes.
But that's something else.
> So
> having a few thousand games, or a few million, is statistically not
> very
> much different when (Avogadro's Number)^4 is so very much larger.
Baloney.
It's a great deal more, compared to the /played/ games.
And that's the only population you have, to learn from.
So, again, you employ a dirty discussion trick.
You take diametrically opposed positions, and expect me to defend one and
agree with the other one because if one attacks one position vigorously, one
surely must agree with the "opposite" one?
It ain't gonna work. And you're a fool for trying.
> Pound for pound, honey is generally more expensive than lemons.
Irrelevant.
1) They denied me the option of using honey.
2) If honey is more expensive than lemons, then by your own admission I
should not expend honey, but lemons instead. Q.E.D.
> How did you eliminate "suppression of freedom" by smuggling just
> a few people?
Ask them. Their freedom to be free was impeded. After I helped them over the
communist border, they were free to travel across the globe.
I never said I eliminated "suppression of freedom" across the globe, you
dirty stinking liar. Every person counts.
If you would have been with us, you would have gotten a heart attack, you
obese fuck. I had a pulse of 175 in complete rest.
Just keep trivializing whatever small things people are doing to make a
positive change.
It's cynical fucks like you that make the world the sad place it is today.
It would be much better if you jumped in front of that train, really.
I also celebrated when Steve Irwin died.
The whole world morned/mourned his death but I broke out the wine. I am not
kidding.
Ever heard of "Bumfights"? He invented it.
Bumfights is a programme where they pay homeless drunks to kick the shit out
of eachother so that blood flows.
They sold it on DVD. Many homeless people ended up with broken limbs without
the option of getting medical treatment, that way.
Steve Irwin was the guy that made the money with it. It was his company,
"Bumfights". Look it up.
So they guy was the lowest scum imaginable. Exploitation of the most
vulnerable people.
So I am glad he's dead. A shame he didn't die much sooner. I'm sorry for his
daughter though.
But the worst thing is the shame, when she finds out who her daddy really
was.
A psychopath and sociopath and not just an torturer of animals, he did worse
to people. Divine justice! Died like a rat - good riddance.
> So you agree that a broadcast copyright should last for two
> years?
No, liar.
> No, I am saying that larger numbers of games does not provide much
> more by way of statistical significance.
Imbecile - what counts is the number of PLAYED games, not the number of
POSSIBLE games
When I tell you I've slept with around 120 women, you can tell me it's not
statisticly significant compared to the number of women on Earth or even the
numbers of female humanoids in the multiverse, but in reality the only thing
that counts is how many women one can realisticly expect to sleep with. Most
sorry buggers like yourself won't reach that number. So they make up
bullshit stories like how it all doesn't matter. Yeah, right, it doesn't
matter. But not because it's "not statistically significant". You're damn
wrong that it isn't. I would expect better from a mathematician!
> The risk of grief, pain and sorrow engendered by pilfering games from
> other collections
Who's grief? GoGoD's? Great! I hope they grieve themselves to an early
grave.
> is simply not worth the amount of dubious statistical
> significance obtained for MoyoGo. Instead you sought to capitalize on
> the "collector's greed" factor out there by advertising your product
> as
> more comprehensive than your competitors.
Because it's true. That's how capitalism works.
GoGoD is free to tell retailers not to carry my software and websites not to
link to me too (and they do, GoBase too)
Free world. I hope they suffocate in their own vomit. /And/ those retailers.
Anyway, a good product advertizes itself. Last holiday persiod I sold 61.
(November and December).
Have you seen my new website?
It's very beautiful now, isn't it?
http://moyogo.com/
> I've never heard of freeware being smeared.
Liar. You even admitted that it was a nasty thing to do, of John Fairbairn.
(The senility hypothesis gains momentum.)
>Instead I have only the
> experience of you, via this newsgroup, to confirm that you resort to
> vile
> obscenities in response to civil questions.
