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Locked out of LifeIn19
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Mark Steere
Aug 20, 2012, 7:47:07 PM8/20/12
to
It was kind of pussyish for Joaz to lock me out without any warning or
explanation. A while back he sent me a message that I was violating
TOS by not respecting other members. Since then, I went out of my way
not to disrespect other members, and to abide by any imaginable TOS
rules, though admittedly I didn't read it. I wish there was some way
to contact Joaz to discuss that, but there's no access to forums or
messages. One minute I'm complaining about Kaya, and the next minute
I'm locked out. Kaya isn't a member, and even if it were, I wasn't
disrespecting it. Just offering constructive criticism. Don't be
such a pussy, Joaz.
explanation. A while back he sent me a message that I was violating
TOS by not respecting other members. Since then, I went out of my way
not to disrespect other members, and to abide by any imaginable TOS
rules, though admittedly I didn't read it. I wish there was some way
to contact Joaz to discuss that, but there's no access to forums or
messages. One minute I'm complaining about Kaya, and the next minute
I'm locked out. Kaya isn't a member, and even if it were, I wasn't
disrespecting it. Just offering constructive criticism. Don't be
such a pussy, Joaz.
Robert Jasiek
Aug 21, 2012, 3:04:38 AM8/21/12
to
Mark Steere wrote:
>Kaya [...] Just offering constructive criticism.
Which message(s)?
>Kaya [...] Just offering constructive criticism.
Which message(s)?
Mark Steere
Aug 21, 2012, 10:25:27 AM8/21/12
to
had asked my opponent to make a few moves as fast as possible, which
he agreed to do. Then there was a few seconds of lag on his
subsequent moves. That's exactly what I reported on L19, and that I
felt it was pretty essential to straighten that out. Later, it turned
out I was wrong. My opponent had not moved as fast as possible. When
I tried to apologize for my error, I found I was completely locked
out.
Later I was notified by email that there was a message in L19, and
when I went to check it out, I was notified that I wasn't allowed to
access private messages. I thought it might be a message from Joaz.
At one point, I had made a fairly significant donation to L19, and so
I thought I could expect at least a word of explanation. But no.
Classic moderator puss out. Lock the member out, with no possible
option for communication. I always thought that was pussyish when I'd
seen it done on other forums, but now I know first hand. Joaz is a
major pussy.
Mark Steere
Aug 21, 2012, 11:53:39 AM8/21/12
to
Basically there was a consensus at L19 of "You're not even a Go
player, so why are you here complaining about Kaya?" I found that to
be infantile and snotty, and I'm surprised Joaz bought into it. Some
Kaya members felt that I had been "abrasive" at L19. I suppose it's
relative. If you go to an ass kissing convention ("We should be
thankful to the Kaya developers for the privilege of participating,
and we should avoid offending them, yada, yada, yada") and you're the
only one not kissing ass, you might appear abrasive in contrast.
It's true that I'm not a Go player. I'm not a serious player of any
games except one of my own, Oust. I think very highly of (hex board)
Oust, which is not as natural as you might expect. I don't regularly
play any of my other games, including the popular ones such as
Cephalopod and Atoll, which have been played tens of thousands of
times at various game sites. Ego, bias, etc. won't motivate you to
play your own five year old game hundreds of times. You have to
really enjoy it.
http://www.marksteeregames.com/Oust_rules.pdf
I feel a kinship with Go, even though I'm not a player. Together with
Reversi, Go was my inspiration for getting into design twenty years
ago. Since then I've invented several games for the goban.
http://www.marksteeregames.com/MSG_abstract_games.html
http://www.marksteeregames.com/MSG_connection_games.html
A Kaya member told me "You could be a player." My response was "You
could be a designer." How many hats must I wear?
I have played Go a few times, always ending in frustration, but I
haven't given up. I will take another look at the tutorials at some
point, which I've started into several times but haven't completed.
I've heard a criticism of Go (not from Go lifers of course) that it's
no deeper than many modern games - something I wholeheartedly
believe. But in Go's favor, it's a survivor. Not every ancient game
has spanned the centuries. Many have fallen by the wayside. Go is
also organic. It's based on a simple, fairly obvious mechanism. If
Go had not been invented before now, it would certainly be invented by
me or one of my fellow designers. Go has to exist on any intelligent
planet (as must Oust), and odds are in favor of Go's (and Oust's)
indefinite survival in the universe.
