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Magister
Feb 10, 2013, 12:34:05 PM2/10/13
to
I'm starting a new fantasy campaign, and thus giving some thought to what
to tell players (to persuade them to join, to dissuade them if they're
not a good match, and for the benefit of eventually playing). Past
campaigns have succeeded and failed more or less by chance, and I thought
that this time I would try planning a little more.
My first concern is telling players things that they should find out by
playing; discovery is part of the appeal of a new campaign. So there's
the problem of providing enough common knowledge that players can make
meaningful character creation choices, but not spoilers.
The second concern is to create some cohesion in purpose among the player
characters; I can't imagine a successful campaign where players aren't
on the same page.
The campaign is heroic fantasy, and not particularly exotic despite the use
of my own rules; the player characters are the good guys, both because it's
unpleasant to referee the bad guys and harder to motivate adventures.
Any advice or comments appreciated.
--
Magister
to tell players (to persuade them to join, to dissuade them if they're
not a good match, and for the benefit of eventually playing). Past
campaigns have succeeded and failed more or less by chance, and I thought
that this time I would try planning a little more.
My first concern is telling players things that they should find out by
playing; discovery is part of the appeal of a new campaign. So there's
the problem of providing enough common knowledge that players can make
meaningful character creation choices, but not spoilers.
The second concern is to create some cohesion in purpose among the player
characters; I can't imagine a successful campaign where players aren't
on the same page.
The campaign is heroic fantasy, and not particularly exotic despite the use
of my own rules; the player characters are the good guys, both because it's
unpleasant to referee the bad guys and harder to motivate adventures.
Any advice or comments appreciated.
--
Magister
Simon Smith
Feb 12, 2013, 12:03:59 PM2/12/13
to
In message <7c356e82-cc43-4a94...@googlegroups.com>
First thought; the more you tell them, the more of a handle they will have
on what to expect, even if some of the things you tell them are actually red
herrings. And in addition, they won't necessarily remember the precise
details of whatever you tell them. This kind of material probably won't make
proper 'sense' to them until they have gotten into the game a bit, so you
can expect a few misunderstandings and misrememberings. To help players get
a handle on character creation, you might create a few sample NPCs - the
might well be reusable as mentors, rivals and the like so the effort
shouldn't be wasted.
These days I always try to start by tagging things with a 'handle' that uses
genre knowledge the players already have. For example, 'Start by thinking of
the Conan movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but bear in mind that the
greatest heroes in this world have the wire-fu skills of Crouching Tiger
Hidden Dragon or Hero'. Something like that. 1-3 sentences that boil down
the essence of the world to the 2-3 books/films/animes/comics/historical
eras/earth cultures that it has most in common with. Then elaborate from
that basic framework. I do advise making sure one of the references is to a
film or even a TV series because that immediately introduces a rich - and,
importantly, /shared/ - visual 'vocabulary'. You could then start describing
a monster as 'like those gigantic war mammoths from Lord of the Rings, but
scaled back down to the size of a normal elephant' - things like that.
You say 'heroic fantasy' - so what's the intended tone? Lord of the Rings?
Xena? Arthurian? Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? (I'm sure I spelled Fafhrd
wrong...) The tone in particular is a very useful hook to give the players.
As far as giving the characters common purpose, it's a very good idea to
require each character to have a connection with at least one other
player-character, and/or a suitable NPC of your choosing. Giving the
characters a pre-existing link saves them all having to meet in a tavern in
the time-honoured manner. By plumbing them into the world before the game
starts you speed things up in so many helpful ways, and give the players a
framework to put their back stories on.
There, obvious stuff, but a start.
--
Simon Smith
When emailing me, please use my preferred email address, which is on my web
site at http://www.simon-smith.org
on what to expect, even if some of the things you tell them are actually red
herrings. And in addition, they won't necessarily remember the precise
details of whatever you tell them. This kind of material probably won't make
proper 'sense' to them until they have gotten into the game a bit, so you
can expect a few misunderstandings and misrememberings. To help players get
a handle on character creation, you might create a few sample NPCs - the
might well be reusable as mentors, rivals and the like so the effort
shouldn't be wasted.
