Shadow Walk as an "escape spell"
Werebat
of feet beneath solid rock, earth, and rubble, with no exits to the
surface.
Can she cast Shadow Walk and use it to escape from her cthonic prison?
Or no?
- Ron ^*^
Michael Scott Brown
Without consulting the nature of the plane of shadow further in a Planes
book, it's hard to tell; everything about the spell seems to be in the
context of taking an unobstructed path, the only discussion of passing
through solid real estate is by mistake. However, the spell does shunt you
further along in Shadow when that happens ... which means that travel
through solid objects is clearly *possible* for this mode of transportation,
though it may not be possible in a controlled fashion.
Actually, that gives you an out - regardless of whether the border of
shadow mimics the topography of the prime or not, you can probably make the
shunting rule work for you. Use Shadow Walk to travel to an edge of the
troublesome area ("up", if possible) and then try to come back to the
prime - you will appear a random distance from where you intend, which will
likely be in solid rock, and you'll be shunted continuously until you
surface - if, that is, you are shunted in an upwards direction in the first
place .... it's late for me and so I could have overlooked something,
though.
-Michael
MikeA.
>through solid real estate is by mistake.
Personally I think the answer is yes from my reading of the spell. I just
wanted to ask if they changed the text in the 3.5 or any revised editions. From
what I gathered in the 3rd ED. description the caster has control over entry
and exit. As long as there is an abundance of shadows. The spell description
does mention it as moving along the border of the plane. Still if the spell can
move you to another plane with effort on your part; seems an escape in this
manner is'nt bending a rule much.
Still, I ask about the different text because apparently we may be reading
something different for such an expanded definition of results.
Have a good one.
Mike A.
Werebat
IDHTBIFOM but my question was based on a reading of the 3.5 text, so I
suppose that not much has changed.
I figured that at the very least, the spell would allow the trapped
wizard to journey to another plane, and then try to return back from
there. A reading of the MotP section on the Plane of Shadow was very
interesting and informative, but didn't spell out what would happen in my
proposed situation.
It says that the terrain you were in remains the same, be it forest,
swamp, underwater, etc., but it appears "shadowy" and dark, under a
starless sky lit from nowhere (I'm picturing Nightmare
Before Christmas' Halloweentown). As you travel further from the point
of entry, specific landmarks get more and more different, but the general
terrain appears more or less the same. You might pass a ruined, empty
town with no complement on the Prime, or a major city on the Prime might
not exist at all on the plane of Shadow, and then again it might be there
the next time you visit. It's a weird place.
I could see it being ruled either way, to be honest with you. The spell
doesn't specify.
- Ron ^*^
Ubiquitous
I'd have to check the spell description because it may have changed,
but I think one can. Think of it as an slower teleport spell.
--
======================================================================
ISLAM: Winning the hearts and minds of the world, one bomb at a time.
Justisaur
> I figured that at the very least, the spell would allow the trapped
> wizard to journey to another plane, and then try to return back from
> there. A reading of the MotP section on the Plane of Shadow was very
> interesting and informative, but didn't spell out what would happen in
> my proposed situation.
>
> It says that the terrain you were in remains the same, be it forest,
> swamp, underwater, etc., but it appears "shadowy" and dark, under a
> starless sky lit from nowhere (I'm picturing Nightmare
> Before Christmas' Halloweentown). As you travel further from the
> point of entry, specific landmarks get more and more different, but
> the general terrain appears more or less the same. You might pass a
> ruined, empty town with no complement on the Prime, or a major city on
> the Prime might not exist at all on the plane of Shadow, and then
> again it might be there the next time you visit. It's a weird place.
>
The plane of shadow is a subset of the etherial plane, the etherial allows
you to travel through solid objects, so I think you would be able to travel
that way, I'd definately allow it.
--
Justisaur
http://justisaur.tripod.com/well.htm for my encounter generator, xp
calculator & other files.
Michael Scott Brown
news:Xns94C98A8CE5...@204.127.204.17...
?? I was under the impression that the last official cosmology had
Shadow and Ethereal quite separate, for all that they both were coterminous
with the prime. One of us is on crack.
Of course, perhaps there is a question to ask, there- given the
ethereal's association with spooky pookies, and Shadow's association with
spooky pookies, why have both?
-Michael
James Quick
Different kinds of spooky pookies.
Actually, I don't really associate the ethereal (or the astral, for
that matter) with spooky pookies, more of just mindless dangers,
whereas the shadow plane I associate with Things That Must Not Be
Named and Soul Eating Things From Beyond.
--
James Quick [][][] jamesqu...@hotmail.com
I find this embrace of cognitive dissonance somewhat perplexing.
It makes me want to kick you in the nuts.
- MSB to Cope, on rgfd
Justisaur
news:c5f02r$okk$1...@lumberjack.rand.org:
> "Justisaur" <just...@removespam.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns94C98A8CE5...@204.127.204.17...
>> Werebat <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote in news:407848...@cox.net:
>> The plane of shadow is a subset of the etherial plane,
>
> ?? I was under the impression that the last official cosmology had
> Shadow and Ethereal quite separate, for all that they both were
> coterminous with the prime. One of us is on crack.
>
Oy. They might have changed it. It used to be a demi-plane of the
etherial. *digs out 3e MotP*. Hmm. Yep. It's now only attached to the
astral and material. It even says that it used to be a demi-plane but some
god made it a full blown plane. Doesn't name the god. In fact most of the
information on the plane is rather... shadowy.
> Of course, perhaps there is a question to ask, there- given the
> ethereal's association with spooky pookies, and Shadow's association
> with spooky pookies, why have both?
