Killer description of "go" wanted.
BHaber
I'm applying for a one of a limited number of grants to do a local television
series about go, and I wonder if any of you have seen any really provacative
killer and concise descriptions of what go is that I could read to help me with
my application.
Any ideas greatly appreciated.
best,
Erik
It's not really a description of what go is, but I like the following
description of Edward Lasker's words very much:
"Unlike chess, the rules of go are fairly simple.
The chess master Edward Lasker--one of the first Westerners to recognize
the profundity of go--once said that while the Baroque rules of chess
could only have been created by humans, the rules of go are so elegant,
organic, and rigorously logical that if intelligent life forms exist
elsewhere in the universe, they almost certainly play go."
Erik.
--
Good judgement comes from experience;
experience comes from bad judgement.
-- Mark Twain
Oliver Richman
"Erik" <E.H.To...@student.tudelft.nl> wrote in message
news:3EB787DC...@student.tudelft.nl...
Les Waller
I really like some of the descriptions from this site:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/7/11/62356/9269
Les
Erik <E.H.To...@student.tudelft.nl> wrote in message news:<3EB787DC...@student.tudelft.nl>...
Adam Atkinson
>It's not really a description of what go is, but I like the following
>description of Edward Lasker's words very much:
>"Unlike chess, the rules of go are fairly simple.
>The chess master Edward Lasker--one of the first Westerners to recognize
>the profundity of go--once said that while the Baroque rules of chess
>could only have been created by humans, the rules of go are so elegant,
>organic, and rigorously logical that if intelligent life forms exist
>elsewhere in the universe, they almost certainly play go."
Italian games journalist Giampaolo Dossena included the following,
possibly made up, tale in one of his articles: (of course, he wrote it
in Italian)
The discipile asked his Master one day "Master, what is the greatest
game invented by man?". "Shogi", the Master replied. The disciple was
surprised. "But what about Go, Master?" The Master snapped "Go was not
invented by man. It is older than that."
(The last sentence was "C'era gia'" in Italian. I can't think of a
snappy way to say that in English just at the moment.)
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
You mean, you'll put down your rock, I'll put down my sword, and
we'll try to kill each other like civilized people?
T Mark Hall
<bha...@aol.com> writes
have with your clothes on!"
--
T Mark Hall
http://www.gogod.demon.co.uk
Emmanuel Beranger
Also : it's the last game that resists to computation (by far).
BHaber a écrit :
Erik
>
> heh try letting them let you say that on TV ^^
>
I assumed it was just for in the application for the grant. To impress
the people with the money.
Simon Goss
>The discipile asked his Master one day "Master, what is the greatest
>game invented by man?". "Shogi", the Master replied. The disciple was
>surprised. "But what about Go, Master?" The Master snapped "Go was not
>invented by man. It is older than that."
>
>(The last sentence was "C'era gia'" in Italian. I can't think of a
>snappy way to say that in English just at the moment.)
It was already there (?)
--
Simon
Adam Atkinson
Yes. But is that comprehensible in this context?
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
Please, call me Robert. It sounds so much more substantial.
(AVPP)
Charles Matthews
Something like 'non-verbal communication with minimum rules'.
Charles
George D. Phillies
On Tue, 6 May 2003, Emmanuel Beranger wrote:
> Also : it's the last game that resists to computation (by far).
Perhaps one should say the last traditional game, though I have not seen a
discussion of the Eastern forms of chess, which are more tactical
than Western chess, and hence more challenging perhaps to compute,
perhaps, say some sources. One might propose that a computational
solution of any modern board wargame has to my knowledge never been
seriously attempted.
On a different topic, does anyone have further historical data that they
would care to share about play of the antique 17x17 game, of which there
are apparently no preserved records of play?
Eric Suh
"Simon Goss" <si...@gosoft.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:YDzoLQAR...@gosoft.demon.co.uk...
Perhaps the translation that most captures the spirit of the story is "It
was there, and man discovered it."
Such irE
Juan
The writer Jorge Luis Borges wrote a poem called "El Go" try a search
on google for a translation in english. He is IMHO the best writer in
Argentina of the XXth C.
I hope this helps, Juan
Pekka Karjalainen
>The writer Jorge Luis Borges wrote a poem called "El Go" try a search
>on google for a translation in english. He is IMHO the best writer in
>Argentina of the XXth C.
Please correct my weak translation. I don't know enough
Spanish. Actually I don't know it at all, but I had a dictionary handy.
Jorge Luis Borges
EL GO
Hoy, nueve de setiembre de 1978,
* Today, on the ninth of September 1978
tuve en la palma de la mano un pequeño disco
* I held in the palm of my hand a little disc
de los trescientos sesenta y uno que se requieren
* one the three hundred and sixty one that are required
para el juego astrológico del go,
* to play the astrological game of go
ese otro ajedrez del Oriente.
* that other chess of the Orient.
Es más antiguo que la más antigua escritura
* It is older than then oldest writing
y el tablero es un mapa del universo.
* and its board is a map of the universe.
Sus variaciones negras y blancas
* Its variations in black and white
agotarán el tiempo.
* will exhaust time itself. [itself is my addition/mistake]
En él pueden perderse los hombres
* In it men can lose themselves,
como en el amor y en el día.
* like in love, or like in a day. [this is probably wrong]
Hoy nueve de setiembre de 1978,
* Today, on the ninth of September 1978
yo, que soy ignorante de tantas cosas,
* I, that am ignorant of many things,
sé que ignoro una más,
* knowing that I ignore most, [this must be wrong]
y agradezco a mis númenes
* have thanked my numinous ones [númenes wasn't in the dict]
esta revelación de un laberinto
* for this revelation of a labyrinth
que nunca será mío.
* that can never be mine.
The Spanish language is a labyrinth, too. Maybe I will find the time to
learn it properly some time. I wish...
Pekka Karjalainen, an admirer of Borges
Denis Feldmann
> In article <500c2486.03050...@posting.google.com>, Juan
> wrote:
>> The writer Jorge Luis Borges wrote a poem called "El Go" try a search
>> on google for a translation in english. He is IMHO the best writer in
>> Argentina of the XXth C.
>
> Please correct my weak translation. I don't know enough
> Spanish. Actually I don't know it at all, but I had a dictionary
> handy.
>
> Jorge Luis Borges
>
> EL GO
>
> Hoy, nueve de setiembre de 1978,
> * Today, on the ninth of September 1978
>
> tuve en la palma de la mano un pequeño disco
> * I held in the palm of my hand a little disc
>
> de los trescientos sesenta y uno que se requieren
> * one the three hundred and sixty one that are required
>
> para el juego astrológico del go,
> * to play the astrological game of go
>
> ese otro ajedrez del Oriente.
> * that other chess of the Orient.
>
> Es más antiguo que la más antigua escritura
> * It is older than then oldest writing
the, not "then" . It must be a typo, but almost a serendipitous one :-)
>
> y el tablero es un mapa del universo.
> * and its board is a map of the universe.
>
> Sus variaciones negras y blancas
> * Its variations in black and white
>
> agotarán el tiempo.
> * will exhaust time itself. [itself is my addition/mistake]
No, it is almost necessary in English, I think :-)
>
> En él pueden perderse los hombres
> * In it men can lose themselves,
>
> como en el amor y en el día.
> * like in love, or like in a day. [this is probably wrong]
Yes, but I could not find anything better. Poetic license?
>
> Hoy nueve de setiembre de 1978,
> * Today, on the ninth of September 1978
>
> yo, que soy ignorante de tantas cosas,
> * I, that am ignorant of many things,
>
> sé que ignoro una más,
> * knowing that I ignore most, [this must be wrong]
It is :) " know now that I ignore one more" is the best I could come with.
>
> y agradezco a mis númenes
> * have thanked my numinous ones [númenes wasn't in the dict]
númenes = Muses ("divine inspiration?")
>
> esta revelación de un laberinto
> * for this revelation of a labyrinth
>
> que nunca será mío.
> * that can never be mine.
I would like more "that will never be mine"
Juan
> In article <500c2486.03050...@posting.google.com>, Juan wrote:
> >The writer Jorge Luis Borges wrote a poem called "El Go" try a search
> >on google for a translation in english. He is IMHO the best writer in
> >Argentina of the XXth C.
>
> Please correct my weak translation. I don't know enough
> Spanish. Actually I don't know it at all, but I had a dictionary handy.