These days I always try to start by tagging things with a 'handle' that uses
genre knowledge the players already have. For example, 'Start by thinking of
the Conan movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but bear in mind that the
greatest heroes in this world have the wire-fu skills of Crouching Tiger
Hidden Dragon or Hero'. Something like that. 1-3 sentences that boil down
the essence of the world to the 2-3 books/films/animes/comics/historical
eras/earth cultures that it has most in common with. Then elaborate from
that basic framework. I do advise making sure one of the references is to a
film or even a TV series because that immediately introduces a rich - and,
importantly, /shared/ - visual 'vocabulary'. You could then start describing
a monster as 'like those gigantic war mammoths from Lord of the Rings, but
scaled back down to the size of a normal elephant' - things like that.
You say 'heroic fantasy' - so what's the intended tone? Lord of the Rings?
Xena? Arthurian? Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? (I'm sure I spelled Fafhrd
wrong...) The tone in particular is a very useful hook to give the players.
As far as giving the characters common purpose, it's a very good idea to
require each character to have a connection with at least one other
player-character, and/or a suitable NPC of your choosing. Giving the
characters a pre-existing link saves them all having to meet in a tavern in
the time-honoured manner. By plumbing them into the world before the game
starts you speed things up in so many helpful ways, and give the players a
framework to put their back stories on.
There, obvious stuff, but a start.
--
Simon Smith
When emailing me, please use my preferred email address, which is on my web
site at http://www.simon-smith.org
Magister
Feb 14, 2013, 8:53:53 PM2/14/13
to
On Feb 12, 11:03 am, Simon Smith <simon_smith_n...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <7c356e82-cc43-4a94...@googlegroups.com>
that is
explicitly unreliable; "there are stories of ...", which is all
hearsay.
> These days I always try to start by tagging things with a 'handle' that uses
> genre knowledge the players already have. For example, 'Start by thinking of
> the Conan movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but bear in mind that the
> greatest heroes in this world have the wire-fu skills of Crouching Tiger
> Hidden Dragon or Hero'. Something like that. 1-3 sentences that boil down
> the essence of the world to the 2-3 books/films/animes/comics/historical
> eras/earth cultures that it has most in common with. Then elaborate from
> that basic framework. I do advise making sure one of the references is to a
> film or even a TV series because that immediately introduces a rich - and,
> importantly, /shared/ - visual 'vocabulary'. You could then start describing
> a monster as 'like those gigantic war mammoths from Lord of the Rings, but
> scaled back down to the size of a normal elephant' - things like that.
>
> You say 'heroic fantasy' - so what's the intended tone? Lord of the Rings?
> Xena? Arthurian? Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? (I'm sure I spelled Fafhrd
> wrong...) The tone in particular is a very useful hook to give the players.
The closest I have come is along the lines of the Odyssey, Jason and
the
Argonauts, and similar Greek mythology. But that covers only a small
range of potential player characters; Greek heroes don't tend to be
mages, thieves and so on. And the world is rather different than
that;
the gods don't take such an active role in the stories.
This may be an indication that the campaign is not as well thought out
as I imagined.
> As far as giving the characters common purpose, it's a very good idea to
> require each character to have a connection with at least one other
> player-character, and/or a suitable NPC of your choosing. Giving the
> characters a pre-existing link saves them all having to meet in a tavern in
> the time-honoured manner. By plumbing them into the world before the game
> starts you speed things up in so many helpful ways, and give the players a
> framework to put their back stories on.
I like the idea of connections to NPCs; it ties in well with the idea
of
creating some sample NPCs (both adventurers and non-adventurers).
Thanks!
--
Magister
> In message <7c356e82-cc43-4a94...@googlegroups.com>
> Magister <mr.magis...@zoho.com> wrote:
> First thought; the more you tell them, the more of a handle they will have
> on what to expect, even if some of the things you tell them are actually red
> herrings. And in addition, they won't necessarily remember the precise
> details of whatever you tell them. This kind of material probably won't make
> proper 'sense' to them until they have gotten into the game a bit, so you
> can expect a few misunderstandings and misrememberings. To help players get
> a handle on character creation, you might create a few sample NPCs - the
> might well be reusable as mentors, rivals and the like so the effort
> shouldn't be wasted.