Admittedly I'm a Go outsider. Even in abstract games I'm somewhat of
an outsider. I designed most of my games in a vacuum, so to speak,
having no knowledge of existing abstract games. Gradually I've come
to learn a thing or two about the world of abstract games, but I'm
still pretty naive (though it hasn't stopped me from creating superior
games).
At L19 I was constantly vilified by the members. Shit like "So you're
a designer, huh?" And "What if nobody plays your games?"
Yes, I'm a designer. My games are played at 16 games sites, far more
than any other designer.
http://www.marksteeregames.com/MSG_game_sites.html
The notion that nobody plays my games is fucking absurd. My games
have been played many tens of thousands of times (verifiably), perhaps
even going into the hundreds of thousands (no stats available at
megasites Ludoteka and ItsYourTurn).
-Mark
Mark Steere Games
http://www.marksteeregames.com/index.html
player, so why are you here complaining about Kaya?" I found that to
be infantile and snotty, and I'm surprised Joaz bought into it. Some
Kaya members felt that I had been "abrasive" at L19. I suppose it's
relative. If you go to an ass kissing convention ("We should be
thankful to the Kaya developers for the privilege of participating,
and we should avoid offending them, yada, yada, yada") and you're the
only one not kissing ass, you might appear abrasive in contrast.
It's true that I'm not a Go player. I'm not a serious player of any
games except one of my own, Oust. I think very highly of (hex board)
Oust, which is not as natural as you might expect. I don't regularly
play any of my other games, including the popular ones such as
Cephalopod and Atoll, which have been played tens of thousands of
times at various game sites. Ego, bias, etc. won't motivate you to
play your own five year old game hundreds of times. You have to
really enjoy it.
http://www.marksteeregames.com/Oust_rules.pdf
I feel a kinship with Go, even though I'm not a player. Together with
Reversi, Go was my inspiration for getting into design twenty years
ago. Since then I've invented several games for the goban.
http://www.marksteeregames.com/MSG_abstract_games.html
http://www.marksteeregames.com/MSG_connection_games.html
A Kaya member told me "You could be a player." My response was "You
could be a designer." How many hats must I wear?
I have played Go a few times, always ending in frustration, but I
haven't given up. I will take another look at the tutorials at some
point, which I've started into several times but haven't completed.
I've heard a criticism of Go (not from Go lifers of course) that it's
no deeper than many modern games - something I wholeheartedly
believe. But in Go's favor, it's a survivor. Not every ancient game
has spanned the centuries. Many have fallen by the wayside. Go is
also organic. It's based on a simple, fairly obvious mechanism. If
Go had not been invented before now, it would certainly be invented by
me or one of my fellow designers. Go has to exist on any intelligent
planet (as must Oust), and odds are in favor of Go's (and Oust's)
indefinite survival in the universe.
Admittedly I'm a Go outsider. Even in abstract games I'm somewhat of
an outsider. I designed most of my games in a vacuum, so to speak,
having no knowledge of existing abstract games. Gradually I've come
to learn a thing or two about the world of abstract games, but I'm
still pretty naive (though it hasn't stopped me from creating superior
games).
At L19 I was constantly vilified by the members. Shit like "So you're
a designer, huh?" And "What if nobody plays your games?"
Yes, I'm a designer. My games are played at 16 games sites, far more
than any other designer.
http://www.marksteeregames.com/MSG_game_sites.html
The notion that nobody plays my games is fucking absurd. My games
have been played many tens of thousands of times (verifiably), perhaps
even going into the hundreds of thousands (no stats available at
megasites Ludoteka and ItsYourTurn).
-Mark
Mark Steere Games
http://www.marksteeregames.com/index.html
Robert Jasiek
Aug 21, 2012, 1:01:55 PM8/21/12
to
Mark Steere wrote:
>Joaz is a major pussy.
Suppose we ignore your personal opinion about Joaz for the moment and
>Joaz is a major pussy.
assume your report as matter of facts, then you appear to have helped
possibly making Kaya a better server and got punished for doing so.
However, your personal attack style comments and failure to state the
relevant messages cast doubts.
Robert Jasiek
Aug 21, 2012, 1:10:27 PM8/21/12
to
Mark Steere wrote:
>It's true that I'm not a Go player.
