Acceptable use
ian
"cg...@ix.cs.uoregon.edu (Carl L. Gay) writes:
>The IGS "acceptable usage" policy states
> "Use of IGS for promotion or advertising of commercial products or
> services, or promotion or advertising of any other Go-server, without
> the express, written consent of the IGS adminstrators, is prohibited."
>which should be brought together rather than torn apart. Tweet
>appears to have a pathological fear/hatred of NNGS which shows a
>lack of maturity.
The IGS usage policy was written by an Inet lawyer, and I have
been instructed by Inet to enforce their policy and usage rules.
This is not a matter of hatred. The policy and usage rules are
simple and easy to follow, and few in number. usage of IGS constitutes
acceptance of these
terms and conditions."
The last part is written by tweedie/tweet. I seem to remember it being
stated here(in rgg) that there has never been any policy against
advertising NNGS / KGS and that people are free to do so without fear
of retribution. How does that sit against Tweet's statement here?
--
"People often talk about kgs in the channels on IGS without
problems." - Tweet
Big Duck
Get a clue!
In every policy statement there is a "then" and there is a "now"
I am a Duck of my most recent word, and I would expect the same of all
fearless leaders.
I cannot speak for IGS but I can speak for a situation that I had that is
kind of similar.
Wily Mr. Skunk provided his entertainment in the forest where I live. I
accepted people talking about Wily Mr. Skunk because during that time Wily
Mr. Skunk listened to everything I told him. He was almost like a puppet to
me and my every whim. One day I told him to fire one of his administrators
who insulted me and all my workers by telling them to clean up a few eggs.
He did not fire his administrator, which was a complete slap in the face to
me and my position as fearless laeder.
From that moment forward I let my social rejects have at Wily Mr. Skunk
(Oh! how I wish my social rejects were as good as the ones here). I no
longer like Wily Mr. Skunk. I have changed my policy statement and I am
actively posting emails to rec.egg.hunt showing the world how much he blows
his top!
If you want to be a fearless leader you need to learn to "be a man of your
most recent word"
For the cause of global domination via fearless leadership,
Big Duck
PS Ban'em hard and ban them often ( ban'em if you've got ' em)
PS #2 I still hate the souless robot slow turtle and Wily Mr. Skunk too!
PS #3 The Kind gentle squirrels are not kind at all. They do not grovell
or cough up any dough to their (not so) fearless leader. What kind of sap
is Wily Mr. Skunk anyway?
"ian" <ian....@durge.org> wrote in message
news:6c099e00.03092...@posting.google.com...
Michael Alford
it's hackneyed. Get a grip, read the archives. At least bring yourself up to
speed on the issues so you don't appear as such a fool.
In article <6c099e00.03092...@posting.google.com>,
Big Duck
Malf my friend!
I think you are getting a little soft on the enemy! I think that using the
word "fool" is not strong enough. You have been practicing so hard lately
too, even using me as a sounding board for rougher language.
If you keep getting soft we may have to sign you up for a refresher course
in desensitivity training.
(I admonish you as a friend)
Big Duck
PS I hate that glowing nuclear robot slow turtle and my new arch nemesis
Wily Mr. Skunk too!
"Michael Alford" <ma...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:bko0g...@enews3.newsguy.com...
Fu, Ren-Li
> it's hackneyed.
What.. that tweet lied?
First he says there's no such policy, then there's a post from him saying
there is such a policy which was written by an inet lawyer, then you jump in
claiming it's a non-question.
Well, it isn't a non-question and it's not hackneyd. How can you possibly
stand up for such a ridiculous person?
>Get a grip, read the archives. At least bring yourself up to
> speed on the issues so you don't appear as such a fool.
Aren't you just sidestepping the issue by attacking his character, malf?
This is a very common tactic and very easy to spot. You, jeff, and tweet all
seem to do this regularly when confronted.
If it's so hackneyd make a bloody faq to explain all of the "apparent"
inconsistencies.
-frl
ian
> >Get a grip, read the archives. At least bring yourself up to
> > speed on the issues so you don't appear as such a fool.
>
> Aren't you just sidestepping the issue by attacking his character, malf?
> This is a very common tactic and very easy to spot. You, jeff, and tweet all
> seem to do this regularly when confronted.
Well two points [1] this wasn't a confrontation, it was a question [2]
the response forthcoming from malf that i read here (and presuming it
isn't edited) is abusive in nature rather than informative
>
> If it's so hackneyd make a bloody faq to explain all of the "apparent"
> inconsistencies.
>
Sadly an faq such as "how does one contravene igs acceptable use
policy" would only end up the subject of satire I suspect. I'm just
trying to ask a simple question here though - what can one say?
Michael Alford
the original articles out of the archives, you can also dig out the responses.
tweet is not a liar, and you, sirrah, are a cad for saying it. The only
"inconsistancies" I see are those in your mind and the minds of the other
slanderous trolls. How can I support tweet? Easily. tweet is an honorable
gentleman. And you, sirrah, owe tweet a large apology, although I don't expect
you to offer one.
Cheers,
Michael
In article <2sXbb.99670$DZ.9...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Fu,
ZeroKun
thing to do is just dont mention another server on igs. And im
disappointed in you ian :(
-
>>> Get a grip, read the archives. At least bring yourself up to
>>> speed on the issues so you don't appear as such a fool.
> "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
>> Aren't you just sidestepping the issue by attacking his character, malf?
>> This is a very common tactic and very easy to spot. You, jeff, and tweet
>> all seem to do this regularly when confronted.
Malf spoke directly to the issue of getting at the issues. By
way of reply, your diversion about character attacking was merely
that of character attacking, and -nothing- more.
ian....@durge.org (ian) wrote:
> Well two points [1] this wasn't a confrontation, it was a question [2]
> the response forthcoming from malf that i read here (and presuming
> it isn't edited) is abusive in nature rather than informative
Stupidity, all by itself, can be abusive when inveigling upon
the few who are providing the answers. Realize from the outset
that there was formerly a day when there were no answers, and
then the answers became carefully crafted and drafted, to be
what you "take for granted" today. You're so busy looking for
abuse, that you are digressing from the thrust of your inquiry.
> Sadly an faq such as "how does one contravene igs acceptable use
> policy" would only end up the subject of satire I suspect. I'm just
> trying to ask a simple question here though - what can one say?
Your satire to "contravene acceptable use" is missing the point.
Suggest you go back to the drawing board: start from square one.
You may find the registration policy letter, the logon agreement,
various help files and July 1995 "fair play" policy letter. Have at it.
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lab to freeze humans planned in Boca Raton
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6822915.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
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Fu, Ren-Li
> Why should I do your homework for you? If you and others of your ilk can
dig
> the original articles out of the archives, you can also dig out the
responses.
> tweet is not a liar, and you, sirrah, are a cad for saying it. The only
> "inconsistancies" I see are those in your mind and the minds of the other
> slanderous trolls. How can I support tweet? Easily. tweet is an honorable
> gentleman. And you, sirrah, owe tweet a large apology, although I don't
expect
> you to offer one.
>
Ok, so Tweet/Tweedie (Mr. Okada) made IGS. Thank you Mr. Okada for making
IGS. Ok. Now lets get to the meat of the issue. Mr. Okada is a strong player
and excellent teacher, however it appears he does not know how to act in
public and for this I have a right to slam him. After all, he slams me
without right (see fair play #5). I'm not going to let the accusations and
lies stand unchallenged right now. But perhaps I will just killfile the lot
of you as has been suggested to me numerous times by many strong and kind
players. I'm sure that makes you scared malf. Please tell me how scared you
are that I will killfile you.
You want rumors? How about the tens if not hundreds of complaint letters
posted to R.G.G. over the years? Made by the actual people involved? Made by
people like me! Not just a small minority of 4-5 people or even 10 people.
So ok, I did my homework. So here's SIX letters, mostly complaint letters
but also examples of tweet lying and violating his own policies. I'd offer
more but some of the jucier ones have been denied me - people have asked me
not to post their stories because they FEAR being attacked by jb and tweet.
It did not take very long to find these. Type in "igs banned" or "jeff
boscole banned" on google, and they will all pop up along with hundreds and
thousands of others.
You will notice that this isn't something pushed by a igs-opposing minority
of trolls, nor is it a problem that is going to go away when you and others
don't take responsibility for your actions. You will also notice that none
of these people are listed in Brent Locher's letter in 2001 containing a
list of 14 people banned from IGS for various reasons (i.e. mentioning NNGS
in private chat, for posts about other servers on RGG, and for no
discernable reason)! Yet I didn't have to look past the first page of google
groups search to find these six letters.. indicating there may be hundreds
if not thousands of similar complaints!
-----
Intermission:
"Tweet has also benefited from players who have been thrown off of IGS
and come to r.g.g. to vent their anger. Many readers of this group
seem to have become deaf to legitimate complaints because of the
screaming and yelling that has been going on. But look at the above
quoted post. That is a rant, in the worst 'home' or 'uling' tradition,
coming from the so-called IGS side. " - rett, 1996
-----
Banning people isn't the problem!
The problem is the smear campaigns, the lies, the deceit and idiocy
surrounding it and extending from it, obscuring it and becoming it's own
issue!
Tweet violates his own policies left right and center. Proof? See below.
Now, the main subject of the letters is banning but again, that's not the
issue: it's the attitude. Yes it is tweet's right to ban anyone. So
obviously thats not what I am talking about.
I'm talking about, for example...
Simple question: Why did I come under attack from tweet and jb for saying I
preferred KGS?
a) I repeat, why did I come under attack for saying I preferred KGS? I did
not violate any policy yet I was attacked first and without warning.
b) Why did tweet post a lengthy essay slamming me to the IGS web page? When
I asked for evidence after the initial accusations, I got a smear campaign
entirely supported by tweet's and jb's word against mine.
Again, I can't post some of the letters I'd like to, because I have been
asked not to mention numerous people as they are actually afraid to be
attacked again by tweet and jb! They are, in essence, sick of the whole
situation. I wouldn't blame anyone for being sick of it.
quotes follow:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notice how none of the people below violated tweet's fair play letter (#5),
yet were still banned for some kind of ulterior motive he won't divulge. You
can trust jb to say something about this as he is fed info by tweet. He'll
probably fire back with some inane nonsense, you can count on it.
1. The case of D.F.
"I have strong suspicions of being banned on IGS. Impossible, will you say.
After all, all I have done was (on rgg, of course, never on IGS)
1) To criticize Jeff Boscole (I thought this was allowed)
2) To ask (this, I admit, I have done publicly on IGS too) if tweet was in
agreement with some messages from jb, using racists innuendo (against
British players)
3) To cast polite doubts on the exact (litteral) contents of the (in)famous
letter of the examiner to tweet, as I could have sworn no well-informed
Japanese could confuse Chizu Kobayashi with anyone else.
I find now my accounts disabled.
What is the conclusion?
I will, of course, continue playing on IGS (there are many ways to
circumvent this ban, none of them "legal", of course)
But I ask for explanations."
2. The case of N.R. 1996:
" Hi. I thought I might take the time to inform rec.games.go readers that
I have been banned (I assume by tweet) from connecting to IGS. I have
attempted to contact IGS, Tweet in specific, to find out why I have been
banned. Nobody will give me an answer. I only assume that I (as well as
several other outspoken people) have been banned for posting messages
critical
of IGS on rec.games.go. No IGS people have been willing to talk to me by
email. I also tried to log into IGS and talk to tweet from another account,
however instead of replying, I found myself kicked off and those other
accounts also banned.
So, I'll submit this as one more piece of evidence. I will simply say
that I can't believe that IGS could be so childish as to ban someone for
speaking out against their policies. And, if this is not the reason, I
would
publicly request (as they have not replied to personal requests of the
same nature) that IGS let me know why I have been banned.
Thanks for listening. "
3.The case of T.E. 1996
"This is so ridiculous I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Let's think about what appears to be really going on. The only
reasonable explanation for the vicious war IGS has fought against
nngs is that the creation of an alternative server threw a monkey
wrench into IGS's plans to go commercial. Now they are cultivating
a bunch of pro events in order to offer a special service that
people will consider it to be worth paying for. This is not to
say that the IGS folks aren't doing it because they love go, I'm sure
they do, it's just that if they ONLY loved go then they would
welcome another server. To explain the campaign of disinformation
and harrassment waged against nngs we need another factor: money most
likely, ego trips, and power perhaps.