The smearing was done via this newsgroup.
Pay attention, kiddo.
> I suspect that you sought to
> provoke something you could misconstrue as an "attack" owing to your
> ultimate hidden agenda to pilfer products "justifiably" (your own
> mind.)
Yeah. Just as the attack on Iraq was in fact provoked by Saddam, to allow
him to "be a martyr" and thus advance his own nefarious agenda, LOL.
You're a funny clown, you are. You should join PNAC or the anti-defamation
league or something. They need spin doctors like you.
> That would be "popular usage" or (in your case) "unpopular usage."
So you admit you are full of shit. Good.
I am softening you up. Kind of like turning the constipation to diarreah.
And then I just verbally jump on you and all the verbal crap explodes out in
a last whatchamacallit.
> You were criticizing Mr. Kierulf for tax evasion and yet you criticize
> him when he's generous to support the laborious data entry of games.
Liar. He supports the opposite - the hoarding of games.
Just as he did when he conspired to take the GoTools DLL out of the public
domain.
>> A) Go game records that are not annotated, are not subjected to
>> Copyright,
> Unless they are components of some persistent broadcast
> copyright.
..which does not exist.
> Except in Japan where we have heard that GoGoD sales are banned?
Because they're scum. I'm glad you brought it up again.
It's an /honor/ thing. They're scum. Not wanted in Japan.
(Have I told you that I made a handful of sales there?)
>> C) It is not unethical to use games that have been recorded or sold by
>> others
>
> Though you had characterized this very practice by you, as
> "unethical."
No, that's not true. I said that it's only in theory unethical, not in
practice.
In the theory of some convoluted minds.
And by the way I took that wording back a long time ago.
I had cut them too much slack.
> Yet by building the largest collection of games and bragging about
> that
> aspect, you have, in fact, been advertising your "monopoly" of sorts.
Moyo Go has the world's largest Pro game database!
Buy your copy now at www.moyogo.com
(GoGoD and smartGo don't even come close - Moyo Go has 14,000 games more! -
that's FOURTEEN THOUSAND, folks!)
Jeff Nowakowski
> I /never/ open my mouth except to ask questions, when I don't know
> something.
If only that were so. You have quite a history of jumping to
conclusiosn on too little evidence.
-Jeff
Frank de Groot
> The whole world morned/mourned his death but I broke out the wine. I am
> not kidding.
>
> Ever heard of "Bumfights"? He invented it.
Some say it was a Steve Irwin impersonator, but all I know is that this
person looked and talked and acted and sounder like him, and that they
themselves claim(ed) it was him. And there was a lot of to-do about it when
they started, that someone like Irwin should know better.
Anyway - if it's not Steve Irwin in that series - I take it back - but I
still hated the guy and I still think it's good he's dead.
Chris Lawrence
> I have no respect for GoGoD. They smeared my software and my good name as a
> programmer with the sole purpuse of gaining financially (they were afraid of
> my future, competing product). The same goes for GoBase. The same goes for
> SmartGo (got me off the internet by lying to my ISP and web host). I don't
You're joking? Only you've never mentioned it before *rolls eyes*
--
Chris
Frank de Groot
>
>
> You're joking? Only you've never mentioned it before *rolls eyes*
Sorry - I do not understand this posting.
Could you elaborate?
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The point of inquiry concerned whether -any- copyright messages are on the
>> GoGoD CD distribution. If there are -none- at all then `p2p' servers seems ok?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> ... There is no need for a Copyright message in order for a creative
> work to be Copyrighted. Most people know. I expected you to know too.
I'm glad you know that now, Frank. I'm happy to quote you henceforth.
> When I learned to play Go ....
But you did not learn to play Go. You're a non-player, remember?
> The only avenue open to you right now is that of the flamewar.
If you review, you'll find the flames are all yours. I ask questions.
>> Though it's been mentioned here on the newsgroup a few times that
>> Japanese traditional law honored broadcast copyright on game records.
