OT: U.K. Government will spy on every call and e-mail
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882600.ece
The Sunday Times
October 5, 2008
Government will spy on every call and e-mail
David Leppard
Ministers are considering spending up to £12 billion on a database to monitor
and store the internet browsing habits, e-mail and telephone records of
everyone in Britain.
GCHQ, the government’s eavesdropping centre, has already been given up to £1
billion to finance the first stage of the project.
Hundreds of clandestine probes will be installed to monitor customers live on
two of the country’s biggest internet and mobile phone providers - thought to
be BT and Vodafone. BT has nearly 5m internet customers.
Ministers are braced for a backlash similar to the one caused by their ID
cards programme. Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “Any
suggestion of the government using existing powers to intercept communications
data without public discussion is going to sound extremely sinister.”
MI5 currently conducts limited e-mail and website intercepts which are
approved under specific warrants by the home secretary.
Further details of the new plan will be unveiled next month in the Queen’s
speech.
The Home Office stressed no formal decision had been taken but sources said
officials had made clear that ministers had agreed “in principle” to the
programme.
Officials claim live monitoring is necessary to fight terrorism and crime.
However, critics question whether such a vast system can be kept secure. A
total of 57 billion text messages were sent in the UK last year - 1,800 every
second.
Related Links
There’s no hiding place as spy HQ plans to see all
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882622.ece
First ID cards are to be issued within weeks
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4825353.ece
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This is DESPICABLE!! CALL THIS A FREE COUNTRY?? This should be opposed
vehemently, the Government cannot be trusted, anyone who lets the Government
take their liberties does not deserve freedom.
The old USSR would be proud!!
Art, Glasgow, UK
Nothing to do with terrorism. Just who is with them and who is against.
tim waite, redditch, england
Anyone in favour of this "measure" should ask themselves two simple questions:
1. What percentage on one percent of all communications contain terrorist
intent?
2. What percentage on one percent of the population have been victims of a
terrorist even?
Hardly a proportionate measure then...
Paul Pinfield, Worksop,
As an American of English decent I look with horror at the erosion of privacy
and civil rights in both our countries. Where is the outrage? This behaviour
is reminiscient of the former USSR, not the UK. We're racing to the bottom.
Larry R. Fuller, Poulsbo, WA, USA
Totalitarian Britain still lectures Russia on 'dimaacracy'. Wake up UK!
John F., London, UK
To help stop this kind of thing, join the No2ID and the Database State
campaign and register you support to stop this insidious action coming in to
play. It's a non-partisan, single issue campaign, so anyone is welcome, as
long as they are against having our civil liberties snatched away!
Tom Read, Manchester, UK
This has nothing to do with ant-terrorism and everything to do with
totalitarianism.
New Labour is showing its true colours under Gordon Brown and we must fight
against this and many other Labour government attacks on our basic freedom and
way of life.
Peter, London,
I resigned from GCHQ's R&D dept back in 1997, coincidentally the year Labour
came to power, when in-house technical staff were being replaced by
bureaucrats and outsourcing. So I suspect the £1billion will be sucked up by
the usual IT consultancies - in exchange for a system that doesn't work.
Chris, Cheltenham, UK
Of course "Officials claim live monitoring is necessary to fight terrorism and
crime" when you have a government of political failures who have literally
imported terrorists and criminals as part of an uncontrolled wave of
immigration designed to prop up their vote. As for 'Wet Cameron', I despair..
Paul Williams, London, England
Britain is ripe pickings to become a totalitarian state. The media lost all
sense of objectivity some time ago and fit the news around their own agendas.
Nobody wants human rights. Everyone wants more police and tougher laws.
Everyone is afraid of the person next to them, and so on and so forth.
John Edwards, London, Little England
All in the name of national security (sic!). The only threat to people in this
country is this government. Whatever happened to freedom of speech, the right
not to have a government interfere in my private life? This government will
fall because it is so paranoid.
steve tea, manchester, cheshire
How many USBs, CDs and laptops will they have to lose to reveal all this
information to the general public? Or are they going to save time and just
post it all online immediately?
Rowan, Hereford,
I think NuLab forgot that it is important to slowly boil you all or else you
are going to jump of the pot. It is now time for all you Brits to get out on
the street and make your anger heard. If you don't put a stop to this, the
rest of the 'democratic' world will contine to copy NuLabs fascism.
chris, Melbourne,
what is frightening about this is that the Tories are so quiet on the issue.