Good question. I used to think of it as a cross between the etherial and
the negative. For that matter I never saw a need for both the etherial and
astral either.
Wayne Shaw
wrote:
>The plane of shadow is a subset of the etherial plane, the etherial allows
Not in 3e it isn't. They're entirely seperate beasts.
Marc
news:e0ef35d566052c24...@news.nntpserver.com:
I believe the Shadow Plane is an optional plane that can actually
connect to other universes, ie: other prime material planes.
Keith Davies
I sort of use both, though they've changed.
The Ethereal Plane IMC is more or less a 'scaffold' used by the gods
while they were building the prime plane, where they were planning to
move. Things Happened; the project never completed, so they still live
in the outer planes.
The elemental planes were put in place to help stabilize the framework
and provide 'material'. Consider them to be arranged in a tetrahedron
rather than a ring; the ethereal plane is within and around the 'volume'
described by this.
Amorphia is outside this. When they say the world was formed from void
or from chaos, this is the stuff they're referring to. Very high
energy, *not* a safe place to play. In fact, part of the definition for
the various types of gods is based on the ability to survive in
amorphia for indefinite periods.
Elder gods have the ability to survive in it directly. They are
completely alien to us -- they can't even perceive time... this makes
it very difficult to share a frame of reference.
True gods (see Deities and Demigods) *can* perceive time, but aren't
particular bound by it. They don't survive amorphia directly, but
(most) have the ability to keep it off them. Greater gods can
establish planes, intermediate gods can clear an area large enough to
protect themselves and others, lesser gods can just keep it off them.
Demigods lack the ability to do this in a sustained fashion, but those
with spellcasting ability may be able to use spells to do it for a
brief time.
The outer planes are what remains of Paradise, where all the gods lived
before their Great Project (creating the Prime Material Plane); it
wasn't entirely stable and a maelstrom hit it during their project,
shattering it and splitting up the gods. Each piece was changed to some
extent by this event; some were destroyed entirely, others just made
much, much different. The gods on the smaller planes were able to
stabilize them -- eventually.
I'm still thinking about the astral plane. Initially I considered
making amorphia the 'astral plane'; the framework in place helps explain
why it's so hard to get there -- there are several buffers between the
Prime Material Plane and amorphia, after all, to protect the PMP from
the amorphia. I might instead make it a purely mental plane -- it
exists in parallel to everything because it uses a different set of the
dimensions. Gods exist on all of them, and can perceive all of them,
humans and the like can only deal with a limited subset at any one
time... but some have gained the ability to change which ones.
Faerie is in parallel to the PMP; I'm strongly considering using *it*
instead of the ethereal. The behavior it exhibits does not contradict
the purpose of the etheral; the fey just moved in and populated it.
There is also the Hall of Doors. It's a 'large' (conceptually large,
that is) tower-like structure full of rooms with doors leading to
various places in the prime material plane. Teleporting around the
firmament before it really became, well, *firm* wasn't very safe, even
for gods, so this place was created as a nexus to help get around
quickly. Mortals can use it to get around as well. I haven't decided
if it can also be used to get to the outer planes; probably not, but I
may change my mind.
Keith
--
Keith Davies "Your ability to bang your head against
keith....@kjdavies.org reality in the hope that reality will
crack first is impressive, but futile"
-- Geoffrey Brent, rec.games.frp.dnd
Courtney Love
My quick read of the 3.0 version of the spell shows no reason why she can't.
Your 3.5 MMV.
--
"Justice is as strictly due between neighbor nations as between neighbor
citizens. A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang, as when
single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang."
--Benjamin Franklin
Courtney Love
>?? I was under the impression that the last official cosmology had
>Shadow and Ethereal quite separate, for all that they both were coterminous
>with the prime. One of us is on crack.
Official dogma is that they are both transitive planes, separate but equal as
it were. You're not on crack.
>Of course, perhaps there is a question to ask, there- given the
>ethereal's association with spooky pookies, and Shadow's association with
>spooky pookies, why have both?
This is one of my few beefs with the 3E MoP book. There seemed no good reason
to change the layout of the Universe when it made good sense in 1E, except of
course for the goof about djinni & efreeti.
Rick Pikul
keith....@kjdavies.org says...
{Foomph...}
> There is also the Hall of Doors. It's a 'large' (conceptually large,
> that is) tower-like structure full of rooms with doors leading to
> various places in the prime material plane. Teleporting around the
> firmament before it really became, well, *firm* wasn't very safe, even
> for gods, so this place was created as a nexus to help get around
> quickly. Mortals can use it to get around as well. I haven't decided
> if it can also be used to get to the outer planes; probably not, but I
> may change my mind.
If there are such doors, they are likely:
Hard to find.
Well protected.
Lead to unsafe areas in the outer plains, (either inherently, or
because the locals know about their end and have taken steps).
Now, regardless of your decision, you can tempt the players with
what was clearly a door to the outer planes at some time, but now it's a
twisted ruin.
You could even make it clearly one of the main entrances, which
was destroyed when the part of Paradise it lead to went *pop*.
--
Phoenix
Keith Davies
> In article <slrnc7mn24.gf...@kjdavies.kjdavies.org>,
> keith....@kjdavies.org says...
>
> {Foomph...}
>
>> There is also the Hall of Doors. It's a 'large' (conceptually large,
>> that is) tower-like structure full of rooms with doors leading to
>> various places in the prime material plane. Teleporting around the
>> firmament before it really became, well, *firm* wasn't very safe, even
>> for gods, so this place was created as a nexus to help get around
>> quickly. Mortals can use it to get around as well. I haven't decided
>> if it can also be used to get to the outer planes; probably not, but I
>> may change my mind.
