3.5e: Polymorph Any Object question
SeaHen
an Outsider, or another creature that's Always a particular alignment,
does the target switch to that alignment? (Could the heroes deal with
a powerful fiend by polymorphing it into a celestial?)
Tetsubo
I would rule no. The form is changing, not the persona of that creature
remains the same. You are in essence switching the hardware while
running the same software.
--
Tetsubo
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Ubiquitous
wrote:
>SeaHen wrote:
>> When Polymorph Any Object is cast to turn an object or creature into
>> an Outsider, or another creature that's Always a particular alignment,
>> does the target switch to that alignment? (Could the heroes deal with
>> a powerful fiend by polymorphing it into a celestial?)
>
> I would rule no. The form is changing, not the persona of that creature
> remains the same. You are in essence switching the hardware while
> running the same software.
But an outsider of X alignment is the very essence of that alignment!
Something's gotta give!
Seebs
> But an outsider of X alignment is the very essence of that alignment!
> Something's gotta give!
That's what gives. Outsiders of a particular alignment are still CAPABLE
of changing, they just usually don't... But even so, it's the outsider,
not the body, that's aligned.
-s
--
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Harold Groot
>On 2009-12-28, Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net> wrote:
>> But an outsider of X alignment is the very essence of that alignment!
>> Something's gotta give!
>
>That's what gives. Outsiders of a particular alignment are still CAPABLE
>of changing, they just usually don't... But even so, it's the outsider,
>not the body, that's aligned.
>
If you take a demon and use POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT to change its form
into that of a celestial, it would seem to me that you are not capable
of actually infusing that new form with the "essence" of that plane.
Heck, while you grant the new form the extraordinary attacks
(constricts, Improved Grab, Poison) you can't even grant the new form
the extraordinary qualities that aren't attacks (like blindsense, fast
healing, regeneration). Nor can POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT grant the new
form the spell-like or supernatural abilities one would expect it to
have. Aside from changing the INT score to be appropriate to the new
form, POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT has the same abilities and limitations as
POLYMORPH (well, OK, the duration is different and the subject doesn't
have to be willing - but what the spell grants or doesn't grant is
still based on POLYMORPH except for INT).
POLYMORPH and POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT and even SHAPECHANGE only create
imperfect copies of the real thing. (SHAPECHANGE gives you all the
extraordinary qualities and the supernatural qualities but still
doesn't give you the spell-like qualities.) POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT can
turn something into iron but it can't turn it into cold iron. If you
were trying to copy a cold iron sword you'd get an regular-iron
imperfect copy without that special quality you might desparately
need.
Back in earlier editions of the game the spells worked somewhat
differently. In 1E/2E there was a spell POLYMORPH OTHER which doesn't
exist in 3.5E. In 1E/2E POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT used POLYMORPH OTHER
(rather than POLYMORPH) as a base. With POLYMORPH OTHER (and thus
POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT) you =could= change the personality and mentality
of the subject. It would eventually fail an INT check and actually
become what it had been changed into in all respects. Prior to
failing the INT check it would have its own personality and would not
have the magical abilities of what it was turned into. After failing
the daily INT check and essentially becoming a "real" creature of that
type it =would= have the magical abilities as well as the personality
of a creature of that type.
So if someone is recalling earlier days and thinking "We =used= to use
POLYMORPH ANY OBJECT that way....", well, yes, back in 1E/2E the
tactic would (eventually) work. You'd have an evil-aligned "imperfect
copy of a celestial" for a while that would eventually become a
good-aligned "perfect copy". But that's because the spell
descriptions specifically stated that the personality would change
under certain conditions. There is no such mention in the spell
descriptions in 3.5.
Also, in the Monster Manual Glossary under Alignment it says:
"Always: The creature is born with the indicated alignment. The
creature may have a heriditary predisposition to the alignment or come
from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to
change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare
exceptions."
This says that it is POSSIBLE for an evil-aligned celestial to exist,
it's just incredibly rare. So having the true form of a celestial
does not guarentee good alignment even if you actually DID have a
perfect copy. (And no matter the current form of the polymorphed
demon, he still COMES FROM The Abyss.)
Also - how would we have the achetype of a "fallen angel" if they
couldn't be anything else but good? Oh, I'll grant you that such
beings usually metamorphize into something else with time. From
Champions of Ruin we have the example Malkizid. He started out as a
solar. He got seduced by Araushnee (later called Lolth) into
betraying Corellon Larethian. When his rebellion failed he was
branded and cast down into hell. He arose as a devil prince with a
somewhat changed form. His feathered wings now "shed shabby looking
grey feathers" and his hands and feet are "grey with scabby bird-like
talons." So he no longer has that pure solar form - but during his
rebellion he did. So his form did not dictate his alignment.
Rick Pikul
> SeaHen wrote:
>
>> When Polymorph Any Object is cast to turn an object or creature into
>> an Outsider, or another creature that's Always a particular alignment,
>> does the target switch to that alignment? (Could the heroes deal with
>> a powerful fiend by polymorphing it into a celestial?)
>
> I would rule no. The form is changing, not the persona of that creature
> remains the same. You are in essence switching the hardware while
> running the same software.
Polymorph spells do not change alignment or personality, this is both from
official rulings and specifically addressed in the RAW.
However:
Polymorph spells _do_ change type and subtype. Polymorphing that fiend
into a celestial will give it the Good subtype and remove its Evil
subtype. This may, or may not, be useful.
--
Chakat Firepaw - Inventor & Scientist (Mad)
Seebs
> Polymorph spells _do_ change type and subtype. Polymorphing that fiend
> into a celestial will give it the Good subtype and remove its Evil
> subtype. This may, or may not, be useful.
Creating the interesting result that it's fairly easy to create a thing
which detects as both good and evil.