Where they do take a stand, they are totally schizophrenic, e.g. dropping the
ID card yet sign up to the full EU biometric passport - which uses the same
technology but on a larger scale.
For Gods sake Cameron, wake up.
Clint, Liverpool,
This plan only expands what is already being done. If you live in the UK, send
yourself two consecutive emails; the first including something like 'Kill
Gordon Brown' and the second saying 'Must invite Gordon to dinner'. You will
most likely find that the latter arrives at your in-box first.
Richard Crow , Warsaw, Poland
I thought they already did this
It truly shows that new technology is but a new form of tyranny. A slavery and
a window into the souls of men undreamed of by all the tyrants of history.
keith bentham, Wigan, uk
Anyone would think the government is awash with money, although they won't
spend it on the NHS, education, or cutting crime.
They spend their money on their subversive, pet projects, some of which
criminalise law abiding citizens and give free rein to criminals.
N. Simon, London,
The conservatives have supported most of NuLabs Orwellian legislation and
policies. It's the same in the US and Australia, both political sides just as
bad as each other when it comes to taking power from the people and giving it
to politicians. Two party politics are corrupt, incestuous duopolies.
chris, Melbourne,
We live on a beautiful island, with amazing nature all around us. It's a shame
that the head cases have been put in charge. I'm gonna carry on writing emails
slagging them off though, because if everybody does it what are they gonna do?
The Government are driving my self promotion, not security.
Jay Davies, Plymouth, USUK
Surely this is a breach of Article 8 of the ECHR?
Bob, London,
this government has assembled all the requirements of a truely totalitarian
state - all that is needed is someone to light the blue touch paper.
Crest, St Peter Port,
Thats an awfully lot of money to spend reading and storing viagra junk mail!
Mark, galsgow,
Sounds like the stasi state is fast gathering pace. What next, ID cards with
blue tooth technology and a sensor on every CCTV camera? Freedom and democracy
is fast dying in this country and the 'if you've done nothing wrong, you've
got nothing to hide' bridage need to wake up.
Mike Smith, NORWICH, UK
I thought they already did all this anyway
Tom Mann, Hove, UK
Those of us who have a professional interest in Data Protection and Freedom of
Information issues have been aware of this project for a while.
To those that say “if you’ve got nothing to hide, you’ve got nothing to worry
about” we say, this needs to be balanced against the presumption of innocence,
a fundamental principle of British justice.
The British justice system is built upon this principle and if this principle
falls, the British justice system may start to rock!
Malcolm, Jersey, Channel Islands
I see this as no more than another sacred cow (like the dome) for the chosen
few to profit from. When one old cow dries up another is created Iraq will be
ending soon (costing too much) so the search for the next cow has started.
john ferguson, lewis, uk
So we've got Big Brother in No.10 and now Lord Voldemort in The Lords.
Remember the words 'Land of Hope & Glory, mother of the free.' Whoever would
have thought, even 15 years ago, that the most advanced Police State in the
world would be the UK. Anyone who votes Labour must need their brain tested.
Donna Walker, Effingham, England
:-D
This from the same government who messed up the NHS, Child Support, ID &
countless other databases. I have no fear of this at all, as there is no way
this incompetent shower would ever get it to work. More worrying is the
taxpayers money being thrown away, AGAIN!
Gary, London, UK
Dont they relise that 1984 was fiction not a guide?
Mitch, Wolverhampton, England
How will they read them all? It takes me the best part of the day just to get
through my own.
Presumably they're planning to include a spam filter?
Tom, Paris, FRANCE
This outrage is Britain's Patriot Act except they don't even seem to be
bringing it before Parliament. Where are the Tories? Will they promise to
disasemble it? I doubt it. Once a govt gets control they are always loathe to
give up power.
William, Guildford, UK
It's nice to know that the UK can spend billions and billions on war,
administration , civil service costs ad infinitum at a time I thought
government was falling apart! Perhaps printing money is the secret elixir of
political life! My faith has never been that strong! It will all end in tears!