>
> If there are such doors, they are likely:
>
> Hard to find.
> Well protected.
> Lead to unsafe areas in the outer plains, (either inherently, or
> because the locals know about their end and have taken steps).
heh, fwiw *most* doors lead to places that are fairly unsafe, in the
ways you mention. They were originally intended for use by gods, so
opening up in the center of an active volcano isn't much of a problem,
nor is opening at the bottom of the ocean.
> Now, regardless of your decision, you can tempt the players with
> what was clearly a door to the outer planes at some time, but now it's a
> twisted ruin.
> You could even make it clearly one of the main entrances, which
> was destroyed when the part of Paradise it lead to went *pop*.
Good ideas, thanks.
Wayne Shaw
wrote:
I don't see any signs it's more "optional" than any other plane; there
are plenty of monsters dependent on it for their existance.
Marc
> I don't see any signs it's more "optional" than any other plane; there
> are plenty of monsters dependent on it for their existance.
>
>
Sorry, I got that wrong. I think I mean to write,"The shadow plane
can, optionally, connect different prime material planes."
Wayne Shaw
wrote:
Ah. Yes, without that, it doesn't serve much purpose except to
justify shadow magic.
Stephenls
> I sort of use both, though they've changed.
<snip>
I suppose now is as good a time as any to babble on about how I use 'em.
The Ethereal Plane is coterminous and coexistent with the Primes that
make up Greater Ward (different Primes at different points), and leads
into the deep ethereal which eventually leads into the Far Realm.
That's bad news, so stay the hell away from it. The big dangers from
the Far Realm have trouble entering our reality that way, though, -- the
Far Realm has infinite layers and the Ethereal Plane only has one (Deep
Ethereal has a variable number depending on location and DM's whim), so
beings that span multiple planar layers at once can't squeeze through.
Things like Ethereal Marauders are descended from simple Far Realm
beasties that managed to take the, er, journey upstream, as it were.
The Astral is coterminous but not coexistent, and goes on forever in the
standard D&D way, with lumps of astral rock and Githyanki raiders and
all the cool things that normally inhabit the Astral. Unlike in
standard D&D, the Astral is the only way to get to other cosmologies --
it's essentially Planar Outer Space. It's impractical, though.
The Shadow... the Shadow is the twisted and distorted reflection of
reality dimension, like the real world but evil. (Only no evil twins.)
The Ethereal is just going out of phase with reality, so you can walk
through walls and stuff looks foggy -- the Shadow is actually going
someplace else that kinda looks like going out of phase with reality but
really isn't. It's a bit like the Penumbra from World of Darkness
games. "Shadow Walk" is a way to make the Plane of Shadow behave like
hyperspace. This is not what the Shadow is fore.
Were I ever to run a longer planar campaign, one of the subplots would
probably be "What did the Plane of Shadow look like before the big
planar cataclysm that shoved it way too close to the Negative Energy
Plane happened?" I'm not sure what the answer'd be.
Gods don't come up in the above description because I tend to see them
less as beings who create cosmologies and more as beings who spring into
existence as a natural result of cosmologies springing into existence.
Ward has three native gods (one permanently dead, who's death at the
hands of Ward's wizard population was the cause of the metaphysical
cataclysm, one in mourning, and one imprisoned) and an invader god from
another cosmology.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike
Keith Davies
> Keith Davies wrote:
>
>> I sort of use both, though they've changed.
>
><snip>
>
> I suppose now is as good a time as any to babble on about how I use 'em.
>
> The Ethereal Plane is coterminous and coexistent with the Primes that
> make up Greater Ward (different Primes at different points), and leads
> into the deep ethereal which eventually leads into the Far Realm.
> That's bad news, so stay the hell away from it. The big dangers from
> the Far Realm have trouble entering our reality that way, though, -- the
> Far Realm has infinite layers and the Ethereal Plane only has one (Deep
> Ethereal has a variable number depending on location and DM's whim), so
> beings that span multiple planar layers at once can't squeeze through.
> Things like Ethereal Marauders are descended from simple Far Realm
> beasties that managed to take the, er, journey upstream, as it were.
That's a really good (and interesting) explanation for why the Far Realm
types don't come in. I expect that the main reason the elder gods don't
enter the prime plane IMC is less that then *can't* so much as that they
have no "reason* to. They hardly register each other's presence, they
have no particular reason to notice the prime planes as anything other
than an unusual arrangement of matter and energy. Since they don't have
any perception of time, they can look into the entire thing at once, see
it come into being and break down... same as everything else.
Dunno, hadn't really thought about it.
> The Astral is coterminous but not coexistent, and goes on forever in the
> standard D&D way, with lumps of astral rock and Githyanki raiders and
> all the cool things that normally inhabit the Astral. Unlike in
> standard D&D, the Astral is the only way to get to other cosmologies --
> it's essentially Planar Outer Space. It's impractical, though.
The Outer Planes IMC are... 'floating in amorphia', protected by the
gods within them. It's *possible* to travel through it directly to get
to an OP, but that's a trip best done only by gods of at least lesser
status, and probably only under duress -- even for them it isn't
particularly fun. Powerful enough spellcasters *might* be able to pull
it off, if they're quick... having the protective magics run out before
you get there would undoubtedly be unpleasant.
The 'easiest' way to get to other planes is through gates between them,
or by following the links between the planes (for instance, the 'Norse
planes' are bound to the mortal plane by Yggdrasil and Bifrost. If you
can find them, and survive using them, you can get to the various other
planes along that route. Doesn't help you get to Elysium, though.