Every server should appreciate also non-Go players as testers because
>It's true that I'm not a Go player.
this can possibly contribute to promoting the game: making servers
beginner-friendly.
>I've heard a criticism of Go (not from Go lifers of course) that it's
>no deeper than many modern games - something I wholeheartedly
>believe.
modern games?
>Not every ancient game has spanned the centuries.
>If
>Go had not been invented before now, it would certainly be invented by
>me or one of my fellow designers.
something similar.
>Go has to exist on any intelligent planet
gets such a game. E.g., a game could let stones be placed in the
facets instead of on the intersections.
>My games are played at 16 games sites, far more
>than any other designer.
Mark Steere
Aug 21, 2012, 2:15:20 PM8/21/12
to
On Aug 21, 10:10 am, Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de> wrote:
> >
> I don't get it: do you belief that Go is deeper or no deeper than
> many modern games?
I believe that some modern games must be just as deep as Go. One is
> >
> I don't get it: do you belief that Go is deeper or no deeper than
> many modern games?
expected to play Go 100 times. Why don't you play Oust 100 times and
make a case that Go is deeper. I could use a good laugh.
> >Not every ancient game has spanned the centuries.
>
> Millenia:)
>
> > If
> > Go had not been invented before now, it would certainly be
> > invented by me or one of my fellow designers.
>
> It is not straightforward to reinvent exactly a same game but
> surely something similar.
talking about the surround-and-capture mechanism on a square grid of
some size. Two players, two different colored stones, etc.
> E.g., a game could let stones be placed in the
> facets instead of on the intersections.
> >My games are played at 16 games sites, far more
> >than any other designer.
>
> Great, but irrelevant here:)
the dog shit on Steve Jobs' (estate's) lawn, a block from where I
live.
Robert Jasiek
Aug 22, 2012, 6:15:58 AM8/22/12
to
Mark Steere wrote:
>I believe that some modern games must be just as deep as Go.
One does not need to play a game to judge about its complexity. E.g.,
>I believe that some modern games must be just as deep as Go.
mathematical evaluation of complexity classes is possible in
principle.
>I'm
>talking about the surround-and-capture mechanism on a square grid of
>some size. Two players, two different colored stones, etc.
arbitrary planet.
>That's a cosmetic parameter that means exactly shit squat.
allow and still call it "Go".
>I don't give a fuck what you consider relevant here. I'll talk about
>the dog shit on Steve Jobs' (estate's) lawn, a block from where I
>live.
discussion with yourself only.
Mark Steere
Aug 22, 2012, 10:27:14 AM8/22/12
to
On Aug 22, 3:15 am, Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de> wrote:
pre-invented than re-invented.
> > I don't give a fuck what you consider relevant here. I'll talk
> > about the dog shit on Steve Jobs' (estate's) lawn, a block
> > from where I live.
>
> Fuck, shit etc. If you don't choose proper language, you
> continue discussion with yourself only.
Fucking fine. You're boring the shit out of me with your stupidity.
> Mark Steere wrote:
> >
> > I'm talking about the surround-and-capture mechanism on
> > a square grid of some size. Two players, two different colored
> > stones, etc.
>
> Sure, and reinventing exactly this is not straightforward on an
> arbitrary planet.
It couldn't possibly be more straightforward. And it's more likely
> >
> > I'm talking about the surround-and-capture mechanism on
> > a square grid of some size. Two players, two different colored
> > stones, etc.
>
> Sure, and reinventing exactly this is not straightforward on an
> arbitrary planet.
pre-invented than re-invented.
> > I don't give a fuck what you consider relevant here. I'll talk
> > about the dog shit on Steve Jobs' (estate's) lawn, a block
> > from where I live.
>
> Fuck, shit etc. If you don't choose proper language, you
> continue discussion with yourself only.
coyo...@gmail.com
Aug 23, 2012, 5:00:56 PM8/23/12
to
marks...@gmail.com
Aug 23, 2012, 6:32:59 PM8/23/12
to
Coyote wrote:
>
> No clue why you'd get banned.
Me neither. Joaz is apparently under the impression that he didn't lock me out. Only that he was restricting my future posts subject to moderator review. That leaves two likely possibilities. Either he accidentally banned me, or shit streak tchan001 took it upon himself to ban me without telling anyone.
>
> No clue why you'd get banned.
> Maybe they were threatened by your
> design skills?
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