Brian Lewis, Manila, Philippines
As time goes by the idea that we are on the way to a police state seems less
and less outlandish
Dan , Winchester, England
Bring back Stalin at least you had some freedom!! and I bet this e-mail is
beinmg monitored. So who is monitoring the monitors. I bet the Government
minsters are not being spied on.
chris, Bonnes , France
The Tories must pledge that, when they come to power in 18 months' time, this
outrageous, headlong rush towards total physical and electronic surveilliance
of the whole British people will not only be ended, but dismantled. Our
country increasingly reminds me of East Germany.
Steven Davidson, Colchester, England
Repulsive. Is there any depth which government will not plumb?
John Louis Swaine, Colchester, United Kingdom
Welcome to HM Open Prison UK
mark hood, london, uk
get rid of this control freak government they are taking away our every human
right they should be charged and thrown in the tower
de, london, england
This sounds rather like the GDR to me. Fortunately we don't have a wall around
us (yet), so people could actually leave.
Esther, Newcastle,
People will fight this loss of freedom to there human rights Brown and co will
not get away with it, if and there is an uprising the authorities do not have
enough people to control it you could end up with civil war in this country
de, london, england
Tighten the boarders and you wont need a scheme like this
de, london, england
Ah, now it is clear what the government will do with the additional 1 million
unemployed - checking our email and text messages and scouting for mine shafts
to store the data.
C Jenkins, Hitchin,
just another piece of our orwellian society
glen, Auckland, New Zealand
Then they'll save it all onto a couple of memory sticks and lose it on a train
somewhere.
Isn't there something better that this useless NuLab Govt can spend £12bn on?
After all there is an econimic recession on the horizon or does Gorden still
believe he ended boom and bust?
John Goode, Welwyn Garden City, UK
Then I suppose, at least some of it will go missing, if not all of it? So much
for privacy!
margie , victoria, australia
Loathe to say anything because the Government will record the comments and I
might be held to account at some future date. I didn't use to be paranoid!
Andrew, Scalloway,
Welcome to Nanny Britain, why not find a way to stop teenager's being knifed
to death on our streets rather then spend billion's on 'spying'...
Tim, London, United Kingdom
We know how this will go. First they will say that it is to catch
'terrorists', then there will be 'mission creep' and before long all our
online behaviour will be being scrutinized by council workers and sold to
private companies.
Election please, before its too late!
Jack, York,
Labour's obsession with snooping on your private life continues
unabated.......vote them out, you know it makes sense.
sedgwick, London, UK
This could be so easy to sabotage with mass spoof criminal / terrorist emails
etc, sent by annoyed public or hackers just for the hell of it , Sifting all
the data could solve the unemployment problem in the third world for the next
100 years, think it thru there are better ways to waste our money
am, letchworth,
Big Brother is watching you. Big Brother is always watching you.
Bruce L. Northwood, Washington, D.C., USA
But why? Terrorism is merely a convenient excuse. A more likely explanation is
that the state itself is paranoid. It cannot fear a few terrorists, but it can
fear the very population that it is there to protect. Does it foresee massive
civil disquiet in the near future?
Dwight Vandryver, Scholar Green, UK
As a security expert I wonder if this is money well spent. The real criminals
and people who need to hide information, will encrypt all their e-mails and
VOIP calls. Setup fake identities with e-mail addresses,and then piggyback
communications on various open Wifi, proxies or tojaned PC's available
richard, London, UK
I still don't hear the Tories saying they will repeal all these big brother
laws, rules and regs?????
Peter, Stoke on Trent, England. UK
Why? No other 'free' country would consider this intrusive Police State to be
normal. Britain has the Govt it deserves clearly. Good luck to you all as the
iron curtainn descends on you.
Oliver Wrathall, Normanton, Australia
As an ex-pat looking in, it seems that the Labour government has done enormous
damage to Britain, economically, culturally and socially. The people to blame
are those who voted for them, or failed to vote against them. Apathy rules.
Kevin, Melbourne, Australia
What's a good date for public protest (peaceful of course) against this police
state they're building? November 5th?
If we, the people, aren't going to publicly protest against such a blatant
move to build a police state...
We must act before it's too late.
Simon, Brentwood, UK
Only in their dreams! And what strange dreams!!
Right thinking MP`s, of all poltical persuasions, would not allow it to pass.
If, perchance and heaven forbid, it should get through the House of Commons
then the bulwark that is of the House of Lords would maul it beyond
recognition.