To make this harrassment look legitimate tweet has blown up a big
smokescreen of pseudo-legal issues, complete with phoney threats
that 'the pros will stop coming to servers because of those evil
nngs'rs' etc. etc. I find it very hard to believe that jpn pros
consider playing on a server to be anything other than an
interesting novelty. As for Jimmy Cha and the APGA, they need
all the publicity they can get. They are the seed of future
home-grown American pro players. I don't believe they are
as petty and greedy as tweet has painted them to be.
Tweet has also benefited from players who have been thrown off of IGS
and come to r.g.g. to vent their anger. Many readers of this group
seem to have become deaf to legitimate complaints because of the
screaming and yelling that has been going on. But look at the above
quoted post. That is a rant, in the worst 'home' or 'uling' tradition,
coming from the so-called IGS side.
It is ridiculous to even have to choose sides. I have always wanted
to play on whichever server happened to be running faster on a particular
day. But when acquaintances of mine were harrassed and banned from
IGS *for not doing anything wrong* I started thinking about all the
things I had read here the last two years.
There has also been a tricky rhetorical double-standard poisoning
the debate here: Tweet is obviously someone who is easily offended.
It is in a sense unfair to talk about him like this, in an
impersonal way instead of trying to get to know him. But, and
here's the neat trick, his persona here on r.g.g. is like some
impersonal institution. He never deigns to discuss anything with
anyone. He just makes pronouncements, and lays down the law.
For this reason it is natural to start refering to his actions
as if we were analyzing covert actions by the government. And then
his 'feelings' get hurt. You just can't have it both ways. If
you reveal your identity and show that you can be angry or happy
or nice or a jerk sometimes, then you will be treated in a more
human way as well.
I sent tweet a letter asking why I was being harrassed on igs...
no answer. I asked him in person...connection closed.
Soon I was furious.
I understand why home and uling got the way they did. Tweet
is obviously easily moved to anger as well, the difference is
that he is sitting on the kill button and seems to enjoy treating
people like dirt until they fly off the handle and he gets
the chance to start threads with titles like 'home starts
posting garbage again'. The oracle has spoken.
Lots of people will write in to say what a nice guy he is, and
I'm sure they're right. But all I've seen is the 10-storey high
.sig stomping out players who happened to help the cause
of go by providing a machine for a go server to run on.
Well I'm the first to admit that this post is getting out
of hand. Jeff Boscole makes a vicious ad hominem attack
on Erik v Riper and I prove to be no better by turning
around and insulting an obviously popular and beloved
figure in the go world, but dammit I'm really mad.
Anyway, you can lift the ban on my site tweet, because
I won't try to log onto your server any more.
--rett formerly 'everett' on igs
p.s. in case anyone is still reading, if tweet responds to this at all
he will likely include a list of my sins, so its just as well I admit
them now. My posts here anyone can look at. A year ago I *gasp*
yes I shouted the address of nngs on igs. I mentioned nngs in my
info. Then one day I was being disconnected every few seconds on
igs, and the refresh and look commands stopped working. A new account
was deleted shortly after I created it. I started trying to log on
and talk to tweet, getting killed every time I said a sentence.
This went on till I started rudely telling him that he was
neglecting his duty as an admin by not telling my if I was
actually banned or not. No swear words or anything like that.
Then in searing anger (he just logged me out continuously) I
registered two accounts to his adress trying to insult him
into speaking to me. account names were urSick and HotTwat.
Please note, that at this point I was already effectively
banned, since I couldnt be on the server longer than a
minute max, and couldnt play. I was kicked off for speaking
here on r.g.g."
4. The case of X.L. 1997
"My accounts(ii, jiang) were banned from IGS all because I
'tell' a friend of mine that I don't feel like tweet. My friend
was asking me that why I didn't register the LG on igs.
I have my reasons to dislike tweet. I have won a chance to play
Ms. Feng Yun 8p through a tournament held on nngs. But somehow
Ms. Feng Yun appeared on igs the day that I was supposed to play her
on nngs. One of tweet's friends, Songyi, directed her to igs.
I was not involved in the server war of the time. But I did feel
pathetic about tweet for the thing he did.
As a long time igser, I am always aware of what should not be said on
igs. Anyway, I don't think that 'don't feel like tweet' in a private talk
is enough to be a reason to get banned."
#5. IGS Fair Play by Tweet, 1995
" Originally I had resisted making public announcements regarding the
recent confusion on rec.games.go. However, at the urging of Phil Straus,
Frederic Chauveau, Tim Casey, many friends, and _many_ IGS'ers, I have
decided to make this announcement.
** Rumors & Reasons _ IGS bannings **
Rumors, rumors. It seems that the campaign of rumors, innuendo,
half-truths, name-calling and accusations continues. Recently, there has
been a rumor that people who participate or play on alternative internet
Go servers might/will be exiled from IGS as part of some "vendetta". A
number of IGS'ers have approached me with this concern. When I ask for
the source of their information, the source almost always is someone
whom I understand to be on a team that is currently in the process of
developing an alternative server.
There has also been a lot of confusion over why some developers
of an alternative server were banned from IGS recently. The team has
published an edited (and in my view, misleading) account of the
conversation with me before one of the members was asked to leave IGS.
The edited conversation made it appear that he was banned _only_
because he is:
a) a friend of someone I don't like personally,
b) a co-developer of an alternative Go server, and
c) another "victim" of tweet's ego.
I am sure that the development team has convinced some people (just as
they have undoubtedly convinced themselves) that they are innocent
victims - "lonely heroes" crusading for a better internet Go environment.
That is not how I see them, and in any case, that is not what I
regard to be at issue. As far as I can see, some members of the team
have been making an (apparently deliberate) attempt to undermine my
reputation and the institutional integrity of IGS. I do not intend to make
IGS available as a vehicle for communications intended to undermine
IGS. It is for _this_ reason that some members of the development team
were prohibited from using IGS. However, none of these persons has
been site-banned.
I don't believe that any friend of my "enemy" _necessarily_ must
be also my "enemy". Also, I don't care if someone is contributing to the
development of an alternative server. In my view, it is completely OK
to design and run alternative servers (provided, of course, that the legal
protections of the IGS copyright are not violated). In fact, if someone can
design and run an original program that truly benefits the Go community
and promotes the game, then I must applaud the effort. I have been
playing, teaching and promoting Go through a variety of institutions for
more than 20 years, and those who know me will know that I mean this
sincerely.
On the other hand, I *do* care about the manner in which any
alternative server is _promoted_. I find it offensive that someone
would use _our_ server to spread rumors and fear, in order to directly
promote _their_ server. Such methods directly undermine the
institutional integrity of IGS. The relationship between internet
users and the new sponsors of IGS (INET) is new, and unwarranted
attacks have hurt this relationship. Who suffers because of the war
of words? We all do, not only because the Go community has been split,
but because INET has been discouraged from providing certain additional
(and costly) benefits to IGS. One such benefit might be the introduction
pro teaching and competition on IGS, at the expense of INET. Few
non-commercial insititutions have the resources to provide such a
benefit. INET has had second thoughts about making this type of
commitment, due the (undeservedly) nasty reception they have received
from some members of the internet community.
I am aware that some people are offended by the very notion that
someone could be banned from IGS, for whatever reason. However, every
kind of server on the internet is entitled, as a matter of right (and
practical necessity), to reasonably protect its security and institutional
integrity, as well as a desirable type of environment for its participants
This protection often takes the form of a "block", preventing potential
abusers from access to the server. Admittedly, banning someone is
somewhat harsh; the result for me is always painful too, because it costs
me time that I do not have to spare. However, sometimes it's necessary.
After the edited conversation involving me appeared in
rec.games.go, some readers rushed to condemn my alleged dictatorial
arbitrariness. I would like to thank those readers who had the good
sense to know that they were hearing only one side of the story.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- -
** Policy Guidelines **
[These are guidelines based upon my own current views, and do
not necessarily reflect the opinions of my fellow administrators, INET or
any other person or institution. I have tried to foresee problems that
may arise as other alternative servers are created from time to time, but
the policies indicated below may need to be refined/amended as
circumstances warrant. In any case, they are intended to be helpful
guidelines, rather than anything fixed in stone.]
1) IGS players will NOT be banned from IGS merely because of
playing on some alternative Go server or for participating there in
normally related activities (such as teaching, tournament competition,
etc.). Enjoy your Go games!
2) Constructive suggestions for IGS is welcome. Criticism by a normal
IGS player is probably acceptable (even if an IGS administrator feels the
criticism is misguided), if the remarks are genuine and polite. Publicly-
broadcast remarks made on IGS in the nature of threats, obscenities, or
very rude personal statements are not welcome.
3) *IF* you are a developer of an alternative server, or if we think that
you are acting in concert with a developer, then you will not be welcome
on IGS if, in the opinion of an IGS administrator, you deliberately:
a) use IGS methods of communication to actively promote the
other server or its activities; or
b) use IGS to spread remarks designed to undermine confidence in
IGS, or to undermine the relationship between IGS and its
sponsors; or
c) spread remarks about IGS (whether on IGS, or in newsgroups,
or otherwise), in a pattern of deceit, half-truths, malicious
name-calling, false accusations, threats or obscenity; or
d) are developing a server which, in the opinion of the IGS
administrators, infringes on the IGS copyrights.
IGS has always been a friendly and relaxed place and I hope that it
will continue to be so. Its hard to write any fixed rules for conduct
without appearing to be overly-rigid, but I hope that the guidelines
above will at least present my own views, and ease some of the fears
which have increased as a result of the recent rumors. Please contact me
directly to check out the truthfulness of rumors and any bizarre or
or arbitrary policies. Only official statements from IGS administrators
should be considered as policy, and not hearsay.
6. " In all honesty, I had
: nothing to do with Everett's problems. However, because of Everett's
: preconceived "attitude", he was quick to accuse me for "harassment". " -
tweet, 1996.
"] IGS has repeatedly shown that it will harrass and ban people for
] criticisms they express here on r.g.g. It is natural for a go player
] to hide his identity
The persuasions above are sometimes expressed here, and most often
by a tiny group. Besides possibly being banned from IGS for
expressing negative views about IGS, another such persuasion is
one will be banned from IGS for simply mentioning another server.
These allegations are false, a myth, and often times stated by
those having received some type of reprimand. After being banned,
some will claim their only intemperance was to mention another server,
when in fact their transgression was something else."
In the above letter and others posted by tweet, he will often give examples
such as the following (from the same letter):
"Case 1:
Recently somebody posted they were banned from IGS, and also how they
came to be banned. Readers could have been mislead by this posting,
in that the person who made this posting failed to mention he was no
longer banned and was freely using IGS. He also failed to mention how
he returned. When questioned about this omission, the excuse given
was that he hadn't thought of mentioning he was no longer banned."
The above letters by tweet and the experiences of users presented, boldly
confront "fair play" and jb/tweet's claim of innocence.
Relying on one small inconsistency in the complaint to invalidate the entire
complaint, or claiming "authority" based on some long ago post or policy is
a transparrent tactic.
In essence it sidesteps the issue, and attempts to undermine the character
of the person involved, a standard legal trick used by courtroom lawyers.
This isn't a court. No one is on trial here. It is my sincere desire though
that everyone be responsible for their actions in this matter. Tweet should
probably resign from his position at IGS for his scandalous actions.
How many people must become involved and/or TRAMPLED before they can no
longer be silenced? What's the count on rgg now.. 100? 200? There sure are a
lot of archived posts on google. Minority indeed. You mean the big go server
smearing, crushing and silencing the little go players who don't know
anything and have misplaced their trust in Mr. Okada. People like me. That
makes me very very angry.
-frl
ian
> its amazing you people take the time to care about this crap. Simplest
> thing to do is just dont mention another server on igs. And im
> disappointed in you ian :(
o_O
well it doesn't keep me awake at nights you know ;-)
Newsgroups are the correctplace for trivia, I'm just asking what the
policy really means. ZeroKun says don't mention anything, tweet says
plenty of people mention servers.
Which is the case? That isn't an offensive question. It is asking for
the current situation of IGS policy which seems to be possibly in a
state of flux. If somebody can explain to me how asking this is evil
I'll sit back and take stock of my life.
Michael Alford
>Newsgroups are the correctplace for trivia, I'm just asking what the
>policy really means. ZeroKun says don't mention anything, tweet says
>plenty of people mention servers.
>
>Which is the case? That isn't an offensive question. It is asking for
>the current situation of IGS policy which seems to be possibly in a
>state of flux. If somebody can explain to me how asking this is evil
>I'll sit back and take stock of my life.