> The Shadow... the Shadow is the twisted and distorted reflection of
> reality dimension, like the real world but evil. (Only no evil twins.)
> The Ethereal is just going out of phase with reality, so you can walk
> through walls and stuff looks foggy -- the Shadow is actually going
> someplace else that kinda looks like going out of phase with reality but
> really isn't. It's a bit like the Penumbra from World of Darkness
> games. "Shadow Walk" is a way to make the Plane of Shadow behave like
> hyperspace. This is not what the Shadow is fore.
I'm changing things slightly IMC. The Ethereal plane still has the
properties you've described (thanks! Treating it as being just slightly
out of phase with reality) is pretty much what I was looking for. It
can be used to get around certain obstacles in the prime, and to travel
around the prime (gets around certain obstacles) but is *only* being
slightly out of phase; I don't think I've got a deep ethereal.
I still want a place for Faerie. I was considering making it an Outer
Plane (it's certainly odd enough for one) but a parallel plane to the
prime that joins everything up (providing 'shortcuts', if you know how
to get around), and there's enough there to actually sustain life... and
since it *can* sustain life, there is life there (the fey). It tends to
be connected to the prime in reasonably strong places and to some extent
those with symbolic purposes (particularly doorways and the like).
> Were I ever to run a longer planar campaign, one of the subplots would
> probably be "What did the Plane of Shadow look like before the big
> planar cataclysm that shoved it way too close to the Negative Energy
> Plane happened?" I'm not sure what the answer'd be.
heh, I like it when players get interested enough in the setting to want
to figure out why things are as they are... especially when it's
something *I* haven't figured out yet. Usually I do know (I try to work
out why things are the way they are, so they make at least some sense),
but sometimes I leave stuff in I don't understand just because there are
some things that *don't* make sense.
> Gods don't come up in the above description because I tend to see them
> less as beings who create cosmologies and more as beings who spring into
> existence as a natural result of cosmologies springing into existence.
> Ward has three native gods (one permanently dead, who's death at the
> hands of Ward's wizard population was the cause of the metaphysical
> cataclysm, one in mourning, and one imprisoned) and an invader god from
> another cosmology.
Normally I fit the gods into the cosmology (that is, I look at the
cosmology and figure out where they go). This time around I was playing
a bit and came up with 'gods created *almost* everything... or at least
gave it form'. I'm fairly pleased with how it turned out.
Keith Davies
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:28:11 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwp...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> Now, regardless of your decision, you can tempt the players with
>> what was clearly a door to the outer planes at some time, but now it's a
>> twisted ruin.
>> You could even make it clearly one of the main entrances, which
>> was destroyed when the part of Paradise it lead to went *pop*.
>
> Good ideas, thanks.
I've decided to not have doors to the outer planes. It doesn't make
sense for the cosmology -- when the Hall was created there was only
*one* 'outer plane'. After that, the Hall is still too tightly bound to
the prime plane; the gods can't come here *anyway*, and have other means
for getting their servitors to the prime plane when they're interested.
It serves no particular purpose for them, so they don't use it.
It's possible to create new doors in the Hall (from the prime plane); I
suspect it *could* be possible from the outer planes, but I think it
won't be.
Stephenls
> That's a really good (and interesting) explanation for why the Far Realm
> types don't come in. I expect that the main reason the elder gods don't
> enter the prime plane IMC is less that then *can't* so much as that they
> have no "reason* to. They hardly register each other's presence, they
> have no particular reason to notice the prime planes as anything other
> than an unusual arrangement of matter and energy. Since they don't have
> any perception of time, they can look into the entire thing at once, see
> it come into being and break down... same as everything else.
> Dunno, hadn't really thought about it.
I like having my Far Realm be essentially the same Far Realm as appears
in every other D&D cosmology. My universe is very much in the same
universe as Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms.
> I still want a place for Faerie. I was considering making it an Outer
> Plane (it's certainly odd enough for one) but a parallel plane to the
> prime that joins everything up (providing 'shortcuts', if you know how
> to get around), and there's enough there to actually sustain life... and
> since it *can* sustain life, there is life there (the fey). It tends to
> be connected to the prime in reasonably strong places and to some extent
> those with symbolic purposes (particularly doorways and the like).
I have a Plane of Faerie as well. It's sort of halfway between a
Transitive and a Prime Material plane, and it's coterminous with Ward.
It's also coexistant with Ward in a few places, but in others it's not
-- in theory, you could use the Plane of Faerie to travel quickly from
place to place by finding two spots where the planes are coexistant but
the distance between those two spots in Faerie is less than it is in
Ward. In practice, this doesn't happen -- but the inhabitants of Faerie
do occasionally reverse the process and use Ward as a transitive plane
to get around Faerie quickly.
I also have a Spirit World as another coexistant transitive plane
(effectively a less evil Plane of Shadow), and the Plane of Mirrors as
another non-coexistant transitive plane. Ward is all abot the different
planes.
What I don't have is many outer planes. I think there's probably only
three. The niches the outer planes normally fill are filled with
different material planes, instead, like Fury, a sentient material plane
wracked by conflict between demons, daemons, and devils. I prefer if
the place normally occupied by Sigil is occupied instead by Ward itself
-- it's the one material plane that most closely connects all the
others, and because the planes used to be mostly cut off but are now
coming back together, it's about to go from "standard D&D medieval /
wild west / somewhat post apocalypse fantasy setting" to planar
metropolitan.