> It's not true. At least those Japanese that bought my software (about a
> handful) told me that this Japanese CUSTOM would definitely NOT stand
> up in court. According to them and those they talked with in Japan.
> It's a CUSTOM. A "respect" thing.
Well, in Japan if you disregard the "custom" and "`respect'
thing" you won't progress very far into Japanese society.
> I have no respect for GoGoD. They smeared my software
Citations?
> ... and my good name ...
You mean, of course, the one who spouts obscenities?
> ... I don't have many friends. Like I said, my standards are very high.
> A "friend" means I would sacrifice my life without hesitation, if I could
> save the life of my friend.
Under such conditions they don't wish to be your friends... :-(
>> Furthermore, a query posed here, which you have been ducking big time
>> concerns a suitable explanation for why GoGoD sales are banned in Japan.
> I have been told it's because the Japanese generally think they're scum.
> I have told you this many times before.
> It's considered tasteless to make money with games that belong either in the
> public domain, or to the players themselves, depending on the view you take.
So MoyoGo is also "scum" to the Japanese, for similar reasons?
Being "banned in Japan" is a bit stronger than merely calling it "scum."
> But /selling/ them (and preventing /others/ from doing the same!) is the
> most dishonorable thing imaginable.
Who was prevented from selling a competitive product?
>> What is there to steal if GoGoD displays no copyright messages?
> See above. No copyright message required to be protected by Law.
Yet neither any copywrong messages as well ...
> I do not need to tattoo a message on my forehead: "Illegal to kill me".
> The law protects me, and every citizen is required to know the law.
> Not knowing the law is a poor (non-legal) excuse for breaking it.
All one needs do is befriend you and require your life sacrifice.
>> For the buying
>> public if they understand that all of GoGoD's games are included with
>> the MoyoGo package then they need not purchase both products.
>> They abandon the GoGoD purchase altogether and buy MoyoGo.
> Let's hope so. [ ... ] They can purchase Moyo Go at ...
In so doing you are thereby directly restricting business for GoGoD
which -prevents- them from selling their product:
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> ... /selling/ them (and preventing /others/ from doing the
> same!) is the most dishonorable thing imaginable.
> But I am a very ethical person. I treat those who supply me with games
> very well. Anything I can possibly do for them, I do.
> I would have entered such a partnership with GoGoD as well. I would
> have given them a percentage of my sales. But GoGoD games - I only
> added them /once/. Meaning a lump sum would be more in order.
> But a sales percentage would be OK too.
You appear to establish that something is owing between you and them
for reutilization and remarketing of games from the GoGoD collection.
Yet you just go ahead and decide to reutilize and remarket games from
GoGoD anyway. It seems, though, that you have decided you are still
owing nothing to GoGoD merely because they have not acccepted any
offer from you. I don't understand how your rationalization of "owing"
disappears merely because GoGoD is still considering your offer.
> Not when they wage war on me /before/ I used their games though.
> GoBase did the same. Waged war on me (refused to link to my freeware)
> /before/ I had any product using any games.
Refusing to link to freeware is "waging war"? Isn't that stretching it?
Somebody who operates a website has power over its contents, no?
I don't suppose it's appropriate for riff-raff from the street to demand
what should be on a website for which one is webmaster. Weren't
you proposing use your own website in a threatening manner, as
if I should care what you do with your website?
> So fuck them all. Extreme prejudice. I'd spend a /lot/ of effort getting
> them out of bussiness, even.
> Until they apologize publicly and privately and until they repair some
> of the damage they've done to me and the Go playing public.
I might not be alone to say it's not worth the time-of-day to apologize
to any foul-mouthed individuals who suffer from Tourette's addiction.
> The reason there is no Moyo Go freeware is because of them.
> I can't afford to support it if nobody links to it.
> The reason SL doesn't link to any freeware is due to GoBase,
> SmartGo and GoGoD.
