KGS: resuming a game against a bot
Dan Amodeo
be interrupted before it is finished by something I could not ignore. I don't
think it would be fair to a human player to just leave the game, or even to resign
unless I was clearly losing, before the game is over. But I guess a computer
player ("bot") wouldn't mind, and I hope its programmer or "owner" wouldn't mind
too much either.
Here is my question: Suppose I start a game on KGS and have to leave before the
game is over. Suppose I don't resign but just leave the game and log off KGS. If I
am free to continue playing a half hour later, can I use the RESUME button to
resume the game with the bot? If so, do I have to wait for the bot to finish its
current game before hitting the resume button (and risk having it start another
game with someone else), or could I use the resume button to restart the game and
then just sit and wait till the bot is finished with its current game?
By the way, I have never used the resume button on KGS, even against a human, so I
don't know how it works.
--
Dan Amodeo
E-mail: take my last name, all lower case, put a seven in the middle,
then add at earthlink dot net
Xerxes
>
> Here is my question: Suppose I start a game on KGS and have to leave before the
> game is over. Suppose I don't resign but just leave the game and log off KGS. If I
> am free to continue playing a half hour later,
If you kickout of the game it will then show up in your games list in
italics script.
OK, so to resume it, load it into English room and away you go.
If opponent is busy or not available then you will be informed.
Hans-Georg Michna
>Sometimes I feel like playing go, but I don't start a game because I think I may
>be interrupted before it is finished by something I could not ignore. I don't
>think it would be fair to a human player to just leave the game, or even to resign
>unless I was clearly losing, before the game is over. But I guess a computer
>player ("bot") wouldn't mind, and I hope its programmer or "owner" wouldn't mind
>too much either.
Dan,
I think, that is correct.
>Here is my question: Suppose I start a game on KGS and have to leave before the
>game is over. Suppose I don't resign but just leave the game and log off KGS. If I
>am free to continue playing a half hour later, can I use the RESUME button to
>resume the game with the bot?
Yes.
>If so, do I have to wait for the bot to finish its
>current game before hitting the resume button (and risk having it start another
>game with someone else), or could I use the resume button to restart the game and
>then just sit and wait till the bot is finished with its current game?
Just try it. I don't know. It's easy enough to find out.
Then please report here what you found.
>By the way, I have never used the resume button on KGS, even against a human, so I
>don't know how it works.
It works. (:-)
By the way, the current bot connector program appears to have at
least one defect. When the bot gets disconnected and reconnects,
often the opponent finds an automatically forfeited game.
I hadn't seen that before. It used to be that the bot, when it
gets restarted, automatically rejoins a still open game. I don't
know details, haven't observed this systematically.
The web site of the bot wrapper also doesn't show any way to
hand in software problem reports, so I don't know what will
happen.
Hans-Georg
--
No mail, please.
Mef
>least one defect. When the bot gets disconnected and reconnects,
>often the opponent finds an automatically forfeited game.
If the bot has frequent connection problems, and does not resume and
finish its games, then it will be labelled a chronic escaper and
forfeit games just like any other user on KGS.
Hans-Georg Michna
Mef,
sure, but that's very unlikely to happen. The bots play immense
numbers of games, and the vast majority is not broken by
disconnection. After all, they can play non-stop for 24 hours a
day.
Mef
to get labelled as an escaper. If they get disconnected more than 10
times in a 6 month period, then there is a very good chance they are
now thought of as an escaper.
Chris Brownell @
Hmmm... Don't you think they might have special-cased that rule for the
bots? If I was programming the site, that's what I woulda done....
- Chris
Mef
do so immediately. I don't see why any special case should be made for
bots as far as the escaper policy goes (I do believe there was a bit of
debate before even allowing them on KGS, then more before letting them
get ranked, I imagine at the least there would be a bit more before
letting them get around the escaper policy). It wouldn't be too
difficult for someone to make an "escaperBot" or even for someone to
use the GTP engine to just have an escaper account. If the bot really
has that many connection problems, and doesn't resume games, I don't
see why it shouldn't forfeit.
Hans-Georg Michna
>[...] If the bot really
>has that many connection problems, and doesn't resume games, I don't
>see why it shouldn't forfeit.
Mef,
currently I see the opposite problem. A go bot "escapes" due to
a disconnection or because I have to stop it, and the opponent's
game gets forfeited. The bot wins undeservedly.