Keith Davies
> Keith Davies wrote:
>
>> That's a really good (and interesting) explanation for why the Far Realm
>> types don't come in. I expect that the main reason the elder gods don't
>> enter the prime plane IMC is less that then *can't* so much as that they
>> have no "reason* to. They hardly register each other's presence, they
>> have no particular reason to notice the prime planes as anything other
>> than an unusual arrangement of matter and energy. Since they don't have
>> any perception of time, they can look into the entire thing at once, see
>> it come into being and break down... same as everything else.
>
>> Dunno, hadn't really thought about it.
>
> I like having my Far Realm be essentially the same Far Realm as
> appears in every other D&D cosmology. My universe is very much in the
> same universe as Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms.
I don't think I've seen a detailed description of the Far Realm beyond
'weird shit lives here'. As evident from my description, my cosmology
doesn't really fit the default one. OTOH, it could probably accommodate
it -- the prime plane IMC isn't entirely static; different rules do
apply in different places.
There are places when the 'laws of physics' don't match everywhere else
There are even places where time travels at different rates, or even in
different directions (and I don't just mean 'positive and negative'...).
>> I still want a place for Faerie. I was considering making it an Outer
>> Plane (it's certainly odd enough for one) but a parallel plane to the
>> prime that joins everything up (providing 'shortcuts', if you know how
>> to get around), and there's enough there to actually sustain life... and
>> since it *can* sustain life, there is life there (the fey). It tends to
>> be connected to the prime in reasonably strong places and to some extent
>> those with symbolic purposes (particularly doorways and the like).
>
> I have a Plane of Faerie as well. It's sort of halfway between a
> Transitive and a Prime Material plane, and it's coterminous with Ward.
> It's also coexistant with Ward in a few places, but in others it's not
> -- in theory, you could use the Plane of Faerie to travel quickly from
> place to place by finding two spots where the planes are coexistant but
> the distance between those two spots in Faerie is less than it is in
> Ward. In practice, this doesn't happen -- but the inhabitants of Faerie
> do occasionally reverse the process and use Ward as a transitive plane
> to get around Faerie quickly.
I hadn't considered that, but it does make sense.
Someone with the knowledge (and force of will) can move around Faerie
faster than he would in the prime plane... even jumping worlds. OTOH --
as you mention -- there could be a couple of doorways between Faerie and
the prime that are only a couple of miles apart on the prime but
hundreds of miles apart in Faerie.
Hmm... maybe *that* explains the Faerie Ride -- the Court is moving to a
different place, and it's so much quicker to pass through the prime than
go the long way around... and since they do this on a regular basis,
they show up at predictable intervals....
LOL, for that matter, time doesn't always pass at the same rate in the
two planes; it could be just a bunch of Fey *commuting to work*!
> I also have a Spirit World as another coexistant transitive plane
> (effectively a less evil Plane of Shadow), and the Plane of Mirrors as
> another non-coexistant transitive plane. Ward is all abot the different
> planes.
>
> What I don't have is many outer planes. I think there's probably only
> three. The niches the outer planes normally fill are filled with
> different material planes, instead, like Fury, a sentient material plane
> wracked by conflict between demons, daemons, and devils. I prefer if
> the place normally occupied by Sigil is occupied instead by Ward itself
> -- it's the one material plane that most closely connects all the
> others, and because the planes used to be mostly cut off but are now
> coming back together, it's about to go from "standard D&D medieval /
> wild west / somewhat post apocalypse fantasy setting" to planar
> metropolitan.
Cool. The prime joins all the outer planes (except perhaps those that
were lost altogether in the Shattering). Part of the campaign premise
is that there are gods trying to reconstruct Paradise and complete their
Great Project (building the prime plane). They have to work through
mortal agents to find the other pantheons, determine their goals and
alliances, and try to join up again. Of course, there are others who
*don't* want this to happen (mostly those who got hosed in the
Shattering), so they have to work around each other.
Justisaur
news:slrnc7rj16.2s...@kjdavies.kjdavies.org:
> Someone with the knowledge (and force of will) can move around Faerie
> faster than he would in the prime plane... even jumping worlds. OTOH
> -- as you mention -- there could be a couple of doorways between
> Faerie and the prime that are only a couple of miles apart on the
> prime but hundreds of miles apart in Faerie.
>
> Hmm... maybe *that* explains the Faerie Ride -- the Court is moving to
> a different place, and it's so much quicker to pass through the prime
> than go the long way around... and since they do this on a regular
> basis, they show up at predictable intervals....
>
> LOL, for that matter, time doesn't always pass at the same rate in the
> two planes; it could be just a bunch of Fey *commuting to work*!
>
I love that. I ran a few sessions in a Faerie realm, in a plane hopping -
retrieve the parts of the broken mcguffin game. I came up with the idea
that time was REALLY different there. So every hour of game time I rolled
a d12 to see if the sun set or came up. Only changed phaze on a 1. And
there was some really wierd shit that happened if I rolled a 1 2 times in a
row. Really screwed with the players. I vaguely remember I had some rules
for how much travel they actually accomplished, etc.
One of the things that really dissapointed me with 3E's planes is they were
all blandified. All magic worked very differently on the different planes
in 1-2e. Now everything is pretty much sameo-sameo.
>> I also have a Spirit World as another coexistant transitive plane
>> (effectively a less evil Plane of Shadow), and the Plane of Mirrors
>> as another non-coexistant transitive plane. Ward is all abot the
>> different planes.
>>
IMC I don't have a astral plane (I used to but it was the net, and that was
destroyed), but rather than say nothing that works using the astral plane
doesn't work now, I just say it uses the etherial instead, which is the
spirit realm. I don't think you really need a shadow plane to use shadow
magic either, so it's gone. The outer and inner planes are all actual
planets orbiting the same sun, so they are all material in one way or
another. If you went to the planet of the afterlife you wouldn't find a
bunch of dead people wandering around though, you'd just find a frozen dead
world - with no air. Unless you went on to the etherial, there you'd find
hell & elisium etc. I do have a sort of 'far realm' but it is only
reachable through the very deep etherial, and no one who goes there
returns.