The reason SL doesn't link is due to your threats against SL.
>> That translates into hundreds of thousands or potentially millions,
>> of lost USDs, to the GoGoD distributors in relative sales figures.
> GoGoD is a criminal kartel.
> They made a million by illegally claiming those games are
> copyrighted by them.
Excuse me, you have stated that there is no copyright message in
the GoGoD distribution: not on the packaging, nor even the freeware.
> I am breaking them, bit by bit. That will teach them not to wage war of
> agression on people who are perfectly able to defend themselves.
> You enter a world of pain when you mess with me. That's a good strategy.
> Israel employs it too. (I'm not defending Israel, I'm just showing that the
> strategy works pretty well).
Why do you suppose that Isreal is following a "good strategy" ?
Evidence indicates how Jews are spawn of satan and going to hell.
You see, Frank, WMDs are going to become more readily available
to stateless terrorist groups. Aum Shinrikyo was just one example.
>> The significance of large numbers of games is surely overrated.
> Then why do you say I am such a threat to GoGoD?
I don't recall saying that you are a threat to GoGoD.
>> We are aware of the number of Go Games being in excess of the
>> numbers of molecules, or atomic combinations, in the universe.
>> So having a few thousand games, or a few million, is statistically not
>> very much different when (Avogadro's Number)^4 is so very much larger.
> Baloney.
> It's a great deal more, compared to the /played/ games.
> And that's the only population you have, to learn from.
The number of worthwhile /played/ games is perhaps the square
root or cube root of the total number of possible games. So I am
citing (Avogardro's Number)^4 rather than an ^8th or ^12th power.
I don't agree that any of these numbers are a population to learn from.
It's doubtful that any human being would see more than a few thousand.
At the rate of 10/day over a lifetime of playing, less than 1/4 million.
Yet that magnificent number is 100 orders of magnitude too small.
> So, again, you employ a dirty discussion trick.
> You take diametrically opposed positions, and expect me to defend
> one and agree with the other one because if one attacks one position
> vigorously, one surely must agree with the "opposite" one?
> It ain't gonna work. And you're a fool for trying.
I puzzled awhile over this muddle of yours but without examples
cannot make heads or tails of it.
>> Pound for pound, honey is generally more expensive than lemons.
> Irrelevant.
>
> 1) They denied me the option of using honey.
>
> 2) If honey is more expensive than lemons, then by your own
> admission I should not expend honey, but lemons instead. Q.E.D.
The point concerned which had more value, and which would
be more useful as a commodity exchange. In other words, you get
what you pay for; what goes around comes around. If cheapness is
your bag-of-tricks in life that's what you will find during the endgame.
>> How did you eliminate "suppression of freedom" by smuggling just
>> a few people?
> Ask them. Their freedom to be free was impeded. After I helped them
> over the communist border, they were free to travel across the globe.
> I never said I eliminated "suppression of freedom" across the globe,
> you dirty stinking liar. Every person counts.
Let's examine the logic of what you did carefully. You removed
from one country individuals who sought freedom which thereby
diminished the ability of other citizens in that country to find freedom.
This occurs in two ways: the reduction in effective freedom-loving
individuals within that freedom-hating country and the saturation of
too many freedom-loving individuals in the freedom-loving countries.
Fact of the matter: any country could have freedoms if only
enough citizens in that country were of the mind to desire freedom.
By understanding that these difficulties begin first with problems in
mind and spirit we can take active steps to fix the shit of the world.
People are sometimes surprised to learn that their own country is not
freedom-loving. One example is a recent article in _Time_ magazine
which purports to examine "What makes us Human?" Therein, we may
read of so-called "cognitive" abilities and materialist DNA research.
Not once during the entire article is anything said about our distinctive
character for moral spirituality.
> Just keep trivializing whatever small things people are doing to make
> a positive change.
> It's cynical fucks like you that make the world the sad place it is today.
> It would be much better if you jumped in front of that train, really.
If you just paid attention to what you write and say you would learn of
who is the sad "cynical fuck" here. People contribute in various ways.
I believe people have a right to be wrong, if that is what they choose.
I believe they obtain the government that they deserve. People are
provided many opportunities to examine various religions/philosophies.
Buddhism has been active for more than 2600 years yet it's difficult to
find anyone with a clue concerning what Buddhism is all about.
> I also celebrated when Steve Irwin died. The whole world
> morned/mourned his death but I broke out the wine. I am not kidding.
Which says a lot concerning whether you respect life's diversity.
> Ever heard of "Bumfights"? He invented it.
> Bumfights is a programme where they pay homeless drunks to kick the
> shit out of eachother so that blood flows.
> They sold it on DVD. Many homeless people ended up with broken limbs
> without the option of getting medical treatment, that way.
> Steve Irwin was the guy that made the money with it. It was his company,
> "Bumfights". Look it up.
> So they guy was the lowest scum imaginable. Exploitation of the most
> vulnerable people.
> So I am glad he's dead. A shame he didn't die much sooner. I'm sorry
> for his daughter though.
> But the worst thing is the shame, when she finds out who her daddy really
> was.
> A psychopath and sociopath and not just an torturer of animals, he did
> worse to people. Divine justice! Died like a rat - good riddance.
You're drawing one "moral conclusion" when the situation is complex.
"Society has no right to condemn Bumfights - it put the
victims on the street to begin with, so for people suddenly
to `care' is incredibly hypocritical."
http://www.trashcity.org/BLITZ/BLIT1230.HTM
"`Bumfights' was artistic and beautiful. I remember crying."
http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t=3145
Moreover, the narrator of _Bumfights_ was a Steve Irwin impersonator.
www.nationalhomeless.org/getinvolved/projects/hatecrimes/2003/fullreport.pdf
www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/sn/sfntsummer2004.pdf
http://digg.com/videos_comedy/The_Bum_Hunter_Parody_of_Steve_Irwin_s_The_Crocodile_Hunter
http://www.tightrope.cc/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=99
Once again evidence of your haste to cynicism in the effort to defecate.
>> So you agree that a broadcast copyright should last for two years?
> No, liar.
Care to explain yourself here ... ?
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>> ... I will eventually make my entire collection freeware
>>> again. Let's say every two years. There are some
>>> problems with it (I have promised some no to put "their"
>>> games online too early), but I'll do it again, eventually.
>> No, I am saying that larger numbers of games does not provide much
>> more by way of statistical significance.
> Imbecile - what counts is the number of PLAYED games, not the
> number of POSSIBLE games
What counts for what ?
> When I tell you I've slept with around 120 women, you can tell me it's
> not statisticly significant compared to the number of women on Earth
> or even the numbers of female humanoids in the multiverse, but in reality
> the only thing that counts is how many women one can realisticly expect
> to sleep with. Most sorry buggers like yourself won't reach that number.
> So they make up bullshit stories like how it all doesn't matter. Yeah, right,
> it doesn't matter. But not because it's "not statistically significant". You're
> damn wrong that it isn't. I would expect better from a mathematician!
If you found -one- real woman, THAT would be statistically significant.
Instead it appears to me that you found a lot of skanks and hoze.
>> The risk of grief, pain and sorrow engendered by pilfering games from
>> other collections
> Who's grief? GoGoD's? Great! I hope they grieve themselves to an early
> grave.
Grief, pain and sorrow for you, Frank. You missed your opportunity for
social inclusion by opting for the role of outcast. You rescue people
from unfortunate countries of anti-freedom while your own life is unfree.
>> ... Instead you sought to capitalize on the "collector's greed" factor out there
>> by advertising your product as more comprehensive than your competitors.
> Because it's true. That's how capitalism works.
Yes, however capitalism is restrained by anti-trust law.
>> I've never heard of freeware being smeared.
> Liar. You even admitted that it was a nasty thing to do, of John Fairbairn.
> (The senility hypothesis gains momentum.)
Cite? ( The "goes around comes around" hypothesis gains momentum. )
>> Instead I have only the experience of you, via this newsgroup, to confirm
>> that you resort to vile obscenities in response to civil questions.
> The smearing was done via this newsgroup.
> Pay attention, kiddo.
I can't say that any smearing was unreasonable.
>> I suspect that you sought to provoke something you could misconstrue
>> as an "attack" owing to your ultimate hidden agenda to pilfer products
>> "justifiably" (your own mind.)
> Yeah. Just as the attack on Iraq was in fact provoked by Saddam, to allow
> him to "be a martyr" and thus advance his own nefarious agenda, LOL.
> You're a funny clown, you are. You should join PNAC or the anti-defamation
> league or something. They need spin doctors like you.
I suppose that's a classic example of analogical fallacy & red-herring?
So you are now becoming the "Saddam Hussein" of the Go Community?
>> That would be "popular usage" or (in your case) "unpopular usage."
> So you admit you are full of shit. Good.
> I am softening you up. Kind of like turning the constipation to diarreah.
> And then I just verbally jump on you and all the verbal crap explodes
> out in a last whatchamacallit.
Add coprophila to the growing list of Tourette's addictions.
>> You were criticizing Mr. Kierulf for tax evasion and yet you criticize
>> him when he's generous to support the laborious data entry of games.
> Liar. He supports the opposite - the hoarding of games.
> Just as he did when he conspired to take the GoTools DLL out of
> the public domain.
He conspired with whom?
>>> A) Go game records that are not annotated, are not subjected to
>>> Copyright,
>> Unless they are components of some persistent broadcast copyright.
> ..which does not exist.
I had already supplied you with the "google" search URL. Get a clue.
>> Except in Japan where we have heard that GoGoD sales are banned?
> Because they're scum. I'm glad you brought it up again.
> It's an /honor/ thing. They're scum. Not wanted in Japan.
> (Have I told you that I made a handful of sales there?)
When you remarket GoGoD's scummy games in Japan, you are not scum?
>>> C) It is not unethical to use games that have been recorded or sold by
>>> others
>> Though you had characterized this very practice by you, as "unethical."
> No, that's not true. I said that it's only in theory unethical, not in practice.
> In the theory of some convoluted minds.
> And by the way I took that wording back a long time ago.
> I had cut them too much slack.
You enacted your unethical theory in practice. You spoke of it only
recently, not just "a long time ago." Lying now makes it unethical^2.
>> Yet by building the largest collection of games and bragging about that
>> aspect, you have, in fact, been advertising your "monopoly" of sorts.
> Moyo Go has ...
Which is precisely what you criticize about monopolistic competitors.
You have become exactly what you say you hate, which was your destiny.
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------
The Truth About 'Gay' Pedophilia
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10337
--------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
>> When I learned to play Go ....
>
> But you did not learn to play Go. You're a non-player, remember?
Liar!
A "Go player" is a person who plays Go at least occasionally. I don't.
But that does not mean I NEVER played Go or never learned the rules.
I /was/ an occasional Go player, more than two decades ago. I know the
rules. I learned the game.
But I am not a Go PLAYER. Note the use of the PRESENT TENSE, analphabetic
git.
> I ask questions.
Good, let's try that despicable trick on you:
You said you like to be buggered by big dogs.
My question: Did it hurt the first time?
See?
Not nice.
> Citations?
"In short, I don't trust your whizz-bang package and I'm therefore unlikely
to buy your own package."
If you can't get even such a fundamental thing as a clean uninstall right,
it doesn't seem to bode well for the really complex stuff."
> In so doing you are thereby directly restricting business for GoGoD
> which -prevents- them from selling their product:
Being competitive is called "capitalism", moron.
Not illegal. Only in North Korea.
It's not a crime to be competitive with GoGoD.
That you like GoGoD and hate me is not a valid reason.
> You appear to establish that something is owing between you and them
> for reutilization and remarketing of games from the GoGoD collection.
Liar!
Nothing is owing.
> Yet you just go ahead and decide to reutilize and remarket games from
> GoGoD
Liar!
GoGoD has no claim on those games.
> anyway. It seems, though, that you have decided you are still
> owing nothing to GoGoD merely because they have not acccepted any
> offer from you.
Liar!
I owe them nothing because there is nothing TO owe.
> I don't understand how your rationalization of "owing"
> disappears merely because GoGoD is still considering your offer.
Liar!
I never made any offer to GoGoD, you disgusting piece of shit.
> Refusing to link to freeware is "waging war"? Isn't that stretching
> it?
Nope.
Not when it's done with the explicit goal of doing damage and financial
gain.
When you have the western world's biggest Go site, refusing to mention a SGF
Reader is implying it is so bad that it isn't worth mentioning.
> Somebody who operates a website has power over its contents, no?
Yes. And when dishonest things are done with that website, it amounts to
war.
> The reason SL doesn't link is due to your threats against SL.
Liar!
I threatened them AFTER they stopped linking to me!
That's the same as saying the Jews were killed by Hitler for what they did
to the Palestinians, you sorry excuse for a human being.
Go and shame yourself. Shame on your parents and on anyone who deals with
you.
> Excuse me, you have stated that there is no copyright message in
> the GoGoD distribution: not on the packaging, nor even the freeware.
Indeed I have.
And I was correct.
> Why do you suppose that Isreal is following a "good strategy" ?
Isreal? Never heard of it.
> Evidence indicates how Jews are spawn of satan and going to hell.
Ah. I see. Some of the most wonderful human beings I have ever met were
Jewish.
So I take offence to that. My best memories in life were because of Jews.
I consider "Jews are spawn of satan and going to hell" bordering on
antisemitism.
> You see, Frank, WMDs are going to become more readily available
> to stateless terrorist groups. Aum Shinrikyo was just one example.
Aum Shinrikyo fell victim of a false-flag operation. Shoko Ashahara is
innocent.
They destroyed his brain so he can't testify. Aum Shinrikyo is, like Falun
Gong, a threat to the state and needed to be destroyed.
> I don't recall saying that you are a threat to GoGoD.
Then you're senile, or a liar.
> The number of worthwhile /played/ games is perhaps the square
> root or cube root of the total number of possible games.
Baloney. Go get your tuition fees back. I bet you're as bad a mathematician
as you are a programmer.
> Let's examine the logic of what you did carefully. You removed
> from one country individuals who sought freedom which thereby
> diminished the ability of other citizens in that country to find
> freedom.
> This occurs in two ways: the reduction in effective freedom-loving
> individuals within that freedom-hating country and the saturation of
> too many freedom-loving individuals in the freedom-loving countries.
I see you're grasping at straws. Wet straws.
> Which says a lot concerning whether you respect life's diversity.
There is nothing to respect. It just /is/.
> Moreover, the narrator of _Bumfights_ was a Steve Irwin impersonator.
Yes, that's what they say. All I know was that that was used as an excuse,
after he died.
Initially at least, it was Irwin himself. Perhaps he got cold feet.
But it doesn't matter, I used it as an example of how things are often not
what they seem.
Perhaps I was wrong in accusing him. He was a terrible asshole so I believed
the allegations I read.
> If you found -one- real woman, THAT would be statistically
> significant.
> Instead it appears to me that you found a lot of skanks and hoze.
I was giving a hypothetical example.
I'm still a virgin, myself.
> Grief, pain and sorrow for you, Frank. You missed your opportunity
> for
> social inclusion by opting for the role of outcast. You rescue people
> from unfortunate countries of anti-freedom while your own life is
> unfree.
I just bought a car. So I'm free now :)
> Yes, however capitalism is restrained by anti-trust law.
