KGS vs. Dashn
Ilan Vardi
are my totally subjective impressions (in order of importance with
lower number being more important):
KGS strong points:
1. Seems to be only Go server to have lots of competition from 10K - 30K.
2. Seems to be only good Go server to have 9x9 competition at all levels.
3. Match selection is best (advert instead of challenging individuals).
4. Good game review functions.
5. All games saved on Internet site.
6. When observing a game can start at its beginning.
7. Lots of different types of people.
8. Interesting chat.
9. Good place for people from same or different cultures to meet.
KGS weak points:
1. Board is small (on my 15 inch screen).
2. Incomprehensible rating system, random global rating changes.
3. Escapers.
4. Undo function leads to problems.
5. Losing opponents reviewing your won game.
6. Lots of pretentious people (I suppose homologues will butt heads).
7. Admins and assistants can overstep their powers for non go stuff,
but not do anything when there is a game problem (abuser).
---------------------------
Dashn strong points
1. Board interface is my favorite.
2. No escapers.
3. No undo.
4. Simple rating system (Win - Loss = 8 and you gain one level).
When you gain a level, you must lose 3 games to downgrade, so
your rating is more stable.
5. Call Help button always resolves problems.
6. Annoying opponents abuse one in Korean, which I don't understand
(and anyway my interface doesn't print it corectly).
7. Game style closer to my own: fighting like a big 9x9 game and people
generally don't know openings or joseki.
8. Game review function (with score estimate now).
9. The people who chat with you in English are always pleasant.
Dashn weak points
1. Must challenge opponents.
2. Few people in the evening (France) when it is night in Korea.
3. When observing a game, you cannot start at its beginning (as far as I know).
4. Opponents are fairly homogeneous, none of the Koreans knows as much about
openings and joseki as on KGS (at my level of 5K).
5. No 9x9 games.
6. Server is too strong for players weaker than about 8K on KGS.
-ilan
-
ila...@yahoo.com (Ilan Vardi) wrote:
> ... KGS weak points:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> 2. Incomprehensible rating system, random global rating changes.
Really? I thought you said that you were a mathematician.
- regards
- jb
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Warp
> 2. Incomprehensible rating system, random global rating changes.
The KGS rating system compensates quite well if you happen to play a
game against someone whose rank is temporarily off by several stones.
For example, suppose that your opponent rank is temporarily like 10k
when in reality he is like 5k and you lose to him; when his rank gets
to its proper level, this will properly affect your rank as well (that
is the loss against him does not downgrade your own rank so much
anymore).
It also takes into account a modest amount of handicap properly in the
rank.
Besides, rank is not all that important. The important thing is to have
a good time. If you think your rank is too low, just ask for less handicap
when starting a game.
> 3. Escapers.
Escaping has virtually no effect on one's rank, so it simply doesn't make
sense for someone to chronically escape. If you play against a chronical
escaper, you will get your win eventually.
> 3. No undo.
In your opinion it's good that if you misclick, you lose the game?
After all, it's much easier to accidentally click in the wrong place
than to place a stone in the wrong place in a real game.
> 1. Must challenge opponents.
Having played mainly on KGS I really can't understand how anyone can
think this is a good way to set up games. The KGS system just seems so
logical and simple. Why anyone would make anything else?
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News.Individual.NET
"Ilan Vardi" <ila...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:b26c09dc.04102...@posting.google.com...
>
> Dashn strong points
>
> 1. Board interface is my favorite.
>
I don´t play there because it isn´t playable with the resolution i like,
800x600, and imho, it´s unpolite not to let anything but 1024x768 (and
that´s not a problem for my hardware, just i don´t like it)
Dash weird points: What a hell is all about the bets ?!
Petri P
long time. But is good as any certainly better than Dashn
> 4. Simple rating system (Win - Loss = 8 and you gain one level).
> When you gain a level, you must lose 3 games to downgrade, so
> your rating is more stable.