Looks like a defect to me.
And it's really stupid that there is no good way to stop a bot.
I hope they change that soon.
And another observation on the sidelines: bots are immensely
popular. You can throw as many bots at the KGS Social, Computer
Go room as you like, they'll all be taken up and be busy day and
night. A very good reason to play a bot is for a beginner to get
a rank without question mark.
Hans-Georg Michna
Mef,
I thought the judgment works on percentages, not on absolute
numbers. A rule that depends on playing frequency is a bad rule.
Mef
It does work a percentage (you cannot escape more than 10% of your
games), but the number of games you must escape to be labelled an
escaper won't be smaller than 3 or larger than 10 no matter how many
games you play, so once you play more than 100 games you just have to
escape 11 times to have a loss by forfeit.
Mef
Hans-Georg Michna
Mef,
thanks for the info!
This formula is a bit strange, as people (and computers) have
much more widely varying playing frequencies.
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> This formula is a bit strange, as people (and computers) have
> much more widely varying playing frequencies.
I think the point is that *any* escaping to avoid a loss constitutes
cheating. If a problem is repeated that much, then one acquires a
certain responsibility to deal with it. Failing to meet that
responsibility suggests complicity in the behavior.
It is not like we want to say that you can cheat on 10% of your games,
but no more.
In this case, the bots could avoid this little problem by not starting
games they cannot finish, same as people, or by resigning games when
their server is about to reboot, rather than just escaping.
Thomas
Patrick Bridges
incomplete, but they're not marked as having escaped it, so it won't
count against them for starting to forfeit games.
Patrick Bridges
Oops, when *their* server is about to reboot. I see - my mistake. :)
-Patrick
Xiaoding
just trying it, since there seems to be something stopping you from
just trying it to see. What mysterious force, what unseen destiny, is
stopping you from simply doing it? I hope I am never afflicted with
this strange and mystifying disease, which somehow paralyses the hands
and mouse finger. I suggest a visit to the emergency room as a start.
Hans-Georg Michna
>I think the point is that *any* escaping to avoid a loss constitutes
>cheating. If a problem is repeated that much, then one acquires a
>certain responsibility to deal with it. Failing to meet that
>responsibility suggests complicity in the behavior.
>
>It is not like we want to say that you can cheat on 10% of your games,
>but no more.
Thomas,
one of the problems is a flaw of kgsGtp.jar as provided by KGS.
There is no sensible way to stop a bot, so every time I want to
stop bots, for example because the computer needs to be rebooted
or is needed for other purposes, all bots have to be cut off.
There is also a resume defect. The intention of the programmer
was that a restarted or interrupted bot resumes its last open
game. However, this does not work reliably, for a few reasons.
One of these reasons is that a bot experiencing a server
disconnect waits for 5 minutes before even trying to reconnect.
But few players stay in the game and wait for 5 minutes if their
bot disappears. Another appears to be that the bot often opens a
new game before discovering that an open one still exists. Then
another player can enter that new game, and the open game
expires.
This is all exacerbated by the fact that the KGS server has had
these frequent interruptions for as long as I know it,
apparently several per day. I can't understand why the people
running the server never have never repaired this idiotic
defect.
In other words, KGS itself mostly creates the problems for which
it then punishes the bots.
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> In other words, KGS itself mostly creates the problems for which
> it then punishes the bots.
I think this is a matter of definition. Kiseido the company,
perhaps. All the problems you outline are a function of the software
you are using to connect your bot to KGS; software which was provided
by Kiseido and you are using.
I'm thinking programmatically, not organizationally. The client, the
bot, includes by my way of thinking, the software running on your
system, no matter who wrote the code. Likewise, the server, KGS, is
whatever is running on igoweb. The bot is the complete set of
whatever is over on your system, connecting to KGS.
It's go logic may be impeccable, but if it disconnects randomly, then
it's just like a human who has impeccable go logic and also
disconnects randomly. If your bot disconnects because a separate
piece of software, running on your system (the interface, for example,
that Kiseido supplies), that's in the same league as a human player
whose toddler kicks out the power now and then.
Thomas
Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> writes:
Thomas,
what are you intending to say? Can't make much sense of it.
The biggest everyday cause of disconnections is that KGS
suddenly disappears for a few minutes. It does this all the
time.