Yes!
This is why GoGoD doesn't have a chance in winning a Europeas Database
Directive suit because they are abusing their monopoly!
Thanks for proving my point.
> Cite? ( The "goes around comes around" hypothesis gains momentum. )
I cited above. One of dozens of similar utterings done over three postings.
Vile tripe. Posting long lists of "bugs" and "flaws", most of it lies.
The only person ever to do that, and it was GoGoD.
> I can't say that any smearing was unreasonable.
How do you know? I consider this an admission that you have in your
possession an illegal copy of my software.
> I suppose that's a classic example of analogical fallacy &
> red-herring?
> So you are now becoming the "Saddam Hussein" of the Go Community?
Yes. He was a man with extremely strong ethics, similar to Ghadaffi. The guy
even threatened to put his own son in jail - for years - if he would not
shape up and behave. Ghadaffi has nothing to do with Lockerbie (done by Iran
as retalliation for the US shooting down on of their passenger airliners),
but he paid up nevertheless. Saddam fell victim to his naivety. He got
screwed by his own people, who started torturing and killing for their own
nefarious purposes. Saddam himself was a kind and gentle man. Well, except
for those thousands of communists he killed, at the request of the country
you insists of paying taxtes to :-)
> He conspired with whom?
With Thomas Wolf.
> When you remarket GoGoD's scummy games in Japan, you are not scum?
Ask them. I am just the messenger.
> Which is precisely what you criticize about monopolistic competitors.
> You have become exactly what you say you hate, which was your destiny.
Liar!
Am I preventing others from using any Go games?
Am I asking websites not to link to others?
Am I asking retaires not to carry other software?
Am I lobbying SL to remove other's ads?
Am I submitting frivolous Copyright violation requests to other's webhosts?
Am I complaining to other's ISP's?
Frank de Groot
--
"Jews are spawn of satan and going to hell"
-Jeff Boscole on rec.games.go (October 10, 2006).
Jeff Nowakowski
> How do you like my new signature?
I think it suits you perfectly.
-Jeff
Frank de Groot
>
> -Jeff
Nobody asked you anything.
If you want to sympathise with someone who openly flaunts racial hatred, go
right ahead.
If you agree so much with antisemitism that you have to shout from the
rooftops how much you disagree with exposing it - so much the worse for you.
Jeff Nowakowski
> Nobody asked you anything.
Really? I could have sworn you posted in a public newsgroup asking for
opinions.
> If you want to sympathise with someone who openly flaunts racial hatred, go
> right ahead.
Who said I was? Aren't you the one who has publically admitted to being
a holocaust denier?
-Jeff
Frank de Groot
> Really? I could have sworn you posted in a public newsgroup asking for
> opinions.
I posted a reply to jb under his posting, n00b.
As you have perhaps noticed, I am talking to/with Jeff Boscole (you know,
that guy who said Jews are spawn of Satan), and I asked him a question.
> Who said I was? Aren't you the one who has publically admitted to being a
> holocaust denier?
Cheap discussion trick.
I deny that the Holocaust went exactly like it has been purported to have
went.
That's all.
I wonder what compels you to defend the phrase "Jews are the spawn of
Satan".
Personally, I hate Israel as a country and the Israeli goverment in
particular, but to say Jews are spawn of Satan and will go to hell is a
terrible statement. It is putting all Jews under the same classification of
being "of Satan". It's dehumanizing them, claiming they are vermin to be
destroyed.
When you say that all Jews are "spawn of Satan", I think that qualifies for
just about the worst REAL antisemitic utterance I have ever read.
I'm amazed you are not shy to offer your support for this tripe, Mr.
Nowakowski.
Jeff Nowakowski
> I'm amazed you are not shy to offer your support for this tripe, Mr.
> Nowakowski.
I didn't show support for it (and to be clear, I find it vile). I just
said the sig suited you.
-Jeff