OK, I will assume for the moment that you are not trolling. As I read
the Usage Agreement, and the Policy Statement, what is forbidden by
the _OWNERS_ of IGS is advertising, and there is no "flux" in this
policy, it's been in place since 1995. People on IGS talk about
different servers and web pages all the time, they simply do it in
channel or in private chats. What gets the admins' attention is using
the shout command, or putting advertising in the Info line of your
stats. There was an exception to the channel chat, when one Steve
Fawthrop used an IGS channel to recruit people to go to NNGS. While
Fawthrop has denied doing this on more than one occasion on this
newsgroup, it is still the case that his behavior was observed for a
period of some two weeks, I believe, before the admins did anything
about it. Simply talking about other servers and web pages will not
bring down any retribution. Just do not advertise.
Also, I would like to speak to this practice of laying everything on
tweet's doorstep. tweet is only one of some 23(?) admins. If you
review the archives, you will find that the last three or so people
that posted "My account is disabled, tweet doesn't respond to me,
tweet is an ogre!", had their accounts disabled by another admin
entirely, tweet knew nothing about it, and had to trace down the
problem by reading through the written reports (required) of the other
admins. Further, they had sent their email to the IGS admins email,
not to tweet. As jb has posted several times, tweet is constrained in
his role of admin to enforcing the policies of the owners.
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Alford
Case in point: I once posted that the entire number of people who had had an
account disabled by IGS, since inception, was a mere 40, and at that time, the
number was 12. One of those 12 was the same rett you quote. IGS has _NO_
policy for disabling accounts. As a result of my post to rgg, not only rett,
but most of the other 12 came back to IGS. Since that post, a few others have
had accounts disabled, but as of this moment, it is still only Van Riper that
is denied access to IGS. You can find articles posted by one Carl Gay, but he
stays away from IGS of his own volition. As for your claim that you've been
slimed on an IGS web page, I defy you to provide the url. You can put your
anger where the sun doesn't shine, you're nothing but a troll. You don't know
enough rgg history to participate in a meaningful manner. Go away.
Cheers,
Michael
In article <wq1cb.101224$DZ.2...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>, "Fu,
Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
>..sig stomping out players who happened to help the cause
Big Duck
It is so good to hear from you tonight.
I was getting lonely here today, waiting for someone to reply to kungfu! I
guess we can all tweedie pile on him now! (come on Hoeber, Mclellon, jb,
and Alex Poppycock, ollie and Strmpl - its a tweedie pile!)
Can you believe how he is bringing up people who were banned from IGS and
have looked back like lot's wife and been turned into pillars of salt? You
are right, he does not understand. Rett was welcomed back. Of course it
was only after he was discovered to be the strongest pro in the world (
11p). I think this is the only case in history where IGS grovelled to get
him back as opposed to the player grovelling to get back to IGS.
FRL is very silly to think that he can pull up information from the archives
and prove anything. He does not get it does he?
Hey FRL! when are you going to learn that loyalty trumps everything?
Loyalty trumps archives and logic and any sense of principle. When you
learn this, grovel, appologize, promise to never act up again, quit posting
bad things, stop removing the wrong stones, quit using a handle from a
crummy 1970's tv show, and humble yourself, then maybe then, you will be
worthy to join up in the cause of being a follower on the winning side.
You are on the losing side frl!
Malf,
Keep up the good work. A reward awaits you!
Your frined in the service of restoring order the the world,
Big Duck
PS I hate everyone that does not hate who I hate!
"Michael Alford" <ma...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:bkqn5...@enews1.newsguy.com...
Ben Finney
> its amazing you people take the time to care about this crap. Simplest
> thing to do is just dont mention another server on igs.
Indeed. And the simplest thing to do to avoid censorship is to never
say anything the government doesn't like.
--
\ "Here is a test to see if your mission on earth is finished. If |
`\ you are alive, it isn't." -- Francis Bacon |
_o__) |
Ben Finney <http://bignose.squidly.org/>
Chris Lawrence
> about it. Simply talking about other servers and web pages will not
> bring down any retribution. Just do not advertise.
Can this be clarified somewhat please. On KGS I've often chatted with a
newish players and said things like "also check out IGS as another good
server to play on". Nothing wrong with that.
If I was having a similar conversation on IGS and said "take a look at
KGS, it has a really intuitive interface which you might find good for
teaching" - is that allowed or not?
--
Chris
Roy Schmidt
I think your memory is faulty. Tweet said that people mentioned other
servers in channels on IGS without any punitive action. But
advertising would be a different thing. That is, it is one thing to
say to a friend in a channel, "Let's meet on xGS in an hour, and I'll
show you that game." But quite another to shout, "Now in xGS, Dango
9p is playing forkhead 4d! Special events every day on xGS!"
It's like being in Sears and mentioning to someone that you bought a
nice set of towels in Penny's, versus carrying an advertising banner
for Penny's into the Sears store.
Why try to start a row over nothing?
--
my reply-to address is gostoned at insightbb dot com
-------------------------------------------------
Roy Schmidt
Part-time Translator for Yutopian
Full-time Professor of Business Computer Systems
Bradley University
Big Duck
You are a very astute man!
Thanks for you input. Hopefully ian will see the error of his thought
Your friend,
Big Duck
PS I Hate slow turd-el and Wily Mr. Skunk too!
"Roy Schmidt" <r...@anti-spam.com> wrote in message
news:xx6cb.564682$uu5.93061@sccrnsc04...
Steve Fawthrop
others. We said "let's meet on NNGS to continue our lesson" because IGS was
too slow. And we said this in a channel. Most of the others got back on by
sending a pleading letter to tweet but I refused so I did not get back on. I
commented on this in RGG and as a result I am still banned, five years
later.
"Roy Schmidt" <r...@anti-spam.com> wrote in message
news:xx6cb.564682$uu5.93061@sccrnsc04...
>
Tweedie
"Steve Fawthrop" <some...@nowhere.com> writes:
>But this is EXACTLY why I was first banned from IGS, along with several
>others. We said "let's meet on NNGS to continue our lesson" because IGS was
>too slow. And we said this in a channel.
Hardy. Your teaching channel was highly suspicious to begin with. You
flamed igs several times in favor of nngs, but you started teaching on
igs instead. For two weeks Prior to being banned, that channel (channels
are public, not private) was basically a nngs recruiting center. Another
admin, who was also suspicious, kept an open eye and saved these two weeks
worth of channel 'yells'. He showed this log to the other admins when it
became clear this channel was a nngs recruiting center. An admin called
'artemis' decided on the ban. 'artemis' and 'taeha' were the main admins at
this time.
>Most of the others got back on by sending a pleading letter to tweet
>but I refused so I did not get back on.
The letters were not pleading letters, and you did get back on and
most recently registered two accounts on igs, with one account having
the misleading address 'IGSPandaNet'. Several users were confused
and thought this account was an official igs admin account and called
this account to my attention (one of the users recognized parts of address
and asked why was a kgs admin using an address with 'IGSPandaNet').
>"Roy Schmidt" <r...@anti-spam.com> wrote in message
>news:xx6cb.564682$uu5.93061@sccrnsc04...
>>
>> I think your memory is faulty. Tweet said that people mentioned other
>> servers in channels on IGS without any punitive action. But
>> advertising would be a different thing. That is, it is one thing to
>> say to a friend in a channel, "Let's meet on xGS in an hour, and I'll
>> show you that game." But quite another to shout, "Now in xGS, Dango
>> 9p is playing forkhead 4d! Special events every day on xGS!"
>>
>> It's like being in Sears and mentioning to someone that you bought a
>> nice set of towels in Penny's, versus carrying an advertising banner
>> for Penny's into the Sears store.
>>
>> Why try to start a row over nothing?
>>
, ,
/( )\
\ \_/ / , /\ ,
/_ _\ /| || |\
| \> </ | |\_||_/|
(_ ^ _) \____/
/`\|IIIII|/`\ _\/_
\ \_____/ / ()
/\ )=( /\ ()
jgs / `-.\=/.-' \ ()
ChipsChap
Really, really I need to fix my killfile.
Fu, Ren-Li
> More drivel. Your homework grade is, in bright red, F-
personal attack #1
> Case in point: I once posted that the entire number of people who had had
an
> account disabled by IGS, since inception, was a mere 40, and at that time,
the
> number was 12. One of those 12 was the same rett you quote. IGS has _NO_
> policy for disabling accounts.
lie #1 (see letter #5 in my original post)
> As a result of my post to rgg, not only rett,
> but most of the other 12 came back to IGS. Since that post, a few others
have
> had accounts disabled, but as of this moment, it is still only Van Riper
that
> is denied access to IGS.
Lie #2, access is reinstated only after it is made clear the user wishes no
contact. This is a debating trick you're using, malf. It wont hold water
with me.
> You can find articles posted by one Carl Gay, but he
> stays away from IGS of his own volition.
case in point. Why would he WANT to use IGS after how he was treated?
Acces was returned. Was it returned with a formal apology?
> As for your claim that you've been
> slimed on an IGS web page, I defy you to provide the url.
Tweet posted it.
> You can put your
> anger where the sun doesn't shine, you're nothing but a troll.
Personal attack #2.
> You don't know
> enough rgg history to participate in a meaningful manner.
Personal attack #3. Tweet and JB made me a part of that history, so I
definately have a meaningful participation - at least to those who involved
me.
> Go away.
impudent command #1.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
It does not matter if rett was welcomed back.
It only matters how he felt and how he was treated at the time.
I myself will not be making any apologies to anyone for liking non-IGS go
servers.
I did not violate IGS use policy. I do not even use IGS. So tweet and jb can
take their flames and go to hell.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
news:bkr1b3$cq7$1...@yggdrasil.utfors.se...
>
> Hardy. Your teaching channel was highly suspicious to begin with.
This (and the other accusations you make) doesen't sound like the man I and
hundreds of others know. Personally, this man has been of more value to me
than IGS has, and that's saying a lot. I played more than 2,000 games on IGS
over more than 3 years.
Furthermore anything you say is highly suspicious as well, since look at all
of the things you've said about me! I could name a lot of people on IGS who
value and respect playing a game with me, and who were dear friends to me
and go learning partners. It is a sort of honor for me to know those people
as well, but I can't exactly mention them, to protect their innocence.
Oh, I did play a game with malf a couple years ago, I believe.
-frl
-
Forwarded via anonymous lurker service to: fr...@rogers.com
> "Michael Alford" <ma...@spiritone.com> wrote:
>> More drivel. Your homework grade is, in bright red, F-
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> personal attack #1
Referenced "your homework grade", not your person.
(Malf = +1 pt.)
>> Case in point: I once posted that the entire number of people who
>> had had an account disabled by IGS, since inception, was a mere 40,
>> and at that time, the number was 12. One of those 12 was the same
>> rett you quote. IGS has _NO_ policy for disabling accounts.
> lie #1 (see letter #5 in my original post)
I did not find the technical term "disabling" on a word search.
So "Fu, Ren-Li's" -allegation- of a lie was instead itself a lie.
(Malf = +2 pts.)
>> As a result of my post to rgg, not only rett, but most of the other
>> 12 came back to IGS. Since that post, a few others have had
>> accounts disabled, but as of this moment, it is still only Van Riper
>> that is denied access to IGS.
> Lie #2, access is reinstated only after it is made clear the user wishes
> no contact. This is a debating trick you're using, malf. It wont hold
> water with me.
The "no contact" provision has never been a condition for reinstatement.
(Malf = +3 pts.)
>> You can find articles posted by one Carl Gay, but he
>> stays away from IGS of his own volition.
> case in point. Why would he WANT to use IGS after how he was treated?
Why would IGS want Carl Gay to play there, after how IGS was treated?
(No points awarded.)
> Acces was returned. Was it returned with a formal apology?
Care to rephrase your question into -unambiguous- language?
>> As for your claim that you've been
>> slimed on an IGS web page, I defy you to provide the url.
> Tweet posted it.
So I conduct a "google" search on "tweet" + "url" ?
>> You can put your
>> anger where the sun doesn't shine, you're nothing but a troll.
> Personal attack #2.
True. (Points for Malf = +3 pts. Points for "Fu, Ren-Li" = +1 pt.)
>> You don't know
>> enough rgg history to participate in a meaningful manner.
> Personal attack #3. Tweet and JB made me a part of that history,
> so I definately have a meaningful participation - at least to those
> who involved me.
I don't agree that history knowledge is a participation prerequisite.
(Points for Malf = +3 pts. Points for "Fu, Ren-Li" = +2 pts.)
>> Go away.
> impudent command #1.
True.
(Points for Malf = +3 pts., Points for "Fu, Ren-Li" = +3 pts.)