What a pity! The KGS software, as seen from the end users, is
really quite good, best I've seen, but it is devalued apparently
by a deeply and ridiculously defective server.
This affects the bots, but also all human players.
Jean-Marc Guinnebault
Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
> The biggest everyday cause of disconnections is that KGS
> suddenly disappears for a few minutes. It does this all the
> time.
You can check the server stats from the File menu. It says that the
server has been being up for 42 days.
Regarding the internet connection to the server, I am logged from France
with a standard ISP all the day long with hardly any disconnection. Of
course, disconnections might happen, this is Internet, but there is no
such thing like a disconnection issue with KGS. I guess you should check
with your ISP.
> What a pity! The KGS software, as seen from the end users, is
> really quite good, best I've seen, but it is devalued apparently
> by a deeply and ridiculously defective server.
>
> This affects the bots, but also all human players.
I used to run a bot from my own server launched by a spawning daemon. No
problem.
--
jyem PGP ID: 0EC122AC
Patrick Bridges
> The biggest everyday cause of disconnections is that KGS
> suddenly disappears for a few minutes. It does this all the
> time.
>
> What a pity! The KGS software, as seen from the end users, is
> really quite good, best I've seen, but it is devalued apparently
> by a deeply and ridiculously defective server.
I haven't seen this problem with the server. Are you sure it's the
server that's disappearing, and not your connection to it?
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> what are you intending to say? Can't make much sense of it.
Sorry, but I can't exlpain it any better. All I can say is that it is
the bot's responsibility to do what it can, and to suffer rating
consequences when it does not. By "the bot" I mean everything running
on the bot's system, regardless of who wrote the code.
> The biggest everyday cause of disconnections is that KGS
> suddenly disappears for a few minutes. It does this all the
> time.
Curious. I've *never* seen this as a user. It disappears for bots
and not for non-bots?
Remember, the question here was about whether bots should be treated
*differently* from people. Any problem that affects both does not
seem to be unfair.
Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
>> The biggest everyday cause of disconnections is that KGS
>> suddenly disappears for a few minutes. It does this all the
>> time.
>You can check the server stats from the File menu. It says that the
>server has been being up for 42 days.
>
>Regarding the internet connection to the server, I am logged from France
>with a standard ISP all the day long with hardly any disconnection. Of
>course, disconnections might happen, this is Internet, but there is no
>such thing like a disconnection issue with KGS. I guess you should check
>with your ISP.
Jean-Marc,
when the KGS go server disappears, all other servers, including
www.kiseido.com, are still working and reachable. There is a
particular problem with the KGS server or with its connection,
and that problem has always been there.
>I used to run a bot from my own server launched by a spawning daemon. No
>problem.
I almost believed you are lying. If you look at the bot logs,
you see the disconnections. My only explanation is that you
never looked at the logs.
Hans-Georg Michna
>Curious. I've *never* seen this as a user. It disappears for bots
>and not for non-bots?
Thomas,
how often do you play? The server disappears several times every
day. When it does, other servers, like www.kiseido.com, are not
affected and are always still available (which also proves that
it is not your Internet connection or mine that is at fault).
You are thrown out and have to reconnect, find your game again
and rejoin it. Your opponent, of course, has to do the same,
because he's also been thrown out. The server is usually back
within a few minutes. Only rarely does it stay dead for half an
hour.
If you want to see the defect, run a bot and save its log.
>Remember, the question here was about whether bots should be treated
>*differently* from people. Any problem that affects both does not
>seem to be unfair.
I agree with two reservations.
1. The bot wrapper, kgsGtp.jar, is provided by KGS and
apparently has flaws. They should be fixed.
2. Bots play many more games in a given time span than humans.
Player treatment by the server should be fair also at high play
frequency.
Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> writes:
Patrick,
come on, everybody sees these disconnections. Just ask in a
room.
It is either the server or its Internet connection that's
defective. And the defect is so obvious that I'm at a loss to
understand why I have to explain it here.
Jean-Marc Guinnebault
> Jean-Marc,
>
> when the KGS go server disappears, all other servers, including
> www.kiseido.com, are still working and reachable. There is a
> particular problem with the KGS server or with its connection,
> and that problem has always been there.
