Alternative Go topologies
Mr. B
such as a torus or klein bottle? I am thinking about trying it, and am
wondering if anyone has any tips on which topologies provide more of a
challenge.
-- B
Robert Jasiek
The challenge is rarely greater but can be different. On different
grid shapes, you might have to start afresh learning tactics. 2D in 3D
shapes mainly require one's careful reading because we see only a 2D
representation.
It has been said that 19x19 would be optimal because of its balance
between territory and influence. There is quite some truth in it.
However, it is quite possible that other grids can also be as
interesting but in different ways. Other (ko) rules can be for sure:)
Nick Wedd
To try a variety of topologies, including the two you mention, you can
use Bakaban - see http://www.britgo.org/reviews/bakaban.html.
My impression of actually playing on unbounded topologies is that the
lack of edges gives a poorer game. It is difficult either to kill
anything, or to make any territory. It is conceivable that skilled play
would lead to a whole-board seki.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Joel Olson
>
One could propose an "index" that counted the populations of points with
n liberties. So the 19x19 board has 4 points of 2 liberties, 68 points of 3
liberties,
and 289 points of 4 liberties. I'd conjecture that the various donut-shape
boards
would be interesting, yet not greatly un-usual, as these would increase the
pro-
portion of points with reduced liberties.
Joachim Pimiskern
> My impression of actually playing on unbounded topologies
> is that the lack of edges gives a poorer game.
Additional edges can be easily gotten by removal of
intersections. Imagine a board with an atrium.
Regards,
Joachim
Nick Wedd
<JoachimP...@web.de> writes
There is a snag with using an atrium. Its corners have the full four
liberties, but are much more important than other points for making
connections. A game is likely to start with moves on the corners of
atria, until these are all occupied.
--CELKO--
has Linear Go. It was invented by James Marston Henle and it was
discussed in Scientific American in Martin Gardner's column. He
reports that an eight point is complex enough to be interesting.
--CELKO--
alex_d
I wonder how many long-time players still explore other board
topologies; also, I wonder if this kind of exploration is rather
typical of beginning go players.
I tend to explain it as this initial fascination that propels new
players to overshoot the game, hoping to find even "better". Maybe
there are interesting variants lurking around, but then I invite those
players to try to unify the existing rulesets instead...
IMHO once you discover how much is left to discover on a classic
board, it might be fun to explore alternatives, but even small boards
are already so rich that variants become relatively low priority. But
again, I can understand the fascination for variants.
-alex-
(btw - I did not escape this phenomenon, look around on SL...)
Joel Olson
news:acf72f88-6ab0-4877...@z24g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
-alex-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
I agree. The newbies enjoy experimenting. They can't play even one
joseki, yet dive into pair go, zen go, even one-color go. Perhaps its
a phase.
Terrybenson
> "alex_d" <alexander.duytschae...@gmail.com> wrote in message
At the US Go Congress some 15% of the attendees participate in "Crazy
Go" - an evening of alternate forms of go including some special
boards (Spiral Go, Hex Go, 3D Go and 23 line Go). Among the other
games there is Joker Go (cards with shapes that may be drawn from a
deck and played instead of a move), Zen Go (3 player), Monotone Go
(one color - best played using a computer as judge), 4 Color Go (a
form of Diplomacy), various multiple move at a time forms (Binary,
Triple, Pon-nuki and Progressive), and the crowd favorite: Rengo
Kreigspeil. Some of the forms can be instructive (Zen Go and Monotone
Go in particular). But it is clearly light-hearted and meant to be fun
and a "break" from the general serious go of the event. I don't think
it's a phase. Players of every strength and age play and many come
back year after year. Teachers of younger children take back some of
the forms to enliven their classes. Many of the mathematically minded
players enjoy other shapes. Strong players sit down at 23 line go. And
some of these forms are great levelers. My 20+ kyu daughter was great
at Rengo Kreigspeil.
What Crazy Go does - along with Silly Go Songs, go quizes, and other
diversions - is loosen up a game which - for many - can be too serious
and hierarchical. We want to appeal to as broad a range of people as
possible. Of 100 kids who learn to play, maybe 5 will stick with the
game long enough to become "players" and only a few of those will make
it "their" game. It is useful to do anything we can do to keep kids
(and adults) involved in the game so that the underlying value can
show itself or so that the social group aspects of playing kick in.
The game has to be fun. After all, it's something we *play*.
Joel Olson
news:ad639ac2-1dbf-45cb...@o13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nice exposition. And yes, those nights are lots of fun. But in a sloppy
statistical sense, I think the newer players are more apt to explore the
boundaries of this new world than are those who've gotten serious about
the game.
As a distorted example, I present an anecdote from a recent Moon Festival
at one of the local colleges. We manned a table illustrating go, with a few
boards & stones, books, congress bags, etc. Soon after lunch, a couple of
Asian girls came up, sat down, and started playing 5-in-a-row. They soon
had several on-lookers. :-)
richard
One thing that gains the disapproval of dan players is when weaker players play 9x9 on a 19x19 board where only every other
intersection may be used.
Harry Fearnley
Henry Segerman has implemented a 3-d "Diamond" Go set
(as 84, 165, or 286 nodes)
There is further information at/via: