Re: I was wrong. I was not banned.
tweet
> I was wrong. I was *not* banned from IGS!
>
> I present to you what happened to Patrick Bridges as an exampe of what
> happened to me. Lets take a trip back to 2001 to realise just how far
> back tweet's deception goes.
>
> # >>>>> "MA" == Michael Alford <m...@spiritone.com> writes:
> #
> # MA> There is only one person that is banned. Some of these
> # MA> accounts were disabled. As posted before, IGS has no policy
> # MA> for banning accounts.
> #
> # My IGS accounts have been disabled, my email address prevented from
> # being registered on IGS, and any machine in my domain
> (cs.arizona.edu)
> # is prevented from connecting to IGS, I'm not banned from IGS. Gee
> # that's a real comfort. :)
> #
> # I wish I knew what I did to warrant such gracious non-banning. :)
> #
> # -Patrick
>
> Let us learn the lesson Patrick learned over 5 years ago. IGS does not
> ban people. How right tweet was when he said I was not banned. He
When did I say you were not banned?
> merely disabled my account!
Your account was never disabled.
> And, I suppose, when I complained about it,
> this alone was justification for banning.
>
> Let me reiterate. IGS HAS NO POLICY FOR BANNING ACCOUNTS. When I, for
> example, was banned (by tweet's own admission I was banned) it was
You contracdict yourself here. Above you said ...
"How right tweet was when he said I was not banned."
> purely because tweed did not like me. This means Tweet has let his own
> personal relationships interfere in the administration of IGS. Any
> corporation or military structure or really any organization would fire
> a leader like that. He is no longer fit to command. Can I get a vote on
> this? Where can I write to get a vote of non confidence? I'd do it.
>
> Sorry tweet but if you steal my milk and cookies I reserve the right to
> call the police and to call you a "fraud", assuming of course we define
> the word "fraud" as someone who lies about stuff and capricously
> "doesen't ban" (see above) people he does not agree with, or whom his
> cronies malf and JB (whom he has insinuated on several occasions have
> the right to speak for IGS) do not agree with, all the while lying
> through his teeth about the whole affair, and making baseless
> credibility attacks the whole time.
>
>
tweet
> banned.
Provide cites/sources saying I said you were not banned recently.
>
> Then, later, when you said I *was* banned, you were also right, because
> between those two statements, you officially banned me. Right? Thats
> what you said you did, anyways.
>
> Don't be so deceitful - it's despicable :)
>
> -
>
Mef
tweet wrote:
>
> Provide cites/sources saying I said you were not banned recently.
>
Indeed, I don't recall tweet ever saying you weren't banned (I can't
say I've looked it up though), but I am pretty sure on one of the
threads he said he didn't disable your account
tweet
> recently" emphasis mine on recently.
>
> Implying that he agrees with me, that he said I was not banned
Provide the cite/source saying I said you were not banned.
> *before*, but recently said I *was* banned. Tweet is not even arguing
> semantics for no reason, he is just agreeing with me but askign me to
> cite sources. I dont know why he is asking me to cite sources when I
> was already very clear that there were no such sources because thats
> not what we were talking about :p
>
On Oct. 17th, renli stated:
"How right tweet was when he said I was not banned."
Provide the cite/source saying I said you were not
banned.
tweet
> You said my account was not disabled, when I said that it was. You also
> implied that you agreed with the statement by malf that my account's
> password was changed several times.
Provide the cite/source that I agreed with malf.
>
> Please provide the logs, I would really like to know who changed my
> password, because it wasn't me.
>
> -
>
Planar
"Renli" <oliver....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let me reiterate. IGS HAS NO POLICY FOR BANNING ACCOUNTS. When I, for
> example, was banned (by tweet's own admission I was banned) it was
> purely because tweed did not like me. This means Tweet has let his own
> personal relationships interfere in the administration of IGS.
I don't think you can speak of interference. Tweet's personal
dislike is officially a valid reason for banning you, according
to the IGS terms of use.