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> I myself will not be making any apologies to anyone for liking
> non-IGS go servers.
Nobody has even suggested that you need to apologize for that. The
July 1995 "fair play" policy letter: Tweet said "Enjoy your Go games!"
Conduct a "word-phrase search" to obtain the -context- of that...
> I did not violate IGS use policy. I do not even use IGS. So tweet and jb
> can take their flames and go to hell.
Excuse me. I have not flamed you on -this- Subject: line. So you
have lost -this- debate already, owing to your preconceptual prejudice.
(Deduct three points from "Fu, Ren-Li" for preconceptual prejudice.)
- regards
- jb
(Points for Malf = +3 pts. Points for "Fu, Ren-Li" = 0 Pts.)
CAMPAIGN CHASES EROTIC MAPPLETHORPE NUDE PHOTOS OF SCHWARZENEGGER
http://www.drudgereport.com/arnold.htm
MICROSOFT CLOSES CHATROOMS TO CURB PEDOPHILE MENACE...
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059480062183&p=1012571727088
Clinton 'History' Doesn't Repeat Itself in China
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/24/international/asia/24CHIN.html?ex=1064980800&en=2447c1a381a64ce5&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
Barbra Streisand Says She's Bored by Her Own Songs
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A53794-2003Sep23?language=printer
-------------------------------------------------------------------
_Vicious_Cycle_ (30 years), by Lynyrd Skynyrd
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tweedie
>This (and the other accusations you make) doesen't sound like the man I and
>hundreds of others know. Personally, this man has been of more value to me
Well, it is not my name that is in the FBI files for ID Theft.
malf:
>>As for your claim that you've been
>> slimed on an IGS web page, I defy you to provide the url.
Fu:
>Tweet posted it.
There has never been an igs web page about you, and Tweet never
posted it.
Nick Wedd
<ma...@spiritone.com> writes
>it is still only Van Riper that
>is denied access to IGS.
I think what Michael means here is "all the others will be admitted back
if they grovel enough".
Of course it is impossible to obtain any hard facts. When tweet decides
to ban someone, he does not inform them that they have been banned, let
alone why.
There are also those who are not fully banned, but have some IGS
features disabled.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
ian
> "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> writes:
>
>
> >>As for your claim that you've been
> >> slimed on an IGS web page, I defy you to provide the url.
>
> Fu:
> >Tweet posted it.
>
>
> There has never been an igs web page about you, and Tweet never
> posted it.
There is no list, and Syria is not on it.
Only a fool prefers semantics to reality
Michael Alford
Well, I see that it is time that the benefit of doubt be revoked.
You are indeed nothing but another slanderous troll.
Cheers,
Michael
Big Duck
It is indeed disheartening to see another troll emerge. The world just
cannot stand success and true leadership. People will only tear down tear
down tear down. What is it about human nature that takes from the public
domain and then criticizes it? Another ingrate who only takes, never
contributes and then turns on the very hand that has so plentifully fed him!
The other thing that I do not fully understand is why do the inferior
services that cater to the total retards, rejects and ingrate -- why is it
that they do not get any criticism. It is like the retards cannot see how
inferior and soulless these centers of go really are. They cannot see the
derision that these go servers deserve (oh!, the theivery of NNGS and the
honey pot admins of KGS)
At times it can be very discouraging. But the ingrates are but a drop in
the bucket of the entire go community, and they do serve a greater purpose:
namely to be made an example of. If we perservere we can continue to weed
out the ingrates and keep go even more pure and enjoyable for the others
that are loyal.
(We need more players that do not express their own independent opinions on
rgg and that associate with bad go servers and that write bad web pages. and
we shall succeed if we keep striking the anvil)
Malf!,
Stand tall in your unwavering efforts to keep go pure! Never give in to
those that would undermine the joy of go on the internet. Stay true and a
reward shall await you
Sincerely,
Your very very very very very good friend,
Big Duck
PS I hate slow turtle and Wily Mr. Skunk too!
"Michael Alford" <ma...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:bkro6...@enews1.newsguy.com...
Nick Wedd
<ma...@spiritone.com> writes
> Well, I see that it is time that the benefit of doubt be revoked.
> You are indeed nothing but another slanderous troll.
You are right, malf. We are all slanderous trolls here, except you,
tweet, jb, Big Duck, Hoeber, and McClendon. You should killfile
everyone else and save yourself a lot of grief.
Patrick Bridges
> Since that post, a few others have had accounts disabled, but as of
> this moment, it is still only Van Riper that is denied access to
> IGS.
This silliness again. I thought malf was dead and you wanted
reasonable, honest debate, Micheal, not the same old word twisting
games of "blocked" versus "banned" versus "indefinitely temporarily
disabled." I guess I should have known better.
Specifically, I knnow of an IP address that is currently (Wed Sep 24
09:59 GMT 2003) blocked from connecting to IGS. This IP address is the
personal home network of one person who is not Eric van Riper. That IP
address was apparently blocked from accessing IGS not long after
he/she successfully registered an account and connected to IGS from
that machine. Are you somehow saying that blocking the IP address of
someone's personal home network after they use it to successfully
connect to IGS is not an attempt to deny IGS access to that person?
--
Patrick G. Bridges bri...@cs.unm.edu GPG ID = CB074C71
GPG fingerprint = FEEA ECFF 1E23 148C 2804 FDD9 DB63 6993 CB07 4C71
"Anyone that can't make money on Sports Night should get out of the
money-making business" - Calvin, on the last episode of Sports Night
W
message news:slrnbn1s3p.s0.bi...@rose.localdomain.fake...
> On 23 Sep 2003 11:38:52 -0700, ZeroKun wrote:
> > its amazing you people take the time to care about this crap. Simplest
> > thing to do is just dont mention another server on igs.
>
> Indeed. And the simplest thing to do to avoid censorship is to never
> say anything the government doesn't like.
Most free speech advocates agree; free speech on your own property and in
public: good, a right to do what you wish on anothers property: bad.
You're totally free to put up your own go server and allow advertising.
That's what free speech means. NOT that you can paint your message on your
neighbours house against his will. No matter how pretty or important the
message is.
Big Duck
If you only knew how much you fry the whole idea of fearless leadership!
You are a rat to be crushed.
You are a cockroach that should be exterminated.
You will never be successful in a successful kingdom. I hope you get some
small degree of enjoyment from your association with KGS (are you a sap
too? - pay to lead?). I hope you get some enjoyment because it will be all
the more enjoyable for me to watch your total grief when KGS flames out and
becomes another steaming heap of worthless junk (like NNGS) in cyberspace.
Big Duck
PS If you begin a long protracted groveling/apology campaign there may
still be a very very tiny window of opportunity for you to get back into the
fold
"Patrick Bridges" <bri...@cs.unm.edu> wrote in message
news:m2vfri1...@saguaro.cs.unm.edu...
ian
<snipped and foled into attractive oragami design>
It does indeed take some time to read through the results of tweet +
ban.
The post that caught both our interests is number 4. This didn't
receive any explanation on rgg and seems completely over the top and
downright malicious action from an admin to me. Moreover I still can't
get over the fact that private messages are not private on the server.
Is this the case on any other servers?
-
ian....@durge.org (ian) wrote:
> There is no list, and Syria is not on it.
> Only a fool prefers semantics to reality
Hadn't Alfred Korzybski, author of _Science_and_Sanity_ (1933) and
exponent of "General Semantics" said: "The map is not the territory"?
In what fashion was the study of semantics -delusional- about reality?
- regards
- jb
ian
> > Indeed. And the simplest thing to do to avoid censorship is to never
> > say anything the government doesn't like.
>
> Most free speech advocates agree; free speech on your own property and in
> public: good, a right to do what you wish on anothers property: bad.
>
considered there property, and where one is allowed to speak.
> You're totally free to put up your own go server and allow advertising.
> That's what free speech means. NOT that you can paint your message on your
> neighbours house against his will. No matter how pretty or important the
> message is.
Do you find it interesting that a server (which people have been
advocating is not as commercially driven as some others) chooses to
enforce such a policy. What drives it? Is it the question of property?
Is it the illusion of territory? Or is it just so they can go that
extra mile to promote the enjoyment of go?
Nobody has yet clarified what actually constitutes advertising yet,
and when they do it would be nice if they could clarify the why to.
ZeroKun
> godma...@yahoo.com (ZeroKun) wrote in message news:<1d50d6a5.03092...@posting.google.com>...
> > its amazing you people take the time to care about this crap. Simplest
> > disappointed in you ian :(
>
> o_O
>
> well it doesn't keep me awake at nights you know ;-)
>
> Newsgroups are the correctplace for trivia, I'm just asking what the
> policy really means. ZeroKun says don't mention anything, tweet says
> plenty of people mention servers.
>
> Which is the case? That isn't an offensive question. It is asking for
> the current situation of IGS policy which seems to be possibly in a
> state of flux. If somebody can explain to me how asking this is evil
> I'll sit back and take stock of my life.
Well if he does thats ok
mullens
>
> Really, really I need to fix my killfile.
Really, I don't know how you can say this.
If you had been reading for long, you would know how much like
a breath of fresh air it is to have Big Duck posting here.
Richard
Tweedie
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote in message
<snipped and foled into attractive oragami design>
ian:
"The post that caught both our interests is number 4. This didn't
receive any explanation on rgg and seems completely over the top and
downright malicious action from an admin to me. Moreover I still can't
get over the fact that private messages are not private on the server.
Is this the case on any other servers?"
ian didn't cite 'number 4' from Fu's carefully selected 'evidence'.
-- begin cite 'number 4'
4. The case of X.L. 1997
"My accounts(ii, jiang) were banned from IGS all because I
'tell' a friend of mine that I don't feel like tweet. My friend
was asking me that why I didn't register the LG on igs.
I have my reasons to dislike tweet. I have won a chance to play
Ms. Feng Yun 8p through a tournament held on nngs. But somehow
Ms. Feng Yun appeared on igs the day that I was supposed to play her
on nngs. One of tweet's friends, Songyi, directed her to igs.
I was not involved in the server war of the time. But I did feel
pathetic about tweet for the thing he did.
As a long time igser, I am always aware of what should not be said on
igs. Anyway, I don't think that 'don't feel like tweet' in a private talk
is enough to be a reason to get banned."
-- end cite 'number 4'
ian says 'number 4' didn't receive any explanation 'on rgg', but it did
receive an explanation. ian didn't do his homework.
'X.L.' was XSL on IGS. XSL claimed:
1) he was banned from IGS for saying he didn't like tweet, and
2) tweet's pathetic act prevented him from playing Ms. Feng Yun 8p
as a result of a tournament game on IGS
The following contracts '2)', followed by '1)' the reason
why XSL was banned from IGS.
-- begin '2)'
>From: kl...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu (Dr. Kuo-Chi Lin)
Subject: Server Wars- A Proposal
Date: 1996/04/12
Message-ID: <4klpb6$6...@news.cc.ucf.edu>
organization: University of Central Florida
newsgroups: rec.games.go
I am posting this for nomad, who can'y post on r.g.g..
Kurt
=====================nomad's post starts here===================
In a recent post by Robert Muldowney, he said:
>From: Muld...@bms.com (Robert S. Muldowney)
>Newsgroups: rec.games.go
>Subject: Server Wars- A proposal
>Date: 11 Apr 1996 14:15:27 GMT
>The server war now seems to be spreading to innocent bystanders. I
>recently ran a tournament where the top prize was a teaching game with
>Feng Yun 8p. The winner of this tournament was xsl. As the tournament
>was held on NNGS the teaching game was to be played there. When the time
>for the scheduled game came, it was discovered that she was playing on IGS.
>I suddenly felt like a victim from a conflict unrelated to myself,
>xsl or Feng Yun. I could not make sense of such a deliberate
>underhanded act....
Since I have spoken to several people involved in the demo games by Ms.
Feng and, indeed, I played a game with her on IGS, I wish to point out this
accusation of "underhanded act" has no basis whatsoever. Nor does the
statement by geek that someone on IGS "intimidated" Ms. Feng into playing
on IGS.
A person from Beijing contacted IGS administrator tweet in mid-March that
Ms. Feng "will be on IGS March 31 to play some games". Tweet asked for
confirmation and a specific time, received both, and then posted an
announcement in the IGS motd. Several days later, I saw on rec.games.go
that _at the same time_ Ms. Feng was to play on NNGS. I asked tweet about
the conflict, he said he would seek a re-confirmation. I asked geek as
well, he told me tweet was mistaken, Ms. Feng would play on NNGS and "it
was always that way, someone should tell tweet that".