>
> Jorge Luis Borges
>
> EL GO
>
> Hoy, nueve de setiembre de 1978,
> * Today, on the ninth of September 1978
>
> tuve en la palma de la mano un pequeño disco
> * I held in the palm of my hand a little disc
>
> de los trescientos sesenta y uno que se requieren
> * one the three hundred and sixty one that are required
>
> para el juego astrológico del go,
> * to play the astrological game of go
>
> ese otro ajedrez del Oriente.
> * that other chess of the Orient.
>
> Es más antiguo que la más antigua escritura
> * It is older than then oldest writing
>
> y el tablero es un mapa del universo.
> * and its board is a map of the universe.
>
> Sus variaciones negras y blancas
> * Its variations in black and white
>
> agotarán el tiempo.
> * will exhaust time itself. [itself is my addition/mistake]
>
> En él pueden perderse los hombres
> * In it men can lose themselves,
>
> como en el amor y en el día.
> * like in love, or like in a day. [this is probably wrong]
> Hoy nueve de setiembre de 1978,
> * Today, on the ninth of September 1978
>
> yo, que soy ignorante de tantas cosas,
> * I, that am ignorant of many things,
>
> sé que ignoro una más,
> * knowing that I ignore most, [this must be wrong]
> i'm concious thay i ignore one more
> y agradezco a mis númenes
> * have thanked my numinous ones [númenes wasn't in the dict]
I give thanks to my muses
>
> esta revelación de un laberinto
> * for this revelation of a labyrinth
>
> que nunca será mío.
> * that can never be mine.
that will never be mine
>
> The Spanish language is a labyrinth, too. Maybe I will find the time to
> learn it properly some time. I wish...
>
> Pekka Karjalainen, an admirer of Borges
Very good job withthe translation!!
numenes appears in my spanish dic as "onr of the many deities in greek
mithology. inspiration for the artist", so "muse" would be ok.
BTW, the man in the labyrinth is a recurrent topic in Borges'
bibliography
Juan
Michael Alford
Thanks to all three of you for this marvelous little poem :)
malf
Ralph
How about, Go a territorial game played on 361 intersections with 2
buckets of rocks.
"Match request in 1 minute with ________ as black, 1/10"
Simon Goss
Pekka:
>> yo, que soy ignorante de tantas cosas,
>> * I, that am ignorant of many things,
>>
>> sé que ignoro una más,
>> * knowing that I ignore most, [this must be wrong]
Denis:
>It is :) " know now that I ignore one more" is the best I could come
>with.
"ignore" in English means "take no notice of". I think the sense is more
like:
I, who am ignorant of many things,
know that I am ignorant of one above all,
--
Simon
Pekka Karjalainen
>Very good job withthe translation!!
thank you for your comments and corrections. Same for Denis Feldmann.
Pekka
John Fairbairn
ignorar means "to not know," not ignore (faux ami). Surely all he is saying
is "I, who know I am ignorant of so many things, know that there is one
more thing I do not know." (Note also the "so" before many)
Denis Feldmann
> "Simon Goss" <si...@gosoft.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:sb3lNpAE...@gosoft.demon.co.uk...
>> Thanks Pekka for translating this.
>>
>> Pekka:
>>>> yo, que soy ignorante de tantas cosas,
>>>> * I, that am ignorant of many things,
>>>>
>>>> sé que ignoro una más,
>>>> * knowing that I ignore most, [this must be wrong]
>>
>> Denis:
>>> It is :) " know now that I ignore one more" is the best I could come
>>> with.
>>
>> "ignore" in English means "take no notice of". I think the sense is
>> more like:
>>
>> I, who am ignorant of many things,
>> know that I am ignorant of one above all,
>> --
>
> ignorar means "to not know," not ignore (faux ami).
Yes, sorry, I did reproduce this mistake. In French (not so surprising, as
the english word comes from it:-)), *both* meanings exists, but "ignorer"
has the meaning of "to ignore, i.e to take no notice of" only in the
somewhat dated expression "ignorer quelqu'un" (to ignore somebody).