>
> 5. Call Help button always resolves problems.
>
a player who gives you 2 stones handicap and request scoring of game
already in beginning. And by that time game can be scored. Both
players just mark all stoones dead and you lose by 2 points. I could
not get my opponent to continue game nor pressinfg help did anything.
Never seen anything remotely unpolite like this in anyother server.
This added together with non-escaping all one can do is to resign
> 6. Annoying opponents abuse one in Korean, which I don't understand
> (and anyway my interface doesn't print it corectly).
>
Well very few of them speak English. If they abuse me or not I do not
know. Maybe they are just polite?
> 7. Game style closer to my own: fighting like a big 9x9 game and people
> generally don't know openings or joseki.
>
TRhe only reason to play Dashn. I am quite weak in fighting. There you
will meet some fighting, unsound invasions.... That is place to learn
how to handle them. GAining againt player who always invades is hard
unless you really kill him once while.
> 3. When observing a game, you cannot start at its beginning (as far as I know).
There is a review button. So you can rewind it.
>
> 6. Server is too strong for players weaker than about 8K on KGS.
I am 8k in KGS and found easily games in Dashn around my rank.
Petri
Orne Batmagoo
Ilan Vardi wrote:
> KGS weak points:
>
> 1. Board is small (on my 15 inch screen).
Oh, come on, Ilan. I know that you have quite a sense of humor, so
I must ask: Are you serious?
How is this a weak point of KGS? If anything, it's a weakness of your monitor.
A go board displayed from any other server or client would be just as small, Silly!
Didn't you know that you can resize the board window? And re-position the clocks?
--
Orne Batmagoo
Planar
pet...@lycos.co.uk (Petri P) wrote:
> Never worked for me. A favorite trick used against silly foreigner is
> a player who gives you 2 stones handicap and request scoring of game
> already in beginning. And by that time game can be scored. Both
> players just mark all stoones dead and you lose by 2 points. I could
> not get my opponent to continue game nor pressinfg help did anything.
> Never seen anything remotely unpolite like this in anyother server.
Scoring? Without both players having passed? And no way to deal
with disputes about which stones are dead? I thought Dashn was a
go server?!?
--
Planar
remove .invalid from my address to send me mail
"Surprise. Then just use AGA rules and that's it." - Robert Jasiek
Peter McKenzie
> are my totally subjective impressions (in order of importance with
> lower number being more important):
I've played almost all my go games on KGS and have never used any
other server. So I guess KGS is 'good enough' for me, although I
wouldn't mind seeing a few improvments (see below).
>
> KGS strong points:
>
> 1. Seems to be only Go server to have lots of competition from 10K - 30K.
I'm currently 10K and have enjoyed playing lots of different opponents
while working up through the grades.
>
> 2. Seems to be only good Go server to have 9x9 competition at all levels.
>
> 3. Match selection is best (advert instead of challenging individuals).
It is a good system but I'd like to see more information in the open
games window. For example a column showing the time control would be
good. I know you can manually type it in but that is a chore and many
people don't do it.
>
> 4. Good game review functions.
>
> 5. All games saved on Internet site.
>
> 6. When observing a game can start at its beginning.
>
> 7. Lots of different types of people.
>
> 8. Interesting chat.
>
> 9. Good place for people from same or different cultures to meet.
>
>
> KGS weak points:
>
> 1. Board is small (on my 15 inch screen).
I have a 15 inch screen and the board size seems fine. Time for a
bigger screen perhaps?
>
> 2. Incomprehensible rating system, random global rating changes.
Actually I think the system works rather well. I noticed they did a
global rating change recently but I assume there was a good reason for
it. Did you try to find out why?
>
> 3. Escapers.
Yeah, escapers are a pain. The other night I played 4 games: I lost 2
and in the other 2 my opponent escaped when in a difficult position.
I would favour a harder line vs escapers: if you don't re-connect
within 5 minutes then you automatically get a loss for that game.