I'm thinking of a futre campain where there aren't any inner or outer
planes at all and they are sort of melded with the material. For instance
if you go over to the wildlands, it's like limbo. And there's a big pit
which is the abyss, etc.
Keith Davies
>
> One of the things that really dissapointed me with 3E's planes is they
> were all blandified. All magic worked very differently on the
> different planes in 1-2e. Now everything is pretty much sameo-sameo.
I appreciate that they largely codified how the planes affect things,
but yeah.
Fantasy Flight's _Planes and Portals_ has a nifty section on planar
traits. I don't have time to go into detail about them right now, but
I'm planning to use at least some of them and 'recode' planes IMC.
For instance, (ah bugger, book's upstairs -- details such as names may
be incorrect) each plane gets a number of major determinants (based on
alignment, elemental association, or other); within those there are a
number of traits that may or may not be present, and to varying degrees.
For instance, in a plane with a chaos determinant and the chaos
ascendant trait, creatures on the plane may get bumps to Strength and
Constitution (and something else... Fast Healing?). It might also
have a 'law-weakening' effect. These affect only creature with those
descriptors. Spells with the Chaos descriptor might get a bump to
caster level, save DC, or both (value depends on strength of trait).
There were a bunch of other ones, and the book included a number of
example 'worlds'. You may want to take a look at it.
> IMC I don't have a astral plane (I used to but it was the net, and
> that was destroyed), but rather than say nothing that works using the
> astral plane doesn't work now, I just say it uses the etherial
> instead, which is the spirit realm. I don't think you really need a
> shadow plane to use shadow magic either, so it's gone. The outer and
> inner planes are all actual planets orbiting the same sun, so they are
> all material in one way or another. If you went to the planet of the
> afterlife you wouldn't find a bunch of dead people wandering around
> though, you'd just find a frozen dead world - with no air. Unless you
> went on to the etherial, there you'd find hell & elisium etc. I do
> have a sort of 'far realm' but it is only reachable through the very
> deep etherial, and no one who goes there returns.
I've got an old (draft) description of planes for a campaign at
http://www.kjdavies.org/rpg/planes.pdf ; a friend of mine saw the
description of Faerie and said, 'uhhh... don't make us go there,
*please*'... but when he saw the astral plane (vaguely Far Realmish) his
reaction was more like 'cool! I wanna go!'.
He needs help, I think.
> I'm thinking of a futre campain where there aren't any inner or outer
> planes at all and they are sort of melded with the material. For
> instance if you go over to the wildlands, it's like limbo. And
> there's a big pit which is the abyss, etc.
So your world would be fairly primal, then.
Werebat
analogous to Earth's Jurassic period, but all of the animals were
actually ambulatory fungi.
Then there was a plane of tapioca pudding, just a vast sea of it, through
which swam fat, maggotlike beluga whales.
I like using the Far Realm in my games, although obviously you can't
have the PCs actually *go* there. Did anyone else see the Hellboy movie
and think that Hell was actually the Far Realm?
- Ron ^*^
Decaying Atheist
"Werebat" <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote in message news:407EB8...@cox.net...
I saw Hellboy and the final monster reminded me of a creature in the module
"Cold Visitor."
"Cold Visitor" is a module that attempts to bring "The Thing" by John
Carpenter into a fantasy setting.
If anyone is interested it can be purchased at Rpgnow.com
Hell or the place where Hellboy came from was definately a fragment of some
sort of planer prison.
I'd rather not say too much because I don't want to ruin the movie for
anybody.
--
Decaying Atheist ICQ: 161624095
Current Project: N/A
11:05:33 AM ---- Thursday, April 15, 2004
"To communicate with Mars, converse with spirits, To report the behaviour of
the sea monster, Describe the horoscope, haruspicate or scry, Observe
disease in signatures." (T.S.Eliot)
Stephenls
> I like using the Far Realm in my games, although obviously you can't
> have the PCs actually *go* there. Did anyone else see the Hellboy movie
> and think that Hell was actually the Far Realm?
The impression I got was it was just some arbitrary point in space with
a big set o' crystals. Maybe in the Oort Cloud. No alternate
dimensions involved.
Elfbard
>I saw Hellboy and the final monster reminded me of a creature in the module
>"Cold Visitor."
>
>"Cold Visitor" is a module that attempts to bring "The Thing" by John
>Carpenter into a fantasy setting.
It's clobbering time!!
hehe jk
Werebat
Not that Thing...
Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got into a
fight, who would win?
My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
- Ron ^*^
anxious triffid
> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got
> into a fight, who would win?
>
> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
If the Thing won, then it would be able to imitate the Thing in its next
fight. So who would win in a fight between the Thing imititating the Thing
and the Thing?
Decaying Atheist
"Elfbard" <elf...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:4n0v70l2qcgavvkp9...@4ax.com...
Gotta love The Fantastic Four.
--
Decaying Atheist ICQ: 161624095
Current Project: N/A
9:17:49 AM ---- Friday, April 16, 2004
"The POP3 server service depends on the SMTP server service, which failed to
start because of the following error: The operation completed successfully."
(Windows NT Server v3.51)
Decaying Atheist
"Werebat" <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote in message news:407FF1...@cox.net...
My money is on The Thing. The creature seems to be able to invade nearly
anything.