> Any
> corporation or military structure or really any organization would fire
> a leader like that. He is no longer fit to command.
I don't agree. Tweet is performing within spec. He is working
as designed, see
< http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#working%20as%20designed >
and < http://www.eps.mcgill.ca/jargon/jargon.html#BAD >
--
Planar
remove .invalid from my address to send me mail
"I really couldn't care less about Japanese rules." - Chris Lawrence
tweet
>
> Don't get me wrong. I want to help Tweet (Mark Okada).
>
> One of the reasons IGS, has experienced a relative imbalance in
> membership compared to other Go servers (which have up to and perhaps
> more than 10 times the activity of IGS) is because tweet (Mark Okada)
> is a pompous fool, and he shows it every way he can.
The introduction to that song about you states:
Oliver Richman, the delusional Canadian wanker. We know we can't fool onesuch
as he with our happy wanderings, because HE knows the Tao (chuckle).
About "Oliver Richman":
An imbecile inspired this song with his relentless stupidity and arrogance.
Oliver Richman ref:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/Lyrics.cfm?BandID=24002&songid=243091
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=24002
tweet
Gohst @
IGS provides something of value (a free Go server), and in return, makes
arbitrary rules about how you must act in order to participate. If you
can't, or won't, abide by those rules, or even if they just take a
dislike to you and decide to boot you out the virtual door, you probably
have very little recourse (except to whine about it in here endlessly).
My guess is, if IGS (as a company) was unhappy with Tweet's actions,
they'd dismiss him, or otherwise sever the relationship. They aren't
doing that, far as I can see.
So, maybe it's time for you to take it like a man, instead of a whining
child, and move on.
Please don't bore us with this any more. Life ain't fair. Get over it,
and yourself, already. There are plenty of places to play online.
-- Gohst
-----Original Message-----
From: Renli [mailto:oliver....@gmail.com]
Posted At: Friday, October 20, 2006 9:30 AM
Posted To: rec.games.go
Conversation: I was wrong. I was not banned.
Subject: Re: I was wrong. I was not banned.
Planar wrote:
> I don't think you can speak of interference. Tweet's personal dislike
> is officially a valid reason for banning you, according to the IGS
> terms of use.
Don't get me wrong. I want to help Tweet (Mark Okada).
One of the reasons IGS, has experienced a relative imbalance in
membership compared to other Go servers (which have up to and perhaps
more than 10 times the activity of IGS) is because tweet (Mark Okada) is
a pompous fool, and he shows it every way he can.
IGS had a chance to be something bigger, better, and more than it is.
Instead it has stagnated, as has Tweet (Mark Okada). It's a pain to see
Western Go falter in such a large way.
It is my hope that Tweet (Mark Okada) sees the futility of all that he
has done and repents - I honestly believe that the Go World will be a
better place when that happens.
How big is that sig again? Does anyone really care?
-
tweet
Renli (Oliver Richman, Canadian wanker and imbecile) wrote:
>> Gohst (@) wrote:
>> IGS provides something of value (a free Go server), and in return, makes
>> arbitrary rules about how you must act in order to participate. If you
>> can't, or won't, abide by those rules, or even if they just take a
>> dislike to you and decide to boot you out the virtual door, you probably
>> have very little recourse (except to whine about it in here endlessly).
>> My guess is, if IGS (as a company) was unhappy with Tweet's actions,
>> they'd dismiss him, or otherwise sever the relationship. They aren't
>> doing that, far as I can see.
>>
>> So, maybe it's time for you to take it like a man, instead of a whining
>> child, and move on.
>>
>> Please don't bore us with this any more. Life ain't fair. Get over it,
>> and yourself, already. There are plenty of places to play online.
>>
>> -- Gohst
>
Renli (Oliver Richman, Canadian wanker and imbecile) responded:
> ? I had moved on way back in 2001, as i recall - and tweet (Mark Okada)
> didnt even hate me then. No, I had moved on of my own volition. Tweet
> (Mark Okada) started hating me when I publicly moved away from IGS,
"..started hating me.."?
Didn't even know you left, although I now recall you
weren't seen on IGS or rec.games.go after your humiliating
defeat by Cornel in the 5 stone handicap game where he
crushed you and forced you to resign.
> because of the bullshit that surrounds IGS.
>
Gohst:
>>Please don't bore us with this any more. Life ain't fair. Get over it,
>>and yourself, already. There are plenty of places to play online.
>
Renli (Oliver Richman, Canadian wanker and imbecile):
> The whole point is that it's not relevant. By the time I had originally
> decided to speak out against IGS back in 2001, I had already found
> somewhere else to play - actually, four places. The fact that I was
> banned many years later when I visited IGS is actually funny, because
> of it's shocking irrelevancy. These days, I never use IGS. I can watch
> pro games on other servers or download them after the fact from several
> different sources. I had only gone back to IGS to show tweet that he is
> nothing but a vindictive old man who actually does not have the best
> interests of the go community at large at heart.
>
> Tweet (Mark Okada) seems to hold grudges for years, over petty things
> like people mentioning he holds grudges. I'm not talking behind your
'grudges' ... 'vindictive'? Revisionist recent history here.
Shortly after you started posting rec.games.go again, you
wrote an unprovoked reference to me, which I did not respond
to.
From: "Renli" <oliver....@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Off Topic
Date: 11 Aug 2006 21:55:42 -0700
cut ....
p.p.s. I'd give IGS another try maybe but I am still concerned about
their escaper policy and frankly the server admin comes on here often
and puts on a show.. I like to focus on Go. Any other servers? What
about CyberOro or something in Korea? Whats DGS? etc ty
'grudges' ... 'vindictive'? Still unprovoked by me, you brought
back the disproven notion that a story was written about your
wife. You even wanted an apology for this story. You even claimed
this story was written by the IGS admin. Interesting ... for a story
you never saw, and which never existed, how do you know who wrote
the story? Seems to me you're the one with grudges.
From: "Renli" <oliver.rich...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Go, "Western" vs. "Asian" Thinking - Not What
I Had In Mind... :-(
Date: 24 Aug 2006 06:57:15 -0700
I don't usually comment on these things anymore.. and I know you
admitted you did not cover all points. But please do not forget that I
had an insulting essay written about myself, by the IGS admins, in
which my wife was also insulted. I don't think I was banned, but it was
still extremely rude. The history of the thread is available on google
groups.
The reason for this essay was that I pointed out that one of the
pictures of san fransisco chinatown was a fake. This was later admitted
to be true by the IGS admins, that the photo was in fact not taken in
chinatown in san fransisco. No apology for the essay was ever issued.
I don't expect one either.
And, you have consistantly and vindictively attributed statements
and things to me that I never said or did. When asked for proof in
the form of cites and sources, you were unable to produce them.
Instead you came to rec.games.go full of accusations and lies. You
even tried to fool all of rec.games.go about your humiliating and
crushing defeat by Cornel in the 5 stone handicap game.
From: "Renli" <oliver.rich...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.go,rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: What's so bad about being a Kyu player?
Date: 12 Oct 2006 00:44:11 -0700
CornelB wrote:
>>
>> Hi Fu,
>>
>> I didnt save our game cause I havent find it very interesting but I
>> remember it was a handicap 5 game where most of your groups were chased
>> and probably you prefered to lose on time instead resign but this I can
>> understand...oh well, being a dan player and taking handi 5 from a top
>> dan player is not a shame, maybe is still better to be a top kyu
>> player, who knows..
> Renli (Oliver Richman, Canadian wanker and imbecile):
> Who knows, indeed. You obviously remember the game wrong, because it
> was H4. Mr. Burzo, while I respect you as a strong amateur Go player,
> you show a shocking lack of humility.
Instead of saying you were talking about another game (chuckle), you
told Cornel he 'obviously remembered the game wrong', trying to fool
him. Fortunately, several people noticed your deception and posted
the correct game.