Tweet received an answer of his request for confirmation that Ms. Feng
would play on IGS, but possibly at a later time than previously stated. So
a new motd was posted on IGS to that effect. Ms. Feng requested to play
"nomad" or "thug" when on IGS (apparently from suggestions by their mutual
friends, Hua Yigang, Yang Hui, and Wang Runan 8p's). So I was contacted by
tweet to see if I could come at that time to IGS and "hang around for a
couple of hours". Well, that evening I had a social event, so I was not
able to come to IGS at the pre-determined time. I told tweet that, but
both of us felt there probably would have been no problem, especially if
Ms. Feng was going to play xsl on NNGS first. I further suggested that
tweet ask someone to show up earlier in case Ms. Feng did come at the
scheduled hour. Tweet agreed and asked lyu.
Throughout this negotiation, I know of no "intimidation", nothing
"underhanded". In fact, as you can see, we were quite ready to accept that
Ms. Feng would play on NNGS first and then show up on IGS.
The rest, as they say, is history. Ms. Feng did not show up on NNGS for
her own reasons that I am not certain of and, from what I can gather, no
one else knows either. "xsl" was on travel that day, perhaps the Beijing
people knew of it and changed their plan?
I am posting this message in the hope that we would be a bit more careful
in jumping to conclusion of conspiracy in the future. It seems that every
time I read something here from people closely associated with NNGS, it
always ends with strong-worded condemnation of IGS, but I see very little
the other way around. The "server war" seems to be a very one-sided
raging.
Rob Muldoney further stated:
>I suggest a public statement of policy from the administration of both
>servers to the effect that they will take no action to interfere with the
>daily running of or special events on any other server. As for IGS, I
>feel they should publicly apologize to me, xsl, the Go community and
>>especially to Feng Yun for their disruption of a public Go event.
Frankly I see very little of IGS interfering with NNGS. And, this call for
apology is perhaps based on a very quick jump to conclusion without knowing
the facts?
nomad on IGS
email: t...@ee.rochester.edu
*******************************************
Thomas Y. Hsiang
Professor of Electrical Engineering
University of Rochester
Rochester, NY 14627
(716) 275-3293 fax: (716) 473-0486
-- end '2)'
-- begin '1)'
'XSL' claimed in 'number 4' (which was carefully selected by Fu) he
was banned because he said he didn't like tweet. The following is
a copy and paste sent to IGS by the recipient of 'tells' from 'XSL':
XSL: Sun Aug 3 10:06:42 1997
*XSL*: I perfer u shut up!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
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*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your mother!!!!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
XSL: Sun Aug 3 10:21:47 1997
XSL: Sun Aug 3 10:22:34 1997
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: ur jerk, no need to app. :)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother1!
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: My dought is ur sister :)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: tats CK
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck ur mother too, ur sister avaible?:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
XSL: Sun Aug 3 10:38:04 1997
*XSL*: fuck your sister if you have any!:)
etc....
..end '2)'
-
ian....@durge.org (ian) wrote:
> It does indeed take some time to read through the results
> of tweet + ban.
Thereby you should not mind taking a few more minutes
to read through an more complete accounting of those results.
> The post that caught both our interests is number 4. This didn't
> receive any explanation on rgg and seems completely over the
> top and downright malicious action from an admin to me. Moreover
> I still can't get over the fact that private messages are not private
> on the server. Is this the case on any other servers?
What? "Over the top" events -rare- for rec.games.go ?
First of all, the accounts(ii, jiang) were never "banned" at IGS.
Nor were accounts(ii, jiang) ever deregistered or tampered with.
"Xiangshang Li (xl...@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu)" was inventing fiction:
However there was -another- account of "XSL" which was banned,
and this may also correspond to "Xiangshang Li". If so, then Mr.
Xiangshang Li might be embarassed to learn of the reasons why,
which could also explain why he doesn't refer to account "XSL".
Second, a -problem- occurred with Ms. Feng Yun's play on NNGS
when the intermediary - songyi - became confused about the fact
that there were -two- Go Servers instead of only one. His confusion
was engendered by the "look & feel" similarity between IGS and that
rip-off clone NNGS. So when "songyi" was setting up arrangements
for Ms. Feng Yun's play, he was (presumably) corresponding with both
"Tweet" -and- "somebody else at NNGS" concurrently, thinking that
they were both individuals of the same Go Server organization (sic!).
Yet another background on "songyi" may be found at the document:
ftp://igs.joyjoy.net/Go/articles/rec.games.go/cheating.txt
so "songyi" was "a friend of sprint's", not any close acquaintance of
Tweet. Don't be confused about the -unrelated- circumstances in this
other incident, involving cheating during the Amateur LG Cup games.
Now "songyi" thought that he was going to arrange play with a
strong player on "the Go Server". NNGS tournament directors thought
that "songyi" was arranging a match between Ms. Feng Yun and their
tournament winner, who was (presumably) "Xiangshang Li". The IGS
admin(s) thought "songyi" was arranging a match between Ms. Feng Yun
and some strong player at IGS (at that time to be determined), who turned
out to be player account "nomad". Prior to the conflicting day and time,
somebody (maybe this was "nomad") -brought- to Tweet's attention
the fact that the IGS `motd' announcement seemed to promise a Ms.
Feng Yun match -identically- with some announcement from NNGS.
Useful backgrounder links to fill in some of the messy details:
Match between Feng Yun 8p and xsl postponed:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=4jqre2%24hfj%40leaohp1.epfl.ch&rnum=62&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2B%2522Feng%2522%2Bgroup:rec.games.go%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26scoring%3Dd%26as_drrb%3Db%26as_mind%3D1%26as_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D1995%26as_maxd%3D24%26as_maxm%3D9%26as_maxy%3D1999%26selm%3D4jqre2%2524hfj%2540leaohp1.epfl.ch%26rnum%3D62
Er... one last adjustment:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22Feng%22+group:rec.games.go&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=24&as_maxm=9&as_maxy=1999&selm=4jefk9%24128f%40news.cuny.edu&rnum=65
Time clarification for Ms. Feng Yun on NNGS:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22Feng%22+group:rec.games.go&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=24&as_maxm=9&as_maxy=1999&selm=4jed1p%24111e%40news.cuny.edu&rnum=66
Feng Yun, 8p China to play on NNGS:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22Feng%22+group:rec.games.go&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&as_drrb=b&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=1995&as_maxd=24&as_maxm=9&as_maxy=1999&selm=4jebj8%24rnl%40news.cuny.edu&rnum=67
So this turned out to be something complicated, also from the
NNGS perspective, in nailing down the exact time, which makes
it difficult to determine whether a conflict was brewing in advance.
When "sonyi" asked about the phenomenon of -two- Go Servers,
each "look alikes", Tweet did -not- himself reply to this query, but
asked other intermediaries to supply "songyi" with a -history- of the
IGS/NNGS fallout. Tweet's advice to Ms. Feng Yun was "play on both"
servers. With information supplied to "songyi", however, concerning
history about NNGS, then maybe forwarded to Ms. Feng Yun, she
herself -chose- not to play on NNGS. This can be verified simply
by contacting the principals. Why no "follow-up game" transpired,
which "could" have been -easily- arranged, is anybody's guess.
If "Xiangshang Li" really wished to play Ms. Feng Yun, then she
might have -consented- to supply her side of the bargain on IGS.
So "Xiangshang Li" may be mistakenly interpreting the lack of any
promissory game as a "banning", which can be "fixed" easily even
at this late date, by -playing- a game with Ms. Feng Yun anywhere
on the Internet, on -any- Go Server, -except- NNGS apparently.
Yet Ms. Feng Yun can -review- any materials from all parties. If
NNGS wishes to persuade her then it's possible she might change
her mind and -agree- to play that "follow-up game" on NNGS.
Doubtful, maybe. In any case where there's a will there's a way.
- regards
- jb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the difference between a Harley and a Hoover?
The position of the dirt bag.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Microsoft Monopoly Represents National Security Risk,
Say Internet Security Experts
http://www.ccianet.org/index.php3
Fu, Ren-Li
news:6c099e00.0309...@posting.google.com...
Oh, another of jb's posts.
jb, do I really have to pull the message off google where tweet posted
essay/fu...?
-frl
Michael Alford
me killfiled, could someone else repost this again, please?
Thanks,
Michael
In article <3f71d8c1....@news.cis.dfn.de>, jazze...@coolmail.com (-)
wrote:
-
Attention anonymous lurkers: pls forward to fr...@rogers.com .
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> jb, do I really have to pull the message off google where
> tweet posted essay/fu...?
No, you don't "have to" do anything. You're a Go Player,
don't you remember? Besides, you have me "killfiled" so you
can't read any of my posts. Fortunately, though, there are some
lurkers who will forward my posts to you in email, and then there
is the "reposting phenomena" engendered by use of "killfiles" so
that this newsgroup gets even messier than before. Your fault...
- regards
- jb
----------------------------------------------------------
Q. Why don't bunnies make noise when they have sex?
A. Because they have cotton balls.
----------------------------------------------------------
T Mark Hall
writes
>
<Snip>
Unfortunately, one of the reactions to posting a stream of obscenities
like that would be the conspiracy theory that it was created to blacken
the name of a critic. A second reaction would be that it must be true
because Tweet posted it, from those with the one true faith.
My own reaction is that it is fairly pathetic and demeaning to all
concerned and could justify a complaint to the ISP from which it was
posted, for placing it in an unmoderated Newsgroup.
Please do not do it again.
Best wishes.
--
T Mark Hall
http://www.gogod.demon.co.uk
Bantari
> Nobody has yet clarified what actually constitutes advertising yet,
> and when they do it would be nice if they could clarify the why to.
This has been discussed over and over in the past. From what I
remember, the final word was that advertising was equivalent to "drawing
attention to". I did not have time to find the exact quote among the
many many articles dealing with the problem, but I am sure somebody will
provide it if there is enough interest.
So... In this sense, anything that can draw attention to NNGS, KGS
or another server while on IGS is considered "advertising" and thus
prohibited. Clear enough policy.
As far as I am concerned, that's that.
--
__________________________________
- Bantari
kapr...@yahoo.com
Michael Alford
I've already defied you to provide such a URL. You can't do it, it
doesn't exist. For those that want to check on their own:
http://panda-igs.joyjoy.net/English/essays.html
_Nothing_ there even mentions you.
Cheers,
Michael
-
T Mark Hall <tm...@gogod.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Unfortunately, one of the reactions to posting a stream of obscenities
> like that would be the conspiracy theory that it was created to blacken
> the name of a critic. A second reaction would be that it must be true
> because Tweet posted it, from those with the one true faith.
A third reaction would be to have no reactions but to confront the
"alleged" source `XSL' "Xiangshang Li (xl...@rs1.tcs.tulane.edu)"
or wherever his email address presently is. Unfortunately, the
approach of having no such reactions was lost to England when
Sherlock Holmes died, and hasn't been revived since.
> My own reaction is that it is fairly pathetic and demeaning to all
> concerned and could justify a complaint to the ISP from which
> it was posted, for placing it in an unmoderated Newsgroup.
Arguably it was NNGS which -fosters- such language since
they took pride in not censoring themselves. KGS has not been
making those sorts of mistakes, evidently, because KGS has been
enforcing their "banning policy" for -egregious- violations. The
sense and meaning of such words from a foreign speaker might not
carry with it any extraordinary "weighty implications" as it does for
native English speakers. Note that the IGS Admins decided not to
tolerate abusive tells of such language on their Go Server, and
also note that "T.Mark Hall" did not rush to the -defense- of IGS
Admins during various "debates" on this newsgroup concerning
"acceptable use." Note also that "T.Mark Hall" has not upbraided
his compatriot Mr.Ian.Davis, for suggesting that "acceptable use"
be contravened. The purpose of Tweet's posting was to provide
a "context" whereby -THIS- dialogue might transpire. Let's see
whether "T.Mark Hall" can walk the talk, not merely yak the jack.
> Please do not do it again.
Or else "T.Mark Hall" will do what? Enforce -network- banning?
- regards
- jb
------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the difference between Beer Nuts and Deer Nuts?
Beer Nuts are $1, and Deer Nuts are always under a buck.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Bantari
says...
> For those of you that have jb killfiled, this is for you. For those that have
> me killfiled, could someone else repost this again, please?
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
Those who have both of you killfiled obviously do not want to read
what you two write. You should respect that and do not try to
circumvent a personal decision of those people in such way.