I will tell you a little story: many french users using a famous french
ISP have problems connecting to KGS because that provider limits the
bandwidth allowed towards ports used for gaming. Check (in french,
sorry) http://www.freenews.fr/index.php?itemid=2564 and
http://www.aduf.org/viewtopic.php?t=43762
Those users have of course no problem connecting to our web server (port
80) as this one is allowed full bandwidth from their ISP.
>
>>I used to run a bot from my own server launched by a spawning daemon. No
>>problem.
>
>
> I almost believed you are lying. If you look at the bot logs,
> you see the disconnections. My only explanation is that you
> never looked at the logs.
I've seen your logs, what you say is right, that's your explanation to
the phenomena that is wrong: the problem comes from your ISP, not from KGS.
FYI, a spawning daemon is a software that restarts when it encounters a
problem, such as a disconnection which you can of course expect from a
robot connected 24h a day.
Frank de Groot
> I will tell you a little story: many french users using a famous french
> ISP have problems connecting to KGS because that provider limits the
> bandwidth allowed towards ports used for gaming.
It can get even worse, in Greece, computers games are illegal.
Yes, that includes computer Go.
Originally thought to combat online gambling and violent FPS, they
blanket-banned all computer games..
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> come on, everybody sees these disconnections. Just ask in a
> room.
You miss the point. If *everybody* sees them, then it seems entirely
reasonable to treat bots on the same basis as human players.
And, for the record, everybody doesn't see them. I've never seen
them, for example, and I play on KGS all the time.
Hans-Georg Michna
>I've seen your logs, what you say is right, that's your explanation to
>the phenomena that is wrong: the problem comes from your ISP, not from KGS.
Jean-Marc,
that is nonsense. There are two gamers in the house who have
been playing online games for many years through the same
connection. There are no interruptions.
Hans-Georg Michna
>And, for the record, everybody doesn't see them. I've never seen
>them, for example, and I play on KGS all the time.
Thomas,
you are telling me you've never been disconnected in the middle
of a game and had to reconnect?
BramGo
wirless network. And I had a very weak signal. But now I am on normal
network, and now it happens only very rarely.
But indeed about a year ago (If I remember it correctly) there were a
lot of complaints about this. KGS news topic mentioned that they had
problems with their ISP, but that they would be solved very soon. And
they did, and now there are no problems like this anymore. I'm pretty
sure, if you get disconnected now, you should blame your local area
network or your own ISP.
It's easy to tell the difference from a KGS crash: when you reconnect
all people are talking about it for the following 2 hours. :) But the
KGS server only crashes very rarely. I believe you check the
server-uptime in the stats dialog in the menu of cgoban2.
Hans-Georg Michna
>I used to be disconnected plenty of times. It's because I used a
>wirless network. And I had a very weak signal. But now I am on normal
>network, and now it happens only very rarely.
If the error occurs twice a day and you play two hours a day,
then you would see it once every 6 days on average.
>But indeed about a year ago (If I remember it correctly) there were a
>lot of complaints about this. KGS news topic mentioned that they had
>problems with their ISP, but that they would be solved very soon. And
>they did, and now there are no problems like this anymore. I'm pretty
>sure, if you get disconnected now, you should blame your local area
>network or your own ISP.
Nonsense, as I already mentioned several times. My connection
simply has no interruptions. My line is roughly equivalent to
two T1 trunk lines, at 3 Mbit/s.
>It's easy to tell the difference from a KGS crash: when you reconnect
>all people are talking about it for the following 2 hours. :) But the
>KGS server only crashes very rarely. I believe you check the
>server-uptime in the stats dialog in the menu of cgoban2.
If the server logs say the truth, then it's probably the KGS
Internet connection that is at fault.
Ted S.
georgNoEm...@michna.com> wrote in
news:b6acs1t0v54udk50c...@4ax.com:
> Thomas,
>
> you are telling me you've never been disconnected in the middle
> of a game and had to reconnect?
I've been disconnected in the middle of games, but it's usually a result
of a problem at my end: either the computer (Windows 98SE) reboots itself,
or my dial-up connection disconnects from *everything*, not just KGS. I
have the same problems playing at the Internet Scrabble Club.
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
Oh Marge, anyone can miss Canada, all tucked away down there....