> back Mr Okada. I'm telling you to your face. You need to freakin
> chillax. I dont give a crap that you banned me. However I feel morally
If you don't care about IGS, as you recently stated, and you
"don't give a crap", why do you keep whining here as Gohst says?
Seems to me you're the one who needs "to freakin chillax".
> obligated to point out you are nothing but a big jerk if you think you
> can get away with such a malicious and capricous *ban* as what you did
> to me. I've never done anything so malicious to you.
You need to re-read all the stuff you wrote here.
Gohst @
die. There's lots of good competition. Or, maybe no one else really
cares, because it doesn't affect them. As you said, basically
irrelevant.
So, why spam the newsgroup with this irrelevancy? You've made your
point... there is nothing more to be gained. Either people buy your
story, or they don't.
- Gohst
-----Original Message-----
From: Renli [mailto:oliver....@gmail.com]
Posted At: Friday, October 20, 2006 4:59 PM
Posted To: rec.games.go
Conversation: I was wrong. I was not banned.
Subject: Re: I was wrong. I was not banned.
Gohst (@) wrote:
> So, maybe it's time for you to take it like a man, instead of a
> whining child, and move on.
? I had moved on way back in 2001, as i recall - and tweet (Mark Okada)
didnt even hate me then. No, I had moved on of my own volition. Tweet
(Mark Okada) started hating me when I publicly moved away from IGS,
because of the bullshit that surrounds IGS.
> Please don't bore us with this any more. Life ain't fair. Get over it,
> and yourself, already. There are plenty of places to play online.
The whole point is that it's not relevant. By the time I had originally
decided to speak out against IGS back in 2001, I had already found
somewhere else to play - actually, four places. The fact that I was
banned many years later when I visited IGS is actually funny, because of
it's shocking irrelevancy. These days, I never use IGS. I can watch pro
games on other servers or download them after the fact from several
different sources. I had only gone back to IGS to show tweet that he is
nothing but a vindictive old man who actually does not have the best
interests of the go community at large at heart.
Tweet (Mark Okada) seems to hold grudges for years, over petty things
like people mentioning he holds grudges. I'm not talking behind your
back Mr Okada. I'm telling you to your face. You need to freakin
chillax. I dont give a crap that you banned me. However I feel morally
obligated to point out you are nothing but a big jerk if you think you
can get away with such a malicious and capricous *ban* as what you did
to me. I've never done anything so malicious to you.
-
tweet
Renli (Oliver Richman, Canadian wanker and imbecile) wrote:
>
>> You need to re-read all the stuff you wrote here.
>
Renli (Oliver Richman, Canadian wanker and imbecile):
> And you still owe me an apology for calling my wife an old hag. Would
> you like me to post the link?
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.go/msg/8945ccc3c22ed33f?output=gplain
>
> In that very same message you post a link to "fu.html", which at the
> time contained the essay "the old hag of go". The implication is very
> clear.
>
> Several people saw the essay, there is no use in denying it or saying
> it was an empty page.
>
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.go/browse_frm/thread/8aa2a2a821f1b103/f55fca7920ec479f?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#f55fca7920ec479f
>
Here you go again. Bringing this up when you know that the conclusion
to this was there was no story or essay. You say several saw the essay,
and you say there is no use in denying it, but I can deny it, because
your link refers to Chris Lawrence's post, who eventually said there was
no story ...
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:13:26 +0100
From: Chris Lawrence <n...@holosys.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Acceptable use
Jeff is quite correct. I was mistaken to say that I clicked on fu.html
and read a story about the Hag of Go. I remember now that there was
a picture called the Hag of Go with no story.
The 'Jeff' that Chris was referring to was Jeff Nowakowski, who said ....
From: "Jeff Nowakowski" <jef...@ccs.neu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Why did the administrator of IGS call my wife an old hag?
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:44:31 -0000
frl: (Fu, Ren-Li, Oliver Richman)
I recall clicking on fu.html when it was posted. I remember it only
contained a picture of an old lady (hag). I remember it because the
URL had "essay" in it, but there was no essay to be found (I remember
even clicking on the photograph trying to get the "essay").
The google cache also supports that there was no essay.
Tweedie saying "she must be an old hag" was his indirect way of
saying that she wasn't around when the pictures were taken. Granted
it was an insulting way to make a point, but I don't think it was a
direct attack on your wife.
From what I can tell, you jumped into the flamewars of your own
volition. If they really are upsetting you, then you should take
Michael Goetze's advice and not respond at all.
For the record, I use KGS and have no affinity for jb/malf/tweet.
-Jeff
Just what are you trying to prove? You know the conclusion was there
was never a story. Are you trying to trick people like you tried with
your humiliating game with Cornel by substituting another game?
Pierre Honeyman
Or a windy rooftop, whichever you prefer.
Pierre
tweet
You cited only a select part of the thread, but not it's conclusion,
that there was no story or essay.
Like Cornel said, "I think you're a pretty deceitful person".
ref: CornelB, rec.games.go, Oct. 16, 2006,
Subject: What's so bad about being a Kyu player?
Hi Fu,
Maybe you improved after losing the handi 5 game and felt ok in the
handi 4 game but I think you're a pretty deceitful person,
Frank de Groot
> I dont give a crap that you banned me. However I feel morally
> obligated to point out you are nothing but a big jerk if you think you
> can get away with such a malicious and capricous *ban* as what you did
> to me. I've never done anything so malicious to you.
I understand why these things happen. It happened to me too.
Most humans, when they don't like another human, will treat this person
unfairly, unethically.
It is hard not to get feelings of antipathy get in the way of fairness.
It is hard to like you and me, so we meet enormous - and unfair - agression.
For exampl, I think you are an incredibly irritating person and I really,
really understand why someone made that song about you.
Because some time ago, you gave me a public and very humiliating lecture
about what was wrong with my software, how I /should/ have done it, yada,
yada, and it was all a bunch of baloney when applied to my case, but it
sounded reasonable to a layperson - hence the humiliation.
Now, if I has less self-control, I would, every time I got the chance,
attempt to humiliate /you/. Regardless of the fact that it was warranted at
that moment and regardless of the fact that I already had done it several
times to "get even". Humans (I don't say "people" because there are
humanoids on other planets who are /not/ like this) are predictable beings.
They either do this or they don't, depending on their character.
I conclude that there is something in our character (we could call it a
flaw) that exposes a flaw in other people's character. And because they
outnumber us, we are pretty much fucked until we fix /our/ flaw, or
otherwise deal with it satisfactorily.
There is no "human right" to anything. Many people would immediately kill
you if they could get away with it and if they just mildly didn't like you.
We live in the jungle, even though there are not so many trees. You can
adopt an agressive stance (but it has to be REAL agression, including
physically kicking the shit out of ANYONE that deserves it, sueing ANYONE
against which you make a chance, or exposing ANYONE as a liar that lies,
etc., or you have to try not to piss so many people off.
I have it a bit easier than you: When I piss people off, I actually am right
most of the time, and they often know this. Plus that there are hundreds of
people enjoying my work. If I would just have been a shit-talking idiot, I
would be in a world of trouble (called Earth).
tweet
> Oh and by the way - How did he know the essay was "the old hag of go"
> if he didn't see it?
Ask Chris Lawrence for a copy of this story then.
Shuurai
Renli wrote:
> tweet wrote:
> > You cited only a select part of the thread, but not it's conclusion,
> > that there was no story or essay.
>
You both only cited selected parts of the thread... the most inane
parts of a completely useless and asinine thread. The two of you
obviously have a thing for one another - there is simply no other
reason for two people intelligent enough to figure out a keyboard to be
going back and forth over something this stupid.
> When are you going to apologize for calling my wife an old hag?
Yes, he owes an apology to all of the old hags out there who aren't
known by sight at every port in the world. I heard the Navy was going
to name an aircraft carrier after your wife at one time, but then
realized it'd be silly since you can't fit nearly as many men in an
aircraft carrier.
> You cannot go back later and say "oh I meant something else", your
> words are by themself and have no other context, look again:
I honestly don't think that either of you can go back to any point of
this or any related thread and say that you means ANYTHING in ANY
context. Except for the part about your wife.
> I'm waiting.
And the fact that you really are waiting speaks volumes about your
place in the world.
> Oh and by the way - How did he know the essay was "the old hag of go"
> if he didn't see it? You yourself in one post feign ignorance of the
> existance of such a story and then talk as if you wrote it yourself.
> Which you probably did, being the vindictive backstabbing person that
> you are.
Is this the part of the conversation where you squeal like a little
girl and tear your dress?
Patrick G. Bridges
Renli wrote:
> I was wrong. I was *not* banned from IGS!
>
> I present to you what happened to Patrick Bridges as an exampe of what
> happened to me. Lets take a trip back to 2001 to realise just how far
> back tweet's deception goes.
Please keep me out of your ongoing attempt at reputation
self-immolation. I'm not at all interested in the juvenille
name-calling, victim-playing, and ego-stroking that you and some
well-known others seem determined to continue ad nauseum.
Frank de Groot
> Please keep me out of your ongoing attempt at reputation
> self-immolation. I'm not at all interested in the juvenille
> name-calling, victim-playing, and ego-stroking that you and some
> well-known others seem determined to continue ad nauseum.
Since this is a direct attack on me personally, I can't help but noticing
that you are not denying that Oliver is 100% correct, however, based on
nothing more than personal antipathy towards him, you are trying to prevent
him from presenting evidence in his favor by - pathetically - claiming some
kind of veto-rights over the use of your name.
This is a great example of something I mentioned a day ago: It is a
typically "primate" thing to throw all ethics overboard when it comes to
cherishing a personal dislike for someone.
You are sorely mistaken when you think you can distort the truth and censor
people just because you don't /like/ them.
That's Hitlerite. And we don't like that.
tweet
> Patrick G. Bridges wrote:
>
>>Please keep me out of your ongoing attempt at reputation
>>self-immolation. I'm not at all interested in the juvenille
>>name-calling, victim-playing, and ego-stroking that you and some
>>well-known others seem determined to continue ad nauseum.
>
>
> kept joining my games and insulting me, goading me, kyu players saying
One wonders why.
> stupid crap like "white is greedy", "run rabbit run" and "i'll give 3-1
> odds black loses" on move 20? To tell the truth Dinendhal ("whose
> account did you steal") was much worse, and so was Nyanjilla for that
> matter, with the sarcasm. Total disrespect. So no, I think I will bring
> up your history as I feel like it, plus, it is an extremely relevant
> history and I certainly will be mentioning it because it is evidence of
> tweet's idiocy. I can understand you not wanting to be a part of this
> whole mess, but considering that I started my usagi account as a way to
> disprove tweet's notion I was a kyu player (and what a success it
> became), I'd say you threw yourself into it, not me. Reputation
> self-immolation? You mean, when someone insults me I slap them in the
> face? No, I don't think so. I think you have been away too long.
> Perhaps an apology is in order? Ta.
>
> -
>
CornelB
> kept joining my games and insulting me, goading me, kyu players saying
> odds black loses" on move 20? To tell the truth Dinendhal ("whose
> account did you steal") was much worse, and so was Nyanjilla for that
> matter, with the sarcasm. Total disrespect. So no, I think I will bring
> up your history as I feel like it, plus, it is an extremely relevant
> history and I certainly will be mentioning it because it is evidence of
> tweet's idiocy. I can understand you not wanting to be a part of this
> whole mess, but considering that I started my usagi account as a way to
> disprove tweet's notion I was a kyu player (and what a success it
> became), I'd say you threw yourself into it, not me. Reputation
> self-immolation? You mean, when someone insults me I slap them in the
> face? No, I don't think so. I think you have been away too long.
> Perhaps an apology is in order? Ta.
Heya Fu,
Your 'usagi' loss on time was a very deceitful game ,
C.