Anthony Borge, South Ockendon, UK
As unpleasant and intrusive as this scheme may be, it is simply too massive
and the government too incompetent for it to function on any meaningful level.
andrew williams, roquefort les pins, france
Life immitating art:
the art?
"1984"
and
"Brazil"
but of course, my mentioning these will be monitored and
assessed for sedition, on both sides of the Atlantic . . . and who exactly won
WW II, the cold war, and 9/11/2001?
Time will tell!
Rev Dr Randolph WB Becker, Key West, Conch Republic
This is a top reason for us abandoning dear old Blighty earlier this year.
Miss you dearly, but I'm not being watched as I write this, nor every time I
go out. Good luck, you're going to need it.
Steve L, Katikati, New Zealand
I am amazed that the British public allow Government to impose these '1984'
style measures. As their is so little resistance I conclude you have the
Government you deserve
ICM, Jacksonville, USA
They'll be refusing to hold a General Election next ...... totalitarianism
here we come.
Roger Lorton, Nongprue, Thailand
See, this is the path that any British government can go down without your
consent for a few reasons. Because there's no written constitution, the
precise words of which would be much more difficult to circumvent, they can
just dream up this stuff and do it because they can...
John Rankin, Auburn, WA, USA
Shows how the people we entrust with the running of our countries, trust us.
Its a case of the nuts running the nut house.
Udo, Melbourne, Australia
Get high grade encryption software (e.g. PGP) and start using it... spread it
around to everyone you can persuade to use it. Yes, I know GCHQ can crack the
codes, but only by deploying prohibitively expensive computing power. They
couldn't monitor everyone.
John Rankin, Auburn, WA, USA
Ian Dickson, I am in the same position as you, except I baled out in 2003
thanks to the Iraq blunder. Otherwise, I agree with you completely. I have
never seen a government so out of touch with reality.
Keith, Beaconsfield,
I despise this governments constant attempts at turning this country in to a
sophisticated police state. A measure like this is incredibly sinister. This
is one step away from permanent audio and visual surveillance of every
individual in this country. I despair the lack of outrage
Will, Edinburgh, UK
if this goes ahead there goes the last vestiges of personal privacy & security
goes too. They have become more Orwellian than George himself. When will these
people realise that they do not have the inalienable right to do what they
want on a whim & we do not belong to them. TIME TO GET THEM OUT!
zugerman, zurich, switzerland
one policy of institutionally corrupt nulabor is Control or Destroy
the brown stuff can't control nulabor, so he will destroy it
martin, sheffield, uk
I really really wish that I could have read this on the 1st of April; but this
government treats every morning as April Fools day.
With our taxes wasted on new aircraft carriers, ID cards, son-of-Trident and
endless foreign wars, it's no wonder the govt is so scared that it wants to
spy on us all.
Claire, Bradford, West Yorkshire
Big Brother is watching you. Big Brother is always
watching you.
Bruce L. Northwood, Washington, D.C., USA
Sometimes, I really wonder if the tin foil hatters have actually got things
right. A single banking system and a single police state government to rule us
all.
Patrick Bateman, London,
Britain is on the verge of being a total suveillance society and no one seems
in the least bit bothered. In London there is now a high definition facial
recognition technology compatible CCTV camera on every street corner. It feels
like living in a prison yard. Resist before it's too late
paul, london,
This just shows that NuLab have lost the plot completely and will thoroughly
deserve the beating they'll get in the next General Election. I've voted
Labour all my life but I will NEVER do so again so if the Tories want my vote
(and countless others, no doubt) they know what they have to do.
Ian Dickson, Brighton, UK
2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.
z1
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4882600.ece
>
> The Sunday Times
> October 5, 2008
>
> Government will spy on every call and e-mail
> David Leppard
>
>
so what have the Chinese got to be worried about, when the world is
coming to them :)
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z1 <z...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> so what have the Chinese got to be worried about,
> when the world is coming to them :)
I suppose that if Armageddon were happening everywhere
then there's no worry if the entire species becomes extinct...
- regards
- jb
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Zionist Stranglehold over American Politics
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/pledege_dees.jpg
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z1
> z1 <z...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> so what have the Chinese got to be worried about,
>> when the world is coming to them :)
>
>
> I suppose that if Armageddon were happening everywhere
> then there's no worry if the entire species becomes extinct...
>
>
obviously it might then be too late . .
your point being?