--
Decaying Atheist ICQ: 161624095
Current Project: N/A
9:18:49 AM ---- Friday, April 16, 2004
"There is a wicked pretense that one has been informed. But no such thing
has truly occurred! A mere slogan, an empty litany. No arguments are heard,
no evidence is weighed. It isn't news at all, only a source of amusement for
idlers." (Gibson-Sterling, The Difference Engine)
Decaying Atheist
"anxious triffid" <anxiousINFEAROFSPAM@anxioustriffid@fserve.co.uk> wrote in
message news:Xns94CD8DFB81089an...@217.32.252.50...
I'd go with Fantastic Four Thing in this fight.
--
Decaying Atheist ICQ: 161624095
Current Project: N/A
Sea Wasp
Definitely the Thing. Ben Grimm never gives up.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Justisaur
news:f4Rfc.2150$2e6.567@lakeread01:
>
> "Werebat" <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:407FF1...@cox.net...
>> Elfbard wrote:
>> >
>> > >I saw Hellboy and the final monster reminded me of a creature in
>> > >the
> module
>> > >"Cold Visitor."
>> > >
>> > >"Cold Visitor" is a module that attempts to bring "The Thing" by
>> > >John Carpenter into a fantasy setting.
>> >
>> > It's clobbering time!!
>>
>> Not that Thing...
>>
>> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got
>> into a fight, who would win?
>>
>> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
>>
>> - Ron ^*^
>
> My money is on The Thing. The creature seems to be able to invade
> nearly anything.
>
2nd that if you mean John Carpenter's version, not the original, or the
commic book one.
Decaying Atheist
"Justisaur" <just...@removespam.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94CDAD838F...@204.127.204.17...
> "Decaying Atheist" <har...@coxdot.net> wrote in
> news:f4Rfc.2150$2e6.567@lakeread01:
>
> >
> > "Werebat" <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote in message
> > news:407FF1...@cox.net...
> >> Elfbard wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >I saw Hellboy and the final monster reminded me of a creature in
> >> > >the
> > module
> >> > >"Cold Visitor."
> >> > >
> >> > >"Cold Visitor" is a module that attempts to bring "The Thing" by
> >> > >John Carpenter into a fantasy setting.
> >> >
> >> > It's clobbering time!!
> >>
> >> Not that Thing...
> >>
> >> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got
> >> into a fight, who would win?
> >>
> >> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
> >>
> >> - Ron ^*^
> >
> > My money is on The Thing. The creature seems to be able to invade
> > nearly anything.
> >
>
> 2nd that if you mean John Carpenter's version, not the original, or the
> commic book one.
Yeah Carpenter's version.
Arivne
> Elfbard wrote:
>> Decaying Atheist wrote:
>
<snip>
>
>>> "Cold Visitor" is a module that attempts to bring "The Thing"
>>> by John Carpenter into a fantasy setting.
>
>> It's clobbering time!!
>
> Not that Thing...
>
> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got into a
> fight, who would win?
>
> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
Ron, you are wrong *again*, as usual! Why do you insist on
embarrassing yourself in public like this?
Obviously, in a fight between the Thing and the Thing, the *Thing*
would win!
Seriously though, folks...
In a straight fight, the Fantastic Four Thing would win, as he is much
stronger and effectively invulnerable to the John Carpenter Thing's
physical attacks. However, unless he knew about (or discovered) the JC
Thing's vulnerability to fire, he couldn't permanently destroy it.
Sooner or later, the JC Thing would engulf the FF Thing, manage to get
some of itself into his body (probably through his open mouth as he
says something) and take him over. Game over, man.
So: If the FF Thing uses fire to stop the JC Thing's regeneration, he
wins.
If not, the JC Thing (eventually) wins.
Of course, I could be just trolling. :)
Arivne
Werebat
>
> Werebat <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote:
> > Elfbard wrote:
> >> Decaying Atheist wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >>> "Cold Visitor" is a module that attempts to bring "The Thing"
> >>> by John Carpenter into a fantasy setting.
> >
> >> It's clobbering time!!
> >
> > Not that Thing...
> >
> > Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got into a
> > fight, who would win?
> >
> > My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
>
> Ron, you are wrong *again*, as usual! Why do you insist on
> embarrassing yourself in public like this?
>
> Obviously, in a fight between the Thing and the Thing, the *Thing*
> would win!
Man, you're the FIRST person to get the joke, and run with it!
You get a gold star!
- Ron ^*^
Arivne
>
>>> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing
>>> got into a fight, who would win?
>
>>> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
>
>> Ron, you are wrong *again*, as usual! Why do you insist on
>> embarrassing yourself in public like this?
>
>> Obviously, in a fight between the Thing and the Thing, the *Thing*
>> would win!
>
> Man, you're the FIRST person to get the joke, and run with it!
>
> You get a gold star!
<preens shamelessly>
I get annoyed when people don't even realize that I'm making a joke,
so I feel for you. Keep the faith! :)
Arivne
Arian
> Werebat <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Arivne wrote:
>>
>>>Werebat <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
> <snip Fantastic Four Thing and John Carpenter Thing>
>
>>>>Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing
>>>>got into a fight, who would win?
>>
>>>>My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
>>
>>>Ron, you are wrong *again*, as usual! Why do you insist on
>>>embarrassing yourself in public like this?
>>
>>>Obviously, in a fight between the Thing and the Thing, the *Thing*
>>>would win!
>>
>>Man, you're the FIRST person to get the joke, and run with it!
I got it; I just didn't feel any need to run with it.
> I get annoyed when people don't even realize that I'm making a joke,
I appreciate your jokes, Arivne, even if I just grin and read on. Since
you're my faithful Djinn, I'll make a point of laughing more audibly in
future.