>
> 4. Undo function leads to problems.
Not sure why you need the undo function as the anti mouse slip system
is excellent and practically eliminates mouse slips in my experience.
>
> 5. Losing opponents reviewing your won game.
I don't understand what you mean there.
>
> 6. Lots of pretentious people (I suppose homologues will butt heads).
>
> 7. Admins and assistants can overstep their powers for non go stuff,
> but not do anything when there is a game problem (abuser).
>
A couple more:
Strong points:
a) It has a good web client so you don't even need to install software
on your machine.
b) Ease of Use for Beginners: this server really is brilliantly easy
to use for the beginner.
Weak points:
a) Web client doesn't save preferences (it could easily save them
using a cookie). This is a pain as anti mouse slip defaults to off so
you must remember to turn it on in the preferences at the start of
each session. Just a minor point though.
b) Features for Power Users: I would like to be able to customise the
interface to my own liking, for example it would be nice to be able to
add functions I commonly use to a tool bar. This sort of thing
currently isn't possible.
Overall I think KGS is very good and hopefully will continue to get
better.
cheers,
Peter McKenzie
dajava
> "Ilan Vardi" <ila...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
> news:b26c09dc.04102...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Dashn strong points
> >
> > 1. Board interface is my favorite.
> >
>
> I don´t play there because it isn´t playable with the resolution i like,
> 800x600, and imho, it´s unpolite not to let anything but 1024x768 (and
> that´s not a problem for my hardware, just i don´t like it)
1024x768 monitor resolution is standard in South Korea.
Are you a Europian?
South Korea is one of the most important countries for IT industry in the world.
(In fact, the most important country in the world.)
Korean people tend to use higher resolution monitors than 1024x768 these days.
>
> Dash weird points: What a hell is all about the bets ?!
Why is it weird?
I do not play on Dashn
and just guess that it is like other Korean servers.
betting some points are just for funs.
It is of no real monetary value.
dajava,
Paul Piriou
News.Individual.NET
"dajava" <yat...@mym.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:f449be9c.04102...@posting.google.com...
> 1024x768 monitor resolution is standard in South Korea.
> Are you a Europian?
Yep, and an old one, perhaps these are my defects ;-)
>> Dash weird points: What a hell is all about the bets ?!
>
> Why is it weird?
> I do not play on Dashn
> and just guess that it is like other Korean servers.
> betting some points are just for funs.
> It is of no real monetary value.
Weird doesn´t mean bad, just weird (imho), and for me is weird betting in go
and even more to bet no true money, i don´t understand why the programmer
took the time to imprement a mock beting system, but anyway, no problem ...
dajava
Excuse me.
Didn't you know that Korean baduk players are gamblers? :)
I went through my college degree earning money for tuition and books
playing gambling baduk games. ha ha ha
My playing style is a typical one as a bang-nae-gi player.
-----------------------------------------------------
from http://www.britgo.org/gopcres/playx.html
Gamenet Korea dead
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My comment :
The Korean server supported *bang-nae-gi*.
It is bad it went out of business.
By the way, it is an open secret ( it is a secret but everyone knows
of it)that there are black markets for the bet money. It is like poker
sites in Korea. Players use internet sites as cyber casino. Their
cyber money are exchanged for real money in black markets.
dajava,
Hikaru79
> Ilan Vardi <ila...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Dashn weak points
>
>
> need "windows" to work...
>
>
Indeed. I used to be a big Dashn user back on my Windows system. Then I
switched to Linux and Dashn was the most visible casualty. This makes me
VERY sad as Dashn was the only Korean server I'd ever been on and I
enjoyed it immensly. I've heard a few success stories of using WINE to
run the apps on Linux, but an equal amount reported an inability for it
to work. Any inputs from members of this newsgroup? Tips or tricks to
make Dashn's client WINE-Compatible? Does one HAVE to download the IE
application for WINE (or CrossOver Office) or can it be done without?
Thanks! ^_^