A good plan; I am also leaning toward providing background information
> First thought; the more you tell them, the more of a handle they will have
> on what to expect, even if some of the things you tell them are actually red
> herrings. And in addition, they won't necessarily remember the precise
> details of whatever you tell them. This kind of material probably won't make
> proper 'sense' to them until they have gotten into the game a bit, so you
> can expect a few misunderstandings and misrememberings. To help players get
> a handle on character creation, you might create a few sample NPCs - the
> might well be reusable as mentors, rivals and the like so the effort
> shouldn't be wasted.
that is
explicitly unreliable; "there are stories of ...", which is all
hearsay.
> These days I always try to start by tagging things with a 'handle' that uses
> genre knowledge the players already have. For example, 'Start by thinking of
> the Conan movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but bear in mind that the
> greatest heroes in this world have the wire-fu skills of Crouching Tiger
> Hidden Dragon or Hero'. Something like that. 1-3 sentences that boil down
> the essence of the world to the 2-3 books/films/animes/comics/historical
> eras/earth cultures that it has most in common with. Then elaborate from
> that basic framework. I do advise making sure one of the references is to a
> film or even a TV series because that immediately introduces a rich - and,
> importantly, /shared/ - visual 'vocabulary'. You could then start describing
> a monster as 'like those gigantic war mammoths from Lord of the Rings, but
> scaled back down to the size of a normal elephant' - things like that.
>
> You say 'heroic fantasy' - so what's the intended tone? Lord of the Rings?
> Xena? Arthurian? Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? (I'm sure I spelled Fafhrd
> wrong...) The tone in particular is a very useful hook to give the players.
the
Argonauts, and similar Greek mythology. But that covers only a small
range of potential player characters; Greek heroes don't tend to be
mages, thieves and so on. And the world is rather different than
that;
the gods don't take such an active role in the stories.
This may be an indication that the campaign is not as well thought out
as I imagined.
> As far as giving the characters common purpose, it's a very good idea to
> require each character to have a connection with at least one other
> player-character, and/or a suitable NPC of your choosing. Giving the
> characters a pre-existing link saves them all having to meet in a tavern in
> the time-honoured manner. By plumbing them into the world before the game
> starts you speed things up in so many helpful ways, and give the players a
> framework to put their back stories on.
of
creating some sample NPCs (both adventurers and non-adventurers).
Thanks!
--
Magister
Simon Smith
Feb 15, 2013, 9:15:21 AM2/15/13
to
In message <1243da95-4877-4e35...@w7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
> > ... try to start by tagging things with a 'handle' that uses genre
> > You say 'heroic fantasy' - so what's the intended tone? Lord of the Rings?
> > Xena? Arthurian? Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? (I'm sure I spelled Fafhrd
> > wrong...) The tone in particular is a very useful hook to give the players.
>
> The closest I have come is along the lines of the Odyssey, Jason and
> the
> Argonauts, and similar Greek mythology. But that covers only a small
> range of potential player characters; Greek heroes don't tend to be
> mages, thieves and so on. And the world is rather different than
> that;
> the gods don't take such an active role in the stories.
>
> This may be an indication that the campaign is not as well thought out
> as I imagined.
What about the Sinbad movies? Rich visuals, a smattering of magic, less
proactive gods...
Magister <mr.ma...@zoho.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 11:03 am, Simon Smith <simon_smith_n...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <7c356e82-cc43-4a94...@googlegroups.com>
> > Magister <mr.magis...@zoho.com> wrote:
<snip>
> On Feb 12, 11:03 am, Simon Smith <simon_smith_n...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <7c356e82-cc43-4a94...@googlegroups.com>
> > Magister <mr.magis...@zoho.com> wrote:
> > ... try to start by tagging things with a 'handle' that uses genre
> > knowledge the players already have. For example, 'Start by thinking of
> > the Conan movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but bear in mind that
> > the greatest heroes in this world have the wire-fu skills of Crouching
> > Tiger Hidden Dragon or Hero'.