Surely all he is
> saying is "I, who know I am ignorant of so many things, know that
> there is one more thing I do not know." (Note also the "so" before
> many)
Yes, that's exactly it (though I would prefer, for stylistic reasons, "I,
who know I am ignorant of so many things, know now that
> there is one more of them" (and of course, it still doesn't capture the
elegance and terseness of the original :-( ))
Rober...@yahoogroups.com
From: bha...@aol.com (BHaber)}}
Actually the word "killer" in the Subject field is the opposite of what
you want to emphasize. Whereas typical board games require you to
totally destroy the opponent or assassinate the enemy's leader (king
for example), in Go you don't have to kill anyone to win the game, all
you have to do is capture better than 50% global market share.
Note that because the board starts off empty, you don't even have to
take anything away from your opponent to get that 50+% of the market
share. You merely must move into unoccupied territory more efficiently
than your opponent.
ras
http://www.geocities.com/jason_11235/5204-030417.html ):
"Go is an ancient art (1750 B.C.) that combines logic and intuition,
using simple rules to form a most challenging and complex strategy
game."
He had only one sentence. IF you're writing a grant proposal, you can
include much more. In addition to what's been listed; I would suggest
taking a look at the sidebar on Kiseido's main page; some good stuff
there.
salut
bha...@aol.com (BHaber) wrote in message news:<20030505232817...@mb-m06.aol.com>...
ras
for the Borges poem
pkar...@paju.oulu.fi (Pekka Karjalainen) wrote in message news:<slrnbbnev4....@paju.oulu.fi>...
gowan
> Hi.
>
> I'm applying for a one of a limited number of grants to do a local television
> series about go, and I wonder if any of you have seen any really provacative
> killer and concise descriptions of what go is that I could read to help me with
> my application.
>
> Any ideas greatly appreciated.
>
> best,
>
> b
> http://members.aol.com/bhaber/gopage/blakesgo.html
The following is well known but I don't know the original author. I
got it from the AGA web site:
Go is... an ancient board game which takes simple elements -- line and
circle, Black and White, stone and wood -- combines them with simple
rules and generates subtleties which have enthralled players for
millenia. Beyond being merely a game, Go can take on other meanings to
enthusiasts: an analogy with life, an intense meditation, a mirror of
one's personality, an exercise in abstract reasoning, or, when played
well, a beautiful art in which Black and White dance across the board
in delicate balance. But most important for all who play, Go is
challenging and fun.
To impress the grant screening committee you might refer to the fact
that in China and Japan a millenium ago Go was one of the four or five
"arts" whose practice was considered necessary for someone to be
considered refined and cultured.
Juan
Someone told me: "Go is all that matters; well, there are other things
in life, but they are gote and worth less than 10 points"
Go; that thing some people call a game.
Juan
BHaber
in life, but they are gote and worth less than 10 points">>
That person has never played golf!
b
go/lf'er
CaymanWendt
profess to know of one. But if I were applying for a grant, I would
look for something provocative that describes the basic rules of the
game. I offer you this afternoon's musings as an example of what I
might submit in the absence of anything else. I realize that this may
seem to most a lesser attempt at describing the game of go, and I
accept that in advance.
CW
Weiqi, Igo, Baduk, Go, names by which it's known,
a game of strategy, simple, elegant, yet profound.
On opposite ends of a finely carved and ancient wooden board sit two
worthy opponents,
its playing surface shimmering with 361 intersections formed by a
carefully drawn 19 by 19 grid.
Reaching into a cherrywood bowl filled with expertly chiseled
coal-black stones of slate,
the weaker opponent begins the game by placing a stone on one of these
points.
Gently plucking a white stone from his bowl and lifting it gracefully
toward the board,
the stronger player places a delicately cut clamshell stone at another
carefully selected point.
These warriors alternate turns seeking to control the largest combined
areas of the board,
craftily evading their opponents well-planned attacks with intricate
defenses and clever counter-attacks.
As the stones grow and blossom into impenetrable barriers or
unstoppable invading forces,
their sound when launched upon the board resonates and echoes
throughout the universe.
Countless battles fought, armies trapped, prisoners taken, gains
consolidated,
then slowly, relentlessly, inevitably, boundaries form, land divided.
When finally, hands rest and stones quiet, the weary generals count
their gains,
until, with grace and humility, one emerges triumphant and the other
bows their head in defeat.
The world's greatest, most enduring, most fascinating game, ends,
only to begin again, and again, and again, until the end of time.