--Homer Simpson
Jean-Marc Guinnebault
Ok, let's make it simple: how would you explain the fact that many
users, including myself, from various areas of the world, do not
encounter your problems ? If the issue came from the KGS' ISP, then we
would have the same interruptions as you have.
There is a simpler explanation: the backbone used by your ISP towards
the USA is probably poor (the KGS server stands in Texas). I bet your
gamers at home connect to some place in Europe or even in Germany.
Planar
Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> wrote:
> how often do you play? The server disappears several times every
> day. When it does, other servers, like www.kiseido.com, are not
> affected and are always still available (which also proves that
> it is not your Internet connection or mine that is at fault).
>
> You are thrown out and have to reconnect, find your game again
> and rejoin it. Your opponent, of course, has to do the same,
> because he's also been thrown out. The server is usually back
> within a few minutes. Only rarely does it stay dead for half an
> hour.
>
> If you want to see the defect, run a bot and save its log.
I have two bots running 24x7 on KGS. I just had a look at the
logs, which date back from january 6 (older logs are lost).
I found no occurrence of what you are describing. There are
two disconnections in there, one corresponds to a documented
case of our ISP having problems (we had no Internet access
for several hours). The other is 1/2 hour long and in the
middle of the night, I suspect our ISP did a little bit of
maintenance during non-busy hours.
Maybe that last one was an occurrence of your problem, but
even if it is, it's only one in 5 days, certainly not several
times per day.
I also connect to KGS on a regular basis, and I haven't
noticed anything like what you describe.
My guess is that the problem is in the Internet somewhere
between your ISP and KGS's ISP. Since it's intermittent, I
wouldn't be optimistic on it being noticed and fixed anytime
soon...
--
Planar
remove .invalid from my address to send me mail
"I really couldn't care less about Japanese rules." - Chris Lawrence
Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:00:54 +0100, Jean-Marc Guinnebault wrote:
>>>I've seen your logs, what you say is right, that's your explanation to
>>>the phenomena that is wrong: the problem comes from your ISP, not from KGS.
>> that is nonsense. There are two gamers in the house who have
>> been playing online games for many years through the same
>> connection. There are no interruptions.
>Ok, let's make it simple: how would you explain the fact that many
>users, including myself, from various areas of the world, do not
>encounter your problems ? If the issue came from the KGS' ISP, then we
>would have the same interruptions as you have.
>
>There is a simpler explanation: the backbone used by your ISP towards
>the USA is probably poor (the KGS server stands in Texas). I bet your
>gamers at home connect to some place in Europe or even in Germany.
Jean-Marc,
when KGS disconnects, I check other servers, like
www.kiseido.com or some other server. I have no interruptions to
the US. I am in Germany, but the transatlantic connections are
perfect. I don't know where you get the idea from that the
Internet backbone disconnects.
The more interesting question is why you say that you don't have
this problem. You say that because you don't run a bot 24/7 or
because you run one, but don't look at the logs.
As a player, the chance of hitting an interruption during one
hour of playing is probably less than 10%. If you say that you
never, really never, have any disconnects, then I am tempted to
disbelieve.
Hans-Georg Michna
>Somebody claiming to be Hans-Georg Michna <hans-
>georgNoEm...@michna.com> wrote in
>news:b6acs1t0v54udk50c...@4ax.com:
>> you are telling me you've never been disconnected in the middle
>> of a game and had to reconnect?
>I've been disconnected in the middle of games, but it's usually a result
>of a problem at my end: either the computer (Windows 98SE) reboots itself,
>or my dial-up connection disconnects from *everything*, not just KGS. I
>have the same problems playing at the Internet Scrabble Club.
Ted,
are you really unable to discern whether the disconnection is
local or not? The word "usually" points that way. Have you
experienced disconnects that were not locally caused? You aren't
sure, right? Why then do you waste everybody's time here by
writing your irrelevant message?
As I wrote, to a human player KGS disconnects are rare. But in a
bot log they are obvious.
Hans-Georg Michna
>I have two bots running 24x7 on KGS. I just had a look at the
>logs, which date back from january 6 (older logs are lost).
>
>I found no occurrence of what you are describing. There are
>two disconnections in there, one corresponds to a documented
>case of our ISP having problems (we had no Internet access
>for several hours). The other is 1/2 hour long and in the
>middle of the night, I suspect our ISP did a little bit of
>maintenance during non-busy hours.
>
>Maybe that last one was an occurrence of your problem, but
>even if it is, it's only one in 5 days, certainly not several
>times per day.
>
>I also connect to KGS on a regular basis, and I haven't
>noticed anything like what you describe.
>
>My guess is that the problem is in the Internet somewhere
>between your ISP and KGS's ISP. Since it's intermittent, I
>wouldn't be optimistic on it being noticed and fixed anytime
>soon...
Planar,
thanks for your interesting information. The phenomenon is
becoming mysterious. Guess I should get into systematic
observation to nail down the problem.
Very strange, because my home network regularly connects to all
kinds of servers, particularly game servers, and nobody has any
problems outside KGS.
The last interruption I remember, when I was personally at the
computer, playing, was an outage that lasted about half an hour,
which is again unusual. During the outage all other servers
worldwide, that I tried, could be reached without any problem.
Jean-Marc Guinnebault
> when KGS disconnects, I check other servers, like
> www.kiseido.com or some other server.
Ok, next time, try a traceroute to KGS instead and tell us about it.
Hopefully, we'll thus be able to find out where your traffic jam is.
I have no interruptions to
> the US. I am in Germany, but the transatlantic connections are
> perfect. I don't know where you get the idea from that the
> Internet backbone disconnects.
Because that's the most realistic explanation.
> The more interesting question is why you say that you don't have
> this problem. You say that because you don't run a bot 24/7 or
> because you run one, but don't look at the logs.
Check gnugobot's account, that's one of my robots. It was off lately
as I needed more CPU. I will restart it and check the logs, who knows...
Hans-Georg Michna
>Ok, next time, try a traceroute to KGS instead and tell us about it.
>Hopefully, we'll thus be able to find out where your traffic jam is.
Jean-Marc,
very good idea, I'll do that. Since I'm not constantly watching
the bots or KGS, it may take a while.
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> Very strange, because my home network regularly connects to all
> kinds of servers, particularly game servers, and nobody has any
> problems outside KGS.
Does it maintain long connections to those other servers?
Hans-Georg Michna
estimate). Occasionally I observe them while I'm online.
Whenever I checked, all other connections were fine, for
example, to www.kiseido.com or to any other server. Only KGS
(goserver.igoweb.org) is affected.
Some others have stated that they don't see these interruptions.
This makes the case mysterious. I cannot explain how my provider
can have a particular problem connecting to the faraway KGS, but
not to any other server equally far away.
Moreover, I have seen this for many years. I always thought the
cause was incompetence somewhere at or around KGS (their
provider perhaps), but then many people using KGS should see
these disconnects.
Somebody playing one hour per day should, of course, see the
disconnect only once every 12 days on average, if my estimate of
twice a day is correct. So perhaps people consider these cases
not worth remembering or believe wrongly that it's a defect in
their own connection.
My own connection is a 3 Mbit/s ADSL line, which is otherwise
reliable. It has one scheduled disconnect exactly every 24
hours, but of course I know these and don't mistake them for the
ones being discussed here.
Example: today around 6 am UTC (7 am local time, SCHWERWIEGEND
means SEVERE):
13.01.2006 06:55:53 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.A <init>
FEIN: Starting game as white against goodluck
13.01.2006 07:01:57 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient a
SCHWERWIEGEND: Unexpected disconnect: Error "Connection reset"
while communicating with server. You must log in again.
13.01.2006 07:01:57 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient go
FEIN: Will wait 5 minutes, then try to connect again.
13.01.2006 07:07:18 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient a
SCHWERWIEGEND: Unexpected disconnect: The system
"goserver.igoweb.org" is refusing connections. The server is
probably down right now. Please try again later.
13.01.2006 07:07:18 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient go
FEIN: Will wait 5 minutes, then try to connect again.
13.01.2006 07:12:39 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient a
SCHWERWIEGEND: Unexpected disconnect: The system
"goserver.igoweb.org" is refusing connections. The server is
probably down right now. Please try again later.
13.01.2006 07:12:39 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient go
FEIN: Will wait 5 minutes, then try to connect again.
13.01.2006 07:17:39 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient a
FEIN: Login successful.
13.01.2006 07:17:40 org.igoweb.igoweb.client.gtp.GtpClient b
FEIN: Joined room "Computer Go"
I wasn't at the computers running the bots, so I couldn't do any
testing. The interruption lasted for more than 10 minutes. I saw
a similar one a few days ago that lasted for some 30 minutes.
The question is, what am I seeing here?
Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> writes:
>> Very strange, because my home network regularly connects to all
>> kinds of servers, particularly game servers, and nobody has any
>> problems outside KGS.
>Does it maintain long connections to those other servers?
Thomas,
not necessarily, but during the outage I can connect to every
other server I try, including, for example, www.kiseido.com.
Only to KGS I cannot connect, typically for a few minutes. I get
the message that the server refuses connections and is probably
down.
Then suddenly I can connect to KGS again and everything works.
I'm pondering the idea to set up some monitoring, using ping at
first. I'd like to have some statistics. But then the whole
thing is not important enough for me to warrant any significant
amount of work. Hasn't anybody here already done some
monitoring?
Thomas Bushnell, BSG
> Somebody playing one hour per day should, of course, see the
> disconnect only once every 12 days on average, if my estimate of
> twice a day is correct. So perhaps people consider these cases
> not worth remembering or believe wrongly that it's a defect in
> their own connection.
So, if these disconnects happen to everyone, how does this matter?
The claim was that bots should have some special exemption from the
normal escaping penalties. But if they are subject to the same
conditions that affect everyone, then how on earth do the
disconnections make things unfair for bots?
Hans-Georg Michna
>Hans-Georg Michna <hans-georgN...@michna.com> writes:
Thomas,
the difference is that the bots play many times more games than
any human player. And the rules are not proportional to the
number of games. There are apparently absolute limits for being
labelled an escaper.
But this branch of the thread has been started to find out more
about the disconnections, regardless of the bots.
Big Duck
>. Hasn't anybody here already done some
> monitoring?
>
> Hans-Georg
>
Hans!
Have you not been reading all these years?! If you are looking for someone
who is monitoring, you need to look towards IGS - not towards KGS. The KGS
weenies do not monitor anything (not even if you put something really bad in
your stats - like another servers name)
Sincerely,
Your friend,
Big Duck
Michael Alford
This is utter nonsense. It is well known the monitoring at KGS is far
more extensive than any ever done on IGS. Articles have been posted here
re this, do you read any posts other than your own uninformed,
misinformed, slanderous, factually inaccurate, and lying drivel? Just
fyi, for anyone following Locher's posts, the Usage Agreement is not
secret or hidden, it not only comes with your password when you open an
account, it's available on the server as a help file and online to
anyone with a browser, IGS account not necessary. The 1995 Fair Play
Policy has been posted to this newsgroup at least a half a dozen times.
Michael
Big Duck
"Michael Alford" <ma...@aracnet.com> wrote in message
news:dqb7t...@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
>
> This is utter nonsense. It is well known the monitoring at KGS is far
> more extensive than any ever done on IGS.
Michael,
I am so glad to hear from you. BTW, while you are here can you tell me
where Alex is? I really miss his presence on rgg. It seems that Roy
Schmidt ( He has 3 -too-many letters in his last name -haha) chased hime
off a few months ago.
Anyhow, If KGS is monitoring mre than IGS then this is utter nonsense. We
need to redouble our efforts to monitor. KGS is grabing the lead. Lets
think of some more off sever things that IGS can monitor, and lets offer
them up to IGS so IGS does not lose the lead in monitoring (It is getting
discouraging that KGS gets more western players bit we can fight back)
Here is my list of things I think IGS ccan monitor in order to reclaim the
lead back from KGS.
1. The posts users make to rgg (oh wait IGS already does a good job at this)
2. The type of coffee a user drinks
3. The shoe style of said user
4. The content of web pages that users write - especially if it is go
related
5. The affiliations that users have with other go servers
6. The country that a person resides in
7. The type of underware users wear (ban the boxers - spare the briefs! -
hey cool slogane!)
8. What people name their children
9. The type of lettuce users prefer
10. How many times a user smokes per day
There are, of course things IGS should not monitor , like whether profanity
is used - we would not want IGS to be perceived as a sissy-friendly server
like KGS - would we Mike?
Anyhow, nice chatting with you today. I hope all is going well for you.
Ban one for me - ok Mike?
Sincerely,
Your friend,
Big Duck
PS The go community is too darn big and needs to be thinned out