<snip>
> > the Conan movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, but bear in mind that
> > the greatest heroes in this world have the wire-fu skills of Crouching
> > Tiger Hidden Dragon or Hero'.
> > You say 'heroic fantasy' - so what's the intended tone? Lord of the Rings?
> > Xena? Arthurian? Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser? (I'm sure I spelled Fafhrd
> > wrong...) The tone in particular is a very useful hook to give the players.
>
> The closest I have come is along the lines of the Odyssey, Jason and
> the
> Argonauts, and similar Greek mythology. But that covers only a small
> range of potential player characters; Greek heroes don't tend to be
> mages, thieves and so on. And the world is rather different than
> that;
> the gods don't take such an active role in the stories.
>
> This may be an indication that the campaign is not as well thought out
> as I imagined.
proactive gods...
Magister
Feb 16, 2013, 11:37:45 AM2/16/13
to
On Feb 15, 8:15 am, Simon Smith <simon_smith_n...@zen.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <1243da95-4877-4e35-99c6-e415c9fd9...@w7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
converging to a
common theme--go places and meet unlikely challenges.
--
Magister
> In message <1243da95-4877-4e35-99c6-e415c9fd9...@w7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>
> Magister <mr.magis...@zoho.com> wrote:
> > The closest I have come is along the lines of the Odyssey, Jason and
> > the
> > Argonauts, and similar Greek mythology. But that covers only a small
> > range of potential player characters; Greek heroes don't tend to be
> > mages, thieves and so on. And the world is rather different than
> > that;
> > the gods don't take such an active role in the stories.
>
> > This may be an indication that the campaign is not as well thought out
> > as I imagined.
>
> What about the Sinbad movies? Rich visuals, a smattering of magic, less
> proactive gods...
OK; Sinbad movies, Thief of Bagdad (1940 version). Perhaps I am
> > The closest I have come is along the lines of the Odyssey, Jason and
> > the
> > Argonauts, and similar Greek mythology. But that covers only a small
> > range of potential player characters; Greek heroes don't tend to be
> > mages, thieves and so on. And the world is rather different than
> > that;
> > the gods don't take such an active role in the stories.
>
> > This may be an indication that the campaign is not as well thought out
> > as I imagined.
>
> What about the Sinbad movies? Rich visuals, a smattering of magic, less
> proactive gods...
converging to a
common theme--go places and meet unlikely challenges.
--
Magister
John Geoffrey
Feb 16, 2013, 11:20:46 AM2/16/13
to
> > First thought; the more you tell them, the more of a handle they
> > will have on what to expect, even if some of the things you tell
> > them are actually red herrings. And in addition, they won't
> > necessarily remember the precise details of whatever you tell them.
> > This kind of material probably won't make proper 'sense' to them
> > until they have gotten into the game a bit, so you can expect a few
> > misunderstandings and misrememberings. To help players get a handle
> > on character creation, you might create a few sample NPCs - the
> > might well be reusable as mentors, rivals and the like so the
> > effort shouldn't be wasted.
>
> A good plan; I am also leaning toward providing background information
> that is
> explicitly unreliable; "there are stories of ...", which is all
> hearsay.
with a lot of them that went completely in the wrong direction.
One thing I got from an issue of KotDT though is the rumour bucket: at
the start of a session or at appropriate times in session the players
can draw snippets from a rumour bucket (pot, hat, whatever) which
symbolizes information and rumours they received in between sessions or
during tavern crawls. The players can decide to share this information
or keep it for themselves.
I am trying to integrate this with my own worldbuilding: the players
gain rumours and factoids that can both tell them something about the
world they live in, or about adventure opportunities, or current
political situations. This information doesn't need to be right
("yeah, dragons have been extinct for hundreds of years"), but it gives
them an overview of what some people think.
--
John Geoffrey
Stuffed Crocodile Weblog http://gmkeros.wordpress.com
Ship and Fools Weblog http://shipandfools.wordpress.com
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