If somebody reposts what you write out of their own accord, it is
fine. But specifically asking for it so that the people who do not want
to read you are forced to is rude and intolerant.
No offense intended. Just constructive criticism.
ian
> If you had been reading for long, you would know how much like
> a breath of fresh air it is to have Big Duck posting here.
>
> Richard
Why don't you make your own character Richard?
I'm sure Bid Duck would appreciate it if Wiley Mr Skunk started posting
Patrick Bridges
> I've already defied you to provide such a URL. You can't do it, it
> doesn't exist. For those that want to check on their own:
>
> http://panda-igs.joyjoy.net/English/essays.html
>
> _Nothing_ there even mentions you.
Though the "foul.html" attack page may have been since removed, it
*was* posted and *was* offensive. Don't try to pretend that it didn't
exist. It makes you look dishonest and dissembling. Oh wait, that's
right...
Tweedie
>ma...@spiritone.com (Michael Alford) writes:
>> I've already defied you to provide such a URL. You can't do it, it
>> doesn't exist. For those that want to check on their own:
>>
>> http://panda-igs.joyjoy.net/English/essays.html
>>
>> _Nothing_ there even mentions you.
>Though the "foul.html" attack page may have been since removed, it
>*was* posted and *was* offensive. Don't try to pretend that it didn't
>exist. It makes you look dishonest and dissembling. Oh wait, that's
>right...
1) This URL (foul.html) never said 'ukau' was Fu, and tweet never
said 'ukau' was Fu, Ren-Li
2) Fu said the URL in question was in the essays directory,
(Fu: jb, do I really have to pull the message off google where
tweet posted essay/fu...?)
and no URL has been removed from the essay directory.
foul.html was never in the essay directory. Do your homework.
But it doesn't matter anyway, because of '1)' stated above.
, ,
/( )\
\ \_/ / , /\ ,
/_ _\ /| || |\
| \> </ | |\_||_/|
(_ ^ _) \____/
/`\|IIIII|/`\ _\/_
\ \_____/ / ()
/\ )=( /\ ()
jgs / `-.\=/.-' \ ()
mullens
I thought about this, but Big Duck does it so well, and postings from
Wiley Mr Skunk too would be surreal. I feel that it may only be a matter
of time before we hear again from Slow Turtle or WMS comes on the scene.
Tweet must be proud that Bid Duck is such a star here.
Patrick Bridges
> Patrick Bridges <bri...@cs.unm.edu> writes:
>
> 1) This URL (foul.html) never said 'ukau' was Fu, and tweet never
> said 'ukau' was Fu, Ren-Li
Ah, my mistake. I was confusing insulting removed IGS URLs. How about:
http://igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/fu.html which has also since been
removed, and pretty clearly was intended to insult FRL's wife if
nothing else.
Tweedie
>Tweedie <tw...@xunil.fi> writes:
>Ah, my mistake. I was confusing insulting removed IGS URLs. How about:
>http://igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/fu.html which has also since been
>removed, and pretty clearly was intended to insult FRL's wife if
>nothing else.
Actually this URL is still there, if you know where to look. However,
if you had examinded it very carefully, it ould beenhave clear this was
NOT FRL's wife. Additionally, FRL' claimed it 'slammed' HIM, and from his
postings he never actually saw this URL, but it doesn't matter. Also
this URL predates the flames and is at least several years old. It also
changed URLs several times.
mullens
From what I read, it seems that IGS allows freedom of association, but has
stooges that monitor conversations and T shirt designs !
See what Gilbert Shelton has to say on this in this Classic (IMO) Freak Bros
cartoon:- http://80.4.116.219/fbi.jpeg - but as told in the cartoon, it's
no laughing matter.
Fu, Ren-Li
Tweet personally forwarded a post by jb to my e-mail, but you have the
audacity to repost it to RGG. For those of you that didn't killfile malf
now, this is the call to do so.
-frl
"Michael Alford" <ma...@spiritone.com> wrote in message
news:bkss1...@enews1.newsguy.com...
Tweedie
>You're worse that tweet.
>Tweet personally forwarded a post by jb to my e-mail, but you have the
>audacity to repost it to RGG. For those of you that didn't killfile malf
>now, this is the call to do so.
If you are talking about "I did my homework, malf, here are the results",
then you are lying. I didn't forward anything to you by email today.
Fu, Ren-Li
> >
> >jb, do I really have to pull the message off google where tweet posted
> >essay/fu...?
> >
>
> doesn't exist. For those that want to check on their own:
>
> http://panda-igs.joyjoy.net/English/essays.html
>
> _Nothing_ there even mentions you.
You're right. It was taken down because it was such an obvious abuse of
power to smear my name. I was a very visible character on IGS. I was "Kungfu
4k* pro". Back when I was kungfu 7k* pro I was already attracting attention.
I left a deep impression on players like J, C and L because of my good
attitude, interesting plays, etc. I also attracted the attention of stronger
players who helped me because I was indeed a good an honest person who was
truly open to learning what they had to teach.
This is kind of like kicking a go teacher off your system and then realizing
how idiotic it makes you look. I played over 2,000 games on IGS over more
than 3 years. To come out now and post an essay about how I was this
terrible person and this live stone group remover is ludicrous. So, it was
removed.
But if you think he didn't post such an article, I would be pleased to
repost the message where he posted such an URL.
The problem is the personal attacks and lies that get posted about people
who simply state their honest opinion. I am one such person. Tweet posted an
essay about me on his website. Why? I have such a good record on
IGS...Consider that tweet gets attacked for his position. I may also have
been attacked because I had a good position on IGS as a strong and honest
player. Same logic, and it definately applies... an escaper would love to
defame a person like me.
Come on malf, we played a game on IGS a few years ago and you were so
friendly. So was I, remember?
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
news:m2ad8tk...@saguaro.cs.unm.edu...
> ma...@spiritone.com (Michael Alford) writes:
>
> > I've already defied you to provide such a URL. You can't do it,
it
> > doesn't exist. For those that want to check on their own:
> >
> > http://panda-igs.joyjoy.net/English/essays.html
> >
> > _Nothing_ there even mentions you.
>
> Though the "foul.html" attack page may have been since removed, it
> *was* posted and *was* offensive. Don't try to pretend that it didn't
> exist. It makes you look dishonest and dissembling. Oh wait, that's
> right...
foul.html wasn't about me, I was referring to fu.html.
-frl
Tweedie
>The problem is the personal attacks and lies that get posted about people
>who simply state their honest opinion. I am one such person. Tweet posted an
>essay about me on his website.
tweet doesn't have a website, but if you are thinking about IGS, there
was never an 'essay' about you there, and I bet noone has ever seen an
'essay' about you at the IGS website. What did this 'essay say, and who
wrote it? What was the URL?
Has any reader or lucker ever here seen an 'essay' about Fu, Ren-Li at
at the IGS website?
Big Duck
> "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> writes:
>
>
>
> Has any reader or lucker ever here seen an 'essay' about Fu, Ren-Li at
> at the IGS website?
>
Checking in tweet!
I have not seen an essay about FRL. I don't think he rates an essay at this
point. Essays are not for the maesly folks that remove dead stones and
swear while on line.
Essays are reserved for those whose actions offline are so reprehensible
that they must be forever etched into the annals of IGS as roaches and rats.
Certainly, Mr. Keith A had risen to such a position. Also the BGA and NNGS
authors rose to such a level also,
I would like to take a moment to nominate some other anti-IGS folks for who
merit their own special essay on the IGS webpage (FRL is definitely not on
the short list of enemies that merit this)
My list is
1. Honey Pot admin for his criticism of IGS artwork
2. Bantari for being a swizzle stick
3. Bridges - for not learning his lessons
4. T. Mark Hall for his bad attitude and attire
5. Charles Matthews for criticizing jb
6. All other English players in aggregate for their being British
I agree with you tweet. I have never seen an essay about FRL. I know, you
know, and everyone else here know that he does not even come close to
challenging the fearless leadership paradigm enough to merit the
considerable effort required to writ an essay
Keep up the good work. I would like to personally thank you for your
efforts and hard work in bringing go to the pure of heart and keeping the
bad influences off of IGS.
Your very good friend,
Big Duck
PS I hate slow turtle and Wily Mr. Skunk too!
Fu, Ren-Li
news:Nkrcb.14042$cK5....@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
>
Big Duck;
Consider that I am unique in that I can't be tied down as a KGS supporter, I
left IGS of my own volition after playing over 2,000 games over 3 years,
that I actually like IGS, and that I have been obviously unfairly attacked.
Now consider that it might be better to leave *this* little rabbit alone, to
fend for himself. Rabbits don't like to be too visible you know. They get
attacked by hawks.
> Essays are reserved for those whose actions offline are so reprehensible
> that they must be forever etched into the annals of IGS as roaches and
rats.
Mine was removed.. a few people saw it. If anyone has an archive of it
please forward it to me.
-frl
Big Duck
You are not a threat to IGS. I will tell you why. You are focused on you!
Bridges , swizzle stick, Keith A. , they were focused on the policies of IGS
that they felt were inconsistent. This is the greater threat to fearless
leadership.
Steve F had a following in his own right, and needed / still needs to be
crushed.
There were the saltmans, and the osman's and the cornels. They all simply
wanted their connection back and their own personal status as an IGS user
restored. Fearless leaders will almost always accomodate this, because
while these folks bluster and insult and rant and rave, it is really all
about them and when they get what they want they melt away and are never
heard from again.
However, the likes of bridges, and swizzle stick, they never melt away.
They are banned because they are a threat. They are the true rats and
roaches. They are the ones that must be exterminated.
You seem to simply want some justice done for your own personal name.
You may one day be let back into the fold, but you will have to accept that
you will never have your arguments acknowledged.
You are not a threat to the cause of fearless leadership. You have already
been minimized by your on-line actions.
Sorry, but it would appear that you could even log on and register right now
and probably get a game on IGS. That would serve the cause of fearless
leadership because it would show you to be a double minded man, really only
interested in his own connection.
You must try much harder to make the real enemies list.
Big Duck
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:yIrcb.111811$DZ.4...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
Patrick Bridges
> "Patrick Bridges" <bri...@cs.unm.edu> wrote in message
>
> foul.html wasn't about me, I was referring to fu.html.
Yes, you're right. I got the rotating insult pages confused.
Tweedie
>Mine was removed.. a few people saw it. If anyone has an archive of it
>please forward it to me.
Well, don't hold your breath, because noone saw an 'essay' about you
at the IGS website. So far you characterized this mysterious essay
as abusive when you haven't even seen it. Also you claimed I forwarded
something by jb to you today, which I did not do. Please post this
email I supposedly emailed you today, with the complete mail headers.
Big Duck
There are sinners and there are heritics.
Those that will not acknowledge that NNGS are criminals and thieves they
are heritics. Those that swear on line, fill in their eyes, break teaching
agreements, remove live stones, - they are only sinners.
Fearless leaders are not worried about the sinners. They are worried about
the heritics
Big Duck
"Big Duck" <hit...@itsallmine.com> wrote in message
news:7Vrcb.14048$cK5....@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
Chris Lawrence
> tweet doesn't have a website, but if you are thinking about IGS, there
I was always told to watch out for people who refer to themselves in the
third person because they have an over-inflated view of themselves. The
kind of thing which would be backed up by a large ASCII signature.
> Has any reader or lucker ever here seen an 'essay' about Fu, Ren-Li at
> at the IGS website?
No, just the essay about his wife who you called an old hag.
--
Chris
Chris Lawrence
> as abusive when you haven't even seen it. Also you claimed I forwarded
> something by jb to you today, which I did not do. Please post this
> email I supposedly emailed you today, with the complete mail headers.
No he didn't. You introduced the "today" part. Hope this helps.
--
Chris
Tweedie
People here say everything they possibly can, and even the scholarly
essay about Go in Ancient China was not immune to attack.
Okay, I'll take about the sig file since even this has come up.
The 'tweet' was given to me by Mike Dobbins, who sometimes posts
to this news group, to use as a joke. The little devil was given
to me by another reader here to use as a joke, in response to an
article about geek having the glow of righteousness about him,
while tweet was the tool of Satan; this poster also posted this
as a joke. I responded in kind with just the little devil and have
used it ever since. I sometimes use the 3rd person to minic the
wording by a flamer. This was suggested by another rec.games.go
reader. This sig file attack seems very silly, and a personal attack
which you advocated against doing
I read Fu's original post as his wife being more than 200 years old.
I wasn't the only one with that interpretation, and no, not malf or
jb.
Chris Lawrence
> Okay, I'll take about the sig file since even this has come up.