--
Arian
Address me by name at North-net (with no hyphen), a 3-letter company
trading in the great south land.
Arivne
> Arivne wrote:
>
<snip japery>
>
>> I get annoyed when people don't even realize that I'm making a joke,
>
> I appreciate your jokes, Arivne, even if I just grin and read on. Since
> you're my faithful Djinn, I'll make a point of laughing more audibly in
> future.
Thank you, my Lady. As always, you are the soul of kindness. :)
Arivne
Silveraxe
>
> Not that Thing...
>
> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing got into a
> fight, who would win?
>
> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
That's easy. The Thing, of course.
Now how about a fight between Thing and the Thing :)
Silveraxe.
Arivne
> Werebat <rpoi...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Which brings to mind a question... If the Thing and the Thing
>> got into a fight, who would win?
>
>> My money is on the Thing. What do you think?
>
> That's easy. The Thing, of course.
Hey Ron, looks like someone else got your joke! :)
> Now how about a fight between Thing and the Thing :)
For those of you not up on your American TV/movie trivia: "Thing" was
a crawling claw - er, I mean animated, intelligent hand in the "The
Addams Family" 1960's TV show (and later movies).
*Either* version of The Thing would crush Thing into paste in about
two seconds. Sorry about that, chief. ;-)
Arivne
Silveraxe
> avidrol...@yahoo.com (Silveraxe) wrote:
>
> > Now how about a fight between Thing and the Thing :)
>
> For those of you not up on your American TV/movie trivia: "Thing" was
> a crawling claw - er, I mean animated, intelligent hand in the "The
> Addams Family" 1960's TV show (and later movies).
Power Word: Duh!
I knew that and that's what the smilie at the end was for.
> *Either* version of The Thing would crush Thing into paste in about
> two seconds. Sorry about that, chief. ;-)
Are you sure?
Remember that Thing can hold its own in a fencing match with Gomez :)
OTOH (hah, pun there. Go on, groan!) wouldn't the alien Thing feel
stupid for taking over a disembodied hand walking on two fingers?
Now I have this picture of Gomez being poked by Morticia with red hot
wires to check for alien infestation.
"Oooh, that tickles ... Cara mia!"
Silveraxe
Arivne
> ari...@cox.net (Arivne) wrote:
>> avidrol...@yahoo.com (Silveraxe) wrote:
>
>>> Now how about a fight between Thing and the Thing :)
>
>> For those of you not up on your American TV/movie trivia:
>> "Thing" was a crawling claw - er, I mean animated, intelligent
>> hand in the "The Addams Family" 1960's TV show (and later movies).
>
> Power Word: Duh!
> I knew that and that's what the smilie at the end was for.
>
I know. :) I was explaining for the benefit of any of our non-American
NG members who didn't get the joke.
>> *Either* version of The Thing would crush Thing into paste in about
>> two seconds. Sorry about that, chief. ;-)
>
> Are you sure?
> Remember that Thing can hold its own in a fencing match with Gomez :)
The alien Thing would use its tentacles to grab Thing (as it did with
the sled dogs in the movie). Thing's speed could only save it if it
ran away, in which case it would lose the fight by default. It could
only win if it knew and took advantage of the alien Thing's
vulnerability to fire.
The orange Thing might not be able to kill Thing immediately, but he's
immune to any physical attack Thing can make and would eventually get
in a lucky hit.
> OTOH (hah, pun there. Go on, groan!) wouldn't the alien Thing feel
> stupid for taking over a disembodied hand walking on two fingers?
But think of the infiltration possibilities!
> Now I have this picture of Gomez being poked by Morticia with red hot
> wires to check for alien infestation.
> "Oooh, that tickles ... Cara mia!"
Where's Elfbard when you really need her? <grin>
Arivne
Rob Singers
> Where's Elfbard when you really need her? <grin>
Desperately reading slashfic for new gags because the last month in rgfd
and rgmw has used her 18yo's experience of smut. :-)
--
Rob Singers
"All your Ron are belong to us"
Arian
> avidrol...@yahoo.com (Silveraxe) wrote:
>
>>ari...@cox.net (Arivne) wrote:
>>
>>>avidrol...@yahoo.com (Silveraxe) wrote:
>>
>>>>Now how about a fight between Thing and the Thing :)
>>
>>>For those of you not up on your American TV/movie trivia:
>>>"Thing" was a crawling claw - er, I mean animated, intelligent
>>>hand in the "The Addams Family" 1960's TV show (and later movies).
>>
>>Power Word: Duh!
>>I knew that and that's what the smilie at the end was for.
>
> <snip>
>
> I know. :) I was explaining for the benefit of any of our non-American
> NG members who didn't get the joke.
Me, for example. I got the idea, but extra details never go amiss.
Thanks, O Djinn! :-)
Firelock
> > ari...@cox.net (Arivne) wrote:
> >> avidrol...@yahoo.com (Silveraxe) wrote:
> >> *Either* version of The Thing would crush Thing into paste in about
> >> two seconds. Sorry about that, chief. ;-)
> >
> > Are you sure?
> > Remember that Thing can hold its own in a fencing match with Gomez :)
>
> The alien Thing would use its tentacles to grab Thing (as it did with
> the sled dogs in the movie). Thing's speed could only save it if it
> ran away, in which case it would lose the fight by default. It could
> only win if it knew and took advantage of the alien Thing's
> vulnerability to fire.
Ah, but you forget, Thing is crafty, agile and tenacious. It is
entirely possible that the first time the Thing sees it, Thing
is pulling a rope that douses it with gasoline.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet