3.5 rules for new Swarms?
Mark
rigorous way of calculating its stats than comparing a Rat to a Rat
Swarm and scaling my 1d10 HD, CR 1/3 tiny flying creature creature by
16 the same way, making it 16d10HD (and therefore doing 4d6 damage a
round) and CR 5? I'm not convinced 4 5th level characters would be
able to deal 88 points of damage to a swarm fast enough for it to
count as simple encounter, so something is wrong there and I suspect
its the CR.
Mark
snex
since the swarm is composed of tiny creatures, it is not immune to
weapon damage. the party should have little problem with it.
Mark
32-point build much? :-)
Unless they all have bludgeoning weapons, it is taking half damage.
With various immunities and the ability to do an automatic 4d6 a
round, i would think this was closer to (off the top of my head) a
Juvenile Black Dragon (which is deliberately under-rated at CR 7). A
better example might be a 7th level warlock, that could deal out
comparable damage in a round and have a few tricks to compensate for
the swarm traits, but would be nowhere near 88hp.
Mark
snex
dont forget that swarms are slow moving and unless its made of flying
creatures, its stuck to the ground. unless the party is composed of
halflings in full plate, they can just outrun it. a wizard at level 5
could be flying out of the way and summoning a hellhound to use its
breath weapon, or a dretch with DR to the swarm, or an air elemental
to use its whirlwind form as a gust of wind or... well you get the
point hopefully.
the fighters can just run away while shooting arrows at it.
Mark
Thanks for your reply: those are some good tactics: I'm making the
mistake of considering how dangerous it would be if *my* party use
their normal tactic of buffing the sole melee character to the limit
and letting her go with a slashing weapon, which isn't so good in this
case, so while it might be tough for them, *that* doesn't affect the
CR.
However the creature in question (I don't want to say what it is in
case my players read this) has 40' clumsy flying, so I imagine the
swarm has the same (though you would think there would be some
emergent behaviour like losing 10' of distance for one level improved
movement: this is why I want to see a template, let alone not knowing
what its AC is). Outrunning might not be an option.
I think I'll base its CR on how it compares to a Hellwasp Swarm, which
looks to be the only top-tier Swarm in the SRD.
I wonder how these guys worked it out....
http://www.bearswarm.com/resources/dungeons-and-dragons-35-brown-bear-swarm
Baird Stafford
<1e334e44-ab95-4223...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Mark <rin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder how these guys worked it out....
> http://www.bearswarm.com/resources/dungeons-and-dragons-35-brown-bear-swarm
For one thing, the whole idea is full of absurdities.
> Brown Bear Swarms are dense masses of large creatures that would not be
> particularly dangerous in small groups, but can be terrible foes when
> gathered in sufficient numbers.
Sufficient numbers, in the case of brown bears, consist of one cub and
one mother. Whoever wrote this bumpf has never lived in bear territory,
or they wouldn't have perpetrated this abomination.
> Vulnerabilities Of Swarms
> Swarms are extremely difficult to fight with physical attacks. However, they
> have a few special vulnerabilities, as follows:
Why? A single bear is at least size M and can be size L. A swarm of
spiders can climb or leap onto a blade and just cling there or move up
it to bit the wielder, but a swarm of bears (ain't so sech critter!)
will get in one another's way if they try to dodge *and* a single
individual is big enough to take damage from either slashing or piercing
weapons.
> A lit torch swung as an improvised weapon deals 1d3 points of fire damage per
> hit.
To a single individual. Bears are too large for it to affect a swarm as
a whlole.
> A weapon with a special ability such as flaming or frost deals its full
> energy damage with each hit, even if the weaponıs normal damage canıt affect
> the swarm.
See above regarding size of critter vs. kind of weapon.
> A lit lantern can be used as a thrown weapon, dealing 1d4 points of fire
> damage to all creatures in squares adjacent to where it breaks.
Again, to a single individual - and since a bear probably occupies and
least one and quite possibly two squares, "squares adjacent to where it
breaks" doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot.
Finally, bears are rather solitary creatures and omnivores to boot. The
likelihood of groups large enough to constitute a "swarm" gathering in
one place and remaining cohesive enough to constitute a threat without
fighting among themselves - to the death, some of them, given the
limited space - is vanishingly small.
At least the author(s) didn't claim that bears only swarm only during
deepest winter....
And this is one time that the plaint that "but this is a *fantasy game!
It doesn't have to match reality" won't do it for me. A fantasy game
may not have to match reality, but I do require it to adhere at least to
the _possible_!
Baird
--
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and in a divided country
that's enough to win elections. -Bill Steele
Rick Pikul
> In article
> <1e334e44-ab95-4223...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> Mark <rin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder how these guys worked it out....
>> http://www.bearswarm.com/resources/dungeons-and-dragons-35-brown-bear-swarm
>
> For one thing, the whole idea is full of absurdities.
OK, _someone_ deserves a Hook, Line and Sinker award.
Now if I can just figure out who.
--
Chakat Firepaw - Inventor & Scientist (Mad)
Jim Seymour
> I wonder how these guys worked it out....
> http://www.bearswarm.com/resources/dungeons-and-dragons-35-brown-bear-swarm
While this is certainly a joke, there are rules for "mobs" published in
DMG2 (p.59). They are essentially swarms of creatures larger than Tiny.
--
Jim Seymour
Tetsubo
You mean that the DMG II has a useful purpose?
--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller
BLUP
tussock
> Baird Stafford wrote:
>> Mark wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder how these guys worked it out....
http://www.bearswarm.com/resources/dungeons-and-dragons-35-brown-bear-
swarm
>> For one thing, the whole idea is full of absurdities.
>
> OK, _someone_ deserves a Hook, Line and Sinker award.
>
> Now if I can just figure out who.
My bet is it's you, Rick. Well done Baird.
--
tussock
I'm like a box of chocolates; you never know what you're gunna get.
tussock
I think at 4d6 and 40' flying move you're closer to the CR 6 or even
CR 7 swarms. If it was a slow ground swarm with no specials you're more
like CR 5. And no, there are no precice rules: templates that change
things that much are all terribly borken when you apply them.
Rick Pikul
> Rick Pikul wrote:
>> Baird Stafford wrote:
Re:
http://www.bearswarm.com/resources/dungeons-and-dragons-35-brown-bear-swarm
>>> For one thing, the whole idea is full of absurdities.
>>
>> OK, _someone_ deserves a Hook, Line and Sinker award.
>>
>> Now if I can just figure out who.
>
> My bet is it's you, Rick. Well done Baird.
First of all, the HL&S award goes to the guy who made the original post,
not the ones who may have responded.
Second, I figured that Baird's post was far more likely to be the real
winner, (based on a 'well crafted' win), but it was worth leaving open the
possibility of an 'I don't believe it' win for the bear swarm itself.
(One of the problems with explaining the HL&S award was always that there
were two completely different ways to win, one of which did not actually
require anyone to respond.)
tussock
> (One of the problems with explaining the HL&S award [...])
You can send my trophy to my slowmail addy. TIA.
--
tussock
rob_j...@42ndroom.com
just took all the text from the Brown Bear and from a Spider Swarm and
mixed it up. See, its a novelty creature. Not meant to be used in a
game thats taking anything serious (rules included). Its written to be
an absurdity. A joke, a gag, a laugh.
I'm part of an RPG podcast called The Bear Swarm! Podcast. We would
always talk about the actual absurdity of putting 1st level
adventurers up against Swarms so we figured if we're going to be
silly, lets just ramp it up to ludicrous levels. Hence the name of our
show and posting the silly stats for a Bear Swarm.
And I'll say it once again just for effect, A Bear Swarm is a stupid
idea. Its written with no serious consideration of the rules, but for
humor. At the end of the day, its a game and if I can't get a good
laugh out of it from time to time... In my book, I'm doing something
wrong.
:D
-Rob.
www.BearSwarm.com
rob_j...@42ndroom.com
for you Baird. Hahaha
-Rob.
www.BearSwarm.com
Baird Stafford
<9855113d-fa03-4399...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
rob_j...@42ndroom.com wrote:
> P.S. - I've updated the original post with a disclaimed. Just for you
> Baird :D
Thanks. And I'm bound to admit I was suckered.
rob_j...@42ndroom.com
> rob_just...@42ndroom.com wrote on [Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:58:38 -0700 (PDT)]:
>
> > P.S. - I've updated the original post with a disclaimed. Just for you
> > Baird :D
>
> >www.BearSwarm.com
>
> No you didn't, you quoted a couple of posts and added no new discernable
> content, and posted this same message twice with some different wording.
No, the original post on the Bear Swarm! site.. not the rash of mis-
posts I had here... First time using this group thing and my browser
kept loosing my post... or so I thought.... *shrugs* Sorry about all
the weird postings....