Merely an observation about people's personalities. Please stop being
paranoid. It was in no way an "attack".
> I read Fu's original post as his wife being more than 200 years old.
> I wasn't the only one with that interpretation, and no, not malf or
> jb.
Never mind other people, are you so insecure you have to drag unknown
third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
And now you make out it was all a bit of an innocent jibe really and
seem almost surprised that it could ever possibly be taken the wrong
way.
Well really. Please. Stop taking the piss out of people with more than
two neurons to rub together. You might have your mouthpiece idiots
jumping up and down parroting your party line but it's so easy to see
exactly what you're doing. I'm afraid your's and malf's wide-eyed
innocent "what did I do?!" look is so transparent that it's almost
embarrassing to see. As for Jeff's brainless drooling, that got past
embarrassing a long time ago.
I really really really don't understand why you would want to market IGS
on the back of your antics here. Is it not worth so much more than your
petty games in this group?
[Ctrl-K 21 times]
Sigh. Can you at least use a sig-separator? That is, put a "dash dash
space" on a line by itself above it, like mine below. Then your lovely
artwork doesn't have to be manually removed every time someone responds
to you.
--
Chris
Tweedie
>third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
>hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
This 'essay' again. What is this 'link to an essay'? For far noone
has been able to produce this 'essay'.
>You might have your mouthpiece idiots jumping up and down
>parroting your party line
You must be one of these people referred to by Lois:
Lois to tweet:
"You have received criticism from idiots as long as you have had IGS.
These rude comments are from immature, jealous people. Don't let their
remarks bother you! Any accomplished person will have the attacks you
are experiencing, please ignore them and think instead of those of us
that appreciate and enjoy what you have given to those of us that admire
you."
-
Considering the source, I'd say that is a compliment.
> Tweet personally forwarded a post by jb to my e-mail, but you have
> the audacity to repost it to RGG. For those of you that didn't killfile
> malf now, this is the call to do so.
Mr. "Fu, Ren-Li" is -demonstrably- a stupid liar. Furthermore, he
proceeded to repost that reposting, even -trumping- malf's "audacity."
Additionally, the garbling of links, in "Fu, Ren-Li's" -version- of the
reposting of the reposting, amounted to a high noise-to-signal ratio.
Is it now the case that "Fu, Ren-Li" is the "best product" from KGS?
I have a minor copyright interest in what I publish to the newsgroup.
When "Fu, Ren-Li" -garbages- it by means of his idiot newsreader,
albeit that he has claimed -profusely- to keep me safely ensconced
in a "killfile", I take that to be copyright violation and infringement.
"Fu, Ren-Li" produces garbage. His trail of evidence here is clear.
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the fluid capacity of Monica Lewinsky's mouth?
One U.S. leader.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> Chris Lawrence <ne...@holosys.co.uk> writes:
>> third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
>> hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
Tweedie <tw...@xunil.fi> wrote:
> This 'essay' again. What is this 'link to an essay'? For far noone
> has been able to produce this 'essay'.
I don't understand what this is about. Hadn't "Fu, Ren-Li" himself
mentioned that the alleged "link" was broken?
From: Fu, Ren-Li (fr...@rogers.com)
Subject: Re: Opium Smoker with A Cat ( Historic Chinatown Photos )
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Date: 2003-08-30 06:07:48 PST
[ ... ]
"6. Page not found on above address. You might want to check
to see if you uploaded it correctly."
- regards
- jb
----------------------------------------------------------------
What's the difference between a porcupine and BMW?
A porcupine has the pricks on the outside.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Lawrence
> >third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
> >hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
>
> This 'essay' again. What is this 'link to an essay'? For far noone
> has been able to produce this 'essay'.
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
The page no longer exists but on the 29th August it did. It contained a
picture and a short story about the Hag of Go. You know exactly which
page I'm talking about of course. If you want to pretend to be naive
that's fine but please don't pretend to be stupid as well.
> You must be one of these people referred to by Lois:
There we go. Out of context, meaningless third-party opinion, right on
cue. Can you do anything for yourself? I expect Jeff's head will soon
be banging on the keyboard in overtime and Malf will be preparing his
next sermon.
--
Chris
Tweedie
>The page no longer exists but on the 29th August it did. It contained a
>picture and a short story about the Hag of Go. You know exactly which
>page I'm talking about of course. If you want to pretend to be naive
>that's fine but please don't pretend to be stupid as well.
No, I don't know what you are talking about when you say it contained
short story about the Hag of Go. What did this story say? Who else saw
this short story about the Hag of Go? And whom are you referring to
when you say short story about the Hag of Go, Fu's wife? You are of course
lying, because this short story never existed.
Fu, Ren-Li
news:Pine.WNT.4.56.03...@holodeck3.holosys.wlan...
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Tweedie wrote:
>
> > >third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
> > >hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
> >
> > This 'essay' again. What is this 'link to an essay'? For far noone
> > has been able to produce this 'essay'.
>
>
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
>
> The page no longer exists but on the 29th August it did. It contained a
> picture and a short story about the Hag of Go. You know exactly which
> page I'm talking about of course. If you want to pretend to be naive
> that's fine but please don't pretend to be stupid as well.
Can you or anyone forward a copy to me? I lost mine. Thanks.
-frl
Chris Lawrence
> No, I don't know what you are talking about when you say it contained
> short story about the Hag of Go. What did this story say? Who else saw
It contained a story and a picture about 'the Hag of Go'. Feel free to
resurrect fu.html as it was on August 29th. Or continue to act stupid,
I could care less which.
> this short story about the Hag of Go? And whom are you referring to
> when you say short story about the Hag of Go, Fu's wife? You are of course
You were referring to Fu's wife when you posted the link. The clue was
the way Fu said "My wife says..." and you replied "She must be...". Or
perhaps you weren't referring to Fu's wife at all and it's all a big
misunderstanding based on your reply being to Fu, referring to his wife
as a hag and posting a link to a file about the Hag of Go which was
called fu.html. I can see how that could be ambiguous.
> lying, because this short story never existed.
It most certainly did. When you posted this article
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
I clicked on the link and read the story and, like all the other
vitriol-laden essays, I thought it said far more about you than it did
about anything else.
--
Chris
Tweedie
>It contained a story and a picture about 'the Hag of Go'. Feel free to
>resurrect fu.html as it was on August 29th. Or continue to act stupid,
>I could care less which.
I'll ask again, what did this story say?
So far, you are the only one claiming there was a story.
>> lying, because this short story never existed.
>It most certainly did. When you posted this article
>http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
Last time, what did this story say, who wrote it, and
has anyone else seen this story about the Hag of Go in
the URL in question?
>I clicked on the link and read the story and, like all the other
>vitriol-laden essays, I thought it said far more about you than it did
>about anything else.
This lie of yours says more about you.
Fu, Ren-Li
>
> If you are talking about "I did my homework, malf, here are the results",
> then you are lying. I didn't forward anything to you by email today.
>
But you DID forward to me a post by jb which called me stupid, etc. even
though I made it VERY public that I killfiled him just so such a thing
wouldn't happen. You did that deliberately to piss me off. You're not a very
nice person, actually, Mr. Okada, regardless of your skill or love or
efforts in go.
I'm still waiting for my apology. Who do you think you are to do such a
thing?
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> "Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> writes:
>
> >This (and the other accusations you make) doesen't sound like the man I
and
> >hundreds of others know. Personally, this man has been of more value to
me
>
> Well, it is not my name that is in the FBI files for ID Theft.
Are you sure?
What if I did a search for Mr. Okada? Are you sure nothing would come up?
Let's phrase this as a sort of russian roulette. What if I already did such
a search and what if I had evidence to post here? Can you be so certain that
you wouldn't be called immediately on it?
You're a real moron for posting that kind of accusation tweet. And
furthermore, I don't know much about "other people" except how they act. The
man in question acts a lot nicer than you do.
> malf:
> >>As for your claim that you've been
> >> slimed on an IGS web page, I defy you to provide the url.
>
> Fu:
> >Tweet posted it.
>
>
> There has never been an igs web page about you, and Tweet never
> posted it.
This is a lie, you posted the following message (click to view the message
he posted):
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
Why do you lie like this tweedie? You made an igs web page about me and you
said some pretty bad things about my wife.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
> Patrick Bridges <bri...@cs.unm.edu> writes:
>
> >Tweedie <tw...@xunil.fi> writes:
>
> >Ah, my mistake. I was confusing insulting removed IGS URLs. How about:
> >http://igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/fu.html which has also since been
> >removed, and pretty clearly was intended to insult FRL's wife if
> >nothing else.
>
> Actually this URL is still there, if you know where to look. However,
> if you had examinded it very carefully, it ould beenhave clear this was
> NOT FRL's wife. Additionally, FRL' claimed it 'slammed' HIM, and from his
> postings he never actually saw this URL, but it doesn't matter. Also
> this URL predates the flames and is at least several years old. It also
> changed URLs several times.
Oh, sure, you can put a disclaimer anywhere you want, however, I would
really like a copy of this letter or to find out it's current address.
It's so obvious the letter IS about my wife, and sorry but the name of the
page is fu.html, I can hardly be blamed for assuming it has something to do
about me or my wife.
And if you quoted my mail, then it is, in essence, about me and/or my wife.
-frl
Fu, Ren-Li
>
> Well, don't hold your breath, because noone saw an 'essay' about you
> at the IGS website. So far you characterized this mysterious essay
> as abusive when you haven't even seen it.
Where is it?
> Also you claimed I forwarded
> something by jb to you today, which I did not do. Please post this
> email I supposedly emailed you today, with the complete mail headers.
No I did not claim you forwarded something by jb to me today but you DID
forward a post from him to me and you have not yet apologized for doing so.
It's quite obvious how rude it was for you to do that, especially since JB
decided to call me stupid, etc, in the letter. I really do expect and
deserve an apology from you.
-frl
ian
> On 24 Sep 2003 10:35:33 -0700 ian (ian....@durge.org) says...
> > Nobody has yet clarified what actually constitutes advertising yet,
> > and when they do it would be nice if they could clarify the why to.
>
> So... In this sense, anything that can draw attention to NNGS, KGS
> or another server while on IGS is considered "advertising" and thus
> prohibited. Clear enough policy.
>
> As far as I am concerned, that's that.
What i'm actually after is what do they define as advertising (which
obviously is drawing attention to).
Obviously shouting "let's go and use KGS" could be construed as
advertising
but is a personal remark to a friend such as "Have you ever tried
using LGS?" the same thing?
So is there a distinction between public and private advertising.
What is perhaps more on my mind is this: can one actually mention
another server without in some way advertising it? Fundamentally
shouldn't the answer to this question be no. Therefore if Tweet
through monitoring the system (whether by explicit grep or through
feedback) heres of advertising he has to draw a line in the sands of
discipline. This begs the question what he disciplines for to help the
spread of go across the world.
-
Lurker alert: "killfiler" fr...@rogers.com needs your assistance.
> "Tweedie" <tw...@xunil.fi> wrote:
>> If you are talking about "I did my homework, malf, here are the results",
>> then you are lying. I didn't forward anything to you by email today.
"If ... "
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> But you DID forward to me a post by jb which called me stupid, etc.
> even though I made it VERY public that I killfiled him just so such
> a thing wouldn't happen. You did that deliberately to piss me off.
> You're not a very nice person, actually, Mr. Okada, regardless of
> your skill or love or efforts in go.
Winning is not a very nice experience for the loser.
> I'm still waiting for my apology. Who do you think you are to do
> such a thing?
From: ro...@telus.net (ro...@telus.net)
Subject: Re: It was someone else. I was using xinjia, not kungfu
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Date: 2003-08-30 10:47:51 PST
stfu
Post a follow-up to this message
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------
Why does Mike Tyson cry during sex?
Mace will do that to you.
--------------------------------------------------------
-
"Fu, Ren-Li" <fr...@rogers.com> wrote:
> ... especially since JB decided to call me stupid, etc, in the letter.
Now you're "double stupid, etc., in the letter."
- regards
- jb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22stfu%22+group:rec.games.go&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=d&selm=3f50e3cd.2697616%40news.telus.net&rnum=2
From: ro...@telus.net (ro...@telus.net)
Subject: Re: It was someone else. I was using xinjia, not kungfu
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Date: 2003-08-30 10:47:51 PST
stfu
Post a follow-up to this message
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ian
> >audacity to repost it to RGG. For those of you that didn't killfile malf
> >now, this is the call to do so.
>
>
>
>
> then you are lying. I didn't forward anything to you by email today.
>
think he is? You did forward an abusive email to FRL froma person he
killfiled. You offered no defence as to why you felt it was necessary
to abuse FRL in this manner. I am still waiting for a public apology
in this regard. There can be no excuse for sending abuse to the inbox
and don't pretend otherwise.
ian
> ian wrote:
> >
> > mullens <mullens@_snip_ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > If you had been reading for long, you would know how much like
> > > a breath of fresh air it is to have Big Duck posting here.
> > >
> > > Richard
> >
> > Why don't you make your own character Richard?
> > I'm sure Bid Duck would appreciate it if Wiley Mr Skunk started posting
>
> I thought about this, but Big Duck does it so well, and postings from
> Wiley Mr Skunk too would be surreal. I feel that it may only be a matter
> of time before we hear again from Slow Turtle or WMS comes on the scene.
>
> Tweet must be proud that Big Duck is such a star here.
Actually sometimes I think most of the inhabitants of rgg are actually
the same person spending all day flaming themselves from several
different ip addresses. The more I think about it the less far fetched
it actually sounds.
Fu, Ren-Li
> This 'essay' again. What is this 'link to an essay'? For far noone
> has been able to produce this 'essay'.
>
And yet in a message you JUST posted, you claim it's still on the webpage
"if you know where to look". As soon as google archives this post I will
come back and post the link with time and date so everyone can catch you in
yet another lie. You posted a link, yet you ask 'what link'? You say "if you
know where to look" and yet you say no one has been able to produce it.
Stop lying and apologize. My wife is not an old hag, and what she said was
actually true! This time I am not going to let you get away with your
nefarious deeds. I want a copy of that letter you posted to a public
website, and we all know who it's about so you can deny it all you want,
just like you deny the whining wino letter is about that guy (forget his
name) all the time.
-frl
ian
>
> > tweet doesn't have a website, but if you are thinking about IGS, there
>
> I was always told to watch out for people who refer to themselves in the
> third person because they have an over-inflated view of themselves. The
> kind of thing which would be backed up by a large ASCII signature.
>
5 lines needed shooting. I still view this as an entirely rational and
proportional measure .
-
ian....@durge.org (ian) wrote:
> When I was a student it was agreed that anyone with a sig
> longer then 5 lines needed shooting. I still view this as an
> entirely rational and proportional measure .
On -this- newsgroup, you are -still- a student. :-)
"ian" <ian....@durge.org> wrote:
> Actually sometimes I think most of the inhabitants of rgg
> are actually the same person spending all day flaming themselves
> from several different ip addresses. The more I think about it the
> less far fetched it actually sounds.
Well, there's the curious "Bob Newell" and "ChipsChap"
connection which has not (yet) been much discussed.
"ian" <ian....@durge.org> wrote:
> What is perhaps more on my mind is this: can one actually
> mention another server without in some way advertising it?
If you're trying to "push the envelope", you're probably wrong.
"ian" <ian....@durge.org> wrote:
> You did forward an abusive email to FRL froma person he killfiled.
The email was factual. It would be abuse if `frl' -never- got
the proper amount of -professional- attention via group therapy.
Fu, Ren-Li
> Chris Lawrence <ne...@holosys.co.uk> writes:
>
> No, I don't know what you are talking about when you say it contained
> short story about the Hag of Go. What did this story say? Who else saw
> this short story about the Hag of Go? And whom are you referring to
> when you say short story about the Hag of Go, Fu's wife? You are of course
> lying, because this short story never existed.
You dont know what he is talking about when you say it contained a short
story? Didn't you post this though:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
Didn't you say in a VERY recent message (a link will be provided as soon as
google archives these posts) that the fu.html essay is "still there if you
know where to look"?
1.
> You are of course
> lying, because this short story never existed.
2. "still there if you know where to look"
What's still there tweet? your lie?
I demand someone send me a copy of this letter because I am going to find
out if it is acceptable for an IGS administrator to use pandanet webspace to
post crap like this.
-frl
Chris Lawrence
> >http://www.google.com/groups?selm=bio2cu%242u2%241%40yggdrasil.utfors.se&output=gplain
>
> Last time, what did this story say, who wrote it, and
> has anyone else seen this story about the Hag of Go in
> the URL in question?
I don't remember the exact wording and the link no longer works. It was
a black screen with something about the Hag of Go and an animated gif of
lightning in the top right corner. I clicked on the link you provided
to get to it. The main version of it appears to normally reside at
http://igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/gohag.html
but strangely that's no longer present either. Google's cache certainly
knows about it but because it's image based it does not render anything
apart from the animated lightning
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/gohag.html
The cached source for the page contains the following information
<TITLE>The Go Hag</TITLE>
<META NAME="keywords" CONTENT="IGS, Panda, history, The Hag of Go,
igo, go, baduk, weichi, game">
as well as gohag image references
<TD><IMG SRC="images/gohag1_01.jpg" WIDTH="84" HEIGHT="131" BORDER="0"></TD>
<TD><IMG SRC="images/gohag1_02.jpg" WIDTH="84" HEIGHT="131" BORDER="0"></TD>
<TD><IMG SRC="images/gohag1_03.jpg" WIDTH="84" HEIGHT="131" BORDER="0"></TD>
... etc
so the page quite clearly existed no matter how much you wriggle and
feign ignorance now.
> >I clicked on the link and read the story and, like all the other
> >vitriol-laden essays, I thought it said far more about you than it did
> >about anything else.
>
> This lie of yours says more about you.
Nope, no lie. You posted the link, that is fact, the post is there on
Google. There is a page about 'The Hag of Go' which has been pulled,
that is also fact. My guess is that you either renamed or copied the
html file or created a symbolic link to it and that it was available for
a short time only.
I have no idea what your point is to all this. It might be best if you
stopped using IGS webspace for your own personal agenda.
--
Chris
Steve Fawthrop
"Chris Lawrence" <ne...@holosys.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.WNT.4.56.03...@holodeck3.holosys.wlan...
>
> third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
> hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
> And now you make out it was all a bit of an innocent jibe really and
> seem almost surprised that it could ever possibly be taken the wrong
> way.
>
Ironic, isn't it. A couple of years ago I made "an innocent jibe" at tweet
by faking a post from him which clearly was not from him as any reader of
this newsgroup was fully aware. But he made a big fuss over it and his
lackeys still try to bring it up whenever they want to attack me. Moreover,
my post was very easily seen to be a fake because of the header information,
whereas his was not so easily checked. Seems like tweet has a double
standard -- he can make fun of and insult people all he wants, but when
someone does it to him he complains.
-
> Tweedie wrote:
>> Last time, what did this story say, who wrote it, and
>> has anyone else seen this story about the Hag of Go in
>> the URL in question?
Chris Lawrence <ne...@holosys.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't remember the exact wording and the link no longer works. It was
> a black screen with something about the Hag of Go and an animated gif
> of lightning in the top right corner. I clicked on the link you provided
> to get to it. The main version of it appears to normally reside at
>
> http://igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/gohag.html
>
> but strangely that's no longer present either. Google's cache certainly
> knows about it but because it's image based it does not render anything
> apart from the animated lightning
>
> http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:igs.joyjoy.net/English/essay/gohag.html
>
> [ ... ]
>
> so the page quite clearly existed no matter how much you wriggle and
> feign ignorance now.
Tweet is not deying that the page exists. He has asked for which
page(s) (of -many- possible pages) are being referenced. Tweet is
denying that there was -STORY- material. The "google" cache would
have preserved -text- had there been any of it. Yet there was no text.
>>> I clicked on the link and read the story and, like all the other
>>> vitriol-laden essays, I thought it said far more about you than
>>> it did about anything else.
>> The lie of yours says more about you.
> Nope, no lie. You posted the link, that is fact, the post is there on
> Google. There is a page about 'The Hag of Go' which has been pulled,
> that is also fact. My guess is that you either renamed or copied the
> html file or created a symbolic link to it and that it was available for
> a short time only.
>
> I have no idea what your point is to all this. It might be best if you
> stopped using IGS webspace for your own personal agenda.
Yep, yes lie. There was the assertion of reading a story. Yet
the cached page you had located displays no story. So the claim
of a story's existence was the lie. Deciphered for English speakers.
The point to all of this is analogous to the psychology experiment
where it is demonstrated to the class that they are -not- observing
the facts of what is -actually- occurring. Should have been easy,
with everything transparently referenced, but in this case the Brits
were involved.
- regards
- jb
-------------------------------------------------
What is a Yankee?
The same as a quickie, but a guy can do it alone.
-------------------------------------------------
Charles Matthews
> A couple of years ago I made "an innocent jibe" at tweet
> by faking a post from him which clearly was not from him as any reader of
> this newsgroup was fully aware. But he made a big fuss over it and his
> lackeys still try to bring it up whenever they want to attack me.
Is any of this helpful? No. The way servers are run is none of my
business; but I consider the use made of this ng to be subject of fair
comment from its users.. That was about as obviously stupid as the tribal
us-and-them stuff.
Charles
-
>> third parties in to support your stance? You called Fu's wife an old
>> hag and you posted a link to an essay called fu.html underneath it.
>> And now you make out it was all a bit of an innocent jibe really and
>> seem almost surprised that it could ever possibly be taken the wrong
>> way.
"Steve Fawthrop" <some...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Ironic, isn't it. A couple of years ago I made "an innocent jibe" at
> tweet by faking a post from him which clearly was not from him as
> any reader of this newsgroup was fully aware. But he made a big fuss
> over it and his lackeys still try to bring it up whenever they want to
> attack me. Moreover, my post was very easily seen to be a fake
> because of the header information, whereas his was not so easily
> checked. Seems like tweet has a double standard -- he can make
> fun of and insult people all he wants, but when someone does it
> to him he complains.
Bzzzzzt! Impersonation on the USENET is a -federal- crime,
called "identity theft", and even more so when corporate email
addresses might be involved. Independent website creations are
protected speech, however. Apparently the "fake admins" at KGS
are not provided legal savvy. Tweet is not deying the existence of
URLs. He wants to know what the (commonly referenced) alleged
"essay" was all about, because there was -none- on the URL he
had created. The text was entirely that in the newsgroup posting.
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------
Why do men want to marry virgins?
They can't stand criticism.
--------------------------------------------------------
ian
> In message <bkspg4$kht$1...@yggdrasil.utfors.se>, Tweedie <tw...@xunil.fi>
> writes
> >
> <Snip>
>
> Unfortunately, one of the reactions to posting a stream of obscenities
> like that would be the conspiracy theory that it was created to blacken
> the name of a critic. A second reaction would be that it must be true
> because Tweet posted it, from those with the one true faith.
>
> My own reaction is that it is fairly pathetic and demeaning to all
> concerned and could justify a complaint to the ISP from which it was
> posted, for placing it in an unmoderated Newsgroup.
>
> Please do not do it again.
>
The handle tweet quotes seems not be one which xsl actually used on
IGS. Personally I ask myself whether such a player who had won the
NNGS tournament would actually be unleashing such a stream of
expletives. Frankly it seems rather odd behaviour not something one
would expect of a tournament winner and a educated man. I wonder if
anyone here can ever remember a tournament winner who was cursing his
opponents mother after each move was played?
gowan
Interesting. People are disciplined or banned from IGS for engaging
in behavior that is annoying to other users such as escaping, shouting
inappropriately, removing their opponent's live groups, etc., etc.
Now we have Tweet apparently posting forged pictures in the art
gallery, putting insulting stories on IGS web pages, etc. Maybe Tweet
should be banned from IGS.
Tweedie
Chris:
>so the page quite clearly existed no matter how much you wriggle and
>feign ignorance now.
jeff:
Tweet is not deying that the page exists. He has asked for which
page(s) (of -many- possible pages) are being referenced. Tweet is
denying that there was -STORY- material. The "google" cache would
have preserved -text- had there been any of it. Yet there was no text.
-----end
michael:
I just now went and looked at the picture. It's still right there
where it's been for quite a while, and there is no text attached to
it. People with a little more acumen will recall that The Hag of Go
has nothing to do with your wife. That name was coined by someone that
has met and knows Teri Shurter, and was in rebuttal to her calling
herself "The Goddess of Go". She herself responded to it here on rgg
in such a manner that she killed the thread. Take a lesson.
------end
Chris:
>I have no idea what your point is to all this. It might be best if you
>stopped using IGS webspace for your own personal agenda.
jeff wrote:
Yep, yes lie. There was the assertion of reading a story. Yet
the cached page you had located displays no story. So the claim
of a story's existence was the lie.
-----end